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Promoting Musical Artists in the Post-RIAA Music World?

Mattcelt asks: "While we're all discussing the eventual demise of the RIAA and the triumph of the MP3, what should a small independent music publishing company do to sell a new artist to the public? My publishing company recently ran a $4,000 advertising campaign on a local radio station (107.9 the Link in Charlotte, NC). Despite reaching an average audience of more than 10,000 during peak times, we netted *0* sales. That's right, absolutely nothing. I've made the entire album available in MP3 format on the Ephelian Records website to facilitate adoption, and I know some people have downloaded the songs, but I can't figure out why no one has pre-ordered the CD. How does an indie artist make a living when gig prices for unknown artists will barely cover the gas money and CDs won't sell? Are we really wrong about the availability of MP3s affecting music sales?"

83 comments

  1. Ahem. by skinfitz · · Score: 5, Funny

    I've made the entire album available in MP3 format on the Ephelian Records website to facilitate adoption, and I know some people have downloaded the songs, but I can't figure out why no one has pre-ordered the CD.

    Er, dude...

    1. Re:Ahem. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm trying to figure out why no one has pre-ordered a CD containing all my slashdot posts.

    2. Re:Ahem. by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 1

      Quoth the AC:

      I'm trying to figure out why no one has pre-ordered a CD containing all my slashdot posts.

      I think you'd need more than a CD to contain all the posts by "Anonymous Coward" in the history of Slashdot. Of course, all the worthwhile posts by AC is a different matter...

      --
      If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
  2. Perhaps the talent sucks by renehollan · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Sorry to be so harsh, but as someone who has sent good money to indie artists just because I liked the MP3s I downloaded for free, if the talent is there, the dollars will follow (well, some at least).

    --
    You could've hired me.
    1. Re:Perhaps the talent sucks by Drakin · · Score: 2, Informative

      Well, after downloading one of the songs (I'm thinking that it's getting the slashdot treatment... means i should by rights look for the music on Kazzaa in moments, right?) the talent doesn't suck exaclly... but it's nothing to write home about. The singer's voice is washed away by the music, and the words seem to blur together.

      If he sang clearer, and they mixed it with the music a bit quieter, it would probably go over a lot better.

    2. Re:Perhaps the talent sucks by iCEBaLM · · Score: 1

      I think it sucks, maybe because I don't like the genre or maybe because it really does.

      Occams Razor... Simplist explaination.

      -- iCEBaLM

    3. Re:Perhaps the talent sucks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      C'mon, with ballads like these? "Baby Please don't push me/Don't ask me to go to fast/'Cause what we've got is special/And I want it to last."

      I think we've got the next bon jovi.

    4. Re:Perhaps the talent sucks by dhaines · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Of course you're not looking for music criticism on /., but I don't think your lack of orders has anything to do with MP3 availability.

      I only heard one track -- "Drop of a Hat". The song was interesting but it's crying out for some engineering work and a producer, as implied above. A few simple recording and mixing techniques would render the tune much more listenable. For me at least, it was hard to hear through the mix to decide if I even liked the song or not.

      It's cool you're trying to promote your work this way, but I get the feeling you have a "build it and they will come" kind of attitude. I don't think that approach is going to work in music -- online or off.

    5. Re:Perhaps the talent sucks by macdaddy357 · · Score: 1

      This isn't exactly Kelly Clarkson or Rueben. Folk and folksy-style music are non-profit endeavors. It will take years for such an artist to find his audience. The terms starving and artist frequently go together no matter how good an artist is.

      --
      How ya like dat?
    6. Re:Perhaps the talent sucks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think we've got the next bon jovi.

      So you are agreeing that the talent sucks.

    7. Re:Perhaps the talent sucks by Mattcelt · · Score: 1

      Hey - Bon Jovi may not have the corner on insightful lyrics, but I'll take his paycheck over mine any day!

      Have a look at "Serien" - I think you'll find it a a little deeper...

      Matt

    8. Re:Perhaps the talent sucks by Lodragandraoidh · · Score: 1

      If you are in it for the money - then you are doing it for the wrong reasons.

      --

      Lodragan Draoidh
      The more you explain it, the more I don't understand it. - Mark Twain
    9. Re:Perhaps the talent sucks by Cmarsh · · Score: 1

      I think it has to do with the site featuring the mp3s. Some sites just list mp3s, while other's list mp3s and promote the bands and their CDs. SonicAwareness.com is one I can think of off hand.

    10. Re:Perhaps the talent sucks by EvilSporkMan · · Score: 1

      Well, there's being in it for the money...and there's needing to make enough to get along. Since these guys (girls? haven't listened) are indies I think we should cut them some slack, especially since the complaint is ZERO sales.

      --
      -insert a witty something-
  3. Preorder? by Drakin · · Score: 5, Informative

    Not sure, but how many people preorder anything except what they know is going to be hard to get when it first comes out, like software, consols & games, and certain books.

    Unless the band is extreamly hot and popular in the region, why would anyone bother to preorder, when they can just pick it up whenever it comes out, if they want the CD?

    1. Re:Preorder? by leviramsey · · Score: 1

      Well, checking Amazon's top-sellers in music, I see that:

      • Four out of the top 5... (three are more than a week away)
      • Five out of the top 10... (four of which are more than a week away)
      • Six out of the top 20... (five of which are more than a week away)

      Somebody's preordering CDs...

      Of course, out of those six:

      • Two are CD singles by (I think) the American Idol contestants (ie they have the Fox promotional empire behind them)
      • The remaining four (a Zeppelin live album, a Metallica album, a Jewel album, and a Radiohead album) are all by established artists with large and devoted fanbases.
  4. You've found the answer! by ShmuelP · · Score: 4, Funny

    Well, I don't know the answer for other bands, but it seems like getting linked on Slashdot is a good approach.

    --
    Solution to blink tags: wrap them in another blink tag, with a javascript delay loop, so they cancel each other out
    1. Re:You've found the answer! by aborchers · · Score: 1

      I know I'm going way off topic and maybe even violating some kind of etiquette by commenting on your sig, but I have to note that it is probably the single most poignant commentary on the sick state of "Web development" I've ever read...

      --
      Trouble making decisions? Just flip for it.
  5. Sha na na na sha na na na na... by anthony_dipierro · · Score: 4, Informative

    How does an indie artist make a living when gig prices for unknown artists will barely cover the gas money and CDs won't sell?

    Get a job.

    1. Re:Sha na na na sha na na na na... by MoOsEb0y · · Score: 1

      Get a job.

      Props to you. I don't think anyone could have stated this better.

  6. Let me get this straight.. by MoOsEb0y · · Score: 2, Insightful

    You put up MP3s of your CD on the web, of an indie band, and then expect people to buy your CD?

    Not to sound like a troll, but I fail to see your logic. The point of having a few mp3s is to give them a sample of what the rest sounds like. (Or in the RIAA's case, the few good songs on a CD). Also, my experience with indie bands is, well, that they suck. My cousin was part of one, and it wasn't what I would consider remotely stellar.

    I buy CDs for music that I downloaded the MP3s of and found good, but that music has all been Good music.

    1. Re:Let me get this straight.. by anthony_dipierro · · Score: 1

      I think his logic was clear from his last question:

      Are we really wrong about the availability of MP3s affecting music sales?

      It seems that he's fallen for the statement made by many slashdotters and other P2P apologists that the spread of MP3s doesn't hurt music sales.

      It just isn't true. And it goes against common sense logic, as your rhetorical question suggests.

