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Matrix Gets Egyptian Ban For Explicit Religion
pajor writes "BBC News is reporting that that The Matrix Reloaded has been banned in Egypt. The country's censorship board cited violence which might 'harm social peace', but also said the 'religious themes' of the film's storyline, about the search for the creator and control of the human race, may cause 'crises'. A statement said: 'Despite the high technology and fabulous effects of the movie, it explicitly handles the issue of existence and creation, which are related to the three divine religions, which we all respect and believe in.'"
the scene with the Architect, then. Obviously he understands well enough to ban the thing... :)
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from a rigged demo
--Andy Finkel (J. Klass?)
Are they actually saying that someone inducing thought into their culture from the west might cause an uproar?
*Gasp*
That questioning the truth is a bad thing?
"Not my manner of thinking but the manner of thinking of others has been the source of my unhappiness." - M
I think now how well Bruce Almighty will fare in Egypt just became one of the most curious questions I have about the movie industry.
Or, heck, Dogma... (though they might like that one b/c they think it's making fun of the catholics)
My life in the land of the rising sun.
"..which are related to the three divine religions, which we all respect and believe in.." There is only one religion... and it's prophet is called Morpheus, it's Messiah Neo.
Alan Perlis once said: "A language that doesn't affect the way you think about programming, is not worth knowing"
whoah.
I'm thinking... why they didn't banned the first
Matrix movie? After all, is in that movie where Neo is featured as some kind of messiah, while in Reloaded is rationalized as just "a necessary anomaly" that can be explained scientifically...
Wait, maybe the fact that religion can be explained by rational ways is what these censors fear?
North America: Neo kicks the crap out of someone and then gives a passionate kiss to Trinity. R-rated for explicit sex.
Europe: Neo kicks the crap out of someone and then says: "Oh fuck! Zion again. It's such a shitty place". British Board Of Film Censors (in 1984 renamed to British Board Of Film Classifiication, conveniently keeping the old acronym) gives it "restricted" rating for continuing use of strong language.
Arabian States: Neo kicks the crap out of someone and then says: "Oh God! Zion again". Egyptian censors ban this film for explicit religious message
It seems that the only thing all cultures of the Earth can unanimously agree to is kicking the crap out of someone...
Umm....I realize the Islamic press has a tendency to describe everything from America as Zionist...but in this case...
You realize that the movie portrays the "last hope of humanity" as a city known as Zion, whose inhabitants are the result of a gradual migration and represent the forces of good, besieged by the forces of evil that surround them.
So yeah, I can see how it could be viewed as promoting Zionist beliefs.
While we have the freedom of speech here in the U.S., similar thinking regarding the fear of talking about religion is alive here. Religion these days is like sex was 100 years ago - nobody thinks it is appropriate to talk about, as if some sort of war or riot is going to break out of we talk about it. When will people understand that there can be both peace and difference of opinions and beliefs at the same time? If we think we have to neuter ourselves for the sake of getting along with others, then we have truly given up. We don't need to voluntarily self-impose such restrictions as Egypt is on our own talk and thoughts. I am glad that the Matrix 2 looks at some of these issues. (Though I am always a little worried when Hollywood does try to look at religious issues.) I think that part of the reason many people think the movie is so deep is that they had never thought about such things for themselves before.
There's no such rating as 'restricted', unless you meant R18.
:-)
:-)
Indeed
However both The Matrix and The Matrix Reloaded were passed 15.
And that's why there is no "motherfucker" in the scene where Trinity is supposed to say "Dodge this, motherfucker!"; contrary to the script, she just says "dodge this!"
And then again, shooting someone in the head is acceptable; you just cannot call him "motherfucker" while doing this. Am I the only person who considers it a little bit weird?
In my mind it was either:
a) Neo's many conflicting reactions on all forms of consciousness.ÂÂ
or
b) The Architect's list of every possible way Neo could react.
Feed me a stray cat.
Have you not noticed that everyone who sees The Matrix is a philosopher for a day?
