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Three LindowsOS PCs Reviewed
Eugenia writes "Not one, but three LindowsOS-based PCs (in the value range of $199 USD) were reviewed online by WashingtonPost. A TigerDirect PC, the traditional WalMart/MicrotelPC and one from Nova Computech. The reviewer says that these PCs while are very low-end today, compared to PCs 2 years ago, are actually pretty good solutions for home usage. The reviewer found them lacking in the gaming (no respectable 3D gfx card included), expandibility departments and while he mentions that Linux-based LindowsOS is affordable, is not a panacea as it lacks in good USB support and other demanding areas of our modern times."
no respectable 3D gfx card included
Thats O.K With Linux, no respectable 3D drivers would be included either.
while he mentions that Linux-based LindowsOS is affordable, is not a panakeia as it lacks in good USB support
It also apparently lacks Ispell.
what year is this again 1998?? so after the OS that leaves what 1.5 gigs, I guess they would make good dumb X terminals. good luck doing anything else
For the price you get a good deal. $199 for a pc with OS, that is the same price as Windows XP alone. For $199 nobody should expect good 3d cars in the machine because a new 3d card designed to run modern 3d games costs $199. these machines are good for what they are designed for, inexpensive pc's to read email and browse the web.
... Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just Powers from the Consent of the Governed...
All through the complaints on what they are lacking one point is missed... THEY COST $199.00! they are basically a bare-bones PC. hell add another $59.00 and you can get a low end Geforce 4 and make it scream for games.
for $199.00 these things are great.
and the fact they are windows free are even better.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
Mr.Robertson said recently in the wake of the SCO vs IBM filing, that he'd paid money to SCO to keep quiet, atleast as regards his flavor of Linux.
This sounds so cowardly and backwards for true Linux enthusiasts. Those who really buy Lindows to use the bundled Linux can load other and better distros as well.
It doesn't sound right - being aggressive against Microsoft and a weakling against puny SCO.
If you keep throwing chairs, one day you'll break windows....
I don't know but I didn't find Lindows a good replacement for Linux for those who want to try the *nix world, especially that it costs money and doesn't come with all the software a good distro comes with, anyway, I guess it maybe good for those who think that windows is the only OS.
The IT section color scheme sucks.
I got the impression they were biased from the beginning.
'they cant perform' due to the fact they are not cutting edge technology.
So what? most people don't have brand new stuff and get their jobs done just fine.
In business 99% of the computers are idle, waiting for the user to do something. Even in home life ( games aside ), the computer is NOT being taxed.. its mostly just a expensive heat generating device.
The idea you HAVE to keep this current cycle of upgrades going is really irritating. Efficient programming and some commonsense goes a long way.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
This is the second story I've seen where the text on the main page didn't match the text of the real story. On the main page I see:
mentions that Linux-based LindowsOS is affordable, is not a panakeia
and in the story:
mentions that Linux-based LindowsOS is affordable, is not a panacea
Obviously a correction of a typo, but why doesn't it show up on the main page?! (I'm not caching the page either, this happens on PC's that I've never used to visit slashdot.) Sorry for the OT post, but I'm losing my Mind!
Go away, or I will replace you with a very small shell script.
And then...
"The reviewer found them lacking in the gaming, expandibility departments... lacks in good USB support and other demanding areas of our modern times."
Now maybe I'm just being picky here, but at least based on the headline, it would seem that this reviewer is contradicting himself.
There's a Mercedes gap too. I want one and can't afford one, but it's not government's job to do anything about it.
Or... You plugh in the Lindows tinies as work stations in your kitchen (to access your recipe database) and bedroom, next to your server. When the Wall Mart stuff support Wi-Fi, that is...
What part of These computers sell for $200 did you miss? This isn't the late 90's era of "best bang for under a grand", this is a review of "best bang for an average lower-class can be paid for in a pay check" system. These computers aren't designed to be top of the line, these are a super happy medium between price and performance. If you want a gaming machine for less than $200, got get an PS2, XBox, or GameCube, these computers are meant to do what computers cheaply do. Surf the net, write papers/emails, dink around, etc.
