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Penny Arcade vs. American Greetings Revisited

Jojo writes "After American Greetings got some lawyers to bring down a Penny Arcade strip (M i r r o r) last week, PA is now striking back.. IANAL, but I fear their latest strip might get them into real trouble this time." As always, PA cracks me up, but these are scary events. The banned strip is clearly a work of parody, which I believe is still legal in this country, unless that too changed recently.

102 of 571 comments (clear)

  1. Admirable pluck... by TopShelf · · Score: 4, Funny

    At least they have a smile on their face as they get bent over...

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    1. Re:Admirable pluck... by JerkBoB · · Score: 5, Insightful
      Its always good to see people stand up for their rights.

      Are you offering to foot their legal bills?

      Didn't think so. The image has been archived and mirrored, and nothing AG's laywers can do will be able to stop people from finding the image, even if it's not at the PA site.

      Gabe and Tycho might win a legal battle after spending lots of time and money they don't really have or want to spend, but that seems like a Pyrrhic victory to me, and to them, I think. Tycho said as much in the latest post.

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    2. Re:Admirable pluck... by cptgrudge · · Score: 4, Informative
      Are you offering to foot their legal bills?

      If you truly do want to help, go to the Club PA section of their site and contribute. It's real money like this that pays the bills folks. Plus you get cool stuff every month for being a member!

      I am in no way affiliated with PA. I just love the site.

      --
      Qualitas edurus commercium, nullus penitus net rimor, nullus deus beneficium
    3. Re:Admirable pluck... by dsoltesz · · Score: 4, Insightful
      I'll send a check to their defense fund.

      Attitudes like yours are exactly why rights get trampled. People who can't be bothered, don't want to raise fuss, don't want to become targets for the authorities, etc...

      Penny Arcade did nothing to violate the copyrights or tradmark rights of American Greetings - like mentioned earlier, parody is permitted, and the strip was clearly a parody. Imagine if Mad Magazine had rolled over the first time they were threatened with legal action, or if SNL stopped their knock-off commercials because of a couple complaints from lawyers. Today they target Penny Arcade, tomorrow they're after Craig Kilbourne... once it starts, where does it stop? Comedic impersonators dropping their trade because they're threatened with libel suits? Florida exiling Dave Barry for defamation of state character?

    4. Re:Admirable pluck... by Ark42 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Did anybody catch this link from the PA forumns?

      http://www.somethingpositive.net/arch/sp08202002.g if

      I don't think they ever had to stand up for their rights.


    5. Re:Admirable pluck... by villoks · · Score: 4, Interesting

      And it's also spreading, I think that that this is even better cartoon about the topic:
      Ghastly's Comic

      V.

  2. Lawsuit by obotics · · Score: 2, Funny
    How much will they sue them for? A penny?

    hahahah /lame

  3. Clearly Parody, But.... by John_Booty · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The banned strip is clearly a work of parody, which I believe is still legal in this country

    It's clearly a parody, and would certainly hold up in court (IANAL), but the problem is that the PA guys don't have money to spend defending themselves in court. So it's another case of the "big guy" successfully squashing the "little guy" with the thread of a baseless lawsuit, because the cost of fighting is beyond the little guy's reach.

    --

    OtakuBooty.com: Smart, funny, sexy nerds.
    1. Re:Clearly Parody, But.... by nuintari · · Score: 5, Insightful

      This is an example of where you bite the bullet, pay for the lawyer, and proceed to file a counter suit for personal damages, ie, the cost fo hiring a lawyer to defend yourself from a baseless lawsuit. You get your money back, and then some.

      But most people will just back down, Am Greets is counting on it. Hope the PA guys get some backbone.

      --

      --Nuintari

      slashdot : where an opinion can be wrong.

    2. Re:Clearly Parody, But.... by John_Booty · · Score: 5, Interesting
      This is an example of where you bite the bullet, pay for the lawyer, and proceed to file a counter suit for personal damages, ie, the cost fo hiring a lawyer to defend yourself from a baseless lawsuit. You get your money back, and then some. But most people will just back down, Am Greets is counting on it. Hope the PA guys get some backbone.

      Just a few problems here...
      1. Even if they successfully defend themselves against AmGreet, I don't see how they'd get much compensation for damages... legal costs aside, how much money have they lost here?
      2. You... do have a passing familiarity with the American legal system, right? You know how lawyers cost a LOT of money, and trials take a LONG TIME and get appealed a lot? And you know how you don't get paid until the end, even if you win? I don't know that the PA guys have tens of thousands of dollars sitting around that they don't need for the next couple of years, when the court stuff would be finished and they'd possibly get paid.
      3. If PA somehow lost, they might be totally bankrupt. So they have to weigh the very small potential gain agsint the very large potential losses they'd face.
      Truthfully, when it comes to having "backbone", probably the most effective way to get back at AmGreet is to make them look stupid and maybe encourage a boycott and letter-writing campaign. PA has thousands of readers; I don't know that a PA-reader boycott of AG would really make a dent in their bottom line (in face I'm sure it wouldn't) but if they see it's costing them money and letters start pouring in, perhaps AmGreet will back down.
      --

      OtakuBooty.com: Smart, funny, sexy nerds.
    3. Re:Clearly Parody, But.... by neo · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Uh, I've got some money ($2.50). And I hate corporations. PA is just one paypal button away from a legal defense fund of massive proportions.

    4. Re:Clearly Parody, But.... by goon+america · · Score: 5, Insightful
      There are two elements to this story, I think:

      1. The C & D letter was probably just a empty threat. Would they really take them to court over that?

      2. PA's response to this pufferfish threat was to do something that really could get them in trouble.

      The PA guys stumbled on both points here. There were clearly more sensible ways to deal with this problem.

    5. Re:Clearly Parody, But.... by ninewands · · Score: 5, Insightful
      Quote:
      Just a few problems here...

      1. Even if they successfully defend themselves against AmGreet, I don't see how they'd get much compensation for damages... legal costs aside, how much money have they lost here?

      No problem ... you respond to their petition with an answer, followed immediately by a motion for summary judgment and a motion for sanctions for bringing a frivolous lawsuit. In a matter of THIS nature, there is a stack of caselaw about 1.5 inches high that I will assure you any lawyer who has passed the Bar Exam is VERY familiar with, and ALL of those cases say that parody falls within the realm of free speech.

      2. You... do have a passing familiarity with the American legal system, right? You know how lawyers cost a LOT of money, and trials take a LONG TIME and get appealed a lot? And you know how you don't get paid until the end, even if you win? I don't know that the PA guys have tens of thousands of dollars sitting around that they don't need for the next couple of years, when the court stuff would be finished and they'd possibly get paid.

