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Weta Prepares to Render LOTR: ROTK

Dee Arsmith writes "Peter Jackson's special-effects company Weta Digital has just taken delivery of 588 IBM blade servers, each with two 2.8 gigahertz Intel Xeon processors. Seven racks of IBM blade servers have been added to Weta's existing 15-rack server cluster to make up the largest Intel-based high- performance computer site in the world with more than 2000 linked processors. The cluster will be used to render the frames drawn by the animators to complete the final installment of The Lord of the Rings trilogy, The Return of the King."

121 of 460 comments (clear)

  1. *drool* by Z0mb1eman · · Score: 5, Funny

    Is this... could this... could this be the mythical Beowulf Cluster talked of in Slashdot posts of yore? Could such a beast truly exist?

    --
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    1. Re:*drool* by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      Actually, Beowulf was not a beast.

    2. Re:*drool* by Z0mb1eman · · Score: 4, Funny

      No, but there's no such thing as a Grendel cluster...

      Well, okay, a quick web search does return hits for Grendel clusters...

      There IS such a thing as reading too much into a joke. *L*

      --
      ClutterMe.com - easiest site creation on the Net. Just click and type.
    3. Re:*drool* by Telecommando · · Score: 5, Funny

      My Precious... My PRECIOUS!

      Nasty Slashdottesss steal my precious!

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    4. Re:*drool* by tolldog · · Score: 3, Informative

      but its not a Beowulf cluster...

      Rendering and beowulf do not play nice together... its a distributed system... with queueing... much more like Sun's Grid, I am sure.

      -Tim

      --
      -I just work here... how am I supposed to know?
    5. Re:*drool* by Sabalon · · Score: 5, Funny

      you're right - but could you imagine a beowulf cluster of these :)

    6. Re:*drool* by evilviper · · Score: 4, Funny
      much more like Sun's Grid, I am sure.

      In a few years, and after extensive medical testing, "Sun's Grid" will be renamed to "Sun's HIV".
      --
      Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
    7. Re:*drool* by FuzzyBad-Mofo · · Score: 2, Funny

      4,000,000 mhz of processing power!!!!

      Gee, I hope the RIAA doesn't catch wind of this.

    8. Re:*drool* by Trevin · · Score: 2, Funny
      Real programming languages don't use path separators as an escape character.

      Really? That would eliminate C/C++, lisp, Java, FORTRAN, perl, awk, sh, TeX, Scheme, Prolog, Python, .... What's left? BASIC?? Hah!

  2. Here's hoping they don't pull a Titanic! by TiMac · · Score: 4, Interesting
    I hope they don't get through the whole rendering process and discover that something is wrong....like they did in Titanic (James Cameron was pissed that one of the propellers on the ship was spinning when the ship was sinking).

    Could delay release maybe. Get it right WETA! :)

    --

    1. Re:Here's hoping they don't pull a Titanic! by littlerubberfeet · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Well, in response to rendering mistakes...you pay for both processor time, usually in MHz/minute if I remember correctly, and a certain amount of huma proofing time.

      On top of that, any decent director watches the film in wireframe or a rough-render to make sure it is correct.

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    2. Re:Here's hoping they don't pull a Titanic! by ScottGant · · Score: 5, Funny

      If you mean not making a movie that basically boring with an egomainiac director then yes, I hope they don't pull a Titanic.

      I mean, why did Cameron have to take an actual sub down to the real ship? Would have been cheaper I'm sure to use minatures. But ok, he wanted to do that. Fair enough.

      But using the same exact rug company that made the rugs of the Titanic? Having the Blue Star logo on the under side of the dinner plates? Why waste money on stuff you'll never see on screen?

      They keep saying it was the most expensive movie to make of all time, but it's all on the screen. That's hogwash. Cameron was out of control. But since all he has around him are "yes men", no one's going to reign him in.

      But it paid off in the end, which is really the true story. How an over-blown expensive movie made by an insane director with a boring storyline made so much money.

      Here's the synopsis of Titanic:

      "Oh, it's so big! It's so elegant! Hi I'm Jack. Hi. Let me draw your picture. Run down to the bottom of the ship, get sweaty in the car, run back to the top of the ship. Hit an iceberg. Run back down to bottom of ship. Get seperated. Run back to the top of the ship. Oh no, forgot the big diamond thingy! Run back down to the bottom. Oh, the water's cold. Hang on! Get in the boat! No, I don't want to leave you. Hang on! Oh, the water's cold. Hang on! I'll never let got. She lets go. Oh, help me, a ship! OH, I'm old now. Let's throw away the diamond thingy and take away my grand-daughters inheritance in one fell swoop. Then end."

      --

      "Music is everybody's possession. It's only publishers who think that people own it." - John Lennon.
    3. Re:Here's hoping they don't pull a Titanic! by ScottGant · · Score: 2

      I pointed that out. That regardless of what went into it. How boring it was, how much wasted money was on it...it still grossed so much money.

      In my original post I said:

      "But it paid off in the end, which is really the true story. How an over-blown expensive movie made by an insane director with a boring storyline made so much money."

      They beat the odds. Because usually when they spend so much on a movie it usually flops. Like Cleopatra or Heavens Gate.

      So bully for them! It's still a totally overrated movie.

      --

      "Music is everybody's possession. It's only publishers who think that people own it." - John Lennon.
    4. Re:Here's hoping they don't pull a Titanic! by Overly+Critical+Guy · · Score: 4, Interesting

      You've sure picked an odd way to criticize Titanic, considering:

      * They hand-made the weapons and armor for Lord of the Rings, down to invidual armor links.
      * The set directors were told to treat everything historically, so you get everything from accurate Dwarvish runes everywhere that you'll never see to miniature dishes in Bilbo's kitchen to specially made "Elvish" boots with leaf designs that nobody will ever see.
      * In the soundtrack, choirs are singing in Elvish, Dwarvish, and even Entish.
      * ...and much, much more. These are just the ones off the top of my head. I watched just the costume segment alone on the extended DVD and marvelled at all the "authentic" throwaway stuff that nobody will ever, ever see in the movie.

      Sometimes, it's all about authenticity. Maybe you won't see it on screen, but you'll feel it through the actors, who feel it being on the set.

      --
      "Sufferin' succotash."
    5. Re:Here's hoping they don't pull a Titanic! by doi · · Score: 4, Funny

      I just found a story about that, and it seems Weta DID accidentally insert a shot of the Titanic, spinning propellors and all, with Gollum falling into them and being mangled. But, Peter Jackson said it wasn't true to the book, so they did cut it out. I guess he did enough of those shots in Braindead. :)

      --
      A man's reach must exceed his grasp, or what's an erection for?
    6. Re:Here's hoping they don't pull a Titanic! by karit · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Jackson said that he wanted to be able to zoom in a extra have them look just as good as main character.

      --
      http://blog.karit.geek.nz/
    7. Re:Here's hoping they don't pull a Titanic! by tolldog · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Directors shouldn't watch most of the cuts... they have people between them and the artists for that reason. If a director spent all their time in dailies watching... they would not have time to do all that they need to do.

      Fresh eyes are always good for proofing... its amazing what somebody new picks up the first 2 times through a shot.

      -Tim

      --
      -I just work here... how am I supposed to know?
    8. Re:Here's hoping they don't pull a Titanic! by ScottGant · · Score: 4, Insightful

      This is all true. I agree.

      But you also have to see that they filmed 3 movies for 2/3 of what Titanic cost to make.

      But you're right, they paid a lot of attention to get things right. But they had a reason that Cameron didn't.

      LOTR has a HUGE fanbase. The fans would be all OVER this director and crew if something wasn't right. Some things are changed as it is and they got a lot of flak from it. The Titanic, while popular, didn't have legeons of fans nitpicking over every detail to see if it was right or not. Not on the scale of LOTR.

