Slashdot Mirror
NASA Launching Two Mars Rovers in June
shaniber writes "NASA is planning the launch of the Mars Exploration Rovers this month. The rovers are scheduled for two two separate launches, between June 5th and July 15th. These rovers will both work as robotic geologists, including a human-eye height panoramic camera and a miniature thermal emmision spectrometer amongst their scientific equipment. NASA plans on webcasting the launches, as well. A press kit, with many more details, is also available as a pdf."
So the mission is to find evidence of past water on Mars, huh? I hope at least one of the rovers lands in a puddle.
"Nothing shocks me. I'm a scientist." -Indiana Jones
Have they tried putting those Japanese walking talking dogs on the planet? Or maybe just some human flesh to see how it reacted to being on the atmosphere?
I think we should bring back a huge piece of the Mars rock and put it on the moon and see if that somehow makes a chemical reaction that blows up the moon and we all are fearful of the crazy world Mars like in those 50s flicks.
Anyways this post just PROVES how ignorant the average man is to Mars and we need these rovers to prove my theories wrong, now march rovers, march!
[cx]
The science payload's page is on Cornell's site here.
I think it would be great to see some real color 3-D imagery from beyond Earth. They say human-eye height panoramic camera, but how about having two lenses to capture a 3D image? I'd pay $10 for a little View-Master with real 3D pictures from Mars, wouldn't you?
Oh dear. More cute rovers buzzing along the surface only to be abandaned later.
I felt sorry for that one a few years back. Kind of like leaving a puppy when you move.
My studio - www.graylands.ca
In the past, I would have been adamant in defending the shuttle program/ISS, but lately I've been wondering why so many billions have been spent on manned missions when that 500 million (USD) per launch could have been better spent (IMHO) on space probes.
FYI, these probes cost about 400 million (USD) each, and promise to return more science value than
all Shuttle missions combined (IMHO).
Granted, it was said of the very valuable (scientifically speaking) Apollo missions that 90 seconds of human-on-alien-world visual observation was more valuable than weeks or months of robot observations.
Still, given their cost and advancing robotic/computer technology, I would be very disappointed if NASA continued to spend so much on manned space "exploration."
Spacecraft
Cruise vehicle dimensions: 2.65 meters (8.7 feet) diameter, 1.6 meters (5.2 feet) tall
Rover dimensions: 1.5 meter (4.9 feet) high by 2.3 meters (7.5 feet) wide by 1.6 meter (5.2 feet) long
Weight: 1,062 kilograms (2,341 pounds) total at launch, consisting of 174-kilogram (384-pound) rover, 365-kilogram (805-pound) lander, 198-kilogram (436-pound) backshell and parachute, 90-kilogram (198-pound) heat shield and 183-kilogram (403-pound) cruise stage, plus 52 kilograms (115 pounds) of propellant
Power: Solar panel and lithium-ion battery system providing 140 watts on Mars surface
Science instruments: Panoramic cameras, miniature thermal emission spectrometer, MÃssbauer spectrometer, alpha particle X-ray spectrometer, microscopic imager, rock abrasion tool, magnet arrays
Rover A Mission
Launch vehicle: Delta II 7925
Launch period: June 8-24, 2003
Earth-Mars distance at launch: 105 million kilometers (65 million miles)
Mars landing: Jan. 4, 2004, at about 2 p.m. local Mars time (8:11 p.m. Jan. 3 PST)
Landing site: Gusev Crater, possible former lake in giant impact crater
Earth-Mars distance on landing day: 170.2 million kilometers (105.7 million miles)
One-way speed-of-light time Mars-to-Earth on landing day: 9.46 minutes
Total distance traveled Earth to Mars (approximate): 500 million kilometers (311 million miles)
Near-surface atmospheric temperature at landing site: -100 C (-148 F) to 0 C (32 F)
Primary mission: 90 Mars days, or "sols" (equivalent to 92 Earth days)
Rover B Mission
Launch vehicle: Delta II 7925H (larger solid-fuel boosters than 7925)
Launch period: June 25-July 15, 2003
Earth-Mars distance at launch: 89 million kilometers (55 million miles)
Mars landing: Jan. 25, 2004, at about 1:15 p.m. local Mars time (8:56 p.m. Jan. 24 PST)
Landing site: Meridiani Planum, where mineral deposits suggest wet past
Landing time: Approximately 1:15 p.m. local Mars time (8:56 p.m. PST)
Earth-Mars distance on landing day: 198.7 million kilometers (123.5 million miles)
One-way speed-of-light time Mars-to-Earth on landing day: 11 minutes
Total distance traveled Earth to Mars (approximate): 491 million kilometers (305 million miles)
Near-surface atmospheric temperature at landing site: -100 C (-148 F) to 0 C (32 F)
Primary mission: 90 Mars days, or "sols" (equivalent to 92 Earth days)
Program
Cost: Approximately $800 million total, consisting approximately of $625 million spacecraft development and science instruments; $100 million launch; $75 million mission operations and science processing
I hear NASA specifically designed these new rovers to make a beautiful plume of dust when they crash into the Martian soil due to unforseen programming errors.
