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CD Duplicator Refuses Linux Job, Citing MS Contract
Jonathon writes "Seems a Microsoft imposed restraint of trade agreement and concerns about the SCO suit have prevented a New Zealand company duplicating 500 CDs for our upcoming installfest. The installfest was mentioned on /. just days ago."
As one of the helpers for the installfest, I can say that this is pretty much only going to help our cause. We couldn't ask for better advertising (both the NZ Herald, and Slashdot).
We will be ready, Saturday, with plenty of CDs (we hope).
I use to have a funny sig, but slash cut it off, and I forgot what the punchline was.
52x writers are under $50USD and a 500 pack of cd-rs is probably well under $100, im sure they can get some volunteers to sit and burn all the discs needed.
Bill Gates did not become the world's most successful business by being dumb. He is doing a very good job using the whole SCO issue to take away people's confidence in Linux. He has done a nice job putting pressure on the CD copying company. He is hoping to make the name "Linux" synonymous with phrases like "infringing copyrights" and "illegal".
He is not stupid, and if Linux does not watch its back, the penguin might get slain, leaving the world without a reliable and secure OS.
Later, he said Microsoft's lawyers' advice was: "It's conjecture. It depends on who, what, when, the technology, and a whole bunch of things and the Herald is not a good place to get into a legal discussion." He went on to explain: Have you ever been pussy whipped by your girfriend? Well, if you have, you would understand our relationship with microsoft.
They can sell to whosoever they like. The situation would presumably be different if they had a monopoly (I say presumably because I don't know about New Zealand law) but that can't be said of CD duplication. It's essential that companies do have the right to refuse orders without giving reasons, because every order taken on involves some degree of commercial risk ranging from nonpayment to public liability. Were this not so, it would make for some interesting scams by dishonest buyers. The best protection for buyers is that salesmen as a breed want to be able to sell to anybody with money, and that provides a certain counterweighting to the caution of the legal and finance departments.
Panurge has posted for the last time. Thanks for the positive moderations.
Since this is under YRO, I figured I'd ask: whose rights are being violated here? (I can't see any rights violations)
This seems more like a story about how evil Microsoft is. And evil they are, which is why I neither purchase nor support their software.
Looks like they can't do anything for any of Microsoft's competitors ... but would linux itself really qualify as a competitor? I know there are many people who package distributions, but what if it was a non-commercial distro such as slackware they were trying to burn?
And as long as they mentioned SCO, I would love to see them driven into the ground for what they're doing.
Why yes I am paranoid! Thanks for asking!
but from where I sit, it's 5 hours ago tomorrow in NZ. when the programmers there put together a new build for me to test, I get 'software from the future'!
-calyxa
Decay! Decay! Decay! -Helium
Now you have ample ammo for suing SCO for libel, slander, defamation, etc...
Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
I think little by little, SCO's efforts to create FUD may inconvenience substantial numbers of people. It wouldn't be a bad idea for a website to be started, for keeping track of the myriad ways that SCO's threats of copyright infringement liability have caused tangible expense and inconvenience.
It would be a good knowledge base to have, and might come in handy for purposes of a potential class-action suit against SCO, if the company's claims of infringement are found by the courts to be without merit. In any case, this would be one way to give SCO's backers some FUD of their own.
I'm generally "Interesting," "Insightful," and even "Funny" here. What the hell happens to me at parties?
Besides, SCO has claimed that every single modern operating system (except Sun, they are quick to point out), is at similar risk. How could a CD company stay in business if they refused to duplicate anything McBride said was his?
Litigious bastards
Linux Community Refuses to Give Business to CD Duplicator, Citing Questionable Ethics
This is further proof that the SCO debacle is hurting the image of Linux in the marketplace and in the eyes of the consumer. SCO may not have a sound case, but they are causing a lot of confusion about the legality of Linux.