What USB support is lacking? These computers are meant to be useable for Joe Average computer user. You can still visit slashdot with the damned things, no one thought to mention that as a high point. Lindows with a low price system makes a perfect computer for folks wanting to get on the internet and type up some christmas cards. This isn't meant to play Doom III, please remember that, there is a market that wal-mart sells to, and that market is designed for this computer.
Ignore the "p2p is theft" trolls, they're just uninformed
The machine is agonizingly slow because of its tiny 3GB drive, which the manufacturer said was recycled from an old notebook computer
Apparently the reviewer doesn't understand all that much about PC hardware. (S)he claims that the machine was slow because of the size of the hard drive!? The only way I can think of that mattering is if it causes you to have less swap space. Yeah, that drive is deinitely too small, but that won't make the machine slower! If it's a slow drive, then that will cut back performance, but when it comes to the speed of access "size doesn't matter". You could make a 3 gig drive that spins at 7200 rpms, and has 8 mb cache, and could be blazing (almost) and still small. That comment discredited everything (s)he said to me. Also, if it's taken from an old notebook, does that mean it's a 2.5" drive?
I have one more question that (s)he never answered. (S)he said that all but one of them didn't have a monitor included, but never said which came with one. Either I mis-read it, or there's some important information missing here. A 1 GHz system with a monitor for only $199 is incredible. Anyone have any info on that?
This space for rent, inquire within.
I know it's commonplace in newswriting, but the contradictory style of the author is particularly annoying in this review:
.] but they generally worked surprisingly well and offered room to grow"
"A $200 Computer Can Perform, Barely" [emphasis added]
"[. .
And soforth. Why not just put a positive headline as opposed to putting a negative headline and contradicting it throughout your article? I know I know, negative headline increases readership. Feh.
Loomis
"The television is the retina of the mind's eye" - Videodrome
It also apparently lacks Ispell.
a cea
Sure, the *English* word is panacea.
But the GREEK word that panacea is derived from is "panakeia" -- spelled as in the posting -- meaning (like the English word) a cure-all.
I am not making this up:
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=pan
There are only 10 types of people: those who understand decimal, those who don't, and, uh, 8 other types I forget.
It seems to be a distro aimed at software-review journalists.
I'll end with my favorite lines from the review:
Something about this strikes me as being really funny, but I'm not quite sure what it is. (Though I know XP home is only about $99, now, but, whatever...)
philcrissman.com.
Yet another disappointing review whose title should really be âoeA review of the barebones hardware you can get for $200 at Walmart.â There are two, count em, two sentences about Lindows in the whole story:
All three came preinstalled with Lindows, a version of the Linux operating system designed for home users. But Lindows has drawbacks, notably poor support for USB peripherals such as digital cameras and scanners.
Dissapointing that they missed the opportunity to really talk about if this is the PC for grandma, or the other novice users who would be buying a PC so low on the dollar spectrum.
Im not sure at which point this year he picked these machines up, but within the past month ive picked up a few of the walmart variety, and ive got to say that theyre fine. I purchased the 200 dollar model and i got a 1.2GHz Duron,128,nic,sound,video,20GB HD...(Ironically, im installing mandrake on one now). :p
For the low low price of just 217 (My shipping was much lower than his?), i got this guy shipped right to my doorstep. Honestly, theyre great. Fantastic.
Although i wasnt the biggest supporter of Lindows before, after seeing it in action, it really is what my grandmother would need to use Linux. (It even comes with a recovery CD)
Its also worth mentioning that for an extra couple hundred (was $397 for me with shipping) you can have a 14.1 inch flatpanel included with that. As far as the quality goes, its nothing id use for proffesional imaging, but for surfing and sims its more than fine.
Sounds like a deal to me.
And NO, i dont work for walmart.com
I wonder how many people will catch on to the quote at the end where the author mentions that Windows XP Home costs as much as the entire PC + Linux. With luck, it'll make some folks think.