Earthbound telescopes should all be trained to the heavens to catch this marvelous use of taxpayer money.
A previous generation had the Apollo moon landing as a life defining moment, for me it was the Mars rover. I distinctly remember being glued to the life tv broadcast, watching the first images of mars being beamed back to earth, in full colour, high-res, 360 degree glory. Is there anything else that has come closer to bring humanity closer together than the wonder of space exploration? I don't think so. I hope for success for all the landers and probes. We need them to succeed if we are to achieve the next stage of humanity. You know, the Startrek stage. ;)
A long time ago, people used to hide on ships thats headed for various places, for one reason or another.
My question is: does anybody think it would be possible (let's assume one can get past the security, etc) to be a stowaway onboard the mars-bound spacecraft, if I don't plan to come back?
I mean, a spacesuit + a oxygen + urine/feces bag + yourself does not weight THAT much; and the acceleration won't kill you going up anyway.
So... what y'all think? haul ass to Mars, dig a shallow grave, and write in really big letters nearby: FIRST HUMAN HERE, BIATCH!
(i am not trolling, btw - in philosophy this would be considered a "thought excercise")
My life in the land of the rising sun.
ESA launched their Mars probe on June 2nd. So, in about half a year there will be three different probes landing on Mars if everything goes as planned.
"I'd rather have a full bottle in front of me than a full frontal lobotomy"
I never had you guys down as nationalist but I have been disapointed by many of the recent comments on /.
You never saw americans as nationalist? You must already have been on Mars for the past few years then.
Trust the Computer. The Computer is your friend.
Then the Martians will come up (practical jokers that they are) and put silly putty in the robotic hand and some lady Martian's thong underwear on the robotic arm.
Harpo Tunnel Syndrome--my wrist feels funny.
Instead of 400 000 000 USD Marsbots, why not 400 000 000 worth of research into more economic spacecrafts?
NASA really needs this to be a success, especially after the Columbia.
Given the past performaces of Mars expeditions, NASA is taking a big risk.
Of course, technology has improved, but is this a prudent bet for NASA?
I always had American's, in general, down as far too patriotic, usually bordering on nationalistic. But most of the posters on this site seemed to be pretty intelligent and cycnical individuals, not your average blue collar chaps, who are generally pretty nationalist in any country (look at the crap printed in the Sun for an example in the UK).
YES! :-)
Now it will be very soon we'll have certainty about life on Mars: reall competition (ESA+Rusia vs. NASA)
Ps. I'm not a fundamental capitalist; in a few instances competition is bad. But this is one of the many good examples imho.
If their estimates for launches in this month include the 15th of July.
Yes, for example such as the discovery of America :-)
Joke aside, I think that competition as well as cooperation is good. And here, I kinda see both.
Why does it really matter who makes an important discovery? Is the world scientific community somehow enriched more because Uwe in Vienna or Piet in Den Haag made the discovery before Steve in Alamogordo? Or is it more accurate to say that you hate America?
Your first sentence seems to lean toward the latter explanation, as you seem to be upset about U.S. "space dominance," despite the fact that a look at the STS mission crew bios is more multicultural than a Rainbow Coalition rally. Aboard the ill-fated Columbia mission, for the first example that comes to mind, we had the first Israeli in space; I believe his name was Ilian Ramon (although I could be wrong about his first name). Additionally, Kalpana Chawla was born in India. Granted, she was a U.S. citizen at the time of her death, but I'd still say that on the whole, the goodwill extended by NASA in offering to take up scientists of so many nations stands as an eloquent counterargument to your belief in some sort of American doctrine of "Manifest Space Destiny." Were I you, I'd worry more about my own demagoguery than the perceived dangers of American astronautical hegemony.
