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12" PowerBook Wobble?
RedWingsSuck asks: "I recently purchased a 12" PowerBook from ADC. I absolutely love it, but I have noticed an interesting little issue. As it warms up, other users have said the case gets as hot as 120 degree F, it develops a wobble on a flat surface, like a table or something. As it gets warmer, the wobble gets worse. When I first noticed it, I thought I had lost a rubber peg from the bottom, but apparently my problem is not that simple. While on spring break, in San Diego, I went to the Apple Store there, and I was told that a few other people have had this problem, and that if I had purchased the PowerBook from there, they would have replaced it with a new one. Then I called Apple Care, and they told me that they were just informed of this problem. Has anybody else had this problem, if so, what did Apple say about it?"
Cool Pad.
If the heat is enough to warp the casing, I'd hate to think what it might be doing to some of the other components.
They said that they hadn't heard of any problems with it (are all the feet there?) but if I wanted to bring it in, they'd be happy to have a technician look at it.
Really, though, it's a fairly minor annoyance, though it's probably the biggest "problem" I'd say the machine has. I've had it for about a month now.
Obliteracy: Words with explosions
I've had a similar issue. So have many, as the Apple forums indicate. Slowly the rubber feet have been coming off and recently the last one fell off so my powerbook is completely with the rubber feet. It's since stabalized, but now it slides around a little more easily. I called AppleCare and they will replace the rubber feet for a $6 charge when they have the rubber feet marked for the 12" powerbooks which will be soon. They mentioned that the rubber feet are exactly the same as the 15" model, and if you can get hold of those, either by a friend ordering through applecare or a 3rd party vendor, that should work. I've also read about people completely replacing the rubber feet with ones they bought at a hardware store.
Okay, this is a real long comment, but since you brought it up, here is my 12" Powerbook story.
I support an open-source network management product, and a friend of mine turned me onto OS X (which is one of the operating systems we run on). I was just about to buy his iBook when the new Powerbooks came out. I fell in love with their styling, and I "switched" big time (loaded Powerbook, iPod, Soundsticks, warranty, etc.)
It took a month to arrive, and everything about the packaging, the look of the machine, etc., was pure Apple. If I were to ever buy a new Mercedes, this is the feeling I would hope to have (only more so).
But the honeymoon didn't last long. While it worked great on my lap, when I put it on the desk it would wobble. Cold or hot (and it does get hot), there was an obvious wobble.
Then I noticed that whenever I pressed down with my right hand, there would be a "click". Closer examinination found that the "palm rest" on the right side of the mouse was actually bent. You could see it and definitely feel it when you ran your finger along the ridge between the mouse and the keyboard. If you close the unit, the little rubber pad on the left side of the screen met nicely with the rest of the laptop, but there was an obvious gap on the right side. Finally, if I put the spare battery in place of the original (which goes in on the right side) it seemed to require a lot more effort than it should to get it in.
Conclusion: Bent laptop.
Having purchased the warranty, I called Apple, and they told me that, yes, they knew about the wobble (they also told me it was worse on 17" Powerbooks) but that they didn't know what they were going to do about it yet. As far as the bent palm rest, they told me to take it to the Apple Store and have them send it in.
At the Apple Store I dealt with some rather nice people, but became very worried when one said "oh, they'll say this is abuse."
Abuse? I hadn't had the thing long, I normally take care of my laptops very well (I travel a whole lot, so they have to work) and I have taken even better care of this unit. Luckily, that never became an issue.
So I sent it off, and they kept it for over a month. I would call in weekly and hear things like they were waiting for parts (one time I heard the word "mainboard") but eventually it arrived back on my doorstep.
It was the same laptop I had sent out, with the same wobble issue, but someone had spent a lot of time getting everything to fit the best they could. The bend is gone, but you can still see that things don't quite fit well on the right side, the screen still has the gap, and if you look under the keys in front of the mouse, there is some sort of plastic film that is buckled - as if it doesn't quite fit.
But these things are too minor to do without my laptop for another month. I took a razor and trimmed one of the rubber feet down to fix the wobble, and I'll just live with the other problems.
