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Xine Gets Native Sorenson3 Decoding
gooofy writes "Freshly (im)ported from ffmpeg, xine 1-beta12 finally has native support for Sorenson SVQ3 video. This means that you're finally able to
watch the latest quicktime trailers on any xine supported hardware platform, not just on x86. Other goodies in this release include support for ogg/theora, playback of cd/dvd over the network, improved handling of mpeg-2 files
(resyncing) and many detail improvements."
1: One less reason to run a Windows platform. 2: No more annoying "don't you want to buy this" ad when you're trying to watch a new trailer.
-A.M.
Pimpin' all the Karma Hoes!
Great! Now all it needs is an interface that doesn't suck majorly. Have you tried to use their configuration dialog? What were they thinking?
main(c,r){for(r=32;r;) printf(++c>31?c=!r--,"\n":c<r?" ":~c&r?" `":" #");}
Does it work on OS X?
Oh wait... I've got quicktime. Sorry.
Doh totally misread the subject line, that's it I'm off to bed.
If I can get a Mozilla plugin, then it'd be really great. It'd be nice to see all those movie trailers that I can't watch now.
Yes, all those macos-on-ppc people are having so much trouble with that.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Could droping in its source tree the new version ffmpeg in lieu of the one that comes with it make Mplayer support native Sorenson 3 too? Or would some additionnal modifications be needed in the Mplayer source?
There are 2 kinds of people in this world: Those who write in decimal and those who don't
...If the RIAA gets its way, it will have an evil bit. (however, it probably won't be documented in an RFC)
Most movie trailers and stuff that i'd need quicktime for are embeded in webpages. It's a pain in the ass sometimes to find the url for the file you want and download it so you can play it.
Liberty.
I think you read the article wrong... Whis is a native implementation of Sorensen 3 that can run on all supported platforms (including x86). It used to be that watching a Sorensen 3 encoded video involved the use of Win32 DLLs (either through WINE, or later by directly accessing the DLL). Now it isn't needed. So indeed one _can_ watch a Sorensen 3 video on x86 using the lates version of xine without any nutty DLL hacks.
The time of day is 29:33.
not JUST on x86 (emphasis mine)
Will mplayer be able to take advantage of these native sorensen codecs also? While mplayer plays quicktime files, they are not native and they aren't great, (specifically once you play 1 mplayer will crash if you attempt to play a second). Also, I am pretyt hooked on mplayer by now.
I do security
And I thought getting codecs and random AVIs to work on Windows was bad...
Mplayer has been able to play Sorenson Quicktime for a long while now... it can use the QT .dll's with its own .dll loader.
Acually the quote said "not just on x86"
.. AND others ... essssh. ... can't wait for gentoo to .. hmmm .. think I'll write one just the same ...
So it works on x86
all in all very nice
have an ebuild for this
bain
Sanity is a majority vote.
The post said not JUST for x86. That means it will run on anything.
Many times an open source media player will use the closed source (binary) driver via wine or something similar. Which means that it will only run on the architecture it was originally compiled for, in most cases x86. This is a complete open source implimentation; therefore, a completely portable implimentation.
Could ffmpeg be used to make free software for Linux which can compress video in the Soreson 3 format? This would be great considering that the alternative would be to use expensive Apple software on a Mac.
There are 2 kinds of people in this world: Those who write in decimal and those who don't
Who are these guys? I'm amazed at what they're pulling off, encoding and decoding all these proprietary formats. This isn't the kind of stuff that some bored college student can churn out on a lazy Sunday afternoon. And how do they manage to decode a format like Sorenson that isn't even publically documented (AFAIK)?
Thanks for telling me everything I already knew, I really needed to know that.
- Sherman
Will it play the audio on the trailer for The Matrix Reloaded?
WARNING: there is a trojan on your
Is SVQ3 another one of the MPEG4-based codecs? I ask mainly because I'm wondering how far the ffmpeg had to go out of their way to add support for it.
opps....ah well....everyone can just ignore that post :)
:p
i just did a search on emerge....if you turn on the option to merege unstable builds in your make.global you can merge the source and compile it.
Besides....the entire point of ports is to compile the software...you shouldnt be using ebuilds unless you your building something like mozilla or open office
First of all, Xine is not a web calendar written in PHP. It's written in Perl.
And Mplayer isn't free, you have to download it.
Sheesh.