    2. Re:Let me get this straight.. by MoOsEb0y · · Score: 1

      It's not that simple. MP3s can be a double edged sword. People know what they're getting before they pay money on it. People will refuse to pay for crap, and are much more likely to pay money for something chancy if it's good.

      This isn't a simple equation where one can assume that changing one variable will result in a change in another.

    3. Re:Let me get this straight.. by anthony_dipierro · · Score: 1

      This isn't a simple equation where one can assume that changing one variable will result in a change in another.

      Sure it is... Supply and demand. Increase supply more than you increase demand, and price goes down.

      OK, OK. There are two variables.

    4. Re:Let me get this straight.. by schon · · Score: 1

      It seems that he's fallen for the statement made by many slashdotters and other P2P apologists that the spread of MP3s doesn't hurt music sales.

      Hmm, and what about his paid advertising. That didn't seem to increase his sales either.

      And how, exactly does Janis Ian fit into your generalizations? Is she a "P2P apologist"? (She's surely not a /.'er, perhaps you could point out how she's a "P2P apologist"?)

      It just isn't true. And it goes against common sense logic

      Yes, it really is true. It fits in perfectly with common sense logic - the problem with "common sense" is that not too many people have it (including you, apparently.)

      Here's some "common sense logic" for you:

      if nobody knows about you, how can they be expected to buy your stuff?

      Of course, you're just a /. troll.

    5. Re:Let me get this straight.. by galaxy300 · · Score: 1
      Oh come on...you obviously haven't heard that many indie bands, or you don't quite understand the meaning of an "indie band". Just because a band isn't signed to a major label does not mean they suck. Take a listen to any band on:

      Matador

      Kill Rock Stars

      4AD (Please don't tell me you haven't heard the Pixies!)

      Alternative Tentacles

      K Records

      Thrill Jockey

      Epitaph

      Arena Rock

      Minty Fresh

      Secretly Canadian

      Kranky

      Lookout

      ...and about 1000 other indie labels. And these are just the ones I can pull from memory. Just because you're cousin's band sucked, don't accuse every other non major label band of sucking. You are either very ill informed, or you just haven't taken the time to listen to music other than what ClearChannel or MTV is shoving down your throat.

    6. Re:Let me get this straight.. by anthony_dipierro · · Score: 1

      Hmm, and what about his paid advertising. That didn't seem to increase his sales either.

      One radio commercial to 10,000 people is hardly likely to. I don't see how that's relevant though. The question is whether or not P2P hurts sales. It's not whether or not paid advertising helps sales.

      And how, exactly does Janis Ian fit into your generalizations?

      She's an apologist.

      She's surely not a /.'er, perhaps you could point out how she's a "P2P apologist"?

      "Free Internet downloads are good for the music industry and its artists," explains Ian. "Every act that can't get signed to a major, for whatever reason, can reach literally millions of new listeners, enticing them to buy the CD and come to the concerts."

      Sounds to me like she's justifying copyright infringement. That makes her an apologist.

      if nobody knows about you, how can they be expected to buy your stuff?

      if your stuff is free, how can you expect to make any money off it? Sure, maybe you'll make an occasional sale, but nowhere near as much as you'll make if you're not giving your stuff away for free.

      Janis argues that we pay for bottled water, when we can get it for free. And that's true, some people do. And some people will pay for CDs even though they can download mp3s for free. But that skirts the question. The question is whether or not P2P reduces sales, not whether or not it eliminates them. To use the bottled water analogy, would bottled water companies make more or less money if we couldn't get water from our faucets? It seems to me that the only answer that makes sense is that they would make more money.

      Here's a question for you. If people are willing to pay for stuff they can get for free, how come no one is making money off shareware?

    7. Re:Let me get this straight.. by adamnit8 · · Score: 1

      God Bless you... here are a few more for your list:

      Burnt Toast Vinyl
      Sub Pop
      Jade Tree
      Tooth and Nail
      Darla
      Def Jux
      Misra
      Saddle Creek
      Velvet Blue Music
      File 13
      Drag City
      Nothern
      Barsuk
      Kindercore
      V2
      Anticon
      Po lyvinyl
      Merge
      Tiger Style
      Deep Elm
      Perfect Pop
      Pias
      Fat Cat

      The best way to piss off the RIAA is to buy albums from these labels. Other added benefits... a world of music so great you'll swear you didn't know it was possible.

      ***warning: if you buy just one, you may end up a junkie like me. i tithe about 20% of my paycheck to my local record store***

    8. Re:Let me get this straight.. by PunchMonkey · · Score: 1

      Oh come on...you obviously haven't heard that many indie bands, or you don't quite understand the meaning of an "indie band". Just because a band isn't signed to a major label does not mean they suck.

      Hear Hear! (Or is it here here?). I was about to reply with the same comment. Last week I was down in Austin, Texas on business. It's an incredible city for live music. Anywho, we checked out this record store "Waterloo Records", it was incredible. They had a dozen listening posts with 5-6 albums per post, most of them indie labels. It was very cool getting to listen to such a huge selection of artists that you'd never heard of before.

      I bought a few discs as a result and am trying to find a good store here at home (Toronto) that's similar. Anyone have any recommendations? Guys at work have recommended a place called Soundstream or Soundscapes or something like that....

      --
      I'll have something intelligent to add one of these days...
  7. I use Ogg Vorbis you insensitive clod! by Frac · · Score: 4, Funny

    I've made the entire album available in MP3 format on the Ephelian Records website to facilitate adoption, and I know some people have downloaded the songs, but I can't figure out why no one has pre-ordered the CD.

    I suggest you encode it in pristine ogg VBR @ 320kbps. Also, include scans of the album cover and back, a nice .nfo describe the release, a .sfv that verifies the checksums, and all packaged in a nice RAR file. Now put it on Kazaa, and share it on "release" priority on eMule on the eDonkey network.

    Oh, did you ask how to make money off it? Err, nevermind...

    1. Re:I use Ogg Vorbis you insensitive clod! by Fweeky · · Score: 3, Funny
      Sorry, your release does not meet the requirements for posting on the KaZZa media network. In case you need reminding:
      • For MP3 release, the maximum bitrate is 128kbps if you're using LAME (although not with an --alt-preset); unlimited if using Xing (with a requirement of at least 4 annoying artifacts and 1 annoying flanging effect through at least 20% of the track).
      • For OGG Vorbis, you have two choices: -q-1 (that's minus 1), or any quality setting provided you transcode from an MP3 that passes the MP3 rules. Any and all OGGs must come with ID3 tags; preferably for a different album.
      • No NFO, no scans of albums. Either the ID3 tag must be empty, incorrect or missing, or the filenames must be of the form track[1-12].{mp3,ogg}.
      • SFV's and similar are out of the question unless they were created during processing; i.e. before adding ID3 tags (especially for OGG's), or created using some oddball tool that nobody uses.
      • All these rules may be waived provided the files are only served off a single 200bps modem user in Alaska, who connects for five minutes every week.
      Remember, failing to abide by these rules may result in your removal from the search database (except for those movies and crappy partial mp3's you haven't bothered deleting yet). The KaZZa Media Network thanks you for helping to reinforce the quality of service our users expect from the network.
    2. Re:I use Ogg Vorbis you insensitive clod! by Mattcelt · · Score: 1

      I'm working on it - I've had to much else on my plate, I didn't think about it. I'm fixing that now.

      Go to the EMP Records website for a directory listing with the songs in .ogg format.