      I don't know if the author of the parent to your post does or not, but I can assure you I do, and if I were still practicing law, I'd take the representation for court costs + awarded sanctions because I can also assure that sanctions are a GIVEN in a case of this nature.

      Just my $0.02
    6. Re:Clearly Parody, But.... by DragonMagic · · Score: 2, Insightful

      How is it clearly a parody of American Greetings' trademarks? It parodied American McGee, but had no wit nor criticism of American Greetings itself.

      IANALE (either), but there is some basic test to parody, which is that you can't use other people's trademarks or copyrights in your parody if you aren't targeting them.

      --

      Human nature is the same everywhere; the modes only are different. -- Earl of Chesterfield
    7. Re:Clearly Parody, But.... by ninewands · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I disagree. The statements in today's strip are statements of opinion which are not even a valid basis for a suit in libel. They are no different, except for the degree of stridency, than an editorial column in a newspaper.

    8. Re:Clearly Parody, But.... by billnapier · · Score: 4, Funny

      They are going to get the biggest lawsuit once "America Greeting" hears about this...

    9. Re:Clearly Parody, But.... by PurpleFloyd · · Score: 3, Informative

      But they were targeting American McGee, and his method of taking childhood fantasy (Alice in Wonderland, Oz) and adding blood, gore and a bit of S&M. I really don't see how Strawberry Shortcake was a target in this; the joke would have remained the same if it was a different character in the bondage gear. Thus, American Greetings has a leg to stand on in court: PA was not parodying Strawberry Shortcake, and could have just as easily used a different character.

      --

      That's it. I'm no longer part of Team Sanity.
    10. Re:Clearly Parody, But.... by Blue+Stone · · Score: 2, Insightful
      "If you want to get technical, perhaps you could say it's a "metaparody" of Strawberry Shortcake."

      If McGee had done a version of Strawberry Shortarse... sorry...cake, exactly as the PA cartoon, it would be parody, legal, all quite legit.

      If PA does exactly the same cartoon, it's illegal???

      But that would make the law a complete and utter ars[ouch!]

      Oww.... it hurts when you hit reality, running.

      --
      Corporation, n. An ingenious device for obtaining individual profit without individual responsibility. - Ambrose Bierce
    11. Re:Clearly Parody, But.... by 42forty-two42 · · Score: 5, Informative

      Well, if slashdot posted a direct link to the donations page...

    12. Re:Clearly Parody, But.... by 0x0d0a · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It's clearly not an accusation of Nazism. Nazis are used generally today to refer to overly authoritarian viewpoints.

  4. American Greetings.. by grub · · Score: 4, Funny


    "American Greetings.. you will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy." sorry.. watched Star Wars last night.

    --
    Trolling is a art,
  5. Who was the target? by IIRCAFAIKIANAL · · Score: 4, Informative

    The problem is that they were parodying American McGee by using a registered trademark. They clearly weren't parodying Strawberry Shortcake - if they were, it would be more clear cut. Not that we wouldn't see a C&D letter anyways...

    For the record though, I love PA and hope they make it through ok. And you just have to respect em for making a stink even if they did pull the offending strip originally. They're as subtle as a heart attack :)

    --
    Robots are everywhere, and they eat old people's medicine for fuel.
    1. Re:Who was the target? by Visigothe · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Is it totally unacceptable to parody *several* things simultaneously? That seems a bit short sighted, no?

    2. Re:Who was the target? by papadiablo · · Score: 2, Interesting

      They clearly weren't parodying Strawberry Shortcake

      Isn't it possible that they were actually parodying both? That's the impression I got from the comic. They were making fun of both American McGee's game style and of Strawberry Shortcake. If this is the case then there is no way American Greetings would win a lawsuit unless Penny Arcade couldn't pay to represent themselves.

    3. Re:Who was the target? by Silverfish · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Explain how transforming characters from a toy line for young girls into the stuff of male adolsecent fantasy istn't parody.

      As far as I can tell, showing the characters as the exact opposite of everything they are marketed as is a pretty clearcut case of parody.

    4. Re:Who was the target? by Anne_Nonymous · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I think park of the problem is that they drew a parody of Strawberry Shortcake, and then labeled it as such. Thus the copyright holders (American Greetings) are forced to protect their trademark or risk losing it. If Penny Arcade had called their character "Strawberry Sh!tcake" in the cartoon, none of the involved parties would have a problem.

    5. Re:Who was the target? by autopr0n · · Score: 3, Informative

      Parody is well and good, but when you parody someone for profit it's something different. Free Use does allow for parody, but the Courts have generaly heald that when you profit financialy from a parody you need to pay for the rights to what you're mocking.

      What the hell are you talking about? This is absolutely and completely wrong! Can you even cite one case that fits your description?

      --
      autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
  6. Mirror of the new strip by Motherfucking+Shit · · Score: 4, Informative
    --
    "BSD: Free as in speech. Linux: Free as in beer. Windows 10: Free as in herpes." --Man On Pink Corner in #52607549.
  7. Welcome to America... by ZZane · · Score: 5, Insightful

    ...where things are only legal if you can afford to pay as much as the ass suing you to defend yourself in court.

    --
    This sig is worse than my last.
  8. Trouble by Henry+V+.009 · · Score: 2, Funny

    Of course their latest strip will get them in trouble. It's just asking for a slashdotting.

  9. Can someone explain? by DrXym · · Score: 2, Interesting
    a) What does this new cartoon have to do with American Greetings except for the caption on the desk? b) What does the original "American McGee's" cartoon have to do with them either?


    I'm not being dumb here, it is just completely unobvious to an international reader what the issue is.

    1. Re:Can someone explain? by Randolpho · · Score: 4, Informative

      American Greetings currently (I think) holds the copyright for Strawberry Shortcake. If you click on one of the mirrors, you'll see Penny Arcade's take on American McGee's *next* game, in which Ms. Shortcake is quite the little sadist.

      So American Greetings is essently protecting their copyrights to Strawberry Shortcake. Groundlessly, because as the article stated, it's a work of parody. The funny thing is, it's *supposed* to be a poking fun at American McGee. I'm sure PA was prepared for any backlash from them. Getting hammered by a greeting card company probably surprised PA quite a bit.

      And, to top it off, PA is now getting hit with a slashdotting, as if PA didn't already have bandwidth problems!

      --
      "Times have not become more violent. They have just become more televised."
      -Marilyn Manson
  10. Re:This is one for the lawyers to decide by Allison+Geode · · Score: 2

    Q: why can't they say it was a parody of strawberry shortcake in the same vein as american mcgee's parody of Alice in wonderland? A: because then american mcgee would sue them.

