Slashdot Mirror
Legality of Renting Video Games?
Scott McChesney asks: "Where I live seems to be filled with Gamers but there are almost no places that rent console games. This got me thinking about opening one of my own but I have no clue about the licensing of such a thing. X-Box games all say on the back that buying the game does not give you the ability to rent it. I'm wondering what one has to do to be able to legally rent out video games?"
Ever been to Blockbuster? They have big
section of Sega, X-Box and Playstation games.
They even used to rent Gameboy catridges until
recently.
You have to strike deals with game producers and distributors, probably giving them some portion of the rental fees collected.
P.S. Blockbuster rents games, don't you have a blockbuster nearby?
I'm not sure how it works, but my guess would be that rental places (Blockbuster, Holywood, etc) pay a large fee to the video game makers (buy the games for $1000 each or something) and the maker gives them the right to rent it out. Going and buying a game at Toys 'R' Us and renting it out is illegal.
Comment forecast: Bits of genius surrounded by a sea of mediocrity.
If you own it, you can rent it. Isnt that how it works?
May he rest in peace.
-- 'The' Lord and Master Bitman On High, Master Of All
http://www.microcaptrader.com/featuredmicrocap_mov i.html
I admit to not reading this one, but it appears to be part of Sega's rental licensing. It may be a big pile of crap, though.
If you want to open a video game rental store, then Acts of Gord is required reading.
"Who is this Gord? Well, let me tell you about Gord."
-73, de n1ywb
www.n1ywb.com
I don't think I've ever seen a Video Store that didn't rent console games. Just about every town I've ever been in has a Blockbuster or some other chain-type video store, and even the local mom-n-pop rental places rent console games.
Just out of curiosity, are you in the US or not?
-Julius X
remove "-whatkindofspamdoyoutakemefor-" from email to send
17 USC 109(a) permits the owner of a copy of a copyrighted work to use or dispose of that copy as they like, including renting it. Subsection (b)(1)(A) makes an exception for computer software and sound recordings, but subsection (b)(1)(B)(ii) points out that (b)(1)(A) is not applicable to software used for a limited purpose computer designed for playing video games.
So, provided that the owner of the particular game cartridge or disc wants to rent it out, and provided that it is for a console and not a general purpose computer, you can just go ahead and do it.
-- This and all my posts are in the public domain. I am a lawyer. I am not your lawyer, and this is not legal advice.
If you bought it, you most certainly have the right to resell it, and I have trouble imagining how the law would view that as substantially different from renting it. So yes, I think you have the right to rent any copyrighted work you buy.
Of course I also think the DMCA and the CTEA are unconstitutional, defendants have a right to see evidence used against them, and presidents are elected by the general population. So clearly you should not be taking any legal advice from me.
unless of course the poster doesn't live in the US. I note that he had trouble finding a blockbuster to suit a gamer's needs; where does he live, Canada? ^_-
You can't walk past a Starbucks before coming across a Blockbuster in this great nation.
THIS THING CAN TURN ON A DIME, MACROSSZERO STYLE ALSO FUCK BETA, ~NYORON
...I mean really, the video rental places do it all the time, and I haven't seen the US Marshals at my local BlockBuster storming in when I walk out with some XBox game.
How many times does somebody have to point this out: asking for legal advice from random strangers is a very bad idea!
Funny thing was, cliff took the time to personally respond. I'd paste the message in this post, but I deleted it from the inbox.
Video game rental is a big issue for me because I'm in the process of opening up a gamehouse right now. Most game companies, with the exception of Bioware and Epic have just plain greedy licensing schemes that eat up any profit a game house owner might see.
Here are my thoughts on this issue, posted on the story about the price of commander keen. My argument against these licensing fee's go along the following..
Capcom, Atari, ect all provided more than just a cabinet when they sold you a game. You got a cabinet (physical security) Coin Mech (money validator) Access software (credits) Input Device (Joystick, buttons) Service contracts, monitor, and the game. Usually it was anywhere between a 50/50 to a 25/75 split for the quarters between the cabinet owner and the person that owned the property.
Now with a gamehouse, I'm providing those first 6 items, while the game company only provides the game. After looking at paying off employee's, loans, and a lease, these fee's are going to be eating up enough of my profits to where me, the owner is going to be lucky to break even at the end of the month. On top of all that I have a machine that needs to be replaced every 2-3 years to stay current with the CPL standard so I can host CPL qualifyers at my place.
Companies like Id, Activision, well, everyone except bioware/epic all expect a cut out of your gross profits. I could see them asking for a cut from the net, but the gross? That's just greed. No value added services, no special gamehouse edition, nothing.
I took some time out to write Mark Rein of Epic, to thank him for his companies license free policy. Following is his response.
Toqer,
We've had this policy for a long time. Basically if people play the game at your location they might be encouraged to buy their own copy for home and to tell their friends about it. We feel it's a win-win for both sides. The only think we ask in return is that you legally purchase, and keep on hand at all times, a copy of UT2003 for each machine the game is being played on.
