Slashdot Mirror
Digital Cameras for Use in Tough Conditions?
b!arg asks: "I am a sysadmin for a construction company. Currently the company spends god knows how much money on disposable cameras. They use these cameras to document accidents and the such out in the field. Typically these disposable cameras have 27 pictures available to them but only a few are ever taken before they are developed because of time. We can't hold onto a camera to take different shots of different accidents until its full. I am looking into the feasibility of moving to all digital cameras. Does anyone have experience with using these in such a potentially damaging setting? Obviously no digicam will withstand getting run over by a dumptruck, but what have you found to be a durable digital camera for people out in the field. Ease of use is also fairly important. And since we understand that these will almost definitely break once in awhile, I can't buy $1000 cameras. Two MegaPixels is sufficient quality, preferably using CF and, if I can dream, waterproof since the Northwest U.S. tends to be a tad rainy (does that break my budget?). Or am I trying to be too 'techie' when this solution just won't work because of the conditions in which they'll be used?"
Aside from maybe getting wet, what other abuse are you concerned with?
Paul Lenhart writes words!
I would love to use a digital camera for my Concealed Handgun Class photos, but the State of Texas will *not* allow digital photos for legal reasons. That's because a digital photo can be undetectably altered too easily. The same thing might apply to your situation.
Concealed Handgun License Courses in Plano, Texas
Did you try searching Google?
The Canon PowerShot S series cameras are small and robust, with a metal case and a lens that retracts flat into the body and is protected by a retracting cover. They produce excellent pictures. I have an S100, which I've just replaced with an S400 because I liked it so much. (The S400 is the newest 4 megapixel descendant of the S100.)
For your situation, I'd add on the appropriate waterproof case. I imagine a PowerShot in one of those would stand up to falling from a truck, being dropped in wet cement and hurriedly rinsed off with beer, and so on.
GCHQ Quantum Insert installed. If only our tongues were made of glass, how much more careful we would be when we speak
Canon PowerShot S200 series (Elph)'s have a waterproof case availble as do Sony DSC-P1s.
why bother though? disposables are cheaper and easier for your needs and do not pose the annoying "its digital so that image must have been faked" problem in a legal battle.
It may not be the best thing in the world as far as ergonomics, but a number of companies make housings for generic fit or specific fit digital cameras. Furthermore, here's a guy that builds his own.
main(){char I,l,O[]={'-',1-1,0,(1<<5)-1,0+'-',-10-1,-10,11-0,
Why are you using disposable cameras instead of film cameras? The cost of film would lower the total cost over time to be cheaper than disposables. I assume the reason is because the cost of replacing a disposable camera is lower than the cost of replacing a film camera. If that is the case, then digital cameras are a worse solution because they will break easier and cost more to replace. Unless you can make a strong case for the freedom that digital prints give you (and these days, most photo shops can turn analog pics into JPEGs for a few extra bucks) then stick with what already works for you.
Also, disposables are incredibly easy to use. Most digital cameras require you to set it to Take-A-Picture mode (instead of playback, setup or others) which trips up a lot of people. If you think taht digital cameras are easy to use go to the mall and pick 5 middle aged people. Hand them your camera, turned off and set to setup mode, then ask them to take your picture. How many are able to figure it out without your help?
Why can't I moderate something "Wrong" or at least "Grossly Misinformed"?
Canon PowerShot A40 and the Waterproof Case WP-DC 200S.
It's a cheap combo that takes decent pics. And the additional case makes it pretty darn durable. It uses regular AA's so you can always find juice for it in the field.
I think your biggest problem will be whether or not digital pictures are legitimate in court when you're talking accident claims. They can be altered far too easily.
I sell lots of these kits to local mining and smelting companies. The combination is a bit pricey for just 2MP/3x optical zoom; converting from Canadian dollars, at retail prices, I sell these at about $260 per camera and $150 per watertight case. Keep in mind this is a retail store, though. I'm certain you could find a better price online if you don't mind the lack of local tech support.
:) )
Like all Canons, they use plain compactflash, and the A series uses AA batteries. If you're out in the field on a deadline, being able to go to the nearest corner store for an emergency power supply can save your ass. The A60s are newer, but I've found they're less durable. I've got an A70 myself, but it's not really suited for abuse.
This is all anecdotal, anyways. I've never done any proper stress testing, I'm just going by what my customers in a few heavy industries have told me. ( My boss would kill me if I spent a day dropping store stock and seeing what happens.
