Slashdot Mirror
Recent Macs Have Built-in USB 2.0
RalphBNumbers writes "According to a forum thread at CreateMac, a Korean Mac community, the newer MDD 1.25 and 1.42 GHz dual G4s actually use a NEC PD720101 USB 2.0 controller for their built-in USB. Apple's drivers only support USB 1.x, but you can apparently enable USB 2.0 functionality by using the drivers for a USB 2.0 card from Orange Micro that uses the same NEC controller. YMMV." Is there a translation of any of this, somewhere?
It's about time the Macs support USB 2.0. Both my external 200 GB hard drive and my external DVD+RW use USB 2.0 and I have been putting off getting a Mac because of it. Now that I know I can hook these up to a Mac, maybe I'll think about it....
seriouslyexcited.net
Here's a translation..[clicky].
But there isn't really much text anyway....
Rejoice Rejoice ! One time where you don't have to RTFA ! WooHoo!
Moderation: +4. Modded 70% Funny and 30% Overrated. 100% Saturated.
I used BabelFish to translate it and here is how the title came out:
Power in Mac the up-to-date USB 2.0 internal organs?
It's alive!
...wearing a skin-tight topless leather jumpsuit, with cutaway buttocks and transparent crotch panel.
A lot of manufacturers, including Apple, seem pretty pretty close-mouthed on the 1.1/2.0 issue. I don't recall ever seeing an ad for a complete system that specified which version of USB the system supports. I guess everbody has an inventory of motherboards with built-in USB 1.1 that they need to use up. Not that big a deal if you've got an extra PCI slot for a $20 USB 2.0 card. But what if you have an iMac or some other system with no "legacy" ports or slots?
My guess is apple don't support usb 2 because it would kill firewire 800, a standard that doesn't seem to be adopted by many manufacturer yet.
Those prices aren't exactly stellar. That's without any of the fancy user-apps that Apple includes that make life a whole lot easier. That's also without the more durable and attractive construction. Nor does it include a Unix-based operating system that can also run x86 operating systems. Nor does it include FireWire. And the Wi-Fi option would take up the PC Card slot as opposed to being an internal upgrade.
So if you add up all the stuff you'd have to add to the Dell to make it comparable to the Mac, the Mac winds up being a better value, especially over time as Apple's OS updates generally make things FASTER and MORE STABLE as opposed to SLOWER and REPLETE WITH BUGS.
Oh, yeah, and if you're a corporate buyer you're sure as hell can get on-site support at your location for those Apple boxes, as well as the second source in case Apple goes out of business or discontinues the line.
Huh? Ever heard of Microsoft Windows XP? What exactly will I be missing in a Windows XP box that I would get in Apple?
What will you be missing in XP that you get with a mac? iTunes, iMovie, iDVD, iPhoto... iLife, if you wanna call it that. Four included apps that allow you to do some pretty nifty things with audio, video, and photos. XP ships with Windows Movie Maker and Windows Media Player which would cover video and audio... but they're not designed to work well together, so they don't, and that still leaves out photo and good DVD creation software.
What exactly will I be missing in a Windows XP box that I would get in Apple?
A user-friendly OS.
Please point to the research that claims that Apple notebooks generally last longer and work better than their Dell counterparts?
No such research is necessary. It's self-evident. Go do a hands-on comparison between a Dell Whatever and a PowerBook. Draw your own conclusion.
And downloading a Unix-based system, partitioning the HDD and getting a dual-boot or just trashing Windows XP and installing Linux on the laptop is non-existing in x86 world.
There goes your ease of use parity, huh?
Because it's basic configuration. It would be available as add-on.
An add-on how? This is a laptop we're talking about, yes? That means you can have FireWire or wireless networking, but not both at the same time.
Also, how crucial is that PCMCIA slot in the first place?
Since you're advocating putting lots and lots of stuff in it, I'd say damn crucial.
Bottom line: if you want to go the cheap-ass route, be my guest. If you want to buy a laptop that will last you for the next three or four years, buy a PowerBook.
Those Macs do have a USB 2.0 controller, but it doesn't really matter. I read the technical documentation for the NEC uPD7020101, which is the controller used in those Macs. The USB 2.0 portion of the controller is trivial to disable and yet still leave the USB 1.1 portion functional. It is also possible to make the USB 2.0 portion permanently disabled in hardware or disabled in hardware, but possible to enable with a hardware hack. Or for that matter disabled, but possible to enable with a new system BIOS or a new driver. Any of these are possible. Anyone care to guess which one is the case? Knowing Apple any could be the case.
Impersonating Tycho from Penny Arcade since before there was a PA.
