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BitTorrent Blamed for Matrix2 Downloads
MartyJG writes "The BBC are running a story on how Matrix Reloaded is available via P2P. This time BitTorrent is taking the heat for the distribution - even though there's no company behind it to drag over the coals. The story speculates about the source of the copy, suggesting it's from a film or digital source rather than a cinema-screen-leech." Despite this piracy, the flick has made over $365M already. Including my tickets. Twice.
Maybe the copies are another form of control... Give us a grainy low res version to excite us and then grab the $8 admission to the movie.... The matrix has us!
"If ignorance is bliss, why aren't there more happy people in the world?"
Haven't they figured out yet that the people that download this crap will NEVER EVER actually buy the DVD release. If you're going to spend DAYS downloading some crappy copy over a P2P network rather than spend a lousy $10 to see it, then that's sad. My time is worth more than a $10 movie ticket. I'll see it in the theater and buy the DVD when it comes out.
The writeup says it all: The friggin' movie has made 365M already! Not to mention to utter PILES of cash from all the merchandizing and cross-promotion...
I don't know what it cost to make, but to whine that "a few hundred million isn't enough, those bastards are ripping us off" doesn't leave me with a whole lot of sympathy.
How much is enough, Hollywood?
Movies like the Matrix, Lords of the Rings etc are social events. People will watch it in the cinema among their friends family no matter how easy it is to get at divx copy.
The story speculates about the source of the copy, suggesting it's from a film or digital source rather than a cinema-screen-leech.
Wow, sounds like the culprit is an insider! Perhaps someone should contact these guys and point out the "inadvertant error" in their analysis before the real criminals get away?
Eve Fairbanks says I drive a hybrid!LOL
And that's exactly what should be done. That's what should have been done in the days of napster. The tool is not illegal, the crime is.
Considering that some people are seeing the movie more than once and how much it has grossed so far, complaining about illegal downloads seems so redundant, it's almost laughable !
I'll take a bet 95% of people who have an illegal copy of the movie have paid to see it.
There's no substitue for seeing a movie like the matrix on a big screen.
A slashdotting - you get the stick first and then the carrot !
No, but many non-matrix fans will download it just for the sake of seeing it, instead of waiting to rent it at blockbuster.
The rental industry is getting killed by movie piracy online. If you're a fan of a film, you'll go to the theatre to see it.
But all those so-so films that you tell yourself "I'll wait and rent it", can now be downloaded free-as-in-hobo at your leisure.
Of course we only need justify this the same way as we do with MP3 'sharing'; Why should I pay to see a movie that only has one good character and the rest is filler?
I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
Let's face facts - you probably don't have the same profile as the majority of people downloading the movie.
On the surface, I agree with you - I've seen it, and even if I downloaded a copy I'm going to buy it when it comes out on DVD anyway. Yet, if I downloaded it, they'd claim I "cost them" $30 or so (1 ticket price and one DVD price).
But the fact is that it is their content and as long as it's available to you (currently in the theater). There's never been a good argument for piracy, but then there's no evidence that piracy is really costing them money anyway. I wish they'd wake up and smell the coffee - every time a newer, better, more flexible medium comes along they throw a shit fit, and yet end up making more money than they ever did before.
Stupid sexy Flanders.
Release the DVDs earlier, and people will buy them instead of downloading. And those who still download probably wouldn't have bought a DVD anyway - for them the choice was a) don't have it or b) pirate it. They were not open to choice c) 'buy it' in the first place. That is the fallacy that the MPAA/RIAA rely on when citing "piracy concerns" - they assume that everyone who has Item X would have paid for it if it were not available in pirated form; that is a faulty assumption.
The fact that large-scale movie piracy (and indeed, any piracy) is happening is an indicator that people are largely unsatisfied with the current prices and/or distribution methods.
Natural != (nontoxic || beneficial)
Apart from the obvious one that the 'low quality DVDs' are probably exactly the same data that is being touted as a high quality bit-torrent file...