The downside for Apple is that I will be hesitant to buy another product from them. For much less than the $3500 I shelled out, I could have gotten a small Linux laptop that would function to meet my needs. The reason I bought an Apple was for the "fit and finish" and quality I used to associate with them, and I am very disappointed. I still like my iPod, though.
My name is Tarus. I'm a consultant. And I'm a sucker.
that's why I stay away from v1.0 anything. The 12" is a new design(as is the 17"), the rev 2 & 3 machines should fix any issues.
They already now about this
Well to keep it short the reader basically explain how to BEND THE CASE so it no longer wobbles.
Also see this thread on Ars Technica that is about the 12" and its wobble issue.
I hope you die painfully and alone.
I don't own a PowerBook (only a G4 Cube), but from what you describe, it sounds like the different expansion rates of the materials that make up the case are great enough to cause the bends, much like how a bimetallic strip bends at different temperatures. If the laptop were out of warranty, I'd suggest that you loosened the screws that hold its case together, and turn the computer on. If the case stays straight that way after it has warmed up, tighten the case back up immediately, and you should be OK. If it still wobbles, you might have to loosen the PC board inside.
In Soviet Russia, Jesus asks: "What Would You Do?"
I've found that propping the left rear corner with a nickel works just about perfectly. Not under the rubber foot, just slid in until it presses against the side of the rubber foot.
I am surprised to find that this is actually a problem with the laptop, I had just assumed that it was my cheapo desk that was warped. Although I hadn't noticed this problem with my last laptop, it had much bigger, more flexible feet that I assumed had compensated for the sucky desk.
While we're on the topic of Powerbook annoyances, I am disappointed that they removed the battery backup capacitor from the 12" Powerbook. My friend has a 15" Powerbook, and he can put his computer to sleep, remove the battery, to put in a fully charged one, and the computer does not have to be shut off. They apparently removed this feature from the 12" Powerbook, what a shame. That was one of those tiny but oh-so-nice features that made me want to buy an Apple rather than a PC.
Random and weird software I've written.
Flame bait?
Take a loaded 12" Powerbook, 20 GB iPod, keyboard, mouse, USB hub, 3 year warranty, Soundsticks, airplane adapter, spare battery, and spare power supply and it adds up. As I mentioned, I switched hard.
Stupid? Yes. Bogus, no.
I work for a center that has one of the 12" Powerbooks and coming out of the box, the computer wobbled. After giving it a minor twist, it seemed to fix the problem, but it definately comes back after it heats up. Now when it cools down though, the wobble does go away, so it appears a little twist may solve the problem. Although the only reason I did that is because it isn't my computer and it is under warranty.
Its because of the lcd.
Liquid crystals are moving inside the display.
I've had my 12" PB for a little over a week now, and it hasn't exhibited this problem at all. The only problem I've had with it was the "B" keytop wouldn't stay attached to the keyboard. I brought it in to my local Apple store and they replaced a broken plastic bit underneath the keytop in about 30 seconds (and for free).
Which hard drive do you have? Its the hard drive that generates the heat folks complain about. I have the 60GB hard drive, and I've measured 110 degrees (F) at the worst. It doesn't really bother me since my hand tends to rest on the outside of my palm, where the case is much cooler, but I can understand it'd be bothersome for others.
If what you need is a "a decently fast Unix-ish laptop with 802.11b," an iBook would more than fit the bill, and not have the heat or wobbly problems of the 12" PB. iBooks are also a helluva lot cheaper than a PowerBook.
For me, I don't really see too much appeal for the price in a PowerBook. I mean, yes, they're incredibly machines, but I am perfectly happy with my 500 MHz 12" iBook. I've had no problems with it for the two years I've owned it, and it was pretty darn cheap to boot. I can safely say that this is the best computer I've ever owned.
And I still end up without much of a dent in the wallet, along with the side effect of getting a very nice, tiny, fast enough machine (naturally, the newer 0.9-1 GHz iBooks are faster) that does everything I need to do well. Having come from Linux/x86 prior to this, I also get a bost in productivity in a number of areas.
