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Panther Analysis Getting Underway

Durin_Deathless writes "Think Secret has posted their first article analyzing the changes from Mac OS X 10.2 to 10.3. In this first installment, they look at the changes to the Installation, System Requirements, the Finder, and some other things. They have some nice images available too."

65 of 463 comments (clear)

  1. "They have some nice images available too." by PhoenixK7 · · Score: 3, Funny

    Translation: It'll only take 5 seconds to slashdot 'em.

    1. Re:"They have some nice images available too." by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Wrong question.

      The right one is: Did anyone mirror the images and is dumb enough to post link on slashdot?

    2. Re:"They have some nice images available too." by drinkypoo · · Score: 5, Funny

      They are well-slashdotted at this point. I guess the name of the site is appropriate though. "This website will self-destruct in five seconds."

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  2. Well, that alieviates my main worry by squiggleslash · · Score: 4, Interesting
    While the format of a Places sidebar won't appeal to everyone, just as column view doesn't appeal to everyone, Apple is providing users with a number of ways to customize the look and function of windows. A user who simply wants a plain window with no toolbar or sidebar, with basic folder icons that open up new windows when clicked, like in Mac OS 9, can still do that.
    That's a real relief. It's not that Panther's new system isn't better (I don't know if it is or not), but when one's been using a particular, familiar, system since the Commodore Amiga, it's good to know that system is still available if I turn out not to like Panther's new way of doing things.

    That really was the only worry I had. I don't have strong views on Brushed Metal, I like the lower-key stripes I've seen, so I'll almost certainly upgrade.

    --
    You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
  3. Panther before LongHorn?? by jkrise · · Score: 5, Funny

    Looks like reverse bio-engineering. Predators normally come after the prey!

    --
    If you keep throwing chairs, one day you'll break windows....
  4. Brushed metal by Bob+Wehadababyitsabo · · Score: 3, Informative

    I'm disappointed that Apple has forced the extremely ugly brushed metal on us. Aqua is beautiful; why dilute that beauty by replacing it with some ugly, unrealistic looking texture?

    Isn't Apple violating it's own HIG by making the Finder metal? I though you could only make programs that emulate physical devices metal.

    --
    fsck -u
    1. Re:Brushed metal by Mikey-San · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It was supposed to be for apps that emulate or interface with real-world devices.

      But you know, the Human Interface Guidelines are just that--guidelines. They aren't scripture.

      Then again, where are we without rules to follow? UI consistency is worth the effort, right?

      I find these both interesting ideas, not really subscribing to the HIG as the Bible and not really seeing them as something to look at but not pay attention to.

      Thoughts? :-)

      --
      Mikey-San
      Karma: +Eleventy billion (mostly affected by watching Celebrity Jeopardy)
  5. Brushed Metal window frames by terraformer · · Score: 4, Informative

    I just hope Apple makes the brushed metal window frames optional/themeable/skinable etc. Apparently (as per a recent /. article as this one's /.'ed) they are not customizable and more importantly they are not just limited to Apple apps the way that Safari, et al is today in 10.2. All apps pick up the new look and some of us are not into that new look as much.

    --
    Who are you? The new #2 Who is #1? You are #617565. I am not a number, I am a free man! Muhahaha.
    1. Re:Brushed Metal window frames by Arslan+ibn+Da'ud · · Score: 5, Informative

      You can easily enable/disable the brushed-metal theme on OSX apps, Apple or third-party. See here for details.

      --

      Practice Kind Randomness and Beautiful Acts of Nonsense.

    2. Re:Brushed Metal window frames by squiggleslash · · Score: 3, Informative
      You don't absolutely need a third party app, in general, at least not for Cocoa apps or some OS X only Carbon apps.

      Install the developer tools if you haven't already. Right click on the App you want to change, and select Show Package Contents. Go into Contents->Resources, and then look for .nib files both in that directory and the English.lproj (or whatever language you're using.)

      By opening the .nibs, you can edit all aspects of the windows relating to them. Use the Info window to select/deselect the brushed metal theme.

      FWIW, I think Safari looks better with the Aqua look.

      --
      You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
    3. Re:Brushed Metal window frames by robbieduncan · · Score: 5, Informative

      In general this is true (it works on Safari on Panther for example). Unfortunatly the Finder.app bundle does not appear to contain a nib file for the main Finder window. It contains a load of other nibs though. It looks like the main windows are created programatically so are not as easy to swich back to aqua.

  6. This looks like a strong release by cuijian · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I'm really excited about Panther. The finder screen shots make it look like they have really gotten file navigation right. Previous iterations were too geeky, exposing the average user to /Library, /System, and /Users when most people just want to get to their documents and applications.

    Expose is a great example of the combination of Apple's design sense and what you can do with the Quartz compositing engine. Windows scale down so you can see all of your open windows, or all of the documents in an application. I don't think its even technically possible to do that on windows because they lack an alpha channel.

    I've used iChat AV and it is soooo much better than windows messenger. Unlike messenger, which forces me to a single postage-stamp sized video window, I can scale my video to any size and even go full screen. Audio conferencing seems to be pretty clear and will be great for when I'm on dial-up or talking to someone w/o a camera.

