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Geeking in the Third World

suzipaw writes "Geekcorps founder Ethan Zuckerman, late of Tripod, gets some well-deserved media attention for his good works via an interview on oreilly.com. What he and other volunteers are doing on behalf of developing nations is pretty darn cool. And humbling--makes this first-worlder grateful for a regular power supply."

183 comments

  1. I'm all for technology, but... by Sheetrock · · Score: 3, Insightful

    isn't there still an issue with things like, well, food, medicine, clean water, stuff like that?

    --

    Try not. Do or do not, there is no try.
    -- Dr. Spock, stardate 2822-3.




    1. Re:I'm all for technology, but... by NoMercy · · Score: 1

      There's probably more money to be made out of poor people with computers than poor people without computers, so it's bound to be a good idea.

    2. Re:I'm all for technology, but... by El+Pollo+Loco · · Score: 4, Informative

      It can depend. For example, most of my distant relatives live in small villages in India. Having visited them, food isn't really a concern. There's plenty of that. Clean water? Maybe. However, their immune systems have adapted to the water, so only american born people like me needed to boil it first. Like it says in the article, power was key. At 9pm, every night, the power to the village would be shut off, so the city could have power. That, is the real technical hurdle.

    3. Re:I'm all for technology, but... by rueba · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I have relatives in rural Tanzania and it's pretty much the same situation. Food, water are not really a problem since the food is grown locally and the people are adapted to the water.

      But only recently has electricity been introduced, and it is not that reliable.

      --
      The only reason all cover-ups appear to fail is that you never hear about the ones that succeed.
    4. Re:I'm all for technology, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      Well, if you RTFA you will find that they help local companies and such which are trying to set up their own IT but are lacking in expertise, such as the Ghanda ISP mentioned in the article. They are not walking into a third world village and saying "Hey starving villagers, how about a computer?"

      On another note, people should contribute acording to their particular skill set. If I am an expert in Linux and networking, should I go teach a poor African modern agricultural farming techniques? No, I should teach based on my area of expertise, regardless of whether you believe there are more pressing concerns.

    5. Re:I'm all for technology, but... by zakezuke · · Score: 4, Insightful

      These are issues as well, but there is also

      Education.
      1. How to grow food
      2. How to clean water
      3. medicine
      a. How to treat the ill
      b. preventive
      i. diet
      ii. HIV!!!!!

      One major issue with 3rd world contries is the massive HIV infection rate. Had a friend working for peace corps who's major irratation was the fact that it was so hard conviencing people that HIV was infact a disease... one which kills. It's somewhat hard to believe, but dispite it's existance in the 1980s it wasn't something people believed either.

      Communication between the 3rd world and the rest of the world would promote little trivial things like taking preventive measures to stop the spread of HIV and other infectious diseases. Hardcopy and people take resources to move... digial communciations takes only power and equipment, equipment the likes we replace every 1.5 years.

      Communication would open the door to the global market place. While under developed countries lack much in the way of industry, there is art, music, and stories. All of these are marketable products.

      Technology is what seperates us from animals, wether it be the basic Bushmen of the Kalahari level that is excelent to insure survivial in a very harsh enviroment, or the high tech that we who can read this enjoy.

      I see a great benifit of raising the global I.Q. of a planet of roughly 6 billion people.

      --
      There is no sanctuary. There is no sanctuary. SHUT UP! There is no shut up. There is no shut up.
    6. Re:I'm all for technology, but... by KUHurdler · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The guys I work with have pictures from some 3rd world country they visited 5-6 years ago with high voltage power lines just running along the ground. I can't remember where for sure. Any curious kid is not safe around there. They also don't protect their equipment in any way like circuit breakers. Just wait till it cooks something, and replace it if they can afford it.

      --
      Fix Your Own TV - RiddledTV.com Avoid the Landfill
    7. Re:I'm all for technology, but... by monadicIO · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Yes, people in the third world do need everyone in the West reminding them how to live and what their priorities should be. Thank you so much for this insightful observation.

      Yes, I'm trolling.

      --

      The law of excluded middle : Either I'm foo or I'm foobar

    8. Re:I'm all for technology, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      there is an interesting article in Fortune magazine about Ghana's data services. Check it out, here is the link

      http://www.fortune.com/fortune/technology/articl es /0,15114,434987,00.html

      Anish Kadavil

    9. Re:I'm all for technology, but... by Wespee · · Score: 1

      It seems to me that Zuckerman's position isn't:

      Lack of IT is a problem.

      But rather:

      Consistent access to IT can help solve problems.

      They are directly addressing some pretty critical issues--communication with family members abroad who help support the family back home by working and sending money; helping to organize and maintain massive and crucial processes like Rwanda's reconciliation/justice commissions; reducing dependence on foreign powers for the basic mechanisms of global finance--in addition to indirectly addressing the more material issues by facilitating education and business.

      It's important not to create a false dichotomy between "help with the basic necessities" and "help with IT and communications issues". It's possible for the "developed" nations to do both, and we should, in my opinion.

    10. Re:I'm all for technology, but... by reallocate · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The Third World needs a lot of things. But, what it really does not need is naive Westerners deciding what's good for it.

      In a more specific note, consider the role that IT plays in delivering food, medicine and clean water. Yes, some people get their water by walking to a village with a pipe sticking out of the ground. And other people don't have safe water because the equipment that runs the municipal filtration system broke last year and no one in country knows how to repair it. Or that doctors can make mistakes prescibing drugs because they lack access to online pharmaceutical docmentation.

      The Third World is a big and varied place.

      --
      -- Slashdot: When Public Access TV Says "No"
    11. Re:I'm all for technology, but... by tyssen · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Yo. I am a geekcorps volunteer here in ghana. I'm not certain that your comment qualifies as "insightful". It is the obvious thing that everybody says.

      Clearly, there are huge problems here associated with poverty. The way to combat them is to try to boost the economy. Computers here are relatively cheap. There is an opportunity here, particularly if the infrasrtucture is improved (and alot is being done in that direction) to create at the very least a viable industry in offshore consulting and so on, much as there is in Bangalore. We hope there will be knock on effects in the rest of the economy as more money comes in. It has worked extremely wel in, for example, Taiwan or India - also places where very large numbers of people are subsistence farmers and need more basic things.

      The argument that the money automatically needs to be spent in areas other than technology seems to me only to have force if you accept its corollory - which is to say that until we have sorted out poverty, gang violence illiteracy and so on in US and EU cities, we should spend money only in those areas.

      Colin Reveley, Geekcorps Ghana

    12. Re:I'm all for technology, but... by reallocate · · Score: 2, Informative

      >> I see a great benifit of raising the global I.Q. of a planet of roughly 6 billion people.

      Why do so many posters insist on equating geek knowledge with higher IQ? IQ has nothing to do with how much you've stuffed in your head. Slogging through a dozen computer science courses won't raise your IQ anymore than a dozen English lit courses.

      --
      -- Slashdot: When Public Access TV Says "No"
    13. Re:I'm all for technology, but... by Wyatt+Earp · · Score: 0

      Open communications doesn't solve problems like that of AIDS and the causes of AIDS in the Third World.

      Say you have a Medical Professional in Southern Africa who holds some traditionalist ideas about disease transmission and some borderline ideas on the role of the CIA in international events.

      He types aids not caused HIV in Google

      He finds articles with titles like - Scientist says HIV not cause of AIDS or AIDS IN AFRICA: Not caused by HIV

      Or maybe someone in Columbia gets the Internet and and don't see the United States in a good light when it comes to the war on Narco-terror and type CIA crack in Google.

      Communication doesn't solve problems, after all avaliable internet access in China hasn't freed Tibet or stopped any of the nastiness there.

    14. Re:I'm all for technology, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The answer is obvious. RFC 1149!

    15. Re:I'm all for technology, but... by Aerolith_alpha · · Score: 1

      yes but see with all the e-mail scams he is allowing them to do, they will be able to buy food and medicine.

      i'm reminded of certain e-mails from nigeria...

      --


      mov ax, 13h
      int 10h
    16. Re:I'm all for technology, but... by ahoehn · · Score: 1

      I see a variant of this post most every time there is an article about technology in the third world. It is an a way correct; there are plenty of places in the third world that need food, drinking water, and other basic necessities. What you're overlooking is that technology creates jobs, and jobs create income, and income creats both personal and government wealth.

      In most developing countries labour is extremely cheap. If software companies could hire experienced coders at third world salaries, I'm sure they would.

      Off the top of my head the only example I can think of this happening is companies farming out their tech-support to India, but I'm sure the appropriate google keywords would find other examples.

      --
      Mod my comments down. It'll be fun.
    17. Re:I'm all for technology, but... by Sheetrock · · Score: 2, Insightful
      It wasn't particularly insightful, I'll agree... it was just the first thing that popped into my head. But it's a relevant question, and I appreciate your answering it.

      I don't mean to bust on you guys at all. I think it's pretty cool work, and requires a level of commitment most people capable of doing it couldn't possibly provide.

      My deeper concern, which goes beyond my flip question, is that we're laying the infrastructure for exploitation by American companies without providing the benefits I feel are due those whose work is sold at American prices but produced for local wages. I believe that technology is a great industry because it's low polluting and hardly resource intensive -- besides the initial investment -- and is easy to globalize. The end point will no doubt be a good one for Ghana, as it grows industries of its own and can fully reap the results of its labor, but in the meantime (decades?) it really bothers me that multinational companies can pocket the difference between the pay of a worker in Ghana and a worker in Los Angeles instead of having to turn it over to reinvestment in Ghanan (is that a word?) development or aid.

      I don't mean to suggest that it's a one-or-the-other thing to support people or business, and of course some wages are better than no wages, but why can't we export the ability to enjoy some of the better parts of US/EU life as well (or at least to afford our patented medication)?

      --

      Try not. Do or do not, there is no try.
      -- Dr. Spock, stardate 2822-3.




    18. Re:I'm all for technology, but... by 4of12 · · Score: 1

      Then, you mean the First World industrialized nations should completely ignore the Third World and their problems - let the Third World decide and solve their own problems by themselves?

      I'm in the First World and naively believe I have some things to make my life better and would like for other people in the Third World to enjoy those things, too.

      But if you say that I'm merely an armchair quarterback with no firsthand experience of what it's like to live in the Third World, then I'll believe you. If you really don't want any help from people without firsthand experience with those problems, and believe that's best, then maybe you're right.

      --
      "Provided by the management for your protection."
    19. Re:I'm all for technology, but... by reallocate · · Score: 1

      >> Then, you mean the First World industrialized nations should completely ignore the Third World and their problems - let the Third World decide and solve their own problems by themselves?

      No, that's not what I said and it is not what I mean.