Besides, who in their right mind buys computers with a loan? Maybe I'm just safe with my money, but I never buy anything that I can't afford with real money, a house or car excluded. (and I have no car, thank the lawd)
Working toward a usable PDA environment in the spirit of Newton OS: Dynapad
120 Degrees Fahrenheit? I think I finally figured out how Natalie Portman got hot grits!!!
Yours in Christ,
Doctor Reginald Scooby
Slashdot Trolling Academy
I don't have the wobble, but a related problem: my battery isn't flush with the rest of the chassis. It was flush when I pulled it out of the box, but the after the first time I pulled the battery off, it never reseated properly afterwards. Two trips to Apple haven't resolved the problem, so I've learned to accept the millimeter edge around the battery.
That said, I still love this thing. It's my first Mac since the Classic II, and it's an amazing little box. It gets warm, but certainly never 120 degrees F. Also, Apple was amazing getting it back to me both times I sent it in. They not only got it back to me in less than 72 hours (that is, I gave it to Airborne on Monday at 3 pm and got it back Wednesday at 11 am), but fixed several things I didn't complain about (a scratched lcd housing which was my own fault and the latching mechanism which came from the factory withh a little play in it). I'd still spend the $1900 on it without a second thought.
Cthulhu loves you.
I know there are some definately high-end thinkPads, but all the friends I've had with thinkpads had little things flake out or fall off on them. They also were very heavy and very thick. Granted, they were all i-Series, which I understand isn't the top of the line...
Working toward a usable PDA environment in the spirit of Newton OS: Dynapad
I'm pretty sure it's the rest of the universe that is warped. Just stick a towel under one corner. If you don't understand, then go shove a fish in your ear.
I've always wanted a powerbook (the first one I really lusted after was the 3400), and ever since they introduced the tiBooks (now aluminum books, I hear) I've wanted one even more. I like the design, I like the weight and thin profile, etc. I won't be getting one anytime soon though. I have heard lots of stories of the case chipping, wobbling, warping, etc. And those things get hot! I have known a few people with tiBooks before and I noticed that using it on your lap can get pretty toasty. Normally Apple makes really great quality hardware (albeit too slow, but that's another topic :-) but I'd be too scared to purchase a metal PowerBook for fear of some of the problems I've heard about.
Maybe they ought to switch back to some form of plastic (i.e. pre-tiBook)? I just couldn't spend almost 2k or more with the risk of winding up with a laptop that gets too hot and starts to warp its case.
sig
I'm not sure if they've made them for the non-15" PB's yet, but I _HIGHLY_ recommend grabbing yourself one of those aftermarket Ti Handles (as seen here).
My whole development team has 15" PB's and they "suffer" from heat issues (no wobbly stuff reported) but that has all but disappeared since using the handles. (It gets the laptop up off table allowing for a bit more cooling).
Now the fan only kicks in when doing a monster Fink compile for an hour or three.
$0.02 (CDN)
While we're all trading experiences, I'll share my thoughts on my TiBook 800Mhz.
Executive summary: I love it. It is the best machine I have ever owned.
Caveat: You need to add a few things to it for it to become truly great.
Heat was/is an issue with this laptop as with all powerbooks. Fortunately, the TiBook doesn't have the drop back screen so you can add a tote 'n tilt handle to give the undercarriage lots of room to breathe. Believe it or not, but this handle means that my system fan now only ever comes on if I play a 3D game or DVD. Otherwise, I run cool and silent. Say that about your 12" AlBook if you can!
Airport could be better. If this becomes an issue, you can get a PCMCIA wifi card to boost signal. No worries there anymore.
Other than that, I tweak this heck out of OS X using themes, CodeTek Virtual Desktop, Fruit Menu, ASM and other great haxies.
In all cases, I believe (as one tends to) that my additions ought to be part of the base system. But that's ok. At least I can add them. So far I haven't seen a viable, portable solution to the heat, wobble problems on 12" 'books and that's a shame b/c they look so cool, and I honestly believe the Apple Powerbook line is the very best laptop line on the market. Certainly the TiBook is.