They normally would laugh at the thought of reading Descartes, Plato, Baudrillard, Nietzsche, etc, but when they see the pop-culture, hollow corpse of the afore-mentioned writers works, they are automatically philosophers.
Currently, there are two possible results of pop culture:
1. Philospher for a day who has become interested in the basic philosophical questions raised by the Matrix
2. "Wow, that chick's tits were AWESOME , dude!"
Thanks to the Matrix, pop culture might be on a slow climb upward. Don't try to fuck it up and send us back to Captain Horndog's Big-Tits-Big-Guns-Even-Bigger-Tits Bonanza just because pop culture hasn't gone from zero to Philosophy Major in 3.6 seconds. When someone mentions the basic philosophical questions that are raised by the Matrix, maybe you should politely point them toward Descartes instead of mocking their enthusiasm for something better than Die Hard 460: Die Harder Than You've Ever Died Hard Before WITH A VENGEANCE.
Talk about an uninformed, self-righteous post!!!
:
Ever travelled to Egypt? Ever read articles about the country from multiple sources (yes, that means other than Fox News)? Ever tried to genuinely understand what's going on over there and how Egyptians think?
Egypt is NOT a theocracy. Egyptian law actually bans Islamist political parties. Because Egypt has a HUGE problem with radical Islamism. One that dwarfs 9/11. Islamist terrorism does not mean "once, 2 years ago" in Egypt. It means "every month or so".
Egypt is not a full democracy either; at least not in the modern, western sense. Yet, they have made continuing progress on that path, considering that just 30 years ago, they were in a state of chronic war against Israel. They are now one of the most stable, reliable country in this region.
You're so obscured by your binary (good/evil) way of thinking that you can't even read.
"Such religious issues, raised in previous times, caused crises." Violence also played a part in the decision, the committee said. "Screening the movie may cause troubles and harm social peace," according to the statement.
Remember, we're talking about a country that has a long history of war against Israel and is painfully trying to get over it. They are plagued by groups of armed Islamist terrorists. This movie portrays Zion as the last hope of Mankind, as a sanctuary where good is besieged by evil. They KNOW that the Matrix is going to be targetted by terrorists. Setting up a bomb in a movie theater is incredibly easy. I don't think either of your 2 statements are true. I would put my money on
#3: This movie is offensive to most of our population. Violent groups will use this opportunity to bring death and chaos. The benefits of airing the movie do not exceed the costs.
It would be nice to be sure of anything the way some people are of everything.
since the Architect explicitly told Neo, that because he was human, there were some things that the Architect said that Neo wouldn't understand. Therefore, anybody who claims to understand 100% of what the Architect said, cannot possibly be a human.
There is no sig.
... and obvious, that there is much to be learned by the Western/American {there is no difference any more} constituency of /., about the ways of the world.
... even 'spiritual inspiration for living' from this media rather than ... say ... other media such as the Koran or The Bible.
Honestly, I was shocked to see so many posts along the line of "Egypt sucks, what a lame country, how weak"...
Matrix is widely regarded as an allegorical story, pitched in modern technological terms, regarding the lost races of Zion and the Jewish struggle for freedom. If you don't know that Zion is not just a place in a ass-kick movie with 3D effects, then I suggest you put google to use and learn just *WHY* the name "Zion" has so much stigma associated with it, and why many firmly believe that the Zionist movement is a destructive one for the human race as a whole.
Egypt is a very, very, very religiously fervent land. In Egypt, religion is actually more important to the general populace than the ability to be sitting on your ass in a dark theatre like a vegetable, being placated by wonderous 'miracles' of technology, being delivered a sermon on modern living by the modern Western priesthood (Hollywood).
For many people in Egypt, religion is a way of life, not just something you buy a ticket for on the weekends.
Americans think that "The Matrix" is just entertainment, and to their culture, an integrated part of the entire experience of being "Free".
Actually, from an objective view, Hollywood *is* the American Religion in that many modern Americans formulate their personal views, moral conviction, and yes
There is little difference between the Matrix-nerd waxing philosophical about 'the meaning of a film called Matrix' and a devout Muslim who holds a firm belief in the wisdom of Allah.