There was no 'co-ordinated worldwide release' for Reloaded, here in Britain we got it a week an a half later than the US.
There were a whole host of pirate versions on alt.pictures.binaries.divx before the film was even released over here.
As for a solution to the problem, I've seen the film at the cinema, and I'd buy it on DVD, but guess what, there is no legitimate DVD yet.
I'd be tempted to download a divx as a stop-gap until the DVD is released (in it's final, most complete version) but I know that divx files rarely play back with sound even with the latest 5.05 release of the divx codec for Mac.
A pizza of radius z and thickness a has a volume of pi z z a
To a point, yes. However, if a tracker gets overloaded, everyone suffers.
-- the source of the copy, suggesting it's from a film or digital source rather than a cinema-screen-leech--
Howabout going after themselves? I remeber a few days before Episode II came out I had a copy...and it was terrible. Sure I watched it and was wowed but when the movie came out I still went and saw it. Now if YOUR OWN COMPANY leaks a pristine digital copy it seems to me that the problem is your own company and not a file format (.torrent). And as many people pointed out, Ive seen matrix twice now and I garuntee you anyone searching out reloaded on bit torrent is A. a huge fan and B. will or has already shelled out to see it.
If they start to sue individual users since there is no company ill boycot the 3rd movie. Just like ill never buy a CD again (i support my artists by buying a tshirt at concerts, that is where they make money) the only thing you can do these days is vot with your dollar.
You guys (and gals) talk so much shit about the MPAA but who pays their salaries? You do. Everytime you see the matrix / LOTR your paying their lawyers to hunt people down. Never forget that.
---- The real Slashdot is still here. You just have to browse at -1 to read the comments.
Thats the first thing I did was see it in the theatre. You know, every movie that looks to be worth it, I have went and seen. I think the movie industry wants to blame P2P'ers for their lack of 'estimated growth', but I think they are just making shitty movies. Good ones I have no problem paying for, or seeing 2 times (lord of the rings), but I will still download it later. :P And no worries, its allready 1/2 way complete.
No I didnt spell check this post...
I've also heard that movie theaters are in far more trouble from video rentals than they could possibly be from file sharing. Who wants to go to some sticky-floor theater and eat overpriced greasy popcorn and pay $10 per person for tickets when you can rent a DVD and watch it on your home theater with your friends for less than the price of one ticket? Viewers are starting to figure that out.
These days I hardly ever go see big-release movies in the theater. I saw Spiderman and LOTR 1 and that's about it. Oh yeah, Attack of the Clones because a friend dragged me to the theater. I haven't seen LOTR 2 yet and I'm looking forward to seeing it, but I'm going to wait for a DVD rental. If that puts another nail into the MPAA's coffin, I'm all for it.
After seeing the moving on opening day, I went straight home to see if I could find it on BT. Started downloading it and completed it after a day or two. Started to watch the first 3 minutes and promptly deleted both VCDs. The movie was grainy like it was filmed on a 8mm video camera. It also had an annoying 4 degrees of tilt and the bightness was constantly fading up an down. The sound was good though, as long as you don't mind it fading from left to right to both to neither.
If someone put the matrix up for grabs, why not grab it. I am surprised that BitTorrent was the only P2P program mentioned by our friends at the BBC. I mean come on, IRC ring a bell?
Stay far from the timid, and live the pharse the skys the limit.
The majority of their target are probably 20's-30's, working males. Many of them downloading it are probably only filling the gap between when they no longer want to see it in the theater and when they can get the DVD. I did the same thing for LotR:FotR and LotR:TTT. I downloaded the movie, but the second that dvd comes out I"m getting the extended edition. Why? I want to watch the movie now, but I want the actual DVD when I can get it. Will I download Matrix Reloaded? Maybe. Will I buy Animatrix, matrix:reloaded and matrix when they come out on dvd? Of course. (And yes I realize matrix is out, I want to get it w/ reloaded though.)