      Pleasing customers - that's how I plan to make money. "There's your book, now buy it!*" *grin*

      Matt

      * "Bookshop", Monty Python's Flying Circus

  8. Post on slashdot... by clambake · · Score: 4, Funny

    Well, one way to make sales would be to post on slashdot mentioning that you might be wavering on your belief that MP3 sharing may not be all it's cracked up to be... Ahh, I see, you're way ahead of me!

  9. Quarentine Cliff - He has Katz Disease! by wowbagger · · Score: 5, Insightful


    "Post-RIAA world"? Quickly, quarentine Cliff - he has Jon Katz disease!
    (Actually, this being Memorial Day, I must admit I actually miss JK sometimes..)
    </OT>

    I would ask this: Is your album available in stores, or only via on-line ordering? If it is only available on-line, how easy to remember is the URL?

    Consider where people listen to the radio - I would say mostly in their cars. Now, here I am, driving along, and on comes your ad. First of all, my ad filter wetware comes online - I hit the button to skip to a new station, or I blank out what is going on.

    OK, so let's say your ad plays a snippet of the music in question, and I listen to it and say "Huh, that's kinda cool. Who is this?" Then your ad says "That was a sample of Scab - Now the Puss Flows Freely, available for download and purchase at www.fbq39x34.com/~tqxir/49912/pxj36.asp". Now, even if you said that slowly enough I could copy it, I'm not going to whip out a pen and paper and copy that while weaving through downtown traffic.

    That's part of why the RIAA is still pertainent in this world. If all I can remember is the group name (and maybe not even that all that well) and if the group is in Worst Buy, I can find it. But if I have to find them online, and if all I have is some common words that don't lend themselves to Googling....

    Last but not least: how does your website handle orders? Do you hid things behind layers of Flash and Javascript? Do you work only with Exploiter? Do you not accept credit cards?

    Ask yourself this: if I wanted to buy that album, how many impediments are in my way?

    1. Re:Quarentine Cliff - He has Katz Disease! by Mattcelt · · Score: 1

      You raise some very good points. In retrospect, I wish I could have waited to run the ads *after* the release date of the album. I just don't have the advertising budget to do the media blitz and anticipation that a big studio does.

      Problem is, the ad dates were set in February, when the release date was originally set for April 15, and the ads would have run after it was available in several retail stores and Amazon.com. When the album was delayed for a month (unforseen design and printing issues), I think it hurt me significantly, for exactly the reasons you mentioned.

      The reason I chose emprecords.com as a website address is so it would be easier to remember. My personal site is much harder to spell. *grin*

      Last but not least: how does your website handle orders? Do you hid things behind layers of Flash and Javascript? Do you work only with Exploiter? Do you not accept credit cards?

      This is the one area where I think we got things right, or nearly so. I used Fat Chuck's Music (which was featured here on /. a few weeks ago) for the ordering pages, and the website was tested with every browser (including Opera, my current favorite) we could think of. It's also designed with the visually impaired in mind, and I think the layout is particularly good. (Just my humble opinion, that last one.) No flash, no java/script, and credit cards are happily accepted.

      That's exactly why the flat sales really threw me - from my perspective, there really aren't that many impediments to sales. (The previous lack of retail coverage notwithstanding.) Tell you what, why don't you check out the ordering process and tell me how it is for you? ;-)

  10. my 0,02 � by f64 · · Score: 1

    how about making part of the albums available, like this brilliant guy over here , and sell full cds cheap (what with viral marketing cutting overheads n all)?

    i have been thinking about this quite a lot lately, since i'm kinda guilty of copying a lot of indie-music from friends without buying the cds: even though i could never afford even half price on every cd i've copied, i'm still paying for, lets say every tenth album.

    i'm not sure if this is a working model, but i listen to more music nowdays, and in the end i pay more for music today than i did four five years ago - and i'm buying from indie-labels rather than big-biz.

    when it comes to money; do gigs for money (and if you get 20'000 downloads, chances are people would pay more in order to see you perform) - the traditional route with ads n stuff is too expensive to manage for a small biz.

    oh! and don't forget nifty t-shirts! never underestimate the power of nice t-shirts. and sweatshirts.

    f64 : making crack remarks since the invention of crack

  11. Try it the old-fashioned way... by baka_boy · · Score: 3, Informative

    ...and take some of those gigs that barely cover gas and food, just to get your music out there for people to listen to. Most of the indie "success stories" (Big Head Todd & the Monsters, Ani DiFranco, etc.) based their reputations on their live performances, with album sales being just another means of helping to support that primary occupation.

    You can't just throw your music at people who've never heard or seen the band before, and expect them to gladly fork over $10-20 on the chance that it could be good. Until you have some "known" artists, (i.e., they can attract a crowd on the basis of their name and rep for their shows) the label itself isn't going to be a good promotional vehicle. Once one or two of your artists have started to attract some attention, though, the label's name can be an attractor for new talent, and for listeners looking for more of that kind of music.

    It can be done -- my father has been making a living as an independent musician for a number of years, and after establishing a sizeable local following for his live shows, has managed to self-publish and sell out several 1000-unit batches of his recent CDs. However, it took at least 3-4 years of low-paid live shows, interviews and solo accoustic sets on local radio stations, etc., before he was able to do so.

  12. the obvious... by Tumbleweed · · Score: 2, Troll

    The music sucks? Just a shot in the dark, there. I just checked out one mp3 posted on your site and it was pretty bad - much worse than the kind of dreck that usually makes it to the Top 40 playlists, in fact. But, there IS a market for just about anything, so let's think about some other possibilities.

    What was the nature of your 'advertisement' on the radio? Was it a sample of some songs? Or was it just "we have good music - come here to buy it"?

    Did you advertise the right kind of music to the right radio audience?

    Are your prices out of line?

    Are your CDs available in stores? Many people don't buy stuff online, and if it can't be found in a 'real store', they're not gonna buy it.

    Do you even know what your target audience is LIKE?

    Just some thoughts.

  13. Did you consider...? by zbowling · · Score: 1

    Did you consider that maybe your music might suck? Maybe your marketing the wrong crowd. Get a better manager maybe (or at least ask some of them if you suck), and try and get a deal with a bigger record company.

    --
    No.
    1. Re:Did you consider...? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The other thing is... most music sucks. People find small reasons to like a whole song (it has a good intro, it uses the same I-IV-V progression, it sounds like something you already like) or they just get a song drilled into their heads by some huge national company.

  14. What about music? by fm6 · · Score: 2, Insightful
    Despite reaching an average audience of more than 10,000 during peak times, we netted *0* sales.
    Not that hard to explain. How many of those 10,000 even own a computer? How many of them just tuned out your ads along with dozens of other ads? How many are going to stop what they're doing and write down URL (especially if they're behind the wheel of a car!)? How catchy was your ad? And finally, how many of them even liked your music?

    Big record companies spend millions on advertising and promotion, all done by experienced professionals. And they still sometimes lay an egg. Spending a few thousand dollars is no guarantee of anything.

    If you want to make a place for your music, there's no substitute for the simple hard work of developing your art, finding your audience, and gradually making a place for yourself. This doesn't always work out, and it takes time and effort in any case. But there's no magic shortcuts.

    1. Re:What about music? by superflippy · · Score: 1

      Good point. I used to listen to the Link back when I lived in Charlotte (and even after I moved, until ASCAP shut down online broadcasts). It's a listen-in-your-car and listen-at-work kind of station. People at either of those places are only going to buy your album if they remember the hook and the name of the band or album. And chances are, they're going to walk into Blockbuster Music looking for the album, not preorder online. The Link's audience is about as mainstream, middle of the road as you can get.