My powerbook is only about a week old. (12").
I havent noticed any wobble when using it, but i also havent really encountered any "scorching" tempuratures yet. (ie, yes, it gets really hot, but i can still hold my hand on it)
I have noticed that the plastic lining around some of the edges doesnt quite meet the metal shell, but thats a small issue.
But as it stands, I havent seen or felt any real distortion in the case.
This
Just to help keep reports balanced, neither of the 12" PowerBooks I've owned have had the wobble problem. They get pretty hotsometimes (although resettin the PMU seems to help with that sometimes), but mine always sits flat.
My friend has the exact same problem in reverse. His 12" TiBook wobbles like crazy when it's cold, but once it heats up, it gets level.
I guess there is something to be said for the plastic casing on my iBook. Totally unrelated, I heard that the iBook casing is bulletproof. Is that true?
All I really need is a decently fast Unix-ish laptop with 802.11b.
How about one of these?
Mine's like a tank. I take it everywhere, use it heavily every day and it still looks and feels as good as the day I bought it.
Bonus feature, the Airport antenna is in the screen, and there are no other bits, doors, levers or switches poking out.
It also doesn't cook my lap, like my friend's 15" powerbook did while I was playing Medal of Honour. heh.
That's just where the Reality Distortion Field(tm) meets Euclidian space. Think of it as a karmic wave front. :)
I originally posted this about a month ago, but nothing has really changed. I called Apple Care, and they said that they were still looking into it. Hopefully, something will happen soon. As far as the heating goes, my AiBook doesn't really get overly hot, I have just read reports of them getting up to 120 F. I love this little PB, even with the wobble, currently I just stuff my screen protector under it, but I don't think that I should have to. I have read the suggestions to "bend" it back into shape, but I'm not brave enough to try that.
Apple is an early adopter:
Cube - lots of complaints about "scratches" and manufacturing issues.
TiBook - manufacturing issues.
AiBook - manufacturing issues.
Consumer computer hardware mass-produced on a pretty quick turnaround to market might impact QC a little. The fact that they have a relatively low market share doesn't help matters.
But that is the Apple way. There are dozens of instances where Apple has looked at the market and said decided that they wanted something cool that wasn't out there. So they build some "new thing" (insert your favorite cool Apple thing here).
We all know what happens next:
1. "mainstream" computer media sniggers, predicts Apple's pending demise (I think Dvorak popped a prolapse when he found out the iMacs were floppy-less).
2. Wintel Intelligencia (oxymoron?) nod their heads in agreement.
3. 18 months later it's a BTO option on the Dell site.
4. Some asshat goes on about this "new thing" being the reason why Wintel is superior to the Macintosh (I actually heard someone say this about QuickTime in a company annual meeting)...
5. Approximately 6 months after that, it's supported in the latest Linux kernel. Sort of. FreeBSD support comes sometime later.
I was an early adopter on the TiBook as well. My rubber feet fell off. Apple put them back on. 3 dead pixels? LCDs have dead pixels on occasion. Sorry, but you won the bad pixel lottery. They happen.
I've had nothing but good service from Apple over the last 15+ years and 5-6 boxes I've purchased ( I've gone through at least 2X as many PeeCees - glad they're so much cheaper...).
Too much of your post sounds like a troll, but I figure I may be wrong and my blood sugar's a bit low, so I bit. HAving said that, I have a real problem believing that you have a warped case and they won't fix it/swap it out/ etc.
I've never had the kind of issues you've had with Apple Support. I *did* have a lemon DP G4 that went back about a half-dozen times: they replaced it and they took really good care of me on the trade up. When I got the feet replaced on my laptop, they took care of a bunch of other minor cosmetic stuff, one of which was replacing the lid on my Tibook. If you're going to buy a laptop from Apple, buy the extended warranty. It's always paid off for me. Whether or not I've had the extended warranty, I've never had the kinds of poor quality problems your talking about, nor have I seen them in the hundreds of Macs I've worked on or around.
It sounds like you'll be a lot happier on a Linux laptop.
- learn to swim.