      What I mean is that Westerners should not imagine they have a clue about what the Third World is like unless they've spent some time there. Westerners should not parachute into some country with a magic answer bag full of aid and force feed it down the throats of the locals. Westerners should not be surprised when poor people decide they want to be prosperous and happy, just like Westerners.

      Westerners should not imagine that only Westerners can develop ways of helping the Third World.

      --
      -- Slashdot: When Public Access TV Says "No"
    20. Re:I'm all for technology, but... by zakezuke · · Score: 1

      This has NOTHING to do with geek knowledge or any sorta propriority facts.

      Inteligence is a good balance of aquired knolege and applied knolege. Roughly translated it's knowing shit, and knowing how to do shit.

      I thought I made it clear that I consider technology to be all forms of shit. If we raise the collective inteligence, we as a planet can do more shit!

      Computers are only a tool... one DAMNED good application of this tool is education. You don't need to be really smart to operate a computer, in fact with good text to speech application, you don't nessicarly need to be literate (though it might help).

      Let me quote something for ya

      The loss of agricultural knowledge and management skills
      Case studies undertaken in rural areas with high levels of seroprevalence make repeated references to the loss of traditional knowledge and cultural practices, in part attributed to HIV/AIDS-related morbidity and mortality. When one or both parents die or are seriously ill, their skills may not be transferred to their children or other relatives. This may have far reaching implications in terms of the continuity of agricultural production. In Eastern Africa, where the cultivation of coffee and bananas has been a traditional feature of the farming system, cultural practices associated with coffee and banana tree cultivation may be essential towards ensuring the system's continuity. As has already been noted, the correct mulching, weeding and pruning of plantations is a prerequisite for reasonable yields. However, in areas where there is a high incidence of HIV/AIDS, and the subsequent lack of understanding of the correct agricultural practices, plots have been neglected resulting in poor yields.
      --http://www.fao.org/waicent/faoinfo/sustdev/WPdir ect/WPre0003.htm

      I'm sure the FAO would help, but onsite help requires man power, resource, transportation, and great time estimate. Establishing basic computer technology in those regions with issues of lost inhearated knolege would give people access to aquired knolege, and apply it.

      Agriculture technology is among one of the worlds most important developments. This has nothing to do with getting Africa high tech, but it provides a vehicel to provide assistance in helping 3rd world nations learn to solve their own problems.

      --
      There is no sanctuary. There is no sanctuary. SHUT UP! There is no shut up. There is no shut up.
    21. Re:I'm all for technology, but... by KrispyKringle · · Score: 1
      "Technology is what seperates us from animals"

      No, weaseling out of things is what seperates us from the animals. Well, except the weasel.

    22. Re:I'm all for technology, but... by reallocate · · Score: 1

      Sorry. Intelligence has nothing to do with knowledge, applied or acquired.

      Intelligence has to do with the ability to reason, comprehend, conceptualize and understand. A baby born with a high IQ doesn't get any smarter by getting a doctorate in quantum mechanics, or grow any less intelligent by living alone in the woods.

      --
      -- Slashdot: When Public Access TV Says "No"
    23. Re:I'm all for technology, but... by zakezuke · · Score: 1

      Reason.... applied knowledge
      conceptualize.... applied knowledge
      understand... acquired knowledge

      A person who goes further applies his aquired and applied knowledge does increase his/her ability to reason, comprehend, and understand. It's only through the chalange of one's own abilitys do we grow as a person.

      Only via communication can we become more intelligent as a species, increascing our global knowlege and ability to reason, comprehend, conceptualize, and understand the world and universe as we know it. We wouldn't have quantum mechanics if knowlege, in the form of observations, theories, and discoveries were not shared.

      --
      There is no sanctuary. There is no sanctuary. SHUT UP! There is no shut up. There is no shut up.
    24. Re:I'm all for technology, but... by reallocate · · Score: 1

      Still wrong. Acquiring and using knowledge does not raise a person's intelligence.

      Intelligence is an inate attribute. In other words, we're born with as much intelligence as we are ever going to have. Everything you mention is a worthy goal, but none of it will make anyone more intelligent.

      --
      -- Slashdot: When Public Access TV Says "No"
    25. Re:I'm all for technology, but... by zakezuke · · Score: 1

      Nah, I can't believe that. While I agree some people have natural limitations as far as learning go, but being able to chalange your self does serve to increase your ability to solve problems.

      If you don't ever bother to use your mind, you don't gain the ability to reason. You enter a state of mental aphtropy.

      Without knowlege, what use is intelligence? Intelligence can be described by those who can learn, do, or teach. All the attributes you described can be taught... atleast socrates thought so :P

      --
      There is no sanctuary. There is no sanctuary. SHUT UP! There is no shut up. There is no shut up.
    26. Re:I'm all for technology, but... by zakezuke · · Score: 1

      But about when Third World issues threaten the rest of the world, like was the case with Polio. The magic bag had a vaccine and all but eliminated it from the planet.

      While yes, it should never be our goal to change the third world based on our image, or run the risk of having a India Pakastan situation. But there are issues such as the HIV epidemic that require us as a species to get together and resolve it. And who knows... many a drug breakthrough has been made by going to far out of the way regions and seeing what the local people do for herbal medication.

      --
      There is no sanctuary. There is no sanctuary. SHUT UP! There is no shut up. There is no shut up.
    27. Re:I'm all for technology, but... by Lazyhound · · Score: 1

      Never mind environmental factors, eh?

    28. Re:I'm all for technology, but... by tyssen · · Score: 1

      I agree with you. Large US owned companies will pocket the difference. But what can you do? Ghanains will be in a better position than they were before, and that is the important thing. Changing the world economic order will have to wait for another day. C

  2. Re:Okay... by maelstrom · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    OH NOES

    --
    The more you know, the less you understand.
  3. but at what cost? by Lumpy · · Score: 4, Interesting

    makes this first-worlder grateful
    for a regular power supply."


    Our computers are horrible power hogs for what they do. if you had to conserve your electrical power like they do in a 3rd world or even a 2nd world you would realize this.

    Try living off the grid, it is possible and many 1st world people do it.

    What you are grateful for is the fact that you are spoiled by the luxuries we have in the modern countries.

    many of the advances in personal powering and conservation is created by these people that are trying to get the 3rd world countries closer to where we were in the 60's.

    --
    Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    1. Re:but at what cost? by Sheetrock · · Score: 1
      I was reading about one guy (lost the link) who set up solar cells to power his server cluster. I'd give it a try if it was a little sunnier here -- sounded like an interesting project and a way to see if something like this would be feasible on a larger scale.

      They don't look too good to the neighbors, though.

      --

      Try not. Do or do not, there is no try.
      -- Dr. Spock, stardate 2822-3.




    2. Re:but at what cost? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is why alternative power people live away from suburbia... the spoiled rich whine at the sight of solar panels and wind turbines... They spend $400,000.00 for their home that is 3000 sq feet for the two of them..

      The rich are completely out of touch with reality... if you get used to that one fact everything else in the world makes more sense...

    3. Re:but at what cost? by Zathrus · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Solar Cells still cost more energy to produce than they'll deliver in their lifetime too. It's a negative sum game.

      Wind power is all well and good if you have the area to set it up in... in my area you wouldn't be able to set one up without removing a few dozen old growth trees in the first place.

    4. Re:but at what cost? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      The world makes even more sense when you realize that the "rich" people aren't doing anything that you couldn't do yourself to become rich, and sitting around complaining about how unfair life has been to you doesn't help you at all.

    5. Re:but at what cost? by 5KVGhost · · Score: 1

      "Our computers are horrible power hogs for what they do. if you had to conserve your electrical power like they do in a 3rd world or even a 2nd world you would realize this."

      If energy efficiency were the only factor in the equation then I might agree, but it obviously isn't. I'd certainly prefer to have many people using lots of cheap, relatively inefficient computers than fewer people using more expensive, somewhat more efficient computers.

      Besides, a stable electrical grid is vital for lots of things besides computers. Like refrigeration, water purification, and electronic communications (with which to contact a doctor, for example.)

    6. Re:but at what cost? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      The problem is that Companies like DELL can easily donate 1000 15 inch LCD flat panels to these groups. Same as all the other companies that are sitting on a huge pile of money and products but helping the 3rd world is not of any interest to them at all.

      PC makers could easily make ITX formfactor pc's with a case and a 10 watt power supply available for $250.00 but the also refuse to. ITX is very expensive where a low end system will cost you well over $600.00.

      you have to be RICH to conserve.. it has always been that way.

    7. Re:but at what cost? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Horrible power hogs compared to what? A computer is ~200-300W. Microwaves are ~1100 W.
      Using halogen/incandescent lightbulbs, people waste kilowatts of energy to light their homes.
      We could conserve a lot more power by ditching incandescent light bulbs than by power optimizing computers.

    8. Re:but at what cost? by JoeBuck · · Score: 1

      Your claim is false; the company Solarex demonstrated this 20 years, ago, by constructing what they called a "breeder" factory for solar cells: the only power input was solar. If, as you say, solar cells cost more energy to produce than they deliver in their lifetime, the concept would not work. And photovoltaics have gotten more efficient since then.

    9. Re:but at what cost? by Zathrus · · Score: 1

      Incorrect. The Solarex plant in Fredrick, MA provides 200 kW of power, which is only a "significant" portion of the energy needed. It also doesn't do 100% of the manufacturing onsite -- which would be difficult since most of the rare metals needed for solar plants probably aren't found in quantity there, and the refining processes needed to extract them would be significantly more than the 200kW they generate.

    10. Re:but at what cost? by King_TJ · · Score: 1

      It's really all relative. If my only power source is a couple solar cells, then yes - my computer would start to seem like it uses "far too much electricity" for what it does.

      On the other hand, it irks me when I get preached to by the eco-crowd about how "wasteful" our technologies are. The fact is, 99% of us in the U.S. *do* live on the power grid, and we do so because it's very cost-effective and economical.

      If I leave even 3 or 4 computers running all the time in my house, as opposed to only powering up a single PC when I need it - the cost difference on my monthly electric bill is roughly $5-10. The convenience (files available at all times on the LAN, etc.) is worth the money.

      With all the problems I've seen of system crashes due to "power management" functions (sleep, auto power-down on hard drives, etc.) - I have to wonder how much productivity (and money) is lost from it, vs. the energy savings.

      I think the bottom line here is, use technologies appropriate for your living conditions. If a 3rd. world country has severe underdevelopment of power generation systems, use tools that have this limitation in mind. Don't try to force those same tools on a 1st. world nation that does have sufficient power generation, though.