What's amusing is getting modded up when you confuse headlines...
Does any one know how it ranks on progressive DVD benchmarks?
This benchmark has lots of screen shots of correct and bad behavior: DVD Benchmark
Twice, even.
actually .. only the ebuild for xine-lib-1_beta11 is in portage, and I can compile it myself .. which I will while I am writen the ebuild for it ;P
:)
That way I get both
bain
Sanity is a majority vote.
" ....and they say a Microsoft monopoly doesn't stifle innovation? at least the PS2 has a Linux kit which will allow some development to take place. "
The PS2 Linux kit it almost the equivalent of write-only memory. You can fiddle with it at home all you want, but the only way you can get your software running on anybody else's PS2 is if they have the $200 Linux Kit as well. Meanwhile, by getting the PS2 classified as a 'computer', they enjoy less taxes/tariffs in Europe.
"Derp de derp."
to get all this free publicity? The ffmpeg and xvid people do all the hard codec work and the mplayer people support every codec, container format and play even severely broken files, setting new records for tweakability to get it to excel even in really bad circumstances (it can play DVD in real-time on my EPIA-M 9000, using software AC-3 with stereo downmix; go ahead and read all the reviews that say it can't be done even under Windows where they have hardware MPEG-2 acceleration and use an external S/PDIF decoder).
xine is always lagging behind. Their main "innovation" is that unintuitive and ugly GUI. WTF were they thinking when they created a GUI that is unusable without all those tool-tips?
I have no idea whom the xine people had to bribe to get all this slashdot exposure, because it sure as hell didn't earn it on technical merit.
so there
Wait, isn't this breaking the law? Why the hell are we encouraging people to break the law?
Wouldn't it simply be better to encourage people to NOT use the Sorensen codec? I mean, it's not as if you die if you don't get to watch The Matrix advertisements, you know?
Slashdot is jumping the shark. I'm just driving the boat.
mplayer *cough cough*
Yeah, lame troll... Xine has much better performance on older PC's, and also has much better synchronization for NTSC MPEG-2 such as DVD's. Mplayer is more of a bleeding edge player, is great for transcoding/encoding stuff, and gets new codecs before Xine, but it is really jerky on NTSC MPEG-2 (dunno 'bout PAL). I prefer Mplayer for encoding DVD's to AVI's in Linux, and watching DIVX and DV AVI files, and I prefer Xine for DVD's and its support for DTS passthrough. But, if I'm going to use a separate program for file/DVD playback, I might as well just use Ogle for DVD's, since it now supports DTS and Dolby Digital passthrough. Xine supports seeking in streams though, so it has one advantage over Ogle.
You know what? All the programs are great, and I really like having a choice. Now if only I could figure out if it's legal to sell HTPC's that have Open Source DVD software pre-installed (with source code included).
Oh, BTW, all three are Free and free.
sigh
/usr/local/lib/win32/qtmlClient.dll, /usr/lib/win32/qtmlClient.dll /usr/local/lib/win32/qtmlClient.dll, /usr/lib/win32/qtmlClient.dll
Found xine library version: 1.0.0 (1-beta12).
XServer Vendor: The XFree86 Project, Inc. Release: 40300000,
Protocol Version: 11, Revision: 0,
Available Screen(s): 1, using 0
Depth: 24.
XShmQueryVersion: 1.1.
-[ xiTK version 0.10.2 ]-
-[ xiTK will use XShm ]-
-[ WM type: Unknown ]-
main: probing video output plugin
load_plugins: failed to load video output plugin
main: probing video output plugin
load_plugins: failed to load video output plugin
main: probing video output plugin
main: probing audio output plugin
xine_interface: unknown param 10
xine_interface: unknown param 10
xine_interface: unknown param 10
xine_interface: unknown param 10
vo_scale: invalid ratio, using 4:3
vo_scale: unknown aspect ratio (0) in stream => using 4:3
wine/module: Win32 LoadLibrary failed to load: qtmlClient.dll,
qt_video: failed to load dll
wine/module: Win32 LoadLibrary failed to load: qtmlClient.dll,
qt_audio: failed to load dll
So, I decided to give Xine yet another try after reading this article. Not because they are innovative (they're not), but because I'm bored. So I downloaded and built xine-lib and xine-ui. Tried to play a DVD. Got a nice message "Upgrade your front-end to see the error." There was a "More Info" or "More" or something button, so I clicked it. Death to my X server. Xine strikes again. Jesus Christ, when will I learn? I'm never leaving MPlayer.