  11. "Clearly" a parody? Banned? by PCM2 · · Score: 3, Insightful
    The banned strip is clearly a work of parody, which I believe is still legal in this country, unless that too changed recently.
    Well, IANAL, but frankly it's not clear to me that the drawing is a work of parody. To me, it seems like something that might infringe on somebody's trademark. If I were a big corporation, I might want to test the point in court. What's wrong with that?

    And, "banned"? How so? This is yet another case of lawyers writing a cease-and-desist, and the recipients capitulating. Nobody got "censored" here, nobody's free speech was infringed.

    --
    Breakfast served all day!
  12. Opposite feeling by SnowDog_2112 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I actually came away with the opposite feeling. While the first strip was clearly a parody, it was a parody of American McGee, and not a parody of American Greetings. They'd probably have a strong legal leg to stand on if McGee came to them with a lawsuit.

    However, because they're using a third party's intellectual property in the context of the parody, it's a little fuzzier. Spaceballs parodying Star Wars is cool ... Spaceballs parodying Star Wars with a title character named Strawberry Shortcake might be a different story.

    The more recent strip, however, is clearly a criticism of American Greetings' policies, and seems more obviously "safe" under various free-speech umbrellas than the first one. It's not even using any of their IP.

    I also think it's funnier, but that's just me :).

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    1. Re:Opposite feeling by gpinzone · · Score: 2, Funny

      There was a character in Spaceballs called "Pizza the Hut." Why didn't Pepsi sue?

    2. Re:Opposite feeling by Xzzy · · Score: 2, Interesting

      > However, because they're using a third party's
      > intellectual property in the context of the
      > parody,

      But they raise a good point in the text-based update, which the slashdot story didn't link to.

      Basically there's certain icons that are corporate brands which have, basically, become integral parts of our society today. Mickey Mouse, McDonald's, Microsoft.. I mean the list is infinite in length, an encompasses things from niche appeal to mass appeal. Almost EVERYTHING we identify with in this day and age is some marketing symbol owned by a huge corporation.

      So at what point should us people, who have accepted these icons into our society, be allowed to use them as vessels for communcation without risking legal action?

      If this were a world run by idealism, wouldn't one think that after a symbol becomes so homogenized that it's a part of daily conversation that corporations should lose the right to prosecute for people using it as part of their speech?

      It's something to think about anyways.

    3. Re:Opposite feeling by Jackazz · · Score: 4, Funny
      What if there was a character named Pizza the Hut?

      Gabe and Tycho surely don't want Pizza to send out for them!

    4. Re:Opposite feeling by dpille · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The last highly-moderated post to suggest there was no parody of Strawberry Shortcake got a mixed reaction, too. However, I think a little additional analysis shows this to be the right take.

      To start off, separate the elements. Replacing Strawberry Shortcake with some random public-domain formerly-known-as-wholesome female character makes the same overall point about American McGee. Replace her with, I don't know, Elvira or somebody suitably gothic to begin with, and you're suddenly saying nothing at all about American McGee. For the cartoon to make any sense, you've got to use a good character and make her bad. This is not making a critical comment on the original character, it's merely what the author of the cartoon is doing to the original character.

      So take it the other way- remove any reference to American McGee. Now do you have a parody of Strawberry Shortcake? Not quite- you still need some additional context to get it there, like 'my generation of women has grown up' or 'behind the scenes at American Greetings' or something that would give the drawing the critical or humorous meaning sufficient to be considered parody. Otherwise, a reader would think nothing more than 'gee, that's a wholesome character drawn nasty.'

      Maybe you think that such a drawing is in itself humorous enough to qualify as parody. However, the fair use exemptions require consideration of things like "the purpose and character of the use" of the copyrighted work, which will include things like intended audience. Would you then be telling me you read Penny Arcade for its insightful analysis of 1980's toys for girls? I think American Greetings would have a relatively easy time showing that a top reason the average reader checks it out is for game-related stuff, meaning any parody of their character would be a stretch.

      Seriously, if you read this at Penny Arcade it settles the matter:
      So, American McGee's creative propensities amuse us. What would happen if he turned his dark gaze on one of those sweet girls' toys from the eighties, like Rainbow Brite or Sweet Secrets or My Little Pony? No, I've got it: Strawberry Shortcake.

      If you argue that there is a Strawberry Shortcake parody, you'd be telling me you think it's a parody of all pretty toys from the 80's? I'm skeptical to say the least.

    5. Re:Opposite feeling by ktakki · · Score: 3, Funny
      Damn. Isn't that a sign of the apocalypse?

      You're confusing them with the Four Teletubbies of the Apocalypse.

      I am become Tinky-Wink, destroyer of worlds.

      Sorry.

      k.
      --
      "In spite of everything, I still believe that people are really good at heart." - Anne Frank
    6. Re:Opposite feeling by CTachyon · · Score: 2, Informative
      I still don't understand the original one, though. Can someone explain it?

      There are two parts to the parody. The first is the parody of American McGee's game design proclivities, of taking an idea that's light-hearted (or, in the case of Alice, one normally thought of as such by the public) and turning it into something dark and sinister. The second part is a parody of corporate franchises and the phenomenon of whoring them for money past their sell-by date; just remove the "American McGee's" and add "... as you've never seen her before!", and presto, you have a parody ad that stands on its own just as easily.

      --
      Range Voting: preference intensity matters
  13. Easy Boycott Idea by Guppy06 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Aside from the usual "don't buy anything from these people," it seems the easiest and surest way to get the word out is to refuse any mail with AG's logo on the envelope. Just write "Refused, return to sender" along with a note on the envelope that says something to the effect of "Nothing personal, I'm just boycotting the publishers of this card."

  14. Hasn't this been tested already? by I'm+a+racist. · · Score: 2, Insightful
    Didn't the Supreme Court already test the whole idea of doing a parody? If I remember correctly, it was Justice Scalia who wrote the ruling, but I may very well be talking out of my ass (and I'll admit that).

    The most common place that the general public would've been exposed to this ruling would be in The People vs. Larry Flynt.

    Is there something about this case that makes the ruling used for Flynt inapplicable?

    <rant>
    IANAL (I am not a lawyer).

    Law is boring, unchallenging, and unrewarding. Useless greedy fucks become laywers... it is not a sign of intelligence (despite what the various bar associations try to make you believe). A JD is no better than an MBA or a PhD in a bullshit field (such as literature, various "ethnic" studies, and so on).

    The really smart people (physicists, chemists, et al.) look down on lawyers. You should too.

    It's funny how the people that wrote the rules, and created the pomp & circumstance surrounding the judicial system, are the exact same ones who benefit from it. We should move to a system that encourages people to represent themselves, and drop all this archaic bullshit meant to create a class of people who do nothing but argue the meaning(s) of poorly written rules.

