Sony Launches 2 New "Video" Clie Models

boss_ton writes "Sony is launching its newest Clie handhelds(NX80V, NX73V ), a combination personal video player and personal digital assistant, to the United States.Its already a huge hit in Japan. Amazon is reporting the launch date as July 11th. The NX80V is priced at $600. Here's the scoop on CNet. The official product page is here."

Comments

A huge hit in japan?

[Anonymous Coward]

A little electrogadget popular in Japan? I am shocked.

Re:A huge hit in japan?

[waspleg]

no, a little electrogadet CREATED in Japan for the Japanese.. and oh yea.. later we might throw the US dog a bone since they have money we might be able to take from them...

Re:A huge hit in japan?

[sleeper0]

I am trying to figure out how a player with 32MB of memory and no hard drive or cd drive or dvd drive is any kind of "personal video player" and yes i read the articles none of the journalists appear to have done anything but reformatted the press releases

Re:A huge hit in japan?

[Anonymous Coward]

Sorry dude, it's called capitalism. Suck it up.

Re:A huge hit in japan?

[Enfors]

It has a memory stick slot, which supports Memory Stick Pro, meaning it can store 1 GB of MP3s and videos.

Why is Japan so far ahead??

[marcushnk]

Does anyone know why Japan is always so far ahead of the rest of the world in technology??

Its really irritating.

Re:Why is Japan so far ahead??

[su-geek]

I went there in January and of course went to akihabara (electric town). In Japan they limit the time that a retailer can sell products. Due to this they can only sell the newest products. They also do not like to buy used products as much as people in the US.

Re:Why is Japan so far ahead??

[marcushnk]

[quote] In Japan they limit the time that a retailer can sell products. [/quote]

hmmm interesting tactic.. Maybe that explains why their economy is "burnt out"..

Re:Why is Japan so far ahead??

[Professor D]

"Digital Retailer Management"?

Huh.

Re:Why is Japan so far ahead??

[beatniklew]

Q: Why is Japan so much more advanced than the U.S. and other 1st world nations? A: Most other 1st world nations have to put large portions of their economies towards supporting and maintaining a military. Since WWII, Japan has not been allowed greater than a 1000 person National Guard; and is otherwise protected by the US's armed forces. This has many effects. One is more money to spend on technological R&D. Another is more money to spend on education, which leads to a smarter population capable of making huge technology leaps. Furthermore, the Japanese have other cultural factors that contribute alongside these economic factors to create an environment suited very well for developing bleeding edge technology.

Re:Why is Japan so far ahead??

[BJH]

You might want to recheck your sources - Japan's military spending on the Self Defense Force is second only to China out of the Asian countries. It's most certainly not "a 1000 person National Guard".

(If you want hard figures, according to the SDF's page, the budget for military spending for this year was 4,926,500,000,000 yen, which at the current exchange rate is 41,852,858,368 US dollars - not exactly peanuts.)

Re:Why is Japan so far ahead??

[marcushnk]

holy cow.. I didn't know that..

Thanks

Re:Why is Japan so far ahead??

[djupedal]

Their need to live in an otherwise confined environment results in high efficiency products.

Their natural inclination to control the world around them (bonsai, anyone?) leads them to always push the envelope.

As my Japanese manager Mori-san used to tell me, years ago, whenever someone lamentedly pointed out how often Americans sit around in meetings....While they talk...we build..

Re:Why is Japan so far ahead??

[BJH]

HAHAHA.

Please try turning up at a meeting at my (previous) company.
We used to go from 9am to 6pm, nattering on and on and on about nothing very much. We already knew what the outcome would be - the manager was doing it only because he felt it helped impress everybody (not in the meeting) with how 'hands-on' he was.

Your manager was just making another pointless generalization, of which there are already far too many about the Japanese.

Re:Why is Japan so far ahead??

[Slurpee]

(If you want hard figures, according to the SDF's page, the budget for military spending for this year was 4,926,500,000,000 yen, which at the current exchange rate is 41,852,858,368 US dollars - not exactly peanuts.)


holy cow, that means each of the soldiers in the 1000 person national guard gets paid $40 million each! say $1 million for equipment and support, and they are some pretty well paid soldiers!

now *thats* a defense force I'd like to be part of!

Re:Why is Japan so far ahead??

[SpikeSpiff]

Why is the US so far ahead in backyard BBQ and swimming pool technology?

Relative cost. Gadgets are relatively cheaper, compared to housing, transportation, and cars.

You can see the same effect in NYC. Why do secretaries buy Prada? If they spent the money on housing in a normal city, they could afford a house. If they spend that money on their apt in NYC, they move up from a 350 to a 375 sq ft studio.

Geography and culture dictate dense cities in Japan, so people will tend to spend relatively more on gadgets and less on housing and cars.

Re:Why is Japan so far ahead??

[djupedal]

huh? My Japanese manager was "just making another pointless generalization, of which there are already far too many about the Japanese."

Drop the other shoe, will you please? I don't get it yet, sorry.

Re:Why is Japan so far ahead??

[BJH]

Sorry, I should have been clearer - there are a lot of (meaningless) generalizations made on both the Japanese and non-Japanese sides of the fence.

(I probably should have mentioned that the company I worked for was a Japanese company in Japan, too...)

Re:Why is Japan so far ahead??

[SpikeSpiff]

Er, troll?

Constitutionally, Japan spends 1% of GDP (40.7 Billion - CIA Fact Book) on defense. 1% of a very big number is still a very big number.

The other question is the role of the military in driving technology. It is not clear that defense spending is a technology negative. Arpanet. More importantly, many new technology companies, in all sorts of boring areas like glue technology and stronger screws get their starts from DARPA grants, not to mention OpenBSD (now I'm trolling). Boeing gets a huge effective development subsidy from defense spending. Examples are all around of military demands driving technology improvements, just as the military benefits from commercial technology.

Re:Why is Japan so far ahead??

[evilviper]

You act like the posession of technology is a good thing... I find a populous that spends large ammounts of their money on a useless gadget to be a huge step backwards.

Now, to answer your question, they have more money (because many work much longer hours than people in other countries), and devices are cheaper, partly because they don't have far to go to get to the people, and their lack of imports means the money they spend stays in the country (and they import a great deal, so new money in comming in to Japan as well).

Re:Why is Japan so far ahead??

[djupedal]

I agree.

As well, there are a significant number of seemingly casual generalizations (both sides) that hit the mark, so in the end, they tend to wash each other out :)

Re:Why is Japan so far ahead??

[BJH]

As well, there are a significant number of seemingly casual generalizations (both sides) that hit the mark, so in the end, they tend to wash each other out :)

Well, now you're generalizing ;)

Re:Why is Japan so far ahead??

[TuxTWAP]

For several years in the early 90s before their economy tanked, Japan had the second largest defense budget in the world. The Japanese F-16s and their equivalent of the Aegis cruiser are markedly better than what we operate. They may not be battle-tested, but I'd hate to be the force that goes up against them.

Re:Why is Japan so far ahead??

[ccmay]

Q: Why is Japan so much more advanced than the U.S. and other 1st world nations?

You are begging the question here, assuming as true that which you wish to prove.

In some regards Japan is more advanced (robots, miniaturized consumer electronics, catering to every bizarre sexual fetish.) In other fields it is not (stealth aircraft, computer operating systems, GPS.)

Since WWII, Japan has not been allowed greater than a 1000 person National Guard

This is complete rubbish. The SDF is an army in all but name and far larger than 1000 men, although rather lacking in airlift and heavy weapons capability.

and is otherwise protected by the US's armed forces.

True. Damn freeloaders. But better that, than reviving the Greater East Asian Co-Prosperity Sphere.

This has many effects. One is more money to spend on technological R&D.

Japan's government has poured billions down the R & D rathole, trying to choose technology winners in advance and shape their development. Remember fifth-generation computing? Most of this money is wasted, or at best can be described as subsidies for non-competitive but politically connected corporations.

Another is more money to spend on education, which leads to a smarter population capable of making huge technology leaps.

Much of the extra time spent on education in Japan is devoted to learning the 10,000 (or is it 25,000?) ideographic characters that an educated Japanese must know. We, on the other hand, learn our alphabet in first grade and add modest increments of orthography up to about sixth grade, after which it ceases to be taught at all.

Moreover, the Japanese educational milieu is brutally suppressive of creative thinking and independence. Regimented rote learning begins in early childhood and continues through the high school years, suppplemented by "cram schools" to prepare for the rigorous but irrelevant college entrance examinations. Once in college, students snooze through four years of studies. Even the mighty Todai is a joke compared to any second-tier research university in America, much less Harvard or Cal Tech.

After college, the salaryman goes to work in a big company doing mind-numbing work in a rigid hierarchy, churning out well-made but derivative consumer goods. Or he stays in academia where the hierarchy is, if anything, even worse. Maybe after he has been a professor's dogsbody for fifteen years he can get his name on a paper, or maybe not, if the lab director doesn't like him.

In truth, you could hardly imagine a system that would stifle independent thought more effectively. If the Japanese succeed in scientific endeavors like the blue LED, it is in spite of their educational system rather than because of it. And most of the true scientific breakthroughs seem still to come from us hairy gai-jin barbarians; the reams of patents the Japanese file are typically concerned with minor variations on trivial matters like building a better dildo or toilet.

As a final note, I have seen the inside of a Japanese classroom. It is spartan to a degree that would not be believed in even a poor neighborhood in the US. I guarantee you that we spend more per student per year in this country, especially in big-city systems where teaching and learning are secondary to providing jobs for otherwise unemployable union thugs and political hacks.

Furthermore, the Japanese have other cultural factors that contribute alongside these economic factors to create an environment suited very well for developing bleeding edge technology.

Since you brought it up-- I assume what you are likely referring to is the racial and social strictures that would boggle the mind of most young Americans.

The Japanese are the most racist people on earth, by a wide margin. Koreans whose families have lived in Japan for centuries are denied citizenship and barely tole

Re:Why is Japan so far ahead??

[djupedal]

hehehehe - shogu-nai

Re:Why is Japan so far ahead??

[tetro]

necessity is the reason. When people have no room (have you seen the avg. apartment?) you gotta accommodate those limitations. That's why miniturization and electronics with various uses are so popular. Landlines are hard a little more expensive, so mobile phones are the perfect solutions. In the U.S., we have way more space than they do so we don't need to have those everything in one gadgets. The truth is Japan is ahead of the world when it comes to toys. In terms of important innovations, it's on par with most major countries.

Re:Why is Japan so far ahead??

[MidnightBrewer]

This is after you subtracted out equipment procurement and maintenance, right? Not to mention training, logistical costs, etc...

Re:Why is Japan so far ahead??

[Zemran]

Does anyone know why Japan is always so far ahead of the rest of the world in technology??

How is such an innocuous comment knocked down as flamebait? Which moron is so insecure that they feel threatened by a simple question like this? I admire Japan for their techology and do not see how a question about 'why the situation has arisen' is flamebait. Racist responses would be flamebait but a serious discusion about how the situation arose would be relative to the topic.

Japan has taken a lead (I think they are about to lose it) in the technology markets. They used to provide cheap labour (not any more) and they work hard (something we are no longer able to do in the west. They have earned our respect.

Re:Why is Japan so far ahead??

[mandalayx]

word. buying liabilities may be hazardous to your financial health..

Re:Why is Japan so far ahead??

[marcushnk]

heh thanks

I think it was "flamebaited" for the "its irritating" comment.. which in hind site I could have left out.. :-P

Re:Why is Japan so far ahead??

[tcopeland]

Beautiful. ccmay, may your beard grow long and full (or some other Lord of the Rings'ish blessing) for your excellent, well-reasoned posts. I just read thru your posting history and was filled with glee as I watched you fight the good fight.