350 million in a couple of weeks is not "'debilitating' for the industry no matter how they slice the pie.
But hey, at least bittorrent is getting some advertising in.
I do security
The one advantage the movie industry has with piracy is the fact that to really enjoy a movie like The Matrix - you gotta go see it on the BIG screen with Dolby/THX at bone crushing volume
...
Try doing that at home without the wife ripping your head off
---- "Logoff! That cookie shit makes me nervous!" - A. Soprano
The MPAA and the RIAA keep blaming the people who are downloading this stuff, yet they never look at how this stuff gets out there in the first place.
Where can a high-quality version of this movie or any other movie come from than from the people who work with it in their own studios? That's where they need to concentrate their efforts if you ask me.
If it is available to download, then people are going to download it, including myself. But how did it get out there?
Think about it!!
"If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullshit."
OK, you rail against the MPAA but pay twice to see shallow garbage like "The Matrix Reloaded"?
I didn't expect journalistic integrity but I'd like to see a longer-than-10-second attention span..
Ahh, you are the opposite of me. I like to prescreen the movie before going to see it in the movie theatre. I barely got the second half of the telesync version before I went to see it at the movies. Luckily the first half was good enough to make me think it was worth my money to go see.
Btw, you act as if you can't both download the movie and watch it in the theatre, you can. Pretty much every movie I have watched in the movie theatre was prescreened by watching a cam/screener version of it beforehand.
Oh, and remember to wait for the credits to finish after the movie ends, you get to see a preview of Matrix Revolutions that is coming ( I think ) this
November.
I can't afford a sig!
...if they'd put the thing up for grabs themselves to whoever was willing to pay, say 5 bucks for the download. People like myself who really want to see this movie will still be headed to the cinemas.
after watching the Matrix in the theatre here in Saint Petersburg, Russia, imagine my surprise that upon taking the metro home, i saw a metro vender selling the mpeg4 CD for $2. full color cover and everything.
as soon as i got home, it was already available on our apartment network. sheesh!
I can justify it. I've seen it in the theatres, I plan on seeing it again, and I plan on buying the DVD the day it comes out. Somehow, I don't think anybody would care if I download it since they're still making their money off me.
Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day, but teach a man to phish...
I know this isn't a very popular point of view 'round here, but going after the people "sharing" the works is actually what the copyright industry *should* be doing under their existing legal protections. What they are doing instead is trying to buy/manipulate the law to the point where they've turned our potentially liberating technology into an esophagus from the corporate content industry to the consumer. I for one, would prefer they prosecute offendors under their existing protections rather than turn our PCs and other computing devices into next-generation cable TVs...
Trouble making decisions? Just flip for it.
retard alert! take out the spaces
When I buy a CD or movie, the bulk of what I feel I'm paying for is quality of the product and the fact that I like the production and want to support the artist(s) that produced it. I personally am out there sampling stuff because I'm board. Being a person who hates spending money, I can admit that I've bought 2 CDs and a half dozen DVDs (and a 'to buy' list 7 DVDs long) because of p2p. Knowing myself, I can honastly say that I would not have bought a single CD, and maybe only one or two DVDs, nevermind the computer to watch/listen to them on...
If they really wanted to cut down on piracy, all they would have to do is offer zero-day official DVD's - they could have just the movie with no extras for $5. Most people would probably buy that to get a great copy, and also go to the theater as well for the experience...
They can then offer the DVD later with all the extras, and most people would buy that too. At least for movies like the Matrix... it would probably only be a good plan for mega-movies and not smaller stuff.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
I've read through most of the posts up here, and while most or either (a) jokes about the Matrix or (b) actually somewhat reasonable in their tone, a percentage, as always are (c) attempts to justify or moralize piracy. This always bugs me to no end, and now I believe I finally have a real logical argument to make against piracy without resorting to the simplistic "it's just wrong" argument...