Microsoft: "Drop Dead!" Lindows: "I don't do requests" I got nothing
And don't forget another hundred or so for a new hard drive that can hold said games, and a few hours to replace the old video card and HD and install the OS on it, and figure out how to install the NVIDIA drivers, and oh shit, this just went WAY beyond the capabilities of Joe Sixpack.
There's a Mercedes gap too. I want one and can't afford one, but it's not government's job to do anything about it.
When my trip was finished, it fit into my big Samsonite and I took it back with me. I did two things when I got back home - move the power supply button to 220 and the switch the OS to SuSE Linux. I changed to SuSE because I like that distro more than Michael Robertson's 'apt-get' for a fee'. That's the weakest part of the whole deal.
I just put Red Hat 9 on the box about a week ago. It runs a little slower, but pretty well all in all. I think it was a good value. It's on all the time and it stands up pretty well. If it runs for a year, it's paid itself back.
I've been swashdotted -- Elmer Fudd
The panakeia / panacea error is not, technically speaking, a typo. It is a language error: panakeia is the Greek spelling of the Greek word, panacea the Latin transliteration. In English, words "naturalized" from Greek before ~1900 are spelled with the Latin transliteration (because most often they were, in fact, borrowed from Latin, which had borrowed them from Greek); after ~1900 with a stricter transliteration. The English spelling is of course panacea.
>> Despite their scaled-back features, these computers run on AMD Duron 1.0- or 1.1GHz processors, making them speedy enough for word processing, Internet access, working with digital pictures and playing some games.
I think 1GHz is MORE than good enough for word processing and internet browsing. I was doing the said activities on a 100 MHz machine back in the old days without much trouble. Otherwise the review is fair and notes that the machines are able to do what they are designed for.
is that in the drive to push the price of Lindows PCs down far below Windows PCs and to sell to a mass market, that some good means are made available for utilizing software modems (a.k.a. Winmodems) that have plagued Linux users for years as (i)being ubiquitous, (ii) having proprietary, hard to decipher interfaces.
"Provided by the management for your protection."
We set 4 of them up for junior employees... They happily chug away with Mandrake on them. Lindows was kind of neat, but we wanted machines that would listen to our LDAP server (running OS X). We just mount the OS X Users share point via NFS and away they go. Each machine has Mozilla on it plus an email application, and they are useful for our web researchers.
They don't have the maintenance headache (and cost) of a Windows machine, and are cheaper than the eMacs that we otherwise use for low end computing.
Alex
It may not be a typo, but having two spellings of the same word definitely isn't oikonomical.
Shop as usual. And avoid panic buying.
And as long as the Linux community maintains this elitist attitude, it will NEVER replace/defeat Windows.
There's a Mercedes gap too. I want one and can't afford one, but it's not government's job to do anything about it.
"And as long as the Linux community maintains this elitist attitude, it will NEVER replace/defeat Windows."
And as long as Joe is reluctant to understand (not even learn) Linux, he doesn't deserve it. It isn't elitism, just practical wisdom.
If Joe depends on hotmail spam to get his education (free diplomas), his money (free credit checks) and his wisdom (sponsored study reports), he deserves what he gets from the present owners of said e-mail service.
Linux helps those who refuse to believe all they hear.
If you keep throwing chairs, one day you'll break windows....
Just what I expected. The review barely qualifies as such, but its overview covers what most suspect -- that these are low power machines built for low power work. That being said, I think the concept is fantastic. For the starving students out there this can be an utterly cheap solution for having a PC to type stuff up on. This would also be good for having "dumb terminals" for other rooms around the house.
"I'm a leaf on the wind. Watch how I soar."
-Hoban Washburn
computers run on AMD Duron 1.0- or 1.1GHz processors,...The machines aren't fast enough to do intensive work like... playing Quake III,
So I guess I was just imagining it when I played Quake3 on my Celeron-533? Even if it's got a crappy graphics card, a Geforce2MX would be plenty good enough and costs like $30 or something. Finally, cheap computers with "good enough" performance.