Props,

Tom

Re:Why is Japan so far ahead??

[Anonymous Coward]

One nit: there's only 6,000+ total kanji in use, and knowing 2,000+ will work for the average joe.

I'd argue the hours we spend in class lurning hough two spel are od langwadge is more time spent drilling the kanji in japanese schools.

Re:Why is Japan so far ahead??

[andrewleung]

umm... why is even SofMap even a major retailer here with all the others (loax, Tzone, tsukumo, bic camera, yodobashi, sakuraya, etc.)?! They have hotter chicks dishing out flyers? Not really, well, maybe some. :-)

SofMap STARTED in used equipment... the CEO learned this from selling used pianos here... it's the only reason why one should goto akihabara instead of shinjuku, shibuya or all the other shopping areas with hotter chicks.

Re:Why is Japan so far ahead??

[S.I.O.]

As a student of the Japanese language I must say that although learning kanjis is extremely time consuming it's definitely not a waste of time. Japanese (and Chinese) calligraphy is a wonderful art, and the more kanjis I know the more I enjoy learning and drawing them.

Re:Why is Japan so far ahead??

[CaptainCap]

In other words, "if you are willing to be considered 'average' you could stop learning at 2,000 kanji characters."

That attitude might work with your slacker buddies in the us of a, but don't dare say that to your friends in Japan.

Re:Why is Japan so far ahead??

[Slurpee]

well, ok, cut another 10 million out per soldier. Thats only 30mil each (USD).

Which is besides the point....cause my reply was to the original poster who claimed Japan had only 1000 defense personel, yet a budget of 40 billion.

Re:Why is Japan so far ahead??

[BJH]

I wish I'd noticed your post earlier, since most of it is just a reiteration of some of the nastier racist formulas to come out of the period when Japan had a higher economic growth rate than any Western country. Since there's no point in refuting your drivel, I'll just have to settle for putting you on my foes list.

Re:Why is Japan so far ahead??

[MidnightBrewer]

Ah, okay, sorry.

There are definitely way more than 1,000 personnel in the SDF. They also have many weapons that they're technically not supposed to, and the U. S. military has seen them and said nothing (a friend of mine is a military brat, and one of his relatives attended a reception at a Japanese base, where they were shown 50 tanks that they're technically not supposed to have under the current treaty.

My opinion - the Japanese will do what it takes to maintain face with the international community and the United States, but they're also probably quietly taking the necessary precautions should the U.S. fall through on its promises of protection.

Re:Why is Japan so far ahead??

[BJH]

What do you mean "the current treaty"?
The only thing that restricts what japan is supposed to have is the Constitution, which states that they may not possess "offensive weapons". That's why it's called the "Self-Defense Force".

Sorry, but your friend just saw a normal part of their armament.

Re:Why is Japan so far ahead??

[MidnightBrewer]

The United States and Japan also have a treaty whereby the United States is beholden to protect Japan in exchange for their continued pacifist stance. Remember, the United States *wrote* their current constitution.

Living in Japan, I get to hear a lot more on the news about the debates currently underway in the Diet regarding the possibility of changing that stance, considering that Japan was worried during the latest round of threats from North Korea that America would fail to honor the treaty.

Anyway, when a United States Army officer above the rank of a colonel tells you they're not supposed to have it, I'll take that as a pretty good source.

Re:Why is Japan so far ahead??

[Anonymous Coward]

"Give a man fire, and he'll be warm for a day; set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life."

A Terry Pratchett fan, I see.

Re:Why is Japan so far ahead??

[BJH]

Sorry, no.

You can find a copy of the treaty here.
If you read it, it says (paraphrasing here) "both parties will endeavour to settle any international disputes peacefully" but gives both parties "the right to defend Japan". In other words, there's no requirement that *only* Japan maintain a peaceful stance, and certainly nothing that says Japan's not allowed to use its armaments to defend itself.
On top of that, towards the end you'll see a section on concluding the treaty, which reads "after ten years from the signing of this treaty, either party may declare it void, with this taking effect one year thereafter". Since it was signed in 1960, there's no legal reason why Japan couldn't say that they're quitting the treaty.

What your army officer was probably talking about is the clause in the constitution - some legal scholars believe that it forbids Japan from owning any armaments, not just offensive armaments.

Re:Why is Japan so far ahead??

[MidnightBrewer]

That's where it gets tricky - ever seen a tank that couldn't be termed, "offensive?" What do they do, put a bumper sticker on it?

That's probably where everybody gets hung up - you could basically own any weapon you want, so long as you prove that you couldn't/wouldn't move it outside of Japan's territory.

Price Climbing

[semanticgap]

It's interesting that they keep managing to up the price a notch with every new iteration of the device... Might we see $1000 PDA's in the near future?

Re:Price Climbing

[Anonymous Coward]

Eventually PDAs and Laptops will meet in the middle, both in price and size.

Re:Price Climbing

[dswensen]

I think it's because of all the feature-piling. I bought a Visor Neo a year or so ago and have no need for a new PDA in and of itself. The Neo does its job well. But the newer PDAs have cameras, mp3 players, color displays, etc. etc. Of course, sooner or later I will convince myself I can't live without these features, and my old Neo won't cut the mustard anymore. Or, more accurately, will seem like it won't.

Of course, piling on Bluetooth, video players, and other (IMHO, often superfluous) features jacks up the price. The barebones PDAs are still under $100. But there's no need to buy another one of those every year, so they have to drive the market somehow.

That said, when I do get a new PDA, it will be the Zire 71. All the features I need, and a couple I don't, for a (fairly) decent price. And no stupid built-in keyboard (I hate those things).

Re:Price Climbing

[drinkypoo]

The solution is to have lots of little external things that can be added and double as other devices. The idea was bluetooth but you have to spend a lot of effort to keep everything charged. What would be great would be firewire but it's apparently so expensive to implement that it doesn't work out. Anyway then you could add things on and use as much stuff as you liked, or leave it home or in the car or whatever. Cameras, storage devices, multimedia devices, et cetera.

This sony chingadera looks like it's nice if you have a grand to spend on the device and some one gig memory sticks (for video...)

Re:Price Climbing

[A Commentor]

WRONG! There hasn't been price climbing.. Their first set of Clies in this style was the NR70 and NR70V, for $499, and $599 respectively. I know, I bought one of the NR70s. Then they released the NX60 and NX70 and guess what their prices where again $499 and $599... And look, the NX73 and NX80 are $499 and $599.... There other model the NZ90 is at $799... but these mid-line ones have been very consistently priced.

Re:Price Climbing

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't worry. Deflation will take care of that. Are you prepared? Funny how the general tone of /. is to encourage people to watch TV and buy gadgets when reality is more on line with fuckedcompany.com.

I was checking the internet this morning and read /., and then fuckedcompany, and realized a significant difference between the two forums. I concluded the FC people had been sitting in the cold and congealed fat of the dot.com economy and had been there for quite some time, commenting from the scene. The /. people were students and children commenting on how they percieve things to be from some insulated enclave, like university or from their parens home.

An acedemic vs. realistic perpective. And if your wondering, I'm not in the market for another stupid fucking handheld.

Re:Price Climbing

[lcorc79]

Not only would there be a lot of effort in keeping everything charged - but I'm running out of pockets here, man - I'm all for the convergence! It would be cool to have a modular system so we could all get what we wanted, and get 'best-of-breed' components etc, but it's just not practical. Not for a personal device meant to be carried with you. Component stereo systems are fine - but would you want a component walkman? :)

Re:Price Climbing

[Nogami_Saeko]

I just moved from a Handspring Visor Edge to a Sony Ericsson P800 a week ago, and I love it.

I couldn't imagine getting another PDA without telecom capabilities. Having a phone that does "everything" is the way to go!

I've also played a bit with the Treo, but the P800 is smaller and more "wearable" - I miss the polish of the Palm OS, but I'm pretty happy with my new phone.

N.

Re:Price Climbing

[biglig2]

You can almost get them already can't you? That's only about £600, I bet a top top of the range Toshiba is near that.

At least the massive sales of the base level Zire have shown that the cheap and cheerful market is surprisingly strong for PDAs.

For me, my next PDA looks likely to be the Tungsten C, whose technical specifications are purely marketing driven.

You see, corporate purchasers assume that a 64Mb, 400MHz Toshiba must be so much better than a 16MB, 114MHz Palm, even though it isn't any better - the Palm has the slight advantage of not running Windows. But assume they do, so Palm have produced a 64Mb, 400MHz Palm. Stupidly overpowered electronics is where I'm at.

Re:Price Climbing

[binarytoaster]

I just bought a Zire 71 (replacing my old m505) and I can recommend it wholeheartedly. It is MUCH faster than my old one (yes, it did have noticeable delays that are now gone) and the higher res screen makes my main use for it (reading books) much more tolerable.

PocketTunes + OGG: never have to pay for the program since it disables only mp3 after 15 days (I'm still going to buy it eventually, though: really cool program.)

The only gripe I have is that like all the newer Palms, it uses SD/MMC, and I wish it used CF...

Still, the Zire 71 is WELL worth the 300.

Re:Price Climbing

[Anonymous Coward]

'cut muster', not 'cut the mustard'

Re:Price Climbing

[NM156]

I just moved from a Handspring Visor Edge to a Sony Ericsson P800 a week ago, and I love it.

I'd love to get one of these to upgrade from my lovely T68i, but they're virtually impossible to find here in the U.S. There are a lot of them on eBay, but they seem to go for $650 to $700, and while they claim to be unlocked, it leave me wondering if they were hacked by the seller, or if they are truely unlocked from the factory. I don't want a hacked phone of questionable origin.

Otherwise, the phone appears to do everything that I'd use a PDA for, and it's a tri-band GSM phone that will work pretty much everywhere. If I could find one for around $500, I'd be all over it.

Re:Price Climbing

[bwhalen]

hard to justify more than a few hundred in price, above that you're approaching laptop territory, where the screens actually are big enough to do the things people want to do on a pda.

Re:Price Climbing

[dswensen]

Oh, please. It's perfectly acceptable slang. Read on and educate yourself:

The origin of "cut the mustard," meaning "to measure up to standards" or "to be sufficient or successful in accomplishing a task," is the subject of a long-standing debate among language experts. We do know that "cut the mustard" first appeared in print in an O. Henry story in 1907 and has been in pretty constant use since then, but exactly to what mustard "cut the mustard" might refer is still up in the air.

One theory is that "mustard" in the phrase should actually be "muster," meaning "examination." To "muster" troops is to assemble them for inspection, those who meet the necessary standards then being said to have "passed muster." It is possible that "cut the mustard" is simply a mangled form of "cut the muster," with "cut" being used in the sense of "to manage" or "to surpass." One problem with this theory is the lack of any known use of the supposedly proper form "cut the muster" in print.

It is also possible that "cut the mustard" refers to "cutting" (adulterating) mustard to make it less pungent, but this origin, as you note, seems unlikely because the idea of weakening strong mustard is almost completely opposite to the popular "strong enough" sense of "cut the mustard." And, since mustard plants are not notably difficult to harvest, it's not likely that "cut the mustard" refers to any special degree of agricultural stamina.