    If engineers wrote specifications like lawyers (politicians ~ lawyers) write laws the Internet would never fucking work.
    </rant>
    --


    Down with Saudi Arabia!!!
  15. Comic Book Legal Defense Fund by Lothar+0 · · Score: 5, Informative

    I looks like they're seeking legal aid from the Comic Book Legal Defense Fund. If the little guy can't defend himself in court against the big boys, then there should be someone else who can. They also protect Japanese and American manga artists and sellers. I joined, and so should you.

    --
    "Anonymous Coward" is for whistleblowers, not unpopular opinions.
  16. How to fight lawsuit abuse in general by Nova+Express · · Score: 4, Informative

    For general information on curbing all sorts of lawsuit abuses across the country, you might want to take a look at the American Tort Reform Association.

    --
    Lawrence Person (lawrencepersonh@gmailh.com (remove all "h"s to mail)

    http://www.lawrenceperson.com/

    1. Re:How to fight lawsuit abuse in general by smoondog · · Score: 5, Funny

      But strawberry shortcake isn't a tort, its a cake!

      Ohhhhhh, tort, torte, I see....

      -Sean

  17. Re:They deserve it. by UCRowerG · · Score: 3, Informative
    It looks like the lawsuit is totally justified. The Strawberry Shortcake comic is damaging to the trademark-holder's reputation, and the US has an enforce it or lose it trademark system.

    This only applies if the user attemtps to pass their own work off as the original. US Copyright law permits the parody of works as long as the derivative can be easily seen as a parody. And since this strip wasn't intended to be seen by Strawberry Shortcake's prime audience (little girls), I don't think American Greetings has an actual case here.

    of course the usual disclaimer: ianal but have seen them on tv

  18. How is it not a parody of Shortcake? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The comic in question is (should I say "was") humorous precisely because it's a parody of Strawberry Shortcake.

    In the post along with the strip the PA people went out and said that they were parodying McGee. But whether they said it or not, they're also parodying Strawberry Shortcake, playing on her goody-goody image.

    The guy on PA makes a good point in his post on their site. Strawberry Shortcake is part of the American lexicon. Just like Gargamel or GI Joe or Speed Racer.

    Referencing these characters shouldn't be trademark infringement.

    1. Re:How is it not a parody of Shortcake? by Steveftoth · · Score: 2, Insightful

      (Quote)
      Referencing these characters shouldn't be trademark infringement.
      (end Quote)
      So basically you want to do away with trademark and copyrights huh? That's what you are saying. As the whole point of Trademarks and Copyright is control. Control over how a name is used in society. Control over how a name is presented, good or bad, black or white.

      Strawberry shortcake, GI Joe, etc.. are not part of the american lexicon, they are a small part of pop culture.

  19. Penny Arcade is, unfortunantely, not protected by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    IANAL, but i do have some experience in these kinds of cases.

    The traditional protection of a work of parody does not, in this instance, protect Penny Arcade. The protections of parody and satire only protect the material being parodied. In this case, the subject of the parody was no Strawberry Shortcake, but rather, American McGee's Alice and Oz games. American Greeting's property was being used to parody something else. Therefore, it's not protected.

    This test has been held up in a number of cases, mainly involving the sale of parody t-shirts and the like.

    1. Re:Penny Arcade is, unfortunantely, not protected by taustin · · Score: 2, Funny

      Anybody who takes legal advice from an Anonymous Coward deserves what they get.

      Anybody who mods legal advice from an Anonymous Coward is an idoit.

  20. NOT clearly a parody by Neolithic · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Penny Arcade was poking fun at American McGee's treatment of other worlds (eg. Alice, Oz), not at the Strawberry Shortcake world. Strawberry Shortcake was a means to an end. It could have been replaced by Pooh or the Smurfs with the same effect. The joke, to me, was the darkening retale of percieved lighthearted, children's stories.

    In his own comment on April 21, 2003 Tycho provides a link to other court cases and specifically mentions "Dr. Seuss Enterprises Vs. Penguin Books" on page three as possible precident that would work against Penny Arcade.

    That is not to say what PA did was and should be illegal. It's simply not clearly parody. It's something that would require extensive (expensive) legal processes.

  21. No biggie by dacarr · · Score: 5, Insightful
    First and foremost, remember that they have merely sent C&D. Next step is a lawsuit if necessary. On one hand, as I've said before, anybody can sue, but whether you win is another story. Now consider this - it's a pain to go to court. Lawyer fees aside, it is a lot of time and energy put into this kind of stuff.

    My thoughts? I don't like the strip - I find it tasteless. But one of the tenets of free speech is to defend even those who you don't like - because if they censor them, it's only a matter of time before they censor you. As such, I'd hate to see these guys go down like this.

    --
    This sig no verb.
  22. Horrible Boycott Idea by Tassleman · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I do believe that if my mother sent me a greeting card, and I REFUSED, RETURN TO SENDER'd it, I would get my ass kicked.

    What a lame ass thing to take a stand on.

    1. Re:Horrible Boycott Idea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      And a card is the only mail I'm likely to get that contains cash, I'm not about to start boycotting cash. :)

  23. Another mirror of the new strip by LAI · · Score: 2, Informative
    --
    :eof
  24. Support PA by DrMrLordX · · Score: 2, Interesting

    If you want to support the guys at Penny Arcade, check

    http://www.penny-arcade.com/view.php3?date=2003- 04 -14

    Which was the former location of the Strawberry Cupcake comic. They have an email address at American Greetings there instead if you have comments. Namely, Rinda.Vas@amgreetings.com

  25. woah there by Joe+the+Lesser · · Score: 2, Informative

    That certainly wasn't work safe! *gulp* ;-)

    --
    "I only speak the truth"
    Karma: null(Mostly affected by an unassigned variable)
  26. Wish they could haul away lawyers for fraud for it by YetAnotherAnonymousC · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I agree. What's a shame is that lawyers get away with these sorts of empty threats all the time. We can't really expect guys like Gabe and Tycho to know when a lawyer is bluffing. It's almost like fraud, in a way, for legal departments to act as if something like this is actionable, when they know it is not.

  27. turnabout can be funny. by BelaHedgehog · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The original strip was a parody of both Strawberry Shortcake AND American McGee. It would have done NO harm to the image of either party, as they are obvious take-offs on aspects of the other.

    Had I been a legal eagle at American Greetings, I would have replied by getting one o' my art guys to draw up a Strawberry-esque Tycho and Gabe with the following layout:
    Panel 1:
    Tycho: We use DIRTY words.
    Panel 2:
    Gabe: MUCK!!
    Panel 3:
    Both: tee hee!

    The only image tarnished by this whole affair is that of the overly-litigious facist dorks who thought a suit would be a good idea.

  28. Re:no by cpt+kangarooski · · Score: 2, Informative

    No, it's both. The S.S. character drawn is derivative of the copyright A.G. holds, even though by no means an exact copy.