So far a lot of the comments have been of the following types:
1. Hey, that's a really shitty review.
2. What great/terrible hardware for $199.
3. Lindows is/isn't a good choice for home usage.
I think ya'll are missing the big picture - the fact that a Linux based PC even got reviewed in such a mainstream news source! Its not posted to Slashdot because it is a complete technical review, nor to let all you l33t fuckers know about the crazy good hardware inside to make your little coder jaws go slack in awe. It got posted to slashdot because, holy shit, its a review of a Linux-based PC in a very prominent online news source that the majority of readers who visit have probably never laid eyes on Linux before. Its called EXPOSURE (and not the bad, get registered to a sex offender database type, either.)
Especially in the face of all the FUD surrounding Linux cuz of those SCO bastards, its really nice to see an average Joe type news source with an average Joe type reviewer gving space and consideration to a rather new, highly feared and doubted, but otherwise relatively UNKNOWN (to most people, not geeks) solution to the problem of a new PC costing too much money.
And if mom and dad or grandma and grandpa can send email, surf the web, use their digital camera, and play some Sims, what the hell are they missing? When was the last time your grandma bragged about her frag rate? That doesn't count if your grandma is Italian and runs hits for the mob.
Anyway, my 2Â.
Who exactly is joe service pack?
My girlfriend doesn't understand tech, but she would be just fine with one of these Lindows PC's. she writes papers and checks her e-mail on her computer, and that's pretty much it. She doesn't need to understand tech, nor should she have to. She doesn't understand how an internal combustion engine works, nor do most Americans, but she can drive a car just fine (in fact, she's a better driver than most people I know, myself included).
Your attitude is not simply just why Linux hasn't caught on, it's also why people at large hold geeks up to ridicule and scorn.
my pet machine
For $200 plus another $80 in parts we recently purchased 10 machines that we are using for 20 users (via RedHat 9 and the multiple XFree86 hack). They are working quite well for data entry via the internet and at under $150/seat (purchased more RAM and a video card) they're quite a bargain if you ask me.
A short and free review by Consumer Reports can be summed up by the quote: We weren't impressed
Although you can argue that these PCs are sufficient for most tasks, the fact that they are being sold at Wal-mart opens them up to criticism like this because, really, are wal-mart customers going to know the difference between buying a Windows PC and a Lindows PC? I would buy one of these as a techie, but I wouldn't recommend it to most folks that shop for electronics at Wal-mart.
If you're making a system for Grandma, it would be better if it had a CD-RW drive instead of a regular CD drive. That way you easily back the system up for Grandma when you come to visit.
I did that for my parent's P133 system just this past weekend with the drive we got my Dad for Father's Day.
Jon Acheson
All opinions expressed herein are my own, and not those of my employers, who are appalled.
Only the novapcs mentions it is using a sis 730 mobo,
.doc, xls. or .ppt suffixes.
the wallmart pc uses probably a Integrated TRIDENT BLADE 2D/3D graphics video.
the wintermart probably uses a Integrated S3 Savage 4 video up to 32 mb ram.
Now tell me why cannot play quake 3 on either of these? The reviewer should have tried it! OK QII with 300 fps in 1600x1200FSAA is not possible but 25 FPS in 640x480 should work. (Is there a port for QIII?)
(Warning lots of copy and paste work below.)
tiger direct
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* AMD® Duronâ 1.0GHz Processor Learn More
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* 10GB Hard Drive
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* 3.5" (1.44MB) Floppy Disk Drive
* 56K Modem
* Onboard Premium Audio
* Premium Integrated Video
* PS/2 Keyboard/Mouse
* Monitor Sold Separately
wallmart
icrotel SYSMAR417 PC With Lycoris OS & AMD Duron 1.1GHz
$199.98
Availability: Usually takes 2 to 7 business days to process before shipping.
Shipping Cost: To see the shipping cost for this item, add it to your cart.