What you are stealing from a movie company, record label or software developer is a SERVICE that you otherwise would have paid for, not a tangible product, not intellectual property, not potential income, but simply a service.
By way of example, let's say you get a copy of Photoshop. Sure, it's $699 or whatever it goes for today and you wouldn't have bought it anyway. Fine, no argument about lost income then, Adobe can't claim a loss on something they wouldn't have gotten in the first place.
However, you now have the service of that program with no compensation to the author. It's not so much the copy of the program being a problem, but the fact that you aren't paying for the service it provides.
As an admittedly contrived analogy, let's say you grab a guy off the street and make him mow your lawn at gunpoint. You are benefiting from his service without conpensating him. Had you not held the gun to your head, you would have had to compensate him for providing the service. While I admit there is nothing analogous to a gun when copying software or a movie, the argument still holds.
What service does a movie provide? Well, assuming it's not an utter piece of crap, entertainment is of course the answer. Therefore, to get a copy of the Matrix and watch it and enjoy it is deriving benefit of the service that movie provides without compensating those that should be compensated for creating it.
THIS is why piracy is wrong. No analogies to stealing a car, no arguments about lost potential profits, nothing like that. Simply put, a service is being stolen, and that is wrong.
Since this is Slashdot, and everything has to have a Microsoft spin one way or another, let me point out that this is the reason that Microsoft is pushing for a service-based model of the world. If you use Word for an hour, you are making use of the services the program provides for that timeframe. Hence, you are in essence renting it. In fact, to force people to purchase the software as we do today is actually worse for us as consumers in many ways. If you rent a car for a week but only drive it for two hours on Monday, your still paying for that entire week whether you used the car or not. This happens with software too. Microsoft has come up with some essnetially arbitrary value and assigned it to their software. You pay that amount and use it as much as you want. You might think you make out good because you use the software so much that the price seems good, but you also might use it so little that when calculated your paying on the order of $50 an hour or something (I'm pulling numbers out of my ass to illustrate the point, they may or may not be remotely accurate).
Microsoft however recognizes the essential fact that what they are selling is not a tangible product, but the service of a piece of software. This is also why you license software rather than purchase it outright incidentally. By offering software as a service, as the marketing monkeys have told us they want to do, they are in essence charging us for the real thing we are purchasing from them, the service, rather than a convenient representation of that (the software itself in purchaseable form). We will pay for the exact amount of that product we use, not some arbitrary amount. Note that I'm not saying I'm for this, mearly that it is a more accurate way of charging people and in effect is charging for what is actually being purchased, which is not really the case today.
If a pion (n-) collides with a proton in the woods & noone is there to hear it, does lamdba decay into the source pa
BitTorrent is centralized heavily.
.torrent files themselves must be hosted and consumed.
.torrent files refer to a Tracker that must remain online. Peers communicate with the Tracker to find seeds and other peers to download from.
First, the
Second, the
Which leads to the third part.. Go get one of the newer advanced BitTorrent clients. Some of them list all peers that your system can see, detailing their progress completion, IP address, and how fast they are moving data to-and-from you.
Now, who's to say someone from the **AA can't hop onto a tracker and get a bunch of IP's of infringers? Each infringer is hosting part of, or all of a file. These files are crc checked and everything, they can concievably prove that you are making this data available to all. These infringers have nothing to hide behind because they are chasing a single file, not 'sharing' or whatever else you want to call it on Kazaa.
Anyway, I love Bittorrent. It's a great way to do the P2P thing, but don't pretend you're invincible.
I bought 2 chocolade bars yesterday, so it's okay that I steal one today?
Here's the only issue with that argument, and erally the biggest problem with "piracy" in general.
Each candy bar has to be manufactured seperately. Each one uses up x amount of resources (sugan, cocoa, milk, etc) and is therefore intrinsically worth a certain amount, since it takes time and money to produce a steady supply of these resources (manpower being a resource as well).
