Slashdot Mirror
Andalucia Adopts Free Software
InodoroPereyra writes "Browsing Linux Today I found a link to an
HispaLiNUX
article stating that
Andalucia goes OpenSource. More specifically,
"All public educational centre necessities are intended to be fulfilled, first of all, with Free Software [...] It is compulsory to all hardware acquired by official educational centres to be fully compatible with Free Software operating systems. Furthermore, it must be preinstalled in all new bought computers".
Andalucia is a region located to the South of Spain, with about 7.5 million inhabitants. This is an important follow-up to the many stories on
Linux in Extremadura."
Andalucia? Extremadura?
Sorry, but this needs to go much further.
What about Higgletypigglety and Ishkabibble? Ringolevio might get on board, but I think Jaberwocky will be the hold-out.
Best Windows Freeware
Small nations/language groups may indeed follow suit. I remember when Microsoft refused to make an Icelandic version of Windows some years ago. Reason? Too few users... Well, there are actually 250,000 icelanders, like a larger city block. Which makes me think of my 25 minute old Mandrake 9.1 installation. It boasts support for 60 languages, including Icelandic.
Anyway, ensuring that all computer and components are compatible with open source solutions maybe not ensures that they will not use windows, but at least that they can choose now or after without being forced to use one solution over another because winmodems, winprinters, and other hardware that depends on windows to work.
Sounds like they want to encourage Open Source software to encourage the local economy. Makes sense, they won't have to send X-dollars per computer to MS or IBM or SUN or Apple and that money can stay in the local economy. Before someone says, "but what about the cost of training?" The money spent on the computer training for people to use OSS will also stay in the local economy and is actually a direct expendature on educating the local work force.
Galium Arsenide is the material of the future, and always will be.
The question is, is the REQUIREMENT that all systems contain Free (they didn't say OPEN, just FREE, I don't know if this is a translation thing, but there is an important distinction) software good or not. Are they limiting themselves just as they would be if they declared "all systems must have Microsoft software". What if it turns out that MacOS actually suits their needs the best? (ok, you can stop laughing now)
The article is light on background and I don't read Spanish, so I don't know what precipitated this decision (purely financial, political (aka Anti-Microsoft), technical, or whatever). So it's hard to tell just how well thought out this is.
"Grandpa, could you read it again?"
Manipulate the moderator system! Mod someone as "overrated" today.
I am un chien Andalucia.
Although rather low-profile on the global scale I think this I great. I would like to see a lot more of this happening in the United States and in South Korea (among other countries). I find it very disheartening than so many people I know have never heard of GNU-Linux/Free Software and never seen a non-Microsoft operating system on a personal computer. (Besides Macs of course) The school districts are by far the most important place to start. If kids know there is something out there besides Windows and MS Office they may be more inclined to use it at home or consider it at their place of work. Andalucia is a step in the right direction.
In case anyone is in the Worcester, MA USA area tonight, Maddog is giving a talk about just this kind of thing.
Guest Speaker
Jon 'maddog' Hall
Linux in Emerging Economies
Wednesday
March 26th, 2003
Kinnicutt Hall - WPI Campus
(Salisbury Labs 115
aka the usual place)
Worcester, MA USA
7:00 PM
More info at: http://www.wlug.org/
Picture Rocks, Pennsylvania, discovers Windows and the wonders of Graphical User Interfaces, or Gooeys, as they are commonly referred to. Details at 11.
Tired of being "punished" by the Slashdot $rtbl since 2002. I'm now over at http://soylentnews.org/ .
All the arguments about TCO and which system is cheaper in the long run depend a lot on training pr retraining of staff and such. But if kids grow up on OSS and everyone is not stuck with the idea that Windows is your computer, then it makes a whole hell of a lot of sense to use GNU/Linux (or some other *NIX that can be made user friendly). Because then the main argument is between $0 - GNU/Linux or $>0 - Windows. :)
Doesn't seem like a very hard choice.
This is left as an exercise for the reader.
Is this the "LookWhatOtherNoNamePlaceUsesLinux.com" website, or Slashdot? I mean really. Im glad people are using Linux, and OS/2, and OSX, and anything else, but uh... so one place no ones ever heard of adopts Linux as their OS of choice today and Slashdot posts about it? I wonder how many people setup a new environment based on Windows today? Or OSX? or IRIX, or Solaris? Post some of the places on that.
I'm Rick James with mod points biatch!
I hope the guy who modded the parent down isn't in a management position, because anyone who is opposed to using the right tool for the job is doomed to lead his/her company into bankruptcy.
