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Developing PC's for the Legally Blind?

Posted by Cliff on from the computing-ideas-for-the-disabled dept.

Jon asks: "My father is legally blind, to the point of not being able to see more then just a vague shadow, if even that. His one hope has always been to use a computer. I've decided to build him a PC that would allow him to send and receive email as well as read the weather to him, yet not require any voice recognition. Input would be done by showing him where certain function keys are and possible putting special marks he can learn on the rest of the keys. Has any of the slashdot readers tackeled a project like this before? I've seen several projects, yet none that seem like a good solution, or are not complete. Any insight you have would be greatly appreciated."

46 comments

  1. FRIST PSOT!!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Shoutz to Steve, Vlad, and the other lads.

  2. No voice recognition? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I've decided to build him a PC that would allow him to send and receive email as well as read the weather to him, yet not require any voice recognition.

    Good idea. That way if he suddenly becomes dumb as well, he can still use it.

    Seriously, why not just use voice regonition? If your goal is to get your father up and running as fast as possible, why not use available tools rather than creating your own solution?

    1. Re:No voice recognition? by Smidge204 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      probably because Voice recognition isn't all that reliable. Guy gets a headcold or answers the phone and suddenly things don't work all that well.

      I'm kinda thinking if there would be some way to make a brail "Screen" of some sort. A large array of pixels that could be raised and lowered to form brail markings and possibly other shaped (like boxes to outline function buttons and prompts).

      Not really in the realm of do-it-yourself projects... at least not easily or cheaply... but should be possible somehow!
      =Smidge=

    2. Re:No voice recognition? by TC+(WC) · · Score: 2, Informative

      They actually make braille 'displays'. They're rather neat.

      Here's a useful link

    3. Re:No voice recognition? by Oriumpor · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Lets Start from the top. I really enjoy helping my visually impared friend use his computer (he doesn't NEED my help to use it regularly, but to install things he is unfamiliar with, or set up things which involve heavy Direct X it helps to have someone who can see the screen.)

      Now, I haven't set him up with an audio linux box yet, mostly because I can't get parts together. But I have heard that someone has made a mod for quake (or was it doom) that let you use it in an audio only mode.

      Braille "displays" exist today, but are expensive.
      As to keyboard markings and such almost every keyboard I have today has raised bars or dots on F and J, sombody thought it was funny to put them on D and K on my first keyboard so in the dark at times I forget where the keys are.

      When I watch a blind person use a keyboard, (ITS BETTER TO USE A NORMAL ONE) they start by centering themselves on the keys, and if they have to find an uncommon key the gaps between the different types of keys help in sightless recognition.

      ALSO almost any screen reader can be set up to say EVERY letter you type (T Y P E, TYPE.) So if you misplace your hand for a second you can move it back to where it needs to be.

      If he is visually impared and physically handicapped in some way the issue may be more difficult, in that case a speech recognition system would probably pay off. But from the sounds of it a regular keyboard (possibly with bars on F and J instead of dots) works well.

      Horribly so, I would reccomend a MS/Internet Pro keyboard as you can program things like mail etc and that's not to difficult to use while sightless. (count the buttons from the left etc.)

      Whatever you do, for his personal computer get several copies of the same keyboard in case one breaks (2-3.)

      University Libraries have computers that are accessible by the visually impared AND in some cases even some of the labs as well.

      Jaws/Window Eyes are 2 of the *only* programs available for windows users, the brlspk linux distro I have never tried, and would like to test the usability of. I regularly use festival for personal uses (and for making book.txts into mp3s) and from my experience with Festival/Viavoice I would say it's indeed possible to have an easy to use linux distro... so I should probably buckle down and try out brlspk

      If you really want to get a Braille display then you should really shell out the cash (they have already been tested thoroughly and are in most cases warranteed for many years.)

