Slashdot Mirror
EverQuest - Not Just For Geeks?
DJPenguin writes "In this article at the BBC, a respected psychologist has co-authored a study into people who play games online, which breaks some of the stereotype of online gamers." This is similar in the results as the survey data we did of open source developers. The stereotypes and realities are often *very* different.
In this article at the BBC, a respected psychologist has co-authored a study into people who play games online, which breaks some of the stereotype of online gamers.
Respected no more.
It's good to see a study that debunks the myths being propagated in
the media. Those of us who play online games know that the vast
majority of the player base are not teenagers, rather they tend to be
older, in their mid-twenties and up. I've known a few teen-age kids
that played, however they usually weren't very successful and didn't
stick with it long. Although not all teen-agers are this way, many
of the ones that I've seen play were very impatient, they just wanted
to level really fast and get all the "uber" weapons so they would
have an "uber" character.
Most of the MMORG's that I've played require a significant amount of
patience, diligence and some amount of strategy in order to develop a
highly successful character. The few teenagers I saw playing these
games didn't seem to excercise those traits in abundance.
I'd like to see them extend this study to "computer" games in
general, and maybe compare those results to the demographics of
people who play console based games. I suspect that console based
games have a significatly higher population of teenagers than
computer or desktop based games.
Doug Tolton
"The destruction of a value which is, will not bring value to that which isn't." -John Galt
- About 85% of players were male.
- A "significant minority" (15%) adopt a character gender opposite to their own.
Could it be that the 15% of female players take on guys names?My college roommate played one of these games as a female for a while. He got hit on so much that he said he didn't see how anybody could play as a female.
I admit, I agree with the article that it's not just "pimply-faced teenagers." However, this does not reconcile the geekiness factor of the players. Last year, I had a CS professor who always talked about playing this game and I have to admit, he was a loser -- great teacher, but loser nonetheless.
Just because a lot of people are taking part doesn't mean it's not just all the geeks. In fact, the world probably has more geeks in it than non-geeks.
I am over here... now I am back over here!
I may be the odd one out, but I never considered EverQuest players to be largely geeks.
I imagined them to be ordinary people who use computers in their spare time, not those who make a career out of it.
I would have thought that the sale figures of Everquest subscriptions would have broken the geek myth, The numbers should have shown by now that there aren't that many geeks in the world so normal people have to be playing MMORPGs.
Haven't you all seen the commercial for the PS2 port of EverQuest? The players appear to all be friends from different racial backgrounds, know martial arts in real life and like to strike dynamic poses when making affirmative statements such as 'Let's do this!'
It all seems to work out too:
The white guy plays the archetypal white male barbarian character.
The asian girl plays the underdressed yet powerful female wizard character.
The black guy plays the dirty green ogre barbarian character.
Everybody has their place! LET'S DO THIS!!
-Rylfaeth
I may be horribly wrong but I beleive everquest costs money to play, you have to pay a subscription to the game?
If so I think everquest maybe a little miss-representative of the set of people that this research found less of.
why? money... People under 18 don't have credit cards, which is a big barrier in getting money out of them and younger members of society generally have less income, or none at all (intermitent at best).
Therefore, no regular flow of money, no everquest?
Take a game you pick up off the shelf and pay once for, the games that teenagers can afford...
I don't mean to troll, just pointing out an observation
I always thought that stereotypes were accurate. It's kind of a shock to find out that they are different from the truth.
chillax137
I don't know... how do his findings prove the Everquest gamers aren't geeks (see snip below).
And did you see this guy's picture. You just have to look glance at him to know that he's a gamer geek. I can safely say this b/c I'm a computer/gaming geek with a goatee.
The gist of this article is
"According to Dr Mark (who's a single guy that plays video games over 40 hours a week), all the single guys who play video games 40 hours a week weren't geeks."
I guess he figures he can get plenty of support on slashdot. Maybe a sort of revenge of the nerds type thing???
---snip---
Its key findings included:
* Over 60% of players were older than 19.
* About 85% of players were male.
* Fifteen percent of people play for more than 50 hours a week.
* A "significant minority" (15%) adopt a character gender opposite to their own.
Professor Griffiths said: "There is an image that people who play online games excessively are nerdy and geeky... This is not the case."
---/snip---
"The findings dismiss the stereotype of a pimple-faced teenager locked in his bedroom.
Instead, today's player is just as likely to be a well-paid professional - male or female - aged in their 40s.