As for images, you're welcome to use screen shots you create for the purpose of positive promotion of our game in your establishment.
Good luck!
Mark Rein
Epic Games Inc.
How fucking cool is that? Not only do they let you rent it as long as you buy a legal retail copy without fee's, they're more than happy to let me use their images/logo's screenshots for my centers motif.
Bottom line is, these licensing fee's suck. Ford doesn't charge me for making money on a truck after I purchase it, and neither should game companies. It's unfortunate that for some games (counterstrike) i'll have to pay these fee's if I want to carry the games that will draw the customers. What makes it even less fair, is I plan on playing by the rules, and there are many many other gamehouses that completely skip out on these fee's. I would love to challenge them in court, but as a startup, i'm in no position to do so.
No not really.
I want to preface this comment by saying that I am only going to talk about the facts of software sales today. I am not expressing an opinion on whether it is right or wrong, morally or otherwise, for software to be dealt with in this way.
When you buy software, you have a right of property only in the physical item(s) you have purchased. For example, the jewel case, the disc and the instruction manual.
You have also acquired a licence right to use the copyright, patent rights, etc. present in the software and the instruction manual. You have not acquired an assignment of those rights from their respective authors. You only have a limited permission.
Copyright is most relevant here, as with software, the law takes the view that use of software consititutes copying of software. In other words, when you use software you copy it in some form (installation to hard disk, instruction in RAM, etc.). I make no statement as to how technically sound that analysis is, but that's how "copyright" protects use of software.
So, unless your licence rights permit use of the software by other people who have rented the software from you, it is not permitted. I am not certain of the arranagements which Blockbuster (for example) have with distributors, but there must be blanket licensing/royalty sharing agreements in place.
Whilst it's offtopic, note also the use of engine management software in production automobiles. I've not yet heard of anyone having had to sign a licence regarding the use of that software before "buying" a car, but as the software becomes more and more intergral to the automobile industry (and presumably more transferable and less bespoke to any one make/model) how far off can that be?
The Comic Book Guy from the Simpson's is funny though, and I find Gord funny in the same way. He's a geek who's entire life seems to revolve around video games. When I read his site I imagined the Comic Book Guy in fact, and how he'd embellish his stories to prove his moral and physical superiority. It's sort of like any pissing match on a MUD or online. Everybody is an hybrid between Bruce Lee and Arnold Schwarzanegger. In real life most of these people probably can't be frowned at without wetting themselves.
Chris Kuivenhoven is a thief, beware
No, it is illegal for a contract to contradict the law. Since the law states that the right to rent console games is specifically given to the copy owner, this cannot be taken away by a contract.
However, there's nothing preventing the copyright owners from putting whatever stupid clauses they want on the shrink wrap to scare people into giving them more power.
Mod me down and I will become more powerful than you can possibly imagine!
I'll post this because it's not really legal advice but just stating a fact.
Much like music, the video game companies sell copies of the game (at extremely inflated prices) that you can rent out. They cost in the $600-$1000 range. That's how the company makes money on a game that can be played by so many people.
I remember when the movie 'High Fidelity' came out my girlfriend wanted it on tape ASAP, she ended up buying from a company that sells to the rental stores. The tape ran her $110, but she had it WEEKS before it was out en-masse, which is what she wanted.
I would assume that rental games are sold in the same manner, it costs a lot initially but then you don't have to calculate royalties. Everybody wins!
"Sometimes, I think Trent just needs a cup of hot chocolate and a blankie." -Tori Amos on Nine Inch Nails
Do you remember, long ago, when there was no Blockbuster? In my town, video stores were mostly mom and pop shops with names like 'Videoflicks' and 'At The Movies'. They'd have like 1 copy of a new release and you just had to be lucky to get it. If a movie was deemed particularly hot, they might buy two. They couldn't buy a whole boatload of them because the distributor charged a pretty steep price for new material.
I think at this stage of the game (mid-80s) it might have been legal to just buy copies from licensed distributors, set up shop and you were all set. The same goes for games. These same stores would rent NES games (!) too. Probably the same business model. Buy from distributor at inflated price, then rent away.
However, at some point along the way, the model changed. Blockbuster showed up. Mom and pop went out of business. But, it's important to note that Blockbuster was still following the same business plan. Only difference? A BB store could buy 10 copies of a new release instead of one.
Then, one day, a bright young plug at BB headquarters said, "Screw this. Instead of buying 10 copies from the distributor, why don't we go right to the studio/production company and say 'If you give us as many copies of your movie as we want for free, we'll give 20% of the profit we make on renting it out'?"
The studios loved it. They worked it into movie contacts (rental profit is now part of the total gross of a movie - Arnie get 2 points of all the rentals of T2 until the end of time).
And thus was born the BB "If we don't have a copy [of a new release], it's free!". Oh, they'll have a copy alright. They have 8000 copies of the new release titles in each store now.
Hrm. What does this have to do with the original post? Well, I'm guessing that if BB is right in with the film studios, they're probably right in with the game publishers too. So EA is getting .5% of the rental profit for all EA games rented from BB.