  3. Re:Insight? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    actually, I'll be the one killing you.

    --God

  4. Screen readers by JasonMaggini · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I have worked on a computer that had screen readers installed for a user that was legally blind. It would read everything on the screen. "Mozilla. Title Bar. Slashdot. File Menu. File. Edit.." etc. Seemed like it would take a lot of concentration.
    XP has some sort of narrator program built in, I believe.

    1. Re:Screen readers by gh0ul · · Score: 1

      I'm really trying to lean towards cost effective methods.. I don't have a huge budget for this project so my original ideas have been to use Linux

      Back a long time ago I played around with the 'rsynth' application which read text which was piped to it.. Perhaps I could write some types of apps to pipe his e-mail and so forth to it.. but I'd rather figure out a more functional and easier way of doing it.

      Graphical interfaces might be a bit too non-userfriendly to sight impaired

      Thanks for your advice tho

      - Jon

    2. Re:Screen readers by R0 · · Score: 1

      CLI is obviously easier to scrape well.
      The Blinux Project(not a distro.)
      A SuSE Linux article on Blinux(Writen by a blind SuSE Developer)

  5. I have a client with similar needs... by MrIcee · · Score: 4, Insightful
    I've a client in his 70's. I submitted a similar slashdot article a couple weeks ago, but specific to voice recognition.

    My client is literally blind in that all he can see are vague shapes. He is also a hard-core smoker and his voice is fairly inconsistant.

    He uses JAWS which is a program that reads information on the screen. I find it terribly annoying but he likes it's functionality.

    He wanted voice input... and I called a number of vendors including IBM's voice project etc... but all of them said NO GOOD for nearly blind users as the training sessions are very long and involved and the user has to READ the screen (impossible).

    He received a few weeks ago a flyer about the QPOINTER software product. This product is fairly new and not much is out there. I contacted the company and they said training was fairly short (15 minutes or so). I inquired if I could print out the training sessions and they (very nicely I might add) had their programmers send me the training sessions as text files. I printed them out in 2-inch high Arial Black letters on paper (29 pages worth) and brought them over and said "can you read these" and he said "nope". Great... but we installed the software anyway. The training system allowed me to pause so I would pause it, read a couple words to him and then un-pause and he would repeat them. We trained for about 3 hours and indeed it would open up the browser for him, etc. One problem was that he couln't read the visual cues that QPOINTER pops up - but by placing things in a KNOWN order I was able to get him around that.

    However, when it came time to entering URL's etc... we were only able to get about 10% accuracy from the program - mainly due to the fact that his voice, after years of smoking, is terribly inconsistant. We retrained for a couple of hours on another day but to no improvement. Thus - we scrapped the voice input idea since he would have no idea if it recognized words and letters correctly or not.

    At this point, frustrated, I realized that since I can type totally with MY eyes closed, he should be able to as well. Unfortunatly, he doesn't know how to type - but his wife used to be a typing instructor so... I went out and purchased him the ergonomic MS keyboard (the one with the huge split down the middle). I did this because that keyboard makes finding the proper keys easier due to the split (you don't need to hunt for the raised bump). His wife is currently going to try to teach him to type, and once he gets that down I'm going to go over the special key functions and try to make it work for him.

    This is an area ripe for development. As us geeks get older we will encounter the same problems and we WILL demand a solution. Voice recognition is great, but it doesn't work except as a productivity enhancement (e.g., you still need to be able to read). A bigger screen would not help because no matter how big the letters are, he can't read them. Same for a head-up display. And voice input on a system that is ALSO doing voice output provides it's own set of problems (solved currently by using a headset mic).

    Good luck - and let us know if you will, how this went for you!!

    Aloha

    1. Re:I have a client with similar needs... by Calmiche · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Actually, before reading this article, I hadn't even thought about applying this type of technology to myself. Thanks for the eye opener MrIcee. But it is true. As we get older, this type of technology is going to become all to personal. I should really have considered it before, since I'm near sighted with over 13 points of loss so far. (If my glasses weren't this new carbon stuff, my glasses would be a little short of a 1/2 inch thick on the edges.)