    Trademarks are ALSO an issue; possibly a stronger one. But not the only one. See the case involving "The Cat Not in the Hat" for how the copyright side of this might play out.

    --
    -- This and all my posts are in the public domain. I am a lawyer. I am not your lawyer, and this is not legal advice.
  29. Email from American Greetings by rudeboy1 · · Score: 5, Informative

    I did my patriotic (read-rabid PA fan) duty, and wrote Miss Rinda Vas a letter, telling her what bad idea this all was and everything. I got a fairly swift response, including an "original" letter written to the PA staff. Email addresses have been removed to protect the innocent...

    Email sent Wed. 4/23--

    there is no legal action against them ... fyi ...

    -----Original Message-----
    From: RV Rinda Vas (1328)
    Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2003 9:32 AM
    To: Subject: RE: Trademark infringement, misuse

    Thank you for your immediate attention to this matter. We note that the
    cartoon has been removed.

    I am receiving a good amount of e-mails from the penny-arcade subscribers
    asking why American Greetings asked you to pull the cartoon. Unfortunately I
    do not have the resources to respond to them individually so I am passing
    the answer on to all of you. On April 17, 2003, American Greetings received
    a complaint about the cartoon namely that it was "creepy" and "offensive."
    Thereafter, we asked you to remove it.

    Note that the target audience for Strawberry is young females (indeed young
    children). And we do receive complaints from parents and the like over
    cartoons like yours.

    So there you have it.

    -----Original Message-----
    From: Ryan
    Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2003 3:55 PM
    To:
    Subject: Please Cease and Desist

    Dear Rinda Vas-
    I am writing to you, as I am sure are many others, to implore you to stop
    your legal action against Penny Arcade and its creators. As you may or may
    not be aware, the actions your company has taken against Penny Arcade has
    already publicized the original event much more than the comic's web site
    ever would have. Furthermore, several websites have made note of this
    issue, spreading the issue to more people, not usually associated with the
    normal Penny Arcade crowd. Feel free to read the articles posted on
    http://slashdot.org, and other such sites. At Slashdot, you will see the
    forum that follows every article. Within said forum, you will note a
    resoundingly negative response to your decision to take legal action. There
    is even a petition out to boycott your company. The last time I checked
    that site, the petition was drawing near the 10,000 mark, and climbing.
    I am not going to threaten you, or swear at you, as I am sure many others
    are doing, regarding this issue, but I have to advise you that, from all
    evidence available, what you are doing does not seem like a smart move. I
    think you might do well to look into options for reaching a quiet agreement
    with the owners of Penny Arcade. I am sure they will be happy to make this
    legal action go away with as little public notice as possible. My advice to
    you is to try to save face, as your company stands to lose a large amount of
    business and public appeal by pursuing this petty issue. Thanks for your
    time.

    Ryan

    --
    Raging in an online forum won't do anything for the world around you. To see change, you must take action.
    1. Re:Email from American Greetings by JackMonkey · · Score: 5, Insightful

      So someone was offended by a PA comic and complains to American Greetings???

      Here's the problem with America: people have no sense of responsibility for themselves. If you have an issue with a PA comic, complain to PA, don't complain to American Greetings so they will fight your battle for you.

      AG should have no say over what PA posts on their site unless it legally has no right to be there. You can't hold one group accountable for another group's opinions.

    2. Re:Email from American Greetings by mojotooth · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Well then it looks like AG is taking a relatively pragmatic stance on this. I suppose that's a good thing, they don't appear to be hiding behind "virtues" or "ideals," simply that some customers were freaked out and asked for them to take action. Now as to the veracity of that claim... Seems dubious to me.

      If I see a picture of Ronald McDonald used in some nasty cartoon that my kids should never see anyways, I'm not going to complain to McDonalds about it. That's totally misguided.

      Also, RV hasn't responded to your well-put point about the whole thing backfiring on them. I feel secure in speculating that there are more people pissed off at them NOW, than were pissed off about the Strawberry Shortcake cartoon in the first place.

      --
      -- Mojo Tooth : exploring our world as only an idiot can.
    3. Re:Email from American Greetings by Canar · · Score: 2, Informative

      Very interesting. So AG knows it's an 800lb gorilla, and is using that to its advantage. I'd say that PA should put the comic back up and see them in court, hell, even see if they take legal action at all. From this e-mail, it seems as though they weren't taking the first step toqwards a lawsuit, they were more like testing to see if a simple letter would stop it all.

  30. Not surprising.. by JPelorat · · Score: 2, Funny

    Unfunny is standard fare for Penny Arcade.

    --
    Hokey statistics and ancient misconceptions are no match for a good thought in your head, kid!
  31. Censorship there is by aepervius · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The censorship is : you risk to loose or have a lot of money to be "frozen" for a time, to get a lawyer to defend you. If you do not have the deep pocket of a big company then this money would be a murderous move on your budget.

    Thus you have no choice. Temporair ruin and blocking of asset (if oyu win AFAIK you get your money back) or take back your opinion/strip/whatever.

    Censorship isn't only governemental and law enforced, and you do not need a gun to force censorship on somebody. Merely inconvenience them to the extrem, put them in a difficult position, which nmight make their life a hell and most except idealist will bow. This is also censorship.

    --
    C. Sagan : A demon haunted world:
    http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0345409469/
    visit randi.org
    1. Re:Censorship there is by Chris+Burke · · Score: 4, Insightful

      However, in this case, there is an avenue available: The Penny Arcade guys could represent their side of the case in court. Ergo, no censorship has taken place. That they don't have the money to do so is a different issue.

      So if I tell you to stop talking under threat of me shooting you, I'm not really censoring you since you always have the option of dodging the bullet. That you can't dodge bullets is a different issue.

      I'm sorry, but in the case of theory (they could fight it in court) versus reality (they don't have the resources to fight it, even if they would eventually win), reality is what determines if censorship is taking place.

      The mentality that something being technically possible is equivalent to it being possible has been used in the past to remove peoples' rights. Literacy tests in the south were used to prevent blacks from voting, even though technically they still had that right. Just like that was found to be an illegal restriction on their right to vote because of the reality that virtually no blacks were allowed to vote, this is a case of censorship.

      Or in short: Free speech that costs more than you can afford to exercise isn't free, is it?

      --

      The enemies of Democracy are
  32. CAD letter? by dextr0us · · Score: 2, Insightful

    just because someone sends a ceist and desist letter, doesnt that mean they have to take you to court? and if your work is clearly a parody, couldn't you just go to court and defend it yourself? get a media law text book, cite some sources, etc...

    --
    "Martha Stewart can lick my Scrotum......do i have a scrotum?" -- Sharon Osbourne
  33. Re:This is one for the lawyers to decide by cqnn · · Score: 2, Interesting

    > A: because then american mcgee would sue them.