Man do I NOT miss Linux.
Says the PFY as he fires up MPlayer(having downloaded the illegally-distributed Windows DLLs from the mplayer authors) to watch The Matrix trailer. I seem to be saying this a lot on slashdot lately, but, get a grip!
Linux has half a percent of the desktop market. Apple, with MacOS, has something like 4-5%, I think? Maybe 8% tops? Why exactly -should- Apple give a hoot about Linux? They're not THAT big a company, and they're busy as hell(have you stopped to think about how many software products they now produce? OSX, OSX Server, Quicktime Streaming Server, Quicktime, iTunes, iPhoto, iMovie and Final Cut Pro, iDVD and DVD Studio Pro, iCal/iSync...the list is ENORMOUS.) They don't, quite frankly, have the time to screw around with, essentially, something that can't even be called "competition"(Apple's products have always represented the complete antithesis of Linux - coherence, ease of use, simplicity, elegance...)
I've owned Macs for years, and no-official-quicktime-or-wmp-player doesn't bother me. Why? Because there are clever(if sometimes annoying) people out there who figure out how to do it themselves. While Apple hasn't released a player, their normally vicious legal department has, by its lack of action, practically applauded mplayer for using the quicktime-for-windows DLLs. Apple's not gonna look a gift horse in the mouth, basically. They get their cake(quicktime support on linux for those who really want it) and they get to eat it too(nothing to develop, maintain, or even support). Besides, the DLLs are getting used the same way a Windows application would use them- about the only thing Apple could get the mplayer guys on would be distributing the DLLs alone and without license.
You say, "oh, but Apple just doesn't care enough". Apple cares about lots of little things, including people making themes that look like Aqua. Their legal department has no qualms about making a mountain out of a molehill if something displeases them(this is actually one of the things I hate about Apple the most- their legal department head is a total psycho-policy-bitch, completely the wrong thing for a cute-and-cuddly computer company. Lady, get a job at MS or something, you may be making a hit in the legal world, but you're pissing off thousands of Apple customers and techies with every move you make.)
Please help metamoderate.
You're gonna have to just download the whole movie using BitTorrent to see and hear those scenes...
Sorry.
-- My Weblog.
so to sum up your rant
.5%. shipping OS, i would agree. but since when has that matter to OSS
"i have no idea what they did or how they accomplished it, so therefore it must be illegal. Apple is the bestest company in the world, so cute and cuddly, Steve jobs is the second comming."
linux has more desktop usage than
I like the new lib because it finally does full-screen DVD playback right.
"Learning is not compulsory... neither is survival."
--Dr.W.Edwards Deming
I'm compiling now, can't wait to try it. How does it look compared to using the windoze dll's? The matrix trailer lags and skips like mad with those. Hopefully native support means smooth video playback now?
The Mplayer team is completely, totally, illegally distributing Quicktime(and WMP, and Real, and...) DLLs- no licenses, no nothin'. I'd be amazed if the licenses prohibited linking to the libraries, but I'd be willing to bet they do prohibit unauthorized(and especially the "partial, license-less" kind of unauthorized) distribution. I was NOT speaking of the xine team- go read the post again.
So it's okay to beat up the 'bad guys' like Apple and Microsoft, but get pissed when someone violates the slightest part of the GPL?
Please help metamoderate.
Check the Mplayer website, the Mplayer project no longer has a leader. Its not certain if the project will survive.
For being an open standard, it sure took a long time to get a (Free) Sorenson player.
blah
...because Apple actually want the MPEG-4 standard to succeed over WMV. For example, the latest Animatrix episode used their MPEG-4 codec, and not anything from Sorenson.
Additionally, Sorenson and Apple are not on the friendliest of terms at the moment, following a suit and countersuit being filed in relation to the codec used in Sorenson Squeeze.
Take a look around the web. You can shared your PS2 kit games using a small bootloader on a memcard and special distrobutions to run off certian discs as well.
And there's the old 'greyware' way.
"I wouldn't mind Quicktime so much if it didn't take over my entire machine, though. Even RealPlayer can be kept contained if you pay attention to the settings."
Eh? QuickTime Player prompts you to update each time you launch it. RealOne player installs a message center and randomly tells you about things they're selling.
QuickTime Player does nothing compared to RealOne.