      --
      Your fantasies contain the seeds of important concepts.
  15. Because it's hard to make music? by JabberWokky · · Score: 3, Insightful
    It's *hard* to make music good enough to sell. The album you're trying to sell (and I'm thinking that you are the artist, as this "label" has only one artist) is extremely well produced. That's about all it has going for it, and low production values have never held back good music.

    At the same time, you've got overworked, long intros (leave that for the live album 20 years down the road), several insturmentals (which almost never do well - how many of James Taylors insturmentals can you recall?), and a singer that sounds like he's been training in high school chorus for the solo for the spring musical. Yes, I can say that, as I've had albums that flopped, and I sound nasal and grating.

    Plus, having listened to the first half of all the songs, none of them really caught my attention and stood out. Sorry - it's *hard* to push albums. Live gigs? Sure - even I can fill a local venue. Selling albums across the country? You're competing with thousands of other bands, mostly comprised of veteran performers who are band-mate swapping every year or so, hoping to mesh with somebody for that next great hit. Plus loads of semi-successful or career artists like Throwing Muses and Men Without Hats, both of whom just released new albums and are trying to push their own stuff in the exact same way you are - with pre-built in name recognition.

    To sum it up - making music is easy. Making good music is hard. Selling your music is the hardest thing of all and involves some amount of luck. There are bands that gave up, only to have their album suddenly take off two years after they gave all the copies away at live performances.

    Incidently, I *assume* you're performing, pushing your stuff with at least two gigs a week. If you're not, you're not doing the work. Regardless if you make it this time around, constant gigging vastly improves your ability to perform, and if that's what you want to do in life, you have to work at it.

    Incidently, while I ripped apart the *album*, you've got some decent songs. I'd sit and have dinner with you performing somewhere. And that's where 98% of all artists will spend almost all their careers. That's the music biz.

    --
    Evan

    --
    "$30 for the One True Ring. $10 each additional ring!" -- JRR "Bob" Tolkien
  16. duh by Apreche · · Score: 1

    your music has to be good. I'm not going to pay for music that sucks. The future of music advertising I think is in non-conventional methods. I highly suggest you get a third party to make a meme out of one of your songs. I found out about an awesome dude Master Zap http://www.z4p.com after hearing one of his songs in an anime music video. I found out about Tatu because Gabe from Penny Arcade told me about it. Just making a website with mp3s and advertising isn't enough. Your music actually has to be good and has to have an association in peoples minds with something else that's cool. Car commercials work well.

    --
    The GeekNights podcast is going strong. Listen!
    1. Re:duh by leviramsey · · Score: 1

      Yeah, car commercials are becoming the Next Big Thing in music promotion. Even established artists like Sting are resorting to having their music used to sell cars to get their stuff out there (especially now that you can go to the car company websites and find links to buy the CDs the songs came from, in some cases).

    2. Re:duh by galaxy300 · · Score: 1

      Not only are established artists like Sting doing commercials these days -- it's not uncommon for up and coming indies like The Shins and The Moldy Peaches to do commercials as a way to push their music and make a little money as well. I can't say that I love it, but if they're cool with it, then whatever...

  17. Can you earn a living busking? by Lochin+Rabbar · · Score: 2, Insightful
    A good musician can get of a bus in a strange town, find a likely spot and within half a day make enough tips to keep him going for the day. He will make enough to pay for accommodation and food and a bit extra in that time. He'll be able to find a bar that will supply the drinks for him in return for playing in a corner of the bar. By the end of the day he'll usually have an invite to stay at someone's house for a couple of nights.

    People can and do travel this way. Good musicians don't starve. If you can't make a living by busking you're not good enough to be a professional musician. Be honest with yourself, could you survive like I've described above. I know several people who have done it, not all of them play music as a profession, but all of them could if they chose to. If you can't survive like that then don't give up the day job.

  18. Re: Gigs by Captain+Splendid · · Score: 2, Informative

    You say that gigging barely covers the costs, but every story I've heard about a succesful band almost always contains a variation on the following quote:

    "...they built up a a dedicated following through a hard schedule of concerts..."

    Unless you're groomed beforehand by the big labels, that seems to be the way to raise your profile and make some sales: hard work.

    --
    Linux, you magnificent bastard, I read the fucking manual!
  19. Here's a smack from the ol' clue-by-four by KILNA · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Firstly, take any advice from me with a grain of salt, I'm not a successful indie artist... I'm just an indie artist. Firstly, you've done something good. You're on slashdot. You have managed to get free marketing in a venue where people "get" the idea of sampling a product before purchasing it, and many see the value in paying for a product they already have for free. This is a good thing.

    However, for a pre-order scenario to work you really need to add value to pre-ordering it. You can do this by giving it away before selling, but the only ones who will bite are the ones who only want to listen to your music on a manufactured CD delivered at some point in the future, or wish to contribute based solely on the music they already have for free. So far, from your account of the situation, this number is zero. Now, if you relase a few of the tracks and make it so the rest aren't made available until a certain number of pre-sales are placed, then you're getting somewhere. Put some documentation on the web as far as how close you are to your goals. If you make it less expensive to purchase the CD on a pre-order, that helps too. I have 2 CD singles with mixes completed, the current plan is to release one outright and not release the second until sales of the first and pre-sales from the second will cover my costs.

    Another plan for my music is to see if there's any chance in hell I can get it covered on slashdot. Perhaps your $4000 wasn't wasted, it just got funneled into sales in a way contrary to your expectations.

    --
    Error: PANTS NOT FOUND. Press <F1> to continue.
  20. 107.9? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    First find a radio station about music, not assholes in the mouring. Second preorder is not the way to go, from the time of order you should have the disks in the mail within 3 days, deleverd in two weeks If you are going to go with the preorders you should have High bitrate MP3 or OGG(or flac) files on a secure FTP sever, for your paying custermers to listen to until the disk arive. try 95.7 next time. goodluck

  21. The way to make money. by ThePeices · · Score: 2, Funny

    Digital music distribution will only take off once we ditch the CD format. In a post RIAA world (may that day come!), the only way to ensure that piracy of music will stop (and i dont care what you tell me, it IS stealing. youre getting music that you didnt pay for, period.), is to distribute the music in a DRM enabled format..and i mean DRM enabled, not DRM castrated..fair use is the key. When people move away from physical CD based distribution, and we all use solid state/HDD based players, or whatever the technology is at the time, then it will be fair. BUT, there are flaws in this that will still leave customers angry, fustrated, and ripped off. thats corporate greed...the whole music/copyright problem will never go away, unless we are either tied under a yoke of draconian measures (just look at the US...peoples rights are slipping away right from under them...corporate greed has infested politics and now law), or the music industry changes to use digital music the right way. its only a matter of time untill we move away from CD and to fully digital storage, playing, distribution etc. we can do that now with iPods and the equivalent. I just hope Apple ports iTunes to windows and linux (please!), and the iStore music store before microsoft does. Id rather see the money flow to Apple than microsoft. Then again, if Apple were in microsofts place, would they behave any different. Greed comes with power.

  22. Did it ever occur to you by rudy_wayne · · Score: 2

    That your music sucks? Just because you recorded it (no mater how hard you think you worked and no matter how good you think it is) doesn't mean anyone else likes it.

  23. A couple of reasons... by AlphaOne · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I mean no offense by any of this... hopefully you'll take it constructively.

    First, I listened to the ad on the website... I'd assume it was produced by the station itself and frankly, it's horrible. It generates no excitement and it isn't catchy enough to stick out of the crowd of other ads. In short, few people even heard the ad. I did radio work for many years and I think you were screwed by the station production people. That ad could have been formatted in a dozen other ways and had more impact.