    I can't wait to see more.

    1. Re:This looks like a strong release by Brother+Grifter · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Windows had an alpha channel since windows 2000. It's just not hardware accelerated like Jaguar (and soon Panther).

      From what I've seen of Longhorn, it has abilities similar to Quartz Extreme. For example, they have a rippling window demo they showed at MS's last conference.

      But how useful is rippling windows? I think in general, when it comes to technology, it's not a matter of who has the best tech, but who uses their tech in the most useful way, which Apple seems to do.

    2. Re:This looks like a strong release by Arslan+ibn+Da'ud · · Score: 5, Funny
      Imagine being able to place windows anywhere around your head that you liked, or perhaps all over your room, and then manipulating them by hand rather than by mouse.

      I don't want to think about where pop-up ads are going to appear! If they can appear anywhere in my room, at least.

      And the only way to deal with them will probably still involve only my middle finger!

      --

      Practice Kind Randomness and Beautiful Acts of Nonsense.

  7. Expose! by OmniVector · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I've been using the Panther preview for about a week now. and I have to say that Expose is one of the coolest ideas in the past few years I've seen come out of apple.

    It basically eliminates the need for multiple desktops. I'm sure you're probably saying: "Well why not just use multiple desktops in the first place." The best answer to that is, apple likes to make simple/easy to use software. Multiple desktops are too much of a poweruser feature, and are confusing to use for the first time for many -- and that first time is KEY to adoption (afterall, the first impression you get about something is most likely to be the most important). Much like apple's aversion to tabbed interfaces, though tabbed browsing is one of those exceptions apple can't get past because it's too entrenched in browsers today.

    I can give you more info but you're best looking at apple's preview.

    --
    - tristan
    1. Re:Expose! by squiggleslash · · Score: 4, Informative
      One of the underdocumented features of the dock is that if you Option-Command-Click any of the icons, all other windows are hidden and that app's items are unhidden. Of course, it's probably less nice for people using a seperate mouse (I have an IBM trackpoint keyboard.)

      This was the final "I really don't need multiple desktops" shortcut for me. But you're right, it looks like Expose puts another nail in that coffin.

      --
      You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
    2. Re:Expose! by nullard · · Score: 3, Informative

      That's not undocumented. That has been the standard functionality of the OS since at least System 7.0. Holding down option while activating an app hides the app you just left. Command-Option activating an app shows only that app.

      --


      t'nera semordnilap
    3. Re:Expose! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      Expose yourself, buddy. The friendly people at the ISO toiled for years just so we could type Exposé on Slashdot.

      (PS Slashdork hackers: fix HTML entities. Thank you).

  8. Images by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    "They have some nice images available too."

    had

  9. Some interesting questions by Dark+Paladin · · Score: 5, Interesting

    1. Since the filesystem is journaled by default, can you turn it off later for a speed increase, or is this part of Panther's necessary tweaks?

    2. The searching system - does it maintain some sort of small database in the background to keep things fast, or just start off with a "find" style command?

    3. Right now, you can't seem to drag documents onto the Application Icons on the left side to have them open automatically - any chance of that changing?

    Otherwise, the OS is looking pretty good. I still spend most of my time in either a development tool or the command line, so I'm not that big into Finder and the like. (A good old ~/do[TAB]/pro[TAB] gets me to my ~/Documents/Projects folder quite fast enough).

    But I do like the idea of when you select an icon, the entire square around it highlights. I've had too many times I've selected image files, and since OS X makes little thumbnail images of the picture the icon symbol, sometimes it's hard to tell if you've selected it or not (especially if the picture is already composed of dark shades).

    And labels - I never used OS 9 before (I'm a Linux2OSX convert), so I never got the big deal. But if they're bright and noticable like that, I can see using them to color code my personal/work/Gameforms.com stuff for quick picking.

    The one thing I'm curious to look into is the Xcode development program - from the preview, it looks pretty quick and useful. Think Secret doesn't cover that here, and probably won't, but the Xcode is the #1 thing I'd like to play with.

    I'd also like to see the "auto-encrypt your Home directory" talked about. From a security standpoint, I'd like to know just how that works, how much processor power it takes up in the background (hm - explains why we may need a G5, ne?). I have a group of guys at the place I work at who are into Penetration Testing, and they're thinking about going OS X - and this Encrypted Home Directory system might be useful to them. (Especially if you can tell the OS what other directories other than /User/username to encrypt.)

  10. Re:I love the Places sidebar! by nattt · · Score: 5, Funny

    Copy and paste works great. I've been using this forever with OS X.

    --
    -- oldthinkers unbellyfeel ingsoc
  11. LOL by 2nd+Post! · · Score: 5, Funny

    In case you didn't realize it, the Finder is supposed to be the computer, in a user-centric model.

    So the physical device the Finder emulates... is your computer :)

    1. Re:LOL by Thuktun · · Score: 3, Funny

      In case you didn't realize it, the Finder is supposed to be the computer, in a user-centric model. So the physical device the Finder emulates... is your computer :)

      So why not indicate that through a more appropriate name than "Finder".

      How about, say, "My Computer"...