Comments?
This is what they typically do with video tapes (I don't know if it's being done with DVDs or games yet). They release it at a MUCH higher price, then drop the price down to a normal consumer price a few weeks later.
With this, they know only the video store (and hardcore fans) will pay the $100 rate. Video stores will pay because they want to have the *newest releases*. After a couple of weeks, they have captured the sales to most of the rental stores, so then they drop the price to sell to consumers.
What sucks is if you lose a video, you pay the $100 rate to have the store replace it, not the $20 rate which had come about before you even rented it...
Please consider making an automatic monthly recurring donation to the EFF
I am not a lawyer but my understanding when it comes to software it that you never purchase software, you only license software.
Purchase implies you can do whatever you want with it because you own it.
License implies that there are restrictions on the softwares usage.
...stupid. In fact, one of the stupidest articles ever posted on /. Obviously this person is full of it. What kind of town has the infrastructure to allow this buffoon to get on the Internet and yet he can't rent a console game? What year is this? Fifteen years ago I used to rent Nintendo games at the grocery store. BTW, this guy "thinking" of opening a video store is a lot a UN proposal. Think about it.
You do not license things that you buy. You own them. Copyright law is the only thing that dictates what things you're not allowed to do with something you own.
If you obtain the game by a means other than buying it (e.g. you contact the publisher and work out a licensing agreement) then other rules can go into effect, but there is little incentive for most people to bother doing that.
My mother worked in a small video rental shop and it was inhumane how much they had to pay for movies so they could rent them, top releases were upwards of $600 USD. Some B movies were "cheap" and only $50USD but at those prices you had to rent the movie ALOT to get your money back.
Places like Blockbuster and Rogers video pay less since they buy 1000s of copies of each movie and would get price breaks due to the large quantities involved.
Gibble: Descriptive of an emotional state in which one's mind is scrabbling for some purchase on reality
You're right about tapes. They do cost much more than the retail tapes, but you can buy them with different kind of plans. Some plans are profit sharing, others are time lease, used, etc.
It just depends on how you buy the tape and from what outlet. We got most of ours from Waxworks, but towards the end of my stay there Warner Bros stopped selling their tapes through second parties. By doing this not only did they get a bigger piece of the pie, but could bring a heap of purchasing options to the table that would have been a pain for Waxworks.
Games and DVDs are not though. Games are bought below retail as well as DVDs. Thats why DVDs have been embraced pretty well by the rental industry. The turn around on a dvd is much faster than a non-sell through tape. Three or four rentals and you slap a Previously viewed DVD sticker on it and sell it for $10. Ditto with Games
I hope you die painfully and alone.
We were franchise as well. And if the owner noticed a game had exploded in popularity unexpectedly like PSX "Driver" he would go pick up four or five copies for the weekend rush.
I hope you die painfully and alone.
How'sabout this:
You sell a used game at full-price. This is a lot easier to defend in court if it ever comes to that.
Also do this:
Buy games from customers at less-than-full price.
Sale price minus Buy price equals rental price.
It's like renting out a game with some extra assurance that they'll bring it back.
If they dont bring it back, or damage the disc, or anything else that rentals usually have to worry about, you've got the money for a replacement.
Obvious problems, yes. I'm sure there are ways to get around it. For example, a "payment plan" which ammounts to a flat down payment [rental charge] followed by weekly/daily installments [late fees]
-- 'The' Lord and Master Bitman On High, Master Of All
What kind of town has that sort of infrastructure? One with phone lines.
OMG! Wau!
I don't know if this is a common practice everywhere but rental video's always seem to be better quality. Some video's you buy in a store are only good for a few viewings without significant quality degradation. So better quality tape might be some of the price difference. Can anyone confirm this ?
beauty is only a light switch away
(2) Sponsor, or contribute to, the development of open source games.
The difference between the two with play the most significant role in the global economy in the next ten years.
Microsoft is well on its way to ensuring that no one ever purchases their software again and will continue to pressure for legislation that erodes consumers rights of fair use to ensure an annual revenue stream
Read NO LOGO and you'll get a good idea were some of the big guns of consumerism are heading. Everything is a monthly payment... sure makes that global food and water credit easier to establish!
Peace, Love and Power to the People... dudes!
Gamers may prefer to buy a new game or second hand...but not to rent
Having worked at Lackluster for a few years....
No the tapes they get are exactly the same as the ones that end up retail.
All we do is unbox the movies, put them in the plastic rental cases with the printed slip covers.
Then when they get sold as "previously viewed" we re-box them in the retail packaging.
Well I've wrestled with reality for thirty five years doctor, and I'm happy to say I finally won out over it.
Gord: Silly camper everyone knows that the AWP has horrible accuracy when not crouching.
(Gord looks up and sees certain doom)
Gord: Oh, I've wasted my life.
Note the above is humor, and not any indication I wish ill upon the person who writes the Acts of Gord.
Well I've wrestled with reality for thirty five years doctor, and I'm happy to say I finally won out over it.