    11. Re:but at what cost? by Fulcrum+of+Evil · · Score: 1

      I can build a solar collector that generates more energy than it requires, but it won't be a fancy photoelectric film. No, it'll be a polished mirror folded around a water pipe, with a steam turbine at one end.

      --
      "We returned the General to El Salvador, or maybe Guatemala, it's difficult to tell from 10,000 feet"
    12. Re:but at what cost? by Zathrus · · Score: 1

      Don't forget to include all the components of that system in the calculation then -- I suspect you'll find that the manufacturing costs of the mirror, pipe, turbine, and other components will be greater than the energy you'll extract out of the system. No, it won't last forever. And when you need to replace a part you'll need to recoup the energy input from it too.

      No, I'm not being unrealistic. If you want to suggest moving to another energy source it must be self-sustainable -- otherwise you're spending more energy than you're producing. The advantage fossil and nuclear fuels have is that a great deal of the input energy was done over the course of millenia by natural forces.

      Solar energy can be efficient in this manner, but we're not there yet. Not by a considerable gap.

    13. Re:but at what cost? by realdpk · · Score: 1

      Rich, or patient? Computer technology pricing, in almost every case, is going down all the time. If PC makers could make ITX formfactor PCs with a 10(!) watt power supply for $250, they will, eventually. But maybe not tomorrow.

      The computers and other electrical hardware I use in my day-to-day life is far more efficient than those of the past.

  4. Pet Peeve by uberdave · · Score: 2, Informative

    It's Old World, New World, Third World, not First world, Second World, Third World.

    1. Re:Pet Peeve by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      Where did you hear this? First World, Second World, Third World are perfectly valid. First world == US "side" in Cold War, Second World == USSR "side" in Cold War, Third World == unaligned in Cold War. Most highly-developed countries chose sides (or had a side chosen for them), so the Third World was all the underdeveloped countries.

    2. Re:Pet Peeve by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Erm, it's West, East and third actually. Occident and Orient - an old idea.

    3. Re:Pet Peeve by stephenbooth · · Score: 1
      Old World, New World, Third World

      But, which is which? If you say New World then most 'Western' focused thinkers will say that's the Americas, maybe including Austrlia, with Europe (and probably much of Eurasia and some of Asia) being the Old World. However much of Africa had advanced civilisations and agriculture back when Europeans were still figuring out that rocks weren't good to eat. So is Africa really the Old World? And what of Asia? Many Asian nations developed advanced military tactics and logistical systems, ones on which current military thinking is still based, well before the rise of Rome and it's legions. Are they the old world?

      As time passes I'm finding that the theory of Cylical History put forward in 'Voyage of the space beagle' by A. E. Van Vogt makes more and more sense. Each rise leads inevitably to a fall with different civilisations rising and falling out of sync so as one area rises another is falling and todays developing nation is tommorrows developed and todays first world is tommorrows thrid.

      Perhaps the instant communications and integrated financial systems we now have will break the cycle. Or perhaps the current migration of jobs from Europe and the US to countries like India has already started us to the day when the people of Ethiopia will be watching TV adverts asking them to send food to the starving people of the US, and Somalia will be sending troops to arrest the warlords in France?

      Stephen

      --
      "Don't write down to your readers, the only people less intelligent than you can't read" - Sign on Newspaper Office Wall
    4. Re:Pet Peeve by eodmightier · · Score: 1

      It is? Links please..

      --
      -Eod
    5. Re:Pet Peeve by skarmor · · Score: 1

      Sorry, but that's clearly wrong. First World, Second World and Third World are perfectly valid terms. You understood what the author meant when they were used right? Just because you may not like these terms (for for whatever reason) does not mean that they cease to be relevant.

    6. Re:Pet Peeve by uberdave · · Score: 1

      Sorry folks. I publicly, and humbly apologize. I was completely unaware of the definitions posted earlier.

      "Old World", "New World" and "Third World" are terms I've heard for decades. I had not heard of "First World" or "Second World" until a year or so ago. So, I thought they were bogus; that someone had made them up because they hadn't made the "Old, New, Third" connection.

      I hereby release my peeve back into the wild.

    7. Re:Pet Peeve by generationxyu · · Score: 1

      hrm, not really. 1st world is the US and its allies, 2nd is the USSR and its allies, 3rd world are all the others. but since the cold war is over (or so they tell us ;)) 3rd world means nothing.

      --
      I mod down pyramid schemes in sigs.
  5. Help by grub · · Score: 4, Funny


    child: papa, will we eat today?
    father: no my son, but we will get to search the internet for information on food and food-like products.

    --
    Trolling is a art,
    1. Re:Help by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      child : papa , will we eat today ?
      father : soon , my son...soon we will eat better.
      Let me log on and look how the weather is going to be this week...its time to plant the seeds like my friend rwanda told me to...
      I have tilted the soil the best possible way by looking up all the agriculatural sites and how my friends are doing it..soon we shall have ample to eat...and then i'll teach you how we can help others do the same thing..

      you get the idea..

    2. Re:Help by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      child: papa, will we eat today?
      father: yes, we will get money to eat by programming in java at the EDS offshore outsourcing development center.

    3. Re:Help by ColaMan · · Score: 5, Interesting

      father: no my son, but we will get to search the internet for information on food and food-like products.

      I know you were just being glib, but let me amend that for you:

      "but we will get to search the internet for ways to stop our crops from dying off, so we can eat tomorrow."

      Of course, you could put in other lifestyle improving search terms, like say, how to build a sewage treatment plant so your village doesn't dump raw turds in the river that you drink from, or using all that pig/chicken/cow shit around the place to make enough methane for a small generating plant. Or even how to construct a nice cheap house that'll hold up to cyclonic winds and monsoon rain.

      Living in a modern country, and going to a even a second-world country (never mind a third world one) is a real eye-opener - things that I've said:

      (This is when I was staying in a town of about 300,000. Picture a small idyllic fishing village, then cram 25,000 people and cars into it)

      "What're all those tanks on the roof for?"
      "Oh, the tap water's just bore water - it's not really fit to drink. We get the drinking water trucked in."

      "Damn! What's that stink?"
      "Dead cow in the open drain outside the window there, see?"

      "How long will the power be off for?"
      "Oh , two or three hours... it normally comes back on around 10."

      "Howdy'a get a line out here? I need to ring home"
      "I'll book you a call, the guys at the exchange will ring us back when it's hooked up. There's only 15 lines out of town."

      --

      You are in a twisty maze of processor lines, all alike.
      There is a lot of hype here.
    4. Re:Help by DNS-and-BIND · · Score: 1
      Newsflash: the second world has ceased to exist.

      This message brought to you by the Internet Wayback Machine, circa 1991.

      --
      Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
    5. Re:Help by hoopyfroodman · · Score: 1

      I have to echo your comments. I was raised in a rural community, and information was always key in development of crops, animal vaccination, soil fertilization, and pesticide use. Environmental impact was always a consideration too. Information is power wether you are in a first world nation or a third world nation. One internet connected device in a rural community could do wonders for crop yields. If we simply keep piling aid upon these countries, nothing will ever change. We need to offer information to the agricultural communities so they mey become self sufficient. Remember that the internet also provides information on different poltical idealologies. Not only can a connection offer them practical information on farming, but also the seeds of political thought that are necessary to change the violent regimes that occupy some of the third world nations.

    6. Re:Help by ColaMan · · Score: 1

      Sigh. Let me put it to you this way:

      The average person knows what a "First World " country is (technologically speaking). Reliable food and water supplies, good standard of living , low mortality rate.

      The average person also knows what a "Third World" country is. Unreliable (or non-existant) food and water supplies, crap standard of living, high mortality.

      What I was attempting to imply by my use of "Second World" was a country with technological expertise in between the two.

      Yes I am aware of the "offical" (anal) meaning of the terms, but I thought I'd do my bit to tweak the vocabulary a little bit. Especially seeing that, as you pointed out, there *is* no Second world left anymore, we may as well use the terms for something else.

      And I think the proper "Second world" standards of living were (by most accounts) still pretty poor for the day.

      --

      You are in a twisty maze of processor lines, all alike.
      There is a lot of hype here.
    7. Re:Help by DNS-and-BIND · · Score: 1
      Er...no. Second World has an established definition, and it has nothing to do with being "between" First and Third world standards. You're not "tweaking" the vocabulary, you're misusing it. Invent a new word if you need to.

      FYI, Second World living conditions were great. No cause for complaint among anyone who lived under them. I know it's true because I read it in the New York Times and the New Republic.

      --
      Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
    8. Re:Help by Nick_dm · · Score: 1

      The "Third World" was originally used to describe commoners (1st and 2nd world being nobility and clergy).

      But the "Third World" as in "Third World Country" was originally used to describe countries that were not capitalist or communist. (basicly countries that had not developed enough to get to that turning point). So certainly there were major issues with living conditions in many communist countries, and still are, the second world is not dead yet by far.

      some info
      and also some stuff on everything2

    9. Re:Help by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If we had tilled the soil rather than tilted it, we would have a level surface in which to grow our crops.

    10. Re:Help by DNS-and-BIND · · Score: 1

      Er, no, that's the "Third Estate".

      --
      Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
    11. Re:Help by thynk · · Score: 1

      "but we will get to search the internet for ways to stop our crops from dying off, so we can eat tomorrow."

      This is all well and good, until they discover /. and the productivity of the community does down the drain.

      I think time will show that the faster global communication comes to an area, the other concerns like quality food, drinking water and power sources will be solved. It's not a cause and effect type of thing, but rather it's a side effect of sharing ideas in a global community.

      oh, and just to poke fun....

      "Oh, the tap water's just bore water - it's not really fit to drink. We get the drinking water trucked in."

      "Damn! What's that stink?"
      "Dead cow in the open drain outside the window there, see?"


      Dead cow in the open drain, and the water isn't fit to drink. Hmmmm... Kinda a cause and effect sort of thing isnt' it? Keep dead cows out of your water cycle, and I'll bet a dime to a donut that it's gong to help the water be drinkable.

      --

      Good judgment comes from experience, and a lot of that comes from bad judgment.
  6. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 4, Funny

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  7. Re:Okay... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    THEY NEED FOOD AND SHELTER FIRST!!

    I think you're joking, but just in case someone takes you seriously: they need the means to PRODUCE their OWN food and shelter. That means technology.

    Give a man a fish, and all that...

  8. Technology donation in developing countries by girl_geek_antinomy · · Score: 4, Informative

    Actually, with so much old computer kit being donated to the third world by companies etc (there must be a tax break or something - that and it saves paying to dispose of it) there's a lot to be said for sharing expertise, especially if those doing it are competent in working with Free software so that basic things like all the machines in a school running the same stuff can be taken care of. At the moment these machines run with what they came with and are nearly always next to useless. Well, unless you count the ones being used as doorstops and steps.