      (ducks and runs)

  12. XCode Screencaps by evil+carrot · · Score: 5, Informative

    This Funmac.com thread has a bunch of shots of the new XCode development package. Both Project Builder and Interface Builder are featured at great length.

    --

    I am not who I say you are.
  13. Re:interesting by platypus · · Score: 5, Funny

    I haven't seen anyone mention this, but I realized the other day that since Jaguar is fully 32-bit, you should be able to take 64-bit hardware and run two full instances of Jaguar on it in parallel.

    Hmm, I'd like to know what kind of esoteric idea of "bitness" of cpus let's you conclude that.
    At least, you seem to share it with one moderator.

  14. I don't think it works that way. by MarcQuadra · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I don't think it really works that way, but running two instances of any PPC OS should be easy with Mac-On-Linux. MOL is like VMWare for the PPC, you can open a full-speed non-emulated Classic session INSIDE Linux, you can also boot it to OSX. I'm pretty sure you could boot multiple sessions as well. With XFree you could even use a mac running linux as a multi-client Mac OS terminal server.

    So what you're asking is already possible with 32-bit PPC systems.

    --
    "Sometimes, I think Trent just needs a cup of hot chocolate and a blankie." -Tori Amos on Nine Inch Nails
  15. Directory encryption already availiable by SuperKendall · · Score: 4, Informative

    Here's at least one way do encrypt your home directory in Jaguar - a little less tricky is encrypting only particular directories like you speak of. I believe it is done by mounting an encrypted volume, so if you don't log in no other user will be able to see the directory contents.

    I think in Panther they just made this feature accessible "to the rest of us" with no trickery to make it work. Perhaps they wanted to wait for a journaled file system to make this feature official, lest people accidentally corrupt a whole encrypted directory bundle...

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
  16. Re:interesting by avalys · · Score: 4, Funny

    Ok, it doesn't work that way. That's like saying two arms is better than one because you can reach things twice as far away.

    Just like having two arms, having 64 bits is an advantage, but not for the reasons you state.

    --
    This space intentionally left blank.
  17. OK, so you've got a new Finder... by hrbrmstr · · Score: 3, Interesting

    As the rest of the song goes "that don't impress me much".

    I'm a recent "switchbacker" (used Mac from Plus to early PowerMac's and just got a dual G4). Since it's a ".#" release, I wasn't expecting a ton of major changes (since that should be a "#." release). However, this is the second review I've seen that spends the majority of it's time on the Finder. Wow. A new Finder.

    I know things are different in Mac land (one reason I switched back), but not being an insider or able to attend the conference (hence, no preview copy), I'd really love to start seeing more authoritative articles on what kinds of 64-bit goodness is there for the G5's or a thorough coverage of what cool parts of FreeBSD 5 made it into Darwin/X.

    Granted, it's a different perspective (I'm perfectly happy cd'ing and ls'ing from a terminal). Perhaps most Mac folks will be cheering a decent upgrade to their main view of the system.

    I can't help thinking, tho, that alot of Mac /.'ers will want the inside skinny as opposed to hearing that the Finder can't be skinned (tho that's a fun complaint since I'd rather not stare at brushed metal all the time either).

    --
    Mind the gap...
  18. Re:Now with nice images! by Mikey-San · · Score: 5, Funny

    Pretty pictures are better than white, monospaced error text on a big blue background. ;-)

    --
    Mikey-San
    Karma: +Eleventy billion (mostly affected by watching Celebrity Jeopardy)
  19. This is the kind of feature that we want to see... by WIAKywbfatw · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I've not seen it in action, but Expose strikes me as being the kind of feature that we want to see in our operating systems and applications - like most real software innovations, it's quick, simple and does something useful.

    Features like tabbed browsing, mouse gestures, show desktop, context-sensitive help, tooltips, etc don't add to what you can acheive with your software but they do add to the richness of your user-experience by making software more flexible and user-friendly.

    Very few computing tasks are truly intuitive - if you want proof of this, try putting a novice in front of a PC and watch them struggle with even the most basic concepts - but adding nice touches like this really do help users feel more at ease with their computers and more productive in the long run.

    It's not earth-shattering stuff but it's stuff like this that's made today's software so much more accessible to the masses than it was 20 or even 10 years ago.

    --

    "Accept that some days you are the pigeon, and some days you are the statue." - David Brent, Wernham Hogg
  20. Re:interesting by moonbender · · Score: 3, Funny
    Also, as cool as Panther looks, I expect Jaguar to stick around for a while yet. I haven't seen anyone mention this, but I realized the other day that since Jaguar is fully 32-bit, you should be able to take 64-bit hardware and run two full instances of Jaguar on it in parallel. Give each instance its own CPU on a dual G5 system, and you have two fully functional OS X systems running in real time on a single boxen!
    Running two (32- or 64-bit) processes in parallel on a dual-CPU machine, okay. But running two 32-bit processes in parallel on one 64-bit CPU? Um, no, that's not how it works. In fact, it's so stupid an idea that I am willing to think that I am misreading your message and it's not even what you meant.