OK, so we all knew that those pimple faced kids that played D&D in their basements grew up and got good jobs. We didn't need a study for that. The sterotype still holds true, its just that the first generation of "Geeks" are all grown up now. And Still geeks.
The Geek Shall inherit the earth....of Norath that is. This is
If you dropped the bow so you weren't carrying a weapon, the default attack for this character is the high kick. I ran into some bug where the rendering engine woudn't know you were carrying a weapon but you still could shoot arrows. You'd do a high kick and a arrow would shoot out your crotch.
MMORG are mainly played by men. A significant number of whom can quite happily spend a significant amount of time playing, without anybody missing their social input into civilisation.
(Oh and that attractive elfish maiden you've been chasing after IS probably a 43yr old oracle dba - you should listen to those little voices of doubt in future).
Why would the media be creating such myths saying that geeks are the only ones spending their countless hours on the internet playing games?
Let us take the great folks at CBS/Viacom/Infinity for our example. This is the same company that brings you Howard Stern, MTV, VH1, Nickelodeon. Why would they want people to be on the internet? Young kids should be watching Rocket Power, teenagers should be watching TRL and everyone else should be watching I love the 80s. That is unless you have work, then damnit you should be listening to Stern.
It's for nerds and dorks, too.
"real" geeks don't have that much time to devote to playing games
Yet somehow, there's always time for Slashdot...
Am I the only one who saw no collelation between the stats in the article and the "its just not geeks" results?
The first was that it was overwhelmingly male. Um, isn't that a classic "geek" stereotype? Maybe if the numbers were more 50/50 (like I assume The Sims are) I'd be a little more swayed.
Secondly is the predominance of "19 and older". Well gee, what do a lot of people do when they turn 18? Go to college and live with a fat broadband connection. I'd be more impressed if it said the mean age was 32 or something. But then age has nothing to do with geekiness.
In truth I can't think of a statistic off of the top of my head that could prove the geekiness of a gaming community. Probably the only one would be if the statistics were more normal (more ethnic, gender, income diversity, instead of being primarily white, primarily male, primarily middle class like most things geeky). It wasn't like this guy bugged a High School football lockerroom and heard them talk on and on about their 40th level elf sorcerers.
What is music when you despise all sound?
Seriously, these games deserve fda regulation more than say crack cocaine. I recently managed to break free and sell my account for dark age of camelot (www.darkageofcamelot.com). Finall tally? 142 DAYS played. (3408 hours). In this time i could've gotten a phd in nuclear phisics, or made 25 thousand dollars working at mcdonalds for minimum wage!
Friends don't let friends play these games....
Boy do I not feel vindicated. Ok, so all gamerrs are not geeks. How much did this guy get paid for this "study"? Sheesh.
Simple logic tells you this. Look at the console explosion. Over the years more and more people brought games into their homes. Usually through consoles. Not all of these people are "geeks". Some are too stupid to deserve that honor.
Still, we've had gaming in the household for over a generation now, it's plainly obvious that it's not just for geeks anymore. In fact, I know a stripper who plays MMOG's. Whenever I see her character online I can't decide if I should see if she wants to hunt loot, or if I should start masturbating and giving her all of my loot, but I digress...
Games make as much money as the movies, we are beyond the saturation point, and this is not news to anyone save for geeks and nerds who are certain that nobody understands them.
I'm a geek. I get a nice paycheck. Women are shallow. They like money. Come on guys, simple logic. Go score some snapper!
Grimwell - old, cranky, mean, obsessive
Three to four hours of TV per night will turn your brain to cheese, people!
-kgj
Is anyone starting to see EQ as a problem?
I don't/won't play EQ because I know I could easily spend way too much time playing this game.
I don't many people who play EQ(I am married with children) But I do know a few, and from them and what I can tell
Are people getting serious addicted to EQ like a drug? I know people joke and call it EverCrack but
how big of a problem is it?
Are marriages, grades, family lives failing because of this game?
Someone give Hemos a medal for this one.
Seriously, what's this all about? Someone just proved that EQ doesn't only spawn 16 y/o with a record of sexual harassment. Of course EQ has sane people, normal players and a whole wad of "John Doe"s running around, having fun (or not) in a non-offensive way. Same thing with CS. A bunch of people I know IRL play CS and lo and behold: They aren't complete idiots. One of them is probably one of the coolest and calmest people I've met thus far. Yet I myself still do associate CS with 14 year olds struggling for online acceptance by being creative with the english language and various symbols and numbers, while EQ still is a stereotypic hunting ground for 16 y/o kids suffering from pure hormone rage. It's not because things are like that; it's just because of the vocal majority of a game/community or the bad part which has been highlighted by others.
