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Microsoft Bites Apple, Apple Bites Back
hype7 writes "The NYT (free reg reqd etc) is running an interesting article on where MS seems to be getting all the ideas for its next big OS release, Longhorn. It's only a quickie, but they look at MS's big news from WinHEC, and their possible sources for inspiration. They also pull out that fantastic Bill Gates quote: 'The one thing Apple's providing now is leadership in colors'; and that Apple execs are now having a laugh of their own over how Longhorn, 'Microsoft's 2005 version of its Windows operating system, apes features that have been in Apple's OS X operating system since 2001.'"
I recall, years back, an avi making the rounds with Bill Gates speaking (at a MacWorld?) and sheepishly admitting that the Mac was the best or had the best desktop or something along those lines. As if Win95 didn't cement clearly the view that Microsoft indeed was impressed with, at least the look and feel, we get more of this, "Gee, Apple is visionary, so we'll just copy what they do", from the big innovator. Well, no surprise, but I do wonder whether there's an agreement where Microsoft pays Apple for some of this, or is it just payment 'in-kind' (meaning Microsoft products which run on Macs)?
"As a matter of fact we do have a Research and Development department, we call it, 'Apple Computer, Inc.'"
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
Apple copies Microsoft, and Microsoft copies Apple.
Apple coppied the WinXP feature that lets users switch who's logged in without losing state. And Microsoft copies features from Apple. Its the Kettle calling the Pot black...
The same company that didn't offer a preemptive, protected multitasking OS until OS X, years and years after Microsoft had Windows NT?
Competition makes the product better. MS learns, they are not stupid. They are stealing from Linux, they are stealing from Apple, Linux is stealing from both, etc.
:)
Feed on each other to make a stronger whole
-- Who is the bigger fool? The fool or the fool who follows him? --
Seriously, this 'article' is the journalistic equivalent of the Sci-Fi channel bumpers and the only reason I can see for Slashdot to post it is to start another anti-MS feeding frenzy.
Do different companies in the same industry steal ideas from each other? Yes. Is it news? Not unless they get caught doing it before the other fella, i.e. industrial spying.
That computer looks like an iMac using a painted Commodore 64 keyboard and 2 little arms stuck on the sides. Couldn't they integrate the camera into the screen a little better? And what is that thing hanging off the left side? And why on Earth would it be there? Couldn't that be under the keyboard somewhere?
I know it's a prototype, but isn't this the stage where you make it beautiful - because it doesn't have to work well yet?
This is why MS gets accused of copying more often than anyone else. It's a second class rip off. When you steal from something, you should be able to look at the original and improve upon it. This is just playing catch up.
The underlying issue is that people feel that somehow 'their' particular technological provider is the sole benefactor of whatever un-patent-worthy trend in the industry is going on. We should be glad that this isn't the case, but due to 'interface addiction' we see innovation spreading as somehow threatening. All it theatens is the ability to feel superior.
What, do you think iTunes is visionary? How about the idea of a 'digital media hub'? These are ancient news in the computing world and the fact that one company got to market a year before the other says more about scheduling than it does about innovation.
The absolute worst is people who think Microsoft making their UI more 'soft' was a direct response to OS X. These UI changes don't get dreamed up at the last minute -- they're part of an evolution that takes years.
I will admit there are some times when it's pretty blatant that a company's idea is stolen.
Computer manufacturers noticed apple's sales take off when they went for a more stylish look. Yes, they're copying. It's called capitalism and it's what raises the bar for everyone. What, do you think apple came up the idea of making something they're selling look good?
It's no different from JC Penny selling some fashion that the GAP came up with. Thanks for the idea, say hello to the free market. We as consumers win, the innovator gets first-to-market advantage. But that's ALL they get.
What did you eat today? http://www.atetoday.com/
I can't remember how many linux flavors are trying to look just like ms, run ms software, blaa blaa blaa. You anti ms people need a life.
Sure MS steals from Apple and vice versa.... So whats the big deal with computers this is already done in the automotive business everyday. If one car maker has a new feature and the public likes it, then all the car makers get the feature. Its that simple. In the end features are driven by the consumers, not the companies. If companies could just keep shipping last years products and make a profit, they would (and some do). So quit with the eternal bitching and moaning regarding whose stealing what innovation. M$ is evil for lots of reasons but this is really not an evil act in and of itself. Windows is, in and of itself.
. I love the sound of burning women and screaming rubber....
Surely there are adacemic researchers out there probing the frontier of human-computer interaction that could use Linux as the basis for their work? Could it be that X is slowing us down somehow? I mean, think of how much fuss there was over minor and superficial enhancements antialiased fonts and transparent windows. Where are the big ideas?
The Open Source community has demonstrated that it can play catch-up and play it well, but when are we going to see Windows and Apple stealing important UI features from Linux?
OSX is a dream OS ..
.. play Warcraft3 .. run Adobe Photoshop .. and use Cron .. all on the same machine in the same OS -natively- without dualbooting .. and you can actually watch fullmotion video (ie DVD's) behind a transparent terminal window thanks to a true OpenGL rendered desktop.
..
I can compile GNU fileutils
Apple has done in a few years what many in the Linux community have been trying to do for ages
Do you know who they both steal from? BSD.
Curious. How do you "steal" from BSD when the very license permits you to use the code in any way you see fit?
I guess if maybe they're not including the copyright notices you might call it stealing, but otherwise, BSD code is there for anyone to use.