It may be overkill, but they sell an underwater photography case for it.
It takes great pics and has full manual override for everything. Physically, it seems to be pretty sturdy. Strong metal case, and the LCD has a plastic screen over it - you can't directly touch the LCD screen. It uses Compact Flash cards, and comes with 16MB. Crucial sells 256 for about $65 US and 128 for about $32 US. I can't get exact prices since their site's down for "scheduled maintenence."
Here's some reviews (some of a70 (same camera, but 3.2 megapixels)):
Steve's Digicams
Epinions
Digital Camera Resource Page
Digital Photography Review
CNet User Reviews
Google Search
How are you going to keep them down on the farm once they've seen Karl Hungus?
It sounds like you want to convert to digital cameras purely on geek factors. Don't. Consider the problem space before trying to come up with solutions.
--
Twoflower
I use a $70 800x600 camera called EZ-camera by I think ezonics. It takes CF cards and is PRETTY robust. Its taken rain on it and many many falls.. I suppose is made of only surface mount devices.
Just get a cheap one and try it out in the field. Should at least last a few times to be worth its price. Good thing cheaper is also simpler to learn, assuming YOU will be the one to transfer the pics.
"Give orange me give eat orange me eat orange give me eat orange give me you." -Nim Chimpsky
I don't quite understand. You teach a class for people who are getting concealed handgun permits? Or is this something else?
Why can't you use whatever photos you want to teach a class? How do you use these photos?
If tits were wings it'd be flying around.
Do you actualy NEED 2 Mpix+ or is that is that just a 'nice to have'? like wise do you need a flash, or will you mostly be taking pictures out doors?
If neither apply, you might be better served by buying a load of cheap digital cameras, and while trying not to break them, not worrying over much if you break a few. After all, that $1000 budget will buy an awfull lot low cost $50 cameras like this one.
Of course you can still keep arround a few disposable cameras, in case you need to take picutes at night or such like.
In any case, do you expect to break them that often? the conditions on a construction site can't be that much harsher from those experenced by backcountry hikers and campers, who don't usualy break their equipment.
I am also a sysadmin for a construction company. We had the same problem where we were blowing threw tons of $$$ on disposable cameras and developing. The Project Managers and I were finally able to convince our frugal and technophobic VP into letting us buy digital cameras.
We decided on the Fuji FinePix 2600. It's a nice little camera that is easy to use. I'm not sure how waterproof they are though. In my experience when you start talking about "ruggedized" or "waterproof" it means a huge price jump.
As far as the legal issue goes we take it on a case by case basis. Meaning that some of our contracts specifically state that digital photography is not to be used. I have to say that lately we have not had many contracts that forbid the use of digital cameras.
I worked as an construction inspector for the city here. Every spring we would go out and take pictures of every thing that would be affected by the oncoming construction, including two pictures of each driveway, every tree close to the construction, fencelines, property lines, etc. This was done to prevent homeowners placing the blame for pre-existing problems on the city.
One example of this was a fellow who claimed that a large oak on his property was damaged by heat from a shovel's exhaust. A few bucks in camera film saved the city a few thousand in lawyer fees right there.
I mention this because in our case a digital camera was not acceptable. The time that the picture was taken was vital, and having the picture between 31 other negatives on a strip goes a long way towards that goal. I know little about digital cameras, but I imagine the date would be trivial to alter.
As far as durability is concerned, the only expensive object I saw on site was an electronic transit ($25,000+), and have seen a couple of those run over by trucks. If you want durabilty, maybe check out the military specs guys?
Here's one, I'm sure Google will help you find many more...http://www.itronix.com/Products.asp
If you wrap your fingers around to form a small hole through them, you can capture an image of a solar eclipse on the ground or in a box. It works suprisingly well.
Healthcare article at Kuro5hin
This thing is so tiny you can put it in your shirt-pocket! Outside pictures are actually pretty good. I've shown the pics to a couple of friends (one who is a serious camera buff), and they were all amazed something that tiny could snap a picture that good. It's no Canon Power shot, but even at a 1/8 picture quality, it is still pretty good.
And at only $90 at ThinkGeek, so it won't break the bank.
A Cannon Powershot S100 or S110 if you need video. I have owned both and they are truly exceptional camera's. I managed to drop my S100 from ~8 ft onto asphalt and there was no real damage (the corner ended up a bit dented, although there was no loss of funtionality). As this camera is inexpensive now, and of 2.1 MP quality, and uses the CF card I think it would suit you very well.