Really, very little difference whatsoever - both are using cultural mechanisms to bring some bearing of significance to their lives.
If the Egyptian government, in deciding not to allow this film to play among its populace, is doing so in order to protect its culture from strife - and nobody knows better than the Egyptians how cultural memes can cause strife - then in so doing it is no different than the US Government, deciding that 'digital rights' should be enforced and rigorously protected in order to safeguard its economy.
Remember this:
Just because Egyptians do not worship your gods, does not make them worthy of ridicule.
; -- the corruption of government starts with its secrets. a truly free people keep no secrets. --
The capital of the survivors in the Matrix is called "Zion" - the name of the mythical Jewish homeland. Egypt has been at war with Israel not too long ago, and there is huge resentment towards Israel because of the occupation of Palestine.
It would be the same if there was a major movie released in America where the hero's name just happened to be 'Osama Bin Laden' (not that I'm drawing any significants comparison). Of course there would be uproar, and the movie would not be shown by most theatres regardless of it's artistic quality.
Having lived in a country that has no copyright laws (PNG) I've seen the proliferation of imported pirated VCDs and recently DVDs sold openly in every shop.
What will happen in a country like Egypt is that pirates (the real, organised crime gang type) will simply supply the demand which will be there, because the more affluent Egyptians will have read about how the Matrix: Reloaded is a kick arse movie and wish to see it.
Furthermore, those with internet connections (there will be plenty) will download the inevitable DivX release and share it with their friends, thus spreading it through yet another channel.
This is why censors are becoming irrelevant in our technological society. In Australia censors have recently banned "Ken Park" from even screening at a film festival! No matter that it aired at Cannes etc, we're apparently not mature enough to form our own opinion on the matter. The same goes for Egypt, in this case though it's based on religion instead of sex, but it always sees to be the trinity of Sex, Politics and Religion that people feel they must suppress for the good of the populace. So when "Ken Park" is released on the net, it too will be downloaded and watched, regardless of what some censor in an office says we should or shouldn't watch.
"The premise of censorship is that offensive content contaminates the hearts and minds of people. But you can only have censorship if someone can judge content without himself being contaminated. This contradicts the premise of censorship, which alleges that these contaminating powers exist inherently in the offensive material. On the other hand, if a censor can censor without being contaminated, that implies that offensive content does not automatically contaminate the mind or heart of a person. In that case, you would be admitting that censorship is unnecessary. That is the contradiction of censorship." - don't have the name of the quoter sorry.
Quizo
Visceral Psyche Films
That... or how the hell he stopped the squidies when he was OUT of the Matrix (or so we thought)
Your observation they are still inside the Matrix is correct, backed up by several other events in the movie. Some of them are really subtle and I cannot recall. One is not so subtle and quite memorable:
The spoon bender in the first movie insisted "there is no spoon". Why is there no spoon? Because they are in the Matrix. The spoon becomes a symbol at this point for what does not exist as a result of where they are. The boy gives Neo another spoon as he's leaving Zion, but he does not change his message. He simply gives him the spoon. The message is unchanged: "there is no spoon", ergo, you're still inside the Matrix.
I think most people will agree, given that and the Sentinal scene in the end where Neo loses consciousness, that people in Zion are still inside the Matrix. Neo, having mastered control over Matrix reality, is "beginning to believe" here as well. How he might have realized this, I do not have any theory on. This concept will be crutial later on because I think it will apply to Agent Smith as well.
What's really going to bake your noodle is why do the machines need to destroy Zion with a conventional attack? They literally allow Zion to be created, fight with it for a while, then eventually send a massive army to wipe it out. If the machines controlled the Matrix, why not just "delete" Zion?
The answer? I believe that both the machines AND humans are trapped inside of a Matrix. Both of them are enslaved!
Think about what the Oracle said to Neo when they were talking about how he could trust her. Neo asks, "why are you helping us?" She replies, "I'm interested in one thing Neo, the future. And I know, the only way to get there is together."