The result was Windows 95 and Apple had nothing to bite back with except Guy Kawasaki. They seem to have their act together a lot more these days. Let's hope that, by the time Longhorn is released, they're four years ahead again.
What Would the Fab Five Do?
I remember when IBM announced their first personal computer. Of course, Apple said something like "Welcome. Serioiusly."
Then Apple got it's head kicked in.
In our world, quality does NOT sell computers. This new Microsoft machine doesn't have to be nearly as good as a Macintosh to be good enough for people who don't know any better. That principal, already, has been proven.
Thankfully, there is one important difference between those days and today: Apple is working its arse off and not just talking shit.
Apple is definitely pushing the industry -- that has always been its charter. Let us all hope that they don't forget all the obligations that role entails.
--Richard
From the summary: "...'The one thing Apple's providing now is leadership in colors'..."
And this is the *best* thing MS can copy? Whatever happened to increasing security? Opening standards? Interoperability? Customer support? Fixing bugs?
Nope...gotta get them colours right...
So rise up, all ye lost ones, as one, we'll claw the clouds.
Its NOT about churning out a first rate product. First rate products are hard to build take time and don't make you very rich very quickly.
GM, Ford and AMC don't churn out great cars. No Lamborghini's, no Roll's Royces, not even a Beamer. But they churn out a lot of crappy ones and make some money on each one.
Its all about the Benjamins. M$ would churn out Goethes, Bachs, Rembrants and Piranene's if anybody figured out a way to make a buck doing that.
But that's not likely is it? So you get "wanna-be" "rip-off" crap that doesn't work well, look good or last long because there's more money in churning crap.
MSBPodcast.com The opinions expressed here are my own. If you don't like 'em... Think up your own stuff.
why would apple be laughing at microsoft for incorporating features already in os X? they should instead be scratching their heads and wonder how the hell microsoft is so much more popular despite the "lag."
It's entirely telling that on slashdot design decisions aren't considered "ideas" (Score:5, Informative). Oh dear. What hope do we have for a decent gui?
Surely there are adacemic researchers out there probing the frontier of human-computer interaction that could use Linux as the basis for their work? Could it be that X is slowing us down somehow?
No, it's not X. I've done some HCI work, including some very early contributions to Gnome. It is almost never the technology that slows you down in this area, it's almost always people's mindset.
One thing that's been really damaging Linux in this regard is the load of people who believe that Linux absolutely has to copy windows. Very obviously, innovation and copycat behaviour don't work well together.
Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
Even the background image on the Athens PC looks vaguely like the default OS X background image.
I'm also amused that no one seems to have noticed that while none of the individual ideas MS is pushing are wildly new, the level integration of basic work tasks will be very impressive if it works as hyped...
Clear, Dark Skies
Consider:
Would anyone be surprised if Longhorn turns out to be BETTER than OS X?
Would anyone be shocked if, alternatively, by 2005, OS X had progressed to a further point than Longhorn then?
And which of you would switch just because of that? As for me, I'm sticking to the Mac anyway.
Detroit puts out beautiful, well done, and only sometimes missing an engine concept cars. Then they try to sell you a crappy car that got up on the wrong side of the design bed at the dealership.
Apple didn't invent color management or color science either. They simply happened to have a large graphics arts user community, so they were the first to incorporate this stuff into their systems.
Microsoft, Apple, and Linux are each years behind the state of the art in many areas. Windows XP is some VMS work-alike on steroids, and OS X is a warmed-over version of NeXTStep. And Linux still gives you that warm-and-fuzzy UNIX feeling from, oh, 15 years ago. That's the way it is with commercial or real-world systems. Just because Apple happens to incorporate some feature into their system first doesn't give them claim to it in perpetuity.
Oh my god, people who buy Apple computers are idiots. Oh wow, I didn't see that coming. That's brilliant, I mean Fortune 500 companies are full of genuises, that's were all the Noble Prize winners go, that's where all the Pulitzer Prize winning writers go, that's where all the sum of human intelligence is. No one ever made a bad decision in the Fortune 500. Maybe people use Macs because they like having a choice, and they like using a different product, and maybe you're just too blind to see it. Is your VCR clock blinking 12:00?
Anyone who whines about being modded down should be.
Typical. Screenshots of AmigaOS and Mac, but nothing from the Atari ST/TT/Falcon experience...
"Right now, somewhere in this world, Scott Baio is plowing a woman he doesn't love," - Peter Griffin, *Family Guy*
Typical MS tactic. Whenever customers start looking some other way there comes the " Look! In 2 years time we'll do the moon!" mantra. It's called vapourware. As far as I'm concerned all Longhorn is about is a fat sidebar and some custom HTML pages embedded in some IE dll. Something Konqueror could do (and in some way already does) consistently if a vendor decided to inject some effort in it. Ah, of course gnome nautilus is just as good too. There's simply nothing MS will do in 2 years that can distract me from next month's (1 month, 1) presentation of Os X 10.3
In 2 years time I can't even think what unix desktops will have archieved...
Mi domando chi à il mandante di tutte le cazzate che faccio - Altan
Can I make a suggestion? Depending on the site you're referring to, and your connection with them, email them and tell them that you won't do business with them until they remove that crap.
It's one thing to not support your browser, it's another to support it, but make an assumption that it won't work, or push IE for any other reason.
The same type of thing happened with my bank: I emailed them, and quite quickly the problem was fixed.
Why did I do this? Because I want to make sure that they realise that people do care about what they use, and I want to make sure that my browser name shows up in their logs: we're not going to get any support if they keep seeing IE strings there, and we're just going to have to continue faking it.