Fortunately, there's a glimmer of sense in all this. Years before "cut the mustard" showed up to mystify us, "mustard" was being used as slang for "that which adds zest" or "the best of anything," obviously referring to real mustard. To "cut the mustard" would then logically mean "to match the best in any situation." -- Word Detective

Whatever the origins of 'can't cut the mustard', they are about as clear as mustard, the expression 'too old to cut the mustard' is always applied to to men today and conveys the idea of sexual inability. ' Can't cut the mustard', however, means not to be able to handle any job for any reason, not just because of old age. Preceeding the derivation of 'too old to cut the mustard' by about half a century, it derives from the expression 'to be the mustard'. "Mustard" was slang for the " genuine article" or " main attraction" at the time. Perhaps someone cutting up to show that he was 'the mustard', or the greatest, was said 'to cut the mustard' and the phrase was later meant to mean to be able to fill the bill or or do the important or main job. In any case, O. Henry first used the words in this sense in his story "Heart of the West" (1907) when he wrote: " I looked around and found a proposition that exactly cut the mustard". Today, 'can't cut the mustard' is usually 'can't cut it' or 'can't hack it'. A recent variant on 'too old to cut the mustard' is 'if you can't cut the mustard, you can lick the jar'. -- QPB Encyclopedia of Word and Phrase Origins by Robert Hendrickson

So you see, grammar nazi, you don't impress me.
Better luck next time.

Re:Price Climbing

[Nogami_Saeko]

I didn't buy mine on Ebay, but I did buy it through a 3rd party as opposed to a regular retail outlet.

The $650-ish phones ARE unlocked, but make sure to get one that's english/european instead of english/chinese.

While you can switch to english mode in the chinese model, it eats 3mb of internal memory that you can't utilize for the chinese input/display.

Not so long ago...

[Anonymous Coward]

...in a galaxy not so far away a device that could do only half of what this one can do would have cost you a fortune...and not a good sized one at that...

Yah, but

[tcd004]

These don't compare with the DA Jesus built for me.

tcd004

panasonic sv-av30

[ptorrone]

i'm trying out the panasonic sv-av30, i saw one in japan last year, but the latest model is here now. it's an "okay" video recorder, digital camera with flash, mp3 player, voice recorder and you can plug it into a tv to record whatever. i recorded the animatrix on it and it's actually really good. i think the s-video in option for these devices and lots of storage is a where it's heading. the new rca lyra looks good too, i had thought a small screen wouldn't be good for watching video, but it turns out it's actually not so bad. i'll have some pictures on my site soon and a mini-review. i'm going to check out the latest clies. 1.3 mp is pretty good- i'm curious what the video size and format is, i'm going to guess 320 x 240 and mov format.

cheers,
pt

Re:panasonic sv-av30

[lcorc79]

Actually the built-in video recording's a joke, not meant to be a pocket camcorder or anything like that. That being said, you can get decent video if you encode it on a pc and use the Kinoma player ... But for recording from the Clie, that wonderful 1.3 MP camera is taken down to 160 x 112 resolution - not anything you'd want to record your son's graduation with :)

Re:panasonic sv-av30

[akb]

I'm sorry but my drool is reserved for the Archos av320. It has a 20GB hard drive, so it can hold 40 hours of mpeg4 movies.

its a culture thing

[ArchieBunker]

Why can you buy used panties out of a vending machine in japan? Why is anime so popular? They love gadgets like this and pump tons of money into developing them. Personally I couldn't ever use a PDA or one that plays videos for that matter. Yeah watching anime on a 400x400 pixel screen sure is great.

Re:its a culture thing

[marcushnk]

You can buy WHAT from a vending machine?!?!?

Thats bloody revolting..

Re:its a culture thing

[PD]

Oh I'm sorry, you'll have to come back in two weeks if you want bloody revolting.

Re:its a culture thing

[marcushnk]

aaarrggghh thats gross..

Re:its a culture thing

[Anonymous Coward]

You want a gross of bloody revolting panties? That's sick!

Re:its a culture thing

[Large Green Mallard]

I spent like a day in Tokyo looking for panty vending machines on behalf of many many people back home..

Do you know how many I found? None.. zero, zip, zilch.

Help a brother out, do you know where these panty vending machines are?

a flop?

[Anonymous Coward]

this thing doesnt have bluetooth! it will surely flop, guess ill hold out for the Tungsten T2 after all

Re:a flop?

[lcorc79]

A lot of us were surprised it didn't have built-in Bluetooth. Note however that the version of the NX73 Sony France released (and presumably the rest of the European versions) DOES have built-in bluetooth. France is NOT however releasing an NX80 at all, with or without BT.

Some reasoning here: in Japan, there are a ton of fast wireless data services, and they have CF cards for access (similar to a GSM/GPRS PCMCIA card for your laptop). The Japanese haven't really adopted Bluetooth; connecting your PDA/laptop to your cell phone for wireless net access just isn't necessary with all the wireless services they have there. Everyone gets the appropriate CF card and hops online that way.

Now in Europe, Bluetooth is all the rage - and pairing the PDA with the cell phone is almost a must. That's why Sony released the Bluetooth device in Europe but not Japan.

But we're all surprised (and I'm personally disappointed) there isn't a Bluetooth model in the US - adoption here hasn't been nearly as fast as in Europe, but it's becoming more popular.

There is of course a Bluetooth Memory Stick you can purchase to add support, but that's not as elegant as built-in. The high-end NZ90 model does however have built-in Bluetooth in all markets.

Head over to cliesource.com

[lcorc79]

Us Clie-heads are less than impressed with this device. It's merely a generational refinement of the existing NX70 series; by no means a dramatic upgrade.

The 'video' features touted in the headline have been in the last several models. The new 'features' include additional hardware buttons for when the device is in tablet mode; a collapsable CF slot (which can only be collapsed when not in use), a backlit keyboard, and an improvement over the NX series' cameras (1.3 MP on the NX80 - still not as good as the 2 MP camera on the NZ90).

Other inclusions are software based, including new Decuma handwriting recognition (supposedly nifty - especially for Asian character sets), and Sony's new CF driver allowing CF memory to be used - which isn't as powerful as Eruware's third party driver, since it doesn't support the built-in applications like playing audio off a CF card.

I'm obsessed with Clie's, and spend way too much time every day at www.cliesource.com ... but hey :)

All in all, the NX73/80 are better than their predecessors but by no means exciting for those already owning a NX or NZ. I certainly don't think it deserves the fanfare the articles & slashdot headline etc are giving it - but hey thats PR for you.

Re:Head over to cliesource.com

[Anonymous Coward]

I had a look at the NX73V, (80 isn't in the stores yet, here in Japan) and found that the overall balance is better and is easier to hold than the NX70V that I've got. It also seemed a little more nifty than mine although the CPU's should be the same. I'm not really sure whether the plastic pop-up CFCard slot was a good idea though.

japan is advanced....

[Anonymous Coward]

...because Japanese companies do not waste time with suing each other for every little poop. American companies behave like a 3 year old whom the lollipop was taken away.

Now serious: Japanese are more ready to spend huge money on new neat innovative gadgets than enybody else in the world.

It is the perfect platform for testing new products... check this: Sony QUALIA 016.

Big-Hit life cycle

[maliabu]

Its already a huge hit in Japan

Did they mention what the life cycle is for these kind big-hit gadgets in Japan, and what their target market is? it's easy to accidentally compare Apple to Sushi. Japanese youngster can adopt and dumb new things pretty quickly, Americans might be different.

Ohh, for instance, sales of PS2 or XBOX in Japan vs the world.

Re:Big-Hit life cycle

[g4dget]

Japanese youngster can adopt and dumb new things pretty quickly, Americans might be different.

American youngsters are no different in that they adopt dumb new things, they are simply different in the kind of dumb new things they adopt :-)

Re:Big-Hit life cycle

[Anonymous Coward]

Drugs?

experience with Sony PalmOS handhelds

[g4dget]

I have owned some Sony handhelds. Sony hardware is great, and PalmOS has going for it that there is a lot of software for it. But there are some real problems with the use of PalmOS on these devices.

For example, the Sony uses a different audio API from the Palm handhelds (because Palm didn't use to have an audio API) and Sony doesn't document it, so Palm audio players won't work on the Sony devices.

Also, many of the applications for Palm are specifically written for 160x160 pixels and will look absolutely horrible on a 320x320 screen. TopGun SSH is one of many examples.

Memory and memory management on these devices is also a problem. It is an enormous amount of work porting UNIX or Windows-based libraries to these devices, so a lot of software has to be written from scratch. And, in fact, a lot of pretty basic networking software just does not exist.

Applications also tend to crash with some frequency, which ends up rebooting the handheld (just like DOS).

PalmOS is designed with an "everything is a database" philosophy. Unfortunately, that runs into a brick wall when you stick in an SD or MS card, which, in fact, has a file system on it, and PalmOS doesn't deal well with it. Applications expect their data in particular subdirectories or ignore it. I have yet to figure out how to get the Sony movie player to play an MPEG file--I simply don't know where to put it on the memory stick and what to call it so that it will see it. And the lack of a file system inside the handheld means that installing and uninstalling applications is a complete mess: everything is just dumped into what amounts to a single top-level directory.

Sony does the right thing with these devices: they treat them as consumer gadgets. That is, they preload them with all the software you might ever want (including an MP3 player). The fact that they run PalmOS is almost incidental.

I think I can guardedly recommend the Sony handhelds since the hardware is nifty and the built-in applications are good (when they work). Just be aware of what you are getting and the limitations you have to live with.

Re:experience with Sony PalmOS handhelds

[riclewis]

Um... PalmOS 5? I think you're thinking of 3.5 or 4.0, like on the t615c, or the PEG models? You're right about the last generation (although I'd say it's still preferable to Palm OS on Palm hardware), but you're calling shots from a generation ago...

Actually--you're kinda off on the whole file system thing, but we'll let that pass...

OS5 won't even run on the older machines. It's designed from the ground up to run on next-gen processors, hi-res screens, etc. Check yo facts!

Re:experience with Sony PalmOS handhelds

[g4dget]

Um... PalmOS 5? I think you're thinking of 3.5 or 4.0,

I am exactly talking about Palm OS 5. In fact, the only Sony Clie's I have used are Palm OS 5.

Actually--you're kinda off on the whole file system thing, but we'll let that pass...

I'm just reporting my experiences as a user.

Re:experience with Sony PalmOS handhelds

[Sokie]

Also, many of the applications for Palm are specifically written for 160x160 pixels and will look absolutely horrible on a 320x320 screen. TopGun SSH is one of many examples.

I don't know about in PalmOS 5 but in my OS4 based N610C you can turn off HiRes Assist for specific applications and it looks just like it would on a 160x160 (color in my case) display. I too was bugged by this "problem" until I found out how to fix it. I'm assuming that the OS5 based Clie's have a similar feature.

-Sokie

Re:experience with Sony PalmOS handhelds

[RzUpAnmsCwrds]

You need to try a Pocket PC. Standard graphic API for games, everything's always hi-res, a real FS and a real filebrowser, multitasking, standard screen resolution, extensible input area (just look at the number of input options).

Pocket PCs have their problems, but they overcame many of the incompatibility problems taht now plague Palm OS long ago. Palm can't seem to decide if they want to kill Grafitti or not. Sony and Palm have different screen resolutions on their devices (what a mess for trying to program a game). There's a whole legacy architecture to support, so we may not see many native applications for a long time. There's no standardized expansion format (Sony = Memory Stick, Palm = SD).

All Pocket PCs on the market for the past year have had an ARM based processor. They all have 240x320 16K color displays. They all have SD expansion (with a few exceptions). They all have 32M of flash. They all have audio input and output capabilities. They all have a 5-way directional pad and 4 front buttons.

Re:experience with Sony PalmOS handhelds

[g4dget]

You need to try a Pocket PC.

I have. Sorry, it's not an alternative as far as I'm concerned. Ultimately, no matter how badly PalmOS sucks as an operating system, its applications are much better than PocketPC, and that's what counts in a PDA.

If I wanted something that was technically well-designed, then a Zaurus would be a better choice than either Palm/Clie or PocketPC.