    Of course there are other important things to do in these parts of the world, but the way I see it, sharing out expertise never did anyone any harm - it's a comodity both free and invaluable.

    1. Re:Technology donation in developing countries by girl_geek_antinomy · · Score: 3, Informative

      This article from the BBC illustrates the current problems with the donation of computer hardware rather nicely. Seems to me a bit of know-how is exactly what's needed.

    2. Re:Technology donation in developing countries by Nept · · Score: 1

      yea, there is a tax break. I donated an old box to the good will, not quite third world, but may take care of those who aren't living much better.

      If I choose to itemize on taxes next year, I can write off the total, and get total*tax_bracket back.

      btw, not sure that geek girl is an antinomy, but have it your way.

      --
      "Teachers leave us kids alone ..." - Roger Waters, Pink Floyd
  9. Teach them how to fish...... by lysium · · Score: 3, Insightful
    ...and they won't need to buy Microsoft products later on.

    Something like this fits perfectly with Linux/OS philosophy. If technicically-minded people in developing nations can be shown how to run modern, full-featured computers/networks with the older hardware available to them, you remove the need for pricey (probably American) consultants, newer, expensive hardware, and newer, license-laden, expensive software.

    Basically, I believe that developing nations deserve to get on their own two feet without tithing a percentage of their resources to American technology firms. Yes, I am an American. And yes, I will be volunteering in the future.

    --
    Together, we will drive the rats from the tundra.
    1. Re:Teach them how to fish...... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And give up the monopoly on fisheries?!?

    2. Re:Teach them how to fish...... by namtrop · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Having just returned from three months connecting rural schools in Uganda, let me just offer one (small-sample-size) perspective:

      It's a lot tougher than you think. I visited 16 schools several months after they had received an in-depth, two-week Linux training course. By the time I arrived their Linux computers lay broken, not having been touched for weeks.

      We (geeks and nerds of the developed world) have been suckling at the teet of technology all our lives: drivers, file systems, and the like are now second-nature. However, to someone from another, non-technically-innundated culture, it's extremely difficult to use Linux.

      Proof? In 16 schools, only one Linux machine was still running when I arrived. But every Windows machine was still being used, and loved.

      For the time being, at least, let's give developing nations what they CAN use (Microsoft) not what we WANT them to use (Linux).

      I would love to hear other people's experiences with MSFT vs OS in developing nations.

    3. Re:Teach them how to fish...... by cmathison · · Score: 1

      You're one of "them," aren't you? J/K...

    4. Re:Teach them how to fish...... by Com2Kid · · Score: 2, Interesting

      One of the issues is that Windows computers degrade, if not gracefully, at least in a somewhat nice manner. Sure towards the end of the "install, use, reinstall" cycle they may crash every half an hour (or more often!), at least they boot into a GUI and you can load up (most of? some of?) your programs.

      A *nix machine can have X die hard and not boot into a GUI at all. Sure it may be easy for somebody who KNOWS what they are doing to fix, but, err, this is a school, students are there to learn basic life skills first and foremost, not fart around with config files. (or, if they are farting around with config files, that is an elective, heh)

      Also, it is far harder to FUBAR a Windows box just from regular day to day use. Windows may eat itself up, but at least little of that it due to user intervention. :-D

      By comparison, I have managed to get X to fail to start up in under 10 minutes of a new install without ever touching a single config file (with a text editor at least, obviously something was changed!!)

      A properly setup *nix box MAY last forever, but this is a school environment, remember, kids are kids, and they will find endless pleasure in typing in random crap until the system goes tits up. :)

    5. Re:Teach them how to fish...... by Lumpy · · Score: 1

      For the time being, at least, let's give developing nations what they CAN use (Microsoft) not what we WANT them to use (Linux).

      so why didnt you give them macs?

      Sorry for the joke but that is only a testament to the shoddyness of the linux installs. If I can set up linux kiosks that can withstand the stupidity of the general american public they can easily withstand the teaching of bright poor students.

      Calling linux a failure when the person who set it up was unqualified is very unfair. Get someone there with some real skills and an understanding of what is needed.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    6. Re:Teach them how to fish...... by ColaMan · · Score: 1

      Apart from the usual software armor that gets put in place, how about something like another (smallish) boot partition that holds a compressed image of the filesystem as originally installed? When you boot to that partition, all it does is dd (via bzip) a copy to your other partition and reboot. Use a bootloader menu of "Re-Install System" or something, and a few dire warnings and a password before it begins of course..

      Then you could have a complete re-install in about 20 minutes or so.

      Or maybe just whack something like that on a cd, as long as your PC's are reasonably consistent hardware wise.

      --

      You are in a twisty maze of processor lines, all alike.
      There is a lot of hype here.
    7. Re:Teach them how to fish...... by illusion_2K · · Score: 1

      Dude, I couldn't agree more.

      Last summer I was working on a development project in the Zambian government where I set up the IT department at a government agency. While I did use OSS whenever I could, I really couldn't see anyway around the windows domination 'problem.' For one thing, there is no real support infrastrcture for Linux outside of the technically savvy IT people (of which I saw maybe 2 shops total with linux boxen) whereas there are several Microsoft Partners willing to provide a reasonable level of support given the rest of the environment. The other main limiting factor that people back in the west don't really consider is the bandwidth issue - internet access in Zambia was archaic. DSL lines cost upwards of $1000USD (well outside of the budgets of most small/medium organizations there) and there was terrible latency. Downloading ISOs for various distros was an exercise in patience to say the least.

      Anyway, just to reiterate your point - Linux adoption there will happen, but the environment for it just isn't quite right at the moment.

    8. Re:Teach them how to fish...... by lysium · · Score: 1
      That's exactly why talented linux geeks should volunteer. Using the feedback you just provided, I would have to say that greater emphasis needs to be placed on reliability and fool-proofing; perhaps an ISO distro or one-click restore CD would help. Or why not scout around for a native would-be-geek, and initiate them, exclusively, in the higher realms of technology? Let them be the bridge between your knowledge and the local mindset.

      I could put a group of my co-workers in linux training for two weeks, and get the same result. Linux requires much more forethought/design than a Microsoft system; the only solution to this problem is for more talented, detail-oriented people to get involved, and work kinks like this out.

      --
      Together, we will drive the rats from the tundra.
    9. Re:Teach them how to fish...... by NineNine · · Score: 1

      Uh, call me nuts, but I thought that "ease of use" is what several commercial Linux companies have been working on for years. So far, none of 'em are even close. what makes you think that if a company working on it (Caldera, Lindows, etc.) can't do it, a handful of geek volunteers can do it?

    10. Re:Teach them how to fish...... by mcdurdin · · Score: 3, Informative
      I have almost finished a year working in Papua New Guinea for the PNG Institute of Medical Research (IMR), helping them to setup a LAN for their Goroka headquarters. I came over with my wife through Australian Volunteers International, roughly equivalent to Peace Corps.

      IMR already had 2 computer support people working in Goroka -- one of them completely self trained -- so I thought that we could probably use Linux at least for the backend and save ourselves a lot of money. However I quickly found that although the techs were quite familiar with Windows, a year was not going to be anywhere near long enough to bring them to a point where they would be able to correct issues with Linux. There was just too much of a curve. I doubt that we would have been able to get to the point of patching and recompiling the kernel (or an application). For all the recent criticism of Windows Update, it usually works a whole lot more simply for users (and our techs here).

      When I arrived, they had a basic Lantastic network that the techs would use for backing up data from individual PCs. There was just one computer with email and Internet access (and a single email address for the whole organisation) -- people would queue to use it. It had never been patched at all. We would open up computers just 3 weeks old and not be able to distinguish any features inside due to the dust.

      We did some basic training for Linux, and the techs went through that with no problem, but they started to communicate to me their concern with administering it. They had a heavy workload and didn't feel confident that they would be able to get to the point they needed to with Linux before my time with them was up. In the end I went with an all-Microsoft solution. Windows, Exchange 2000, Terminal Server, etc. We are now at a point where client machines don't matter any more -- data is stored on the server -- it used to use up all their time just keeping the client machines running. Now, if a client machine goes down, they fix the hardware issue, press F12 and it rebuilds the machine automatically... And in the meantime the user can continue working on another machine.

      There is some Linux expertise in the country, nearly all of it in the capital; I would expect some of the missionary organisations here also have Linux setups. However, there is no real support for Linux, whereas there are plenty of MCSE qualified people and companies that provide resources for Microsoft setups. If the whole thing went up in flames and the techs weren't confident of their ability to resurrect the system, I'm sure that they could hire someone from the capital to correct the problem. With Linux, they'd have to bring in someone from Australia...

      Some of the more interesting issues we have to deal with include: we recently managed to organise a permanent connection - 64kbit (compressed to roughly 100kbit on average), shared with 4 other large organisations in town. It's actually cheaper than dialup. However, this permanent connection will be unavailable for roughly 40-50 hours per month as the telecommunications out of the city go down (batteries not charging at a repeater apparently). We still pay almost US$1 per megabyte over our monthly 1GB download quota... MS service packs take up much of that, but in my experience with Linux I have had to download a whole lot more... Remote administration is an interesting issue. I sometimes ssh to a server in Australia, but typing with a lag of roughly 2 seconds is not much fun. Going the other way requires dialup -- safer than opening ports on the firewall.

      Interestingly, power has not been much of an issue. Although there are blackouts, we have both UPS and genset backups. Our old UPS (about 20 years old) died recently, and we have just had a new one installed... I have only seen a power cut at IMR once -- when the genset was being maintained at the time of a blackout. Power line filtering in front of

    11. Re:Teach them how to fish...... by Com2Kid · · Score: 1
      • Apart from the usual software armor that gets put in place, how about something like another (smallish) boot partition that holds a compressed image of the filesystem as originally installed? When you boot to that partition, all it does is dd (via bzip) a copy to your other partition and reboot. Use a bootloader menu of "Re-Install System" or something, and a few dire warnings and a password before it begins of course..


      Ok, this is scary, but in the Wonderful World of Windows this is actualy a not to uncommon way to setup systems. Upon every boot, the entire system is reimaged, with personal files being stored on a central server to avoid the wipe.
  10. Re:Okay... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    food and shelter requires $$
    $$ in today's world requires technology.

  11. 1500 refurbished Macs to Kenya by Henriok · · Score: 5, Informative

    The Swedish Mac-guru Ulf "Omar" Henriksson have single handidly shipped over 1500 used and refurbished Macs to schools, libraries and hospitals in Kenya. Every Mac was donated by Swedish individuals and businesses for this charity purpose.

    In Kenya he have educated quite a lot users and admins in the ins and outs of Mac, the Mac OS and computers in general.