      Anyway, the first thing that came to mind was a vision of Sneakers, a movie from 1992, that included David Strathairn as Whistler, who was visually impaired. He read Playboy in Braille, and had a great box that let him read what was on the computer screen. It's not quite the same but I found something that can do the same thing. http://www.deafblind.com/display.html Unfortunately, these refreshable Braille displays are EXTREMELY expensive. I've been finding prices of about $5,000 to $12,000. They are also prone to breaking down.

      By the way, does anyone know how hard it is to learn Braille? I've never tried. Is it something I should do now, while younger, or is it easy enough that I shouldn't worry until I go blind?

      I also found a couple of solutions.. There is a company that sells both large print keyboards, http://hooleon.com/prod-vis.htm and Braile keyboards http://hooleon.com/prod-braille.htm. (Or you can get them both.)

      I also found a couple of software packages that seem to be pretty common for reading text out loud off computer screens.

      IBM Home Page Reader http://www-3.ibm.com/able/hpr.html
      pwWebSpeak http://www.soundlinks.com/pwgen.htm
      Jaws http://www.freedomscientific.com/fs_downloads/jaws .asp

      And last, but not least, since I am a bibliophile, I had to find some Braille e-books for download. http://library.utah.gov/web-braille.html But you have to be blind to sign up for the service.

    2. Re:I have a client with similar needs... by MrIcee · · Score: 1

      I had thought about the Braille option fleetingly... Since he is in his 70's I figured that it would be easier to teach him how to type on a standard keyboard... than to try to teach him Braille AND how to use Braille input, etc. (not to mention that I don't know Braille myself ;). I suspect that if I were to take him down the Braille line of thought, that the cost of equipment, lessons and travel to someplace that would teach them (he's on the Big Island of Hawaii) wouldn't be worth the time and trouble. Or at least... we should give standard keyboards a go at it first, since they're only $49 for a decent one ;).

    3. Re:I have a client with similar needs... by gh0ul · · Score: 1

      Thank you guys for your input, I think I will go the route of a large key'd-keyboard.

    4. Re:I have a client with similar needs... by mr3038 · · Score: 1
      My client is literally blind in that all he can see are vague shapes. He is also a hard-core smoker and his voice is fairly inconsistant.
      [...] At this point, frustrated, I realized that since I can type totally with MY eyes closed, he should be able to as well.

      I have to agree that the best input method for a blind is touch typing (it's the best input method for the rest of us, too). I'd also suggest using console apps only, as I cannot see any advantage from the use of GUI apps. Mouse is practically useless if you cannot see the cursor.

      While reading your description about how that blind client is learning touch typing, it came to my mind that some people can listen morse code really fast. If this legally blind person can see changes in lighting then perhaps some kind of visual morse code could be faster output method than voice output. The screen would flash between white and black... you get the idea.

      Any morse code gurus here? How fast could one "read" that way? Perhaps combine that with voice output: the UI specific stuff could be outputted to voice output and the content could be outputted to visual morse code. Or the other way around. Separating UI and content could be a bonus here too.

      --
      _________________________
      Spelling and grammar mistakes left as an exercise for the reader.
  6. XP And The Legally Blind by LiQiuD · · Score: 3, Informative

    We have 3 developers that are currently legally blind, and they all have a special wrist-rest that has braile on it as well as a screen scraper (Jaws with the XP Narrator) and this seems to work for them...one catch, your video card must work with Jaws, alot of them don't...as for the keyboard, there are always little marks on f and j, teach him to find the rest of the keys from there. If that doesn't work, i have seen a few braille keyboards out there, but not sure where to get them... Feel free to email me to discuss this more - liqiud@havenbbs.com

    1. Re:XP And The Legally Blind by gh0ul · · Score: 1

      I think I'll get him a keyboard with large buttons, then go from there

      Thank you for your input and advice.

      -Jon

  7. Ask the guys at [H]ardOCP... by miked50 · · Score: 1

    I think Steve at [H]ardOCP has a mother who is blind and uses the computer. I'm not sure how much help is needed for her to use it, but he may be able to give you a reality check on what to expect.