There's a difference between making fun of/using stereotypes and actually believing them.
Hate me!
here.
As others have pointed out the reason only older people play Everquest is because younger people don't have credit cards. If its pay to play you needs dough and a job.
Also, of course it's not only nerds playing. Video gaming has been mainstream since the NES. People from all walks of life have been playing video games since the 80s. That's not news. Tell me when non-nerds are using linux and I'll be shocked.
Lastly, Everquest does indeed suck.
this old slashdot article tells it like it is. End of story.
The problem with MMO games is that social factors directly influence gameplay. The people who make games only know how to deal with technological and game design problems. I strongly believe that there are no technological solutions to social problems.
The GeekNights podcast is going strong. Listen!
It's all right - I'll join you.
I used to play computer games all the time when I was 15-21. I could actually pick up one of those rpg games and play the entire game the whole way through and discover everything there was to discover
I'm not trying to say gaming is not having a life, but I just can't fathom how people find the time to play these games that require a lot of time devoted to them. I spend most of my work day looking at a computer screen of some description or other - I can't think of anything worse than going home after work and sitting down in front of a computer. Much less spending my weekend doing it as well.
yeh, I think I'm just getting old
"Because it's there." - George Mallory, when asked why he wanted to climb Mt Everest, March 18, 1923 (New York Times)
Many of us are geeky, sure. But we lead real, productive lives where we are IT security admins, high-end speaker designers, reps for Coca-Cola, nurses, health food store owners, etc. To dismiss us as geeks because we play Everquest fails to get to the heart of the matter. We live in disparate places, yet have come together from across the world to PLAY.
That's what we are doing, playing. That's it. When you are playing Everquest, you get a sense of accomplishment, companionship, even friendship that many times is lacking in real life. Now, many of you will say, why aren't you out doing things to help society and other such drivel; get your feeling of accomplishment from that. I can't speak for anyone else, but I have my hands and mind full all day from saving my own little corner of the world. Let me enjoy my freetime a little, okay.
> A quarter of people who responded to the survey said they played for 41 hours or more. If that's the usage of a quarter, how many are playing the game for 20 hours a week or more? What else are you doing outside of your job if you're spending that much time on there?
Substitute television for Everquest and ask the question again. A large percentage of the population of the U.S. watches 40+ hours of TV per week. I personally watch less than an hour of television a week, and so does my wife. We spend our time together after the kids go to bed playing Everquest instead. It's actually much more social than what she did before, and if we feel like talking instead of playing, it's easier to turn away from it because you don't miss anything if you stop.
> Whatever anyone says about the skills developed by games such as EQ, there are important ones that may (that's "may", not "will") be allowed to wither on the vine, like the ability to interact well with others in social situations.
See above. it's a lot more interactive than what many people choose for relaxation.
> Having been one of these people who spent every waking hour in front of a monitor, when not at work, in the past I can't overstate too much the importance of getting out and interacting for real. The geeky stereotype comes about when you really are using EQ as a replacement for more social activities.
Agreed, but be careful about how you say that. As I stated above I and my wife (and most of our in-game friends) use it as a replacement for less social activities, and that's one of the things that this study is trying to put forward.
Virg
"Most people I know spend about 3-4 hours a night watching TV... so in many cases it is just a substitution of entertainment rather than some unfortunate development in their lifestyle."
I'd say 3-4 hours of TV/Everquest a night is certainly an unfortunate development in anybody's lifestyle. My God! I would have to break up my band, dump my girlfriend, stop riding my bike and sever ties with my family to make this much time.
In all matters of opinion, our adversaries are insane. -Oscar Wilde
I know many adults, teens, and kids that come home and watch TV straight away after work, school or whatever. They eat, fold laundry, ect in front of the TV, at 6 hours per day on average.
.
So if I think that there is nothing good on TV and decide to play everquest instead, an online game which actually allows me to interact with other people for 40 - 50 hours a week, this is a problem?
I do not think that the majority are geeks playing either. Last week I played with an 11 year old, and he was actually keeping up with our group of 23 year olds. I have also played with several 30+ players.