    I'm also not sure why exactly a typical user would want to run two operating systems on a single machine, especially not if it's the same OS in both cases and none is virtual. Meh.
    --
    Switch back to Slashdot's D1 system.
  21. 1 WEEK WITH PANTHER by zensmile · · Score: 5, Informative

    I have been using Panther for a week and have found many good improvements.

    1. File browser (a la windows) is fast and can be changed back to a "normal" window.

    2. Expose is brilliant. Though it may conflict with the screensaver settings when corners are used. I personally like using the f-keys for expose and the corners for the screensaver (activation and deactivation).

    3. Faxing is as easy as printing and saving as PDF. You can also have received faxes mailed or printed. Faxing is very very easy in 10.3.

    4. Preview.app is faster and works in a similar fashion as Acrobat Reader. Nice.

    5. Fast user switching is just brilliant (graphically). It will be very useful when you have a shared machine.

    6. Secure "Empty Trash" is a nice feature. I am not sure if I will use it...but someone in my office thinks it is the Holy Grail. I am not that excited about it...but it is probably useful.

    7. Color Coded Folders/Files (the text is color coded in actuality) is nice and saves me time when digging for a file or group of files.

    8. The "eject" menu icon in the right hand side of the menu bar is interesting. But it only worked with the drive tray. It would be nice if it would eject mounted items and servers.

    9. User customization of desktop pics and colors is refined and much friendlier.

    10. The print center is much improved.

    This is the bad stuff...

    1. The fax feature did not integrate well with the address book. BUT...you can have one machine as the dedicated fax machine and all other computers in the office can fax through it.

    2. Some photoshop filter controls did not draw correctly on the screen or didn't show up at all.

    3. There seemed to be some cut and paste clipboard errors. It seemed to show up in Safari and the Address Book.

    4. Quicken 2003 seems to have strange behavior when used in 10.3. But it is usable.

    Features that will hopefully show up in the actual release:

    1. Piles. I know they seem trivial. But I would like it.

    2. Themes. I really like the idea of customizing my OS and maybe tone down Aqua a bit.

    3. Multiple docks. One for office apps. One for games. One for graphical/web apps. And in the darkness bind them... ;-P Just being silly.

    I know this is a preview release...but it is very stable and usable. I cannot wait until the actual release. The fax sharing and abilities are worth the price of the upgrade. The rest is just gravy. My $.02.

  22. Open/save dialog boxes vs Finder? by Arslan+ibn+Da'ud · · Score: 5, Interesting
    The new Finder layout is also present in open/save dialog boxes, providing a consistent interface throughout the system.

    I *really* want to see a screenshot of this! (would y'all please stop /.ing the article? :) One pet peeve I've had with Macs is the disparity between the Finder and the open/save dialogs you get from regular software. Course this problem exists on Windows and Linux too, but the Mac finder is much nicer, and so the disparity is more pungent on a Mac.

    I've just had too many stints where a newbie saves a file (using a save dialog) and then can't find it. Because the finder looks different. Heck, I've used these things for 20 years and I sometimes lose files myself (must be getting senile).

    I REALLY want better integration with open/save dialogs so my mother can find any file she happens to save!

    --

    Practice Kind Randomness and Beautiful Acts of Nonsense.

    1. Re:Open/save dialog boxes vs Finder? by JonathanBoyd · · Score: 3, Informative

      Try http://www.apple.com/macosx/panther/finder.html - there are plenty of nice screenshots on Apple's website.

  23. Piles? by rleyton · · Score: 3, Interesting

    What happened to the "piles" document management system that was mentioned previously?

    Anybody know? I was looking forward to hearing more about this, but fear it's fallen by the wayside...

    --
    ooooooh! What does this button do? - DeeDee, Dexters Lab.
    1. Re:Piles? by phillymjs · · Score: 3, Informative

      Look here.

      It seems that someone missed this, and that "piles" is actually the "Expose" feature in Panther. I got to play with this last night, and it is pretty cool even though it ran like shit (and was expected to) on my spare G4/350 with a feeble video card.

      ~Philly

  24. Saddening by wackoman2112 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It saddens me to see such so much anti-Apple sentiment in this discussion. I am mainly a PC user, and I probably will always be a PC user, for reasons I won't bring up here, but I've used Apples before and they aren't bad computers. For example, the video and multimedia capabilities on MacOS can be matched nowhere else. And my short encounters with MacOS X have been very enjoyable.

    So take this anti-appleism elsewhere. You're ruining the experience for others.

    --
    /usr/bin/complain > /dev/null
  25. First thoughts on Panther by mog · · Score: 4, Informative

    I am posting this from a late 2001 iBook running Panther. It's the last iBook with the crappy 8mb Rage video (so no Quartz Extreme). I like Panther. I like it a lot. Some nuggets:

    * Expose rocks. It's awesome. I couldn't imagine working without it again.
    * Mail.app has been made a little bit prettier, and a little bit more functional.
    * Terminal.app has become usable as my primary terminal. You can now configure it to send Page-Down and Page-Up to the session instead of to Terminal.app's scrollbars.
    * I don't like the milky look. I want the pinstripes back.
    * The new finder is 2048X better. It's great.
    * I really wish they would either go with all brushed metal or all not - at least for the instances that go against the user interface guidelines. Either way, give me back the pinstripes.
    * The activity monitor is cool. You can change the colors on those graphs we saw - why they default it with those colors that look like ass, I don't know.
    * iTunes rocks. I don't know that much has changed, but that just had to be thrown out there.
    * Safari 1.0 (also available for Jaguar, I know) is the best browser I've ever used. They've made some great speed improvements.
    * The OS in general just feels a little bit snappier. With my aging iBook, any speed improvements get huge ++'s from me.