There's also the part of the contract with Microsoft. This company is obviously not going to risc their probably very important economic ties to Microsoft for a mere 500 cd copy job -- no sane business person would -- but yet again we see evidence that the strong arm tactic Microsoft has employed since the DOS days (anyone remember DR DOS?) is still very much a part of their modus operandi.
I do not think that the SCO case made them refuse the job. When I read the article, the SCO case gives them an excuse not to do the CD duplication (of a small number, 500, of CDs).
They lose almost nothing, while they are sucking up to M$, possibly gaining much more with the obfuscated licensing. I assume M$ will gladly pay their losses, considering the press coverage this thing will get.
Genius doesn't work on an assembly line basis. You can't simply say, "Today I will be brilliant."
No empire lasts forever, are the masses at the gates of the castle yet?
No, but the masses have surrounded the castle of Gates!
Forget thrust, drag, lift and weight. Airplanes fly because of money.
This is of course total BS. If MS does somehow have a hand in this, maybe it's time to get SCO out of the way after all. The longer they stay around, even though their case against IBM is close to vapour, the longer MS can trick these companies into believing the FUD - they probably don't know any better, who can blame them?
My $0.02.
zWhat would an EWOULDBLOCK block, if an EWOULDBLOCK could block would? -- me
"And a voice was screaming: 'Holy Jesus! What are these goddamn animals?'" - HST
I'm reminded of the English tradition of Knighthood. Where some subject becomes a knight and is granted
dominion over a parcel of land.
Microsoft granted this company so many parcels of foo, so long as they upheld Microsoft's honor. And on a larger scale, Isn't dominion what was promised to the RIAA, Media Cartels, others, in exchange for their "loyalty"?
Maybe I stretch things too far. But it seems the power of the common man has dwindled to nothing outside of a small space that's been allotted. Any attempts to reach beyond this space are met with resistance and punishment.
All these guys wanted to do was duplicate some cd's.
But that activity appears to be outside the domain Microsoft is willing to grant them. How have we gotten into the situation where we must beg persmission to do mundane tasks like this?
Is the large scale duplication of information getting to be a little too risque' for the peons? Gotta keep an eye on stuff like that now?
The box that makes up our collective free will is getting smaller and smaller as each cubic centimeter is parcelled off to the Knights of Modern Royalty.
every linux supporter is somehow being effected by this SCO/Linux issue. Even YOU as a system admin. or programmer are. I mean i am a linux programmer where i work, and devlopers form the other side(MS dev.) keep on asking, whats up with this SCO thing, so are you planning to go back to Visual c with a wide smile.. . PERIOD..out of subject..
what i wanted to say is, companies like IBM, SUN, Oracle, Redhat, Suse and others are losing money, credability, business, and are instead gaining lots of headache, questions, bla bla bla...
Why the fuck dont they just group, put an end to it. They already spent billions in investments on Linux, espically IBM and Oracle(who supported Linux clustering), if they care for their business and investments, they should act, and FAST, before this thing really grows and starts to actually draw back customers who had linux on their considered solution list, knowing that Linux opened new business grounds for them, and they cant deny it, they owe linux exactly s much as linux owed them...
The lunatic is in my head
and not tell my electricity supply company that I use Linux at home, just in case they decide that because some of my neighbours run M$ boxes, that they can't supply me with power any more.
The problem can easily be solved by picking up a few of these CD burners. 500 CDs? No problem!
... I can say that this is pretty much only going to help our cause
I'd say so. I downloaded Knoppix last night after the previous installfest story piqued my interest.
Things to note:
I've used Micosoft software since I started using PCs.
I'd never used any version of Linux before.
I was very impressed with what I saw.
Congratulations guys, you just gained a brand spanking new Linux user.
One can usually discriminate however one wants, with the exception of certain sorts of discrimination that are prohibited. You can kick someone out of your restaurant because you think they're an ass and personally dislike them, but you can't kick someone out of your restaurant because they're black and you personally dislike black people. In some countries there are exceptions to this for private clubs (e.g. the Masters can prohibit women, and the Boy Scouts can prohibit atheists and homosexuals).