      But I agree with you about the feel of the actors that feel the authenticity on the set.

      I guess I just didn't "get" Titanic. But that's ok, it's only my opinion...which is harmless.

      --

      "Music is everybody's possession. It's only publishers who think that people own it." - John Lennon.
    9. Re:Here's hoping they don't pull a Titanic! by littlerubberfeet · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Speaking of funding...The relativly small 100 million they spent on something like K19 would yeild my mom over 500 hour-long documentries. She works at national geographic. Infomercials have higher budgets then her films.

      As many film school thesis projects have demonstrated, some brilliant, stunning things can be done with less then 50000 dollars

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      Sig (appended to the end of comments you post, 120 chars)
    10. Re:Here's hoping they don't pull a Titanic! by Jucius+Maximus · · Score: 2, Insightful
      "...and much, much more. These are just the ones off the top of my head. I watched just the costume segment alone on the extended DVD and marvelled at all the "authentic" throwaway stuff that nobody will ever, ever see in the movie."

      Those things might not be seen in the movie but they're still important and worth big money because of exhibits. I remember going to the Lord of the Rings exhibit in Toronto before TTT came out and getting to scrutinze up close the witch-king's gauntlets, the Sting dagger, Eowyn's dress, the elven jewellry and weapons, and practically every costume, armour, weapon, prop, etc. And there were huge line-ups paying something like $12 per person to see all this.

      Sure, you don't see it in the movie but it pays back big-time for exhibits.

    11. Re:Here's hoping they don't pull a Titanic! by Trogre · · Score: 5, Funny

      You mean like LOTR:FOTR:

      F"rodo's been stabbed! He's going to die!
      No... wait, he'll be fine.
      Frodo's been skewered with a spear! He's going to die!
      No... wait, he's fine.
      Gandalf fell down a big pit! He died!"

      Or LOTR: TTT

      "No... wait, Gandalf's fine. And white.
      Aragorn fell off a cliff! He died!
      No... no wait, he's fine."

      --
      "Nine times out of ten, starting a fire is not the best way to solve the problem." - my wife
    12. Re:Here's hoping they don't pull a Titanic! by jared_hanson · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Even though I am sure to not find many supporters of my opinion here on Slashdot, I actually respect Cameron more for making efforts to respect the original and grandeur scale of the Titanic. It's nice to see people with such a passion and who will not compromise their vision for anything.

      --
      -- Fighting mediocrity one bad post at a time.
    13. Re:Here's hoping they don't pull a Titanic! by Sabalon · · Score: 2, Informative

      nah...it wasn't an imax of the movie. It was an imax about the titanic itself.

      http://us.imdb.com/Title?0297144

    14. Re:Here's hoping they don't pull a Titanic! by raga · · Score: 2, Funny

      But using the same exact rug company that made the rugs of the Titanic? Having the Blue Star logo on the under side of the dinner plates? Why waste money on stuff you'll never see on screen?

      In a few years on eBay, said plates will fetch 100x their production cost.

      cheers- raga

    15. Re:Here's hoping they don't pull a Titanic! by Edgewize · · Score: 2, Informative

      The plastic mail was only for the extras and for battle shots. Still shots on primary characters often used real chain mail. They found some outfit that was selling whole sheets of thin chain link, and made armor out of it. Don't ask me how I know this.

    16. Re:Here's hoping they don't pull a Titanic! by noewun · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Dude, directors watch dailies at the end of every day. Jackson spent three to four hours watching dailies at the end of every shooting day, as LOTR had seven units filming. The director is the only person with the complete film in his or her head. Implying that s/he wouldn't be involved with the process in the most intimate way is ludicrous.

      --
      I am a believer of momentum and curves.
    17. Re:Here's hoping they don't pull a Titanic! by Negatyfus · · Score: 2, Funny

      How do you know this?

    18. Re:Here's hoping they don't pull a Titanic! by crawling_chaos · · Score: 2, Insightful
      LOTR has a HUGE fanbase.

      True, but so does Titanic (the ship, not the movie). Perhaps you've never heard of the Titanic Historical Society, but it's been around since the Sixties. Titanic enthusiasts are every bit as rabid as LOTR ones. I know, I fit into both camps. I went to see the movie to see the re-creation of the ship. I didn't give a flying you-know-what about the story.

      At any rate, I understand the "not getting it" part. I have trouble explaining to people that neither X-Files nor Buffy interested me at all. Such is life, I suppose.

      --
      You can only drink 30 or 40 glasses of beer a day, no matter how rich you are.
      -- Colonel Adolphus Busch
  3. The One Rack by FunWithHeadlines · · Score: 5, Funny
    One rack to rule them all,
    One rack to cluster 'em,
    One rack to render them all,
    and in the darkness draw them.

    -------

  4. Imagine a... by sn00ker · · Score: 5, Interesting
    movie industry based around the following ideal:
    Unlike most post-production houses which bid for work and pay for equipment out of that price, New Line Cinema bankrolls the technology Weta Digital needs to complete its task.
    CGI would probably have progressed even further than the current state-of-the-art. New Line's management obviously need to be given a +5 Insightful mod :P

    --
    "God, root, what is difference?" - Pitr, userfriendly
    1. Re:Imagine a... by brucmack · · Score: 2

      Why do you think so? By funding a specific special effects house themself, they are not allowing any competition to take place.

      Instead, why not imagine a movie industry where there are 4 or 5 really good special effects companies, none attached to any specific film companies. The competition between these could really spark major innovations, as they each want a crack at the big movies. A film could even give a portion to each company and see how they do with it and base their decision on that.

      Yes, it is nice to see many more options these days than in the past, and I in no way intend to slight Weta at all. This is something that should have happened 10 years ago, methinks :)

  5. Is that really enough? by Tigris666 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Sure it sounds like a lot of processing power, but have a serious think about how much rendering is involved here. The article says at least 1200 special effects shots, I'd say way more than that. The animators probably want to draw each scene more than once.

    So although it seems like a lot of power, I'd still be wanting more. But then who wouldn't? :)

    --
    Kids, you tried your best and you failed miserably. The lesson is, never try. -- Homer J. Simpson
    1. Re:Is that really enough? by malducin · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Shot here refers to standard movie terminology, that is what is between 2 edit cuts. I mean shots of just the New Zealnd scenery, like some of Rohan, require no VFX. Sure one VFX shot may go through different iterations but in the end it's still one shot.

      And yes 1200 is very high. I usually consider anything above 400 VFX shots to be high. The Perfect Storm had less than 400 and Pearl Harbor and Ai had about 200 and they still feel VFX heavy. Asylum VFX, a small but very good boutique shop can only handle about 200 shots per project on average though they grew and upgraded so they could handle 400 for Master and Commander. When the makers even doubled that it was a bit too much for them.

    2. Re:Is that really enough? by The_dev0 · · Score: 2, Informative
      I mean shots of just the New Zealnd scenery, like some of Rohan, require no VFX.

      I seem to remember PJ being interviewed during the lead-up to FOTR, in which he explained that pretty much every shot in the movies would be altered anyway to ensure that the colour saturation is even throughout the three movies, mostly because the colours of the backgrounds had been altered to make Middle Earth feel different to our world by making the colours a fair bit darker and richer than those you can see around you. I wouldn't be suprised if no scene remained untouched by the colour adjustments. Just like how they used technicolor to add colour to old movies, but on steroids.

      --
      Never fight naked, unless you're in prison...
    3. Re:Is that really enough? by The_dev0 · · Score: 2, Funny

      That's just a cover story. PJ really wants to be able to play Simcity 4 at a decent speed.