Re:experience with Sony PalmOS handhelds

[pHDNgell]

All Pocket PCs on the market for the past year have had an ARM based processor. They all have 240x320 16K color displays. They all have SD expansion (with a few exceptions). They all have 32M of flash. They all have audio input and output capabilities. They all have a 5-way directional pad and 4 front buttons.

Sounds like my palm (except it's 320x320). Works pretty well with OS X, too.

I'll stick with Palm for now.

Re:experience with Sony PalmOS handhelds

[Mr_Silver]

I have. Sorry, it's not an alternative as far as I'm concerned. Ultimately, no matter how badly PalmOS sucks as an operating system, its applications are much better than PocketPC, and that's what counts in a PDA.

I'm assuming you're talking either about additional Palm applications or you come from an environment that doesn't mandate the use of Outlook?

In my experience, the built in PPC applications are far superior to the Palm ones. This is somewhat of a downer for the entire Palm line. The hardware is getting significantly better and cooler yet the software hasn't seen a radical change for the past 5 years (if not longer).

Some simple examples that the Palm can't do: appointments split over two days that sync back to Outlook (the conduit breaks them up), tasks with alarms, contacts with multiple addresses and a syncing solution that means that I can pick out my PPC from the cradle at any time and know that it is completely synchronised with my diary.

Sure the PPC has got its problems - attached word and excel documents in appointments don't sync to the PPC, the notes field is rather limited, battery life isn't as good and sometimes it has a tendency to lock up for no good reason. But I would severly dispute your assertation that Palm (built in) apps are better than PPC's.

Re:experience with Sony PalmOS handhelds

[Moofie]

What model? Just curious.

Re:experience with Sony PalmOS handhelds

[BenjyD]

Also, many of the applications for Palm are specifically written for 160x160 pixels and will look absolutely horrible on a 320x320 screen. TopGun SSH is one of many examples.

That's a little unfair. The intention of Palm was to allow software properly written for 160x160 displays to run unchanged on 320x320 displays by making the default screen mode on PalmOS 5 one that maps a 160x160 coordinate system over the 320x320 display.

There are differences between PalmOS3-4 and PalmOS5 that can show up bugs in software written for the earlier OSs, but correctly written software should appear basically identical in both.

Palm go out of their way to ensure that, where possible, correctly written software is back and forwards compatible.

Re:experience with Sony PalmOS handhelds

[g4dget]

I'm assuming you're talking either about additional Palm applications or you come from an environment that doesn't mandate the use of Outlook?

Yes, both, in fact. Palm has good applications built-in, and Clies come with really excellent additional ones.

If you are stuck with Outlook, of course the answer is to use another Microsoft product to talk to it; what do you expect? The converse is also true: PocketPC doesn't talk well to anything other than Microsoft products. That is another reason to avoid it.

Re:experience with Sony PalmOS handhelds

[Mr_Silver]

Yes, both, in fact. Palm has good applications built-in, and Clies come with really excellent additional ones.

Even if you aren't stuck with Outlook, i would still dispute your assertion. Palm's built in applications haven't seen a major overhawl in over 5 years - anyone who considers them "good" is either an undemanding user, happy with mediocrity or hasn't seen any other PIM's on organisers.

I wouldn't consider myself a power user but I find it pretty depressing in all this time Palm haven't figured out that people often have more than one address associated with a contact or that a task may need an alarm with it. That is just for starters.

Microsoft and Symbian have addressed all these issues in their OS' that Palm has failed to do so (and left the market open for DateBk5 and other PIM alternatives). I can't comment about Linux alternatives because i've never seen them but I would hazard a guess that they address the above too.

The SonyEricsson P800 has better PIM functionality than a Palm and it's primarily a mobile phone!

Re:experience with Sony PalmOS handhelds

[swv3752]

The 160 res problem only occurs with crappy written programs. Anything designed for Palm OS4 or higher will not have a problem.

Re:experience with Sony PalmOS handhelds

[swv3752]

Install the image converter and it will convert your movie to the proper format and install it to the memorystick in the proper location. The location is /palm/mq_root/100mqv01/ . The extension will be *.mqv which seems to be a mpeg4 in a quicktime wrapper but not 100 percent certain on that. It really works best just to use the image converter app.

Only old applications are written for 160x160 and of course you are going to run into problems running them on PalmOS5. One also runs into problems running Win95 apps on WinXP or libc5 apps under glibc.

I agree that networking on any Palm OS device is a pain. Just look at the bloated monstosity called a web browser for the thing. It needs 6mb just to install. And this on a device that only has 11mb free brand spanking new.

If you really need to network with such a thing get a Sharp Zaurus. Or some other linux pda.

Re:experience with Sony PalmOS handhelds

[Anonymous Coward]

1. Until Microsoft supports open standards rather than trying to crush them, I choose to avoid their products wherever possible. I'm not so vain as to believe that Microsoft will ever notice what I choose to do, but I feel better about putting my money elsewhere.

2. I've yet to find any use for a handheld that my old Palm m505 cannot perform perfectly well, including word processing with WordSmith and a Stowaway keyboard. Granted, if I needed to use it to access the internet or perform network administration tasks, it wouldn't be up to the job... but then I'd go with a Zaurus.

The Pocket PC platform has its place, and you're quite welcome to it if it works well for you. I just don't want to see the PDA market become another Microsoft monopoly (or a Palm monopoly, or Sony, etc.). I want choices today, tomorrow, and the day after, and that desire will influence my buying decisions.

Re:experience with Sony PalmOS handhelds

[Thag]

Even if you aren't stuck with Outlook, i would still dispute your assertion. Palm's built in applications haven't seen a major overhawl in over 5 years - anyone who considers them "good" is either an undemanding user, happy with mediocrity or hasn't seen any other PIM's on organisers.

Or Palm got it right the first time, and you're a sore loser.

I wouldn't consider myself a power user but I find it pretty depressing in all this time Palm haven't figured out that people often have more than one address associated with a contact or that a task may need an alarm with it. That is just for starters.

"I'm a power user, and I'm claiming false modesty."

So do two address entries, or put the second address in the note field. If you want a task with an alarm, I don't know. There are probably more advanced organizers for Palm that will do this, the default one is deliberately simple. It suffices for my needs.

If I really wanted to micro-manage my life, I'd probably want something more capable than either system gives away as their default organizer. I'd want nested sub-tasks, for instance, and the ability to automatically schedule around my vacations. I assume the organizer on the PPC side is equivalent to the functionality in Outlook? Because that's only one feature up on palm (alarms), and since it has no sub-task nesting, it's still useless for real work.

Windows hasn't significantly updated Notepad since Win95, and the app has glaring deficiencies, but it hardly means Windows has been standing still. The Palm platform has seen continuous improvement in almost every area since its inception, but they got a lot of things right in the first generation that didn't need changing.

Jon Acheson

Re:experience with Sony PalmOS handhelds

[Mr_Silver]

Or Palm got it right the first time, and you're a sore loser.

Your comment makes no sense unless I was a rabid OS zealot - which, despite the fact I'm posting to Slashdot, I'm not :o)

Personally I'll happily purchase whatever PDA by whatever manufacturer that meets my needs. Whoever made it concerns me very little. Although I did purchase my Vx (full price when it first came out 3 years ago) I've had given to me (and used a fair amount) Symbian (P800) and PocketPC (iPAQ 3850). I'm not aligned to any one manufacturer.

So do two address entries, or put the second address in the note field.

Why waste two address entries? Why can't you put it in one? How do you differentiate between the two without putting "Home" and "Work" somewhere in the persons name? Why should your notes section be filled with something that isn't a note?

It's cludges upon cludges for something that is really a rather basic requirement.

I assume the organizer on the PPC side is equivalent to the functionality in Outlook? Because that's only one feature up on palm (alarms), and since it has no sub-task nesting, it's still useless for real work.

There are plenty of other features the Palm lack, I just used those as an example.

Windows hasn't significantly updated Notepad since Win95, and the app has glaring deficiencies, but it hardly means Windows has been standing still.

I never stated the platform has been standing still. Indeed it hasn't, although the greatest leaps have been the update to the filing system, support for greater amounts of memory, support for additional media formats, colour screens and the movement from Motorola Dragonball CPU's to ARM. All hardware related.

The Palm platform has seen continuous improvement in almost every area since its inception, but they got a lot of things right in the first generation that didn't need changing.

Hardware, definately yes (although not without some coersion from other manufacturers - without MS, Symbian and Handspring Palm would have still been churning out black and white jobs). But, compare the PIM software of, say, the Palm III (released 1998) to that of the Tungstun T (released 2003) series. To my mind the only major differences have been a small amount of colour, the ability to tap on the menu bar (which was an OS level enhancement not application level), private appointments, support for bigger screen estate (which was hardware led and not software led) and repeating alarms. In 5 years.

It's not really a lot to ask and given that other PIM's and Manufacturers of PDA's sell well on the fact that they provide more than standard Palm functionality it wouldn't be too wide off the mark to suggest they are missing a trick or two by letting their software essentially rot.

Looking at the sales figures for Palm, they may still lead, but others are making significant inroads on, what was once, their market share. It would be naive to suggest that it didn't have anything to do with the underpowered nature of their software.

Re:experience with Sony PalmOS handhelds

[Anonymous Coward]

You need to try a Pocket PC. All Pocket PCs on the market for the past year have ... All have ... (with a few exceptions)...

Man, what a crock. A year does not a market history make. Hardware has been known to last longer than a year, dude. In fact, one of two Pocket PCs in my arsenal is 3 years old. Thanks for perpetuating the myth that I don't need compatibility. For that matter, look into how drivers and apps are sometimes incompatible with OS versions. And WTF should anyone be happy about SD as a standard (kicks Palm in shin for same anti-consumerist mistake)?

Face it. It's all about the whole usability thing. Like a coat that doesn't keep me warm in winter, I don't care how sharp-looking it is or if it has a YKK zipper if it JUST DOESN'T WORK! In this case, semistandardized crap is still crap.

The PocketPC is overpriced, slow, kludgy and annoying. The overpriced part may be in part because all devices include sound and color, so that may fade. CPU's get faster so SOMEDAY maybe they'll be ok. Given Microsoft's habit for CreatureFeep, I doubt it. But for now, they're still unacceptably unwieldy. As far as lamenting Palm's display resolution changes, my wife's Clie and my Palms swap apps just fine. Some don't go hi-res on her machine, but they work fine by automagically reverting to lower resolution. THEY JUST WORK!

PS: the newer palms are merely overpriced and carrying objectionable design choices (like SD). Give me liberty or I'll shop elsewhere.

Re:experience with Sony PalmOS handhelds

[Anonymous Coward]

Personally, I run almost none of the standard applications that come with a Palm. I run third-party apps that are generally available for $15 or so, and provide WAY more functionality. Check out www.palmgear.com sometime. As far as I'm concerned, the major reason to stick with PalmOS is the wide variety of applications that have been written for it, not what comes in the box.

Re:experience with Sony PalmOS handhelds

[RzUpAnmsCwrds]

Yes, but it's not EVERY palm. And competing Palm devices have different resolutions. Palm developers now have to support three different resolutions, many different audio and video standards, two processor families, and a lot more.

That's why most Palm applications are still low-res and still written for the 68K and still do not support real sound.

Re:experience with Sony PalmOS handhelds

[RzUpAnmsCwrds]

"And WTF should anyone be happy about SD as a standard (kicks Palm in shin for same anti-consumerist mistake)?"

It's smaller than CF and less proprietary than XD, Memory Stick, or Smart Media.

"The PocketPC is overpriced, slow, kludgy and annoying."