    More info (in Swedish) at http://www.macs-to-africa.info/]Macs to Africa.info.

    If you have any questions, feel free to mail "Omar" at guru.macsupport(at)telia.com.

    And no.. PCs are not welome :)

    --

    - Henrik

    - when the Shadows descend -
    1. Re:1500 refurbished Macs to Kenya by Demerara · · Score: 1

      And no.. PCs are not welome :)

      This is arrogant. Here in Guyana, someone donated a bunch of AppleBooks to Amerindian villages in the hinterland. When problems arose, there was (and remains) NO Apple vendor to provide hardware or support. So the machines fell out of use.

      Think, before you donate, about support and sustainability of the project.

      Now, where's that link about the bicycle powered PC's in Vietnam?

      --
      Backward%20compatibility%20is%20over-rated
    2. Re:1500 refurbished Macs to Kenya by Cyno · · Score: 1

      I applaud your creative solution to one of the world's great problems.

      And what would that be? Now I'm curious. Is it AIDS, being gay, sex and fucking, computers, people, or all of the above?

    3. Re:1500 refurbished Macs to Kenya by Henriok · · Score: 1

      This is arrogant. Here in Guyana, someone donated a bunch of AppleBooks to Amerindian villages in the hinterland. When problems arose, there was (and remains) NO Apple vendor to provide hardware or support. So the machines fell out of use.

      Do you really think that there are lot of PC vendors in Kenya, and do you think that they give any support? Omar have provided complete education for several indivuduals who now serve as support technicians, and he has a pretty large inventory of spare parts (not all Macs are in working when donated).

      The facts remain that his installation have been working for over 5 years now, when similar PC-initiatives grinded to a halt pretty soon after initiation for variuos reasons. One is that the quality of avaiable PC hardware and competence leave everything to desire, and another one the fact that PC-folk just don't care about anything but the bottom line. This country is corrupt beyond belief and if a project like this isn't handled by enthusiasts nothing will work after some time. Some just don't care, prices went through the roof or everything got stolen.

      --

      - Henrik

      - when the Shadows descend -
    4. Re:1500 refurbished Macs to Kenya by Henriok · · Score: 1

      I applaud your creative solution to one of the world's great problems.

      Did I mention that the Macs went to hospitals and schools? What institutions would you donate to if you saw disease and ignorance as a problem?

      --

      - Henrik

      - when the Shadows descend -
  12. Funny this should come up by SkimTony · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I was discussing with a friend of mine last night about organizations such as the peace corps, and my lack of applicable skills to help an NGO (non-governmental-org, I believe). She pointed out that NGOs need people to do all the same things that we need people for here in the first world, citing that the hospital for which she had worked in Haiti required administrative staff and an IS department, despite being a hospital run by an NGO in Haiti.

    I agree that there are definitely priorities, the food and shelter bit. Also, it's remarkably difficult to give people technology when there are so many prerequisites for it. It's a tough call to make, whether www access is that helpful to people in the third world, who may not even have the necessary reading skills (language skills, too) to utilize the information they find.

    That said, if bringing technology to these people also brings literacy and knowledge, then it can be an important step in enabling these people to grow on their own.

    1. Re:Funny this should come up by lysium · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It's a tough call to make, whether www access is that helpful to people in the third world, who may not even have the necessary reading skills (language skills, too) to utilize the information they find. When dealing with populations, its best to think in percentages. Even lowly Chad has a few (okay, very few) people that could benefit from reading the news on the net; in poor countries you are simply missing the middle classes. Let's say 97% of the country is abjectly poor -- the other 3% can still be a sizeable amount of people. So there will always be benefit.

      --
      Together, we will drive the rats from the tundra.
  13. Outdated terms,,,,, by lysium · · Score: 1

    Developed Nations, Developing Nations. Communists are basically ignored.

    --
    Together, we will drive the rats from the tundra.
  14. Whoa by sw155kn1f3 · · Score: 0

    Oh yeah, the guy feels very well in said country trading glasses and whistles for significant african souls. Kind of back to the time when america was discovered.

    Actully looking at the picture with him and elephants I thought immediately "who weights more" - he or those young elephants.

    I won't comment on "hacking in the third world" at all :P

    --
    - Arwen, I'm your father, Agent Smith.
    - Well, you're just Smith, but my father is Aerosmith!
  15. vim! by Dicky · · Score: 4, Interesting
    For those of us who - for whatever reason - aren't going to go help people ourselves, you could do a lot worse than helping one of our own who asks - very politely.

    Bram Moolenaar, the author/maintainer of the amazing vim visited a school/community center/development center in Uganda a few years back, and when he returned to Europe, he, along with others, setup a charity in the Netherlands to support the center. Those who use and enjoy vim (and those who don't!) "are encouraged to make a donation for needy children in Uganda." Go to the International Child Care Fund and make a donation, or at least click through their Amazon affiliation links next time you buy something from there. That way, it doesn't even cost you anything...

    Wouldn't it be nice to Slashdot a charity with donations? :-)

    --
    Paranoia isn't an infectious condition, it's a way of life
    1. Re:vim! by Theodore+Logan · · Score: 1

      Am I the only one creeped out by the fact the author of vim is even remotely related to introducing people to computers and computing?

      You vim zealots could try to imagine how you'd feel if RMS strolled around Uganda forcing people to talk about GNU/Clean Water and introucing them to C-x before showing the power switch.

      --

      "If you think education is expensive, try ignorance" - Derek Bok

  16. Re:Hey! Didn't you read that e-mail? by Surak · · Score: 4, Funny
    It says:


    PLEASE, THIS TRANSACTION REQUIRES ABSOLUTE CONFIDENTIALITY AND YOU
    WOULD BE EXPECTED TO TREAT IT AS SUCH UNTILL THE FUNDS ARE MOVED OUT
    OF THIS COUNTRY.


    and

    PLEASE, YOU WILL ALSO IGNORE THIS LETTER AND RESPECT OURTRUST IN YOU
    BY NOT EXPOSING THIS TRANSACTION, EVEN IF YOU ARE NOT INTERESTED.
    I LOOK FORWARD TO WORKING WITH YOU.


    So you go ahead and post it on Slashdot! Like no one's gonna see it there! Sheesh! Remind me never to ask you for help moving my money out of the country! It's not like they send those e-mails to just ANYBODY ya know!

  17. Ghana's New Hope: Ballmer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny
    As reported here, the economy in Ghana is in serious need of help.

    The town is more like an overgrown and crowded village, with goats, dogs and chickens rooting around for scraps, and herds of bony cattle strolling along the streets.
    Ballmer's travel agent confessed, "With so many poor and helpless goats, Steve will be sure to visit and pump some badly needed funds into the local economy, in exchange for certain favors." Ballmer could not be reached for comment.
  18. IT helps the whold country by kryliss · · Score: 4, Interesting

    If they are able to get internet, power, "e-commerce" etc... up and running then these "3rd world" nations will be able to start making money which will in turn open up jobs where people will have money to spend to buy and produce things like food and shelter or better tools to produce these things.

    That's just my ($1.00 - $.98 tax) worth

    --
    --- If the bible proves the existence of God, then Superman comics prove the existence of Superman.
    1. Re:IT helps the whold country by kryliss · · Score: 1

      It helps the whold country..... Guess I forgot to put my middle finger up....

      --
      --- If the bible proves the existence of God, then Superman comics prove the existence of Superman.
    2. Re:IT helps the whold country by heff · · Score: 2, Funny

      just imagine.. being able to buy those little carved giraffes straight from kenya instead of going through intermediaries like e-bay and pier one imports..

      one day.. one day..

      --

      --

      |-_-| . o O ( bEef!)

    3. Re:IT helps the whold country by Ratphace · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      Make money? Selling what? Dust? Bones of animals and people that didn't have any food? Let's be serious, these people have about as much use for the Internet as a Jew would have for a neo-nazi rally flyer. Let's start with fundamentals like food, water, clothing, shelter and for God's sake, BIRTH CONTROL! Just a thought :)

    4. Re:IT helps the whold country by warrped · · Score: 1

      I agree in principle, but having spent two years in a failing West African nation (go Peace Corps!) I'd have to say that the picture really isn't that simple. Assuming your nation isn't run by thugs and Kleptocrats (and it's a rare African nation that isn't), and that you have a viable infrastructure, and that the Old & New world aren't bleeding your market with unfair trade restrictions, and that your population has at least a baseline education, and that America isn't warping your economy with no-strings-attached foreign aid (a discussion in-and-of itself), THEN you have the possibility of this actually proving its worth.
      I still think Geekcorps' a great idea; building a solid economic base is the only realistic means of sustainable development. But until the major players make major changes in how they deal with 3rd World nations, GC will at best benefit a tiny percentage of a few lucky nations.

      --
      - Bachelorhood is the father of necessity.
  19. Re:It's obvious by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That O'Reilly simply is a money grubbing corporation. Why? You may ask, well i'll tell you. In 1998, they allied with Microsoft to slander open-source, but jumped the boat on it when it became the next big thing, as we now know. It's good they're doing so much to help Linux, but I just thought you guys should know their past.

    Yes it's totally obvious, the facts you've presented have me totally convinced that Tim O'Rielly is a money-grubbing Microsoft peon.

    What a blind fool I've been.. I thought that O'Reilly hosted the first Open Source Summit back in 1998, and that Tim O'Reilly the wrote a letter to Microsoft critizing their stance on OSS, revealed in the "Halloween documents".

    But now I am enlightend! Thanks mister troll!

  20. Fabulous Article by Demerara · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I came to Guyana, South America in 1995, having worked in telecoms for 6 years. They had no internet access - not a single link. I used to dial Barbados and collect my email. Surfing was an expensive luxury. Still, managed to get the newspaper I was working for on the web (now Stabroek News).

    The O'Reilly article is wonderful - clearly shows that the digital divide will not be bridged by IBM or Micro$oft and that hardware is not the answer - skill transfer is. Also shows how reliable power is not a given in developing countries (and, of course post-Enron California...

    Now we have ADSL, satellite, fibre (Americas II). Still regular blackouts though.

    Check out the Guyana SDNP, the UNDP Digital initiative.

    --
    Backward%20compatibility%20is%20over-rated
    1. Re:Fabulous Article by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No offense, but the "skill transfer" has stopped before the web-site of that newspaper was created...

  21. Re:Okay... by jon787 · · Score: 2, Funny

    Give man a fire and he'll be warm for the night, set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life :)

    Of course the grandparent does bring up a good point, i don't think these computers are going to people who desperately need the three basic necessities. I for one would really like to some first-hand experience over there, but I don't have the time to do it yet. I have a friend who went with his family to Bangladesh for a year when he was in 8th grade.