      --
      Never fight naked, unless you're in prison...
    4. Re:Is that really enough? by malducin · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Yes but I don't consider the digital color timing part of the VFX. Before the digital era and even before Star Wars, there were/are jobs called colorists which would time (that is color correct) the whole film. They didn't have anything to do with VFX, if anything they have to work with the finished VFX shots to match them to the surrounding shots. Now grading is becoming more digital and it has some connection with VFX as it's sort of related to compositing since you have to match elements.

      The LOTR trilogy is using Colossus which was made by 5D which went out of business and Colorfront got a hold of it and I belive Discreet acquierd them and the new product will be called lustre. You can read a bit about it here:

      5D Colossus Grades "The Lord Of The Rings" Trilogy
      Colorfront to Develop 5D Colossus

      Interestingly I thought sometime the color correction was to extreme and too contrasting. There is a shot at the end of TTT with the 3 main characters after being victorious in Helm's Deep, and the shot of Gandalf (which supposdely has the sun right behind him) is really contrasting to the shots of Aragorn and Legolas in terms of saturation and flestones in particular and looks a bit softer. There are several shots like that in both films which made me groan a bit ut are not a real big deal. It kinda reminded me of the extreme color saturation and washout in some shot of Geonosis in Ep. 2. I still think O Brother Where Art Thou is the most consistent in terms of extensive digital grading, but that's just me.

  6. mmm... computing power by carambola5 · · Score: 4, Funny
    "New Line understands Peter's vision and understands it is bound by technology, so it makes sure technology is not a bottleneck," Houston said. "In the big scheme, a few million dollars for a couple of thousand processors will pay dividends."


    Damn. Why can't New Line underwrite my company? Better yet, why can't they underwrite me? I'm sure I could put a couple thousand processors to good use.

    And what exactly would I use them for? Why, I'd install Gentoo on them, of course. With those suckers, it'll only take hours rather than days to install KDE!
    --
    IWARS.
    People, in general, disappoint me. Politicians even more so.
  7. Oh yeah? by DarthVeda · · Score: 5, Funny

    It may be able to render Return of the King but I doubt it will be able to deliver 10 fps for DooM 3. Time to upgrade some more, weta!

  8. wow.... by Falconpro10k · · Score: 4, Funny

    I think after the movie they should use this type of processing power for something to help the benefit of society (e.g figure out cancer cures etc..) or to promote open source.. it would sure help.. Distrubted computing DOES work.

    1. Re:wow.... by GigsVT · · Score: 2, Funny

      or to promote open source..

      What is it going to do, send out massive amounts of spam?

      --
      I've had enough abrasive sigs. Kittens are cute and fuzzy.
    2. Re:wow.... by Dylan+Zimmerman · · Score: 2, Interesting

      They already DO promote open source. They GPLed the plugin that they used to go from Maya to RenderMan. Pretty cool of them, isn't it?

      The plugin is here:
      http://www.nomadicmonkey.com/tools.html

  9. Really the top? by cly · · Score: 5, Informative

    If you look at top500.org, you see that the current top Intel-based cluster is #5, the one with 2304 procs in LLNL.

    The article says their cluster has 'more than 2000 processors'. So presumably they mean 'more than 2304'?

    1. Re:Really the top? by glrotate · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The LLNL cluster is of 2.4 Xeons, these are 2.8's. Combine that with the 2000+ number and it very well may be the top.

    2. Re:Really the top? by rangek · · Score: 3, Insightful

      But how are they connected? 100/1000 Mbps Ethernet? Weta's cluster might be bigger, but without high speed interconnects (e.g., Myrinet) is is just a pile of CPU's, not a supercomputer.

    3. Re:Really the top? by Copid · · Score: 4, Informative
      Indeed. The LLNL clusters use Quadrics interconnects. They're phenomenally fast, and they're what really separate loose clusters and useful general purpose supercomputers. However, Weta doesn't need too much cross talk between the nodes (like a physicist doing fluid dynamics calculations might). Rendering separate frames is basically a perfectly parallel operation. Send some geometry data and a single machine can render the frame without needing to send anything to any other nodes. Big advantage.

      There are a lot of big machines out there that are loosely connected like this one is. I suspect that's why they don't end up listed on the Top 500 site. They're not nearly as useful for the types of calculations done by most of the scientific computing sites out there as a really expensive cluster with a bitchin' interconnect.

      --
      An interesting anagram of "BANACH TARSKI" is "BANACH TARSKI BANACH TARSKI"
  10. Play Mount Doom by Nom+du+Keyboard · · Score: 5, Funny

    Can I play Mount Doom on it afterwards? Please, pretty please?

    --
    "It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
  11. floppy drives? by RV.eq.VFG · · Score: 5, Funny

    .. power units, fans, floppy drives, switches ... floppy drives? They are living in a dream world with pixes, leprechauns and eskimos

  12. Re:Umm, what happened to the ones he had? by MisterFancypants · · Score: 3, Interesting

    There's no free PR/hype to be generated by saying 'ok we're gonna use the same computers we used before'.

  13. Re:How fast is fast? by tolldog · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Adding more machines makes a big difference... it means that you get to do more takes on a shot.

    Adding more horsepower, assuming the file I/O is fast and the machine doesn't swap... its close to being linear.

    So a 20% improvement means that you get done 20% faster... or, more likely in the biz, thats 20% more wish-fixes that get done... or... even more likely... that means more complex shots.

    -Tim

    --
    -I just work here... how am I supposed to know?
  14. Question by boatboy · · Score: 5, Interesting

    OK /. How far away is a system like this from real-time photorealistic rendering? I've always wondered why somebody didn't throw enough hardware together to render film-quality CG at 30 frames/sec. What are the technical limitations preventing this?

    1. Re:Question by tolldog · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Because for what they are doing, it takes a long long time to render... i think industry standard is still over an hour a frame.

      And it has stayed pretty linear as machines get faster... because quality is always improving as well. They will always push the specs of the systems...

      No real point in doing it real time... it still needs to be animated. And most of the animation has complex solvers on it to do all the itsy details that takes up time...

      -Tim

      --
      -I just work here... how am I supposed to know?
    2. Re:Question by Moryath · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Not sure -- but probably not.

      It's more likely that they want to do more COMPLEX shots in the same amount of time it used to take to do a simpler version of the same shot.

      Think about it this way -- it took the same amount of time to create Toy Story as it did to create Monsters, Inc. (roughly).

      But, Toy Story doesn't spend a whole lot of time dealing with difficult to render stuff like fur. Sully walks into the scene on the other hand, watch the rendering have to keep pace with all that hair.

      The trick isn't really to get it to photorealistic real-time, anyhow, for what Hollywood needs. The trick is to balance the following things:

      1. Renderable in a decent time frame (e.g. a couple hours to render a 10-minute or so scene). The main point here is to get it rendering quick enough that (a) you can fix bugs and (b) you can fix bugs in time to meet the deadlines.

      2. Ramp the quality as high as it can go.

      In all honesty, Hollywood won't give us realtime photorealistic rendering. That's being left to the gaming computer companies so we have to wait another 5-10 years.

      Why? Hollywood just doesn't need it. They can render the scene or tape it from live actors, either way they have to go in and someone has to play editor to fit all the pieces together anyways.

    3. Re:Question by zokrath · · Score: 5, Informative

      Bah, last post was apparently in HTML format and managed to make a single unreadable block of text. That will teach me not to preview...Anyway, reposted in plain text:

      A long, long ways.

      Computer games can run at 60+ frames per second because they are barely doing any work when compared to top of the line rendering engines.

      Raytracing, dozens of texture passes, multiple realistic lightsources; and these are just for a two dimensional surface. Making realistic looking skin requires multiple translucent layers to simulate the complicated appearance of skin.