    B: For stealing a game idea before he had a chance
    to license the character from American Greetings.

    IMO, the funniest thing about the SS parody was;
    in an age when Grand Theft Auto and Postal 2 can
    generate interest among gamers, a naughty
    Strawberry Shortcake might actually sell.

  34. Re:It's all been done... by Mantorp · · Score: 2, Funny

    I'm not clicking any links with goats in them

  35. $.02, ok , let's do it! by itzdandy · · Score: 2, Interesting

    if everybody submits their $.02, then maybee Penny-Arcade can get the legal help they need. I have submitted a "story" for just this, to set up a paypal donation fun so that those interested can give a little to help a lot. Not only do i really love these guy's comic, but I very much wish to retain free speech and fighting this crap is the only way to retain it.

  36. Fortunately you are not a lawyer by xenocide2 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Because if you were, then you'd be taking far more time to make yourself familiar with the particulars of the case. Indeed the work was a parody. However American Greeting does not represent American McGee, the video game developer who is/was being parodied. American Greeting takes issue with their Stawberry Shortcake character. Mike and Jerry have a far more difficult case to argue if they want to keep their picture online. Notably, McGee has only been trolling the works of the public domain, specifically, Alice in Wonderland and The Wizard of Oz.

    The question isn't about parody and fair use, but whether Strawberry was parodied. I personally don't see it in the work. In fact, if I were PA I'd simply remove the cartoon and revise it such that a far better case could be made that it parodies both McGee and whatever character that best adopts to these legal requirements.

    Mike and Jerry have been fairly quiet about the particulars of it themselves, having been wisely told by legal advisors with more wisedom than yourself, or at least more current experience. The only thing they do say is that it isn't very clear -cut, and they're right.

    --
    I Browse at +4 Flamebait

    Open Source Sysadmin

    1. Re:Fortunately you are not a lawyer by Moryath · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Of course it was.

      The reason American McGee goes after the PARTICULAR public domain works he does, is that WE ALL GREW UP WATCHING THEM. Think about it -- until two years after Home Alone was out, what movie was played EVERY SINGLE THANKSGIVING? Why, the Wizard of Oz of course. What was one of the fundamental Disney movies that everyone loves seeing and showing kids to this day? Their take on Alice in Wonderland, naturally.

      American McGee makes his living raping the public domain (er... actually literally) just as Disney does, and he goes after the things that we STILL remember that are in the public domain. Without something we all remember, the gag doesn't work. Further, it has to be something he can twist really, really far.

      Parodying Disney stuff might have worked, but that's inviting legal action far more surely than parodying some piece of crap like Strawberry Shortcake. Besides, there are artists who already make a living drawing Disney toons having sex, so that's been done.

      So they parodied something we've all been taught was "sweet" and "innocent." American Greetings, on the other hand, happen to be a bunch of stiffs who can't take a joke.

      Hell, even the Hormel people realized after their first court filing that Monty Python had done a pretty good job with the spam song and got a sense of humor. Time to ring the phones of American Greetings off the hook to give them a whack with the metaphorical cluebat.

  37. Worst. Boycott. Idea. Ever. by finkployd · · Score: 3, Insightful

    It seems the basic concept of a boycott is lost on people. Folks, the idea here is to deprive the company of revenue. Your Mom already bought the card, it will not hurt the company one bit to send a card back that she sent you. That is as stupid as purchasing French wine and dumping it on the sidewalk in protest of the French. They already sold the wine could care less if you drink it.

    If your goal is to educate your Mom (or whoever else sends you cards) about AG, perhaps you can find a less offensive and heartless method of getting your message out.

    Finkployd

  38. Re:Nazi reference highly inappropriate by zdislaw · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Even if that were not true, I find simplistic and offensive the equating of anything that people think is violating their rights as "Naziism". American Greetings, whether or not their suit is moral, are nowhere near Nazis. It's a lazy shortcut that relies on a certain perception of what a Nazi is that ends up watering down the whole concept. I don't think the Holocaust should be watered down.

    --
    bad sig...no donut.
  39. Re:Would have more sympathy of it was actually fun by BrainInAJar · · Score: 2, Informative

    Unfortunately explaining a joke ruins it, but you didn't seem to get it in the first place.

    American McGee's "Alice" was released a couple years ago. It was Alice in Wonderland (a sweet, charming, etc childhood story), but much MUCH darker. Like, the part of max payne where he goes crazy darker.

    A couple weeks ago, American McGee's "Oz" was annonced. It's going to be the same dark style as Alice, but based on the Wizard of Oz (another sweet childhood story). So American McGee is a brand that makes dark covers of childrens' work, hence the strip.

    Oh, and this is pure genious. (probably because it actually HAS happened to me)

  40. Said it before: simple boycott by Galvatron · · Score: 3, Informative
    I said this the first time this was posted, but for those that missed it: if this upsets you, don't buy American Greetings or Carlton Cards for Mother's day (a bit over 2 weeks away). That's it, pretty simple. Maybe it'll have an impact, maybe it won't. But it's SO easy to do, that we ought to at least make that much of an effort.

    If you don't normally buy cards anyway, well good for you, you don't need to reply to this telling me about how you're superior because of it. Maybe you'd like to buy a Hallmark card anyway, just so that AGC's market share as a percentage of money spent on greeting cards this month falls, maybe not, up to you. But for those of you who were planning on buying a card for your mother anyway, how about checking the brand on the back first?

    --
    "The question of whether a computer can think is no more interesting than that of whether a submarine can swim" -EWD
  41. Re:Bah by ryanvm · · Score: 5, Funny

    It's not funny. Violates the cardinal principle of comics.

    I think the author of Family Circus would like to have a word with you.

  42. Scalzi's Take by SpyderPSU · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Freelance writer John Scalzi brings up an interesting point that I haven't read here:

    American Greeting's argument here could be that Penny Arcade's image is using the Strawberry Shortcake name to parodize American McGee's tendency to appropriate young female literary characters for his dark and bloody video games, not Strawberry Shortcake herself. Therefore, using Strawberry Shortcake for that purpose is not covered under parody. It's an interesting assertion.

    However, I wonder if this line of reasoning, if indeed it is the one American Greetings is using, is as strong as it might appear initially. This line of reasoning works only to the extent that Strawberry Shortcake herself does not fit the rubric that the Penny Arcade is parodizing, namely that Strawberry Shortcake is not a young female literary character. In fact she is, the main character in dozens of books: Strawberry Shortcake: Meet Strawberry Shortcake, Strawberry Shortcake at the Beach, Strawberry Shortcake: The Berry Big Storm, and Happy Halloween, Strawberry Shortcake are just some of the titles in her oeuvre. And in an interesting literary note, in several of these titles, Strawberry Shortcake is either planning or having a party of some sort or another, which makes her activity in the parody (planning a party with her friends) not an atypical activity for her. Although to be fair she's not typically whipping her friend Plum Pudding at those parties. But that's part of what makes it a parody.