    Second, you're advertising on the wrong station. "The Link" looks like a hot AC station and your music just doesn't fit into that demographic. Have you tried a college station? Send them a gratis CD and see if they play it.

    Find a station that plays something similar... I'd call it easy listening or maybe even jazz if I had to put it in a genre, but maybe you know better where you want to head with it. Once you've found your station, toss out some teaser ads and see what gets caught in the net.

    Good luck!

    --
    All opinions presented here aren't mine.
    1. Re:A couple of reasons... by jfisherwa · · Score: 1

      Why is this only scored at 2+1? He's one of the few people that actually took the time to review the needs of the asker and offer a serious solution.

      I'm definitely willing to blow some of my extra karma to say mod this parent up.

    2. Re:A couple of reasons... by Mattcelt · · Score: 1

      I mean no offense by any of this... hopefully you'll take it constructively.

      Certainly.

      First, I listened to the ad on the website... I'd assume it was produced by the station itself and frankly, it's horrible. It generates no excitement and it isn't catchy enough to stick out of the crowd of other ads. In short, few people even heard the ad. I did radio work for many years and I think you were screwed by the station production people. That ad could have been formatted in a dozen other ways and had more impact.

      I was somewhat unpleasantly surprised that the ad I have is exactly what ran. Live and learn, I guess. I was hoping that the music itself would be catchy enough to warrant listening, but you might be very right about the music not fitting the station format/demographic. On the other hand, I've been told that The Link has played more Nora Jones than nearly any other station in the country, so it's tough to tell...

      I am hoping that WNCW will pick up a track or two for their playlist - that should help a great deal.

      Thanks for your comments!
      Matt

    3. Re:A couple of reasons... by AdamD1 · · Score: 1

      Since a ton of people commented on what was good / bad, etc. I feel its important to note a couple things:

      For starters: Any ad on its own (I don't care what kind) is useless unless you have at least three or four other promotional ideas in place. If you have a radio ad, you more than likely want to tie that to a retailer or website where the CD is already available.

      If you were expecting pre-orders... I mean.... pre-orders are not where your focus should be. Like at all. Orders, period. Any band that puts money into a radio ad when they don't yet have a finished release already in stores is doomed. Unless that artist is say... Britney Spears / Marilyn Manson, etc. Someone where advance / teaser ads can only be beneficial.

      A better approach might have been:

      Complete the release and get even single copies into indie stores.
      Get posters up. Everywhere you can get them up (legally or otherwise.)
      Play shows. Mention stores that have your cd. Mention websites if you have to but don't take up more than a song's worth of time talking about how available your cd is.

      If those three things are in place already, then perhaps that's the time to consider (but not necessarily buy) a radio ad. Radio ads are expensive. Placement of that ad once it's produced is even more expensive. Getting that ad into a better timeslot is even more expensive than that. Personally I think radio is a dead end unless you are the aforementioned Britney / Manson / etc. artist. There is no avenue in major radio for an indie artist, period. I don't listen to radio for that reason. Assuming your music was what I was looking for, you haven't reached me.

      That's long winded but it's what I think was missing from this discussion. Don't save up for a single radio ad if you didn't already have at least four or five other marketing items in place.

      Good luck though. :)

      ad

      P.S. This would be true with or without the RIAA. It's the same in Sweden, Japan, Australia, etc. as it is in the US or Canada. Proper marketing = buzz of any sort.

      --
      Because I can! [Brainrub.com]
  24. Yeah, I tried a get rich quick scheme once too... by stienman · · Score: 2, Insightful

    "... I can't figure out why no one has pre-ordered the CD"

    You're asking people to pre-order a CD? You're asking regular, average, CD-buying people to preorder a CD?

    Average Joe does not preorder anything from an unknown entity, much less for music that they've heard maybe 5 or 10 times in their life. Pre-orders work for groups that have dedicated following, who are willing to say, "Here's my money now - you can pay me with product later." You are trying to go backwards and develop a following by having non-followers preorder a CD.

    I wouldn't do it, myself, unless I felt passionate about the music, and I doubt your music causes much feeling in me at all, nevermind passion. Even if I really liked the music I would say, "Well, I'll visit infrequently over the next few months - if they have anything they can ship tomorrow then I might buy it." But since the MP3s are freely available, I might not even check back.

    Going back to your original question:
    what should a small independent music publishing company do to sell a new artist to the public?

    I suspect, but don't know, that a publishing company will have to take a hit on a few albums before the artist takes off. Like a web site it takes years, not months, to gather enough followers to make ends meet, without breaking a profit. Some artists biff, some make it big, but you have to hold onto them, develop them, produce two or more EXCELLENT polished albums, get some regular airplay on several stations, and put some blood, sweat, and tears into your work.

    How about this:
    Quick, easy/cheap, profitable.

    Pick two. The RIAA does quick and profitable by pouring money into it. You will never be able to compete on their field, so don't try.

    -Adam

  25. I honestly don't know by Kris_J · · Score: 1
    It's been a few months since I got my iPod and my 2,500 track music collection is just starting to feel small. I realised that I haven't a clue what interesting music is out there, no idea what to get next, if anything.

    In the past I've found out about music in many different ways: MP3.com (Electrostatic), news articles (Kyoko Date), anime (Sharon Apple), soundtracks (Craig Armstrong), free samples on the InterWeb (Delerium), radio, TV, friends, etc. Recently I haven't found any musical acts worth following-up, mostly because I don't really know where to look. And I don't know where to look because I'm not trying particularly -- while I'd like some new stuff on my iPod, I'm spending money on DVDs at the moment.

    Maybe you want to consider recording some live events and editing up yourself a DVD...

  26. oh man.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    is this a plant by the RIAA to make us think we need them?

    so many things wrong with this..

    1) I listen to the radio to LISTEN TO SOMETHING. If you're talking about something else I can listen to, and it costs money, I'm going to tune it right out. Would you put an ad for bottled water on a Coke can?

    2) People are up to their armpits in music. Your music won't "sell itself" (*especially* to the 107.9 audience). I haven't listened to your music but I'd imagine it sounds a lot like a whole bunch of other music I've heard. You gotta have a "story" and a "personality". You gotta PLAY LOTS OF GIGS.. at least for a few years. Create a buzz in the underground version of whatever music scene you're into .. be sure your name shows up in the little alternative newspapers and such. Put up stickers and shit. Figure out how to get all the hipsters to know your name and drop it when chatting with their hipster pals. It doesn't matter if you're singing gospel music or you play folk music or you use a laptop to make techno, there's a "scene" were you need to make a buzz.

    Just remember this: no matter how much you love your music and how much you put into it, the audio waveform itself is just a commodity.

    Unfortunately you've already left a bad taste in my mouth (I live in Charlotte) so I probably will associate "Matthew O'Reilly" with "guy on slashdot", rather than "guy with cool tunes" from now on. Oops!

    3) PRE-ORDER???? I'm sorry, pre-ordering a CD is like pre-ordering a head of lettuce from the supermarket. Forget about it. Have the damn thing ready to sell. AT YOUR GIGS!

    4) Don't put your CD on your website for download. That costs you money with no return. Just put 1-2 songs or snippets up there. Let your fans swap it at their own expense .. viral marketing anyone?

    5) Lose the crap promo page with the cliches: "It sort of defies words and seems to evoke something different for every person." .. Yeah, just like EVERY OTHER MUSICIAN .. and lose the glossy promo pictures.

    Put some stuff on your site that makes people want to read it. Like some funny stuff or essays about what inspires you.