  8. dragon by zogger · · Score: 1
    Dragon naturally speaking, surf, email, etc.



    You can also get telephone based e-mail from several vendors.

    1. Re:dragon by gh0ul · · Score: 1

      Doesn't the telephone based email only read it to you?

      It would be easier, and probably cheaper to pipe the email to a some type of reader..

      If you know of a telephone based system that can translate voice to email, let me know please.

      - Jon

    2. Re:dragon by zogger · · Score: 1

      here's one that claims to be able to do a reply back to the sender, not clear if it will initiate one though

      http://www.email2phone.net/default.aspx?google.c om

      Verizon claims full functionalty, receive, compose, forward, get scores, weather, etc all from one of their wireless phones and all voice activated once a two digit code is pressed in

      http://news.verizonwireless.com/news/2002/10/pr2 00 2-10-17.html

      On that dragon deal, I was trying out a beta they had for mac classic (well, I think it was them, dang if I can remember now but that dragon sticks with me)several years ago and it worked pretty well for starting and stopping applications. Literally just talked to the computer, impressed the friends over to the house. The only bugs I got with it was when the tv or radio was on in the room and some programmed in keyword got spoken by the other appliances, pretty funny! You'd have one dumb appliance giving commands to another one and they would get followed! hahahaha!

      nice article on speech technology

      http://finance.lycos.com/home/news/story.asp?sto ry =30619535

      Vanguard and Voice Web, including navigating inside of documents and attachments. Means you can skip around, don't have to have every single word repeated over and over. coolness.

      http://www.speechtechmag.com/pub/industry/352-1. ht ml

      There's quite a bit more, use google but search in news rather than websites, you'll get the very latest press releases. I used voice activation as an initial search term, then it can be refined, especially using words to not include.
      google is just the best if you get into doing advanced searching. I must use it 20 times a day at a minimum, and is one of the few things I would pay a reasonable yearly fee for on the web. I hardly ever just use a dumb search with google, you get so much better results with narrowing it down in a few steps.

      good luck! I think voice activated everything is going to be a steady interest and growth field for the web.

  9. how is his braille? by not-quite-rite · · Score: 3, Informative

    There are a number of manufacturers that sell stick on caps for the keys. This allows people to convert an ordinary keyboard into a braille keyboard.

    see here:

    http://www.speedskin.com/html/home.asp

    Pretty damn useful. As for screenreaders, JAWS is alright, though all screenreaders are painful to use...

    I am currently working on a database of accessibility technology for those with print disabilities etc, so if you would like more info or you have info to share please email me

    luvgnu 'at' hotmail.com

    Good luck now!

  10. Neat, but pre-built. by GiMP · · Score: 2, Informative

    This isn't about building a computer, but rather a pre-built computer running Linux. It can also be used to access a Windows machine as a keyboard, but it can run independantly.

    http://www.papenmeier.de/reha/products/elbae.htm
    You can find one on sale here, although they don't seem to have the Qwerty version:
    http://www.tvi-web.com/products/elba.htm l

    Yes, it is painfully expensive.. but it is certainly a 'niche' item.

  11. Re:No voice recognition? (Jon) by gh0ul · · Score: 1

    The real reason I don't wish to do voice recognition is due to the fact of him not being able to train it to his voice.. the current systems are way too "beta" so to say..

    - Jon

  12. Re:Insight? by gh0ul · · Score: 1

    Grow up.