Wrong answer. I got my 5 ounce, 64-megabyte, color screen, SD enabled Pocket PC (a Toshiba e335) for $125. And, no, it wasn't used. Most "low end" Pocket PCs cost $200-$300.

"As far as lamenting Palm's display resolution changes, my wife's Clie and my Palms swap apps just fine. Some don't go hi-res on her machine, but they work fine by automagically reverting to lower resolution. THEY JUST WORK!"

Yeah, they work, but they can't take advantage of the better hardware of the device. Pocket PCs haven't changed radically since their introduction in their hardware capabilities. They all still have the same wave output, the same screen resolution, etc., so the Pocket PC software that has been in development already supports high-res and WAV/MP3 sound.

"A year does not a market history make. Hardware has been known to last longer than a year, dude."

Yeah, I still have my old Pocket PC 2000 (iPaq 3650). And guess what? All the Pocket PC apps out there are compatible with all of it's hardware capabilities.

Re:experience with Sony PalmOS handhelds

[RzUpAnmsCwrds]

"Face it. It's all about the whole usability thing."

OK, I will face it. Pocket PCs are easier to use. Oh, that's not true? PROVE IT. Show me one usability study (not commisioned by Palm or Microsoft) that shows that people learn Palm OS faster or are more efficent using it.

I don't care what you think is more usable. You can think that DOS on a 286 is easier to use than Windows 2000 if you want.

I have a Palm Pilot Pro and a Palm III and a Palm Tungsten-T. The interface has not changed much from the first device to the last. I think it sucks. The crappy Grafitti (give me my fitaly softkeyboard any day). The stupid hotsync that interrupts your work. The lack of any real filesystem which makes loading graphics or MP3s a bear. The lack of any context menu,

solid-state video capture

[g4dget]

If you want a lightweight, solid-state video recorder, you have much better options than the Panasonic or Clie. Several of the Sony digital cameras offer real-time 640x480 MPEG recording up to the capacity of the memory stick (40 minutes on a 1G memory stick). A few other digital cameras have similar capabilities.

PDA / video players

[jackDuhRipper]

SonyStyle says the Clié has a"High Performance CPU (200 MHz);" Is that really enough for video?

I very recently got a Tungsten T - it's great, and I love the fact it can play MP3s; even with a 128MB SD card, though, and using RealOne (transfer rates to the TT suck donk otherwise), it's still a little tweaky: That is, I can't use it to, e.g., read AvantGo offline (a 'core PDA function,' IMO) and listen to tunes seamlessly. Page scrolling slows. Music drops out. Timeouts shut the thing off completely.

Playing music is certainly a non-core function for a PDA, but it *wouldn't* be if the TT handled it to where I didn't have to be concerned about it.

If you're watching video on your new Clié, are you doing it because you Can, or because it Works?

Re:PDA / video players

[Enfors]

SonyStyle says the Clié has a"High Performance CPU (200 MHz);" Is that really enough for video?

I have an old Clie NR70V with a 66 MHz Motorola processor, and it plays video with fair quality at 320x480, so I don't think that'll be a problem with a 200 MHz model.

Re:PDA / video players

[fliplap]

I have a Sharp Zaurus 5500 and I've learned its all about formatting the video correctly. I wrote a little script that lets me quickly convert/scale/re-encode TV captures to play nicely on my Zaurus. I step down the video bitrate and sound quality, scale it down to 320x240 (or if its 352x240 I just crop 16px of each side). Having it the correct resolution really speeds things up since the software doesn't have to scale it. I transcode everything to divx5, so it all plays smoothly on the Z. I watched a 2 hour movie and 2 TV episodes on my Z on the plane just a few days ago.

I know PalmOS stuff require specially formatted files and I believe the Clie comes with software to automaticly scale and format it right. Maybe RealOne just sucks like all other RealNetworks stuff?

Re:PDA / video players

[Dicky]

Yeah, I know it's going off-topic a bit...

I've been playing with the same thing for my iPAQ for a while - effectively the same hardware... Any chance of posting your script (or at least your settings) here, or directly to me by e-mail? Much appreciated :-)

Re:PDA / video players

[ichimunki]

You will earn my undying gratitude and a spot on my "friends" list if you would please post that script. :)

My own efforts in this area have been of the type to get video files into 352x240 mpeg form so I can burn VCDs, but knowing what settings to use to get good Z-ready video would really be nice.

Re:PDA / video players

[fliplap]

I use 2 pass divx encoding (just because its faster than 3 pass). I couldn't get the entire script through the lameness filter so this will have todo.

mencoder NAME_OF_INPUT_FILE -ovc lavc -vop scale=320:240 -lavcopts vcodec=mpeg4:vbitrate=BITRATE_GOES_HERE:vpass=1 -oac mp3lame -lameopts br=10 -srate 22050 -o NAME_OF_OUTPUT_FILE.avi

Then run mencoder again for the 2nd pass:

mencoder NAME_OF_INPUT_FILE -ovc lavc -vop scale=320:240 -lavcopts vcodec=mpeg4:vbitrate=BITRATE_GOES_HERE:vpass=2 -oac mp3lame -lameopts br=10 -srate 22050 -o NAME_OF_OUTPUT_FILE.avi

Comments from the script:

!/bin/sh
pdaify.sh - flip@asu.edu

This script requires mencoder, part of the
mplayer package from http://mplayerhq.hu
--you might have to change the path to mencoder
see below.

Standard GPL disclaimers apply. Although
it should make a nice playable/watchable
video for the Sharp Zaurus 5500 running
OpenZaurus 3.2, I in know way promis it will
work for you.

Default bitrate is 40: this will result in
a 20 minute movie being about 30megs +/- 2megs.
Keep in mind this was designed to fit 2 TV shows
on a 64meg CF card. So the quality of the video
is really low at 40, you might want to up it if
you have more space

Also keep in mind I'm using -vop scale 320:240.
There's a _very_ good chance this isn't what you
want. Divx5 will _not_ maintain aspect ratio...
so you might have to change this to fit your
preferences. GOOD LUCK!

Re:PDA / video players

[fliplap]

I use 2 pass divx encoding (just because its faster than 3 pass). I couldn't get the entire script through the lameness filter so this will have todo.

mencoder NAME_OF_INPUT_FILE -ovc lavc -vop scale=320:240 -lavcopts vcodec=mpeg4:vbitrate=BITRATE_GOES_HERE:vpass=1 -oac mp3lame -lameopts br=10 -srate 22050 -o NAME_OF_OUTPUT_FILE.avi

Then run mencoder again for the 2nd pass:

mencoder NAME_OF_INPUT_FILE -ovc lavc -vop scale=320:240 -lavcopts vcodec=mpeg4:vbitrate=BITRATE_GOES_HERE:vpass=2 -oac mp3lame -lameopts br=10 -srate 22050 -o NAME_OF_OUTPUT_FILE.avi

Comments from the script:

!/bin/sh
pdaify.sh - flip@asu.edu

This script requires mencoder, part of the
mplayer package from http://mplayerhq.hu
--you might have to change the path to mencoder
see below.

Standard GPL disclaimers apply. Although
it should make a nice playable/watchable
video for the Sharp Zaurus 5500 running
OpenZaurus 3.2, I in know way promis it will
work for you.

Default bitrate is 40: this will result in
a 20 minute movie being about 30megs +/- 2megs.
Keep in mind this was designed to fit 2 TV shows
on a 64meg CF card. So the quality of the video
is really low at 40, you might want to up it if
you have more space

Also keep in mind I'm using -vop scale 320:240.
There's a _very_ good chance this isn't what you
want. Divx5 will _not_ maintain aspect ratio...
so you might have to change this to fit your
preferences. GOOD LUCK!

STUPID LAMENESS FILTER. I know the same comment has already been posted. I wanted to reply to everyone! Is there a way to send private messages? Bah.

Re:PDA / video players

[ichimunki]

Thank you! I will give this a try.

Re:Why is this moderated up?

[Anonymous Coward]

But the Japanese do seem to have a national like of gadgets. So do geeks on Slashdot. Is that really a bad thing? It's not like it's a joke about Japanese people liking tentacle sex or something strange like that. If the story were about Americans liking guns, and someone made the comment, I wouldn't have a problem with it. Americans DO like guns more than most other people around the world.

Nice troll

[Anonymous Coward]

Moderators, just check out some of his other work.

Re:Nice troll

[Anonymous Coward]

are u referring to me? do you need more substantial evidence/proof to show how popular this gadget is in Japan? is that what you want? You shud be more clear....

Jeez...

[MoeMoe]

Because I don't have enough people watching me download pr0n...

<old man rant=1>

In my day you had to carry flash powder, a powder holder, a torch, and a 50lb. piece of luggage to get a 1.4" black and white picture... AND WEEE LIKED IT!!!!!!!!!

<old man rant=0>

Re:Why is this moderated up?

[Anonymous Coward]

As a religious Jew from Nebraska, I certainly empathize with your concerns and know what it feels like to see bullshit like the examples you cited spoken as if they were no big deal, or "just a joke." However, I don't know what stereotype you are offended by. Perhaps I am naive(I've run into many people very naive about Jewish stereotypes), but I have never heard any stereotypes like "The Japanese are easily amused by gadgets," which I assume is something like what you think the original poster was trying to convey? There are many great consumer electronics companies in Japan that release items to the domestic market before they release it to the rest of the world. It has been my impression that new cell-phones and other gadgets are more readily adopted there than in their foreign markets. Is this a stereotype? I think it's more like "New diesel car popular in Europe? I am shocked." Am I wrong?

Re:Why is this moderated up?

[Anonymous Coward]

Ah fudge, I've been trolled.

Re:Why is this moderated up?

[Anonymous Coward]

Ahhso, me so solly!

Re:Why is this moderated up?

[Anonymous Coward]

So wrong, yet, so funny.

so what? It's not a phone.

[asscroft]

my cousin's nokia does all that too. It has video, blue tooth, camera, games. He has a doom port on there, a gameboy emulator and tons of rom files and he also has the ability to play tv shows and videos created off the phone. Bonus! It dials and calls people who have regular phones! neato. I don't think he has pocket excel and word though, so you can't get your spreadsheet on. Or the other palm apps. so it still sucks. but it's only 300 dollars.

You forgot to call it.....

[Anonymous Coward]

...."the latest iPod clone."

Sony should just go ahead an buy Palm.

[SensitiveMale]

Is any other company developing Palm machines?

Or even researching anything Palm hardware related?

Well, other than handspring adding a keyboard and palm changing the design of the buttons and trackpad.

Re:Sony should just go ahead an buy Palm.

[andrewleung]

this has been thought about a lot... and attempted... but palm just won't sell! XD

Sony's Idei -Part 1

The NZ90 is a BEAST! Too fat...but i guess it's supposed to fill the gap it leaves in your wallet :)

NX80 looks cool... getting good for it's size.

Is Half of the memory really wasted???

[A Commentor]

In looking at the specs for the NX80, it lists '32MB' and a footnote, which reads "Actual available space is 16 MB. (A portion is used for data management functions.)" The NX73 is not as bad but still 16M downto 11M usable. Seems like a waste.

Re:Is Half of the memory really wasted???

[lcorc79]

It comes from an OS limitation in PalmOS 5.0 (and all earlier versions). PalmSource fixed this in 5.2, which is why the new Tungsten model has 64 megs ... but Sony hasn't released a 5.2 model yet.

To get around the 16MB heap limitation as much as possible, Sony fudged things around and stuck an extra 16MB in there for storing the built-in apps (which take ~5MB). On the NX73, there's only that one 16MB, so the built-in apps take away from the usable heap. On the NX80, they threw in another chip (and presumably just stuck with a 16MB chip for the economies of scale, cheaper than adding a different chip even though they only needed 5MB). That frees up the 5MB, giving the user access to the full 16MB that PalmOS is able to address in the heap.