In my travels to Europe, South America, and the Pacific Rim, I've met hundreds of intelligent, friendly, and generally cool people. I can only hope that when they read such ill-informed and sneeringly smug commentary as yours, that they are as horrified as I am when I see an American behaving rudely towards someone from another country.
They that would sacrifice their
Seems like Europe is more application oriented (cheaper satellites) and the US is more research oriented (Mars, scientific fanfare, etc.).
Another question, can the US match Europe's space business model?
It would be very nice to see some more space activity conducted in the private sector. They tend to get things done a little more effectively than the feds.
:)
Drax had a point.
Probably because throwing money and/or food at a Third World country doesn't help raise the standard of living (except for the standard of living of the fatuous oligarchies in power in most of them). I submit Somalia as an example of how the entire world can get behind a relief effort, only to watch it fail miserably because they're trying to cure a symptom and not the disease.
Ever look at the banana republics with their {brutally oppressive right-wing juntas|criminally inept left-wing politburos} and thought, Hey, maybe the crap living conditions in Absurdistan are a function of having a fscked-up governmental system, and not the other way around? You can't really do much for a country in the throes of terminal governance. There's a hell of a lot to be said for a free press, too -- I believe it was anthropologist Amarta Sen who noted that there hasn't been a famine in any country with a truly free press.
You really want to help the hell-holes of the world? Go down to one and start teaching the people about the importance of property rights, rule of law, freedom of expression, and circumscription of government behavior. The payoff from that would be worth a whole air wing of B-2s.
Of course, it's entirely possible that you think that my proposal is just another Terrible American(TM) trying to force his eeeevil Western values and culture onto the people of Southern Trashcanamunda.
They that would sacrifice their
The Sun's an extreme example. It's one of those places where you have to search page by page to find something that isn't crap and when you do it's usually the page numbers.
The only person who thinks this is a terrible thing to do to a couple of doggies. poor things. Just give them a smack and lock them outside for a couple of hours, theres just no need to send them into space.
Do not try to read the dupe, thats impossible. Instead, only try to realize the truth
What truth?
There is no dupe
After all the anti-business sentiment around slashdot nowadays, I'm surprised to hear someone say that! Maybe someday soon we'll have astronauts on slashdot complaining about the fat cats at the top taking bonuses while the astronauts get laid off. :)
I agree with your point but with the away things are at the moment how long will it be before the European Space efforts become a 'threat' to US national security or some such nonsense and we all find ourselves in totally bizaar situation.
Do not try to read the dupe, thats impossible. Instead, only try to realize the truth
What truth?
There is no dupe
In the original space program when cost was no object, the idea was that you launched unmanned missions to see what there was to see and then send humans only when there was glory and really difficult science to do.
Maybe we should just scale up the programme - we're back in the unmanned phase and are going to send out swarms of probes until we find something to investigate that the probes CANNOT examine properley (ie we find life, or a big oil deposit, or a ruined city) and then and only then send people.
Hey, maybe if we sent enough small light probes we could have a scenario like the one in this online comic - everybody controls a probe of their very own as if it's a webcam with 20 min lag.
Trying out for the Most Sensational Darwin Award Ever, are we? I mean... you wouldn't just ensure that you could never pass on your genes, but your actual DNA and even the base elements its made up from would largely be removed from the planet earth! Now that's what I call a _thorough_ Darwin.
Go for it! 8)
Don't bring any foam!
Bad joke..
Which level of hell do you belong on.
Even though I'm American, I use Terrible American(TM) myself, mostly to refer to those tourists I see when I'm overseas who "go someplace different, and then complain because nothing's the same." (Apologies for not attributing the quote, because I can't remember from whom I'm stealing it.)
As far as Afghanistan goes, I'm all for helping them out: the first thing we should do is sit down with their government leaders and help them draft a constitution incorporating at a bare minimum the four points I mentioned above. Then we should give any company who does business (above a certain threshhold, say USD 10,000 a year) in Afghanistan the full amount of their profit, no taxation on the earnings. Construction companies and surveying teams should be permitted to have, say, two years' worth of tax freedom for rebuilding infrastructure in the nation, as well.