    --
    X(7): A program for managing terminal windows. See also screen(1).
  22. Heh, by smoondog · · Score: 1

    Let the Junis jokes begin...

    -Sean

  23. THIRD WORLD GEEK LUST ITEMS by _ph1ux_ · · Score: 2, Funny

    Check out my new case modded rice cooker!!

    1. Re:THIRD WORLD GEEK LUST ITEMS by cmathison · · Score: 1

      Only if they are using AMD's :-)

    2. Re:THIRD WORLD GEEK LUST ITEMS by dogfart · · Score: 1

      And for those all-nighter programming sessions, Khat instead of Jolt Cola.

      --

      "dope will get you through times of no money better than money will get you through times of no dope"

  24. Re:Okay... by Gortbusters.org · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Wait, I thought we didn't geek in the third world, we fabricated reasons for war and then went in and took their oil?

    --
    --------
    Free your mind.
  25. Teach them today. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And some years later they'll outsource our job to Uganda.

  26. Re:Okay... by Planx_Constant · · Score: 2

    Greater *desire* for food and shelter? Or greater ability to obtain food and shelter? Because I think there's nothing like famine and homelessness to increase desire for food and shelter.

    --
    Heisenberg might have been here.
  27. REQUEST FOR URGENT BUSINESS RELATIONSHIP by Mogomra · · Score: 1

    Hey, maybe once Ghana gets their IT infrastructure up to speed, they can launch their own version of the Nigerian Email Scam.

    Unfortunately this says "the lack of a well-developed financial infrastructure limits the country's utility as a money-laundering center". Bummer.

  28. Engineers Without Borders by Theodore+Logan · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Maybe these guys deserve attention, but not nearly as much as Engineers Without Borders. It may be considered trolling on Slashdot, but to most people it is obvious that there are more urgent problems for many of these countries/cities/villages than lack of Internet access.

    --

    "If you think education is expensive, try ignorance" - Derek Bok

    1. Re:Engineers Without Borders by hopeless+case · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Thanks for the pointer to their web site. I really like what they are doing.

      I'd like to respond to your point though.

      Money can buy food and water and shelter. So if you can make it possible for some of the brighter people in a poor country to earn money, then you are helping with the 'more important' stuff.

      Even in the poorest countries, you will find a lot of bright young people sitting around with nothing to do. Of all the resources going to waste, surely that is one of the most valuable.

      One of the amazing things about programming is that all you need is to be bright, access to a computer and documentation, and time and you can teach yourself.

      I don't think someone who travels to a poor country and spends their time teaching programming should feel bad they are not tilling the fields instead.

    2. Re:Engineers Without Borders by NineNine · · Score: 1

      So you teach these people programming so they can do what, exactly...?

    3. Re:Engineers Without Borders by ainsoph · · Score: 1

      Start their own business's for example. I mean just because its third world and little infrastructure does not mean that there are no computers. Take Nepal for example, one of the poorest countries in the world. They have plenty of computers and computer systems. Cos while people are starving in the rural areas, Westernization is still taking hold. There are offices to book reservations, inventory to track, orders to fill, transactions to record, etc. Even in the world most depressed countries its not all "Trenchtown Rock".

      My argument for this computer usage, training etc is that if these people are taught IT Fluency, and brought Open Source, then the opportunity for them to create their own systems, and thus business's becomes much greater. Give them Windows and the Microsoft paradigm, and you create more slave labor potential, and the ability for US based business to infuse the area which non-local (highly paid) middle managment. Nothing spells exploitation like that.

    4. Re:Engineers Without Borders by KrispyKringle · · Score: 2, Insightful
      I'm involved in an organization which takes corporate-donated computers (and funds), refurbishes them, and installs them in educational centers, schools, Head Start centers, and the like in various cities in the US, as well as on various trips abroad (this summer to Ghana, previously to Ghana, India, Thailand, and Equador). I've often debated that which you mention, whether it is better for me to be doing this or something more important. After all, how can I feel I am doing the right thing when I see a homeless man outside the school I am putting a computer in?

      My feeling is that I don't have skills worth much for some problems. I'm not a doctor or a civil engineer. I can't treat sickness or starvation, and if I were to try, my labor would be little more than manual labor that anyone can do. To be utterly cold and calculating about it, I'd be doing work worth, say, 5 bucks an hour. But when I do this, with what skills I have, I'm donating time worth well more than that, and donating, hopefully, something many times more valuable.

      Many people say that when we bridge the "digital divide" and allow uneducated, agrarian people to take part in the 21st century economy, we are helping to solve their food and medical problems in the long run by solving their poverty. Certainly there is some truth to this; as the old adage goes, when you teach a man to fish, you feed him for his life. This isn't my motivation, though. My motivation is just to do what I can. There are many kinds of service, but I think giving people the opportunity to help people in the ways they know how is best. I know many people who were extremely enthusiastic participants when they found out they could serve the community in a way they were suited to, rather than simply handing out meals at a soup kitchen or pushing around boxes at a food bank.

  29. to hear some people talk around here... by hopeless+case · · Score: 5, Funny

    this guy should be admonished for attempting to teach IT skills to a third world country. Next thing you know, greedy american companies will be outsourcing IT or programming work to people in Ghana for pennies and letting 3 well-paid American programmers go.

    For the sarsacm inpaired, I think what this guy is doing is great. What I don't think is great is the guild/labor mentailty of some programmers and IT people who think there is a fixed amount of wealth in the world.

    1. Re:to hear some people talk around here... by vv2 · · Score: 1

      Ah - so that's why the US is trying to force the rest of the world to accept GM crops (http://www.foe.co.uk/resource/press_releases/us_f iles_wto_gm_complaint0.html)- once all the IT jobs have been outsourced the US makes sure it the food production is beholden to US giants, and anyway, after a generation or half their farming systems will be in the state as the US...

  30. Re: IT helps the whole country -- An Example by namtrop · · Score: 1
    For an example of the downstream catalyzing effects of infrastructure and applications (more on that in a sec), check out Digital Divide Data in Cambodia.

    The key is in investing in both the INFRASTRUCTURE (computers, networks, etc) and the APPLICATIONS (value-creating services that use the infrastructure).

  31. Re:Okay... by MrMrBen · · Score: 3, Interesting

    You can use the Internet to find information about things besides the latest NVIDIA chip or whether or not JFK had an affair with an itern. From what I understand, the reasons why developing countries are "developing" instead of "developed" aren't simply that it's physically impossible for them to produce enough food or shelter. It seems to me that Internet access could be more useful than a shipment of grain and medical supplies. As we all know, there's a lot of useful information available on the Internet, not to mention the ability to organize political and social organizations quickly and cheaply. From what I hear a lot of donations of food or medical supplies end up getting stolen or wasted anyway.

  32. 3 basic necessities by 2names · · Score: 1

    You mean there are people who don't need Mountain Dew, Funyuns and Porn?

    --
    "I'm just here to regulate funkiness."
    1. Re:3 basic necessities by jon787 · · Score: 1

      It is pr0n, get it right!

      --
      X(7): A program for managing terminal windows. See also screen(1).
  33. Re:It's obvious by DarkOx · · Score: 1

    I don't know the history of O'Reilly press so I can't comment on if what you say is true or not, but some of us have this idea of forgiveness and that people/corporations can make amends. So even if they did once slander open soure they have since relized they were wrong and reformed their ways to become one of the strongest proponents. They are helping us now and have been long enough that I am convinced they are more then just fair weather friends and we should embrace them. Hell if Microsoft wants to reform their ways I will take them back and happily drop my prejustices agains their product and would consider it on equal terms with anything else.

    --
    Repeal the 17th Amendment TODAY! Also Please Read http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
  34. Sarcasm, anyone? by elefantstn · · Score: 1

    For Christ's sake, I was being sarcastic. I was mocking the inevitable 300 comments denouncing anyone trying to do any good for the Third World in the technology sphere by saying "But they need food and water first!"

    Moderators around here are smoking the cheap crack.

    --
    If it ain't broke, you need more software.
  35. *ahem* by Sheetrock · · Score: 1
    Is aid money being spent on this IT effort? (yes, if you RTFA)

    Are there better things the money can be spent on? (yes, their infrastructure can't even handle electricity properly: do you prefer a functioning hospital or a functioning Internet cafe?)

    Does an HIV sufferer need to learn how to set up antialiased fonts in X?

    --

    Try not. Do or do not, there is no try.
    -- Dr. Spock, stardate 2822-3.




    1. Re:*ahem* by hazem · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It is nearly impossible to stop all hunger and disease - look at many 1st world nations that have not accomplished this.

      If your philosophy is not to spend money on anything else until everyone is fed and healthy, then all you'll ever do is give out food and medicine. You'll never spend money on technology or infrastructure because there will always be at least one more hungry or sick person.

      There was a program to distribute cellphones to remote villages in India. You might say they shouldn't do that because there is still unclean water, polio, and hunger. But the villages that received the phones prospered directly from them. Most importantly, they were able to call into the markets of the larger towns to find out how much their crops were selling for. In the past, the middle-men who would transport these crops to the market would pay only what they had to and would make lots of money. Now these middle-men make the money for transporting the goods, but the village most often gets a much better price. The village is now more self-sufficient and can make their own improvements in their living conditions.

      By your philosophy, this would never have happened and they would be beholden the the middlemen who ripped them off, and the international aid agencies that would only give them food.

      And again, there is little I can do to treat an HIV sufferer. But who knows. Mabye I could teach her to develop webpages and she can do something rewarding and even a bit profitable with her life. Would you have her simply waste away in a hospital? What kind of a life is that?

      I can only do what I know how to do. I don't know how to teach better farming or even how to set up water purification, and nor could most geeks. These geeks go and do what they can. By improving one aspect, hopefully the whole system improves.

    2. Re:*ahem* by DJPenguin · · Score: 1

      Does an HIV sufferer need to learn how to set up antialiased fonts in X?

      Well why the hell not? What would you rather they do, sit in the corner and die quietly?

  36. I'll agree by chonny69 · · Score: 1

    life in the third world is inconvenient for computers and computer users. i live in mexico, not quite the third world country you would imagine, but nonetheless we experience random power outages with no viable explanation. it's frustrating to be working on something or just plain writing an email and POOF! lights go out for who knows how long. *shrugs* just my two cents

    1. Re:I'll agree by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Perhaps you should start a business reselling UPS systems so people can have that magic 30 seconds to backup up their work before the computer goes down.

  37. data retrieval according to junis by Bold+Marauder · · Score: 1

    1)dig in back yard with shovel 2) ??? 3) C64!

    1. Re:data retrieval according to junis by PyroMosh · · Score: 1

      Sure, when you put it like that, it sounds silly. Stupid even.