My Powerbook's got a DVD-R drive that apparently could be a 2X writer and support DVD-RW, but Apple's drivers only support 1X writing and no RW whatsoever. Now this. Why does Apple deliberately cripple its hardware?
"A witty saying proves nothing." --Voltaire
No such research is necessary. It's self-evident. Go do a hands-on comparison between a Dell Whatever and a PowerBook. Draw your own conclusion.
PowerBook is neat-looking and all, but so what? Dells aren't butt-ugly for sure, so it's not like Apple products would turn my life into a paradise, and Dells would cause just pain and suffering.
There goes your ease of use parity, huh?
Well, if you need it, you can get it. Can I install Red Hat Linux 9 on an Apple box easily and with a nice point-and-click GUI interface?
An add-on how? This is a laptop we're talking about, yes? That means you can have FireWire or wireless networking, but not both at the same time.
Huh? It's an add-on as you buy it, go through Dell's site, choose 'Customize' for any option you would like to add, and they will have it built in. I don't see how the option of FireWire excludes wireless networking, or DVD-ROM for that matter.
Since you're advocating putting lots and lots of stuff in it, I'd say damn crucial.
Not really, most of the peripheral nowadays go with the USB port. I've got my Sharp Zaurus, an HP PhotoSmart digital camera, and my Rio MP3 player. All use USB connection. Now, Dell usually ships their stuff with 1-2 USB ports, but a $15 hub from Linksys usually fixes that problem. I haven't bought any hardware with PCMCIA capability and without USB capability, the only one I can remember that requires using PCMCIA more or less often is the CompactFlash->PCMCIA converter.
Now, between Zaurus, PhotoSmart and RIO, how many I can easily connect to a Mac laptop, have syncronized and working?
leaves out photo and good DVD creation software.
Huh? Microsoft PictureIt seems to ship with every XP box that I can remember. Also, yeah, you're right, scarcity for graphic applications for Windows is a well-known trouble, which made even Adobe claim they're moving into Wintel camp.
And there are absolutely no DVD creation applications for Windows either (hint: they're usually shipped with DVD-RW, not OS, as they're supposed to).
if you think that is bad, try to configure a dell server that competes with the XServe, you end up thinking those are pretty reasonable too, amazingly enough. the 4u dell with all the bells and whistles twibbed to match the ultimate XServe ends up scarily almost twice as much.
...the 2.0 chip isn't wired. Apple, like other OEM'simply bought boards with dual capability, since 1.0 only boards are no longer available in the quantities that Apple needs at this time. It takes another step to enable 2.0 circuitry, and that step has not been taken by Apple at this time.
The 2.0 drivers are already in the OS, so anyone that thinks they can buy a new Mac, add drivers, and have 2.0 is a bit of a chump.
- 9-pin twisted pair copper (standard for FireWire 800)
Apple also has an interesting and informative FireWire 800/IEEE-1394b tech briefStandard CAT-5
Step-index plastic fiber
Hard polymer-clad plastic fiber
Glass fiber
Also, to the person who responded saying FireWire 800 isn't twice as fast as USB 2 because USB 2 operates at 480 Mbps: you should look at the real life performance of USB - both 1 and 2. It's far short of the theoretical maximum; in the case of USB 2, often well under 400 Mbps. So FireWire 800 is more than twice as fast. Even 400 Mbps FireWire is often faster than USB 2.
However, it's really beside the point if FireWire 800 is faster than USB 2 if the device you wish to connect only has a USB 2 interface. FireWire may be the superior interface and technology for many high-speed tasks, but many consumer devices feature USB 2. It certainly can't hurt to be able to connect to the widest variety of devices possible. FireWire - not only because of speed, but because of features and the flexibility of the standard - will continue to be chosen for high end audio, video, specialty storage and networking, smart home interconnectivity, etc. Look at plasma HDTVs and DVD-A players: you won't see USB 2 on those. But it would be nice for Mac users to pick up a third-party USB 2 scanner, DVD recorder, camera, etc., and be able to take full advantage of the peripheral's connectivity (many of these devices may even have FireWire versions, or versions with both USB 2 and FireWire. But the item in stock and on the shelf at Best Buy always seems to be the USB 2-only version...that's what it really comes down to for some).
Well, if you need it, you can get it. Can I install Red Hat Linux 9 on an Apple box easily and with a nice point-and-click GUI interface?
Red Hat, no. But you can use YellowDog or Mandrake, nice and easy.
Now, between Zaurus, PhotoSmart and RIO, how many I can easily connect to a Mac laptop, have syncronized and working?