    - Jon

  13. Computers for the blind by skwirlmaster · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I work at a computer lab at my school that is geared toward the disabled. We have a few blind students who use the systems. Mostly they use a program called JAWS, that is a screen reader. Using key combinations they are able to navigate the screen with pretty good results. As far as marking the keys goes, we have braille stickers over the keys. I beleive there is a GNU/Linux solution out there... BrailleSpeake I believe. It is a distro for the blind, you would probably have to set it up. It comes with a screen reader and built in support for touch devices. I hope this helps

    --
    My inner self is ineffable, so don't eff with me.
    1. Re:Computers for the blind by skwirlmaster · · Score: 1

      Uhh... Let me correct myself It isn't braille speak... its its brlspeak: http://www.brlspeak.net/ Here are a few more good info links: http://blindpng.freeshell.org/links.html http://leb.net/blinux/ http://www.uni-paderborn.de/cs/heiss/blinux/index- en.html

      --
      My inner self is ineffable, so don't eff with me.
  14. Software Idea by FosterSJC · · Score: 1

    I don't know how enterprising a programmer you are, but this shouldn't be too hard with a text-to-speech SDK. Below is a copy of a post I wrote in an ask slashdot: Communication Devices For Stroke Victims.

    In this thread, the subject wasn't blind, but was restricted in motion. I suggested a moving cursor type summary of screen using a simply few-button interface. This could be easily altered to service the blind by having the choices read as they are scrolled. Keep this in mind, and here is a link to the thread. Good Luck.

  15. Texture the Function Keys by mageben · · Score: 1

    instead of labeling them F1 F2 F3 F4 F5 F6 F7

    lable them with different patterns of rubber or felt. like

    F1 = ////
    F2 = \\\\
    F3 = 000

    etc...

    you also may want to find a keyboard which requires more pressure to type with so there are less errors while finding keys, like where's that F1... Feels Presser F4 F3 F2... ah there it is...
    "Opening mail"... "Opening Chat"... "Opening Browser"... WTF?

    -Code

    --

    ---PRESS ANY KEY TO CONTINUE---
    "Now, where's the damn 'any' key?"

  16. legally blind? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    what the fuck? versus illegally blind?

    how about just 'blind.' unless slashdot is now a fucking handicapped parking spot.

    1. Re:legally blind? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What a pud! I suppose you would rather that those with special needs park further then you, because you are better then them.

      Get a life.. I know more Deaf and Blind people that have a clue the low lifes that gripe about parking spots.

      Get to know some.. you might be amazed..

    2. Re:legally blind? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      are you fucking bling? you stupid cunt, you didn't even read what i wrote. maybe tell your gay lover to be a bit more careful with his cock so he doesn't punch your ear drums out as well.

    3. Re:legally blind? by jasonditz · · Score: 1

      There is a legal definition of blind that stops short of being "totally blind". It varies from state to state, but basically if you're vision isn't correctable to an acceptable level you are legally blind.

      Maybe he should just try larger fonts and better glasses?

  17. Re:Insight? by cathouse · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I hope that a few items that have made things work for me will help-I've got one foot in each camp, so to speak, as a result of a detached retina in my right[dominant] eye which was notable to be surgically repaired well enough to give me any better than [corrected] about 20/85 in that eye, which is just shy of the 'legaly-blind' mark. My other eye has full function, with fully correctable presbyopia [that's the $2 word for post 30 far-sighted] Money has been in very short supply for the three years I've been dealing with this situation, so these are all either free or damn cheap. 1} Just 'good' lighting ain't enough. My desk lights are a Luxo ring-light/magnifier [go for quality here-it matters] witha cool-white tube; and an overhead halogen about 2 feet above the keyboard controled by a variac. A dimmer would do, but being able to kick the voltage to the little spot [one of the 2-pin bulbs about 1 inch long-100 W] UP to140 volts is the edge I sometimes need! 2] Ive got two monitors going-both CRT. A Princeton Graphics 17 inch and a Sony 19 inch 500PS Trinotron which I use for text. Good contrast is the critical factor here-not excessive. If it's not right here, exhausting on top of useless is a really lousy combination! I'm still experimenting with fonts: right now I'm using Andale Mono and News Gothic Condensed, both of which I think came with Windows 98SE. [$$] 3] The best keyboard I've found in the cheap/free catagory is the KeyTronics 101/301. Good feel, positive both in feel and sound and with keyws that seem 'better spaced' than most. I haven't had the chance to try any of the big-key types and [Dei Gra] get by without. 4] The Kensington Expert Mouse Pro trackball is the thing that makes it all come together and work for me--4 BIG buttons and a big comfortable ball and the MouseWorks [a little frustrating at first, but NOT buggy] beats all hell out of that Microsoft abortion that I've mercifly forgotten the name of. The magnifier that comes with the ATI HYDRAVISION is MUCH better than the windows Accessability [HA!] version, but I have no idea if it will work with any other video cards. I hope my half[not assed] experiances are of help to you and your father and to...?