      Also, there is the size factor. Video games generally run at 1024x768 to 1600x1200. Movie quality shots are rendered at many times that resolution, which greatly increases the number of pixels that have to be rendered. Gollum may only be 800 pixels tall on your monitor, but he's probably rendered at least ten times as large; we'll say 10,000x 10,000 for calcualtion simplification.

      That's 10E7 pixels, so to display it at 24 frames per second you would need to be pushing 24E8 pixels a second. 24,000,000,000.

      Even if every pixel only took a single cycle (which it might, with the right hardware pipeline in the future), you would need 240 terahertz of power (plus overhead) to display it in real time, along with enough RAM to hold the model and texture data for everything that's going to be onscreen within the next minute or so.

      Considering that they have around 2000 x 2.0 X 2 = 8 terahertz available to them, and it still takes ages to render each frame of the complicated battle scenes, I'd say we are going to hit the limit of Moore's law before we could reasonably get hte power to render cinematic scenes in real time. Perhaps with quantum processing we will be able to within the next 20 years or so.

    4. Re:Question by Iscariot_ · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I think a good answer would be to first point out that non-real-time rendering is not yet optimal. Before something goes real-time (for making movies) we'd have to be able to generate 100% photo-realistic imagry. Only then can/should we worry about making that process real-time.

      I'd imagine we're some years, or decades, away from that.

      Why do something in real-time, giving you so-so quality, when the audience expects top of the line cgi that pushes computers to their limits even though the rendering time is still staggering.

    5. Re:Question by levork · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I don't question your other points, but I do question the size factor.

      > Movie quality shots are rendered at many times
      > that resolution, which greatly increases the
      > number of pixels that have to be rendered.

      This isn't true for any movie I'm familiar with. In fact, I'd be highly surprised if LOTR was rendered at anything much higher than 2k resolution.

      There's usually not much point to higher resolution when rendering CG for film, because jitter, grain, dust, and all the other artifacts of analog film obscure any gains you might get by doing so. Even in digital projection, a pixel at 2k by 2k res projects to something like a single inch on a typical movie screen. This might sound big, but from where you're sitting, it really isn't.

    6. Re:Question by donglekey · · Score: 5, Informative

      Also, there is the size factor. Video games generally run at 1024x768 to 1600x1200. Movie quality shots are rendered at many times that resolution, which greatly increases the number of pixels that have to be rendered. Gollum may only be 800 pixels tall on your monitor, but he's probably rendered at least ten times as large; we'll say 10,000x 10,000 for calcualtion simplification.

      This is actually not true. Film resolution is around 2048x1556 and everything is rendered the size that it is needed. For the most part, the difference in rendering speed is because hardware is very fast and very efficient, and takes lots of shortcuts. There aren't many textures, they aren't very high resolution, there isn't any raytracing, there are very few lights, no global illumination, no hair rendering, no volumetric rendering, not nearly as many polygons, no particles or cloth simulations, very few deformations, and lighting calculation is done on vertexes and then interpolated instead of on every pixel (this will change with Doom 3 and Half Life 2 which is the real reason they look so much better). Renderman also subdivides everything down to one polygon per pixel to get perfectly smooth sufaces and good displacement. There is also the issue of motion blur, depth of field, and rendering of composites, which also takes a very long time. Anti-aliasing in every step is crucial for any kind of non-realtime CG, but it not as important for games, and that by itself makes a huge huge difference.

    7. Re:Question by sakusha · · Score: 2, Informative

      You are wrong. Standard film rez is 4096x3072, usually rendered at least 4x for oversampling antialiasing. The original remarks were correct.

    8. Re:Question by donglekey · · Score: 3, Interesting

      It really depends on what resolution the film scan is done at, and the aspect ratio of the movie. 4k res scans of 35mm are less frequent than 2k scans because they are expensive and not always neccesary. A 3D render should never have to render something above the final resolution it will be displayed as.

    9. Re:Question by Greenrider · · Score: 2, Interesting
      HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! woooo. That's a good one. Try more like ~1 a frame. And some of the even more complex scenes can take a few hours to a frame.
      an hour a frame? really?

      let's do the math:
      1 frame = 1 hour
      30 fps = 30 hours to render 1 second of film
      2 hour movie = 60 * 120 = 7200 seconds
      7200 * 30 hours = 216,000 hours of render time
      that's 9000 days, or 25 years to render an entire movie.

      it obviously couldn't take an hour of NET render time per frame. maybe it takes an hour of total computation time, but that's obviously not what we're interested in here, and not what the original poster was talking about.
  15. What does this "massive" cluster run? by Mostly+a+lurker · · Score: 4, Informative
    Regelous created Massive, the special-effects program behind the colossal battles in The Lord of the Rings film trilogy.
    See for instance http://www.wired.com/news/digiwood/0,1412,56778,00 .html

    Q: What platforms does Massive run on? A: Massive runs under Linux and Irix.
    Many interesting details at http://www.massivesoftware.com/

  16. A Beowulf cluster of... wait wait !!! by frs_rbl · · Score: 5, Funny

    ... one of Weta's biggest problems was the lack of space, which prompted the move to blade servers - slim units containing processors and memory which slide into a separate chassis containing power units, fans, floppy drives, switches and connections to the other servers.

    Why not use a cluster of Cappuccinos then? They fit neatly into the previous description, don't they?

    See...

    1- Cluster of Cappuccinos
    2- ?????
    3- Time trip to Soviet Russia (where Cappuccinos cluster you)
    4- PROFIT!!!

    Now seriously, imagine a Beowulf cluster of these!!!

    I think I'll go to sleep.

    --
    This is not my opinion. Actually, it's not even an opinion. And I'm nowhere to be seen near it
  17. Re:How fast is fast? by rodgerd · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The limit Weta are working against is time. They have a deadline. The faster their render farm, the less likely a problem - realising a scene is wrong, servers crashing, hardware failing - is to cause them to slip.

    Likewise, I imagine Weta's biggest expense is staff & contractors. If they have to work nights and weekends to get work done because they're waiting on hardware, that's a big cost, probably a lot bigger than the cost of adding servers to the farm.

    Finally, there's the possibility of doing more complex and detailed rendering and compositing with a bigger farm, especially for the extended editions of the DVDs - for example, they're doing a huge amount extra for the Two Towers DVD, since they're adding lots more to the Ents.

  18. Re:How fast is fast? by malducin · · Score: 2, Insightful

    It's not only the increase ni speed but actually having more processors. In the basic PRMan setup you send one frame to each CPU. So if before they had 1000 processors they could send, theoretically 1000 frames at the same time, though of course some would render faster than others. Now instead is they doubled their capacity they can now send 2000 frames concurrently (again theoretical).

    LOR: ROTK has even more VFX shots than the previous film so it does make sense increasing capacity. Things can be rendered overnight so they are ready for dailies next day. They might also use some of these also for compositing as WQeta Digital uses Shake which also has a batch renderer for Linux.

  19. Nerdy, thecnical details by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    Here are some nerdy technical details to (hopefully) satisfy the rest of us :-)

    RLX (formerly known as Rocket Logic) was the first company to introduce blade servers. Headquartered in Woodlands, just north of Houston and the old Compaq. I think they intially got a lot of smart engineers from Compaq, but they're probably laid off by now. They had the misfortune of starting their business amidst the tech slump. The other big companies (Dell, IBM, HP) have been quick to spoof RLX and steal some of its thunder. Guess it helps that you have services and other technology to sell to a customer. After all, buying things from one company can be simpler than having multiple suppliers with different contracts, etc.

    How unfortunate it is that the first-to-market is sometimes never the market leader.