I set up a yahoo group for i2 inch powerbooks a few days after I ordered mine in Feb. We have been talking about this issue off and on for months now. Some have taken theirs back and gotten new ones, one person had an apple store employee actually "bend" it back into shape, others talk about the battery being the issue. I am on the phone now trying to get a missing rubber foot replaced through Apple Care. I must say, like many others have, this is the only issue I have had. I love my PB12. The yahoo grou is here, please join if you own one.
12inchPowerBooks
-Jim
IANAL. I am -- knock on wood -- a happy iBook owner, and I make no claim either way about the veracity of these suits. I'm merely noting a point of similarity; draw your own conclusions:
http://news.com.com/2100-1040-983350.html
I think I heard somewhere that 120 degrees is the point where aluminum gets pliable, and after a while, picking it up after running it for a while can cause some slight bends. I haven't heard about the 17 incher having problems, but that is probably due to the huge amount of surface area on it. Summary:The 12in is so small and powerful, that this pushes the aluminum to the edge. If anyone has any metallurgy experience, please shed some light on this.
i just wanted to chime in and let people know that i love my 12" g4. i actually sold my 15" 1ghz powerbook on ebay because it was too noisy. i then picked up this little beauty and a samsung 17" lcd. couldn't be happier.
initially i was worried about the heat the palm rest was generating while it was recharging, but the 10.2.5 update took care of the excessive heat. and it now gets warm when plugged in and just slightly tepid while on battery. certainly tolerable.
i also had a problem with my airport card dropping reception. but i reseated the card and reset my basestation. one or the combo of both fixed my problems.
i keep looking for a wobble or warping or feet coming off or uneven track pads buttons or faulty displays or some other problems that i've read about. but nothing has shown up in two months of constant use.
i don't know if i'm the exception or that only people with bad exeriences post. the latter seems more likely. obviously people that are having problems are going to complain while those of us who are happy are just gonna keep using their machines.
the moral is, if you are considering a 12" powerbook but are discouraged by all the bad reports consider that some people (the majority?) are perfectly happy with their 12" g4s.
Here's my powerbook 12" story... It started on March 4th, and it STILL hasn't ended. I go to my University's (Queen's) computer store, interested in buying a 12" powerbook. They have one in stock, and reluctantly unpack it from the factory case so that I can look at it. Its tiny size, fit, and finish challenge and excite me, so I pull out my credit card, ready to buy! But on the way out, the saleswoman notices a scratch on the screen - a very large one. They try cleaning the screen (with a swiffer pad), but it doesn't come off. Not willing to pay full price for damaged goods (or willing to wait for this unit to be repaired), I reluctantly place an order for a different unit. Three weeks later to the day, I get a call saying the new unit is in! I hurry to the store and pick it up... I take it to work, and show it off to all the co-workers. I notice that it doesn't sit flat on tables, and wobbles noticeably... Then, I notice there's a scratch on the screen of this unit as well, near the right hand side, vertical down almost the entire length. Disgusted, I call the Campus Computer Store and tell them this. They "look into it", and ask me if there was a protective film on the screen of the unit when I unpacked it. There was not, just a piece of foam between the keyboard and the screen. The salesman said that there was a recall on such units, as this film is supposed to be placed on the unit during assembly so that the screen isn't scratched during assembly, and that if I return the unit, they'll happily order me another one. But not until I return it. And it'll take another 3 weeks. Apple is a reasonable company, and I hoped they could do better than 3 weeks. So I called them, and talked to their hardware support people. After about an hour of whining, they recommended that I take the computer to the local Authorized Service Provider for repair, rather than replacement of the unit. At the time, this was the best Apple was willing to offer. This did not sit well, as that would make the unit the equivalent of a factory reconditioned machine by the time I'd get to use it... If I had wanted a factory recon, I would have bought one and paid less for it. Anyway, I called the service provider to inquire, and they said that it would take 7 weeks at least for the parts to come in, as a supply chain for repair parts has not yet been established. They also pointed out that the screen