The point is you cannot just apply a general label and age class to anything in life without actual raw data. If sony would give you their demographic information, THEN you can make an argument on that data. I am not talking about the article I am talking about all you "non geek" slashdot readers, ( isn't that an oxy moron ) , that thing that geeks / dorks / virgins are the only ones playing games a lot, ( you forgot crank addicts, they game 280 hours a week )
the game playing continued until I went to grad school, where a significant amount of my time is now spent at my computer terminal (my thesis is computer focused). Now I find that when I go home I don't want to sit in front of a screen, even if the games graphics are nice and shiny and all.
I wonder if anyone else is like me and thinks that those people who spend more time on computers during their work-day are less interested in sitting at the computer when they come home, or if it is just the opposite?
Excuse me, doesn't it seem like the author of this "study," by playing the game himself, calls his findings (which read pretty much like simple opinions here) into question? If they'd done a story about a Zoloft study, do you think they might have asked some serious questions about the fact that the head scientist was taking Zoloft himself? Okay, so this is just a fluff story, but still, it's weird -- what stereotype is this debunking, anyway?
Let's see, what did the study find?
Is the big "shattered" stereotype that this person is supposed to be a "pimply teenager"? If you met a 40-something man without a significant other who spent 42 hours a week playing a female character online -- he's a Gnome illusionist who wears fetching custom chain mail ensembles -- what would you think? Would you think he wasn't a "geek" or a "nerd" because of his age and income?
(The BBC science staff seems to reprint press releases and call them reporting pretty often. I once told them a story about the anniversary of Prozac was uninformed, and they said "thanks" and promptly reworded the story -- as if they'd never heard of any other antidepressants until I mentioned it. On the one hand, they're responsive, but it makes you wonder about their editors...)
"Fundamentalism" isn't about divine morality. It's about human authority.
GET REAL GET SMART GET A BREASTPLATE OF THE VOID
...And you have to come to a point where you can say "I steal pants because I am too lazy to buy them on e-bay."
:CHARACTER MATTERS
We now return to the tavern where respected psychologist Dr Bloom Eternal helps everquest players through their personal difficulties:
TODAY'S SHOW: When having your pants stolen by your friends after you're dead hurts.
Dr Bloom Eternal:
Gorak_munchkin: I'm sorry Regolath! You were dead and I needed your pants. I couldn't just buy some because I only earn a pittance an hour at Chuck-e Cheese. I can't believe it's come to this. Me, over 19 and playing everquest for more than 50 hours a week as a woman even though I'm male and I still can't earn enough pp to get pants of my own! Bwahhaaaa!
Regolath_the_third: I accept that you need pants. You could have just asked for them. After all we were going on that quest to find Baldric Slezaf, or kill Baldric Slezaf or something so that you could get some platinum to cover your bare behind. I mean, waiting till I got killed by a barnacle bones was pretty low.
Dr Bloom Eternal: So you feel you're a victim?
Regolath_the_third: I HAD MY PANTS STOLEN!
Gorak_munchkin: If only I could kill some monsters. You'd think that after sacrificing so much simpsons watching time I'd be ok at combat.
Regolath_the_third: I should have stuck to progressquest
Dr Bloom Eternal: Now we're getting somewhere!
Gorak_munchkin: The bottom line is I just suck.
Dr Bloom Eternal: You do need to step up you guys need to negotiate. Obviously you're a good guy....I think you're just lazy, and you like to do things that feel good... I wouldn't care if you had 50,000 hours behind you if you could actually stay alive long enough to start the first part of a quest and you were taking care of your responsibilities as a party member. Isn't that the issue?
Regolath_the_third: Damn straight.
Gorak_munchkin: Hey! I resent the lazy tag. I'm not going to wear it.
Dr Bloom Eternal: In summary - it's not about the pants. It's about why are you not being any good.
BUY Dr BLOOM'S BOOKS AND TAPES:
Change your life with Dr Bloom's step by step advice.
Next Week:
Party dynamics: Could your party makeup be affecting your questing life? Maybe you shouldn't be entirely composed of bards.
What is the definition of a geek anymore? I consider myself to be somewhat of a geek. I love technology, I'm always jackin with software, hardware, phones, PDAs, etc.
Are geeks pasty faced teenagers, that rarely bath and wouldn't know laundry detergent if it hit them in the face?
I think everyone is a geek in their own sense. I think geekyness is good.
EMBRACE GEEKYNESS! =)