    6) You have any musician friends? What do they do? Do they play live? Are any more successful than you? Can you get in some of their gigs (for free), just so you can show your name and face around town?

    Blah blah .. you get the point.. there's a lot of work involved. For $4000 some musicians could've come up with a lot of cool stuff to promote themselves!

    Good luck man. I tried this once in the pre-MP3 era and failed miserably cuz my band didn't have the time and energy to play live often.

    1. Re:oh man.. by Mattcelt · · Score: 1

      is this a plant by the RIAA to make us think we need them?

      Nope, it's an honest question.

      1) I listen to the radio to LISTEN TO SOMETHING. If you're talking about something else I can listen to, and it costs money, I'm going to tune it right out. Would you put an ad for bottled water on a Coke can?

      No, but it would be pretty dumb not to put an ad for coke on the side of a soft drink machine, don't you think? Why do you suppose Amazon.com puts "if you like this, you might like that" links on their website? Because putting an ad in a symbiotic marketing environment is generally a good idea.

      I'm not saying that you, or a lot of people like you, don't have a right to listen to the radio without buying anything from the sponsors. But the reality is that radio ads work for a lot of things, and I thought that this idea might extend to my music. But the real question was, are people not buying my music because of the availability of free mp3's on my website?

      2) People are up to their armpits in music. Your music won't "sell itself" (*especially* to the 107.9 audience). I haven't listened to your music but I'd imagine it sounds a lot like a whole bunch of other music I've heard.

      Jumping to conclusions is dangerous exercise.

      You gotta have a "story" and a "personality". You gotta PLAY LOTS OF GIGS.. at least for a few years. Create a buzz in the underground version of whatever music scene you're into .. be sure your name shows up in the little alternative newspapers and such. Put up stickers and shit. Figure out how to get all the hipsters to know your name and drop it when chatting with their hipster pals. It doesn't matter if you're singing gospel music or you play folk music or you use a laptop to make techno, there's a "scene" were you need to make a buzz.

      This is very true, and something that I will make happen very shortly. But as I mentioned in another response, Britney Spears sells a whole lot more albums than concert tickets. How does that happen? Marketing, especially radio marketing. Now I haven't been played a whole lot on the radio yet, so that's part of the problem. But while you are correct that creating a buzz in a specific community is a great idea, it's not the only way to make money selling yourself. (Hell, Steely Dan did it for more than 20 years without ever touring once!)

      Just remember this: no matter how much you love your music and how much you put into it, the audio waveform itself is just a commodity.

      This is very true. But like all commodities, it can be bought and sold, even if it isn't for much. What the waveform lacks in individual value, I'll more than happily recoup in volume. And I'm really above all trying to figure out how to do is maximize the bang for my buck. That's why I was asking about the whole mp3 thing - am I diminishing my value, despite what I and many others here on /. think, by making my music freely available?

      Unfortunately you've already left a bad taste in my mouth (I live in Charlotte) so I probably will associate "Matthew O'Reilly" with "guy on slashdot", rather than "guy with cool tunes" from now on. Oops!

      I'm sorry to hear that, I really am. I had hoped that the tone of my post was taken as an honest question, not something offensive.

      3) PRE-ORDER???? I'm sorry, pre-ordering a CD is like pre-ordering a head of lettuce from the supermarket. Forget about it. Have the damn thing ready to sell. AT YOUR GIGS!

      I worked in retail for a couple of years, and garnered a few "top sales" awards for my performance. One of those awards was for pre-sales of a movie. Pre-selling works in some situations; I know it for a fact. Now, I made my mp3's available before the ad ever ran, so people could download and listen for free three weeks before the album was even available. Anyone that pre-ordered would only be waiting for the physical disc, not the ability to listen t

  27. Play Venues, get popular, get promoted make money by Oriumpor · · Score: 1

    Ads aren't the only way to make money. You need to play gigs, even if playing gigs means not eating like a rock star, or driving the best car. You can't get exposure unless you play. Bands are seldom made overnight, and many bands (smashmouth comes to mind) play for years *10-20 is not unheard of* before making it big. Be patient, the RIAA isn't the cause of *ALL* the worlds problems.... yet.

  28. Here's what my friend's band is doing by Radical+Rad · · Score: 1

    They had professionally made CD's minted with a nice silk screen on them. In quantities of 400+ they get them done for about a buck a CD. Then they sell them for a dollar at their gigs. They also give some of them away through audience participation like who can answer trivia about the band. Many half drunk people will shell out a buck for a CD especially when they just paid $2.50 for a beer.

    Now you say, well how do they make money on that deal? They don't expect to make money from CD sales. But by getting their music out there and getting the audience familiar with their songs they have been picking up a following which makes them more desirable to the club owners. I'm sure you know that original bands typically don't get paid much but they are now getting more than most local cover bands.

    As an indie I'm sure you are aware that even bands signed to huge labels usually lose money on CD sales and only come out ahead by touring. Well this is the same system but on a much smaller sale. And having lots of people familiar with your group also helps win those battle of the bands competitions which gives you free publicity.

    So basically I think your assumption that you want to make money by selling CD's is flawed. The established system doesn't work that way and the new model won't either. Sell the band not the CD. Make your money on door receipts and if the band is good then eventually you can make a little on CDs and Tshirts later.

  29. Two words... by FatRatBastard · · Score: 1

    Live Shows. Playing live is the best way to promote yourself if you're not being pushed by one of the RIAA (or to a lesser extent a successful indy) labels. It always has been, and chances are it always will be. If you're good then you'll grow a fanbase who are the best at spreading the word. MP3 (and a website) are nice to have once you've got something established -- they allow your fanbase to keep tabs on what you're up to -- but a career can not be built on MP3s, webpages or
    radio promotions alone.

    Go out and play... a lot.

  30. Ani by Gothmolly · · Score: 0, Troll

    Except that Ani DiFranco sucks.

    --
    I want to delete my account but Slashdot doesn't allow it.
    1. Re:Ani by SwellJoe · · Score: 1

      I know I'm feeding the troll...but, it's worth mentioning that whether Ani sucks (actually she is pretty incredible live--I was seriously disappointed when I bought one of her records though) isn't the point.

      She makes a good living, sells a lot of records at very good margins, and does what she loves (I presume). The advice is sound...Get your ass on the road, and if you have something worth listening too (and sometimes even if you don't), making a living will eventually follow. It is easier if you live in a bigger city that can support a few 'local heroes' so you can play profitably once a week without travelling far from home, while you're holding a day job to pay the rent and save some money for larger tours. Then you branch out from there, starting with frequent small tours ("Thanks for coming out, we've just returned from our triumphant world tour of Texas!") and finally jump into larger regional or nationwide tours and festivals.

      There are enough examples of bands doing this successfully that it can't really be argued to be a fluke: Superchunk (who signed to a major after years going it alone, and then returned to indie status because they made a better living that way), Bob Mould, the Elephant 6 collective, etc. These bands aren't necessarily recording 'gold' everytime they go into the studio, nor are they filling arenas, but they are making a good living doing what they love and playing for fans that will stick with them for years. Seems like a pretty sustainable business model, rather than a Make Money Fast Scheme that some folks think making a record ought to be.

    2. Re:Ani by Mattcelt · · Score: 1

      You're very right, and that's exactly what my next step is. However, it seems to me that Britney Spears sells magnitudes more records than concert tickets, based on traditional marketing approaches. I figured, in my naïvité perhaps, that I could jumpstart things by taking the same approach.

      Now there are a couple of possible differences here - 1) I don't have much radio play yet, 2) I don't have the budget that Sony et al. have, or 3) I don't know what the hell I'm doing in the marketing business. (I don't think it's #3, but it is a real possibility, I suppose.)