Finally, there ought to be incentives to promote a high-tech revolution in Afghanistan (cue up the Junis jokes, kids). Singapore saved itself with its electronics manufacturing; Afghanistan could do the same. Frankly, I'd love to see the Khyber Pass become the next Silicon Valley (I know the terrain is not analogous, but you get the gist).
Your last point brings up some thorny and controversial thoughts too -- we tried that with Saddam Hussein, but when we told the U.N. "put up or shut up" on UNSCRs 891, 1441, and all the other chart-topping hits between them, well, you saw what happened. Sometimes unilateral action's gotta happen.
They that would sacrifice their
Of course collaboration is possible; the bickering and acrimony we see is possible precisely because we already are so intertwined. It's like family squabbles - they can get so bad precisely because the participants have so much in common.
What I think people in europe react to (at least here in Sweden - no idea about France), is that american nationalism and patriotism is so over the top. It's "My country, right or wrong", and any kind of critizism or attempt to set facts straight, no matter how correct or warranted, is taken as a personal attack. I also think europeans may be more sensitive to that sort of thing because we've been there, done that, got the memorials. Nationalism was a continent-wide sport for several hundred years here, with the world wars just the last and most emphatic disasters that resulted. We know what results this sentiment can bring, and are pretty wary of it.
Trust the Computer. The Computer is your friend.
ROBOT WARS!
Beagle-2 has Rover-A up against the pit! Beagle-2 is charging!!!!
Oh that's got to hurt! Rover-A is ducking out of the way and giving Beagle-2 a quick whack with the rock abraision tool!
The cocky brit recovers but the solar panel is cracked. Yes that's right folks, the beagle-2 solar panel is definitely cracked, and has lost some of its power generating capabilities.
But wait! what's that under the ground??? the mole probe from beagle-2 is ripping up Rover-A's aluminium rocker bogie wheels!
Oh the humanity! they're joined together! they're rolling into the pit!
Where's the ref bots???
An extreme example maybe but The Sun is the mostly widely read paper in the UK (highest circulation figures). Most Europeans have distinct reservations about the UK press and its opinion forming effect on the UK populace.
This was modded down most likely because if the bad attitude.
But it brings up an interesting thought I think. Would the space program advance further if the space-going countries worked together, or would competition drive each respective company to reach farther, faster.
If you look at the Cold War, we went from failed rocket launchers to man on the moon relatively quickly (That is, if you choose to believe the man on the moon thing really happened).
Vonal Declosion
Especially since the Rovers A and B will be bringing foam.
See the bit about hubcaps.
I hear there are quite a lot of people in the USA without medical cover, why not spend the money on that?
Just let us assume for one moment that the European Mars Express with its Beagle 2 lander does find something they claim is a sure sign of life on Mars. It would mean that the first European planetary mission ever finds something that NASA has been looking for for decades. Somebody in Congress is going to take that as a personal insult and push the space program some more -- while the Europeans will find funding their probes a lot more interesting. More space exploration for all...
But this is just chicken feed. Can you imagine the U.S. watching China build and man a moon base? Even having Chinese astronauts ("taikonauts", I believe they are called) walking on the moon will make them nervous enough to push funding.
There is nothing like space exploration for a nation's scientific prestige. This hasn't been apparent for the last few decades because the U.S. and the Soviet Union both decided not to get into that kind of arms race again, and after the fall of communism, the U.S. has had a monopoly. If that is challenged, it is a good thing -- certainly better than trying to build the largest navy, the most atom bombs, or some of the other things we've had in the past.
Why send one when you can send two at twice the price! I guess they figure this time if one crashes they have a backup.
Mars???? It's already June!!!
"It's too bad that stupidity isn't painful." - Anton LaVey
They are doing something smart. Mars is going to be crowded place. I imagine that when we do finally get to mars we will be tripping over all the old landers.
Go NASA/ESA/Whoever else. I wanna goto mars or at least the moon.
-- Karma Karma Karma Karma, Karma Chameleon - Boy George
Highly intelligent response
I was simply pointing out that the last few times an article on European space technology has been posted it has been acompanied by comments about trans-Atlantic conflict, whereas this post of an article about American space technology was not.
/.?
The implication is that America going into space is great in all respects, whereas Europe going into space is antagonistic.
Am I being racist for pointing out this nationalist implication on
Anti-American posts and other flamebait is just as obnoxious, if not more obnoxious, than the flame you're complaining about
So being anti-American is worse than being anti-European? Personally I am of the opinion that both are equally ignorant and obnoxious, and that is why I am disapointed that the people running this site have let bias creep into their postings.