My favourite part of xine is the plugins for DVD nagivation.
Personally I prefer using mplayer because it's faster and higher quality. It's also got DirectFB and Vidix drivers so I can output the signal to my TV while not in X.
However my girlfriend isn't overly keen on typing a long list of switches to activate mplayer with the right video driver, input source, chapter and track, and xine's DVD Navigation shines in this area.
I don't know why the mplayer developers insist that it is virutally impossible to incorporate dvd navigation into mplayer. Maybe they are right and it is really hard to do.
Anyway I just read that xine supports Vidix and Vesa drivers, so hopefully it actually works on mine AND dvd navigation also works without X. Anyone (Radeon users pissed-off at no tv-out under X) gotten xine working in this way yet?
Even in the United States, reverse engineering for "interoperability purposes" is legal.
Not if the end result is unauthorized distribution of an implementation of a patented invention; then, it's called "patent infringement". Or do you claim that Sorenson owns no valid patents on methods used in its codec?
Will I retire or break 10K?
I don't think Sorenson has ever been an open standard. QuickTime is, I believe; but then, it's quite possible to encode a movie in QuickTime _without_ using Sorenson. Sorenson is just one of the many possible codecs usable in the QuickTime "wrapper" format. Same goes for AVI and several other formats; they just wrap the several sub-encodings together. So you can encode both audio and video using two wholly unrelated formats, or whatever. (not a multimedia format expert...)
So when do we get some Realplayer video & audio codecs? I'd love to save a .rm audio stream (say the BBC "Listen again" streams) as an mp3 for listening on the move, and I'd love to watch some real videos in full screen without changing to 640*480 and carefully moving the window
Or VP3, since anyone who has Sorenson has VP3.
Especially because VP3 is free software now.
Will I retire or break 10K?
Yeah, I can't believe [the maintainers of Quicktime and Windows Media Player] won't spend $$$millions to support .00000001% of the desktop market.
Exaggeration. FreeBSD and Linux together have at least 2% of the desktop market, and I don't think it'd cost more than a few thousand for a few engineers at Apple or Microsoft to throw together a plug-in for Mplayer or Xine.
Will I retire or break 10K?
The typical "Lunix fanboy" would shun Photoshop for Linux, and bellow about how much better the Free GIMP software is.
Yeah, until the time he has to do print work. See, GIMP can't do print work because GIMP can't do color space conversion because acceptable-quality color space conversion is patented and GPL software such as GIMP ordinarily cannot accept patented methods.
Likewise, who's to say the Xine developers won't get hit with a patent lawsuit?
Will I retire or break 10K?
Before I ask, I have to say that I did STBM --went through their webpages and looked at the stuff, FAQ, Documentation etc.
The webpage says that it supports formats such as RealMedia, WMV7 etc. See their documentation.
They also seem to be interested only in opensource codecs etc. See this FAQ entry.
Correct me if I am wrong, aren't RealMedia and WMV7 format proprietary? As far as I know, Microsoft or RealNetworks haven't released any open-source codecs of the above. Nor do they seem to have released proper format specifications (as Adobe does for PostScript or PDF).
How do they then support these formats?
They do not seem to be interested in MPlayer like hacked-up binaries or the use of Windows DLLs (see the FAQ entry referred to above).
Plus, I just downloaded the source. It is a measly 600KiB-ish. How do they manage to put all this in here.
If I examin the soruce may be I could get some of these questions answered, but I have to post these questions before the Slashdot story dies out and no-one reads the post.
Thank you
GrimReality
2003-05-12 04:05:00 UTC (2003-05-12 00:05:00 EDT)
Use the player "Media Player Classic" - it supports Quicktime, Real, Shockwave, etc., all through their web browser plug ins. I haven't had a problem with it, and it lets me fullscreen nearly everything.
You can get it here:
http://www.gabest.org/mpc.php
Good luck!
BBK
So, is it now possible to play a MOV file in windows media player? Or is there now a generic codec that would allow that based on what Xine has done?
I find it very strange that quicktime doesn't let me save movies I downloaded. I found a trick though where I set my windows temp directory to a network drive, disconnect from the network, and then rename the TMP files quicktime creates. It's kind of silly that I have to do this just to save movie trailers to my computer.
So it's okay to beat up the 'bad guys' like Apple and Microsoft, but get pissed when someone violates the slightest part of the GPL?