"Ask not what your country can do for you." --John F. Kennedy
Because the world is actually made by lots of two-bit no-name regions.
http://ebgp.net/ccc/
But unfortunatelly he will be hired by another company in higher postion. And this is one of the reasons that telecom an it are doing so "well".
http://ebgp.net/ccc/
Today Andalucia, tomorrow Catalonia!
If your children ever found out how lame you are, they'd murder you in your sleep
Relax said the nightman
We are programed to recieve
You can check out any time you like
But you can never leave
"...I've just finished reading 1984. Go figure."
Whatever else they may be, in this day and age, I can't knock anyone who reads something worthwhile.
Furthermore, it must be preinstalled in all new bought computers
Kinda limiting their hardware choices, aren't they?
Unfortunately if you think short-term, you're right. Though I personally have a problem with other companies dictating what software I must use. And for what? to have some pictures move around on the screen? Tell me that can't be standardized with a straight face.
This type of change (we WON'T use MS) just forces the ball to move the other way. Now I can say, for example, YOU must use OpenOffice (if MS Office doesn't open filetype X). The only issue that is that you have to download it. No cost to you.
That's what standards are for in the first place. Avoiding unnecessary 'bulge'. Not one company buying products just to view data from another.
"I can't give you a brain, so I'll give you a diploma" - The Great Oz (blatently stolen sig)
It never ceases to amaze me that people forget the differences between what is "Open Source" and what is "Free Software".
f reedom.html" for details on the difference between the two.
If you say "Open Source", and license your software with the GPL, then you are still doing Free Software, just without the emotional baggage.
The end result is the same, but your motives are questionable because your philosophical commitment level is low.
If you say "Free Software", well, you are letting everyone know where you stand and what your goals are. There can be no doubt. See "http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/free-software-for-
And for the record, the referenced article states "Free Software" 7 times, and never mentions "Open Source" even once. Their goals are *definitely* not in doubt. I consider this to be a very good thing.
"To make a mistake is only human; to persist in a mistake is idiotic." Cicero
"Un Chien Andalucia", I was initially referring to the Pixies song Debaser, where the lyric is the mixed language "I am un chien Andalucia".
Let me offer another perspective:
When I use LaTeX for my documentation and people everywhere cannot make sense of it, I send them pdf files (or well formatted html files, since LaTeX2HTML does a very good job).
Likewise, when people don't want others to muck around with their documents, they send them in pdf , often with an additional Acrobat license. They sometimes also send bad html from MS Word.
Interchange of the documents will only get better with time. I can safely venture and say openoffice does a better job than, say MSWord 95. Soon it will be MSWord 97, and 2000.
S
"More specifically, "All public educational centre..."
Is he trying to spell sentry?
What matters is not what place adopts Linux, but because it is the (small) beginning that might convince others.
Up to now many organizations (mainly public/state such as communities, regions, provinces) have been thinking aloud on switching to Linux (on the desktop), but until now it seems like noone dared to make the jump.
It is not for nothing that MSFT is fighting every 'minor defection' vigorously (offering huge discounts etc first and sometimes starting the threaten if that doesn't help). After the first success story provides proof that it is possible and saves loads of money, creates independance and freedom, the facade that MSFT keeps up will crumble and many will follow.
Therefore, the first time a real largish organization, even if it is in some insignificant region (in your eyes) that makes the switch and does not have itself bribed or bullied, is very important news.
Being a "yankee" I can speak normal English, but having moved to TN I can see a desperate need for a Southern translation of Linux or Winshit.
Basically, just use "hallfar" instead of "error", "gimme sum dam dip" instead of "insert disc 1," and so forth. I'd translate it myself, but a true linguist would be needed for a proper translation.
You can't judge a book by the way it wears its hair.
Just for the benefit of all our non spanish-speaking readers, "Inodoro" means "toilet".
This EducationMinute 2.0 brought to you by the Organization For The Advancement Of Free As In Peseta Software Across The World And Other Obscure Places That Nobody Has Ever Heard About.
Also there are subsidizing M$, if you bought a computer in Andalucia (Spain), u can get 350 Euros from the regional governement, and 750 Euros for little corporations (The only requeriment is to live here and 1 computer per person...), but the law say ---> "The computer must have Windows Xp....." Ooopss....
On first view of the headline I thought that my hometown local gov't in Andalusia, Alabama had adopted open source.
...
I was about to get very happy...
Oh well
So far as I read it, they aren't forcing the use of OS, they're requiring that every PC be capable of running a free OS, like linux or whatever.
A great deal of them will indeed run Windows, because that's a skill that gets you a job. Outside of the IT world, noone is impressed by 'linux' on a resume.
All their doing is limiting their hardware choices.
Personally I prefer to use only hardware that works with linux, even though I dont use it on the desktop. It's generally a sign that the hardware has been around for a few years, and as a rule of thumb, by the time linux support exists, windows support is rock solid. Video cards notwithstanding.