Try this one. It's only $140 and can take upto 3.1 megapixel, takes SD/MMC cards, and has a USB hookup. I honestly think that you should give up on the durability idea. Price/Reliability/Durability, pick 2. At $140 even if they break 1 or 2, it's not a bad deal considering how expensive disposables/film processing/time lost/what-if-they-fuck-up-my-film is in the long run. Hell, I'd look into getting a discount if you buy like 5 or more. As for conditions, just buy a really sturdy/waterproof case. Hell, get a watertight tackle box and shove it in there.
"...we dont care about the economics; we just want to be able to hack great stuff."
...a Polaroid camera. They even have a model called the "JOBPRO" that's "designed for the construction professional".
A digital would just sit around in the glovebox and it's battery would always be dead when you needed it.
A quick thought, if you use the video feature it is much harder to alter than a digital photo, so in cases where you need "Proof Positive" evidence, I would suggest using the video feature on the 110 instead of simply taking a photo.
And we just bought a bunch of $189 Sony cameras and told the guys if they break it, they buy it.
Works good so far.
insurance claims are much better with a film camera over a digital. If you want to be frugal about it,not waste shots, get a high end polaroid. The film is expensive but you take the shots you need and no more, and you can see fairly instantly if the shot came out or not. Three shots is slightly under 3$, and is probably better quality than the 6$ throw away with developing of 23 more shots you don't need. I used to have to take pix of exhibits damaged in transit or from previous shows (exhibit & tradeshow industry) so we couldn't be charged for the damage, we always used polaroids for that.
A few people have suggested the Canon Powershot series - while they're semi-durable, they really aren't ruggedized, and underwater enclosures are expensive and clunky.
I used to be a sysadmin at an engineering company where our engineers would often need to take pictures out on job sites, and we found the perfect camera for the job: the Kodak DC5000. The interface is simple, they're 2MP, and they're tough as nails. They're weatherproof and could probably survive a dunk into water as all the doors and buttons are rubber sealed. There's a protective tube to protect the lens when it's extended. Battery life is pretty decent, and it works great on AA NiMH rechargables. Also, if you're in the field and you absolutely need power you can always stop by a 7-11 and get some AA alkalines.
Unfortunately Kodak no longer makes them, and there's been a service recall because a few people have gotten shocked while changing batteries. It's a shame Kodak (or anyone else) doesn't make a camera like this any more, especially in the 3MP+ range. There's a chance you could find one on eBay.
*posting anon due to not wanting to break any no blab aggreements from my company*
I work for an insurance company and just got finished working on a project that maintains our digital image management and capturing for claim processing.
We use the Pentax Optio 33L cameras.
And *yes* digital cameras are good enough for insurance companies. I once had a claim adjusted (from another insurance company, not the one I work for) based on a set of digital pictures that I emailed to the field adjuster.
Anyone who says insurance companies won't deal with digital images is feeding you a load of bull. That's *NOT* to say that those images will be admissable in a court of law. I don't know the answer to that one.
*posting anon due to not wanting to break any no blab aggreements from my company*
Skip the digital, just get Polaroids. The instant development saves you from wasting film, and they're not horribly expensive so if they break occasionally it shouldn't be a huge problem.
i had a kodak dc215 which had a metal housing... bet you havent seen that on a digital camera in a while? its only 1 mp but it has survived many a falls. it would be safe to say it falls of my comp desk once a day and still work fine
-- botsex is {grep;touch;strip;unzip;head;mount}
The Olympus 300 claims to be weather resistant, if the scuba rig is too much for you.
I haven't used one, but my old 170 has been great.
My God, it's Full of Source!
OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
I have a DSC-P51 that has been through hell and back over the past year. It is 2.0 MPixels, and cost about $250 new. It about the size of a cell phone, and easily fits in my pocket. Buy a group of used ones at this point, and you should do pretty well.
You might also look into getting the waterproof cases for a couple units if you want to really punish them.
One future, two choices. Oppose them or let them destroy us.
is International Electronic Machines - www.iem.net The Ultimate Rugged All-Digital Camera From their page: IEM's Rugged Camera is designed to acquire motion video in demanding applications where ordinary cameras just will not perform. Designed to operate underwater or above ground, IEM's Rugged Camera is the most versatile imaging solution on the market. Utilizing state of the art image processing algorithms, the camera is capable of providing high resolution images in all weather conditions where ordinary cameras cannot.