But in any case, this case is completely unrelated to that, as it's about restraint of trade and anti-competitive business practices (if it's about anything at all).
10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10
i'm usually amazed how seldom people will resort to boycotts.
whilst i would have no doubt that MS are obviously a large part of their business, it is obvious that no business survives with just one good horse in their stable.
with a good enough word-of-mouth campaign it should be possible to inform local businesses and companies of the boycott, inform them of other options, and thus remove a chunk of their potential business.
500 cds may not hurt their purse strings, but 100 x 500 will.
do we forget just how much power we have?
And finally the Linux community realizes that the SCO case is to be taken seriously...
-- Cheers!
As a Linux user myself for many years I now see the sideeffects of Open Source myself and started to eye for alternative Operating Systems such as MorphOS (Pegasos), MacOSX, BeOS Zeta and Microsoft Windows. There are various reasons for me to do this.
a) The Open Source community used to be a nice one, the philosophy of it was valued high in the first couple of years but meanwhile the entire situation has changed. Companies are trying to protect their IP, other companies don't work fair with the Open Source company by not backporting their changes in the original sources and so on.
b) The audience changed totally, you need to deal with more and more complaining and ranting people every day. People that are always dis-satisfied regardless what you do. Even I as Programmer need to deal with these people. I spent my time writing the programms, fixing bugs, answering technical emails, pay for the Webspace, offer the software and yet you need to deal with dis-satisfied people all overwhere which leads into demotivation of doing something better.
c) Many people wandered off from Linux and Open Source by using alternative Systems (preferabely MacOSX) thus they have a working, aesthetical, nice, round and standardized desktop environment with all tested tools. They can get their work done and don't care for Linux and it's Open Source that much anymore as they initially did. A lot of people started to work a lot less on Open Source because they don't see the need to do this anymore because they get all the software with better quality offered on their alternative System.
Here an example: A lot of GNOME developer moved away working on MacOSX these days and don't look back, while they still help with various fixes, coding etc. they still do this as funjob, they don't see the need to work as hard to make a good Desktop because they have a Microsoft independant OS (MacOSX) which offers them everything and more than GNOME for example. Of course they also see the points written by me here with all the ranting people, no fair play of companies and the general demotivation.
Face it, we all like to be honoured for our work, we all like to hear 'thank you' from the people outside that we spent our time working our ass off on the tools we offer. But the reality is that we deal more with complaining people rather than people who said 'thank you'. We all like to earn some money with what we do. Look, we sit down the entire day, weeks, months working on the Tool, we pay for Webspace and more and we don't even get the money back for the Webspace we pay once per year.
Open Source is indeed a nice thing but the times has heavily changed, complaining users, demotivation, dirty play with companies, sueing of people who wrote Open Source applications like the freecraft person. A very nice game and now it's not available anymore because he got is ass sued off.
Think about it, is it really worth the trouble ? We should concentrate back to the old roots and try making some bucks with our work, getting the webspace paid, stop the insanity with open source. it's a good idea but the license is only a hype. Like everyone can fork the code and release his own version of the software which only ends in 20 derivates which each of them still doesn't do the work it was aimed for. Not to mention that we all are individual people who work for fame, for money for being someone in the community. You work on the software because you love it because you never think about someone comming up forking it and then one day you see a derivate of your work floating around in the community and you get heavily pissed off and stop working on it and feel disappointed and have thoughts in your head saying 'what did i do wrong, why did this person fork my software' and so on. Please don't understand me wrong, think back the time when emacs got forked to xemacs. Or think back when KDE Desktop got heavily trashed by RedHat. You are itching at the egos of people with this. It's really better to start thinking about new and better ways and search for an alternative work on an alternative System.
From the article:
Roberts said the contract with Software Images did not contain anything that prevented Software Images working with the Open Source Society or pressing Linux CDs "or anything like that".