    I don't know if this point holds any water, legally speaking, but it's interesting. You can read the rest of the article here

    -Spyder

  43. Re:Stupid nazis... by zdislaw · · Score: 2, Funny
    I can't believe you just invoked the name our our savior in such a manner. I am just so completely offended and angry that I can't wipe the spit off my monitor fast enough. Please...the air....I can't get a breath. What's happening to me? Oh my god. He did it. "DumbWhiteGuy777" made good on his threat. He killed me. I've never felt so dead.

    And to think that you thought I'd freak out. I just thought the strip was stupid and lazy. Not so much funny either. Oh shit, I forgot I'm dead.

    --
    bad sig...no donut.
  44. Call Larry Flynt by coyote-san · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Like many people, I have a strong love-hate relationship with Larry Flynt and Hustler magazine. I love his willingness to fight to protect our rights from attacks by the easily offended, even while finding much of the content of his magazines personally repugnant.

    Anyway, one quick phone call or email should end this matter real quick. How many people have seen this online strip, vs. how many people would see similar strips in that magazine? How much money is AG willing to spend to harrass a couple small-time artists, vs. how much money is it prepared to spend defending itself from a company that's successfully argued Freedom of Speech cases before the Supreme Court?

    Call me crazy, but I don't see a lot of crossover in the consumers of <i>Hustler</i> and sappy greeting cards so the magazine can fight hard and fight dirty if AG wanted to fight them. Hell, I wouldn't put it past them to launch their own lines of parody greeting cards (real greeting cards, not just jokes in the magazine). I mean, where else are you going to find the perfect Valentine card for the girl who dumped you for your best friend, or for your former boss?

    --
    For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong. -- H L Mencken
  45. How to support them by Oroborus · · Score: 2, Informative

    If you love their comics or just want to support their stand, Penny Arcade does take donations.

    At the bottom of the ClubPA page (http://www.penny-arcade.com/clubpa.php3) there's a link to their paypay donation box.

    And as an added bonus, no matter what size of donation you'll get access to the most excellent "Over Easy", one of the best comics online for both artistic merit and style, highly recommended!

    C'mon, toss in a buck for the most excellent comic, you won't be dissapointed!

  46. Parody doctrine on the bar exam? by ArsSineArtificio · · Score: 2, Interesting

    In a matter of THIS nature, there is a stack of caselaw about 1.5 inches high that I will assure you any lawyer who has passed the Bar Exam is VERY familiar with, and ALL of those cases say that parody falls within the realm of free speech.

    Really? They don't have parody doctrine on the bar in my state, and I can't think of many law schools which require a First Amendment course.

    --
    All employees must wash hands before seeking equitable relief.
    1. Re:Parody doctrine on the bar exam? by jedidiah · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Mebbe their all mediocre...

      There are only 3 states that don't use the national standardized bar exam. Among other things, this exam includes a section on constitutional law.

      So, a required constitional law class would actually be highly sensible (along with torts, civil procedure & such).

      BTW, Ohio isn't one of the 3.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
  47. Most Admirable... by WebCowboy · · Score: 2, Funny

    ...and I'd bow down before the gods of parody (once I stopped laughing my ass off) if I were to see PA's take on American McGee's treatment of the Smurfs....heh heh

    C'mon...Smurfette--a lone girl smurf amongst a community of 99 boy smurfs? "They're only a couple apples tall but it's still one big blue bang"

  48. Re:Flood em! by martyn+s · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Email them here: http://www.americangreetings.com/customer/emailus. pd
    Email american greetings parent company here:http://corporate.americangreetings.com/contac tus/index.html

    Or snail mail them here:
    American Greetings Corp.
    One American Road
    Cleveland, Ohio 44144

    Here's a form letter :)
    Fuck you, you nazi bastards. Yes, you're nazis. Haven't you ever heard of parody? It's a LEGALLY protected form of speech, one of the few remaining. But I'm sure you corporate nazi whores will take care of that.

  49. The issue is Strawberry Shortcake, not the style. by Mr+Z · · Score: 5, Informative

    According to the USPTO website, the Strawberry Shortcake mark is owned by "Those Characters From Cleveland, Inc." Those Characters From Cleveland appears to license their marks to American Greetings or is a subsidiary. I haven't found a page that explicitly mentions their relationship. (Note: I think USPTO query links 'expire.' You can always search again using TESS.

    According to this link, it looks like American Greetings, Those Characters From Cleveland, and Rinda Vas have previously gone after alleged violations of their marks. (In the linked page, the case appears to be a reasonable attack against a domain squatter.)

    --Joe
  50. Re:and neither am I by xenocide2 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I really cannot see this parody of S.S. I'm not suggesting that they choose from an increasingly dwindling public domain, but rather actually parody the two of them. If you want to assult mcgee and 80s corporations, do so, and make it unambiguous. Say something like "from the people who've whored out your childhood memories for twenty dollars and american mcgee" or otherwise indicate that you have some sort of critical point to make. Not only have you doubled your satirical milage, but you've covered your satirical ass.

    --
    I Browse at +4 Flamebait

    Open Source Sysadmin

  51. Amer. Grtngs: P.A. Series by A_Non_Moose · · Score: 5, Funny

    You sent us a Greeting
    That said Cease and Desist
    So we give you "The Finger (TM)"
    (we couldn't resist)

    The "Red Bitch" has been mirrored
    Like DeCSS
    We just thought we'd share
    (or is it confess)
    .
    .
    .
    . /open cover to greeting card
    .
    .
    .
    .
    Fuck You

    --
    Have you read the moderator guidelines? Well, have you, PUNK? (and I want a Karma: Gnarly option)
  52. This has also happened to Nmap ... AG must chill by fv · · Score: 3, Funny
    I can understand how American Greetings could be a little uncomfortable about imagery of Plum Pudding getting her ass smacked by Strawberri Shortcake, but they need to chill out. A while back someone took my Nmap Security Scanner and created cartoonish parody that is 100 times more disgusting and offensive!

    Yet I didn't sue. I just got a chuckle at the sick mind who would create such a thing! AG should take note.

    -Fyodor
    Concerned about your network security? Try the free Nmap Security Scanner. Version 3.27 was released today

  53. Re:and neither am I by Chris+Burke · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Say something like "from the people who've whored out your childhood memories for twenty dollars and american mcgee" or otherwise indicate that you have some sort of critical point to make.