      I suppose I wanted to best of both worlds - make money fast while doing what I love. But if I have to take one or the other, I'll make my money slowly. I love playing music, and despite the "lack of talent" posts here, I know I'm at least pretty good at it. :-p

      Matt

  31. insert into mouth (money) by Gothmolly · · Score: 1

    Since you're blogging away on Slashdot, I'm guessing that you have a 'day job', and hence, are not one who could wander the world as a travelling minstrel.

    --
    I want to delete my account but Slashdot doesn't allow it.
    1. Re:insert into mouth (money) by Lochin+Rabbar · · Score: 1

      You're spot on regarding my musical ability but your reasoning sucks. I'll give you on example. My brother in law is both a talented cabinet maker and a talented fiddler. He chooses to make a living from working with wood, but when he travels he covers his costs by taking the fiddle he made himself into the street and practising.

  32. Re: Gigs by AppleTRON · · Score: 1

    Exactly, Cap. Hard frikkin work. As a gigging musician for more than 5 years, I have spent some months playing 6 - 8 shows all over the northeast. Sometimes it was New York on a Friday, Boston on Saturday and New Hampshire on Sunday for a total net of: NOTHING! You have to bust your ass as a touring act to build up a dedicated following. And usually, the grueling schedule and anti-climax of playing to near empty rooms your first time in a new market will weed out the artists not cut out for it. In any event, it's a new game these days. But one thing holds true: if you're selling something, make it the best damn thing on the market, otherwise no one will care about you at all. That goes for your music, your merchandise and your performance. There ARE still ways to make money as a musician ... just use your f'n head. And don't trust Lawyers. ;)

    --
    *AppleTRON*
  33. Yep... by Dr.+Evil · · Score: 1

    Plenty of musicians have dayjobs and love playing music.

  34. I'll be the mean one to say it. by cgenman · · Score: 1

    In addition to the other comments people here have made, people seem to be skirting one big issue.

    I'm sorry to have to say this, because he's probably a very nice guy but your singer is flat. Totally, completely, almost painfully flat. This wouldn't be as bad but his voice is also too loud on most (though not all) of the MP3's. Re-balancing the songs would be a good start, but quite frankly as I listen to "Reluctance" in the background (one of the few well-equalized songs in the bunch) it does not seem to break any new musical ground. Piano-heavy light pop jazz enjoyed much success in years past, and the progressions and melodies in the MP3's feel almost representative of what came in the late 80's / early 90's. Add into that a generalized lack of bridges and other techniques to spice up the vanilla dish and the music you have made available, quite frankly, doesn't taste very good to this listener. I'm sure an anonymous coward will use more colorful terms.

    In short, MP3's are a good way to give people a sample of your music. But if that doesn't leave a positive impression, your sales will not go up.

    This is one artist. If you are serious about becoming a real distribution company, you need a network of artists, and a network of friends in high places. This artist needs some work, but that should be up to the artist to work on. He's probably a great live act, but recorded he needs a lot of work (is he singing in the right octave?). Instead of trying to squeeze water from this stone, promote other acts of yours, or go out looking for talent. There are lots of great indie artists out there, but that doesn't mean most indie artists are great. You have to do a lot of digging to find the good ones. Get digging.

  35. Simple! by Harik · · Score: 1
    So, your $4000 advertising campaign failed, and the free-MP3 download campaign failed, how can you possibly get your name out there?

    My reccomendation would be to post it to a highly-trafficed internet site and use sympathetic keywords like 'End of RIAA' and 'independant publisher'. Try to make it look like a real story rather then just an ad, and watch the money come rolling in!

    Cynically, this probably IS a paid placement, folks. Welcome to the New Slashdot.

    --Dan

    1. Re:Simple! by Mattcelt · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Well, it's not a paid placement, but I can't say that I'm disappointed that people are checking out my site.

      Honestly, I did it because I wanted to find out what the people in the /. community thought about my ideas, and where I went "wrong". And I've gotten a lot of great feedback.

      You're right, this has been a priceless set of links for me, but I think the real value is in the suggestions, not in whatever sales might or might not derive from it.

      Matt

  36. Setting it straight. by Mattcelt · · Score: 1

    First off, sorry for the /.'ing on emprecords.com - 500+ megs of traffic in a matter of hours takes its toll. :-) I will soon have sample tracks available on amazon.com; sorry for the wait.

    Now, to answer the questions:
    One radio commercial to 10,000 people is hardly likely to. I don't see how that's relevant though. The question is whether or not P2P hurts sales. It's not whether or not paid advertising helps sales.

    Well, it was more like 44 radio commercials... Twelve of which were during peak afternoon driving times (@$250/apiece) on the #1-rated show during in this marker during that time period. Average listening audience is projected between 9,800 and 13,500 or so for those times.

    She's an apologist.

    As far as Janis Ian goes, perhaps she is an apologist, perhaps not. But I was approaching this from my own viewpoint - that I have downloaded many mp3's in my time, and never in my life did I buy more than when I was able to sample new music while Napster was alive. I spent more in a single month during that time period than I have in total since Napster shut down.

    Copyright infringement is another issue entirely. I don't think anybody can go after people who trade my music for free - and I don't want them to. Perhaps it is naïve of me to try to increase my brand recognition and increase my income by selling CDs at the same time, but I'm not 100% convinced either way right now.

    The question is whether or not P2P reduces sales, not whether or not it eliminates them. To use the bottled water analogy, would bottled water companies make more or less money if we couldn't get water from our faucets? It seems to me that the only answer that makes sense is that they would make more money.

    Let's put this mp3 business in perspective. 1) Trading mp3s is a good way to increase brand recognition; if the songs are good, people will turn other people on to them. Pretty much any marketing book published in the past 50 years will tell you that brand recognition is an important part of sales. 2) No form of music listening is going to have a 1:1 relationship with sales. Radio ads, mp3's, live shows, MTV, etc. will all increase public awareness, and therefore, according to marketing theory, sales. However, no music anywhere is good enough that every person will want to buy it the first time they hear it. 3) I subscribe to the Richard P. Feynman school of disclosure: the more information people have, the better their decisions will be. The people who buy my CD after hearing the mp3's will be doing so because they want to support the artist and the music.

    So, as you say, the real question, the piece I haven't been able to figure out yet, is how much (if any) the free mp3s are hurting my business. The only way I can say for sure that it is is by knowing that people who would have bought the CD "sight unseen" did not because a) they listened to it an didn't like it enough to purchase it, b) don't put it as a priority in their budget, or c) didn't like it. All three are very real possibilities. And that's why I came to you guys here at /. - it is one of the best ways to get real feedback. And I see some good possibilities here as well.

    On an up note, even though I haven't seen a flood in the way of sales yet (though there have been some orders since I wrote this ask slashdot), the brand recognition I've received has been very good. I am currently scouting management firms in the area, and an agent at a very large management firm with an office here in Charlotte heard my ads on the radio and was very interested in meeting me. And it has been very good for local retail sales, where business (like Borders) have increased their initial orders from me based on my advertising. Mp3's or not, I think this is going somewhere, even if it's not the overnight sucess I would have liked.

    1. Re:Setting it straight. by anthony_dipierro · · Score: 1

      Well, it was more like 44 radio commercials... Twelve of which were during peak afternoon driving times (@$250/apiece) on the #1-rated show during in this marker during that time period. Average listening audience is projected between 9,800 and 13,500 or so for those times.