He said Software Images made their decision before talking to Microsoft "for their own reasons".
"It's very much a Coke/Pepsi situation. If you are an ad agency dealing with Pepsi you don't pick up business with Coke."
When the Herald pointed out that Open Source software was a competitor to Microsoft, Roberts said: "I guess so, but the NZ Open Source Society isn't."
Thank you Mario! But our princess is in another castle!
"It's very much a Coke/Pepsi situation. If you are an ad agency dealing with Pepsi you don't pick up business with Coke."
Um... I work for an ad agency, and our company deals with both of the above mentioned companies. We work around the possible problems by having different teams work with the individual companies. (I think this is semi-public knowledge, but I'm posting AC anyhow, to be on the safe side.)
That said, the deal with Software Images is just a hiccup, lost business for them. I'm sure there is a long list of other companies that will duplicate for them without any trouble at all. Move on, nothing to see here.
That's right, New Zealand businesses! Software Images has helped you make a decission towards reliable outsourcing for your data duplication needs. If you need an outfit who can be trusted to handle your order, even important rush orders, Software Solutions is not your provider.
Data duplication is an important last step to any project that requires physical media for distribution. You need to know that your order is accepted and being handled and processed quickly, efficiently, and reliably. At Software Images, your data duplication order may be green-flagged by their expert account managers... only to be refused at a later date.
Your order may be refused because, on a "case by case basis", the data in question might be considered in competition with Microsoft. And as Microsoft continues to reach in to new sectors and attach new niches... who's to say if one is in direct competition or not? But you'll find out. After your order has been rejected and you are forced to scramble for another outsource provider.
Your order may also be refused if an industry competitor makes unfounded alligations as to owner of the intellectual property contained in your duplication order. No need to wait for a court ruling. No need for proof of a currently valid license. Your important job will be rejected, leaving your business high and dry.
In this tough economy, every business needs reliable outsource providers. They need to know that services will be there for that important job or rush order.
With Software Images, you won't know.
Software Images. They're not there for you. They're there for their major account - Microsoft.
An eye punctured with shards of flying CD, of course. Hillary can oversee the whole operation! But only for a minute...AHHH!
>;C MY EYES!
"Software Images' account manager Dean Baker...backtracked, saying there may be an issue due to a "replication agreement" with Microsoft."
So they're in bed with MS, that's why they don't want to promote Linux. The SCO FUD is just an excuse; they just don't want to upset MS.
Still, we all know what happens to companies that get in bed with MS. Eventually MS f**ks them.
Malaysia being the world's #1 producer of PIRATED CDs, VCDs, and CD-ROMs, has more than enough talent and capacity to make ANY NUMBER of high quality CD, even in a short order.
The cost of making CDs in Malaysia is EXTRA-ORDINARILY LOW - amount to LESS THAN USD 0.25 per CD, with quantities of 500 or more.
No, I am NOT a CD pirate. I just know enough people who are in this line of "work" to know the cost.
Not only the cost is low, the CDs they produce are also of high quality - rejection rate of less than 0.5 %, and turn around time can be as short as 5 days.
And since it is NEVER ILLEGAL to make Linux CD-ROMs, legality wise there shouldn't be ANY PROBLEM.
So, next time if you wanna make CDs, or you have a rush job and still want to have high quality CDs made, give Malaysia a call.
You won't be disappointed !
Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
Of angry villagers, marching up the road with pitchforks and torches in hand.
Er, what's the name of that street in Redmond??
I think Microsoft made a big mistake with the whole SCO thing. The more people are aware of licenses and the more people understand the GPL, the worse Microsoft looks in comparison.
The SCO case does hurt Linux in the short term, that's for sure. But in the long term, it will be just a confirmation of what many already know: That users of GPLed software are much safer from legal problems than users of commercial software.
With the millions of shares Microsoft executives sell constantly, maybe they don't care about the long term...