How many GPLed programs are causing a serious problem with deliberate file format lock-in?
Xine has much better performance on older PC's, and also has much better synchronization for NTSC MPEG-2 such as DVD's.
No. You may have it set up incorrectly -- tweaking mplayer to get the last ounce of performance out of it can be a long journey. I've never seen an out-of-box precompiled version that was set up optimally for some given hardware. However, I can assure you (I use mplayer on a P2-266) that mplayer quite outperforms xine, given a sufficient amount of tweaking.
Are you sure you switch to OS X?
I thought your type (see your homepage link) were the Windows 98 SE type.
there is linux and win32 dll support for it in both mplayer AND xine. plus, they support ra, rm demuxers, as well as streaming RTSP (which bbc uses). as a matter of fact, i am using mplayer at the moment to convert .ra to mp3s...so i am not quite sure what your problem is :)
BSD is for people who love UNIX. Linux is for those who hate Microsoft.
I have mac and I NEVER USE QuickTime, Videolan and Mplayer are much better. With QuiclTime it is not possible to play a movie full screen (that is, if you dont want to pay $30 for the pro version). If you want to play a DVD in QuickTime, you have to pay other $20. Videolan does all this for free and much more (Vor example it can play DVDs from all zones).
.ogm (ogg) movies.
I LOVE the keyboard shortcuts in Mplayer, especially navigating forward and backward with the arrow keys, I can skip whathever stuff I want withot using the mouse. Compared to Videolan and Mplayer, QuickTime is an inferior product.
Another shortcoming of QuickTime: if you want to play an Xvid or Divx file you have to convert it first. Also, unlike Videolan, QuickTime does not play
The best players for MacOSX, Videolan and Mplayer, which are much better than Quick Time, also come from Unix/Linux. Porting Xine to OSX would be great!
No, no, no! That's COPYRIGHT LAW. Nothing like fair use exists for PATENT LAW.
Please see http://www.mec.ac.in/events/rms/trans_2.html for an excellent speech by Richard Stallman on Software Patents. "So the most important thing for you to start with is never mix copyrights and patents as topics. They have nothing to do for each other." (There's also an audio recording of the speech on gnu.org, but I'm unable to locate it at this moment.)
Mplayer. http://www.mplayerhq.hu
Plays everything you throw at it. Just install all the codes. Has packages for *nix and W32...
For WinZealots, try googling for "nimo codec pack", it'll plug all sorts of good codecs in for you to play just about everything and play it BETTER than M$ wants you to be able to play it.
Just don't download and install the latest M$ media player. It's DRM spyware and you'll wish you hadn't installed it. BAD...
Windows media player 6 plays EVERYTHING you need if you install the nimo package..
Great, I can watch QT movies on *nix, except that no *nix distros work with my soundcard.
I am sure it will work, if not on OSS drivers it will work with ALSA.
[...] random stupid talk [...]
All it is is a rehash of developments that have alreay been in place for decades. Jesus, go invent something new already.
I don't quite understand what you are saying here, but the reason they don't invent something new is because they want to create free replacements for current available software. They are not slowing down development, they are making technology available so more people can help make new technology. (I REALLY don't understand what you are trying to say, so this might be a very offtopic answer)
Note to self: get smarter troll to guard door.
btw screw you apple and microsoft for not providing media players for linux.
:-D
If anyone would be interested in funding this kind of thing, the online porn merchants should be. They have the dollars and they have the marketing need.
Come on fellas, how about sponsoring a Linux plugin development session to work some of the creases out of the current code? How about supporting the geeks that have kept you guys in business all these years?
This post brought to you by the Pr0n On Linux Project!
I have lots of slowtime issues though
Hmmm... ffdshow http://cutka.szm.sk/ffdshow/ uses ffmpeg to playback video.Soon we'll be able to play those apple trailers with windows media player.
Are there generally technical reasons to use one video encoding format over another?
.gif, .jpg, .pcx, .bmp, etc.) and a relatively small number of commonly used audio codecs (Vorbis, MP3, .wav, .voc, .au, etc.).
I realize that like gif vs. jpeg there will be tradeoffs in quality between various formats. However, the sheer number of codecs out there seems a bit rediculous. There are a small number of commonly used image formats (.png,
Other than attempts to corner the market through proprietary software, can anyone explain the need for more than a handful of different codecs?
Somebody get that guy an ambulance!