      Well, I don't know enough about radio marketing to comment on whether or not that's likely to get people to buy CDs. Could be that the commercial wasn't done well. Could be that 44 radio commercials just isn't a good advertising mechanism. I don't know.

      As far as Janis Ian goes, perhaps she is an apologist, perhaps not. But I was approaching this from my own viewpoint - that I have downloaded many mp3's in my time, and never in my life did I buy more than when I was able to sample new music while Napster was alive. I spent more in a single month during that time period than I have in total since Napster shut down.

      Well, if you're going to take purely the denotation of the word, and ignore the connotation, then Janis Ian is, most definately, an apologist.

      As for anecdotes, I've never bought a CD from an RIAA-affiliated artist since Napster. A lot of my friends haven't either. Even my less technical friends tend to get burned CD-Rs from my more technical friends. So in my experience, Napster et. al. have hurt the recording industry.

      I have bought CDs though. But I've always bought them from indy artists, after watching them perform live. That, in my opinion, is your best bet at making money. Get a fan base through live performances, and sell your CDs there.

      Also, in my opinion having mp3s available online probably isn't going to hurt your CD sales at live performances. Buying someone's CD after watching a great performance is more like tipping a waitress after receiving excellent service. You don't really do it for the CD as much as to show your support.

      So, as you say, the real question, the piece I haven't been able to figure out yet, is how much (if any) the free mp3s are hurting my business.

      In your case, I don't think it really hurts. Probably doesn't help much either. The fact of the matter is there's too much competition for listen-at-home music for the little guys to really make money at it. Maybe a few lucky individuals can do it, but I'm talking about single digits a year.

      Mp3's or not, I think this is going somewhere, even if it's not the overnight sucess I would have liked.

      Best of luck to you. It's a tough business. I know quite a few musicians who are without a doubt better than the vast majority of RIAA affiliated artists, and still can't afford to quit their day job. Fortunately, you seem to enjoy or at least tolerate the business aspect of it, so you have an upper hand over many others.

      I and I'm sure many others would love to hear a followup in a few months.

  37. use CD Baby by evenprime · · Score: 1

    I used Fat Chuck's Music (which was featured here on /. a few weeks ago) for the ordering pages

    I'm not sure that was the best choice. You may want to consider using a much better established site (e.g. one with over 36,000 artists) and a proven track record for sales; i.e. one that has already given $3 million dollars of sales profit to indie bands. They also make it very easy to find indie artists who sound like your favorite bands. That saves having to wade through piles and piles of stuff that's questionable quality.

    FWIW, I went to the Fat Chuck's site after it was linked here, and there was nothing there to listen to. I haven't been back there since. In contrast, I've been to CD Baby several times since then and have found several great bands. (And no, I'm not just plugging CDBaby because they are /. users who run a successful business without using any microsoft products. I was visiting CDBaby long before I knew about that)

    --

    "Weapons should be hardy rather than decorative" - Miyamoto Musashi
    I think that goes for OS's too
  38. One way to sell CDs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I know one one to boost album sales:
    sing in tune. I listened to the 1st track. Dreadful pitch and tone. And what's with the fake English accent? This is just a loser that recorded at home and thinks he has talent. Go back to the corporate life you sing about.

  39. Formula ... by Abm0raz · · Score: 1

    1. Write good music
    2. Play it well live
    3. Build up a fan base
    4. Sell stuff (CDs, t-shirts, tickets...)
    5. ...
    6. Profit!

    Try looking at these guys. They're doing alright. Not quite to the Metallica, Creed, Brittney Speares level of riches yet, but they definitely hold their own for a small town with more local acts than it knows what to do with.

    -Ab

    --
    Nothing fails quite like prayer.
  40. A review of the album. by mcglk · · Score: 1

    The album is called Snapshots, by someone named Matthew O'Reilly, someone I haven't heard of before now. The MP3s can be found at this link.

    First off, a hint for the original submitter: You don't need full-bitrate MP3s for a preview. 56Kib/s would have done, and would have been a lot faster to download. Further, it would also encourage people to buy the album if they liked it, just to get something they could get a higher bitrate from.

    Tracks:

    • Drop of a Hat: Okay, so I knew nothing about this album when I started, but I know something from the first moment of this track: There's a banjo.

      Now, for the record, the number of albums I have that feature banjo music number approximately zero. I'm not completely sure---there are some suspicious sounds in some of Mannheim Steamroller's stuff that I actually think is a harpsichord, but it's hard to be sure. Thing is, banjo music doesn't do all that much for me.

      That said, it's hard not to smile when a banjo starts playing---but it's not necessarily a smile born of fondness.

      Fortunately, a piano starts in soon, along with what presumably is the artist's voice rendering a sort of Billy Joel Piano Manesque musician's ballad. Unfortunately (even with the arrival of percussion later on), the artist's voice isn't enough to save this piece. Specifically, his vocal talents are unclear. There are the minor flaws that you expect from a musician early in his or her career, but the bottom line is that this guy needs some training.

      I hate to sound like Simon Cowell here, but let's be honest here. The voice is nasal; this comes through even on the long notes when he should be opening up. Any tone that he has is lost in the back of his throat and nose, and never manages to actually get out of the front of his face. This is true throughout the song, occasionally punctuated by loss of pitch and timbre control.

      The voice makes the song difficult to listen completely through, and also makes the lyrics difficult to understand in places. But the lyrics I can understand aren't especially strong, and while the tune isn't bad, it's not very catchy. Well, no, that's not entirely true: it's catchy for a few measures, and then it changes its mind. For example, the bit that ends with "Music's horn and I know that I can't stay" [I know that's not right, but that's what it sounds like he's saying] is quite nice, but then it decides to be briefly something else with an awkward meter and mangled melody, and never quite manages to get catchy again.

      Then there's the pointless meandering interlude in the middle of the song. Some ideas are merely bad, but others need to be taken out back and beaten soundly for a while. This is one of the latter. This yabble takes up a good 30% of the track before it gets briefly back to the catchy part, and then showcases some of the guy's long notes and bad falsetto.

      This is not a great track. It's amateurish. It's the sort of music I used to hear from inflated egos in a small-town high school.

      This is not to say that there's not potential here. With some work, he'd be a passable tenor, and might actually sell a few CDs, but this particular CD already has a serious black mark on it. Even if I bought this CD, I'd reburn it without this track. This should not be the first track you have people listen to.
    • Reluctance: Piano and bass guitar start out this piece very nicely. For eight notes. Yet, even in those eight notes, the pianist bungles the rhythm, losing the beat a bit by rushing the piece. Then hope takes a blow to the head by the arrival of another guitar which overwhelms the artist's voice that follows. This is less a fault with the musicians than it is the studio; this track desperately needs a remix.

      Beyond that, this just isn't a good piece. The instrumentation is harsh, the percussion actually detracts, and the piece has some si
    1. Re:A review of the album. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Excellent review. I am impressed that you made it through the whole thing. I stopped after the first song.

      The song and arrangement is key - you can have a great song marred by poor performance or production, or a crap song played perfectly and recorded by geniuses; I'd still rather listen to the great song.

      My advice to this guy would be to play live. A lot. Sell the CDs for what they will go for. Save up for the next record, while downgrading the mp3s to lower quality Prepare to never break even, to live in obscurity, to be ripped apart by faceless critics. Then give everyone the finger and do what needs to be done.

  41. band sales by FaultMachine · · Score: 1

    Personally I make all my bands music available on the web. We get cd orders by mail and sell merch at all of our shows. I think the mp3 is a good promotional tool. How else is someone in California going to find out and listen to a local band out of the midwest?!?! http://www.faultland.com