Where are the mid-range models?

[X_Caffeine]

I want the big screen and the virtual graffiti space. I don't want the freakin' camera. Drop the camera off one of those models and shave off $100 for crying out loud.

Same problem with all these great new cellphones... the Sony Ericsson P800 looks like a pretty awesome device with a killer interface, but darnit, I have a $1000+ digital camera, I don't need a stinkin' webcam making the phone/pda bulkier.

Re:Where are the mid-range models?

[fumble]

Amen to that brother.

I see 2 distinct product areas that stand alone, but also *could* have some overlap (probably more-so in the future). They are: "Multi-media Device," and "Personal Digital Assistant." The problem, IMO, is that they are marring the wrong features from each group. For example; should I have to fork over $100+ more, and suffer a thicker form-factor for a device who's primary function is to serve as a PDA, just for a video camera? How can the average customer even use a video camera with them 24/7? Sure, there's the occasional funny video capture, or the occasional "car accident evidence," or maybe you even need this for your job ... but those are rare or specialized occasions.

An example of a good addition to the PDA set, IMO, is MP3 playback as this is something most people could use while bussing/biking/walking to work. It's a convenient feature that cuts down on carrying another device, it's a simple enough task suited for a PDA-type OS, plus it shouldn't increase the form-factor if they do it right.

Hopefully a little more R&D will help Sony and others choose what features to put together, and what to keep to separate dedicated devices.

Re:Where are the mid-range models?

[metamatic]

Drop the keyboard too, and put Bluetooth in.

Must have big screen, must have Bluetooth, but I really don't want a fiddly keyboard or a crappy camera.

Dell Axim

[anandcp]

My Dell Axim X5 has MUCH, MUCH more. An MP3 player, 320x320 crisp TFT screen, 64 MB memory, 32MB SD Card, audio recorder, etc., Of course you need to buy a video camera and attach... but its just that. For the price Dell gives me $250/- its dirt cheap/

Re:Dell Axim

[lcorc79]

Actually, these Clie's have MP3 players, 320 by *480* TFT screens, expansion via MemoryStick and CF cards (2 gigs possible there), built-in audio recorders as well.

You've got 64 MB of memory, but PalmOS has a lighter footprint than PocketPC, as do the apps.

While the price is higher than your Axim X5 - you can't say the X5 has 'MUCH MUCH more'. A lot of these features have been in Clie's for so long that sometime's they're left off the short list of specs, but that doesn't mean they aren't there :)

Re:Dell Axim

[shriek7]

Actualy axim x5 is 320x240 as anyother ppc device out there. Another drawback is its *HUGE* size! axim is everything but portable! I'm currently a ipaq H3850 user and I trying to go palm because they smaller, lighter (physicaly and 'softwarly' ;P) But I have to agree that for +/-$250 it is a good device

Of course there is viewsonic v35 and ipaq 1910. Those are light but the major problem is the OS. Tungsten|T

Re:Dell Axim

[DevilsEngine]

Your Axim does not have a 320x320 screen. It has a 320 by 240 screen. At 320 x 480, the Sony has twice the resolution. This makes a huge difference if you use the device as either an ebook reader, picture viewer, or video player. On video, it's like the difference between watching an old VHS tape and a crisp DVD. (And Sony's movie player is much smoother than the one on my Axim). And, of course, the Clie does play MP3, and supports both MS and CF for memory, and you don't need to add the camera.

When editing text, you can have many more lines of clear text on the Clie screen. If you write as much on your handheld as I do, you'll really appreciate this feature.

That's why, though I own both devices (and an older Palm and an Ipaq), it's the Clie that rests in its cradle and the Axim that lives in a drawer. I agree the Axim has a good price, but give these Sonys a couple of months. Sony churns out new models like nobody else, and the previous generation is always available at a much reduced price.

BFD

[djupedal]

Now that Sony has slipped to #2 in so many markets, this product only serves to illustrate why.

$600.00? plus tax, buddie...cough it up. You want those $300.00 worth of accessories, too, right?

Wow..this thing is so trik! Watch this Newt!! Ok, I'll just remove my CF storage card and insert my CF wireless lan card and...wait...all my photos are on the CF storage card...oh man!!!!

Re:BFD

[swv3752]

For regular storage, use the Memory Stick. Everything is going to default to the memory stick anyways, and the regular memory sticks are pretty cheap now adays.

The cf storage was because a lot of customers want that, primarily becuase a bunch of ebooks, dictionarys, and other programs for Palm OS come on cf cards.

Re:BFD

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, Sony has risen to the #2 spot. Sony was never #1 in PDAs. Palm has been number one for a long long time now.

Or as Ned Flanders would say...

[Anonymous Coward]

"The new Video-Clie is Okly-dokly"

where are the REAL video phones?

[Anonymous Coward]

There are many new mobile technologies every day. But there is something that bothers me. If we have the ability to do all these amazing things, why is it that I haven't seen a phone that uses video as well as audio in communication? We have cameras, radios and all kinds of games, but where are the phones that allow us to see echother while talking at the same time? Isn't this what we've been promised in multiple science-fiction films? some kind of mobile video-confrencing?

Re:where are the REAL video phones?

[Enfors]

You're talking about 3G, the 3rd generation cell phone network. They've got that in Japan already (with video cell phones, etc) and we're supposedly getting it here in Sweden by the end of the year.

Re:where are the REAL video phones?

[Anonymous Coward]

Because there's almost no demand for video phones?

Re:where are the REAL video phones?

[Inflatable Hippo]

It's just been launched in the UK, don't know what the uptake has been like yet.

it gets better....

[djupedal]

For some guys, this is as close as they will ever get.

And...there was this one enterprising guy that used to buy panties off the local high school girls, and then package them, sealed fresh, along with a signed Polaroid.

He'd put twenty or so 'packages' inside one of those little coin machines where you use the crane-claw to try to grab things, like toy cars or stuffed animals, etc. Arcade parlors...what an experience...DDR and Whack-a-mole and shrink-wrapped gifts from the other side. Caffeine chewing gum and 142 decibels of the GiriGiri Girls around the clock.

The neighborhood moms got upset over all the disappearing underwear, and how the family clothing budgets were being torn to shreds. They formed a militia and found him out and complained to the police.

The police were sympathetic, but they could find no law that was being broken, so they couldn't drag him in...until, they got smart, and charged him with selling antiques without a license. If you've tried to market swords in Japan, you know this is a big no-no.

Book 'im, Dano-san!!!

Typo on Sony spec pages

[KFury]

For those confused by the NX spec page, there's a type. though the 73 and 80 seem identical aside from color (silver vs black) and price ($599 vs $499), the 73 has a 300,000 pixel camera, not the 1.3 megapixels stated on the page. It also has half the ram (16 vs 32) though others on this thread claim that the difference is more marginal (11 vs 16) due to 'overhead' and memory address issues.

Re:Typo on Sony spec pages

[chrisand1]

What about the 73 and (what had been removed lately, but can still be found elseware) the 70. The only difference between these are the colours, thats it, same everything. Oh no, wait, the price went up $50.

Testing the Sony Clie NZ90

[securitas]

We are testing the new Sony Clie NZ90 which comes with a 2 Mega Pixel camera, built-in Bluetooth, Palm OS 5, wireless LAN slot, voice recorder and a 320 x 480 pixel display. We are testing it with the add-on 802.11b wireless LAN WiFi card. It records video in MPEG-4 and plays back MPEG-1 and MPEG-4 (among other formats) so I'm not exactly clear on what the fuss is about here.

Re:Testing the Sony Clie NZ90

[swv3752]

Smaller size, 5mb more useable memory, and the ability to use cf cards.

Re:Testing the Sony Clie NZ90

[Factomatic]

securitas: I'm not exactly clear on what the fuss is about here.

swv3752: Smaller size, 5mb more useable memory, and the ability to use cf cards.

You're kind of comparing a luxury car to a mid-range one (or some similar differentiation between market segments), swv3752, but you also made a couple of mistakes.

First, you CAN use compact flash type II cards with the NZ90, and the available RAM on the NX80 and NZ90 are identical: 32 MB (16 ROM, 16 RAM).

While it's true that the NX models are smaller, it's with good reason. Unlike the NX models, the NZ90:

• includes a strobe flash for the camera (and believe me, you need it if you're anywhere that's not brightly lit and you want pictures of a decent quality!) not just a "capture light"
• the CF slot is inside the body of the NZ90 vs. outboard on the NX models
• most importantly, the NZ90 has a REMOVEABLE rechargeable battery. Have you ever had your PDA run out of juice while you were on the road? It always happens at the worst time. And if you're using the wireless networking or the camera a lot, battery power can get eaten up fast.

So, yes, the NZ90 is a little bigger (0.03 inches deeper, 0.12 inches wider and 0.38 inches longer), but I'll take it over the NX models any day -- it's a real workhorse for road warriors and other highly mobile workers. The NX models are good for what they are -- mid-range devices -- but they just don't measure up. Here's the comparison chart.

1GB of video..OOOooooo

[Archfeld]

I can hardly wait..That means I can watch a crappy resolution Divx on a screen the size of a matchbook for $600. While the techno geek in me drools to look at new hardware...This isn't going to find its way into my repetiore. I hope to see memory stick pro keep advancing but this seems like a product destined to flop anywhere BUT Japan, where they will BUY ANY electronic Gadget :)

Re:1GB of video..OOOooooo

[Enfors]

You make it sound like playing video is all this thing does. It does waaaay more than that. But I'll agree that it's not exactly revolutionary in any way, but it's not crappy either.

Re:1GB of video..OOOooooo

[danila]

Actually 1Gb of 320x480 DivX probably means at least 3 hours of video(high-quality encoding). If we ignore the possible need to reencode it for the Clie, it's not too bad. And if you can shell out enough money to buy several of these 1Gb sticks, it might actually work as a video player pretty well.

16mb usable??!!

[snooo53]

For $600? Are they nuts?! The thing I don't understand is why these companies are touting features like mp3 and now video playback... but have dismal amounts of memory!. I mean good grief, the visor I bought something like 4 years ago had 8mb of usable space!

When I see a palmtop with a 2.5 or 1.5" hard drive inside it, then I might consider getting one with all those A/V features. Why is this so hard? I don't mind a palmtop as thick as an Ipod with similar battery life. In fact, it'd probably be better since many are pretty flimsy as it is. If 'real' mp3 players can incorporate a hard drive, why aren't we seeing this in palm devices?

Re:16mb usable??!!

[pantherace]

Mulit-function: I have a zaurus, I have a mp3-cd player I used to use, now I use the zaurus. The Zaurus (one of the most expandable, and when it was released, nothing in the price range was as expandable with sd for memory and cf for any cf card) replaced the mp3-cd because the 128MB cf cards are easy to carry around. The cd player relatively is not, and it only does one thing. The CF cards while compared to the hard drives, are multi-function. Video, on the zaurus looks quite good, and using mplayer (which was the first available mpeg4 player on Z (first on there by me (plus all the mplayer & ffmpeg coders, now by others (Denes)) and they fit on the CF. The problem with the hard drive is that it's non-removable, and it eats up battery life compared to flash. The ipod has a pretty low power, non-powerful processor in it, and a low power simple display. Even with say sharp's new lcd technology, and a very low power proc, those two things eat a large amount of battery, and I suspect that to have the hard drive and anything worthwhile in terms of battery life you would need something the size of a brick, at least. Especially when viewing video (depending on things, a Zaurus 5500 may get 1-2 hours on video)

Re:16mb usable??!!

