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Sun Drops Linux Distro
The Wireless Guy writes "eWeek is reporting that Sun has decided to stop offering a Linux distribution. From the story: "Yes, this is a change in strategy. Our Sun Linux distribution is essentially Red Hat Linux with a few minor tweaks," John Loiacono, vice president of Sun's operating platforms group"... so, is this good news for Red Hat?" They were rethinking it, and I guess they've had a good long thunk.
This is only further proof that Sun plans on dropping out of the entry level server market and sticking with their old method of selling enterprise level systems with a more robust and proven operating system, Solaris. Too much competition exists on the Linux side of things to make enough money, with Dell, IBM, HP, and others fighting it out.
Watch for Sun phasing out the blade-style systems next.
Have you been stalked by Seth today?
Is Red Hat now considered a bigger player than Sun?
First this and now this! When will they ever stop?
Note to self: get smarter troll to guard door.
i'm glad. i don't like rpm based distributions. i've had so many headaches due to rpm.... grrr.... what we need is more source based distros like gentoo. then we'll be talking.
I write code.
It didn't make any sense to produce a product (for free) that would directly compete (in some circumstances) with a product that they produce for sale (Solaris/SunOS).
It would be nice if Sun (and IBM et al) started contributing to an OS with real promise, like one of the BSDs. Not that Linux isn't promising, I just think that BSD's long-term future is brighter...
Imagine if one of the BSD's had Linux's hype behind it, but with *BSD's existing code-review and QA systems - if they could manage the influx of interest, I think we would end up with a much nicer product.
Why do they want to get their own font handler in xfree86? They have their own commercial implementation for solaris right? They want linux/bsd users to wait for their favorite toolkits to bundle in support of this new standard? I know Sun has interest in GNOME, but still GNOME is based on gtk which is based on pango, and pango+xft+fontconfig does the same thing as their own (not-yet working) design (can't remember the name).
Slashdot: Where people pretend to be twice as smart as they really are by behaving like children.
I know for a fact that businesses told Sun they could not envisage using their offerings - it just didn't get you anything you couldn't get elsewhere better and cheaper...
and if they won't die they will announce to fire half of their employees within a year. they just don't get it. the ceo keeps complaining about microsoft, yet sun's is in a completely different ball park. their ultimate enemy is linux and their own processor architecture. they need to make a transition towards a service oriented company - with less dependency on their own technology. like hp does. like ibm does. they don't care what they sell, but they do. goodby sun ! (i liked them A LOT back then when they did workstations).
With a growth-rate like this there'll be four distros per human being in 25 years. (roughly 24'000'000'000)
GAAH! MY PRINTER IS ON FIRE!!! PUT IT OUT! PUT IT OUT!
This can only be good news. Instead of supporting one branded distribution, they'll be supporting multiple existing ones.
A company decided to stop offering for free software that competes with one of its most expensive products. Nothing to see here. Move along.
They are planning on making money on support so this really doesn't change things much in the big picture.
All the best,
--Bob
what about the Sun's Linux Desktop "madhatter". what happened to that?
Consensus is good, but informed dictatorship is better
They done wrote their own Unix(tm)! I mean that "GUI" thing they have blows goats but Solaris is pretty good. We still have our cvs repository here running on a 150 mhz (or something) sun box.
Has anyone ever used Sun's distro? What 'was' it like?
True genius is grasping a situation like a peice of fruit, and peircing it just right so that it drains dry.
See, that's the thing though, they're not,as it states in the beginning of the article...
"our customers told us they didn't want a standard distribution that had some tweaks, so I decided to fix the problem by simply supporting between two and four standard Linux distributions, though I have not as yet decided which these will be."
So basically, they're going to stop doing the only thing that IBM wasn't doing: namely, releasing their own distro...such as it was anyway. If anything, this brings them more into competition with IBM. That should be fun for them.
-Looking for a job as a materials chemist or multivariat
They seem to have a multipersonality disorder. First they claim solarisx86 is the answer, then they come out with AMD powered blades and claim solarisx86 is dead and cancels it, then they bundle sun linux for their amd blades, then they decide to resurect solarisx86 after all the vendors left and use it in conjection with linux, now they are deciding to cancel linux again?, or maybe do an all linux with redhat.