  20. Re:A few million by dswensen · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Well, they "understand" that the last two movies made huge bank to the tune of more than three times what they cost to make. I don't think they'd have much "understanding of his vision" if they'd tanked.

    It all still comes down to the bottom line. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

  21. Pfft. by Braintrust · · Score: 5, Funny

    When I was a boy, we did our rendering calculations by hand. A pencil, lots of paper, and we liked it! These kids today and their fancy calculating machines.... bah, humbug.

    --
    Years later, a doctor will tell me that I have an I.Q. of 48, and am what some people call "mentally retarded".
    1. Re:Pfft. by damien_kane · · Score: 4, Funny

      Not only that, but we had to draw people walking uphill... both ways... in 6 ft of shredded paper!!!
      I feel your pain brother...

    2. Re:Pfft. by chunkwhite86 · · Score: 2, Funny

      When I was a boy, we did our rendering calculations by hand. A pencil, lots of paper, and we liked it! These kids today and their fancy calculating machines.... bah, humbug.

      Pen and paper? What sort of heresy is this? We used stone tablets to do our rendering on... Until Moses came along and smashed them. What is it with him and smashing tablets anyways?

      --
      I'd rather be a conservative nutjob than a liberal with no nuts and no job.
  22. Re:How fast is fast? by Soko · · Score: 4, Informative

    ok, my "render math" isn't the greatest, but I can NOT imagine that the system he had before was THAT bad? What do you really gain by adding that much MORE horsepower? Is that the difference between a frame being rendered in 45sec vs 50sec? I understand that every little bit counts, but a LOT of these movies was done live action. Unless that little Gollum thing is in every scene, why does he need more? (ok, I know, I always want faster, better too....I'm just saying)

    Well, when you're talking about a 2.5 minute CGI shot, you have 24 frames/second (minimum) X 60 seconds/minute X 2.5 minutes = 3600 frames to render. 3600 frames X 5 minutes/frame savings = 18000 minutes or 300 hours in total saved by reducing a frame render from 50 minutes to 45.

    That's just in 2.5 minutes of on-screen CGI, too - when the lions share of the film requires complex digital effects, the rest is easy to justify to the bean counters. In fact, I'd be suprised if they don't end up with even more horsepower by the time ROTK is in theatres - saving that much time provides big returns on investment.

    Soko

    --
    "Depression is merely anger without enthusiasm." - Anonymous
  23. Re:How fast is fast? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    45 seconds for a frame??? At film resolution?
    I don't know about LOTR, but the Pixar movies take an average of 8 hours of processing time (single processor) per frame.
    Of course these are all averages, and the folks at Pixar don't have to deal with integrating live action and digital at all! In LOTR, you have tons of compositing with all of that live action footage, and that eats up plenty of CPU cycles in addition to the 3D work they're doing.
    So this isn't really about making things a bit faster, this is about getting this thing released on time with all the sfx the director (and the audience) are looking for.
    So How fast is fast? Twice the processors is twice as fast.
    Rendering scales beatifully across multiple processors: doubling the processors pretty much cuts your rendering time in half... this isn't like some Office application that'll run 5% faster on a multiprocessor machine...

  24. Dangerous Downtime by heretic108 · · Score: 5, Funny

    After ROTK gets mastered, there'll be one hell of a lot of processing power laying idle.

    "Your conviction was brought to you by WETA Productions, proud suppliers of counter-encryption solutions to the law enforcement community"

    --
    -- In the beginning was the WORD, and the WORD was UNSIGNED, and the main(){} was without form and void...
    1. Re:Dangerous Downtime by malducin · · Score: 2, Informative

      Probably. Supoposdely they work on King Kong for PJ next. Apparently they might work on the film versions of the Chronicles of Narnia and rumor has it a movie based on Neon Evangelion. A lot of people were only meant to be thre until the end of the year since they didn't have any other projects lined up afterwards. A chunk of them are also foreigners, rom the US, Europe and elsewhere so they might want to go back home regardless. They will certainly go on, it just depends on the timing on the nest projects as to how much they will downsize before ramping up again.

      As far as ILM that's why they need to bid on a lot of projects. Pipeline has to be busy to accomodate the huge number of people and overhead. That's why they try to work on several projects concurrently, at the moment on Peter Pan, Van Helsing, Harry Potter 3, Ep. 3 and Master and Commander. They just wrapped The Hulk and if T3 and Pirates of the Caribbean haven't wrapped up they should do so in a week or 2 at the most.

      It's the big dilema of finding the balance between size and capacity with workload and potential work.

  25. Re:real scenes by dswensen · · Score: 4, Funny

    No, to please the fans this movie will actually be shot on location in the real live Mordor...

    WTF?!

  26. Re:I haven't read the books by asr_man · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Does Tolkien ever get around to tying all these loose ends together?

    Yes.

    hour after hour of battle scenes again?

    Yes. Or rather, at least two fairly large ones, the latter being the penultimate hopeless battle.

    What percentage of the movie can be easily projected to be CG

    Probably same ratio as seen in TTT.

    [can Jackson] tear himself away from the computerized stuff long enough to actually tell a story

    The "real" story has many details that necessarily get lost in a fast-moving screen. You can't really grok LOTR without being infected by the books first.

    Serious questions ...

    I'm a fan of the books who found the movies to be suprisingly faithful in spirit to them, to the highest degree that can be expected for a screen version.

  27. Re:How fast is fast? by b17bmbr · · Score: 2, Funny

    Unless that little Gollum thing is in every scene, why does he need more?

    um, ya read the book? he makes more than a cameo.

    --
    My problem? I was perfectly gruntled, until some numbnuts came by and dissed me.
  28. Re:I haven't read the books by cyril3 · · Score: 2, Funny
    Serious questions from someone who has serious reservations recommending Fellowship of the Rings and The Twin Towers to others.

    Yeah, there I was thimnking I had an enjoyable few hours. You're right, it was such an awful movie.

    Nothing happened, the special effects were shite, the acting was unconvincing (did anyone really believe there was two of those little weird guys, you couldn't get two guys that ugly).

    All in all a complete waste of $10.00 for 6 hours of mindless entertainment. I really should be doing something more worthwhile. What do you suggest.

  29. Thoughts on Shelob by Nova+Express · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The article mentioned that the battle with Shelob was one of the two fights requiring a lot of CGI, which is...interesting. And reminded me of two things:

    1. At my next-to-last job, we had a server named Shelob, complete with a little name sticker on the outside. Now, instead of outside the server, Shelob's going to be inside it. ;-)

    2. When I talked to Sauron (aka Sala Baker after he accepted the Hugo for The Fellowship of the Rings at last year's worldcon, I asked about Shelob and he assured me that Shelob was going to be "really cool."

    3. Of course, I didn't realize at that point that Shelob had been pushed back into The Return of the King; if it hadn't, 2002 would have been a banner year for giant spider films, since Eight Legged Freaks also came out that year. I understand why they moved the scene, but it makes me think that The Return of the King will probably show very little, if any, of the scourging of the Shire. Which is something of a shame, because I rather like John Clute's theory that the scourging of the Shire represents a diminished recapitulation of Sauron's fall, in the same way Sauron's own fall is a diminished recapitulation of Morgoth's. Oh well...

    --
    Lawrence Person (lawrencepersonh@gmailh.com (remove all "h"s to mail)

    http://www.lawrenceperson.com/

  30. Yes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative
    Yes these things have floppy and CD-ROM drives. One set of these for every 14 blade servers (14 blades maximum per bladecenter chassis).

    You can select using a button on the front of each blade which of the 14 blades in the BladeCenter chassis has ownership of the 'MediaTray'.
    Of course this switching can also be done remotely over Ethernet using the management interface (which also provides power, reset, remote video and much, much more).