Actually, what would happen if somebody finds a mineral on mars that say can remember shapes, learn behaviours, and be formed into terrible weapons?
Yes it would increase funding, but ultimately all competition is about power. And some believe that power shared is power lost.
Heck the ability to land a person gently on another planet means that you are already a longtime member of the club that can launch spy-eyes into space and land bombs quite hard into major cities.
I say, tone down the rampant nationalism first and then when we discover a super-resource like bio-metal we can use it to make spaceships and not starfighters.
Either that or we'd better discover a peaceful planet to invade fast, so that we'd stop fighting amongst ourselves.
Of course, the Sun is owned by Murdoch who owns - wait for it - Fox. Now that the FCC regs have been relaxed, watch out for the US version of the Sun.
I've seen the Fox website and it's pretty much in line with what the sun is doing (modulo the semi-naked women). So I guess Murdochs MO is to drive up sales by harping on nationalist feelings. In the UK, this can get pretty extreme so I'd say he's playing with fire here.
Clearchannel were running pro-war rallies during Gulf II. I expect more of these in the future.
What has this to do with Mars missions? These things tend to have a large slice of dick-waving involved just to pump up the budgets - in some cases, just to get the budget in the first place.
Notice that the Beagle II - part of the Mars Express mission - is totally privately funded. Blur [1] and Damien Hirst [2] were involved and they helped to raise funds. Is there an equivalent on the US missions?
h.
[1] A popular modern upbeat combo, apparently
[2] A purveyor of dead sharks and multi-coloured spots in a post-modernist manner.
Patriotism is a virtue of the vicious
"Mom! this stereograph doesn't work! there's a rock in the middle that doesn't pop up."
"Hmmm... Well junior, that's because in the second photo that rock has grown little legs and moved to over there... Hey!"
Other countries should do more to help also
Percentage of budget of US foreign aid: 1.0% (dead last among western nations).
Percentage of that dedicated to military aid to allies: ~50%
Percentage of total aid that comes directly back to US companies: ~70%
Percentage of people polled that think we spend too much on foreign aid: 75%
Average response to the question, "how much should we spend on foreign aid?": 8.4%
How small a thought it takes to fill a whole life
Xine and Mplayer on Linux can theoretically at least use the RealPlayer codec.
The reason for RealPlayer is that there are native players available for Windows, MacOS and Linux, and that RealPlay data streams are well compressed (so that the Slashdot effect doesn't hurt too much). Many in the space industry use Unix almost exclusively, and so aren't keen to view on Windows or Mac.
Doesn't MPlayer ???
Mplayer - the movie player for linux.
tom-george.comBecause geeks rate higher t
As if mixing up metric and english conversion is not bad enough, NASA has found a new way possibly mess up a Mars trip. The potential for collision is probably miniscule, but with trying to achieve optimal paths the chance always is there for a collision with each other or with the EU attempt. In either event it would be a significant gaff.
Use your head, can't you, use your head,
You're on earth, there's no cure for that - S. Beckett
I remember once (long time ago) seeing a very funny drawing with too Martians smiling and holding up a picture of an empty surface with a few craters in front of a rover camera (so that we Earthians would think it's uninhabited). Has anybody else seen this? I'd love to find it since it was so funny so I'm sure the moderators will give you a +5, Funny if you can post a link :)
Karma. Moderation. Is my
This must be like some kind of online fight club thing then, with me as Edward Norton's character...
What really upsets me is when I catch myself out though...
Finally my name and the name of 3,551,644 other people will be sent to mars (on DVDs on board of the two landers, more details here)
:D
I hope E.T. will check this out soon
Maybe you and the other people making anti-American comments ought to get off Slashdot.
Maybe if you can't handle a tiny bit of back and forth on a public message board, you should steer clear of, say, Usenet groups and slashdot. Things aren't as controlled here as they are on Fox. Too bad.
The comment was that Americans are nationalist -- delivered with a wry grin. "Nationalism: a sense of national consciousness exalting one nation above all others and placing primary emphasis on promotion of its culture and interests as opposed to those of other nations or supranational groups." You'd be proud to call yourself a nationalist, wouldn't you?
I'm not sure where the "racist" part of that comes in... Get a grip.
"Fundamentalism" isn't about divine morality. It's about human authority.