From this I conclude that while there are some humans that realize their reality is fake, there are some programs that realize the same thing. Somehow there needs to be a collaboration between the two if they are somehow to free themselves.
There's some support for this in the teaser trailer.
You see an army of Agent Smiths that appear to be standing in the surface desert, with hover craft surrounding them. If Smith is merely a Matrix construct, how can he exist in the "real world"?
There is a scene with Neo and Smith fighting where they hit each other and both fly back. Amidst this, a shot is inserted of Morpheus stating with much shock and disbelief: "he fights for us!?"
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... islamic fundamentalists a such a peace loving people, committed to the continuation of "social peace" and avoid "crisis" at all costs.
...which might have some relevance here if the government of Egypt was an islamist fundamentalist government, rather than a secular government which has for decades been in 'crisis', trying to cope with an ongoing islamist fundamentalist revolution which has killed many hundreds of people and nurtured several of the most hard-core 'afghan' commanders. There's been no 'social peace' in Egypt for a very long time, and past experience suggests that allowing the showing of a film which portrays a supposed 'promised land' called, of all things, Zion (not provocative at all, eh?).
'Their social problems' are obviously not the result of western movies. However, their social problems do mean that the showing of this film could cause the sort of unrest that gets cinemas bombed. Which is turn leads to people getting killed. That's killed as in dead, as in bereaved relatives in mourning, as in families without breadwinners, as in, well, if you've had to deal with the death of a loved one you know what I'm talking about. Not as in 'OK, so roll me up another Agent Smith and let's continue the groovy action sequence'.
The government of Egypt is, effectively, more than 20 years into a civil war against the fundamentalists, and that does make a difference in this sort of decision. If it was Saudi Arabia or Iran we were talking about (or Yemen, Sudan, Pakistan, plenty of others to choose from) then, yes, it would be ludicrous. But it isn't. Very sad, yes, but while I'm entirely free to sacrifice MY life for my beliefs in freedom of speech, expression and so forth, I have absolutely NO right to sacrifice someone else's life for anything at all.
TomV
In the living quarters area of Zion all of the area around the door frames are painted blood red. This struck me as an obvious reference to the passover. The residents of Zion are waiting to be delivered from the machines and have marked their doors. So if residents of Zion == Jews escaping Eqypt, then the machines == Egyptians.
One can see how this film got banned in Egypt if the force that keeps nearly all of humanity enslaved is equated with their country. Not the most mature attitude, but you can see how this would happen.
Interestingly, in the Animatrix, there are scenes straight out of the Ten Commandments in which the machines are depicted as the Jewish slaves, building pyramids, and the humans as the Egyptian slave drivers. I wonder if the Animatrix is banned as well.
Lasers Controlled Games!
First, you can never please everyone. We would have no books, no movies, in fact we would have nothing if we always caved in and self-censored.
Second, what should be so insensitive about Zion (Sinai)? That's where - traditionally - the Jewish code of law was given and note that both Christianity and Islam relate to it. Why not show a movie which treats it creatively, yet with some respect? There's nothing wrong in playing with items from our shared heritage if it's done with sane mind and has some artistic quality.
That's a serious accusation but you bring no evidence. First, the present government of Israel has been democratically elected, just like every government in Israel to-date. Can you say that about Egypt which you call "a better society than much of the Middle East"?
Second, being democratically elected the government represents the majority of its electorate. Your excuse that you don't mean, "please, Jews or the bulk of the Israeli people" is lame.
You miss the point. It is Mr. Rushdie who has been attacked, his life turned upside down because otherwise Iran's Islamic rulers would have had him long killed by now!
Your advise? He shouldn't have written a "difficult" book. That's the wrong advise. You must never give in to criminals and those who pervert human values. Instead, you hunt them down (if possible) and punish according to their crimes. This is the major tenet of our Western civilization as we know it - we define what our rights are and defend them. If we don't, soon we won't have any left.
