Slashdot Mirror
Steve Jobs And Jeff Bezos Meet The Segway
deadwood writes "Ever wanted to know what Steve Jobs and Jeff Bezos really thought about the Segway the first time he saw it? At the Harvard Business School site, there's an excerpt from the new book 'Code Name Ginger', giving a recounting of the Apple and Amazon bosses' first impressions of the device. Steve Jobs' gut reaction, quoted in the article: 'I think it sucks!'"
Dean Kamen took a big chance inviting Jeff Bezos, he's lucky Bezos didn't run out and try to patent the idea.
Mike
Let's hope they rode it better than you-know-who.
The coolest voice ever.
(I agree with Jobs, btw.)
sulli
RTFJ.
I won't argue the above remark. Without a doubt it is the truth.
<rant>
But man can he act like an arrogant prick!
I love the products his company makes, and I respect his opinions, but the man needs some serious lessons in humility and respect for others. Servant leadership, lead by serving and showing others, not just by blasting them for being wrong.
</rant>
Okay then.
Karma: Chameleon (mostly due to the fact that you come and go).
this week i reach 1,000 miles on the segway ht. i really like mine.
the segway ht fits my travel needs pretty well, i don't think it's for everyone-- but it's worked out okay for me. i run, walk, ride a bike, take cars but most of my travel is via a segway...i wrote it up, here's the travel log so far:
http://www.bookofseg.com/100days/
it didn't replace walking, i walk, cycle and jog. the segway replaced my car. i don't think it can do that for everyone, but it did for me.
steve jobs said "i think [the design] sucks. its shape is not innovative, it's not elegant and it doesnâ(TM)t feel anthropomorphic". it's very functional and the desgin (in my opinion) is good for version 1 of a product, i'm looking forward to the new models which are smaller, lighter with greater range.
cheers,
pt
They think something about an object, great for them. What's next? Uproar in the slashdot community because Steve Jobs farted? This is supposed to be a new site (or at least that's what I keep telling myself), not some sort of weird online tabloid for the geek culture.
Hate me!
A close friend of Jobs overheard him say:
"This is just like a Windows PC. It moves rather slowly, and at any moment you might get dumped off"
Don't blame Durga. I voted for Centauri.
you probably saw this
http://www.gothamist.com/archive/002674.php
Disco Stu was talkin' to you.
'It think it sucks!'
I'm impressed. I didn't realize the thing was both sentient, and self-loathing.
saying "Yeah it sucks man!!!"
/. Personnaly, I am excited, but as an AC will undoubtedly tell me soon, who cares what I think.
Maybe its not the greatest thing ever (I don't know, never seen one in person), but for a brand new product that is not a ripoff I think its doing pretty well. How great was MacOs 1.0 compared to OSX? Not very good at all, but its a starting point, the initial idea is out there, and basically it works. Now its time to expand and make it better.
Everyone is always ranting on here about how nothing is innovative anymore, and that all of these laws stifle innovation, and when something that is actually innovative finally comes out, here come the naysayers. I guess I should expect this from
Great Linux Site
Not the idea itself.
he didn't turn it on, that's all.
the segway without being powered on it much like standing on a log with platform stuck to it. the prez needed to step off of it. we've all fallen off bikes, tripped, etc...usually we don't have people taking our pictures.
Mr. Jobs doesn't like it because it's not "iSegway". It needs to have nice shapely plastic bumpers that are see-through, so you can see the nice engine doing it's thing. And the gyros need to light up when they work. When the iSegway stops it also needs to play a very warm "DING" tune, something that's fuzzy and nice like "You've Got Mail", but maybe more like "You've just stopped".
It's all about looks, people.
Never noticed this happening before.. There is a typo on the article synapsis on the front page, but not on the article page itself (ie if you click Read More).
:-\
From the front page:
Steve Jobs' gut reaction, quoted in the article: 'It think it sucks!'"
From the article page:
Steve Jobs' gut reaction, quoted in the article: 'I think it sucks!'"
Is someone really manually retyping these twice?
I hope, if so, that Slashdot has at least employed a Cadre of Elite Geese to do this... Oh yea it says right here that they have.
THE MAGIC WORDS ARE SQUEAMISH OSSIFRAGE
After a while, Steve gets up and starts to look around. He looks at the framed dollar bill on the wall and notes that the bar opened in 1987 (long after his Macintosh computer came out.