128 MB memory
10 GB hard drive
CD-ROM drive
Integrated 10/100 Ethernet connection
Lycoris Desktop/LX operating system (Linux-based)
Modem and floppy disk drive are not included
This item is currently available online only.
Key Features and Description
Note: Linux operating systems may not be compatible with some dial-up Internet services, such as AOL or Wal-Mart Connect. Microtel can only guarantee Linux-based OS compatibility with factory-installed components. Microtel will not be responsible for the installation and operation of third-party hardware or software used with its computers that have these operating systems.
The Linux-based operating system in these PCs is not compatible with any Microsoft Windows programs, however, it is great for basic operations such as email, Web browsing and instant messaging and can be easily upgraded for compatibility with Microsoft Office documents that have
* AMD Duron 1.1 GHz processor with 3DNow! technology
* 200 MHz frontside bus
* 128 MB SDRAM, expandable to 1 GB
* 133 MHz memory speed
* 10 GB Ultra-ATA 100 hard drive, 5400 rpm (total accessible capacity varies depending on operating environment)
* 52x CD-ROM drive
* Integrated video with up to 8 MB shared video memory
* Integrated AC '97 audio
* Integrated 10/100 Ethernet connection
* Mid ATX tower case (17.5"D x 7.5"W x 15"H)
* Available external drive bays: two 5.25-inch, one 3.5-inch internal
* 2 available PCI slots
* Serial port
* Parallel port
* Two USB 1.1 ports
* 104-key keyboard
* 2-button mouse with wheel
* Audio port (line-in, line-out, mic-in)
* Stereo speakers
* 1-year warranty, return to manufacturer
Software includes:
* GIMP digital image editor
* Word processor, spreadsheet, presentation maker, addressbook, calendar
* Contact manager and time management
* Digikam digital camera software supporting over 162 digital cameras
* Mozilla Web browser and email client
* XMMS MP3, Ogg Vorbis, WA
Just mentioning what I happened to notice. Conclusions, if any, are left to the reader.
"would you suggest that a motorist should at least know how to replace a broken timing belt"
I suggested nothing of that sort. I merely opined that Joe ServicePack must, in his own interest, learn that Linux is GPL'd code, free for inspection and modification, that it's much superior to Windows XYZ in elegance and design, that it's free from viruses, that the SCO FUD is rubbish, that copying Linux CDs is not a guilty act, that sharing Linux and associated knowledge is not analagous to sharing music (as SCO implies) etc. etc.
Until Joe stops believing the bad press and 'informed' opinions such as yours, he can't overcome the first crucial hurdle to start using Linux. And it is unreasonable to expect Linux or GNU to evangelise, educate, enlighten, aggressively market, promote or teach Joe. It isn't elitism, merely practical wisdom.
If you keep throwing chairs, one day you'll break windows....
Walmart had a Lycoris OS pc for. $199 .
Some of the Microtel systems come with an MSI 6390 board . The MSI Metis barebones ( $138 at Newegg also uses this board and I have used these boards extensively due to their tight integration, small form factor, high degree of reliability and stability.
... Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just Powers from the Consent of the Governed...
I just love competing with people who feel they have to decide whether their customers deserve their product. Also those who are convinced that convenience is an impossible dream.
No doubt /.'ers are quite familiar with Lindows and Linux. Considering the article ran in the Washington Post, albeit online, I am a little surprised more emphasis wasn't placed on the fact that the OS was not any type of Windows product, and, if Joe/Jane Sixpack were to buy one thinking he or she could run M$ stuff on a $200 machine, he or she would likely be sorely disappointed.
I am a big fan of Walmart et al making this move, but I don't expect it to be a big hit just yet with the average Redmondite.
If you love something, let it go. If it comes back to you, hump its leg.
The specs mentioned on these PCs include a 1.1GHz CPU, 128MB of games, a 3GB "old slow laptop" HD, and you think that a GeForce 4 will make it good for games??? How many games run on Linux/Lindows? Where can I buy them? If I go into an EB, what games run on Linux?