I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
An extremely large European region gets mentioned but because the lack of geographic education is rampant on Slashdot people laugh at this "non-news", some small hickville school in the US adopts free software and everyone raves about it.
Laptop Reviews
and lets not forget aluminIum... which was also the accepted spelling in the U.S. until 1925, at which time the American Chemical Society officially decided to use the name aluminum thereafter in their publications, for no reason at all... hmm, america are good at that.
I've spent the last two years being subjected to biased slashdot propaganda. I couldn't hack into a properly configured windows system if my life depended on it
Absolutely right. Microsoft's latest patches are unbeatable. If you can't boot the OS, ain't nobody gonna crack the box.
World Domination
It's only a matter of time Windows Trolls!!!!
The more extreme your responses here
The more we know we're hurting you plenty LOL !!!
FREE ALWAYS WINS
JUST ASK NETSCAPE......
You will no doubt notice that the article contains an explicit description of where and what "Andalucia" is (a region in Spain).
If the target audience for the article - Spanish citizens! - needs education of that location, why on earth are you insulting Slashdot readers education level?
Perhaps the article submitter could have taken the time to mention that it was a huge chunk of spain.
GPL'd web-based tradewars themed space game
You yourself are a 'customer' too many times probably. You shouldn't be "unhappy" either when you get crappy documents that contain a bunch of gibberish when you open them in OpenOffice.org. You, as a customer, should demand open formats.
I did this at my college. They always sent out Excel-files when they wanted to distribute timetables to students and Word documents for newsletters and the like. Those files opened quite nicely (most of the time), but still I demanded an open format. I kept hammering the IS department, and now they publish the timetables in HTML too. Other documents come as plain text and occasionally a PDF (which is an open standard, just controlled by Adobe).
Learn from the mistakes of others. There isn't enough time to make them all yourself.
That posting really clashes with the article.
'cause it means installing hundreds of computers at every secondary school. (At least, that's the way the HispaLinux folks did it Extremadura). And when you save literally hundreds of thousands of bucks, it's indeed a deal.
Add that to the independence from a software company.
Add that to the fact that you can develop your own software to improve the well-being of your country. (As the opposite to "let's buy software from USA and let's give 'em all our money). It employees your own people, and keeps money in the same country.
Now, has a "two-bit no-name region" (with big incomes from tourists from USA, BTW) a reason??
"I've spent the last two years being subjected to biased slashdot propaganda. I couldn't hack into a properly configured windows system if my life depended on it."
Just because YOU can't doesn't mean others can't. Yes, getting a remote shell on Win2K is very difficult but using a documented exploit to run remote code is just a matter of following instructions.
Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around the laws-Plato
Inodoro pereyra, el renegau
Also, he is from Argentina, not Spain.
Kilroy was here!
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Ha... ha... nice troll! Even the fack that you can not speak English worth a crap didn't stop you from releasing that troll into the rest of the world. You my friend are my hero! MORON!!! No wonder if the rest of Spanish people are like you, the Basques want to get the hell out of your country...
Navarra forever! Biatch!!!!!!
Moron !
Andalucia is a part of Spain.
Yes, Morón is in Andalucia.
__
Men with no respect for life must never be allowed to control the ultimate instruments of death.
GW Bu
Would say "No more Win-dows bombs in An-da-lu-cia!"
the major advances in civilization are processes which all but wreck the societies in which they occur - A.N. White
Gentleman, here are the three fundamental laws of turmoildynamics in the Computer Industries.
The Zeroth Law
The heated discussions and debates in the computer industry will always move from a cold topic area towards a hot topic area.
The First Law of turmoildynamics: aka the Moore's Law
The number of transistors per integrated circuit at the most economical price will double every 18 months.
The Second Law of turmoildynamics: aka the Microsoft's Law
The retail price of a standard Microsoft package (like Microsoft Office) will double every 60 months.
The Third Law of turmoildynamics: aka the Open Source's Law
The amount penetration of GPL open source programs in the commercial business environment will double every 30 months.
Well, the Spanish way of government is really out-of-date. Damn!
... , but you better be going.
The Autonomous Communities are just a joke. Central government has a lot of power, yeah that's it, it's too powerful. They Autonomous Communities are yelling "we need a Federal Republic system" Don't you hear it? - Say yes to States, no to "Autonomous Communities")!