Redhat has stated publically they do not like Sun marketing Solarisx86 and they consider it a competitor. My guess is redhat is willing to do a port if Sun cancels solarisx86 and eventually moved to redhat linux for their sparc machines.
Why can't sun just keep a direction or any direction for that matter? It makes them look bad not to mention if I was an IT manager I would feel real uncomfortable purchasing a sun solution. How do I know what I pick today will be supported by sun tommorow?
Since they are outsourcing all their programmers for minimal wage in India, perhaps the marketing and sales team should be outsourced as well. There expensive American counterparts are not real effective.
http://saveie6.com/
Basically this is the scenario they must have tired of:
Employee: Yay! We've got our low-end-Sun-box-with-Sun-Linux! Time to put it to use!
Manager: But all our software was for Red Hat!!! What good is that...
Employee: *calls Sun* We need Red Hat Linux supported on our box so we can run our software.
Sun: We only support Sun Linux.
Employee: But we don't have any good apps for Sun Linux!
Sun: Well... just run your Red Hat apps on Sun Linux. It'll work.
Employee: That's can't possibly work! Our software says "Operates with Red Hat Linux" on the box!
Sun: Trust me, it'll work....
Employee: You're insane! My MSCE certificate taught me one thing (and only one thing), and that's every minor revision of every OS is inherently incompatible! I'm buying Dell...
So instead of confusing people needlessly, they just give people Red Hat. People know what Red Hat is. Who the hell ever heard of Sun Linux?
The only great value they provide to the market now is big Unix boxen for running large databases. Sun servers are non existant in the low-end, and Linux and Windows will continue to eat up the mid-range server markets for years to come. The high-end backend database servers for running big databases where you need 64 bit computing are the only areas where Linux and Windows have still to hit. Eventually however Intel 64 bit computing will catch up. Then the only thing left will be the super high-end, where mainframes still rule. And that market is much too small to support a company as big as Sun currently is.
Geez.. Sun changes its mind more often than my last 3 girlfriends combined. WTF??
I left me zipper undone.
There's nothing Intelligent about Intelligent Design.
(Please excuse my AC post.)
I attended a 2-day NDA meeting with Sun in California some months ago ... several of the "top brass" were there to give us warm fuzzies about Sun's direction. We're a huge Solaris shop, and Sun hosts these meetings with their large clients from time to time. (Scott also shows up at some of them, but not at ours.) I asked about Linux and if they were going to embrace the Linux platform for "edge of network" applications, or for web servers (we have a lot of Linux web servers here.) The next day, they arranged a long meeting with me and their Linux guy.
The Linux meeting was to tell me about the new Linux offering they were weeks away from announcing. That's the idea they just killed. The idea was that Sun would start out by basing their Linux distro on RedHat, then would immediately fork the distro to create a specific Linux for their "PC blade" hardware platform. Really, they said the goal was to use Linux to push the PC blades. And they thought people would jump on this bandwagon.
Personally, I thought that a Linux distro that used the Solaris package manager, and had a layout that was close to how Solaris is set up, and was managed the same way you managed a Solaris box, might be a cool thing for shops that ran a lot of Solaris but not a lot of Linux. Your Solaris admins could pick up this new Linux thing in a hurry, since it looked just like their other Solaris boxes. And you could run it very cheaply on the new "blades". But that wasn't where Sun wanted to go, and they said that to me very plainly.
So what I learned in that long meeting with Sun is that Sun has no plan for Linux. They honestly don't know what to do with it. I'm frankly a little surprised that StarOffice still supports Linux, but I guess since all the SO work is done in Germany by the StarDivision/Sun group, maybe that's why StarOffice still supports Linux.
On the PC platform, it's amazing that Sun actually recommends WINDOWS rather than a UNIX OS (like Linux.) They've given up on the PC platform - they let Microsoft own the entry-level systems.
Ah well.
Apparently Sun has huge cash reserves but they can't seem to make up their minds on what to do about Open Source grabbing a chunk of their pie. The way I could see it they could:
1. keep on selling high end Unix for the datacenter and pray Windows Server 2003 doesn't make huge inroads and that Linux doesn't catch up too fast.
2. sell their own Linux distro for use on low end machines to emphasize that Solaris is the best for huge servers.
3. (my own suggestion) Either release the source code for Solaris or help the Linux kernel developers out w/ Sun's own coders and focus more on selling Linux and Unix services like IBM.