He goes over to the windows, and verifies that they can be opened and closed, and also minimized (with the use of shades). Next, he looks behind a table and finds a mouse. It is only after he finds the trashcan behind the bar that he decides to sue the bar owner for infringment of his GUI patents.
Don't blame Durga. I voted for Centauri.
Jeff Bezos tries to patent a method of riding the segway where the rider does not fall off.
There is no reasonable defense against an idiot with an agenda
:wq
IT SUCKS. Someone needs to shoot the person who made those pieces of crap. First off, they don't have anything to make them visible in the evening hours (reflectors/lights). Combine that with being totally quiet and you have an accident waiting to happen. I almost got run over by one of them on the way to the bar the other day. I went to step out from the sidewalk on to the street and one comes zooming out in front of me. It's large footprint made every car that had to pass it move into the oncoming lane of traffic (totally in the oncoming lane if the segway had to pass a parked car). I understand that it has some cool technology, but they are an annoyance to the drivers and pedestrians that have to deal with them.
when all is said and done, weren't the problems actually legitimate stumbling blocks for Ginger?
people haven't bought them, they were overpriced, and they don't look that impressive.
it's a $X,000 scooter, at least that's what it looks like.
a Viper is just another really big engine, but put it in the right body....
Stepping onto the Segway with it off is no difficult feat. It has two modes, only one of which will balance you. If you want to give it to somebody, you put it into the non-balance mode (Power Assist Mode). If you put your foot on the platform and push it upright, it'll come on, and you step on it, and off you go.
However, if you wait too long, it'll shut off, and when you step up, it won't turn on and you fall on your face. That's almost certainly what happened. (It's happened to me)
-twb
If I had a bunch of pain-in-the-ass investors who were likely to tear apart my presentation then I would try to keep them as-involved in the process as possible, rather than leaving so much to a single meeting where they can rip you to shreads.
In this situation, potential investors have every right to be critical of a product. After all, it's their money right? Additionally from an academic perspective, this sort of thing is kind of like a thesis defense where it is your committee's job to be critical, ask the hard questions and get you to think about your work and it's applicability. But again, a dissertation defense, like a product into to investors needs to have the presenter maintain control of the meeting.
There is no excuse for bad manners in any setting,
This is true, but I suspect that Jobs had spent more than a little time and effort analyzing this product. Given that he would be a potential investor, he should have some say in how the product is manufactured and distributed. Kamen might have done well to listen to him a little more carefully as the points he raised were valid, especially with people reverse engineering. After all, the rest of the computer industry has been copying Apple Computer for years right?
Additionally, people like Jobs are efficient and can get things done with a modicum of effort through established workflows and relationships. So, when it is obvious that someone else (and a potential business partner no less) is screwing up, it is hard to be patient especially when you can see the shortcomings of the proposal.
Visit Jonesblog and say hello.
Jobs said the design sucked. Who knows what it looked like back then? He's talking about the shape, the way it looks. I'd say the Segway looks pretty cool right now. Chances are that what Kamen put together out of cardboard boxes was a crude prototype. They probably did get a design firm involved to finalize the shape and appearance of the device. Jobs is right, a good industrial design firm can produce devices that look like works of art.
Steve Jobs is referring to the appearance of the Segway. The article summary misquotes this quite deceptively.
What has *science* done?!? -- Dr. Weird (ATHF)
...a skinny Marvin, the depressed andriod?
Do not read this sig.
-----
Jobs: Will it come with Firewire?
Dean: Um... Firewire? Why would it--?
Jobs: Will it come with Firewire? Will it?
Dean: I don't understand what you're--
Jobs: You really ought to license Firewire from us and slap a logo on this thing and that's all there is to it.
Dean: But what on earth would people want--?
Jobs: Why would they not want the the most reliable, insanely fast connectivity solution built in to this revolutionary device? How will they sync their Palms and iPods to this? Have you thought about that?
Dean: That's ridiculous. I don't--
Jobs: Okay. Nevermind. This sucks.
------
--Rick "If it isn't broken, take it apart and find out why."
Partly, explained Tim, because giving our code to someone else would be a great risk. Not a good reason, in Jobs's view, because the code could easily be reverse-engineered. No it couldn't, said Tim. Could, said Jobs.