Don't know about the Zaurus, but the other two work quite nicely. If the Zaurus doesn't work now, it will soon. There is a large open source community surrounding Mac OS X.
God save our Queen, and Heaven bless The Maple Leaf Forever!
Hey, that's fine. You don't need the firewire, the Wi-Fi, and all those usefull apps then you should certainly be able to get a lower priced product that suits your needs. You spend your money on a system that has a high FPS (frame per...) and I'll spend mine on one that Just Works, Does More, and yet Just Has A Lower Cost Of Ownership Anyway.
This pseudo-hack doesn't work for the iMac. It's for the current Power Macs.
Can't you read?
This is a DMCA violation and could land you in jail.
That probably explains Apple's non-existant market share on the server market.
Ok, folks, I am done trolling for the day. Off to watch Saturday Night Live with my girlfriend.\
MacNN's got a story with a link to unofficial drivers that enable the USB 2.0 functionality. Some comments there indicate they really work, though I can't verify this myself (I have neither an MDD G4 nor any USB2 devices)
Donate free food here
If you want to go to Iraq I believe you'll find your govt does grant you those 'additonal rights'. You are simply discouraged from doing it at home. Of course your govt also reserves the right to kill you - at home or abroad. Lucky you eh.
I used to have a better sig than this, but I got tired of it
That's beautiful!
PowerBook is neat-looking and all, but so what?
You missed the point. It's not whether they're attractive or not, though they certainly are. It's the fact that PowerBooks are better built than other laptops, which makes them more durable.
Well, if you need it, you can get it.
Again, with missing the point. A PowerBook has a user-friendly UNIX operating system on it; it's there as soon as you open the box. In order to put UNIX on your Dell Whatever, you have to go find an operating system you like and then make boot disks or something and then repartition the whatever to load the thing on the... see? It's a pain in the ass. You simply don't have to do that with a Mac. It's unnecessary.
Can I install Red Hat Linux 9 on an Apple box easily and with a nice point-and-click GUI interface?
Well, apart from the fact that doing so would be like ripping the leather interior out of a Mercedes and replacing it with naugahyde, yes, you can. Red Hat has a PowerPC version, right? I would imagine they do. If they don't, there are plenty of other Linux distributions for PowerPC, all of which can easily be installed on a Mac. But the easiest and best thing to do, of course, is to buy Virtual PC-- the version that comes without Windows is something like $99-- and run Linux through that. That way you can use all the IA-32 software out there on your Mac.
But let me repeat: doing so would be colossally stupid.
It's an add-on as you buy it, go through Dell's site, choose 'Customize' for any option you would like to add, and they will have it built in.
That's funny. I can't seem to find the 802.11g option, or the FireWire 800 option. Can you point them out for me?
Now, Dell usually ships their stuff with 1-2 USB ports, but a $15 hub from Linksys usually fixes that problem.
Yes, because we all know how important it is for all of your peripherals to be plugged into your laptop all at once. Wow. You really do live in an entirely different world, doncha?
Now, between Zaurus, PhotoSmart and RIO, how many I can easily connect to a Mac laptop, have syncronized and working?
All of 'em. It's too bad you decided to cheap out, though. Every one of those peripherals is a piece of shit. Get rid of the Zaurus and buy yourself a T68i; it replaces your PDA quite admirably. I like Nikon for inexpensive digital cameras. And Rio? Give me a break. Shoulda bought an iPod. And now, as expected, you're advocating a cheap-ass Dell over a PowerBook. Man, your priorities are just all messed up, aren't they?
That menu option in the Windows XP help menu is enough to make my Mac worth it regardless of any other considerations. The message is "we think you're a criminal".
There are no such things in Mac OS X.
Oh yeah, and my iBook is the most rugged, best value piece of hardware I've ever bought. There just isn't anything to touch it in the PC laptop world, and I've taken apart my fair share of PC laptops (usually to repair them). The build quality just isn't there. Perhaps with the IBM Thinkpads, but they are still a class below the iBook and Powerbook.
Go and get your hands on an iBook and you'll see what I mean. There's no creaking when you pick it up for one thing, and it doesn't feel like a tacky ABS plastic chassis (probably because it isn't - it's a mixture of polycarbonate and magnesium/aluminium alloy).
From OS X I can manage my FreeBSD box from the terminal while working on an Office document (yes, yes, I had to get Office v.X for work purposes). I can run X11, Virtual PC (if I wanted to - I have no need since I have a w2k box as well). iTunes is far and away the best mp3 software player I have ever used.