I hate these slashdot article titles that leave you thinking "huh????"
Sheesh! mplayer has been 100% GPL since version 0.90-pre1.
What is needed for the community is a list of DVDs which have no CSS and optionally no region coding. I have bought and own over 60 DVDs. There are unfortunately only a couple which do not have CSS. _Highlander: 20th Anniversary Director's Cut_ is one which doesn't.
Um, they aren't illegally distributed. Apple themselves distribute them for free - they'd be hard pressed to argue in court that while it's OK for random multimedia CDs and websites to redistribute QuickTime, it's not ok for the MPlayer guys to do it.
Linux has half a percent of the desktop market. Apple, with MacOS, has something like 4-5%, I think?
Er, what? You need to get a handle on statistics dude! Nobody knows how big the market share of Linux is, but it's easily 2-3% - companies like IDC say this, not some random joe off the net. Apples market share has been declining steadily for some time now, go read OSNews, they have reported on it several times, and it's now hovering slightly above 2%. So you're smoking some serious stuff if you think MacOS is a long way in front of Linux in terms of market share - it may even be the other way around .
They don't, quite frankly, have the time to screw around with, essentially, something that can't even be called "competition"
Apples biggest competitor is Linux by a long, long way. It's the only OS that also appeals to the UNIX-minded user base and can be installed on Apple hardware. No, Windows basically targets a different market at this level. I suspect this is the biggest reason they aren't doing anything - if you look at their contributions to free software, they've done basically what the licenses forced them to do and no more. They're happy to use free software to further their own ends, but aren't really happy to actually take part in the community.
their legal department head is a total psycho-policy-bitch, completely the wrong thing for a cute-and-cuddly computer company
Apple aren't cute and cuddly, not even close. You might like to think they are, but go through and learn about their history, Jobs' working style, you clearly already know about their legal tendancies. They're a company out to make the biggest buck they can, and the "cute and cuddly" feeling is a glow projected by their fearsome marketing department, not by their actions.
Simple put.
Its super fast.
It runs on many platforms with no tweaking.
Its stable.
And it plays all the stuff xine does and more.
It plays realmedia and quicktime already (I watched matrix trailers like week ago with it.)
It has many different outputs (command line/frame buffer, opengl, sdl output etc).
It also supports tv capture cards.
And it supports tv remotes.
And it does encoding.
And now there are kplayer and kmplayer - very sweet kde interfaces that embed in kde and konqueror web browser.
Plus with the mplayerplug-in you can use mplayer in mozilla and other web browsers too.
So why in the world would I use xine (that I have found very unstable every single time I tried it) and not use mplayer which just works?
Ever since I started using open source software, I always missed a decent media player that just works. Well finally there is one, and its name is Mplayer. It just works. And in mean time it does everything else too. So guess what? I'm sticking with mplayer. I love it.
Cheers to the mplayer developers. You guys rule! Keep up the good work.
GIMP can do print work.
Similar to in the old days, it was either POSTSCRIPT or NOTHING, but nowadays, typesetters will accept versions of MS Word documents, many printing machines will accept RGB and do colour conversion.
It is *better* if you have CMYK, since you don't have the limitations of both systems in colour reproduction. Not, however, necessary.
I suspet that the reason that GIMP hasn't got CMYK even now is partly
a) They are trying to get the right answer in colourspace management (they want to be able to plug in any colourspace)
b) Patents
By the way, no problem using GIMP in an inkjet printer...!
"in relation to the codec used in Sorenson Squeeze"
Not true. The legal action is over the CODEC used in Flash MX (Sorenson Spark), as Squeeze can use either SV 3.1 or Spark - Apple maintain that their agreement with Sorenson Media gives them exclusive rights to use A Sorenson CODEC, Sorenson says not ANY Sorenson CODEC.
Incidentally, Sorenson's MPEG4 CODEC is a beaut, and gives MUCH better encodes than Apple's.
That was classic intercourse!
Go back to bed ion++.
Repeating made up numbers doesn't make them true. The fact is that nobody knows how many people are using Linux. It actually seems likely to me that there are more Linux desktop users out there than there are OS X users (many of them dual-booting Windows).
In any case, no matter what the market share is, Apple needs to realize that Linux users can cause them real problems: as this shows, the Linux community is capable of developing codecs themselves if Apple doesn't supply them. In the long run, that erodes Apple's control over a market segment that they desperately want to control. Linux MPEG-4 encoders are already among the best and fastest in the business, for example.