I'm assuming the S series is what's otherwise known as "digital elph". If these have anything in common with the traditional Canon Elph, I'd advise caution. I once dropped my Elph from about 1/2 foot on a sandy beach. No impact damage, but a bit of sand got on the lens retracting mechanism which started making horrible grinding noises and died on me 3 days later. Cost me 150 bucks to have the thing fixed. It wasn't even that much sand. I've treated the thing extremely carefully since then. This Elph is 5 years old and their designs might be sturdier, but moving parts are always a point of failure.
They're about £20 now, so just buy a big bag of them, and if one breaks, it breaks, never mind just chuck it. Only thing is that the software is fiddly and Windows-only.
All you need is a Fisher-Price Pixelcam. Cheap, durable, etc. Only problem is that it isn't technically digital (it records on regular audio cassettes...)
If you want something smaller, Olympus has a new series that is water resistant (forget the name, but they are everywhere).
A quick check at B&H Photo-Video (http://www.bhphotovideo.com) shows that a no-name disposable camera with flash is $4 per. I still use real film as well as digital, and Wal-Mart will develop a whole roll for $4 if you can wait a couple of days. If a claim really needs the pic now, then the extra $2 for one-hour is nothing next to legal costs, etc. So, without even looking for bulk discounts you can get your pics for less than $10. All of the cameras suggested were at least $50, and probably won't last too much longer than the disposable on a construction site (if used by the general contractor or foreman as an advertising tool it might, but something that bounces around in the truck until an emergency WILL get beat up). So it would appear that you'd be spending something like 5x for digital over film, and you'd still have the legal questions if you are using the camera for accident documentation.
I can't believe no-one has mentioned these yet. I doubt you need something that's going to handle being in a pocket next to the hammer loop in your carpenters pants. I assume your disposables sit in the glove box of the foreman's truck until needed? If so, the Nikon should work just dandy for you. The lens rotates into the camera body when not in use, all motorized parts are sealed, and all openings (cf card door, USB port) have gaskets. The one downside may be the rechargeable LIon battery, but you're not likely to lose much charge in storage. My 990 has survived nearly a year of accompanying me in a pocket or backpack every day (okay, almost every day) and a couple drops on hard surfaces. You may want to consider one of these.
ceci n'est pas un 'sig'
I have a PowerShot A40 and have been thinking of getting the waterproof case for it... $200 for a $300 camera...
But I guess it's worth it since I love the camera.
2 words: Kodak EasyShare. The DX models are $150, and from my personal use, pretty durable. A couple of those should run under $1000 easy.
Check out Steves Digicams or any other digital camera site for info.
Clever signature text goes here.
Are there any digital cameras out there that are made to relatively cold temperatures? Pretty much every camera I see has 0 Celsius as its minimum operating temperature. I like taking pictures out in the snow, and it'd be nice to not void the warranty when taking it outside. Having said that, I had an old HP digital camera that I used in temperatures as cold as -30 and it worked fine for three years. It still works, but it's kinda flakey now. The one I used most is a Canon Powershot G2, and it has similar temperature specs. But I've been using it in the cold and it hasn't borked out on me yet.
Why isn't anybody suggesting the Casio Exilim EX-S2: It's fast, sealed (as far as I can tell), got no moving parts, and generally well reviewed.
s 2- review/index.html
2 .h tml
I dropped mine in a puddle and immediately picked it up and brushed it off without problems.
It requires a cradle (very irritating, but so easy to use that even my boyfriend can do it) or you can pull the memory card out and use a reader.
http://www.dcresource.com/reviews/casio/exilim_
http://www.steves-digicams.com/2002_reviews/exs
Just what the construction-site foreman asked for!
I have a 2.1 mega pixel Canon ELPH that I take to the field with me(I'm a US Marine) That little sucker can take anything, the metal casing it has is quite durable, I've dropped it several times. Its gotten a bit wet a few times also.
Its very simple to use. A plain point and shot. But you can throw it into manual and control the F-stops and exposure time as well for some night shots.
Put your money where your mouth is -
Canon or Nikon are supposed to be more durable, based on what I've read. I'll be getting a Digital Elph soon.
-ccm
Too much Law; not enough Order.