There's just no comparison. I've used PC laptops and I'm always disappointed in them. Even new, expensive ones. I always feel content when I get back to my "slow, expensive" iBook. It's priceless to me.
The Rio mp3 player most definitely works with OS X. My friend has one, and a Dual 450 G4 tower running 10.2.3 - you connect it to a USB port and it shows up in iTunes staight away just like the iPod. Obviously you can only transfer at usb speeds, not the firewire speed of the iPod, but it does work.
It even shows a little window at to bottom of the playlist when you have it connected showing you how much space you have available.
I don't have experience with the other devices, so I can't comment.
Did you miss the point of the parent post?
Are you being sarcastic?
Or are you not through trolling after all?
p.s. You don't have a girlfriend.
It seems to be a bogus argument. Please point to the research that claims that Apple notebooks generally last longer and work better than their Dell counterparts?
You've never use a dell have you?
1) Shit inside keeps breaking. Dell will fix that as long as it's under warraanty, but it's still a nuiscance to be w/out your com for 3 weeks. Not to menation if you keep it pas warranty.
2) They ar the shittiest built laptops out there. i've use new Compaqs that are better built. And the dell screen sags ointo the kb so you get key prints on the screen.
A better comparison would have been to sonys ot ibms.
Now, mind you, I've seen some pretty bad translations from babelfish, but read this one poster's thoughts: ccep ~ Only one day inquiry possibility 1,000 times it goes over, ni the imagining outside it won and the bedspread which is not the minute when bay anyone it does as a favor the answer writing... Right ing ~ nem it does, the bedspreads ~~~ I honestly had tears in my eyes from laughter for a good five minutes. But maybe that's just me.
"Freedom is letting people do things that you don't like." -Linus Torvalds
I'll spend mine on one that Just Works, Does More, and yet Just Has A Lower Cost Of Ownership Anyway.
Just works - Any system setup, configured properly will just work, just as well.
Does More - Runs more apps? Is faster? No on both. So probably doesn't do more.
yet Just Has A Lower Cost Of Ownership Anyway - Since your Mac cost more to buy than my PC will cost throughout its entire life, I find this doubtful.
Erm, Apple does provide on site support for corporations.
T Money
World Domination with a plastic spoon since 1984
At least the drivers didn't work any magic in my hands. I installed the Orange 3.1 drivers for Jaguar, rebooted, and tested the read rate on a dual fireware400/usb2 drive connected to a PM1.42 GHz running 10.2.5. The drive is peppy over firewire (30 MB/sec) but a regular slug over USB (830 KB/sec).
I just saw some sad news on CNN - popular childrens' figure Easter Bunny was found dead on a Georgia road this evening. There weren't any more details. I'm sure everyone in the Slashdot community will miss him - even if you didn't enjoy his work, there's no denying his contributions to popular culture. Truly an American icon.
What? Someone else makes computers? Oh. My. God. I can't believe it. Thank you for pointing that out, thank you from saving me from buying another (shudder) Apple. Thank you Anonymous Cowards for showing me the true path of righteousness and thrift. Now please shut the hell up until you have something interesting to say.
Anyone who whines about being modded down should be.
Saw a 15 in. iMac at Microcenter in Cambridge for $899 yesterday.
Huh? Ever heard of Microsoft Windows XP? What exactly will I be missing in a Windows XP box that I would get in Apple?
Apple's drivers. Plug things in and they work. I spend about 1/2 of my time on each, and take my word for it, since Apple has a limited pool of hardware to be compatible with, Apple's support of that hardware is much cleaner.
Another thing that is bugging me on migrating over to OS X from a PC environment is the lack of decent scanners for the Mac. Most Firewire based scanners are $399 and up. HP doesn't make any of their decent consumer grade scanners with Firewire ports. It ceases to amaze me since a good majority of HP consumer PC's have Firewire ports. Instead, they just offer USB 2.0. I don't want to use USB 2.0; USB is too processor-intense. I'm not even asking for Firewire800 support, just plain-and-simple IEEE1394a. And HP doesn't even have a good excuse. What does Firewire licensing cost per port, 25 cents? On a $130 scanner that probably costs less than $20 to manufacture? The retail markup is $30 at best. Do the math. And in my case, it is inmaterial whether Apple offers USB 2.0 support, I want a decent Firewire scanner. Quit being so cheap, HP, and make a decent product! And while I'm at it, I'd like to see drives use internal Firewire ports. Why should a CD/DVD drive use Serial ATA? Leave Serial ATA for the hard drives on their own dedicated channels.
"Right now, somewhere in this world, Scott Baio is plowing a woman he doesn't love," - Peter Griffin, *Family Guy*