That was pretty funny to me. Is this a guy who's been bitten by the reverse-engineering phenomenon before, do you think?
And people wonder why Apple gets testy about Aqua themes... I'd be testy to, if I was the victim of one of the biggest UI ripoffs in history. (I'm not sayin' he's right.. I'm just sayin'.)
If Jesus wants me it knows where to find me.
Its interesting to get unfiltered Steveness like this. For those decrying his rudeness... where have you been? He has been like this from the beginning.
The important thing is he was giving them the unvarnished truth. His insightfulness was genuine- he saw directly to the heart of the issues.
The insiders were obviously much too close to things, too sure of themselves. They had insulated themselves for too long- they would have benefitted much more if they had brought outsiders like Jobs and Bezos' much earlier in the process.
His rejection of the pleasantries and Powerpoint crap was the essential "Don't waste my time" of someone who actually values their time. He has two companies to run- he doesn't need to waste time watching somneone click through a stupid time-wasting presentation.
I am not like him at all- much too polite in real life. But he sure as hell makes sure things happen and he makes real products that people will pay premium dollars for. They should have paid even closer attention to what he said than they did.
Thanks Steve! Now I have a whole new goal for when I present my next project pitch to the captains and commanders I work with!
"Ask not what your country can do for you." --John F. Kennedy
http://www.woz.org/seg/ - Steve Wozniak, the *brains* behind Apple, seems a lot more Segway enamoured.
Seriously, this guy pops up everytime there's a segway article.
How much do they pay you? Please tell me they pay you.
-- taking over the world, we are.
i'm surprised by jobs' comments but i shouldn't be. his hardlined stance and staunch trenching of ideas is exactlly why he was fired in the 80s but his reaction toward the segway screams what he's doing at apple. after reading the article, doesn't it suggest that he is more of a force at Apple in pushing the UI, business strategy, product/manufacturing strategy than anyone else? Its clear that Jobs respects designers ("They'll give you stuff that will make you shit in your pants...") and it seems like Jobs hands ideas off to designers to give him something he doesn't know he wants (iMac, iPod UI, translucent plastics).
considering everything that went wrong with the Segway launch (how many people have ACTUALLY seen a ginger in person?) its possible to say that Jobs was partially right. the article talks about the ginger but it screams the way Jobs thinks and approaches a problem. the launch of ginger is interesting but give me a book about Jobs rants from the past 8 years and I'll shell out for that. Not to mention the Pixar vs Disney negotiations... (Disney is going to get ownned)
just ranting...
doesn't it make you wonder about WWDC being Apple's internal code for 'We Will Delight Crowds'?
That BETTER get a +5 Funny.
Any sufficiently well-organized Government is indistinguishable from bullshit.
His daughter pushed him.
Any sufficiently well-organized Government is indistinguishable from bullshit.
i don't get paid anything, i don't work with or for segway in any way (read my site) i'm just someone who bought a segway and writes about my experiences with it.
it does seem i'm the only person who has a segway that reads slashot and is willing to post (and get all sorts of nasty comments and insults). have at it.
My mind is revolting against itself! Who or what am I supposed to like?
P.S. Please, someone, tell me what I can do on a Segway that I cannot do on a bicycle.
We all stand on the shoulders of giants. Anyone who owns a business not built on other people's innovations isn't likely to be selling anything of worth...
"Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth than lies."
>>> "Heh. Yeah, and Apple has what percent of market share?"
You can't visit a popular technology-oriented discussion board these days without hearing the oft-misconceived phrase, "Apple has 5% of the market and Windows has 95%.
There are two things wrong with this statement, the first being that if Apple has five, Windows must have 95. We as users of alternative operating systems know this not to be the case. Of course, a considerable number of desktop PCs do not bear the Windows logo.
The second problem is the implication that "market-share" can be used interchangeably with "installed-base." When most people use the word "market-share", what they really mean is "installed-base."
For example, while Apple's Macintosh market-share may be 3 percent, its installed-base is approximately 10 to 12 percent of the computing industry, a figure that's roughly similar to that of Linux based PCs.
When these figures are coupled with the remaining alternative operating systems on the market, Windows installed-base works out to be somewhere in the way of 80 percent -- a far cry from the 95 figure that is often touted.