  26. Re:interesting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    The only flaw with your idea is that each copy of OS X will only get to use half a mouse button.

  27. Brushed metal and laptops by mccalli · · Score: 5, Interesting
    I'm a fairly recent Powerbook owner (~1 month), and one thing I've noticed since using Safari is that brushed metal can be quite unreadable on a laptop screen.

    Specifically, unless your screen is fairly far forward, you can't read the metal tab title names in Safari. Those titles are just the system font on top of the metal look, so this hassle is not limited to Safari.

    Given that, I think this brushed metal is an odd direction to be moving in for a company proclaiming this their year of the laptop.

    Cheers,
    Ian

    1. Re:Brushed metal and laptops by ChuyMatt · · Score: 4, Informative

      To get rid of that, i would recommend that you head over to http://www.haxies.com and get the APE program you see there and the deMetalizer offered there. They also have several other programs that are VERY nice for interface changes (making the dock clear for one). It is a great help, if you hate the metal thing so much. It can get rid of all metal on the desktop but iTunes and DVD player (there may be more, but i don't use them).

  28. Reads NTFS formatted drives by Alcimedes · · Score: 4, Informative

    To me this was the best part of the Panther update, after Expose.

    I have a lot of drives that have been formatted as NTFS. If a computer pukes and dies, it's great to be able to back up the data to my laptop (mac) rather than having to take the drive to a PC to pull the data off.

    As of yet the drives are read only, although it does have a non-functional (as of yet) authentication option so who knows.

  29. Re:Panther doesn't run on G5's by MrMickS · · Score: 3, Insightful
    The version of OSX that will ship with the G5's is 10.2.7, which has backwards hacks of 10.3 stuff like expose ... which is an incredible trick btw.

    This gets my vote for funny. Apple won't ship any new features with 10.2.7, least of all Expose, but will save them for Panther when they can charge for it.

    --
    You may think me a tired, old, cynic. I'd have to disagree about the tired bit.
  30. Xcode info and discussion.. by henele · · Score: 3, Informative

    ..Can be found in a forum thread here (linked from a MacRumors article)

  31. Not Violating the HIG by skti · · Score: 4, Informative
    Apple has, uh, adjusted the HIG for Panther. Metal can now be used for apps that:
    1. Are part of the digital hub
    2. Emulate a real world device
    3. Use the "playlist paradigm"
    Therefore, Panther is #3, as it has the new sidebar.
    --
    "When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love has always won..." ~ Mohandas K. Gandhi
  32. The New Un-Aqua by ihatewinXP · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It seems to me that the 'lickable' version of the Aqua UI was meant as a marketing promo for the new OS. I say that because with every new version (starting with Public Beta --> 10.0) the obtrusive and overly eye candy elements are being steadily removed. Looking at the new finder window theme _almost_ reminds me of Platinum OS9 - clean and simple (aside from the overuse of brushed metal). Not to say that OSX isnt the most beautiful interface ive ever seen or that 10.3 wont continue on that scale, but it does seem that after the initial fanfare the Aqua UI is evolving into what it should have been from 10.0..... Easy on the eyes, unobtrusive, easy to use and absolutely gorgeous to look at.

    --
    ---- The real Slashdot is still here. You just have to browse at -1 to read the comments.
  33. Re:Because, As We All Know... by jeffehobbs · · Score: 3, Informative


    Sure, QuickTime 4's UI was kind of bad, but have youy checked out Windows Media Player 9 lately? Talk about bad interface -- they didn't even include the ability to fast forward or rewind!

    ~jeff

  34. -1: Copyright Infringement by esme · · Score: 4, Insightful
    No seriously, mod the parent down. Reprinting an entire article from a site that makes all it's income from ads is not Informative: it's just regular copyright infringement. There isn't even an annoying registration requirement like the NY Times.

    This guy is even karma-whoring by not posting anonymously.

    -Esme

  35. Re:Serious Bluetooth Issues by Alcimedes · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Panther has serious bluetooth issues out of the box

    out of the box? there is no box to be out of. you're running a beta OS at best. they have misspelled words, non functional apps etc. of course there's stuff that doesn't work.

    on the off chance that you're one of the few developers who are SUPPOSED to have this, i would expect you to shrug this off as typical in a beta build. otherwise this sucker comes with zero promises or warrenties.

  36. My Panther Notes by themexican · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Overall the enhancements make Panther a must have upgrade. I'm especially keen on the Finder's live sorting and the overall speed (even when dealing with huge folders).

    Exposé is so good that after only a day or two of using panther, I now find myself reaching for it when I am back on jaguar (or on windows/linux machines).

    As always I have a few notes.

    The Finder

    1. The metallic interface should be optional.

    2. Column view still lacks sorting by anything other than 'name' in column view. I would suggest adding sorting options via a contextual menu.

