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China Accelerates Mars Program
securitas writes "You read it correctly - Mars. China has announced it intends to accelerate its Mars program, using experience and expertise from its fledgling lunar program. Following China's proposed Moon missions, the first phase would send a Mars orbiter to examine and survey the Red Planet; the second phase will involve wheeled robotic probes like China's Mars Explorer roving vehicle prototype, used to collect and analyze rock samples; and the third phase will involve returning spacecraft from the planet and establishing a permanent automated base on Mars. This puts the China-India space race and the China-USA space race in a very different light and clearly indicates that China plans to play with the big boys of Mars exploration."
Before NASA's budget sees a major increase?
The People's Daily is a state-run paper that is usually full of articles about how much students and peasants love the government and how Falun Gong is a dangerous cult. Interesting if they are accelerating the program, but the source is pretty sketchy.
laugh hard, it's a long way to the bank
..whay can't they all work together?
Rocket science is easy. Neurosurgery, now *that's* difficult.
I think this is the best thing for the future of space exploration. Competition will lead to innovation, and hopefully to added funding. I think when the American population sees China making great progress towards exploring Mars, there will be more of a demand for American exploration.
but going by China's record on safety, I expect there's going to be some pretty fireworks.
First the moon, and now mars..
Could China possibly be trying to hype up its space program to scare other countries? I mean, it just seems kind of odd that all of the sudden, all of these stories about China and space are surfacing..
I'd like to see a mission before I believe any of it.. seems like China is just preparing for a cold war
But who knows
Excuse me, I don't mean to impose, but I am the ocean
This is the best news we've heard for NASA in a couple of decades. There's nothing like a little compeition with one of the 'evil empires' of the world to get our Congressmen in a spending mood.
We went to the Moon so that the USSR couldn't get there first, ne?
I'm not so sure this is just about getting to Mars and the Moon. I think China is actually attempting to do what we did to the soviet union and trying to get us to escalate in spending in order to quicken an economic collapse. I don't think we're ready for another "cold war" just yet.
_ _ _ Go for the eyes Boo! GO FOR THE EYES!
This puts the China-India space race and the China-USA space race in a very different light and clearly indicates that China plans to play with the big boys of Mars exploration.
It's not a race in any meaningful sense right now - China has only said it intends to do something that the US has already done, after all. It will become considerably more interesting if a non-NASA space agency - the Chinese, the Indians, the Europeans - announces that it fully intends to land and recover a manned Mars mission before NASA can. My money's on the Chinese - they're the ones with the most to prove, Europe is too apathetic and India cannot devote the resources to it that China's command economy can. As to whether they beat NASA... well that really boils down to the man in the White House. The US/Soviet Empire space race was all about trying to convince the nonaligned nations which political system was the best... it wasn't about scientists competing purely for prestige, it was a battle of national Will. If the US decides that it is going to be impressive enough to take the lead in getting to Mars, then the Chinese would face some stiff competition. Maybe if Russia had more money it could partner with ESA, make it a 3-way race, maybe Japan could join that consortium.
Yep, chances are they are just saying this to wind up the US. I'll bet this sort of thing is actually quite a long way down on their list of priorities. Even if they mean it, the cash could easily dry up before it gets that far. The world isn't exactly in a boom economy right now.
If the wheel hasn't been used in decades, maybe it could use a little reinventing.
I want you to assume that all spelling and grammar errors are intentional. Thank You.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
I hope China will work with NASA and ESO in a co-operative level instead of with a competitive nature. It will be a shameful waste of Earth's, humans' and economic resources to duplicate what NASA has done (i.e. those that have true scientific value) rather than a I-can-do-it-too. Also, with China's wages problems (mainly those in the agricultural industry) yet seeing results, why is it spending such insane sums of money in an area that will not bring tangible benefits to its people ans standard of living?
www.rexguo.com - Technologist + Designer
China has scrapped its mars program to sooner attain its goal of putting a human on the solar surface. Sources quoted as saying "take that you capatalist pigs."
China is light years away from launching Mars exploration programmes
I didn't know China was in a different solar system(!).
Would that be Alpha Centauri or Ursa Minor Beta..?
Ethics is what you say you do. Morals is what you actually do.
Sorry .. groan. I'm sure some news reporter already got to that one.
China: Hey USA, we're going to send stuff to moon! Neeneer
USA: Uhh, we've already done that
China: Hey, USA, we're going to send stuff to mars!! neeneer
USA: Right-o, Mr. Red
China seems to be all talk and no substance. Personally, it seems as if they are just trying to tell the rest of the world "Look, we can do it too!" but never actually doing it.
And I don't like how so many people consider a 'space-race' a good thing... the USSR/USA 'space-race' did speed up technological developement in that department, sure.. but the goal was for the totally wrong reason, and it happened wayyy too fast.
We're going to the moon! ( 10 years later ) We're on the moon, hurray! ( 5 years later ) Uhh, we're on the moon.. I want to go home
It seems like soon as we beat the USSR and reached our goal, being that there was nothing worthwhile for the government to invest in (winning a space race = instant world respect and nationality rises considerably, i guess) so it just went stagnant.
The government should have a program that helps and directs corporations getting into space directly, and showing them how a profit could be made... that's where the real ticket is
10. PROFIT!
Excuse me, I don't mean to impose, but I am the ocean
I only worry they'll go to Europa, against the old mandate, and start drilling. Once the shambling plant-thing comes up and kills them, then the US will be laughing... Yeah.
Thank you Arthur.
I assert that my comment is only my opinion, not that of any employer, past, present or future.