Of course, that's what I would like to see happen anyway: so, keep up the good work--keep NOT shipping proprietary codecs for Linux, we don't want them anyway.
Is this better then running Mplayer with Quicktime codecs? I have Mplayer mozilla plugin too, but with newest QT movies, I don't get sound.
Hrrm... I usually just sign my name.
Xine's DVD navigation is terrible. Most of the time it just crashes on simple things like going to the main menu (via the function keys). Then again, Xine's interface and playback is completely rotten as well--why is there a pause between chapters sometimes?
OGLE is far better. The dvdnav actually works without crashing the player, AND it has a much saner interface (none of this themed nonsense).
Xine gets way too much hype. It's the worst media player available for Linux--there are much better alternatives.
it's lunch time here. Anyway, i was just quoting the changelog from mplayer-0.90.tar.bz2 which says:
566: pre1:
567: * 100% GPL - yeah, so what?
I saw the anouncement that someone had begun implementing Theora playback in Xine a while ago. I've been playing with theora, encoding whatever I could find. I find that the quality of Theora is quite good, but it consumes a lot of CPU when decoding. Perhaps in Xine, playback is less CPU-demanding (I can't image example_player was optimized).
(On a side note: it was fun encoding First Contact as theora -- it required 90GB of temporary space, and I watched it only by changing the resolution close to the width of encoded video)
Now I can encode to Theora and compare in fullscreen! Yipee! I hope the beta isn't too far away, so more people will dare check it out, so it can eventually gain the same momentum that Vorbis has now.
set your date to +100 years.
;-)
open QT Player, click away the ad, close QT Player.
set date to today's date.
-> you'll never see the ad again for the next 100 years - that would be the time Linux evolved far enough one can use it as a viable desktop OS alternative
Code is Speech. No to Censorship.
If you'd learn how to write sound card drivers your sound card would work, too. Why should someone else write a driver for your shitty ass $5 sound card you bought from a dollar shop?
It is a big deal, but you don't understand why because you're thick. As a plank. One day, maybe you'll understand but by then it will all be too late. Don't come crying to us when your crappy audio card doesn't work under Windows 2005 because it isn't Palladium enabled and Windows can't create a secure audio path. You fucknut.
Holy shit, turn up the battery on your sarcasm detector. Something is seriously wrong!
Restating the obvious since nineteen aught five.
He was making a joke - saying it isn't free because you have to download it. (bandwidth costs etc)
Silly.
Both of xine and MPlayer use FFmpeg, which now supports native SVQ3 decoding. Ever since this weekend my CVS version of MPlayer has been able to play SVQ3 natively.
It's as easy as that. Both xine and MPlayer use libavcodec, which now supports SVQ3 natively.
MPlayer (G1 - let's call it that) is not likely to die anytime soon. In fact we will soon release another stable version, 0.91 and 1.0 will most likely come from the main development branch and not from G2.
Try compiling MPlayer under your choice of Cygwin or MinGW under Windows, it should run just fine.
No need to run MPlayer with QT codecs, it supports SVQ3 natively through FFmpeg, just like xine.
Cmon, you can do better than this.
I'm smarter than the average bear.
> Um, they aren't illegally distributed.
Wrong. The mplayer project does not have explicit permission from Apple to distribute them. You have read the QuickTime license agreement, haven't you?
> Apple themselves distribute them for free
Yes, you see, they're the COPYRIGHT HOLDER.
> they'd be hard pressed to argue in court that while it's OK for random multimedia CDs and websites to redistribute QuickTime, it's not ok for the MPlayer guys to do it
You don't know much about copyright, do you?
One needs EXPLICIT PERMISSION to distribute.
Is there a project to port ffmpeg as a windowmedia player codec?
You know, the quicktime player sucks, and my friends wish they could open quicktime on it.
(For me, I'll wait mplayer support it on linux).
Yep, just downloaded it, compiled it (after updating ;)), and give it a
;), not like other free software media player developers.
my freetype library, it was kind of old
try with the Matrix Reloaded trailer. With Xv extensions
it runs smooth and with excellent quality in a PIII 800.
Xine has been always my player because don't depends on external libraries aside from libpng and zlib (Yep, it supports a lot things, but they are optional) so there is no need for gtk/qt toolkits with the standard gui, which is enough for me, and developers seems nice persons
I thought the same thing.