Being Windows free means that 99.9% of consumer software won't run on it. Having good USB support is critical to using the computer for anything with external devices. If I am Joe 6 Pack and I go to CompUSA and buy a NEW $200 digital camera, then I am screwed if the camera doesn't have Linux drivers. If I get one that's cheaper than that, I am even MORE screwed (how many geeks do you know that buy a < 1MP camera and write drivers for Linux).
I'm not asking about do-it-yourself computer nerds with 10 years of Linux experience, I'm asking about normal people who are intimidated by what they don't understand. Most smart teenagers can wrap their head around Linux, but given the choice between Linux on a REALLY cheap PC and Windows on all their school computers and their friends computers, which do you think they're going to have a more positive experience with?
Also, I'm sure that these PCs come with a CD-ROM, but do they come with CD-RW? How similar to Windows is the OS? When I insert a blank CD ready to burn, what happens? Can I drag and drop to manage my files? Is there a manual? Help? Support? Microsoft Windows has a "Help and Support" section built in to the start menu, and step-by-step help instructions for doing just about anything tricky for a typical PC user. Most Linux software is aimed squarely at the do-it-yourselfer-with-the-CLI.
I'm not trying to dis the system as non-functional. I'm simply saying that for the low end computer user, it's going to be a real struggle to use when anything new comes out, and 99.9% of software that a consumer will want to run only runs on Windows. The other .1% is obscure and hard to find. $89 for Windows XP isn't unreasonable. A $150 pile of hardware will seem like a 5 year old computer when compared to a $400 computer with decent specs in today's market. Imagine what that computer will be able to do in 2-5 years.
My best home PC is an 850MHz Athlon with 512MB RAM, 120GB HD, USB2+Firewire, a GeForce 2 card, and it runs Windows XP Pro/Office XP Pro. The hardware cost about $1000 2 years ago. That's a little more than $1 per day that I've gotten out of it. Imagine that software costs an additional $1000 for Office XP, Windows XP, and Photoshop 7. I've spend about $2 per day on this computer over the last 2 years, and over the course of the 5 year lifetime of the computer, it will be averaged to about $0.50 per day.
The nice thing about this computer is that when Windows XP detects a new device, it either installs the driver from the Microsoft driver cache/horde somewhere, or pops up a window to help you find the driver. In my experience, I only need drivers for new, exotic devices like my $1500 Digital SLR. The other devices like my new USB2/Firewire PCI card and the CF card reader that attaches to it just work. All you see is a little balloon in the corner notify you that Windows found the driver and you can now use your device.
I very rarely need to install the floppy or CD that came with the new hardware, but even if I did I can be confident that the CD works with my Windows computer as long as the CD says Windows (XP) somewhere on it, which all of the CDs that come with my hardware do. Many of these also supports Mac OS. I haven't purchased a single device which comes with any support for Lindows, or Linux, or BSD.
Lindows is just not as big of
if people don't "understand" their cars, Pep boys et all are sure in for a huge wakeup call.
It boils down to this: learn things and save money (and get smarter as a side bonus)
The truth about Led Zep should never be told on
I just installed Red Hat 9.0 and I was shocked that it didn't install the correct drivers for my NVidia video card. Sure, 2D worked okay but it didn't bother to install any 3D acceleration so I had to download drivers myself and edit X configuration files manually. The average user wouldn't be able to figure this out.
This isn't red hat's fault, this is Nvidia's fault. Blame the card manufacturer, and be impressed by the quality of the support it did have out of the box. Remember the drivers in question have been developed without help from Nvidia who keeps the specs needed to write drivers to themselves.
Of course, simply because it's in the manual doesn't mean the manual entry really answers the question, or that it makes any damn sense. Many times I've helped users simply be rephrasing what is in the manual (that they've already looked at) and translating it to english.
Manuals try to pack a lot of information into a little space (mainly because there is a lot to document, the things being documented generally don't lend themselves to it, and most of those doing the documenting don't want to do any more typing than they have to.) so generally this isn't very readable to your average user.