    From the OS viewpoint the Floppy and CD-ROM drive are USB devices, so switching the MediaTray to another blade server actually causes a USB disconnect/connect.

    If you want to see what they look like: http://ibm.com/servers/eserver/bladecenter/

  31. Re:I haven't read the books by ObviousGuy · · Score: 2, Funny

    Nothing happened, the special effects were shite, the acting was unconvincing

    Of those three things, two actually were satisfying. Namely, the special effects and the acting.

    As for nothing happening, I think I can sum up FOTR in a couple sentences for you.

    "Frodo gets a Ring that is really bad and must be destroyed in some special volcano which is really hard to get to. After that, lots of fighting."

    I will call a spade a spade and say that yes, nothing happened.

    --
    I have been pwned because my /. password was too easy to guess.
  32. Re:More the ILM? by malducin · · Score: 4, Informative

    Well if anything you can't fault VFX with the story. But yes each prequel had over 2000 VFX shots. You have to read the article though, last film Weta did about 800 VFX shots and for this they are doing upwards of 1200. As their technology matures (Massive, muscle dynamics, subsurface scattering) you can even throw more things at to the VFX.

    It certainly is a big setup, they are adding 1,176 new processors to what they already had (which was stated in an article some time ago). Probably ILM and Imageworks have a bit more though. The article says that they have the largets Intel deployment, but places like ILM and Imageworks, besides their Intel/Linux machine still have quite bit of SGI hardware around. An article on the SGI websitye a couple years back stated ILM had an 800 CPU Origin 2000 machine, and around 500 O2s. Since then a lot of the TDs, animators and compositors have gotten Dell Linux workstations and several of them keep the 2 machines side by side (the O2 and the Dell). ILM and Pixar also recently added to their renderfarm via RackSaver:

    Pixar switches from Sun to Intel
    Racksaver testimonials
    AMD debuts server processor, readies 'Barton'
    SGI Powers 5 Summer films

    It certainly is nice that New Line is paying for this though. I'm sure other studios are envious ;-).

  33. For the last time, there is no Scouring in ROTK by Overly+Critical+Guy · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I understand why they moved the scene, but it makes me think that The Return of the King will probably show very little, if any, of the scourging of the Shire.

    How many times does this need to be repeated? In just about every interview with Peter Jackson, cast, and crew since 1999, they have said the Scouring will not be in the movie. It's in the DVD audio commentaries, endless magazine articles, and web postings. They paid homage to it in the Mirror of Galadriel. This has been stated countless times.

    For the last time, there will be no Scouring in the Return of the King!

    --
    "Sufferin' succotash."
    1. Re:For the last time, there is no Scouring in ROTK by trampel · · Score: 5, Insightful

      First time I hear this, and it's a real disappointment.

      I always felt the brilliance of the trilogy was in how Tolkien managed to slow down the pace and return the reader into the real world at the end.

      Also, I found it fascinating how the 4 hobbits barely draw a sweat liberating the shire, it reminds me of Neo's final fight with Agent Smith at the end of the Matrix I - one gets the impression that Frodo is half asleep during the "scouring of the shire" because its such a trivial event compared to what they just went through.

  34. nope, not the largest by mz001b · · Score: 3, Informative
    to make up the largest Intel-based high- performance computer site in the world with more than 2000 linked processors.

    In terms of number of processors, ASCI Red at Sandia has had > 9000 Intel pentium pro (and them pentium II Xeon) procesors since the late 1990s.

    It's still # 15 on the top 500 list

  35. Re:How fast is fast? by dnoyeb · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Yes, this is a true fact that is comming to light. Even at my job, when you add more computing power, you do not reduce the time to takes to complete a job, just increase the overall quality of that job.

  36. Space? by rmohr02 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    It's kind of funny that the main factor in Weta Digital's decision on the Blade servers was the space they took up, not the cost. Apparently Weta is running out of room.

    1. Re:Space? by honestpuck · · Score: 4, Funny
      You said :-
      It's kind of funny that the main factor in Weta Digital's decision on the Blade servers was the space they took up, not the cost. Apparently Weta is running out of room.
      Well, New Zealand's not a big country, you know. Not to mention they have to fit in all the sheep as well as computer clusters.

      Tony Williams

  37. In the Land of Redmond, where the Shadows lie. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Recently one of my friends, a computer wizard, paid me a visit. As we were talking I mentioned that I had recently installed Windows 95 on my PC, I told him how happy I was with this operating system and showed him the Windows 95 CD. To my surprise he threw it into my micro-wave oven and turned on the oven. Instantly I got very upset, because the CD had become precious to me, but he said: 'Do not worry, it is unharmed.' After a few minutes he took the CD out, gave it to me and said: 'Take a close look at it.' To my surprise the CD was quite cold to hold and it seemed to be heavier than before. At first I could not see anything, but on the inner edge of the central hole I saw an inscription, an inscription finer than anything I have ever seen before. The inscription shone piercingly bright, and yet remote, as if out of a great depth:

    12413AEB2ED4FA5E6F7D78E78BEDE8209450920F923A40EE10 E510CC98D444AA08E1324

    'I cannot understand the fiery letters,' I said.

    'No but I can,' he said. 'The letters are Hex, of an ancient mode, but the language is that of Microsoft, which I shall not utter here. But in common English this is what it says:'

    One OS to rule them all, One OS to find them,
    One OS to bring them all and in the darkness bind them.

    ref

    1. Re:In the Land of Redmond, where the Shadows lie. by PD · · Score: 5, Funny

      Completely unbelievable. Nobody would call Win 95 "my precious."

    2. Re:In the Land of Redmond, where the Shadows lie. by Taliesan999 · · Score: 2, Funny

      Yes, but it will drive you insane.

  38. Subtly hilarious.. by Space+Coyote · · Score: 4, Insightful
    --
    ___
    Cogito cogito, ergo cogito sum.
  39. Re:588??? by Squarewav · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I know your joking but most likely who ever ordered them had a set amout to spend and 588 was the most they could get

  40. Re:I haven't read the books by the+eric+conspiracy · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I haven't read the books

    That's too bad. Amazon.com readers picked these books as the best fiction of the 20th century. To really enjoy the movie you have to know the books.

    Does Tolkien ever get around to tying all these loose ends together?

    He ties all the loose ends together, and then in the appendices adds in enough backstory to support another 10 books.

    Do you think that Jackson can tear himself away from the computerized stuff long enough to actually tell a story in this one?

    I don't think that it is possible to tell the LOTR story in less than about 20-30 hours of movies. When I saw that somebody was going to try I shuddered. There is a lot of stuff getting mutilated or left out in these movies.

    On the other hand I do not believe that it is possible to do any better on film than Jackson is doing. What he is doing is far beyond what I thought would happen.

  41. Re:I haven't read the books by HeghmoH · · Score: 5, Funny

    Yeah. Here's some summaries of other equally shitty pieces of literature:

    Romeo and Juliet: "Romeo and Juliet love each other, but their families hate each other, so they kill themselves."

    Les Miserables: "A criminal escapes, and an inspector tries to recapture him."

    And one that our readers may be more familiar with, Cryptonomicon: "An internet start-up tries to make it big with help from an employee's dead father."

    --
    Mod down posts with a "Free Mac Mini/iPod" sig, they're spam!
  42. Re:I haven't read the books by Shishio · · Score: 3, Insightful

    and truly adapting the story to the big screen

    Someone who hasn't read the books really has no place offering suggestions to a director about how to adapt a story. Go read the books if you don't understand the movie.