King? What the hell does a king in a country in the 21th century? Guess it. You're right. Nothing. There is no need for king in a democratic system, indeed he's earning money the easy-way- doing nothing. In democracy all people are equal. In a monarchy all people are equal except the king and his "real" family. All the speeches of the king are written by other people and the king has no responsability (he's above everything including the law) in what he says and reads (in 99% cases he doesn't speak, just read texts written by other "common" people). Sorry, your majesty, your highness,
In 1936 there was a referendum asking the Spanish citizens if they really wanted a king, and the majority of people say no to the king, yes to the Republic, so Spain became a Republic. Years later a f*cking dictator (Franco) re-established the monarchy in Spain. From that date until today, Juan Carlos is the king and owns the "kingdom" of Spain. I have to say that the king Juan Carlos is one of the richest men in Europe thanks to Franco. I have to note that thanks to Hitler and Mussolini Franco won the civil war.
Besides he has a lot of property and budget from the State for him (all Spanish people is paying taxes to support the "Familia Real"), under the dictatorship government, Franco gave to the king lots of things that they were owned by "regular" Spanish people that didn't think the same way as Franco. The king Juan Carlos is a sign of backwardness and is the shadow of the past. In a few years, won't exist monarchy countries, hopefully.
Democracy and a Federal Republic way of government is what many countries really need.
n0dez
PS: If you want to contact me, you can do it at the following address:
It's "Catalonia" in English. Your English blah blah.
__
Men with no respect for life must never be allowed to control the ultimate instruments of death.
GW Bu
...I submitted a story of the Netherlands converting to Linux (inhab. 16 million) and it was ignored. All finely hand-translated as well. N00bs!
I have just written an article about the way of government that many countries need such as Spain.
Please feel free to send me any comments. (My address is at the end of this post)
n0dez
Yeah, you're right. I have a friend who uses OSes in English instead of Spanish just because many things aren't translated the proper way.
...
One more thing, hehe,
I have just written an article about the way of government that many countries need such as Spain.
Please feel free to send me any comments. (My address is at the end of this post).Thankz
n0dez
and even every flavour of Yugoslavian
I can't think there would be many basque people and I never understood why it seemed necessary to send the install disks for foreign language to english speaking only offices. I learnt a lot about languages of the world and where Microsoft thought there were computers from those "microsft select" disks and the MSDN disks. And that was in 1996 or earlier. I can understand why they didn't make one in Pitjanjatjarra - there were hardly any computers out there let alone people who could translate.
-- it must be true, it's on the internet.
Sure I only speak English. (I pretend I can speak Spanish, but I'm not fooling myself, much less anyone who knows spanish.) I still installed all the lanuages translations KDE has on my computer. I have friends who speak other languages. They like the ability set the computer in their languages.
Only about 5 people have used my computer in the last 4 years, but one of them used a language other than english. It makes it worth it, and cost little disk space in todays world.
I keep hoping the cute girl from Sweden will come back and be impressed after using my comptuer. (It won't happen, but If I ever meet anouther girl...)
Andalucia is the Spain you think of when you think of Spain. Northern Spain, where some of my family is from is very different. The Spanish bullfights, for example, are very Andalucian.
The moorish influence is most prominent from the people to the architecture.
Anyways, how about the whole siesta thing? Sounds like a nice policy to adopt here, stateside.
--Joey
I wonder if they will use or suport the "Linex" Linux distribution, based on Debian and developed in Extremadura with funding by the Comunidad Autonoma government.
Spain has a sort of federal government structure. Andalucia is next to Extremadura, and both "Comunidades Autonomas" (equivalent to state governments) have a parlament with majority of the same party, that is the oposition to Mr.Aznar, the Spanish president.
How long will it take for the rest of Spanish public institutions to support open source software ? Or will they follow the path of Catalunya government, this is, cooperate with Microsoft ?
Actually Andalucia is not so small as you might think. Spain is one of the major economies of the world, its just that many people from the U.S. are blind to anyone below position number 1.
In fact, articles like this show how far behind the U.S. is in terms of open source/free software and how forward thinking countries will someday dominate the silly hicks in the U.S. Who prefer their comfortable monopolies.
On a more related note, I have a cousin-in-law who works for the Junta de Andalucia (Andalucian government) in a school and they are quite advanced in the way they handle the education system here, with many programs for school management given to them by the government and data exchange going on via the Internet.
The use of Linux on their systems will just help the standardization of school systems and also give the developers a standard platform to develop future applications as well as save important Euros for spending on things that matter like educating the students.
cp -R
Exhibiting your ignorance on a public forum is not usually a good idea.
It is virtually impossible to find a Spaniard who doesn't know what and where exactly Andalucia is. It would be as extremely rare as, for example, finding a British who doesn't know about Wales or Scotland. Obviously, mentioning that in the article wasn't intended for the Spanish audience.
Not really. Two years ago we started to use electricity. They say that in just 50 years we will have computers and Internet. Sorry, I will continue later with this post... I have to go down to the river for some water.