The dirvers were ported from FFMpeg, and MPlayer supports FFMpeg codecs (and actually uses them as the priority). So simply update your MPlayer ffmpeg dir and have native Sorenson wihtout the Win32 DLL hack.
Linux has half a percent of the desktop market. Apple, with MacOS, has something like 4-5%, I think? Maybe 8% tops? Why exactly -should- Apple give a hoot about Linux? They're not THAT big a company, and they're busy as hell(have you stopped to think about how many software products they now produce? OSX, OSX Server, Quicktime Streaming Server, Quicktime, iTunes, iPhoto, iMovie and Final Cut Pro, iDVD and DVD Studio Pro, iCal/iSync...the list is ENORMOUS.) They don't, quite frankly, have the time to screw around with, essentially, something that can't even be called "competition"
Assuming your figures are correct. Linux is much more a competitor to Apple than it is to Microsoft. Linux has achieved 10-15% of the amount of Apple's marketshare with relatively few marketing $$$ spent. Since they have made Mac OS/X BSD based, they have essentially gone into competition with Linux to some degree.
But anyway, as has been shown by Linux Media players, you can make the Windows DLL run unmodified on Linux, you just need to provide the front-end. As the Codeweavers Crossover plugin has shown, you can make the entire Windows Quicktime Application run on Linux unmodified and appear as a native app.
So Apple could produce a Linux Quicktime with little or no money spent. Option 1: use the Windows DLL, and write a front end for it. Option 2: Enter an agreement with Codeweavers to package their technology into a Quicktime for Linux distribution, in exchange for a cut of Quicktime for Linux sales, to make it appear as a native app.
With the second option, Apple would have to do very little and spend very little. But it would give the appearance that you can run Quicktime on Linux with Apple's blessing, instead of always feeling like some kind of rogue for just wanting to watch video streams on Linux. Producing Quicktime for Linux is probably in Apple's best interest because not producing it only encourages the development of players like xine and mplayer, that will figure out how to play your format eventually, and not bother to enforce DRM.
By reading this sig, you agree to the terms of my sig license.
Apple should care for business reasons. If you can play mpeg4 on Linux, but can't play anything in a .qt file format you're not going to use quicktime.
And, as Linux is quite big in the server field, the same people who can't play Quicktime on their home computers are going to influence their bosses to host other types of media files.
In one way I count for only a single desktop user, in another way I count for five (desktops I own or admin for family) and an office of users. If Quicktime gets to be a pain for me to play I'm going to find alternatives and Apple will miss out on a fairly large number of end users because of it.
This almost happened with Quicktime v4 (?) where their interface got really bad and installing it was a pain.
So yes, I do think Apple should care about geeks on Linux wanting to watch Quicktime trailers of the Matrix. Adobe brought out a Linux version of Acrobat to broaden the platform, not for the total number of users gained.
A simple recompile and test is enough only when the various platforms have source-compatible APIs (as with POSIX's C library), but in this case, they don't. Say QuickTime has a .mov parser and a Foozbat video decoder. Xine also has a .mov parser. Apple would have to adapt the Foozbat video decoder to match Xine's .mov parser and the rest of Xine's API. I'd give a small team a week to a couple weeks for the engineers and patent lawyers to get the details ironed out, which correlates with somewhere between $10,000 and $100,000.
Will I retire or break 10K?
Nonsense. While Apple doesn't release software for free unless it suits some purpose, they have released code when they don't have to. Starting with Darwin (the BSD license requires nothing of Apple), which they did not develop, all the way to the Darwin (Quicktime) Streaming Server and Rendezvous, which they did. They also go out of their way to play nice with the KHTML people (they don't have to; all they're required to do is release their modified source).
All of this is documented fact, though I cannot dispute your "aren't really happy to actually take part in the community" claim. Unlike you, I have no way of knowing what makes a corporation happy or sad.
Also, Apple and Sorenson settled this suit/countersuit quite a while ago.
My video compression blog
because it has a "save" feature too.
Jesus, what a ripoff shop apple is!
> One needs EXPLICIT PERMISSION to distribute.
Well the EULA might not have suggested using DLLs at another platform, but does Apple think the Linux folks running Windows DLLs an act of violation of EULA?
If I were Apple, I probably won't be bothered by this at all. This supports and encourages the use of the QuickTime format, not the other way round.