    3. Fonts, HTML, EPS and any file handled by quicktime should be previewable right in the finder.

    4. Contextual menus need to be smarter. For example if I click on a font or a saver file I should be able to send it to it's proper folder.

    5. Lack of customizability is still a major complaint. There is still no way to change the font, to set the style of the desktop font, or to control grid spacing. Also we are limited to 10 point minimum font size.

    6. Finder windows still take up too much screen real estate. If apple used small scrollbars it would save a significant # of pixels per window.

    7. The finder still does not respect drag and drop locations when something is dropped on the desktop. This is a major sin in my book.

    8. Minimization of fields in list view is still one of my pet peeves.

    Why minimize 'Date Modified' to 'Dat..fied" when it could be "Date"
    Why minimize 'Size' to "..." instead of 'Size' or 'kb'
    Why does 48KB go from "4..b" to "..b" to "..." instead of "48k", "48", "48"... and so on. The kind field is especially dumb.

    Also why doesn't the text get more condensed as it did in OS 9 when the field gets narrow.

    9. Labels for items that one does not have permission to label should be handled more gracefully. Right now if you try to label something out of your permission range the labels are simply not selectable. This will be confusing to many users who don't understand permissions.

    10. The way labels are indicated in column view is extremely confusing. Especailly if your highlight color is similar to a label, labeled items appear to have been selected.

    11. The admin should be able to control what kind of finder window a user sees and they should be able to control which drives/folders are available within the finder window.

    12. A new (better) folder design would be appreciated.

    13. There should be an option to turn disk images into folders (this is what users normally want to do with downloaded images).

    The Dock

    The current dock is great for computer newbies and casual users, but it quickly breaks down when power users are in production on a big project.

    1. Exposé is fantastic, but it still does not solve the problem of minimized windows (it does not show windows minimized to the dock although it probably should). While minimized windows will be used less often when users get the hang of Exposé, there is still a need for some sort of windowshading that allows for speedy one or two click window swapping. I personally miss having windowshade from OS 9 and had a haxie installed to add this behavior. Even better is minimize-in-place hack from unsanity which recently became available. I have found shading invaluable in production. The standard OS X minimize/maximize simply takes too long to swap between windows and windows get lost in the dock. Also exposé, does not solve the problem of window clutter (many of our designers are clean desktop sort of people), while some sort of shading allows for clean desktops and efficient production. 3rd party hacks are great, but having it built in would be better.

    2. Grouping would really help the power user. I currently have 80 items in the dock and can never find anything. I use all my apps frequently so I want easy access to them. If instead of having them all minimized, I had springlloaded tabs in the manner of O

  37. fix your Safari by switcha · · Score: 4, Informative
    Get thee to lordofthecows and get Safari Enhancer. You can remove underlines, activate debugging menu, set minimum font sizes, give Safari a (very pretty) Aqua interface, and other maintenance and bookmark tweaks.

    A very useful "no need for getting under the hood" app and worth the donation just for the Aqua.

    --
    You know what? ... A little club soda *did* get that out!
  38. Re:interesting by TheNetAvenger · · Score: 3, Informative

    yet. I haven't seen anyone mention this, but I realized the other day that since Jaguar is fully 32-bit, you should be able to take 64-bit hardware and run two full instances of Jaguar on it in parallel.

    Based on your post, I am assuming you are new to the techie side of things, so I hope I don't offend.

    However, it doesn't work like this, a 64bit CPU is not two 32bit CPUS. Besides, running multiple copies of Jaguar would gain you what exactly?

    The architecture of OSX allows for multiple process and applications already, running OSX twice would be silly and redundant.

  39. Warning with Macintosh Manager/networking/RAID by BAM0027 · · Score: 3, Informative

    I don't have the bandwidth to flushout this problem, but, after running Panther (and LOVING IT!), I lost a two drive RAID partition.

    I'm posting this for posterity, not to be critical. Hopefully this will be modded "informative" if anything.

    Running a PowerMac G4 450MHz/1GB/2x78GB+1x28GB. The (2) 78GB drives were RAIDed to a single partition with 10.2.6 running smoothly even with heavy Classic operation. Some admin duties include Macintosh Manager and Workgroup Manager.

    Installed Panther on the 28GB drive and booted onto that OS. Things were running very smoothly and fast(!). Logged into Workgroup Manager and exited. Logged into Macintosh Manager and this is when trouble started.

    My theory is that, because Macintosh Manager auto-mounts the shared volume of the server you are connecting to, this set up a peculiar scenario that Panther was unfamilar with. The next action that I performed was to access a different shared volume (which had been previously mounted and operating fine). That is when I got the wheel of death.

    Thinking it was Just Another Wheel, I continued working (Excel, Classic apps, and more) with little trouble. After waiting long enough, I began Force Quitting apps (including the Finder) until all that remained was the Wheel.

    Rebooting didn't help, nor did Shutting Down, zapping PRAM, or Disk Utility (which consistently responded with Unknown Error (-9998).

    Various efforts were fruitless. Ended up reinstalling 10.2.2, upgrading to 10.2.6. Things are back to normal less data loss.

    My bad. I should be more careful.