The problem isn't one of piracy - you can't pirate GNU / Linux - it's free. The fact is MS-SCO is spreading their FUD globally (where I live, Gartner is actively carrying the SCO FUD). Joe ServicePack's attention span and analytical-skills must not be over-estimated.
By moving the CD copying to Malaysia, it's sort of implied that there's some pirating going on here! Newbies to Linux don't need this FUD - it could deter a few of them from joining the fest.
Yesterday's interview, McBride stated that the case is entering a 'discovery' phase - this clearly indicates that SCO is only interested in FUD, and not a quick court action. It would help if more countries follow the example of Germany, Poland and others in exposing SCO's conduct, and seek penalties for future instances of FUD.
If you keep throwing chairs, one day you'll break windows....
They are also actively promoting Linux to businesses who are looking for alternatives to microsoft during the latest software piracy crackdown.
Pirates have brought linux to Malaysia! Pirates aren't that bad after all ;)
Well, that's a bit too late, recent police and government crackdowns have more or less crippled these duplication rings. I know, I live in Malaysia where everyone is complaining about not being to buy VCDs or DVDs for less than USD2.00 anymore (at least not easily :) Yes, what you want are LEGAL duplications as opposed to the illegal pirated ones, but the point is that the cheap CD makers are the pirates and their machines have just been consfiscated, so tough.
Well, if they won't let people copy Linux CDs because of MS, send an XP cd and ask for 500 copies...
I am TheRaven on Soylent News
I bet if I walked in there with a copy of UT 2003 and asked for 500 copies of it they would say: "No problem, mr Smith"
Yesterday Software Images declined to do the job, citing intellectual property concerns.
When questioned by the Herald on Friday, Software Images chief executive Allan Morton said his company's wariness of Linux was due to legal action between SCO and Linux over intellectual property issues.
Shouldn't legal contracts be clear? Or is eaving plenty of weasel-room a tactic by lawyers to leave room for the FUD to spread.
The replicators are probably loving all the harsh publicity they are getting in Slashdot and around the Linux community, anything they do to upset and aggrivate the Open Source world will probably score them bonus points with Microsoft. The more we bitch about them here, the more Microsoft will love them.
However, they'll need to be careful, dealing with Microsoft is not something I would envy - I met someone once who used to work with them, and he told me that ".. the only time M$ wouldn't piss all over you is if you were on fire."
Jolyon
Please read my Canon EOS tech blog at http://www.everyothershot.com
What I don't understand is why (and yes I'm going to make an offtopic "Why didn't MY submission make it?" comment) this story is a big deal, when MS just hikacked tens of thousands of computers to be sold by the Thai government with Linux pre-installed by offering Windows to purchasers for 250 Baht (about US$6). There were supposed to be a hundred thousand Linux computers by December, and now there will be, like zero. Check my journal for the details.
Put identity in the browser.
This is anti-competitive behaviour.
i -c ompetitive%20practices%20final.pdf
Raising Your Concerns by Contacting the Commission
Readers who are aware of behaviour that appears to breach the Commerce Act can forward information to the Commission. The Commission will consider this information and, if appropriate, initiate an investigation.
The Commission also carries out its own market monitoring and surveillance activities. An investigation that identifies a breach of the Commerce Act may lead to the Commission taking one of a range of actions, including prosecuting businesses in the High Court. Actions the Commission can take are outlined in the Commission Processes section of this publication.
To contact the Commission with information:
Telephone 0800 94 3600
Write to:
Contact Centre
Commerce Commission
P O Box 2351
Wellington
Email: contact@comcom.govt.nz
http://www.comcom.govt.nz/publications/pdfs/ant
Put Software Images out of business.
1. Offer the binaries without a corresponding offer for the source code.
2. Hijack the ship coming from Malaysia with all the linux cd's. Equipment you'll need: eyepatch, parrot, pegleg, makeshift plank for the crew to walk, silly accent. Say "Yarrrrrr!" a lot and complain about scurvy.
microsoftword.mp3 - it doesn't care that they're not words...