Before I get flamed for mentioning Windows Server 2003, remember eBay seems to make Windows 2000 work for them. Prbably no the best ROI however. Anyway, Sun's leadership seems confused right now.
This guy is way out there
Way to promote the value.
The first issue is time. It takes time to put out a custom distribution and/or packages. Unless one is adding an appropriate amount of added value, the effort is questionable. A while back, I was on an internal security team for a major corporation. We had a security software product that we had licensed with access to its source code. We did not review this code, but we did compile it ourselves for a couple of platforms and create official corporate packages for internal use. It then became apparent that the default binary packages direct from the vendor were created using the same options. Without regular code review - what justified the additional time and effort? There was no acceptable answer - we began deploying vendor binary packages.
It makes sense for Sun to drop the customized distribution approach. After all, are they really bringing anything new to the environment that's not already being covered by existing Linux vendors? Working with those vendors to ensure that your product will work with theirs seems to be a much more sensible, and lest time-costly, approach. Especially when vendors like Red Hat are pushing towards Enterprise solutions.
Which leads in to the next point. From the article:
Money. The price of Linux is an interesting point. The no-cost aspects of a Linux distribution is nothing to toss aside too lightly. A lack of licensing fees and tracking headaches makes building a development box based on Linux that much easier. Price is very important to small and mid-sized businesses.
But even though licensing fees have come under increased scrutiny by corporate interests who wish to limit their spending in the current economy, its a relatively minor point. These environments are more than capable of handling licensing fees (although license tracking is still an issue). So in this regard, free in the sense of no-cost has never been an issue.
It might be worth noting that even with Red Hat's Advanced Server offering is still about service. Most of what makes up this new product is still available for free in source code form. One could compile one's own binaries and build one's own Advanced Server-like environment. Buying a license from Red Hat gets you access to their binaries - it is essentially buying a service. Which is a real time-saver whether you're in charge of a corporate IT infrastructure or need a friendly platform to help sell hardware.
Guys,
The only company that does more waffling than you do is IHOP! (Intl House Of Pancakes)
If it weren't for the cool stuff you've done for the community, (Open Office, anybody?) I'd think you were a bunch of clueless morons.
Well, I still think you're a bunch of clueless morons that from time to time do something really, really cool.
Come on, guys! I'm trying to root for you, here!
-Ben
I have no problem with your religion until you decide it's reason to deprive others of the truth.
I work for one of the groups specifically involved in this ...
/. article are a bit misleading (IMO):
:)
...
... in other words, the installer whatever distributions Sun chooses to ship will be the same installer that you get when downloading that distro from it's main website, and the graphics you see during install, etc will be the same as well. We are continuing to layer above and beyond that with things like Sun ONE, etc. ...
...
To be clear, since the title of the original article and this
Sun will:
* Continue to offer Linux as an offering on x86-based servers. These offerings will come in the form of standard distributions that everyone today knows and loves.
* Continue to develop x86 Linux hardware offerings. Currently stocked by the LX50 (released last year) and the Cobalt appliances (where I originally came from). Coming up there are a number of things due out by the end of the year. I'm not going to cover them now so that I can keep my job
* Continue to add software value on top of the Linux distribution by making various Sun softwares (like Star Office, Sun ONE, Java, etc) run ever better on the Linux platforms.
The only thing that Sun is not continuing is the customized Sun Linux 5.0 line. Anyone who took a close look at SL5 knows that it is virtually identical to Red Hat Linux 7.2 (in fact, you can even use Red Hat Network or Ximian Red Carpet to update with RH72 patches, though at that point it's not considered SL5 by Sun).
The only differences from RH72 were a modified installer (and some might say broken, since it had problems with Kickstarting), some custom Sun labelling, and value-added software (like the Sun Streaming server).
What is being "killed" is the modification of the base distribution
In other words, not much has changed except now Sun does not have to go and recertify drivers (that already worked perfectly well) or try to explain why Sun Linux is NOT a proprietary closed Linux (which many people seemed to think even though it was not so). Now we can concentrate on providing software value add above the base distros, which are already maturing quite well on their own.
This doesn't mean Sun has abandoned Linux or Open Source. The worst it means is that when a Sun engineer creates a patch (for example, on the kernel) that it has to be submitted either to the distro parent and/or the maintainer of that software before it will make it into the core of a Sun Linux product offering. That should be considered a good thing by most people in the community, as it further confirms that Sun is contributing and not closing off any open code.