[porksodas]

Um, actually the specs page says it has 32mb. The software itself is located in ROM memory, so that doesn't take up any space. Still not that much, but more than 16mb.

Re:16mb usable??!!

[dswensen]

For $600? Are they nuts?! The thing I don't understand is why these companies are touting features like mp3 and now video playback... but have dismal amounts of memory!

Simple economics: because they want you to buy that $89.95 128 MB memory stick, sold separately.

That's not true; Japan has huge military forces.

[pario]

They are called the Self Defence Forces. They have 250,000 members and over 6% of the national budget is spent on them. In fact, the nation's military budget is one of the biggest in the world.

IMO, the success of Japan in the technological industry has to do with crafsmanship and work ethic that were developed during a relatively stable period prior to the introduction of Western cultures in the 19th century.

I was born and grew up in the country and I must tell you the work ethic of people there is just incredible. I have a friend who got a master's degree from a prestigious university and works for a well-known company as a hardware engineer. He works from 9 a.m. to 10 p.m. 6 days a week and gets crappy $25000 a year without getting paid for overtime. He stays in the job just because he loves what he is doing and takes pride in things he creates.

He is just one of the great, hard-working engineers who make Japan such a technologically advanced country, those who truly love technology and who cannot care less about what they get in return. This is what makes Japan so unique. It is most definitely not about money. (I smell something very American in your post.) Otherwise, how can you explain the fact that Japan was such a poor country after WW2 and is now one of the biggest economic powers in the world?

I'm Quite Happy, Thank You

[Aldurn]

It's good to see the latest and greatest come out. It shows that the market's not dead. Granted, I don't ever see myself needing a 2MP camera on my PDA, nor do I even see the need for a color screen.

So what?

Someday, there may be a feature these contain that I just can't pass up. When that day comes, competition will have created the perfect PDA for me. For now, as odd as it is, I like the Newton.

There's usually one post in every PDA stories about the Newton, and I figure I might as well be that post.

Until I can get a PDA with handwriting recognition that WORKS WELL, and at least gives me some semblence of decent multitasking, I'll be sticking with my MP2100.

PalmOS is nice: it does what it needs to do, and little more. It makes an excellent organizer, and it's even nice to have buttons on the device. And I'll agree, Sony's design is quite asthetically pleasing.

But watching someone's Clié take its time drawing a single JPEG image is an amusing. And running programs like ICQ is still a futile endevor, because unless you want to manually poll the ICQ program, you can't use your PDA for anything but one task.

The Zaurus is much nicer, except the current OpenZaurus/Sharp ROMs are about as stable as a deck of cards. Still, it's very refreshing when I've managed to break it to the point of Qtopia not starting to be able to pull up a console, use SSH, download the latest image to a flash card, and reflash my device.

Windows CE, while multitasking, is the worst of the bunch. It's not fast like PalmOS or NewtonOS, it's not powerful like the Zaurus. It just... is. It's not intuitive (if you don't bring up the keyboard and type "Control-Q", you can't quit programs, and eventually the device will slow down,) handwriting recognition is the worst of the bunch (well, it's on par with the Zaurus, and no, the "Recognizer" in WinCE 3.5 doesn't work well at all,).

As with the other platforms, I think that PDAs are in a state of transition. PalmOS 6 should be an excellent operating system, and the PDA companies know that. Right now, they're loading propriotary extensions into the operating system for their whiz-bang features, like the Clié's audio, the 320x320 resolution (which, IIRC PalmOS5 supports natively now,) and the camera.

PalmOS 6 should be sweet, especially if they borrow liberally from the code they purchased from Be. The target system of BeOS was slower clock-wise than the top-end of the PDA market right now. The next PDA I buy, depending on how it turns out, may very well be a PalmOS 6-based device.

For now, while these Cliés are nice, there's always something that's slightly better just hanging on the horizon, and the longer I hold out, the better it will be.

Re:I'm Quite Happy, Thank You

[radish]

Windows CE, while multitasking, is the worst of the bunch. It's not fast like PalmOS or NewtonOS, it's not powerful like the Zaurus. It just... is. It's not intuitive (if you don't bring up the keyboard and type "Control-Q", you can't quit programs, and eventually the device will slow down,) handwriting recognition is the worst of the bunch (well, it's on par with the Zaurus, and no, the "Recognizer" in WinCE 3.5 doesn't work well at all,).


You seem to be stuck in a bit of a timewarp w.r.t CE - when was CE 3.5 current? It's not even been called CE for a couple of years.

I have a PocketPC 2002 device - the recognition is pretty good. You can put it in graffiti mode (where it works better than my old Palm) or "Transcriber" which is the full script recogniser. I find it tends to work pretty well provided you just go one word at a time. Using my messy scrawl (joined up) it gets maybe 90%. Not wonderful, and I still find myself swearing at it sometimes, but overall it's faster at entry than the Palm was. Never used a Newton (nor do I have any pockets big enough to carry one) so I can't compare.

Performance of the device as a whole blows Palm out of the water (well, compared to my Palm V anyway, newer ones may be better). Yes the interface is hardly the most elegant, but you can go a long way towards fixing that with some freeware apps like wisbar etc. I used to be a Palm boy 100% but I have to admit the out of the box experience was crap. You had to load up a bunch of apps (like Launcher3, HackMaster etc) to make it usable. The same goes for PPC - throw on wisbar and a few other little things and you've got a pretty good device overall. Given the much better support for additional hardware (my PPC has CF & SD slots), much better display and audio than most Palms, and the comparable cost, and there's no way I'm going back to Palm. The only downer is that the devices are slightly larger (but not much these days) and the battery like is more like a laptop than a Palm, but I can live with that. YMMV.

Re:I'm Quite Happy, Thank You

[Anonymous Coward]

"Windows CE, while multitasking, is the worst of the bunch. It's not fast like PalmOS or NewtonOS, it's not powerful like the Zaurus. It just... is. It's not intuitive (if you don't bring up the keyboard and type "Control-Q", you can't quit programs, and eventually the device will slow down,) handwriting recognition is the worst of the bunch (well, it's on par with the Zaurus, and no, the "Recognizer" in WinCE 3.5 doesn't work well at all,)."

Boy are you off. My Pocket PC (current version is WinCE 4.0, by the way) handles memory better than a Palm, I can shut down processes simply by hitting one of the hardware buttons, and the breadth and quality of the software (emulators for all my favorite machines) run perfectly. The handwriting recognition, in my opinion, is significantly better than the best was on Newton. I think you seriously need to take a look at one of the newer models, like the HP iPaq 1910. Yes, it's Microsoft, but that doesn't automatically make it bad.

Power requirements

[hussar]

It is really interesting to me that neither the Sony product page nor the CNet article mention these device's power requirements or how long you can expect to use them before needing to recharge. When PDAs first hit the market, one of the selling points was how long you could go without changing the batteries. Then they became rechargeable, and for a little while the time between charges got some mention. Now, at least for these PDAs, it isn't mentioned at all.

What brought me in mind of this was a Steward Alsop article in Fortune magazine in which he notes that one of the hurdles to becoming truly wireless is the development of better mobile power sources. He neglects to mention the movement towards more efficient devices that is converging with efforts to find better power sources, but still he has a point.

Re:Power requirements

[swv3752]

Similiar clie models can go about 10 straight hours on, or about 2 weeks with "normal" usage, that means about half an hour on a day.

What, no telephone for $600?

[Anonymous Coward]

The Sony Ericson P800 is a pda, phone and camera, running Symian OS.

Why on earth would anyone buy a Clie?

P800 has Bluetooth built in, memory stick...why are Sony doing such an inferior AND superior product at the SAME TIME?

320 pixels by 480 pixels.

[UrGeek]

=major suckage, imho.

I don't want a $600 uber-gadget, I want simplicity

[enkidu]

I don't need a $600 Gameboy wanna be. I don't need a crippled ipod. I don't need a video player for munchkins. I don't need a uber machine that does 6 things badly (and that I need to upgrade all together). I want something that will store and process information for me. Not media, INFORMATION. Notes, meetings, phone numbers, addresses, ideas, sketches, references, URLS, passwords (encrypted natch). For me, this information is still B&W text and graphics. I want

• long battery life (~1 month)
• tack sharp 320x480 B&W screen, good for outdoor, indoor and in-dark use.
• a compact size (Palm V)
• CF or at least dual SD slots.
• built in usb port.

I'd like

• flash/static ram backup (so running out of batteries won't lose me all of my data).
• a thumb-keyboard (if it is removeable or doesn't add bulk) with vim.
• cheap I-net access (cell, WiFi, GPRS, GSM, I don't care).
• maybe txt2speech capabilities, that would be cool.

I don't want

• battery draining color
• battery draining uber processors (my Mac IIsi had 20MHz and I ran Mathematica on it fer chrissake).
• an over-sized complex to use phone.
• a un-ergonomic crappy lens digital camera.
• half-assed MP3 playback
• half semi-assed audio recording (unless it has automatic transcription, but we ain't gonna see that for at least 5 years.)
• half semi-demi-assed video playback.

I don't care if it's running Palm, WinCE or Linux as long as it doesn't crash more than once a month and boots up in less than 3 seconds. The closest thing is STILL the Handera 330 and it came out 2 years ago. I don't see progress, I see bloated, mediocre products designed with the mantra of "features good, more features better".

Off-topic

[Jeremiah Cornelius]

Iggy Pop in the .sig! I like it. Still can't get used to Nissan using Iggy and the Velvets to sell SUVs to the offspring of yuppies 'though...

ANYbody here ever actually USED a pda ? seriously

[the_PRODUCE_mgr]

That new P.d.A brings to mind an article I once almost read.
30 million pda's out there .. 29.9 million of them by Sony. Yet who on this planet actually needs a $400 scratchpad in a box? Give me a 3 cent pencil, a 1 cent Post-it (tm by 3m) save myself $399.96.

I love that 1.3 megpix CAMERA though. When did 1.3 become obsolete ?
2002? 2001? Before y2K even :O
My megapixel memory's fading.

No, I didn't

[Anonymous Coward]

AND WEEE LIKED IT!!

I much preferred the Polaroid.

-B

video player for Palm

[datrus]

Check out MMPlayer for a DivX/MPEG-1,2,4 player that works on regular Palms.

David

Re:I don't want a $600 uber-gadget, I want simplic

[Anonymous Coward]

a thumb-keyboard (if it is removeable or doesn't add bulk) with vim.

Screw that. Everyone knows that emacs is the only reasonable choice for PDAs. I'm still waiting to see a PDA with emacs as the operating system.

Bluetooth

[ralphclark]

They can pile on all the features they want, but if there's no built-in bluetooth support then I'm not interested. Anyone else agree/disagree?

Re:Bluetooth

[CrazyTalk]

OK, I'll bite and disagree - wtf do you want bluetooth for? Does ANYONE actually use bluetooth?

Re:Bluetooth

[bwhalen]

I neeed to agree here, bluetooth is just about irrelevant now. I see lots of people asking for it, but all the reasons I hear sound like things people should use laptops for. A pda is not a desktop replacement/office file editor/good game machine with that teeny screen.

Clie, better than you think...

[adzoox]

The p800 is lackluster in comparison. The 80v is one the best integrated gadgets you'll ever see (that is, if it's like NZ90) - While it does stink a little to have to buy a SD to Memory Stick or 6 in 1 reader so you can load programs - the Sony Clies are feature rich and finally got a lot of the AIO I/O right. The universal remote controls are very nice, just select the brands + there's good range. The wifi access and web browser is BEYOND any other offering on a PDA (albeit an addon) The camera is very high quality and a nice bonus. The Mp3 player is great and I've read will support AAC too. My only gripe is that one can't add GPS capabilities to a Clie, but I think that will change with the new Clies as they suppoet more types of compact flash.