    --
    Thelma, I'm not making ANY deals.
  18. Blinux by JimDabell · · Score: 1

    Take a look at Blinux, it's a Linux distribution especially targetted at the blind.

  19. Apple's universal access features. by Oliekirk · · Score: 1

    If blind people are feeling particully loaded and dont mind the fact the entire pc community has a hatred for them and says they should change computer that could consider Apple.

    http://www.apple.com/macosx/jaguar/universalacce ss .html

    MacOSX has some pretty neat features for the visualy impaired like white on black instead of black on white (Change the screen resolution and the colours go inverted.) which is really good if your eyes are tired because the text is more readable. You can make the mac speak all alerts and speak selected text and specch recognition for menus is standard so navigating is easy. And reasuringly the bumps on the 'f' and 'j' keys are there for some.
    I think this would be helpful if you wanted no hassle setting it up bt you could probably set something up wiht more effort.

  20. Freedom Scientific by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Check out http://www.freedomscientific.com - They do a lot of stuff, both HW and SW, for the blind. I believe they are also the people who make JAWS (a screen-reader program). It's a neat company - many of their employees (coders) are blind, as is their CEO, I believe.

  21. I don't know about the legally blind, by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    but Wintel has shown us how to develop PCs for those who lack vision.

  22. Emacspeak by SlightlyMadman · · Score: 1

    Just for the record, I use vi, but I've heard really great things about Emacspeak. I've talked to a number of wearable computing folks who use prefer an audio interface to their wearable (over the expensive and bulky HMDs on the market today), and they all operate entirely in Emacs, because of this.

    --

    Money I owe, money-iy-ay
  23. Cheap shot by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Judging from window manager look and feel, I thought most versions of Linux were targeted at the blind...

  24. A Linux Distribution Especially for the Blind by michaelredux · · Score: 1

    This sounds like exactly what the original poster needs.

  25. Morse Code (Re:I have a client with similar needs) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    As a amateur radio operator I have known people capable of sending and receiving morse code at 20 words per minute. A morse code "word" is defined much like in touch typing as 5 characters. It used to be that one would need to show a morse code proficiency at 20 WPM to get the highest amateur radio license (Extra class). One would have to pass a 20WPM test of "ordinary" text and a 16WPM test of arbitrary characters to get a commercial radio license called the General Radio Operators License.

    It seems common for those with the desire to easily achieve a 25-30WPM send and receive speed. I don't see why morse code couldn't be used as a means to read the screen and/or enter text to the computer. I would suggest taking a look at http://www.handiham.org/ for information on handicapped amateur radio operators.

    There are a number of morse code applications for Linux. I did some searching in the past to find some for my amateur radio hobby. I forget the names of the projects but people have created ways to screen read in morse, enter text in morse by tapping on the mouse button, etc. As others have mentioned Suse includes utilites for the blind as well as the amateur radio operator.

  26. Re:Insight? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Have you ever heard of a paragraph?

  27. Am I Soup Or Not? Barcode by SEWilco · · Score: 1
    Include a barcode reader which can tell him what is in a can. Automated method would access a database of codes to find what a code means (and then keep a copy of the info for each code read "recently" for future use).

    Manual method would be to type in the meaning of unknown barcodes, with human or other assistance. Someone can look at the can with a webcam, OCR, inference (the barcode reader only knew it was manufactured by Campbell's, and I only bought one soup, so I know what it is).