>It's ironic that people will go to illegal channels as the most efficient way to get that which is free and legal anyway
No, it's ironic that most people, including the justice department that brought the action against them, still use products from a company convicted of illegally leveraging a monopoly.
If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
just wait until you buy a shiny new piece of hardware and install it... or a game... i wouldn't delete that windows install just yet
Plenty of shiny new hardware breaks Windows -- in fact, so does a lot of old hardware.
I play Quake, Unreal Tournament, America's Army, etc. on Linux. Can't think of any better games that I'd want to play on Linux -- nor any that I can't.
Are you just a lttle behind the times? Fear is usually fought with fear; There's nothing more fearful, at times, than change.
Get your facts straight, kiddo. It is not like Bill inherited a railroad empire from Dad, he build the godammed illegal monopoly from ground up, starting from a 3 man operation back in the seventies. You may question his business ethics, his excessive greed or whatever, but thinking he can't outsmart most of us with his hands tied and his eyes closed is dumb (and dangerous - underestimating the enemy is the fastest path to a unforgettable defeat).
I wonder if they denied to press Microsoft's discs when Microsoft was litigating the case brought against them by Caldera or the case with the DOJ.
-Hi, Malaysia? Is this Malaysia?
-Yes sir. You have reached the tourist center for Malaysia. How may I help you?
-I need 500 CDs burned fast!
-Excuse me sir?
-Like I said, I need 500 CDs burned and shipped before Saturday. I read about your country's amazing capabilities to do something like this on Slashdot and I figured I'd give it a shot.
-I'm sorry sir, this is a tourist hotline.
-Don't get smart with me, buddy. I know for a FACT that all you guys up in Malaysia are in the CD pirating business. Don't make me turn you in.
-I'd be happy to refer you to our Business Bureau.
-You don't get it! I don't want a bureau. I want some CDs. Legal CDs! Linux CDs! And you guys have to make them.
-I'm sorry sir, but I just can't help you.
-Sheesh. What do I need to do to get your country to make some CDs for me? Do I need to bribe you?
-Sir, you'll have to contact someone else for your needs. I can't help you.
-Sure you can. You're from Malaysia, and Malaysia makes CDs. Now what's it gonna take? Twenty dollars? A few shiny trinkets? You Malaysians go for that kind of stuff, right?
-<click>
IWARS.
People, in general, disappoint me. Politicians even more so.
"It's very much a Coke/Pepsi situation. If you are an ad agency dealing with Pepsi you don't pick up business with Coke."
BS. This is more like telling some local kids with a lemonade stand that you can't help them because Pepsi doesn't like the competition.
A new family has just moved into the neighborhood. They're a hippie bunch, they all work different jobs, and even the kids work around the house to help out. Mommy says they're kinda low-class.
The primary purpose of the GNU organization is to create free software based on valuable commercial software.
Translation: "Mommy, that new kid wants my spot on the team. He's picking on me."
As long as the Linux development process remained uncoordinated and random, it posed little or no threat to SCO...
Translation: "Hee Hee The new kid sucks."
IBM initiated a course of conduct with the purpose and effect of using Linux to unfairly compete in the enterprise market.
Translation: "That new kid's kicking my ass. Cheater!!!"
It is not possible for Linux to rapidly reach UNIX performance standards for complete enterprise functionality without the misappropriation of UNIX code, methods or concepts to achieve such performance, and coordination by a larger developer, such as IBM.
Translation: "My mommy bought me a whole home gym and personal trainer. That new kid must be using steroids."
And, finally, this quote from IBM with which SCO takes issue in their complaint: ?IBM will put US $1 billion this year into Linux, the free operating system.
Translation: "Hey! That new kid just got recruited by State!"
Which makes the summary of the whole suit:
"Mommy! Waaaa!!!"
"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, it doesn't go away." - Philip K. Dick
FUD = Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt.
GAMES = God Always Makes Engineers Suffer