  40. Steve's Own Words... by irving47 · · Score: 4, Funny

    "We call it aqua because it looks so good, you want to lick it." -Steve Jobs. MacWorld San Francisco Keynote. OS X's first big demo.

    So what now? We lick the metal-brushed windows? They'd better be nice and smooth or I'll get metal splinters in my tongue. Wait... What if they're not warm enough? I don't want to get those things frozen stuck on my tongue!
    Give me my aqua, por favor.

    --
    I had a sucky sig.
  41. MAC Target Audience by wo1verin3 · · Score: 5, Funny

    A quick glace of Apple's Panther Preview Page reveals to me the level of techical ability that Apple sees in its target market.

    -------
    Panther will include a final X11 window server for Unix-based apps, improved NFS/UFS, FreeBSD 5 innovations as well as support for popular Linux APIs, IPv6 and other important acronyms.
    -------

    I wish they'd lay off the acronym support until they get those vowels working properly!

    1. Re:MAC Target Audience by shiva600 · · Score: 3, Funny

      It's funny. Laugh.

      This was a joke Jobs made during his presentation.
      A pretty well recieved one at that.

  42. New interface + speed by xyrw · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I've seen several comments about how the new interface isn't as pretty as Aqua, and also how Panther feels snappier than Jaguar.

    I'd like to suggest a reason for this: the new interface seems to lack some of the transparency that was present in Jaguar. This could make it much faster, since transparency, even as handled by Quartz Extreme, still takes a bit more time than no transparency-- especially with fade-in effects.

    Try it on Jaguar: Use Unsanity's Fruit Menu to turn off transparency in the menus and see that they drop down instantaneously rather than fading in.

    Of course, I could be horribly mistaken...

  43. If you read the parent, read this, too by Mikey-San · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I agree with a good deal of what you've said, but I have several major complaints (this IS Slashdot, after all):

    2. Column view still lacks sorting by anything other than 'name' in column view. I would suggest adding sorting options via a contextual menu.

    No. You should never have settings or options available only via contextual menus, which a TON of users never even see. If they're in a contextual menu, find a place elsewhere for them, as well.

    3. Fonts, HTML, EPS and any file handled by quicktime should be previewable right in the finder.

    I don't agree with this, either. Perhaps QuickTime, but why everything else? Why not let the Finder do what everyone has bitched about the Finder being bad at since the beginning of OS X, and be a good navigation tool? (I like Jag's Finder, but nothing is ever perfect.) Concentrate on making the Finder let you find shit first and foremost. It doesn't need to be a Swiss Army Knife, it just needs to pass font files to the FontBookThingy app. Bing, done.

    4. Contextual menus need to be smarter. For example if I click on a font or a saver file I should be able to send it to it's proper folder.

    Same thing as the first point. Contextual menus should only provide a convenient grouping of commonly used commands that pertain to the object you've clicked on to generate the contextual menu you're looking at.

    This may also confuse more people, since you have your font folder and the system's font folder. How do you distinguish between the difference(s) for the average (non-geek) user?

    6. Finder windows still take up too much screen real estate. If apple used small scrollbars it would save a significant # of pixels per window.

    The scroll bars and window title bars are the same size in OS X and OS 9. For example, the window title bars are 22 pixels tall in both 9 and X.

    11. The admin should be able to control what kind of finder window a user sees and they should be able to control which drives/folders are available within the finder window.

    Hmm . . . I agree with the second half of that, as long as you're not restricting items in someone's home folder (duh), but that first part is an interesting point. Should a user be forced to see certain styles of windows for different folders? I dunno.

    Perhaps only if the admin couldn't screw with the window of a folder that belonged to them. I think that's how Jaguar does it, but I'm really not sure.

    12. A new (better) folder design would be appreciated.

    What's wrong with the current folder icon? Get a system icon replacement thingie from ResExcellence or wherever.

    13. There should be an option to turn disk images into folders (this is what users normally want to do with downloaded images).

    Apple does something similar with "Internet-enabled disk images". I think they're shitty, though, since I can't look at a .dmg file and tell that it's going to delete itself once I double-click it. Some of us like to back up the things we download, and self-trashing .dmgs totally screw that up.

    1. Exposé is fantastic, but it still does not solve the problem of minimized windows (it does not show windows minimized to the dock although it probably should). While minimized windows will be used less often when users get the hang of Exposé, there is still a need for some sort of windowshading that allows for speedy one or two click window swapping. I personally miss having windowshade from OS 9 and had a haxie installed to add this behavior. Even better is minimize-in-place hack from unsanity which recently became available. I have found shading invaluable in production. The standard OS X minimize/maximize simply takes too long to swap between windows and windows get lost in the dock. Also exposé, does not solve the problem of window clutter (many of our designers are clean desktop sort of people), while some s

    --
    Mikey-San
    Karma: +Eleventy billion (mostly affected by watching Celebrity Jeopardy)
  44. Re:Because, As We All Know... by sebi · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I don't need a play button that's NEARLY as big as QT Player's is. Couple that with the size of the other buttons, and you no longer have to wonder why the player window has to remain so friggin' large when you play a small movie.