So how does market-share play into the picture you ask?
Market-share is determined by quarterly or annual sales figures. The problem with market-share statistics is that it implies that all computers retain the same level of usability over time. It assumes that once a computer is sold, it will retain its productivity status for as long as its parts continue to function.
Unfortunately, usability statistics and replacement purchasing habits of consumers vary significantly between platforms thus causing the market-share figure to look skewed.
Linux users (for example) are known to keep aging computer hardware useful long after it was left for dead by its former Windows using owner. The open source community consistently manages to squeeze every last ounce of processing power from even the most aged hardware available.
Similarly, Mac users are known to keep their computers as primary productivity tools until the gears fall off. This is really a testament to the quality that Apple incorporated into its hardware and software over the years.
Unfortunately, the incorporation of quality into these platform's coding efforts will only fuel the notion that they are far less popular as what they are as long as market-share is the most commonly used gauge to determine platform popularity.
Because the Linux operating system's distribution model isn't tied directly to sales, it will never get a truly accurate gauge as long as market-share is touted over installed-base.
Apple on the other hand, may be in a better situation for the foreseeable future.
As we all know, the troubled economy has caused desktop PC purchases to fall to an all time low. This fact may actually work to Apple's advantage.
Everything Apple has been working toward pivots on the release of OS X running on next generation hardware.
Apple is scheduled to release next generation professional hardware in the coming weeks. The release of this hardware, when coupled with Apple's Panther operating system starts the completion of Steve Jobs' rebuilding of Apple.
It's this combination, which the computer using populace has been waiting for, many of which have said that they've been holding back their computer purchases for Apple to get the time table right.
This sudden sales windfall will occur in parallel with the PC industry's slow sales rate, which means that as long as the semi-misleading market-share statistic continues to be touted; Apple's percentage will likely jump from its current 3 percent status to double-digit growth, (somewhere in the 12 percent range) in as few as 6-9 months.
Remember, marketshare for any given company is calculated in relation to the sales of its competators. This will cause Apple's market share to make an even larger spike considering the fact that each individual PC manufacturer's sales wont be there to counter Apple's.
Of course, if the technology spinmeisters try to turn the table and tout installed-base (as they should have all along), Apple's current 12 percent status is covered there too.
When I read the account of the meeting, my impression of Steve Jobs was similar to that of what I have received of other effective senior executives of large companies.
1. He is a very quick study and he came in prepared. It was a bit strange that he had notes written on his hand but he knew what he wanted to say.
2. He had an agenda. He clearly didn't like the design and had issues with the lack of an introduction plan and the idea to manufacture on their own.
3. He's been around the block and part of his questions and statements are really tests to see how well everybody is prepared. I'm sure if anybody knows how quickly something could be copied, it would be Jobs.
4. It's interesting to me to hear that people think that he is an arrogant prick - I guess I've worked with a lot of them over the years.
From my experience with this type of executive (as well as my own experiences over the years), what I walked away from this article is that Kamen and the company that he produced aren't in the league they need to be for the product to be a success. They clearly weren't prepared for businessmen of the calibre Bezos and Jobs.
This article probably explains to me why the Segway hasn't been a great success - instead of Kamen, who's a great product idea man, they needed some kind of arrogant prick like Jobs to control the project.
myke
Mimetics Inc. Twitter
The cat's been let out of the bag and people are going to buy a book about the development of a scooter?
.25 Mach. Well, not me really, but a ton of other people did:)
This product has been the biggest letdown since the year 2000. I waited, white-knuckled and anxious, for way too long in hopes that I'd be able to zip across the countryside 40 feet in the air and at
The segway is an excellent example of what happens when you don't give out enough details concerning a product and act in extreme secrecy all to protect your whiz-bang idea of a $5000 scooter.....or SCO unix source code...
Seeing as how I am the only apple user, and one of three programmers, for a company that writes software for use under .NET, I'd have to say that everything you said in your conceit is absolutely untrue. I am able to access everything on the networks and use every program I need to use. My PC is not twice as fast as the laptop nor is it twice as expensive...the laptop is slower, but only when you don't take into account my workflow, which is significantly faster on the laptop. And because my mac apps don't crash, I never lose time RETYPING things like that hottie Ellen Feiss.