      It was under the chicken coop.

  38. Geek out of place by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Surely this is a contradiction because geeks are the very products of our very rich, western world.

    eg: People with too much time and money.

    How many Africans do you know that waste huge loads of time and resources on creating scale-models of popular star-ships?

    eg: You damn Star Wars fans!

  39. Other problems by asadodetira · · Score: 2, Informative

    Beyond power, other problem in dev. countries is harder or expensive to get parts when you are building something. I worked in a data acquisition project in south america and we used to request free samples from chipmakers. Now it's harder, some only ship to U.S.

  40. Forget them Third World Countries.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Bring some of that magic IT money to the US. Aint seen any of that lately. Fear them comercials saying "Learn Computers Skills for your great job tomorrow!". I learn them skills, tomorrow just hasn't come yet.

  41. geeking for an isp in 'third world' by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I worked for an ISP in Dar es Salaam for a little over a year. I highly recommend it to anyone who enjoys having responsibility, freedom to innovate and a steep learning curve. This whole 'does a lot of work for charity' thing gives me the creeps though. Businesses are businesses, even in Africa. Sure, there is a huge skills gap - so if you want to plug it flash your CV around every ISP you can find and you're bound to get lucky. NGOs are just a source of free money/skills and they don't make business sense. As an IT professional you're a valuable commodity - so I don't see why anyone from the States or elsewhere should be paid less than the going local rate for their work - let alone why the business you're working for shouldn't pay you. In the long term, providing cut-rate western expertise to businessmen in the developing world just makes the rich richer.

    And lastly, as we all know, you can't be taught the skills you need to be a sysadmin - you have to learn them by yourself. All the guys i met in tanzania had taught themselves from scratch because they realised they were onto a winner.

  42. Re:Okay... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Seriously though, technology encourages a greater desire for food and shelter.

    ???

    ???

    Or, let me put it this way: ?!!

    Would you be so kind a produce any kind of argument, evidence or even flimsy conspiracy theory for that completely bizarre statement?

    The rest of your post was funny though.

  43. Fear of "Cultural homogenization"=Western Bigotry by reallocate · · Score: 2, Insightful

    >> ,,, cultural homogenization!

    The 21st Century's version of White Man's Burden.

    It takes a fair amount of Western arrogance and bigotry to decide what's best for someone else. Let people decide for themselves what they want.

    And, I know that's difficult for people who think that non-Westerners aren't really up to the job and have to be protected by "enlightened" anti-corporate well-fed Westerners.

    --
    -- Slashdot: When Public Access TV Says "No"
  44. 3rd-world countries are an eye-opener by 4minus0 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    If you've never been to a third-world country and you have a chance to go, please go.

    I recently (fall 2002) went to Nicaragua to do research for a website for a Nicaraguan mission group. In reality I somewhat disagree with what they're doing, my friend and I joked that it was the Inquisition all over again. Anyway...

    The first thing you notice upon landing in Managua is how unbelievably poor everybody is. Sure there were a few people in suits but most people were wearing T-shirts that had obviously come from the U.S. (high school reunion shirts, prom night shirts from high schools in Virginia).

    We stayed in Leon and the people there had no concept of a computer, they damn sure knew what a camera was though! It's completely unbelievable to someone from the States to see how they live. But they don't know any different, so they're happy, or at least content.

    Some of the kids had never seen television so when we taped them on DV and played it back for them on the spot they went apeshit. Most of the people in the outskirts of Leon just steal electricity by throwing wires across the main lines. We saw a dog that had been in the way of one of these wires and it was burned clean in half. The poles that hold the wires up are usually just sticks or the wires are stapled into a tree. Unbelievable.

    A country like Nicaragua needs more infrastructure before a truckload of computers would do them any good. Good luck getting that truckload of computers through customs anyway. The mission group we're doing the website for had the damndest time getting a container of clothes and miscellaneous goods through customs.

    The best part of the trip was riding around the streets of Managua with our driver California... that kid could outdrive Colin McRae, I shit you not. We'd be doing 120KM/hr through the busiest street I've ever seen anywhere and he's hanging out the window singing Nelly (andale andale uh-oh... you know the song) Christ that was funny.

    I should probably tell my side of the trip on my own site but I guess the mission site will have to do, due to my laziness.

    --
    You've got an easy breezy wind at your back...most of the time.
  45. Which Guyana by jjga · · Score: 1

    As far as I know, there are three different countries in South America where Guyana is part of their names: Frech Guyana, Surinam or Dutch Guyana, and British Guyana. But I might be wrong. Can you clarifiy it for me? Thanks.

    1. Re:Which Guyana by akintayo · · Score: 1

      there is one Guyana.

      There is also French Guiana, there is no British or Dutch Guiana. And there have not existed since the 60s

      --
      Woe be on to them, all who rise against poor people, shall perish in a the end. Buju Banton
  46. Isn't that dangerous? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    In USA, big companies are pushing for unfair laws (DCMA, DRM etc.), but you guys have strong civilian supported organizations to confront that (EFF, FSF etc.). Isn't it dangerous to help 3rd world countries to develop IT companies before those countries get a "software aware" population? Aren't all those countries laws going to be made by companies alone?

  47. Re:First Neil Young post by D_Gr8_BoB · · Score: 1
    That's one more kid that'll never go to school
    Never get to fall in love
    Never get to be cool

    Although really, the last two are inevitably the result of geeking pretty much anywhere.

  48. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  49. But their relevance doesn't make them correct by Sabu+mark · · Score: 1

    nor does it invalidate someone's annoyance with them.

    Here's an example from part-time comedian, full-time leftist David Cross: When someone says "Dude, that was so funny I literally shit my pants!" you still understand what he means, but that doesn't mean his usage of "literally" is in any way correct or commendable.

    --

    What Would Jesus Do
    (for a Klondike bar)?
    1. Re:But their relevance doesn't make them correct by skarmor · · Score: 1

      He can be annoyed all he wants, but his post stated that he was annoyed because the terms "first world" ... are invalid. This is clearly not the case as evidenced by the fact that they convey their generally accepted meaning. In your example we understand what the person is saying DESPITE the fact that the meaning of the word "literally" is not conveying its generally accepted meaning.....Nice Straw Man argument though...props to you and thanks for playing

  50. I love Neil Young! by Sabu+mark · · Score: 1

    Keep on geeking in the Third World!...
    (repeat 32 times)

    --

    What Would Jesus Do
    (for a Klondike bar)?
  51. And of course, this article just begs for it.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yes.. I can see it.
    Nigerian money scam all over again, but from more sources.

    I'll be the first to have a webcam in my hut!

    --
    Almost serious.

  52. ISO distros are definitely the way to go. by greenguitar · · Score: 1

    You can't possibly screw up a CD, short of scratching it to hell. Knoppix kicks ass, Morphix is coming along well... I use Knoppix to convert my friends, I let them try Knoppix and if they like it I talk them into letting me install a dual boot :-) Even the dumbest windows dummy can get Knoppix working. All you need is simple ways to save to the hard drive, I haven't really played around with that so it might already be easy. The main problem I suppose is that old machines already run slow, running them off a CD would be even slower... so I guess you just stick the image on the hard drive.

    --
    RUMP Refuse to Use Microsoft Products
  53. Re:Fear of "Cultural homogenization"=Western Bigot by Lazyhound · · Score: 1

    Excuse me?

    I'm sorry that I take offense at the further expansion of a gluttonous Western society that prefers to gorge itself on everything available to it without thought for the future.

    I'm sorry that I take offense at the further expansion of a morally bankrupt Western society that places the dollar above all else.

    I'm sorry that I take offense at the further expansion of a pampered Western society that is only able to carry on its lifestyle with the labour of the less "fortunate".

    I'm sorry that I take offense at the further expansion of a Western society that has to have an entertainment industry to satisfy its need for pleasure.

    And I think it takes a fair amount of Western arrogance and bigotry to think that we're better off than they are, you smug, jingoistic, ass.

  54. The paralells are there... by EverDense · · Score: 1

    Just like Catholicism and the other Christian religions, the IT industry knows that a
    significant part of its future lies in the third world.

    Only difference is that they send nobody missionaries, we send somebody millionaires.

    --
    http://jesus.everdense.com/
  55. Re:Fear of "Cultural homogenization"=Western Bigot by reallocate · · Score: 1

    Then you offended by things that don't exist.

    (Probably due to being brainwashed by pompous guilt-ridden and arrogantly bigoted academic types. Haven't been in the Bay Area lately, by any chance?)

    Western technology, culture, commerce and government means Westerners are healthier, better educated, longer lived, and more independent than people trapped in Third World countries. That's a simple truth.

    As for myself, I am offended by the anti-Western, anti-globalization know-nothing racist rhetoric spouted by pampered self-loathing white Westerners who blithely deny the value of eveything accomplished in the last 500 years and assume that only they know what's best for their poor non-white Third World brethern. Most of this crowd hates progress so much that they'd prefer to keep their "brothers" in their place tied to subsistence farming, poking sticks in the gorund, so long as they and their buddies can put on their Birkenstocks and fire up the BMW.

    It is all founded in racism.

    --
    -- Slashdot: When Public Access TV Says "No"
  56. power by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    makes this first-worlder grateful for a regular power supply."

    Living in California did the same for me.

  57. "Nerds" only exist here by fractaltiger · · Score: 3, Interesting

    It is interesting that in the third world there is no such thing as the nerd. Before coming to America, people who were socially inept and shy were just that, socially inept and shy... and studious. There is no derogatory term for them like nerds and geeks here in the us.

    This brings up another point: why make a term for something that should be good for our society since it brings social change locally (a community grows more advanced and probably more educated) and globally at the scale of the country, when we can go into technical jobs that pull the economy forward?

    Actually, if my parents knew of the connotations of the word geek or nerd when I was growing up, they would probably have rubbed it in and warned against it. But they just wonder why I spend so much time working on CPUs and reading and find it strange, not knowing how many equally conditioned people we have out there. Good that they could not call me a "geek" in spanish, even in good will because the lack of the CONCEPT helped me to not feel singled out in society.

    --
    "Wireless : LAN :: Laptop : Desktop"
  58. Think further out and with an open mind by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    about 15 Years--once a true global network is in place, and you have a device with the equivalent of a T1 connected to the network. It's the size of a palm pilot with hi-res screen and can run for a month on a single battery. It has full video/audio capture/receive and runs equivalent to our current 5GHz processors.

    At current rates of progress, this will be available between 15 and 20 years from now, for equivalent to about $40.

    I'm sorry, but technology is going to yank every third world nation (and basically all of us) onto the same "platform". Introducing people to these technologies now, however premature they might seem, is a good idea.