It is more productive to voice thoughtful opinions (reply) than to judge (moderate) others.
So people who order Sun (or is it Sun Cobalt?) boxes with Red Hat preinstalled will probably get exactly the same software that the would have had with Sun Linux -- tweaks and all. The only difference will be the brand.
Please see:
http://www.sunsource.net/
Before saying how little commitment Sun has to Open Source.
The fact that they (ok, "we") are going to be offering -multiple- Linux distributions coming soon notwisthstanding, all you have to do is look at how much of Solaris already uses Open Source (like Linux) and watch the coming releases to see how much MORE we support Open Source utilities in Solaris in the future.
Sun is one of the largest commercial contributors to the Open Source community and is also a strong supporter of open standards.
Your comment about Linux has some merit, as Sun obviously has more resources working on Solaris. Your comment has no footing in relation to Open Source commitment.
It is more productive to voice thoughtful opinions (reply) than to judge (moderate) others.
That's never been the case, even with Cobalt appliances. The Cobalt appliances had -no- hardware support beyond their warranty. If you modified the software, you didn't void the hardware warranty, only your free software support. If you modified the hardware (beyond adding supported PCI cards), then you did void your hardware warranty (they are "appliances" after all, not meant for general purpose modification).
It was unfortunate that we didn't offer hardware service contracts, but for the low-cost appliances it (especially for a start-up company) it was not feasible. The cost of the hardware contracts would have been prohibitive to the customer (more than the cost of the box itself) -or- would have been a loss for us (the manufacturer). We looked at many was of providing this but it just never worked out. Even once we were a part of Sun, Sun came to the same determination. You would be surprised how expensive it is to stock a worldwide hardware service organization, even with commodity components and even when you already have an organization for your high-end systems.
As for the x86 general purpose stuff, yes, we provide separate hardware and software support contracts in addition to the base hardware warranty. If you want to run Debian on an LX50 and still have a Sun hardware service contract, no problem and you don't pay for software service that you don't run.
(For those intimately familiar with Sun's service levels, note that the LX50 doesn't offer Sun's high-end "Metals" programs (Bronze, Silver, Gold, Platinum). Future products may, but to get "Metals" you have to be running both Sun hardware AND software. However, if you're happy with "Hardware Only" and/or "Software Only" support, you can mix and match as you please.)
It is more productive to voice thoughtful opinions (reply) than to judge (moderate) others.
Sun has revealed the latest weapon in their fight for market share.
--
"Outlook not so good." That magic 8-ball knows everything! I'll ask about Exchange Server next.
What the hell? I don't we're there yet -- the distributions are NOT that different. Sun is very very divided on Linux, I just hope they get it together soon and figure out how to work with Linux because McNealy at least is right: a vote for Linux is a vote for Unix!
"... I declare our city to be a free and independent state to be named Tri-Insula!" --Fernando Wood, Mayor of NYC 1861
It doesn't mention the good legal reasons for a software house to *not* have their own Linux distribution, and use a third party distribution instead: patents, and "SCO vs. IBM".
If you have a copy of Sun Linux 5, hold onto it.
For all of the Sun patents embodied in the GPL'ed portions of your copy of their distribution, you effectively have a royalty-free license to use those Sun patents, in perpetuity.
This is, BTW, the reason there is no "IBM Linux".
Sun was probably also at least a little afraid of the sabre-rattling of SCO vs. IBM; by discontinuing distribution, they move out of the area of having the SCO monkey on their backs.
-- Terry
suse 8.1 and redhat 8.0 - found absolutely nothing special except a couple of tweaks for the LX-50 series rackmount that you can easily emulate with a couple of recent kernel patches (and you don't even need those for suse 8.1 since it's on 2.4.19). in fact, running apache, tomcat, and coldfusion on suse 8.1 was a breeze and performed better than a lot of the other combos and platforms we tested.
... what the hell was the software group thinking? be nice if they'd post here and clue us in on both of those aborted initiatives.
it's good that sun should drop this idea and spend more time on the x86 Solaris build which still has it's niche market. especially since the 280Rs are still unreliable
when it rains, it gets real soggy. when it pours, i'm under the tap just _waiting_ for the joy