The NASA website (http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/mer/mission/launch_e.htm l) gives the *current* projected times and dates. I am going to drive down (not far from there) on Sunday...
Mission: MER-A
* Launch Date: June 8, 2003
* Launch Time: 2:05:55 p.m. or 2:44:07 p.m. EDT
* Launch Vehicle: Delta II
* Launch Pad: 17-A
* Mission: MER-B
* Launch Date: June 25, 2003
* Launch Time: 12:38:16 a.m. or 1:19:19 a.m. EDT
* Launch Vehicle: Delta II
* Launch Pad: 17-B
So is "human height" 5 feet or 5 meters?
We're racist? Against what race exactly?
it's already the case:
U.S. 'negation' policy in space raises concerns abroad
One of these rovers discovers an advanced, humanoid civilization on Mars that has been previously overlooked.
The aliens are advanced enough to contact us via "primitive" radio signals and learn several of our languages in a few days.
Then we decide to meet. This would be the conversation:
Earthlings: So yeah, you should come here! That would be so cool. ...right. So, how about you just come here instead?
Martians:
Earthlings: Well, uhh... could we meet on the moon perhaps? About 30 years ago if possible?
Martians: No, we'd rather have you come here, it is much nicer than the moon or earth. How can you stand earth with all that oxygen?
Earthlings: Yeah, well, that's part of our problem with going there...
Martians: What?! You mean you can't even get here, and you can't genetically alter your bodies so they are suitable on other worlds? God, no *wonder* we've been ignoring you hicks for so long...
OK, sorry I have too much free time. ;)
"To confine our attention to terrestrial matters would be to limit the human spirit." -Stephen Hawking
Do you care to emphasize on "Europe's Business model" Just because they are pooling money from all nations to compose a united space program does not imply a business model. Structured research perhaps?
Sorry, there is no private funding of Beagle 2. It has been paid for as a consortium by the Department of Trade and Industry, ESA, the Wellcome Trust and PPARC. The involvement of Damien Hirst and Blur has been on a volunteer basis - both for their contributions and for the publicity they can give the project.
Best wishes,
Mike.
There is not (too much) competition. For instance: The american rover can use the Mars Express for comunication with Earth and the Beegle can use the american probes in case of problems.
The programs are complementary (well, the japanese one is a little less complementary, but only because is arriving four years later..).
The European Space Agency successfully launched theirs last Monday on a Russian rocket. Theirs cost $80 million compared to the US $400 million per craft. The Euros just have a robotic arm, while the Yanks use artificially intelligent rovers.
There is a low fuel (cheap) path to Mars in a two month window every 2.5 years. So this is why you see a flurry of launches. With a 40% success rate over the decades- 41 of 66 Mars craft didnt make it- hopefully at least one of these three will succeed. Lots of interesting craft planned for 2005 and 2008 launches.
I want a raw, live webcast. If "alien-made" objects show up, I want to see it! Demand that they land on the Face of Mars! Whoever lands on the face first wins.
--- I'm Green Hornet's sidekick not Inspector Clouseau's!
Space exploration isn't a football game (or soccer for the europeans, or ping-pong for the chinese :) )! Haven't we learned a lesson from Clarke's 2001 series with the Russians & Americans working together? Lets hope they pool their knowledge and are able to get the world's space program up to speed where it should be, instead of wasting time and money with dumb politics & wars. (Ok, this is starting to sound like a folk song...)
Who wants to go?
The computer in each Mars Exploration Rover runs with a 32-bit Rad 6000 microprocessor,
a radiation-hardened version of the PowerPC chip used in some models of
Macintosh computers, operating at a speed of 20 million instructions per second.
Onboard memory includes 128 megabytes of random access memory, augmented by
256 megabytes of flash memory and smaller amounts of other non-volatile memory,
which allows the system to retain data even without power.
. . . of space.
"We shall party like the Greeks of old! You know the ones I mean." - HedonismBot
Yeah, and as for the results of international cooperation in space, look at the space station. Late, bloated budget, possibly useless.... cooperation just doesn't work.
The goatse guy for president. Win one for the gaper!
I hope this two missions take place, mainly because I want to get the project I work on off this stinky dirty ball. They took our rockets because of planetary restriction which we don't have.
If you can stream, checkout a video feed of the 17A/B pads which hold the Rovers A & B resp. Plus it has the countdown!