In my opinion, a PDA is useless if it has any LESS features than the NZ90 or 80v and any less size of a screen that you can actually see and use. Running the Mac Emulator on a palm requires a nice screen. And now that Sharp went to an ugly less utilitarian design, this looks like the best choice on the market.

I think the 80v will have bluetooth, but it can be added via memory stick.

Re:Clie, better than you think...

[swv3752]

Sony provides a driver to turn the clie into a memorystick reader, though I'm not sure if the same will hold true with cf cards.

Re:Clie, better than you think...

[Anonymous Coward]

Most software comes on SD though for the Palm OS. So you have to have a media reader to tranfer from one flash media to another. Sony has already caved in, the 80v will allow memory storage and limited I/O storage for compact flash, which through adapter also means SD/MMC/XD.

Remember who makes the CLIE:

[vegetablespork]

Sony:

• RIAA member
• GPL violator
• DMCA wielder
• Freedom hater
• DRM purveyor

If you still want to buy toys from them, at least now you can't say you didn't know.

Re:Remember who makes the CLIE:

[bwhalen]

Hmm your post implies the register is somehow bad, when in reality you're restating the previous riaa argument. By the way, although I do think cd prices are excesive, the alternative is the death of music, since sales of cds would generate very little revenue if everyone downloaded/burned theirt copy.

Re:Remember who makes the CLIE:

[vegetablespork]

Didn't mean to say anything bad about the register--that's just where the story about the Churchill style "We'll firewall it at your ISP. We'll firewall it at your PC . . ." quote from the Sony exec. was.

none left for me!?

[Anonymous Coward]

hmmm.

sony page says:

The requested product is no longer available

did all of you buy one already?

Battery life.... Battery life!!!

[tprime]

Touching on what someone else said, the battery life is the biggest drawback on these devices. The current NX70 device has some issues in this respect

Normal PDA Usage: approx 5 hours
MP3 Player Usage: approx 3 hours
Wireless aceess (802.11b): LESS THAN 2 hours of continuous access

The truly innovative PDA will give you wireless access for close to the 5 hours of normal use. Sony will probably release it as the 3rd PDA they release in 2004.

Waste of time

[Moderation abuser]

I've tried the Sony machines, the Windows machines, the Zaurus machines and you know what?

They are years behind in terms of software. They certainly have impressive hardware specifications but the intelligence to make the best use of the hardware just isn't there. It's like giving a 400HP V8 supercar to a learner driver, all over the place. I reckon in another 5 years they may have something as usable as a Psion.

I've gone back to one of these:

http://www.psion.com/revo/images/Open_page.gif

It's a Psion Revo. Sure, it's only got a mono LCD screen, 16Mb of RAM a 36MHz CPU and is ancient by todays standards having been launched in 1999 making it 4 years old now, but you know what? The software is spot on.

The wordprocessor is fantastic, the agenda is still the best on the market, the spreadsheet fully functional but best of all, the user interface takes full account of the fact that the machine has limited screen space and doesn't waste any of it on window decorations trying to emulate the UI of desperately poor desktop operating systems.

Wanna get some work done? Look at that keyboard...

Who is your audience?

[mobileskimo]

I make no sides with either. I will point out your very flawed argument though.

Who is your audience for this lopsided argument. If it is to rally support for your fellow american and get a good "warm and fuzzy" from prideful statements, then don't bother reading the rest of this post.

If you your audience is for the Japanese lovers, then is your motive to rekindle the fire of abrasive attitudes?

While I would disagree with some of the comments that you've also balked at in your quotes, your comments are no more valid than theirs.

Your perspective on the average man's life cycle is limited in view and while your perspective highlights some attributes that you'd like to remind yourself and other haters, it doesn't highlight both sides of it, nor the american's. To give you an example, discipline is taught at an early age and is pervasive in the asian countries. I suppose you would think this has only negative impacts.

All of these incestuous industries and and corrupt politics (what you might determine are epidemic in all of asia) are accepted norms of what occurs in america, unaccepted. But nonetheless it occurs. It only takes a few news stories and the understanding of human nature (regardless of race) to suspect that greed and familiar relationships breeds corruption, anywhere you go.

Why do people have such trouble seeing people (both american and japanese, er... and every other race) and their cultures as being multifacetted. Thus every race has attributes that are conducive to some things and not to others. "Flaws" found in human nature are prevelant everywhere.

To answer the question...
Q: Why is Japan so much more advanced than the U.S. and other 1st world nations?

Obviously, there is something to it if this question was asked, and others have concurred. Or have you resigned this to collective misperception?

My question is
Q: Why is America so far behind in supplying consumer technology products than all other nations? Look at all your everyday gadgets that you use as proof. Look at what the Europeans and Asians use as comparison.

Re:Why is this moderated up?

[Ashen]

Like I said, I expect this in the Southern US, but didn't think I'd ever see it on Slashdot.

Now who is the one doing the stereotyping? I smell hypocrisy.

prayers

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh merciful lord, Please do not let the clock speeds of little bastard handheld exceed that of my desktop.

Amen.

They're becoming laptops

[swb]

They're jamming them with all of the features of a laptop, except a good keyboard and a nice display.

Frankly I'd find something like the Sony Picturebook or slightly smaller much more useful and about as portable.

Poor choice of phrasing, sorry

[Archfeld]

I did not mean to imply the device was crappy, I meant the DiVX resolution of a movie limited to 1gb would not be good. The device is actually kinda cool, but not breakthrough as you say, and certainly not 'new' enough to make me drop my existing pda and spend that much cash.

why?

[SCHecklerX]

Video is useless on a palm device. The first thing I did when I got my clie was get rid of the stupid movie player (or is that damned thing embedded in the os? I forget) and all of the sample stuff.

Re:why?

[Anonymous Coward]

I can put two episodes of the Simpsons on a 64MB MS card. Video on the Clie is hardly useless.

Get a small laptop

[bwhalen]

With all the features some of you are looking for, why not get a small laptop and use your phone as a (gasp) phone.

I cant wait...

[Dr Reducto]

I can't wait for a PDA with a video camera and a memory stick slot, do when the 1Gb memory sticks come out, piracy will be really easy.

160x112 video is deliberate...

[clicclic]

Sony knows the future of personal video is solid state machines like the NX70 / NX80 / etc... but they are SCARED TO DEATH of eating into their cash cow called DV cameras. The result: their nifty "PEO's" (Personal Entertainment Organizers) include better digital cameras but NOT better digital video recorders. Come on: 160x112!!! Who's kidding who!?

When Palms/Pocket PC's/Symbians/Linux include hard drives and MPEG4 chips, there will no longer be a need for DV/Sony DV tapes. Bad for Sony, good for little people.

I love my NX70 with its CF driver (thank you eruware!) but the video capability borders on ridiculous. The built-in mp3 player is nice and the 640x480 camera is fun too. But the video player -- what could be the coolest show-off -- is anemic.

This is all possibly irrelevant anyway because GSM phones will kill the PDA industry. Or significantly morph it. Although there will be some diehards out there who go the bluetooth route. I may be one of them. My next PDA will be the Tungsten C with the Bluetooth SD card (via expansys).

Re:I don't want a $600 uber-gadget, I want simplic

[73939133]

Not media, INFORMATION. Notes, meetings, phone numbers, addresses, ideas, sketches, references, URLS, passwords (encrypted natch). For me, this information is still B&W text and graphics. I want

There isn't much difference between high-res B&W and color, at least if Palm supported ClearType (which it doesn't, unfortunately): you might as well use the color screen.

And with the processing power you need to do encryption and PDF display, video rendering comes in for free.

Sorry, but these Clies are pretty much what you want; another good choice is the Sharp SL-C760. Either way, a decent PDA with a good screen will set you back about $600-$700. If you want something cheaper, smaller, and lighter than that, you'll have to wait a bit longer until technology catches up with your desires.

Re:I don't want a $600 uber-gadget, I want simplic

[enkidu]

Regarding color vs. B&W/greyscale, the big difference is in battery life, 2-3 days vs. 2-3 weeks. Regarding processing power, my Handera 330 (33MHz Dragonball) does the encryption/decryption of my passwords fine (as did my Palm III and my Palm Personal). The Clie's are too big and too power hungry. The Sharp SL-C760 is HUGE and is likewise power hungry. I'm looking for small, simple and useful.

Re:Why is this moderated up?

[yomegaman]

This reminds me of a story I saw in the Onion, it was called something like "Asian Teens Protest against Stereotyping". The teenagers were complaining that just because they were Asian people thought they were really smart and motivated to succeed, when really they just wanted to lie around all day smoking pot. It was hilarious.

"handheld market has been declining lately..."

[jav1231]

Hmmm $600 for a handheld? No..that couldn't be it.... >

Re:Battery life.... Battery life!!!

[pickity]

MP3 Player Usage: approx 3 hours

How about... no. Where did you get this figure from? I own a NX70V, and if you turn the screen off with the Hold button or flip the lid closed, the battery will last up to 13 hours playing MP3s. If you want to argue 3 hours with the screen on, I'd like to know why you're playing music with the screen on when you have a custom remote built to do whatever the interface does.

Anyway, the NX80 looks pretty nice, though it really isn't very innovative. More of an upgrade to the current NX70. $600 is a bit pricey, though I'm sure I can find one for $500 or so in a few weeks when the hype dies down a bit. I really wish they'd put Bluetooth in this though. That's really the biggest feature I miss from my Clie.

More wisdom from the blond-dreadlock crowd....

[ccmay]

just a reiteration of some of the nastier racist formulas

Well then, Shuji Nakamura must be a nasty anti-Japanese racist too, since he makes essentially the same arguments. I guess that's just 'drivel' to you, and never mind that he is the most accomplished Japanese scientist since Shinichiro Tomonaga.

Did you bother to read the link I provided? Would you please do so, and then also go read this white paper from a representative of the Japanese ministry of science and technology. It not only reiterates many of the same points I have made, but provides quantitative statistics and pertinent examples to back them up. Oh, and read this article from the Japan Times, too.

Nasty racism, indeed. Chirping politically-correct twits like you cheapen the term 'racist' and dishonor the memory of true victims of racism. You think calling someone a 'racist' or 'mean-spirited' or 'bourgeois' settles all arguments. Wait until you get out of college, you stupid little nose-picker, and see how things really are in the world.

-ccm

Re:More wisdom from the blond-dreadlock crowd....

[BJH]

Thanks for the unsubstantiated foulmouthing. As it happens, I live in Japan, and have for the last 14 years (a chunk of that was spent at universoty here, and a Japanese company). Which probably makes me slightly more aware of how Japan works than you and your 'friends'.

Now go crawl back into your parents' basement, and stop bothering those of us who actually bother to try and experience other countries instead of blindly repeating whatever opinions might happen to most closely match our prejudices.

get an ipaq

[Anonymous Coward]

from what I'm seeing, people want flexible software with more powerful and less spread-thin hardware.get an ipaq and install linux. or even better, a jornada 728.they have relatively large screens, decent battery life, and are both greatly expandable. I bought my ipaq used for $215, and it works great. familiar linux has many different connected systems for all of you types: a qt/qpe based palmtop-dedicated system that is deesigned for a small screen and has all the specifically-designed apps you could want, a gtk-based, more linux-y version, a stripped down pure linux system with normal windowmanagers for power users, and a base system for using apt-get and having the debian-ARM distribution for those with mass storage. the software can be tweaked to your heart's desire, and you have all the power you would ever want.

Not enough memory

[NaveWeiss]

àou àust ïe Ú'oking, right?