A movie, especially in a digital format (DivX, etc) is produced ONCE. Each copy uses up no extra resources (except maybe hard drive space). Every time you make a copy, nobody has to get back in front of the cameras, rebuild sets, spend hours in a makeup room, no more cars are thrown of bridges and nobody spends all night creating complex computer generated sequences.
Once the movie is made, there is no longer any resources required to duplicate and maintain it. Therefore, it has no intrinsic value.
How can you really "steal" something that, physically, has no intrinsic value?
That's the real issue here.
=Smidge=
Cars blamed for drunk driving deaths
Guns blamed for armed robbery
Airport security blamed for terrorism
Music blamed for school shootings
McDonald's blamed for fat people
I could go on...
If it sucked, why would you want it? I saw the movie in the theater and it did, indeed, suck big green donkey dicks. It *blew*. I can't imagine wasting my time downloading a copy of this crap.
Max
My god carries a hammer. Your god died nailed to a tree. Any questions?
I really don't understand the "Wanhh, the movie industry isn't giving me exactly what I want exactly how I want it, so I'm going to steal it since they're clearly ripping me off... yet I'm doing nothing wrong" mentality.
I actually help pirate movies and games, and I think any attempt to justify my actions is ridiculous. I know what I'm doing is wrong; I'm not foolish enough to pretend it isn't.
The movie industry has the right to produce crap and distribute it however they like. They have the right to charge you $100 a ticket. And guess what... even if they did, you STILL wouldn't have any right to sneak into a theater or pirate the movie. If you think they're charging too much, or they're taking too long to get the DVD to you.. tough shit. I know it's painful to hear, but you don't have any rights when it comes to movies.. unless you've already paid your money.
It's absurd: Someone makes a product you want, but you don't need. They don't want to sell it to you at the price you would like to pay for it.. and they don't want to give it to you (in DVD form, in this case) when you want to receive it. Too damn bad. It's THEIRS.. they can do with it whatever they please. If you have a problem with it, then don't support them... but it's never justifiable to steal something you merely WANT, simply because you can't legitimately obtain it in a manner that would please you.
That being said... I pirate some stuff because I want it quickly, and half of the stuff I seriously wouldn't buy even if I couldn't pirate it.. For the most part, I just enjoy collecting things. If someone makes a product that I think should be supported, I pay for it. I do not think, however, that what I'm doing is okay. I just acknowledge that I'm not the most morally upstanding person around. Piracy supporters: Stop fooling yourselves.
I remember reading an article in the week before the Reloaded was released, that predicted that the R-rating would hurt ticket sales by a little, while also anticipating the movie to be one of the strongests box office draws of all time.
In the past those age-challened would sneak into theatres to see these R-rated films. It was almost a rite of passage. Many of today's kids are more tech-savvy and probably more likely to download a bootleged copy than sneak into the theatre. Yet I cannot recall one case where the MPAA complained about lost money due to people sneaking into theatres. Particularly those big ones with designated exit doors, where one could patiently wait outside until a patron leaves the theatre.
I'm sure the MPAA wouldn't try to crackdown on the theatres with relaxed security, because without the theatres, a lot of revenue is lost. 4 people can happily enjoy a DVD for $20 instead of seeing it in a theatre for $10 each.
Laziness is a virtue, anyone who bothers to tell you otherwise, is clearly lacking it.
Sure does. But IRC isn't automated P2P: you download from one person at a time, there is no centralized source for searches, etc. So, technically, it's "peer-to-peer" in the English sense of the word, but "server/client" in the technological sense.
Allow me to recommend a film, Rabbit Proof Fence by Phillip Noyce. It's a movie about how the Australian government used to behave with respect to Aboriginals. Kind of like the Matrix, except it's true. And it's not stuuuuuuupid.
Don't be a sheep, see an intelligent movie.