    I don't like that, simply because it mandates form in order to qualify for protection as a parody. Why does it have to be like a bad political cartoon where everything is explicitly labeled just so that any retard can see that you're trying to make a statement? I can see the exact remark you are suggesting be plastered on the image in the image itself. Is it not satire if it isn't obvious?

    I suppose in the future we'll all be required to put "This is a work of parody of Strawberry Shortcake (tm American Bumcrammers, all rights reserved) and American McGee's Alice (tm American McGee, all rights reserved) and of Gaming Culture in General (tm Electronic Arts, all rights reserved)" in minimum size 14 font just to avoid being insta-sued by legal webcrawlers.

    --

    The enemies of Democracy are
  54. Re:YO BUDDY by Ataru · · Score: 2, Informative

    No, it's libel.

    In general, and IANAL, and I am oversimplifying, and I am from the UK so our legal systems only share a common ancestor, etc,

    slander:
    - transient, for example:
    - speech
    - holding up a sign
    - pulling stupid faces
    - internet chat rooms (maybe, and distributing logs would be libel)
    - damage must be proven to have occurred
    - except in certain cases, for example:
    - accusing someone of a crime
    - saying someone's got the lurgy
    - calling a woman a slag (only works for women)
    - saying someone is shit at their job

    libel:
    - permanent, for example:
    - newspapers
    - magazines
    - books
    - comics
    - films
    - web pages
    - usenet
    - damage is presumed to have occurred, so the claimant need not prove it

  55. Re:Polymer City by wikthemighty · · Score: 4, Informative


    Polymer City Chronicles is doing it too...

    --
    "There are people who do not love their fellow human being, and I _hate_ people like that!" - Tom Lehrer
  56. Re:and neither am I by Emrys · · Score: 2, Informative

    Because you aren't free to just make any work you want that includes someone elses copyrighted material and get away with it on the grounds that you claim it's parody. Works which incorporate someone else's IP are derivative works, and they're what copyright law in the old-fashioned sense makes illegal. There are exceptions, such as parody, where people can make derivative works for the purposes of exercising their maintained right to criticize something. Copyright is basically a legal restriction on free speech, but is itself restricted from banning speech that's expressive/critical/etc. as opposed to commercial in nature.

    For the SS cartoon to be free from a charge of being an unauthorized derivative work of the Strawberry Shortcake(R) property, it needs to actually be making a protected statement about SS, American Greetings, etc. It really isn't. It's making a statement about American McGee.

    This is why it's not a clear cut case of parody. Unfortunately people are being so quick to yell foul that they're missing this pretty obvious point.

  57. You are wrong by 0x0d0a · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Political cartoons are commercial, and there are many commercial satire companies.

    Whether or not someone makes money has absolutely nothing to do with whether something can be used under the parody exemption.

  58. Re:and neither am I by caouchouc · · Score: 2, Insightful

    parody - A literary or artistic work that imitates the characteristic style of an author or a work for comic effect or ridicule.

    You'll notice that the definition itself doesn't specify any particular target or purpose other than comic effect and ridicule.

    PA did imitate the style of the Strawberry Shortcake characters, as well as the style of American McGee's fairytale-turned-horror games.

    They were specifically making fun of American McGee for rehashing Alice with another fairytale, and the parody included the Strawberry Shortcake characters for comedic effect.

    Their maligned comic is a parody, by definition.

  59. Re:American McGee didn't make PA's "mistake" by Maul · · Score: 3, Insightful

    This is a very interesting point. American McGee might have stupid ideas according to some, but he darkens tales that are in PUBLIC DOMAIN.

    I think this is a perfect example of you how Disney's lobbying for de facto indefinite copyrights has destroyed what copyright was supposed to be about in the first place.

    Baum had the opportunity to profit off of his Oz works back in the early 1900s. His books were popular, and now the stories have fallen into a place where they have literally become a staple fairy tale, As far as I know the original stories and concepts themselves are now PUBLIC DOMAIN, where they SHOULD BE.

    But now things that should enter public domain will never be, thanks to Disney. Whenever Mickey is in danger of becoming public domain (like he should be right now), Disney will pay off some congressmen to extend the copyright laws again.

    If this continues, 100 years from now people we will have no NEW stories like Oz or Alice in Wonderland that they can work with freely. Everything will still be copyrighted because the copyrights will now continue to be extended. Every story people grew up with will be still be owned by Disney or another faceless media corporation.

    --

    "You spoony bard!" -Tellah

  60. Isn't Strawberry Shortcake a dessert by Descartes · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I know it's a little late now that there are like 400 comments but how can American Greetings trademark something that's already part of the language? I'm pretty sure people were calling that delicious dessert "strawberry shortcake" way before AG invented that stupid character.

    1. Re:Isn't Strawberry Shortcake a dessert by sql*kitten · · Score: 2, Insightful

      know it's a little late now that there are like 400 comments but how can American Greetings trademark something that's already part of the language? I'm
      pretty sure people were calling that delicious dessert "strawberry shortcake" way before AG invented that stupid character.


      It's all about context. You can use the same words as trademarks in different contexts without any overlap. For example, once upon a time there were VAX vaccuum cleaners and VAX computers, and there was no legal problem there, since there was no danger of a consumer mistaking one for another. So, you could happily write a book called "Strawberry Shortcake" full of recipes if you wanted to, or manufacture a range of cooking implements under that name, but if you featured the Strawberry Shortcake(tm) character in your recipe book, or placed images of that character on your products, then you would be in trouble.

  61. Hang on a minute by Lurgen · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The guys from Penny Arcade won, regardless of what Am Greetings thinks...

    Thousands of extra eyeballs saw their strip thanks to Slashdot. Even if a tiny percentage of those viewers went to the official site, and a similarly tiny percentage spent some money, I would expect that Penny Arcades page impressions, clickthroughs (they have such amazingly discreet advertisements, other sites could learn a lot from them), and subscriptions have boomed at least a little bit.

    Worse for Am Greetings, they failed miserably at supressing the image. It's available to anybody who looks for more than a minute or two, google is returning mirrors to it now - so AG managed to burn up some more customer goodwill without achieving anything positive.

    Why bother trying to sue them to get permission to repost the picture? A victory like this can't be awarded by the courts, it takes several million slashdot readers to make such a win possible :)

    Congrats to Gabe and Tycho for a top-notch site. I'm not affiliated with it in any way, but I read it just about daily. I hope they gained a lot from this little event.

  62. Real reason by Jookey · · Score: 2, Informative

    The reason Penny Arcade got an cease and desist letter was because "Strawberry Shortcake" is a copyrighted name. The current strip cleverly does not show "American Greetings" but obscures the 'n' and the 's' to make it "america greeting" wich is not a copyrighted name. What PA should have done initally is simply altered there strip so that "Strawberry Shortcake" was misspelled, then stuck there toungs out at AG's lawyers.