is assembled with glue, not screws and snaps... So to replace the LCD panel, they'd have to pry it apart and re-glue it, resulting in something that would not be like the original unit at all in terms of fit and finish. I noticed this machine had other problems, too. It got very hot, and randomly locked up (not a kernel panic, a complete freeze). I wasn't able to run the quick-restore DVD, as it kept freezing during the restore process. The very next day I returned the unit, which did not even boot by this time, as the quick-restore was a failure and refused to work. The store was good enough to give me a full refund while waiting for the replacement. Three weeks later, the store called to inform me another unit was in. This would be the THIRD 12inch powerbook I'd come in contact with. I paid them, and excitedly took the unit home. Imagine my suprise when THREE WEEKS LATER, the THIRD unit had a severely scratched screen as well! Again, no film on the panel, just the foam spacer. The likelyhood of this machine and the one from three weeks previous being "next to each other" on the assembly line seemed very remote, so I called Apple again. At first, the hardware tech strongly recommend that I repair the unit. Out of general principals, this suggestion offended me. I explained the story to them again, calmly, claiming I didn't understand how this could have happened again (as I really didn't). I told them about the recall the saleman told me about, and stressed that this was the THIRD time this had happend to me. The woman transferred me to a customer relations specialist... The customer relations people are great! They have the power to get things
Fortunately, as the owner of a later revision 15" TiBook I only get case deformations upon re-entry into the earths atmosphere.
-- "Can't sleep, clowns will eat me!"
Yeah I know had a lot of problems with mine, but they were _all_ generic problems with the design. :/ Not everyone had all these problems, but then not everyone will use their laptop nearly as much I used mine.
e.g. The DVD drive ruining discs, weakness in the white plastic frame due to overstress, the keys coming of the keyboard when I typed, excessive heat, origional power supply litteraly coming apart, hard disk dying within 2 months (cheap Tosh braned HD, as opposed to IBM Travelstar, which I replaced it with myself), insane amounts of paint flaking, unsafe amounts of head distribution, battery charging issues, sleep (& wake from sleep) issues, etc.
I'm not bitter about them, they were to some extent unforseable problems that would be difficult to spot without real world usage and you expect a few problems with cutting edge 1st versions of complicated consumer products.
The annoying part for me is that despite addressing: the keyboard, dvd drive, hard disk manufacturer, power supply, paint, the the strain put on the plastic frame, the head dissipation, the sleep/wake from sleep issues the new modles _still_ have more problems that (AFAIC) is reasonably acceptable.
Interesting comments from a big Apple reseller here in London when I was talking to him about getting a new Apple laptops just a few weeks ago...
He said the 15" models still have loads of issues due the size/weight/design compromises and recommended against getting one. He said the 17" ones were much sturdier and seemed less prone to strain/breaking but that they had had a few problems already with it, but that the smaller 12" seemed to be best (which I agree with, it's clearly much more sturdy, more like an iBook).
The iBook design is not as nice asthetically IMO, but it's *much* tougher.
Since you work or will be working in the computer industry, that laptop is one of your most important possessions. Treat it like your most valuable tool and keep it under warranty.
I see the extended warranty like health insurance for your computer. $100.00 per year for health insurance on your laptop is a great deal.
seSales, Point of Sale software for OS X.
my 2 cents: I bought a Pismo 2 years ago for around $2200 US but did not go for the AppleCare. Like any well-used laptop it's gotten its share of problems. Right now it's sitting, unused in my bedroom because (A)the battery holds a charge for all like 45 minutes now (B)the power adaptor came loose from the constant wear and tear of plugging it in to charge (C)the DVD drive is the known defective 8x one that won't mount a disk but about 1 in 10 tries. Repairs would easily cost $600-800 for those from Apple. *
:( )
My Sawtooth G4 has worked, flawlessly, for about 4 years. No problems at all, but then again it just sits on my floor.
I would say buy the AppleCare if you have a laptop. A year or two down the road when your battery is dead, or the optical drive is funky, and the screen has the keymarks on it, and etc the $300 AppleCare can easily fix those.
(* Maybe it's not too late to get AppleCare? I doubt it.
,
faeryman