The Computational Requirements for the Matrix

goombah99 writes "Nick Bostrom discusses the computational requirements needed to simulate human existence. He offers a proof based on the anthropic principle, that you are almost certainly a computer simulation and not "real". The idea is that given that humans don't go extinct in geologically short time then eventually computer capability will allow complete simulation of the human cortex. Consequently, there must be far more simulations running in future millennia than seconds since you were born. Thus its astronomically more likely you are a simulation than real ... if humans don't go extinct shortly. Recalling the 13th floor, Robin Hanson discusses how one should try to live in a simulation. David Wolpert also weighs in on the physical limits of Turing machines for simulation of the universe. This also may explain why time travel seems impossible: we dont meet visitors from the future since only the present is being simulated."

Comments

and this my friends is why

[cyrax777]

drugs are bad mmmmkay

Re:and this my friends is why

[Chakde Phate!]

Incorrect. All that needs to be simulated is what you actually perceive. In modern games, the engine calculates what can and can't be seen and doesn't draw the things that can't be seen. A simulation would use a much more sophisticated version of that algorithm. If you're looking through a microscope, microbes are individual simulated. If you aren't looking through the microscope, then they aren't simulated, or are simulated in the aggregate to calculate gross effects that might be perceivable (such as tainted meat causing food poisoning.)

This is the premise of Stephen Baxter's short story 'Phase Space'. It was some time since I read it, but the idea was that all humanity lives in a simulation which does exactly what you describe, and simulates only what we are looking at at the time. The 'hardware' behind the simulation gets more and more complicated over time to cope with our increased understanding of the universe.

Eventually, the simulated universe ends because some human suspects this and fires a laser beam at Alpha Centuri to prove it. He reasons that it would be impossible for the simulation to expand to fill such a large volume that quickly, and so the laser beam wouldn'd bounce back...unfortunately, the simulation just shuts down. As the great Terry Pratchet said, if someone put a big red button in a cave with "End of the World Button -- DO NOT TOUCH" written on it, the paint wouldn't have time to dry...

I Want Out!

[Anonymous Coward]

Where is the red pill?

woooah

[mjdth]

this article is way too deep for 3 am. i'll just wait until /. accidently reposts it sometime later this week at a more reasonable hour.

but either way, i wouldn't believe this because it would be too scary if it were true.

Re:woooah

[pyrote]

That's what they were wanting you to say... it's all written... here on this cd.

Re:woooah

[evilviper]

The /. has you...

Follow the white rabbit...

Re:woooah

[MainframeKiller]

I don't see how it's truth would change anything (from your mind's perspective, at least), so I'm not sure why you would find it "too scary." Consciousness built on neurons made of atoms is no more real than consciousness built on simulationed neurons made of simulationed atoms. Consciousness is as consciousness does.

My Momma always said life is like a box with a cat in it, you never know if it is alive or dead...

What do you expect, it's 5 am and I'm stuck at work!

So...

[orange_6]

I'm simulated.

Can I still be stimulated?

Looks like a TNT32 card and a 500mhz to me

[CrazyJim0]

Its not bullet time, so much as FPS lag.

You mean I can dodge bullets?

[SolubleFrank]

No, I'm telling you your just trapped.

So that means...

[BanSiesta]

So I'm just a piece of code then? I bet I'm not even indented properly. Bastards!

I hope I don't get optimized away...

#include "universe.h"

[rice_burners_suck]

If we really are living in a simulation, I think we need to send someone outside to hook up a NAT server, so we can connect the Internet to the world that encloses ours.

Advantages: We will be able to communicate with the people who run our world from the "real" world. I can already see people on IRC asking all kinds of favors, like "I want to be rich. Someone important. Like an actor."

Disadvantages: Script kiddies will get into the machines of the "real" world and they'll perform a DOS attack. Next thing you know, you're just walking down the street minding your own business when suddenly the street you were on turns into a toxic waste dump and a couple of identical cats walk by.

But anyway, if we ever do build a simulation, we should definitely connect our Internet into the world we make. That way, people who figure it out will be able to communicate with us. We'll tell 'em we're God... Screw the Prime Directive.

Where do I submit patches

[Timesprout]

Cos I have a few changes I would like to make to this simulation. Simple things like

Person* Timesprout = GetPerson(xxxxx); Timesprout->physique = "Addonis";
Timesprout->attraction_level = "irristible to supermodels and actresses;'
Timesprout->wealth = BILL_GATES->wealth * 10;
Timespout->abode[0] = "Island paradise surrounded by beautiful nubile girls";
Timesprout->car[0] = "Ferrari spider";

I'll see how these work out before commiting more.

Re:Where do I submit patches

[Soko]

And the output:

Warning: Use of undeclared variables on line 1

Compiler error at line 2, missing ";"

Compilation aborted.

If you're going to program life, you'd better be a damned good coder.

Soko

Whoa

[Iron Monkey543]

I just had my 8th Corona. All of this crap just made more sense.

life();

[aardwolf204]

So what your saying is that if life as we know it is a simulation then the meaning of life() is Return 0;

Re:Can the Matrix simulate independent thought?

[spacecowboy420]

So are you suggesting distributed computing via humans for our robot leaders? To what end? Do they wanna find aliens too?

Re:Episode of Star Trek

[Treskin]

Taking bets on how many people actually say "Computer, end program" out loud while reading this post.

The Matrix?

[Sunlighter]

You can download the Boost library for C++ and have a Matrix in your own computer already. I think it even has a Matrix class. So you can pose and possibly answer important questions like:

• Is the Matrix square or rectangular?
• If it's square, what is the Determinant of the Matrix? (My hypothesis: The One. But we'll have to see the last movie to find out.)
• If it's square, what is the Cofactor Matrix?
• If the Matrix is square, does it have an Inverse? What is it?
• Is it a floating-point Matrix, a Matrix of exact arbitrary-precision rationals, or a Matrix of bits like the ones Knuth used in his MMIX processor? (Maybe it's a Matrix of Unicode code points, which would explain those freaky green displays.)
• If it is floating-point, how does it deal with round-off errors? How does it deal with denormals, infinities, and NANs?
• If it is rectangular, what would be the result of Gauss-Jordan elimination? (I can imagine Agent Smith wanting to use that.) How long would it take to compute? (If it's not wider than it is long, Gauss-Jordan won't do much good, although in that case you could use Gauss-Jordan on the transpose of the Matrix. If the Matrix is square, Gauss-Jordan will only produce the Identity Matrix.)

Sure is interesting to think about. (Heh heh...)

Re:Episode of Star Trek

[MyHair]

No, silly. That's passe. People will be sshnuke'ing the whole internet looking for backdoors (and wearing tight leather). That's the current hip thing.

Obligatory matrix bastardisation

[comet_11]

Trinity: Morpheus, the post was modded down, I don't know how.

Morpheus: I know, they used the overrated exploit. There's no time, you're going to have to get to another post.

Trinity: Are there any trolls?

Morpheus: Yes.

Trinity: Goddammit.

Morpheus: You have to focus, Trinity. There are mod points at Wells and Lake. You can make it.

Trinity: All right.

Morpheus: Go.

Re:Remember...

[bumby]

And sometimes he make rollbacks, that is when you experinse Déjà Vu :-P

Biggest flaw is...

[Pedrito]

I think the biggest flaw in his argument actually supports possibility of living in a "matrix" even more. He assumes that the consciousness of 6 billion people in the world are being simulated. Why? What if I'm the only simulation? All the other people in the world could just be representations for me to interact with.

I know you think this is your simulation, but sorry, it's really mine. I'm the "real" on here.