US fundamentalists?? Do they decide what we get to see on the TV? Do they censor the newspapers? If an Egyptian made a movie as you describe, I think pretty much noone in the US would give a damn. Try to come up with a better analogy.
You mention Taliban. Hm, you are right we don't want them in Egypt. Does it help then to not screen Matrix and instead show the Protocols of Zion, made up by Russian Secret Police to blame an economic misery on the Jews? Does it help to smuggle TNT belts to Gaza so that they can be used to blow up busses with people like you and me in them? Does it help to issue building permits for mosques but not for churches even though Egypt sports a sizable Coptic Christian minority? Look up on the net how many of the 9/11 terrorists were Egyptians, how many of the virulently anti-human Islamic preachers active in mosques in the UK and US studied their craft at the state-controlled Egyptian University of Cairo.
Before "letting a rational though out", please get the facts straight first. Thank you.
I'm surprised nobody picked up on the kid in the early part of the movie who handed Neo the spoon.
Neo1 through Neo5 decided the Architect was lying, and gambled that "the source" or whatever would set 'em free. (Instead, it was just a trap that "reloaded" the Matrix, like Ghosting a drive. OK, bug caught. Reinstall.)
Neo6 figured the Architect might not be lying. So screw it, pop through the second door and see what happens. Maybe the Architect's worried that meta-Matrix will crash (which would suck for him and for humanity, if that's where the AIs actually "live"). Or maybe not. We (the viewers) and Neo6 don't have enough information to say.
But sure enough, when Neo6 goes back into what he thought was the "real world", "there is [still] no spoon". Zion, the seekers, everything he thought was real was just a higher-level matrix, destroyed and reloaded five times before. It's just another level of control.
So Movie III is gonna be Neo6, who jumped into the meta-Matrix and just discovered that There Is No Spoon, versus (or working with!) the "free" version of Agent Smith, who somehow figured out a different way to jump from the Matrix into the meta-Matrix.
Wonder how Free Agent Smith (he's half-AI, half-newsreader? :) will react when he finds out that what he's been programmed to believe is the "real world of the machines", and that he thought he was defending when he got Zion whacked, is also just a higher-level Matrix.
> It raises the question that it's not impossible that we ourselves are in some kind of simulation, or are indeed simulated. There would be no way to tell, which perhaps is the problem that the Egyptian censors have with the film.
"It raises the question", heck, for the offended religion in question, you coulda stopped there. :)
> If nothing really is real, then nothing really matters and you're left with the philosophy of the marquis-de-sade. Not something any civilised society really wants.
Not quite. If nothing really is real, then nothing "really" matters and you're left with having to (as the Oracle put it) "make up your own damn mind" on how to live. IMO that's something many societies could benefit from, and something most religious societies are extremely threatened by.
(And IMNSHO, that's a feature, not a bug :)
Probably too late for this to get noticed (7 hours is an eternity in slashdot time), but here goes: Regardless of what the official reason for the ban is (religion, etc.), the real reason is the constant and sympathetic reference to 'Zion' in the movie. In the real world, 'Zion' refers either to the "Jewish people" or "the Jewish homeland that is symbolic of Judaism or of Jewish national aspiration" [Merriam-Webster] (i.e., Israel in modern times). The (very real, 100+ year old) ideology of 'Zionism' didn't get that name for nothing. So this has little to do with pissing off fundamentalists or offending religious sensibilities, and a lot to do with pissing off the general population of Egypt, who are already susceptible to conspiracy theories of Jews controlling Hollywood (and the White House). As evidence of my explanation, I'd like to point out that Speilberg's excellent _Schindler's List_ was also banned in Egypt, ostensibly on the grounds that 'editing out the sex scenes would endanger the artistic integrity of the movie', or some such bull, when of course the real reason was the sympathetic portrayal of Jews. Finally, I'd like to point out that the movie will probably be widely available in VCD/DivX format, and will be watched by many on computer screens in Egypt. The government doesn't really bother enforcing censorship at that level, because all they want is to have *their* hands clean of officially permitting the showing of a 'pro-Israel' movie.
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