And your conceit fails to account for the fact that the auto world DOES exactly what you said it does. The Ford F-150 is twice the price and slower than the Focus ZX. "But you can't compare the two...they're used for different things!" Aha. Now you're getting it, my little troll.
Hey freaks: now you're ju
Job's comments were spot-on. He was blunt and rude so that they would listen to his points and they were really lucky to get advice from someone with Job's experience, and they should have listened instead of getting irritated and trying to get back to their meeting agenda. Agendas should be used to help start a discussion, not to stop it!
The account made the Segway people sound like amateurs who suddenly found themselves playing in the major leagues. Jobs was doing them a favor by playing the role of a grizzled old coach and being very blunt in trying to talk them out of doing some stupid things.
I wish I could get Steve Jobs to stay up all night thinking about my new product! They should've listened more to what he had to say.
There are 10 types of people in this world, those who can count in binary and those who can't.
The following was related to me by my co-worker Eric, who was the first American employed at Apple Japan:
Shortly after Eric arrived in Japan in the early 80's, he accompanied Steve Jobs on a visit to Canon. Cannon recently introduced a desktop copier which intrigued Steve Jobs. At the meeting Steve Jobs challenged the Canon execs and engineers to design a smaller laser printer the same way they were able to shrink the size of a copier.
In those days a laser printer was about the size of a washing machine or a large business copy machine. The only laser printers available were floor models only; nothing you could put on a desktop.
One year later Steve Jobs was invited back to Canon in Japan to see the results of his challenge. Eric went with Steve, a female translator who worked for Apple Japan, and a Japanese manager working for Apple. Steve Jobs and Eric were the only Americans there at the meeting, and only the Apple employees spoke English; none of the Canon people did. All communication from Steve Jobs to the Canon people were done via the translator.
When they got to Canon, a roomful of proud, beaming Canon engineers and managers presented Steve Jobs with their 'minaturized' laser printer - no longer the size of an American washing machine, just perhaps the size of a Japanese washing machine. Just the same it was not the desktop model that Steve Jobs envisioned.
When the interpreter relayed the question from the Canon folks asking what he thought of the their new laser printer, she really squirmed when Jobs said "Tell them it is a piece of shit!"
We all stand on the shoulders of giants.
... and Bezos has the patent on shoulder pads.
Tuus crepidae innexilis sunt.
Steve Jobs heard about the work going on at PARC and offered 100 000 Apple shares in exchange for a demonstration of their work. Some of the PARC people (notably Adele Goldberg) were very unhappy to show Apple what they were doing, but Xerox said 'do it.'
They did it.
Jobs saw the Smalltalk environment, the mouse, pop-up windows, pull-down menus and the rest. So yes, he saw the inspiration for Macintosh windowing, but the Mac interface and the Xerox interfaces are different beasts entirely.
Oh and Xerox did very nicely out of those shares.
Best wishes,
Mike.
Actually, Jobs LOVED it and begged to be involved in the project. The "it sucks" quote came after he had been familiar with the device for months, and was referring specifically to the aesthetic design of the latest version that the team was working on, not the Segway in general.
In any case, I think that Jobs' intense questioning proves that he really was engaged with the product; he treated it just as he would anything Apple designed, and insisted that it hold to the same rigorous standards. That his fears turned out to be well-founded suggests that, no matter how his worries were couched (he does seem to have a penchant for incontinence as metaphor, doesn't he?), his call for a solid business plan, a real launch strategy, and the tripartite mantra of "innovation, elegant and anthropomorphism" would have been well-heeded.
"Freedom is kind of a hobby with me, and I have disposable income that I'll spend to find out how to get people more."
Perhaps if you made the occasional post regarding Microsoft's terrible plague on society or how your children couldn't eat solid foods until you discovered Linux your posts would carry more influence and credibility. Or you could put up a website detailing how you case-modded your Seqway to include transparent panels and flashing neon lights. Your choice.
--
mcp.kaaos
It goes from God, to Jerry, to me.
What I love about the way brandido wrote it was:
But that isn't true. He had seen Ginger a day earlier and had time to reflect on the whole thing. He thought it was solid, but lacked a look that people would be drawn to. The quote should have had this additional thought added to it But instead he wanted to go for the shock value. Somehow this appearing on
It is human nature to take shortcuts in thinking.