    --
    Twelve fingers or one, its how you play. ~Gattaca (Vincent)
  43. Plans for a sequel? by pb · · Score: 5, Funny

    Here's my dream for a sequel to TITANIC; it's also a love story, and could also pave the way for an awesome TITANIC 3:

    Start like the first movie, panning around underwater, until you find Jack's dead, bloated corpse. Play some heart-rending music, pan around, whatever. Then, just like NIGHT OF THE LIVING DEAD, the corpse WAKES UP.

    He rises up and starts walking. Then feel free to add whatever adventures or misadventures with sharks, undead pirates, giant squids, whatever, etc., etc. As much fun as that is, it is secondary to our main focus.

    However, as the movie goes on, Jack's appearance should get more and more gruesome, with decomposing bits of flesh that fall off or get eaten, barnacles, sea weed, whatever. By the end he should appear to be part zombie, part skeleton, with some debris thrown in for good measure. However, he should also be totally grotesque in appearance, and therefore still be recognizable as Leonardo DiCaprio.

    Finally, our (anti-)hero gets close to his goal. He looks up, and sees a ring falling through the water. He grabs the ring, floats/swims upward, looks up at the old woman leaning over and staring down, and says in his best boyish Leo voice "Hey, you dropped this!"

    She then has a heart attack, falls into the water, and dies. And they're finally together, forever! Cue triumphant romantic music.

    THE END

    --
    pb Reply or e-mail; don't vaguely moderate.
    1. Re:Plans for a sequel? by GimmeFuel · · Score: 2, Funny
      I think this would do better as Evil Dead 4:

      It's set in the present day. James Cameron is exploring the Titanic shipwreck when his sub accidently bumps DiCaprio's waterlogged corpse. This causes him to wake up and become a zombie. He then infects the entire expedition's crew, including Cameron, and they run around Hollywood raising hell. Ash comes in and kicks major ass, and the world rejoices and names Ash their new king. The fucking end.

      Seriously, who the fuck wouldn't pay to see Bruce Campbell kick the unholy shit out of DiCraprio with a chainsaw and a sawed-off?

  44. Background is essential by dzimmerm · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Watching the LOTR moview requires some background from the books in order to fully appreciate what is going on in various scenes.

    One comparison would be having to stop and explain the concept of god in the movie Bruce Almighty. A large number of people in the U.S.A. are familiar with the concept of god. This means the makers of a movie that have god as a participant would rely on the background people have learned over their lives. They would not need to explain what god is.

    In the LOTR movies there is a vast cosmology that in some basic ways differes from our current world. If you know nothing of this cosmology then the movies may or may not be appealing to you based on the limited comprehesion and incorrect assumptions you will make due to you not possessing the needed background information.

    IMHO Tolkien was a master story teller by the time he got about halfway through the two towers. The first part of the written story drags a little but once you get further into it it moves quite well. For those who like charactor development the FOTR is great charactor building information.

    If you do not like to read the printed page I would recommend getting an unabridged audio tape set of the LOTR and listening to it. You could borrow such a set from a library without too much searching. www.recordedbooks.com has an unabridged reading of the complete LOTR broken into the three books. I quite enjoyed listening to the FOTR while driving back and forth to work.

    That is my two pence worth. YMMV.

    dzimmerm

    --
    Jumping to correct solutions slowly is better than jumping to incorrect solutions quickly.
    1. Re:Background is essential by Phroggy · · Score: 2, Informative

      If you do not like to read the printed page I would recommend getting an unabridged audio tape set of the LOTR and listening to it. You could borrow such a set from a library without too much searching. www.recordedbooks.com has an unabridged reading of the complete LOTR broken into the three books.

      I second that recommendation. The performance by Rob Ingles was excellent; listening to his voices, I could visualize almost every character from the movies, because his voice matched the voice of the actors in the movie very well, and this was recorded in 1990. Notable exceptions included Elrond, who was completely different; I don't think Hugo Weaving was a particularly good choice for that role.

      --
      $x='S24;r)>63/* h@<5+oZ)32"5cz';$me='phroggy'x$];
      $x=~y+ -xz+\0-Tx+;print$_^chop$me for split'',$x;
  45. Re:A few million by sakusha · · Score: 3, Insightful
    Human creativity has thus far always been able to far exceed our wildest technological dreams.

    Bullshit. Bullshit bullshit bullshit.

    I've worked with Academy Award winning animators and effects people, and their #1 continual complaint is that their clients have no imagination. They whine that they get asked to do the same effects over and over, because the director saw some effect somewhere else and wants to copy it.

    If there really was one gram of creativity anywhere in the movie world, Jackson would write an original script instead of adapting an existing work. Creativity is such boring work, it's easier to copy.
  46. Re:A few million by macshit · · Score: 2, Interesting

    They've forgotten they're STORYTELLERS, not architects, generals, etc. Remember LOTR is a story that sold MILLIONS of copies with no special effects other than a nondescript painting on the cover of the book.

    Jackson & company have done a bang-up job so far. Indeed, I think in many ways they've done a better job than Tolkien did -- I found myself actually caring about what happened to the characters in the movies, whereas many of the same characters in the books are stiffly drawn and end up seeming bloodless and interchangeable despite the elaborate genealogies. For all his strengths, Tolkien was really not a particularly good writer...

    --
    We live, as we dream -- alone....
  47. Re:How fast is fast? by Dylan+Zimmerman · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Yes, 5 seconds per frame IS a big deal. I do some rendering and it takes FOREVER to render just 1 second of DV quality (720*480 at 29.97 FPS) footage. Last time I did a big render, it took about 55 seconds per frame, so that's almost half an hour for a single second of video. If I was able to shave 5 seconds per frame off, that translates to 2.5 minutes per second of rendered video. It doesn't sound like much, but every little bit helps when you're rendering 45 seconds of video.

    Unfortunately, Maya's good renderer doesn't use my graphics hardware. It's really too bad because I have a GeForce 4 Ti 4400 and I'm sure that it would speed up my renderings a lot.

    Of course, Weta's old cluster is a lot better than anything I'm ever going to be working with, but they also render at obscene resolutions to keep things like Gollum looking smooth and crisp. I wonder how fast their new cluster renders.

  48. Re:A few million by asr_man · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Creativity is such boring work...

    Real creativity is risky. It's less risky to copy a proven winner. Make a creative flop, get the blame. Copy a proven formula and you're likely to profit. And that's at the bottom of all this, isn't it.

    Tolkien said he intended nothing more than to tell a tale that he hoped others would find entertaining. I am persuaded his love for his craft was greater than his hope of profiting greatly from the sharing of it. He must have expected that it would also bore many people...

  49. Re:real scenes by lethalwp · · Score: 2, Interesting

    No, but since the movie is planned for release in december as the others were, they saw they were short on time to render the scenes, so they bought more cpu power, to complete it in time =)

  50. Clusters for home video production? by -tji · · Score: 4, Interesting

    There have been several stories about these huge clusters used to speed up rendering. Do any consumer level home video apps support offloading to other hosts?

    The available tools are becoming extremely powerful. iMovie and Final Cut on MacOS are great. There are several good Windows options too. But, the conversion from MiniDV to MEPG2 for DVD takes several hours.

    How long before they include an agent to load on other hosts, to distribute processing? It seems like this would be pretty easy to implement. Is anyone doing it?

    1. Re:Clusters for home video production? by martinX · · Score: 3, Informative

      It mightn't be in the "home video production" realm but Shake, now brought to you by your favourite fruit company, can distribute rendering tasks. iMovie can't be far behind...

      --
      When they came for the communists, I said "He's next door. Take him away. Goddam commies."
    2. Re:Clusters for home video production? by Dynedain · · Score: 4, Informative

      Combustion (a compositing package similar to shake) already does this. Most 3D rendering applications support network rendering now as well. Weta is rendering to an individual file for each frame. Because of the nature of multithreaded processing and the inherent problems of multiple computers writing to the same file simultaneously, encoding to mpeg and to dvd is still time consuming, and typically only involve one machine. Even the pro-level applications (cleaner for encoding to MPEG, and Apple's DVD Studio Pro or Sonic ReelDVD for authoring DVDs) still only use one machine. Rendering 3D scenes is a completely different process than encoding video.