Yes, perhaps some competition is a good thing. The real harm is done when
a) The parties are secretive against each other and do not share their discoveries (like during the cold war)
b) When the parties build duplicate versions of the same expensive thing (Gallileo/GPS comes to mind).
Why not stake out challenging and different goals for EU, the US and China. "We challenge you that we will have a man on Mars before your moon base is operational!".
Tor
If you have a decent 3D graphics card and an interest in unmanned space exploration, you should download Celestia:
a ges/mer.htm
http://www.shatters.net/celestia/
It runs on Windows, Linux, and OS X . . . Then, install one of the many spacecraft add-ons here:
http://homepage.eircom.net/~jackcelestia/
Images are here:
http://homepage.eircom.net/~jackcelestia/browseim
One add-on features a detailed model of the Mars rovers in interplanetary cruise configuration, together with two proposed trajectories for each rover. Add a high-resolution (8k x 4k) texture and bump map for Mars, and you'll have a very detailed and accurate simulation of the Mars missions. We're still trying to get trajectory data from the ESA so that we can make an add-on for the Mars Express mission.
--Chris
You neglect to point out that although the US doles out the smallest PERCENTAGE of its GDP, it still gives out more actual CASH than any other country in the world. Go ask a starving family in some third world country if they want 5% of the GDP of Luxemburg or 1% of the GDP of the US.
"It takes considerable knowledge just to realize the extent of your own ignorance." - Thomas Sowell
I hope you're being funny, because if not, you're woefully misinformed. One rover will be near the Gusev crater and the other will be at the Terra Meridiani hematite site, which are on opposite sides of the planet.
So.. poorer countries spend a larger portion of their (relatively smaller) wealth than the US on foreign aid. It hurts them even more, but they still do it.
What's your point?
How small a thought it takes to fill a whole life
I tremble to behold, the beautiful Anonymous Karma Whore in it's natural habitat. ooooh, she's a beaut, ain't she
-pyrrho
NASA knows how to put people into space, they also have nuclear technology, and more importantly, nuclear rocket technology. Why don't they just go right ahead and put people on Mars? The Chinese are going to put a base on the moon...
Stick Men
The website indicates that they will land on opposite sides of the planet ... presumably, this is to prevent the first traffic accident on Mars.
Will it have a high quality camera so I can get a bitchin wallpaper?
Take all the humidity, temperature, and chemical tests you want. but I want to see red mountains cool rocks and a three eyed green man walking around!
--Joey
There is another way to help/fix those counties
1. CANCEL ALL DEBT
2. CANCEL ALL FOREIGN AID, so that the dictators can get no money.
3. The people will prosper for having no debt to pay.
(btw this slow down cowboy rules sux, it should be active only after the 3rd message, not the first one)
*waits for 1 minute....., wheres this DHTML stuff to count down and let me know when its ok!??!?!?!?!*
Liberty freedom are no1, not dicks in suits.
Lets just go for it , and make 10-50 small 500lb probes which are major miniarized and have the max intruments,comms,minitelescope,everything it can fit, which 'ports' for upgrades/extra specific addons.
That way you can spend $5b on 50 things, and launch them with cheap ICMBs, and do like every planet 3 times over.
Have a permanent probe land on asteroids.
And these rovers should have longer lifetimes, why not place a damn WINDSCREENWIPERS, on the solar panels to get rid of the dust?
Liberty freedom are no1, not dicks in suits.
It's the delta-V.
With chemical rocket technology a huge proportion of the launch mass is propellant. The rocket equasion is pretty unforgiving - the cost of each extra m/s of delta-V is exponential.
On a close pass like this you can send a lot more mass to Mars for less money.
Stop worrying about the risks of nuclear power and start worrying about the risks of not using nuclear power.
The wellcome trust:
"The Wellcome Trust is an independent research-funding charity that aims to improve human and animal health."
I guess that counts as private. But the "totally" is overstated...doh!
h.
Patriotism is a virtue of the vicious
I don't think either governments had any seriuos goals for that. I think it was more political then anything. they would still rather see their own individual space program do better then the joint one. besides the U.S.'s and the Russian's sapce programs are sooo different i don't think it was a bad thing for a first try.
why don't we do it in the public non government sector. Let everybody who wants a piece of the pie get one. we could have a place where everbody was equal and we could commune together so we can communicate more with in the community. we could call our new social structure happy happy fake land that would never work, btu is fun in theory!