    Now we're getting somewhere. You find the size of the buttons offensive. That doesn't make them bad UI. The most noticeable button is also the most frequently used one. You know--the one mapped to the space-bar. I can't really argue with the fact, that there is a minimum size the player window will have. That means you can't realistically display more than 6 windows at the same time on a 1024x768 screen. I have no idea how many users feel that this is a problem. If we stay as unscientific as humanly possible and take you and me as sample group, then I would guess that it could be about 50%. If the problem is about having the movie playing in the background then I don't see how player size keeps anyone from doing that.

    Intiutive? Clicking the timecode in the window to get to balance, treble, and bass controls is /not/ intuitive at all. If it were consistent, at least, it would reverse itself to time remaining rather than time elapsed.

    You're right. Clicking on the icon (and even though it is animated, it still is an icon) displaying the sound levels of the movie you are watching should not display the controls for modifying sound properties. What where they thinking?

  45. Relax; it's only DRM by yerricde · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Talk about bad interface -- [WMP9] didn't even include the ability to fast forward or rewind!

    Relax; it's only digital restrictions management.

    Rewind, and you view something several times that you paid to view only once, transforming a "public performance" of a copyrighted audiovisual work into a "public display". The streaming video provider may not have been licensed to offer public displays.

    Fast-forward, and you skip the commercials that you are obligated to have displayed by the TOS you signed with the streaming video provider.

    --
    Will I retire or break 10K?
  46. OS X versions reflect hardware by Sudderth · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The original "lickable" OS X interface -- right down to the thin horizontal gray lines on menu bars and window borders -- almost certainly was designed to resemble the original iMac and Blue-and-White G3. The design aesthetics reinforced each other, and even extended to Microsoft's Internet Explorer, which gives you the choice of browser chrome to match your hardware (including the venerable Bondi Blue).

    Apple went out of its chromatic phase in a blaze of glory with the regrettable "Blue Dalmatian" and "Flower Power" iMacs. Ever since then they've moved in a more elegant direction, with no more dramatic change than the shift from colorful, purse-like iBooks to today's snowy variant. OS X has looked dated in comparison -- it did its job too well. It's no coincidence that as brushed metal themes are emerging more and more often, especially in the new Finder, that the new G5's following suit.

  47. What about the little details? by nystagman · · Score: 3, Interesting
    Is anyone else bothered by the loss of such basic interface clues such as grayed-out icons for open folders, or the highlighting that we used to see when clicking on the proxy icon (the mini in the title of a window) when preparing to drag it?

    They don't sound like such a big deal, perhaps, but they truly convey a great deal of valuable information when implemented.

    Also poorly done is the abysmal internal truncation ('...') of text in narrow fields when in list view. (Also applies to long file names in icon view.) I really miss the condensed type that 9 used in these cases.

    "Get Info" functionality is limited, as it doesn't tell you how many items are in a folder, and I find it pretty useless that getting info on multiple items can not open multiple windows, to allow for easy comparisons.

    And WHY do removable volumes NOT remember open windows when remounted? If I log out (or even restart!) with the drive connected, the windows are remembered. So why not when they are manually un/remounted? This is really inconvenient, since I routinely modify the contents of many directories during a normal working day, and would like those windows to remain open when I transfer my Firewire drive between computers.

    I also hope the zoom-to-fit function is less broken than it currently is. Ditto for windows correctly remembering their settings. I am tired of that damned toolbar reappearing again and again in windows where I had turned it off.

    And today I narrowly averted disaster, almost overwriting the wrong file, because its modification time will not update until I click on it. Ditto for adding files to a folder with a process other than the Finder. The window must be manually brought to the foreground (or actively selected if it is already there) before the files show up. Once again, this is a disaster waiting to happen.

    So, rant aside, are ANY of these things addressed in Panther? I am resigned to not being able to turn off all the cycle-stealing eye candy (including the excessive use of translucency which is anathema to visual clarity), but since my next computer will be a G5, I suppose I'll just have to live with it... But I'd be greatly appreciative if more attention was paid to fixing the broken stuff than adding more new features to debug.

    --
    Theory and practice are the same in theory, but different in practice.
  48. Re:interesting by Eric_Cartman_South_P · · Score: 3, Funny
    haven't seen anyone mention this, but I realized the other day that since Jaguar is fully 32-bit, you should be able to take 64-bit hardware and run two full instances of Jaguar on it in parallel.

    And I would like to know: Is that FULL SPEED 32bit or HIGH SPEED 32 bit?

  49. bring back the purse by commodoresloat · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I totally agree about the design aesthetic matching on the hardware and software. I do wish they would bring back the purse design laptop though, or make something new like it. The clamshell enclosure was great -- spacious; my fingers always feel cramped on notebook keyboards, but not that one. More importantly, it was rugged as hell. I've seen them dropped with no harm done; try that with a tibook. The new 12" Tibook is better in terms of being rugged but doesn't have that space. And I know everyone laughed at the purse thing but that handle was damn convenient for carrying your machine across the room! I would love to see a new clamshell enclosure from apple with a G4 or G5 in it. It doesn't have to be fruity looking; surely their designers can create an elegant but toned down design that retains the functionality of the clamshell....