      --
      I'm out of my mind right now, but feel free to leave a message.....
  51. Another story : with picture by Lock+Ness · · Score: 2, Informative
    http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/0,2106,2540295a1896,0 0.html

    They screwed up the number of blades though....

  52. Matrix Reloaded by unity · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Thank you. Matrix Reloaded was perhaps the worst movie I've seen in years.....At times i felt like I was back in my Philosophy class, with all the meaningless drivel they kept spouting out.

    If they wanted to make a action/kung-fu flick then they should have gotten actors that are actually convincing at it. I've seen orange belts with better skills.

  53. Re:588??? by Tihstae · · Score: 5, Informative

    I would just like to know why 588 computers?

    IBM Blade Center that holds the blade server is 7U. Each Blade Center holds 14 blade servers. IBM's racks are 42U.

    42U Rack / 7U Blade Center = 6 Blade Centers/rack
    14 servers X 6 Blade Centers = 84 servers/rack
    7 Racks X 84 servers = 588 Servers

  54. Buncha horsepower... by Tmack · · Score: 3, Informative
    I know it doesnt scale this way, but its still phun to look at these numbers...

    588 blades
    x 2CPUs each
    == 1176 physical CPU's
    x 2cpus/cpu (hyperthreading on the xenons)
    == 2352 hyperthreaded cpu's
    x 2.8GHz
    == 6585.6GHz
    ~6.6THz

    well... thats a just a bit of rendering power, wonder whats gona happen once they are done with them. Which also makes me wonder, what happended to that somewhat famous renderfarm for toystory? Seems whenever a movie requiring horsepower like this comes out, they just buy new equipment since the stuff used on the last movie is probably obsolete already... ohwell

    Tm

    --
    Support TBI Research: http://www.raisinhope.org
    1. Re:Buncha horsepower... by terremoto · · Score: 2, Interesting
      wonder whats gona happen once they are done with them.

      Perhaps they'll add some more work units to their setiathome stats?

  55. Re:How about a mix with Star Trek? by Billly+Gates · · Score: 2, Funny
    What we need for a real cool movie is to combine the LOR and Star Trek fan base together. We can have a really cool intro that would resemble this.

  56. Re:Use #1532 for 2000+ Processor Cluster by jared_hanson · · Score: 2, Informative

    Code analysis is notoriously difficult to do, and some problems encountered along the way are probably impossible to solve, at least from an algorithmic perspective. You will never see lines of code analyzed and rid of bugs completely due to that analysis. If you could do that, the vast majority of programmers would be out of jobs.

    --
    -- Fighting mediocrity one bad post at a time.
  57. Re: A few million by Animixer · · Score: 2, Informative

    I've worked with Academy Award winning animators and effects people, and their #1 continual complaint is that their clients have no imagination. They whine that they get asked to do the same effects over and over, because the director saw some effect somewhere else and wants to copy it.

    I think the same problem presented itself 30 years ago when analog 'sythesizers' such as the moog modulars became popular. Early work was highly experimental (especially so with Buchla boxes), but once synths were used in pop recordings, other people would want to use the same particular sound as well (often as a gimmick to sell more records, cashing in on the synth craze).

    Because of this trend of using similar sounds, rather than trying to be unique and develop your own, synth makers began to make smaller, less versatile synths that satisfied most peoples' needs, while limiting the creativity of the true artists. This trend continued into the 80's when synthesizers tried more and more to sound like instruments that already existed. You've got to remember that in the beginning, there were people against having synths be keyboard controlled, because that would influence people into playing one and treating it like other keyboard instruments that already existed (organs, piano, etc). I believe that they had a point, but I also don't think there was a better controller device available.

    (for a good book on the subject, check out "Analog Days" by Trevor Pinch and Frank Trocco)

    Think of it in this perspective: If there were only two or three computers in the world capable of rendering VFX for movies (substitute in synthesizers for creating music), only the most talented artists would be allowed to have time on the machines. Most of the work coming out of this would be top-notch. Now that the barriers to entry in the field are much lower, there aren't enough brilliant minds to go around, so you end up with much higher percentage of crap, but in absolute numbers, you should also get more great works.

    There are truly brilliant, creative people out there. They are, however, a tiny minority of the populace at large. Maybe I have a bad outlook on things, but it's very demoralizing when you realize that most people are boring, uninteresting, uncreative blobs of matter.

    I thank God that once in a while, I find something that gives me hope for humanity.

    --
    man tunefs | grep fish
  58. "Drawn" frames? by MidnightBrewer · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Is it me, or does the phrase, "The cluster will be used to render the frames drawn by the animators..." bother anybody else? If the frames were "drawn," why would you need to render them? ;)

    This is 3D CG. There is no drawing involved in the frames that need to be rendered.

    Normally, I avoid being anal, but I couldn't leave this one alone.

    --
    "Give a man fire, and he'll be warm for a day; set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life
  59. LOTR:ROTK...Whoa! by fishexe · · Score: 2, Funny

    Slow down, that's way to much acronymization!

    --
    "I don't care about the Constitution!" --Bill O'Reilly, November 17, 2009
  60. Re:Something doesn't make sense here... by jfbus · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Here are some differences

    1/ With those blades, you'll about 7 cables (2 network (redundant) + 4 power (redundant) + 1 management processor network) for 14 blades (1/2 cable for 1 blade with total redundancy).

    With your server, you'll have 2 cables, without dedundancy (and 5 cables with power/network redundancy and a management processor).

    For 588 servers, you'll have 294 cables instead of 1176 (or 2940).

    2/ With blades, a server is hotplug : no cables to remove/replug

    (Blades are also easier to manage than standard servers)

  61. Re:Something doesn't make sense here... by sirsnork · · Score: 2, Insightful

    They may be short systems but the total depth of the rack is quite a bit bigger from memory.

    --

    Normal people worry me!
  62. Nice to see a business where payoff is appreciated by nomadicGeek · · Score: 2, Interesting

    "New Line understands Peter's vision and understands it is bound by technology, so it makes sure technology is not a bottleneck," Houston said. "In the big scheme, a few million dollars for a couple of thousand processors will pay dividends."

    In so many of the things that we do the payoff for the use of new technology is not always obvious to everyone. It must be nice to work in an industry where the relationship between the latest technology and the payoff is so easily defined.

  63. In other news... by jtheory · · Score: 2, Funny

    ... spare cycles before rendering began have been applied to the SETI @ Home project.

    One week into this endeavor, alien life was successfully created (and beautifully rendered).

    --
    There are only 10 types of people: those who understand decimal, those who don't, and, uh, 8 other types I forget.
  64. Weta as Saruman by xmbrst · · Score: 3, Interesting
    Tolkien would surely have been horrified at the idea of a great engine generating his world: "whereas it had once been green and fair, it was now filled with pits and forges." I imagine ents demolishing a wall of clustered machines.

    But then Tolkien was a little bit uncomfortable with the world-creating industry embodied in his own works as well. The root of Melkor's evil in the Silmarillion is his desire to create his own world (when really all he can do is warp the existing one--changing elves into orcs). The conflict between Tolkien's utter devotion to his desire for unreal worlds and his willingness to look at the dark side of that desire makes for both interesting reading and interesting viewing. (It's a particularly relevant theme for geeks, I think.)

    '"White!" [Saruman] sneered. "It serves as a beginning. White cloth may be dyed. The white page can be overwritten; and the white light can be broken."'