    Sometimes it's edifying to open yourself up to other fantastic possibilities for our planet... maybe we can make this world into a better place. The pessimism will only slow us down.

  59. Re:Ease of use by lysium · · Score: 2, Insightful
    The "ease of use" they are looking for is not the same "ease of use" that a Thai peasant using a P-166 (32 megs of ram, lets say) would be looking for. Linux companies (who want money) are looking to capture postindustrial office workers and particularly stupid consumers. So they are not really the best example for this case.

    And by geek volunteers, do you mean the young, idealist sort? Or the older, wiser, professional, and still idealist sort? The GeekCorps website stresses that it generally declines volunteers who do not have at least 3 to 4 years of work experience under their belt. Idealism does not build irrigation systems, nor does it build efficient information systems. Unfortunately, it takes alot of idealism to work so hard for so little physical reward....it is hard to keep that alive inside of you once you are skilled enough to really make a difference.

    But in a more technical sense, much more can be accomplished by using stolid, unixy tools over guiy, themeable tools. Shells scripts and ncurses menus, written in the local tongue (if possible), with simple editors like nano, and browsers like lynx, will not be able to WYSIWYG or play flash, but it will transmit and store information, and probably never, ever, break.

    ----------------

    --
    Together, we will drive the rats from the tundra.
  60. cost is relative by zogger · · Score: 1

    --what's really nice about solar power is how incredibly fast it can be up and running, the almost complete lack of any significant maintenance, and that it actually produces a lot of useful power, especially when you gots *no* power onsite, and onsite can be anyplace the sun shines fairly regularly. Fuel gennys take constant refueling, fuel is expensive enough most places, and they break down fairly regularly until you get into the higher end models. Solar and wind are just great for getting some power to remote places, and to serve as decent backups for primary grid developed areas. And as to the "payback", sure, the stats are correct,turen it around, how much do you get from the normal household variety of consumer junk? How much from some solar PV compared to the amount of power you get out of your 50 inch TV with stereo and tivo??? Or the ordinary shingles on the roof? The jetski? And a lot of other consumer devices? You know what I mean.

    You see, we blow the energy produced from oil and nukes, etc on tons of other stuff, stuff that once built, that took tons of energy to build and created pollution and whatnot, that just keeps TAKING power, never gives any back, that never ever is going to give you even a 1% energy "payback", well that one thing could be "sacraficed" instead to get some back. If everone picked out just *one* of their non energy-producing (yes, I know, converting) toys,and got solar or wind or whatever with the same loot, the huge influx of interest and cash and demand just might spur on a little more R &D of the productive sort. And perhaps donate it to some poor village someplace? 1/2 maybe? One decent medium sized panel runs US retail around 200$, a charge controller under 100$, and any old truck battery can be scrounged in even a third world country. You're in business. that's what guys routinely pay for just a video card. skip one generation of 'game" upgrade, get some starter interest solar instead, it'scool, and you can do stuff with it. or donate it. Tithing is a good thing. That's enough juice to run a small laptop for several hours a day, give some place some outside interactive access to the entire world. Lot of knowledge to share then. Or run the HAM radio there, or some lights for people to read at night after working stoop labor all day in the fields, or for the local medic to be able to work. Stuff like that. No giant remote expensive plants to build, no huge amounts of wires to run, with poles and transformers and etc.

    Living with it daily myself, I can tell you you learn to appreciate every watt, and you can still geek-out with it, just not as much as people who are rich and can just throw a small part of their check at the electric bill, but it's NICE to have *some* elelctricity, and the bulk of the planet still lives where that is fairly primitive and expensive. That is an exact reason why it's still cool, practical, worth it. I like it because I always have power, even if the local grid goes down, and it's clean power, none of this brownout dirty power action. I started with one panel and my truck battery though, but that was enough for my little TV, a light to read with at night and my radio. cool beans. I imagine for some villages it might be just the ticket. A million dollar electric plant might be out of the question, but a few thou worth of solar and gear might be doable and enough to get by on.

  61. Re:Fear of "Cultural homogenization"=Western Bigot by Lazyhound · · Score: 1
    I find your bigotocentric world view amusing. Bay area? I grew up on a farm, dude. Ain't no academics plantin' taters there. Hyuck.

    Western technology, culture, commerce and government means Westerners are healthier, better educated, longer lived, and more independent than people trapped in Third World countries. That's a simple truth.
    Yup. Do you care to wager how long the planet can support 300 million people living the American lifestyle, not even counting other current and future first world countries?

    As for myself, I am offended by the anti-Western, anti-globalization know-nothing racist rhetoric spouted by pampered self-loathing white Westerners who blithely deny the value of eveything accomplished in the last 500 years and assume that only they know what's best for their poor non-white Third World brethern. Most of this crowd hates progress so much that they'd prefer to keep their "brothers" in their place tied to subsistence farming, poking sticks in the gorund, so long as they and their buddies can put on their Birkenstocks and fire up the BMW
    Man, get it through your head. I'm not saying we should hold back all technology from the third world. I'm saying we should take a lesson from them, in terms of our waste and excess. Frankly, I dislike the Internet. I don't want to hold it back from them, I'd as soon it not exist. But that's a whole other can of worms. And how the hell would this be holding them down? I'm sure the point has been made dozens of times in other comments, but I think we ought to at least start with the food, medicine, (non-telecommunications) infrastructure, and the like before bothering with frivolities like the Internet.

    Another point I failed to properly address in my previous post was your attack on the fears of homogenization. Your point of view seems to be that there is nothing worth preserving, and that to want to prevent the Americanization streamroller from passing though is, through some queer twist of logic, racism. Er, right. You realize it should be possible to help them in raising their average standard of living without culturally assimilating them, right?

    As for "blithely denying the value of everything accomplished in the past 500 years"... Think of the next five hundred. You know those rainforests? The ones being chopped down to grow McDonalds hamburgers? You realize that stuff doesn't grow back, right? Once the bare ground is exposed, the rain leeches the soil nutrients down to the bedrock, making it infertile. It's why they have to burn so much of it. Do you think that five hundred years from now, people will be looking back at us as favourably as you do at our predecessors?
    It is all founded in racism.
    Real classy, there. "I disagree with you, therefore, um... OMG WTF YUPPIE RACIST PIG!!!11!!one!!!11!".

    P.S.,
    What the fuck are Birkenstocks?
  62. Information on Volunteering by jcravens42 · · Score: 1
    If you are interested in volunteering in an under-developed country to help build people's capacities to apply ICTs to the areas and issues of greatest concern to them -- education, HIV/AIDS, agriculture, environment, etc. -- have a look at the United Nations Information Technology Service web site. UNITeS has placed and supported more than 150 volunteers in more than a dozen developing countries, and is part of the United Nations Volunteers program.


    If you would like to help the developing world as a volunteer but not have to travel, UNV also has an online volunteering service through NetAid. Online assignments are both "techie" (build a web site, build a database, trouble-shoot tech issues) and non "techie" (translate a document from one language to another, design a logo, mentor a student, write an article, etc.).

    --
    J Cravens http://www.coyotecommunications.com
  63. Water adaptation... by hughk · · Score: 1
    Yes, local water can upset foreign stomachs but most locals can tolerate it. However, not the young, the old nor the very ill.

    Fun thing is that juts stick the water into a clear polythene container (not too large), leave it for eight hour in the sunshine and the UV kills most of the bacterial spores

    Once you have the runs, it is nasty as you dehydrate and it kills the vulnerable, again, easy to fix with the right sugar/salt ration in soime relative clean water (see above).

    All of this, plus many other things are factoids that exist on the web. You can teach some of these things but not all. This is where literacy is important and access to information.

    --
    See my journal, I write things there
  64. My experience in Haiti as a Geek by IceAgeComing · · Score: 1


    I've spent months as a child of medical volunteers in Ethiopia and Haiti and wanted to give other geeks a little insight into what it's like to be in these kinds of places. Geeks might feel especially anxious about a massive change of scenery. I want to argue that in some ways, geeks are the best cultural ambassadors we have and have a great deal to gain from trying. Read on.

    I consider myself a pretty typical geek: studious my whole life, had few friends, greatly appreciate my alone time when I can get it, lack of social sophistication, lack of desire to become socially sophisticated.

    I was 18 in my last trip to Haiti, so you might keep in mind that my sense of self was still quite green. At first, there was a sense of complete shock at how different people's lives are from those I knew growing up in the U.S. It was like going to another planet. This was both exciting and overwhelming for the first few days. As a geek, I think I was less prepared than others for the powerful effect another cultural mindset can have. My shields were not at 100%, let's say.

    As an example, at first it was very hard for me to be the target of panhandling from children: children without shoes asking you for your shoes, your watch, your shirt, any change you can spare. I came to eventually see myself as an actor acting out the part of an elite individual saying "no" to almost all of them, but it took a while to overcome the resentment I felt for being put into this position whether I liked it or not. I eventually learned to make it a kind of game where I would try to divert the flow of events by making them laugh at something unexpected I did, or I would ask them if I could join in on their soccer game with a tennis ball, and then it would turn into great fun. I could go on about how incredibly good-natured some of these super-skinny kids with ragged clothes were. The ones who couldn't be bothered to talk about something besides handouts were likely to leave after a few minutes of my attempts at diversion. Those that stuck around were more likely to follow me back to the house where we were staying to get some small food item or toy. Even simple things like yarn were considered very cool at times.

    There was a two week period where I felt a sense of depression because it seemed completely arbitrary that I got to sit in an air-conditioned room in a house, eating and drinking good food whenever I wanted, while countless numbers of people just as deserving as me were going hungry and yet somehow managed to get up every and make the best of it. It probably didn't help that we were there to help at a hospital, where I got to see very sick people struggling to live. The worst were the small children in the burn ward who were often there because illness is sometimes treated with superstitious practices of throwing children into fires, perhaps to exorcise demons.

    OK, I think I described my depression pretty well in that last paragraph, but I don't want to overpower my comments with negativity. So I'll move onto what was so great about what I did and why I think every person in the U.S., especially geeks, should try going to a developing country, preferable before they get too old and set in their ways.

    It was an experience that has absolutely changed my life. Perhaps it was because I was a geek, but I found myself particularly affected by my exposure to different cultures. This is both good and bad: if you learn how to let it affect you positively, it's good. If you get overwhelmed and depressed from it, it's bad at least in the short term. But in either case, you're living a new experience and life seems fresh and vibrant, like you're a child learning everything for the first time again. Geeks are, I believe, especially "good" at empathy, which is the essential ingredient to building bridges across cultures. Ideally, geeks also need something like a mentor so that their idealism and empathy aren't used against them. So teaming up with other geeks with more experience is probably a really good idea.