Judging from it's history, China doesn't have to spend as much money of safety devices and testing.
Chinese Official: You! Citizen #32185 have been lucky enough to be chosen to fly to Mars!
Citizen: Wh.. what?
CO: Put him in the cannon!
C: What's Mars?
CO: FIRE!
BOOM
Technician: Looks like this one didn't make it to orbit either.
CO: More gun powder! You! Citizen #32186 have been lucky...
Outdoor digital photography, mostly in New Engl
China's "expanding" space program consists primarily of plans and conjecture. Calling this is "space race" is more than a little silly.
China is using 30-40 year old Soviet technology in their attempt to accomplish things other nations accomplished 30-40 years ago. I'm happy they are trying, but this isn't much of a race.
-- Slashdot: When Public Access TV Says "No"
This may be finally what makes the US government sit up and take notice. Hopefully they will increase NASA funding so that they can finally send a manned mission to Mars. I'm sure the offshoot technology and the inspiration for such a mission would be well worth the cost. Even so skimming a little off the military funding and putting it into something valid such as space exploration is far better than killing people.
Perhaps it's because the US is scaring them.
I ask you, what could the US possibly do to make the Chinese (and the rest of the world) even more interested in accelerating their space programs than attempting to pull crap like this ?
They're trying to find new homes for the 20 million people displaced by the new dam....
That was a great article, and I suggest you mod that post up, if anyone with mod points read this.
If the US did successfully take control of space in such a way, it could be really damaging to the human race in general... if we want to survive, we will (someday) have to get off this rock, and if the human race as a WHOLE doesn't work together on this goal, we are all doomed.
Excuse me, I don't mean to impose, but I am the ocean
As long as humans get into space, I could care less under what flag or what government it is for, just as long as we get out there... and then resist having a war over it.
SecondPageMedia - Wha
GDP Per Capita in China: purchasing power parity - $4,600 (2002 est.)
Source is CIA World Factbook
Do the math.
The truth of the matter is, they are soooooooooo far behind, how can you call it a race?
Very simple...
They dont have to engineer squat. 99.997% of all the engineering and testing is done for them and freely available.. or available for a price. I am sure the country formerly known as the USSR would gladly sell information on how to get your ass in space, to the moon, to mars, to uranus.. (Ok ok.. bad joke...) all they have to do is build. they have more computing power today than the United states had in 1989.. hell if they use linux and a correct implimentation they can have more computing power than the USA has right now.
The speed of advancement is very fast as the Chineese only have to traverse a very small part of the learning curve.
I think they can do it... but I do doubt that they will... China is known for 2 things.. Lots of population and propaganda... their government is really good at the propaganda part.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
FUCK the space program.
//I lived in China and am currently studying 'Chinese languages and cultures' at Leiden University.
China ought to use all that money and invest it in their economy, schools, health system, and anything else _but_ useless look-how-big-my-d1ck-is crap.
There are hundreds of millions of Chinese living a miserable life and finally their economy is steadily starting to improve. Finally they have a partyleader who actually tries to improve their living conditions, Hu. They should use this money for their country, not try to rival with the US.
I'd like to see a mission before I believe any of it.. seems like China is just preparing for a cold war
...etc). China still depends a lot on other countries, and the officials understand that.
Conspiracy theory put aside, I think this is a little bit exagerated.
The Chinese government (most high level officials who can make major governmental decisions, at least) are mostly practical. You can't really find anyone who is ultra-conservative and xenophobic right now, not those who are in the position to make decisions.
The major concerns right now to push the economic development as fast as we can (I say we, as I'm Chinese and living in Shanghai), unless there's concern about uncontrollable inflation.
Most officials now just try to play nice, especially with the US (remember the plan crash incident? Bush was amazingly arrogant at the time, but China kinda backed down not to get the sino-us relation into bad water). A lot of people think the government is spineless. But I think the government made a lot of decisions that are right, given the current situations here (economic, political, scientific,
And this is a good thing.
Sure, China tries to develop other areas of expertise too, so what? What does that have to do with Cold War? Why do we have to think that all scientific research must have anything to do with military conspiracy, especially when it is done in China, India, or Russia?
Do you think only people in the US love peace? We all do too. Just give us a chance and I believe we can contribute a lot to the progress of humanity too, just we have done in the past.
Yep. Not just "negation", but also other countries have seen the advantage that GPS guided weapons gives to the US, and are no doubt paying keen attention to the US's recently announced global reach weapons plans:
US to Develop High-speed Drone with Global Reach
What with the European Space Agency now in collaboration with the Russian's and China's newfound interest, it looks like the next space (weapons) race may be on.
Well, after China invaded Tibet Mao told some guys "hey, climb mount everest" (in chinese obviously). And in two years time they had done it, even though there was no tradition of mountain climbing before.
Why am I not suprised by this article?
Obviously the US military needs this to stop terrorists - I mean I can see Al Queda buildng some evil doomsday device on the moon. Who do they think Bin Laden is? Dr Evil?
Let us compare this to one of China's other big projects...The Three Gorges Dam.
"The president imposed a moratorium on reporting four aspects of the project: alluvial sediment buildup, the more than 100 cracks that have already appeared in the dam, pollution/environmental damage and the return of those who were displaced from the area by the project. The first three issues are not allowed because with the passage of time, China's science and technology will improve, so they can be solved. The last taboo is forbidden because of the threat that it poses to social unity and stability."
Ah yes, the damn is starting to have problems. Solution? The media is not allowed to mention these problems, and is 'encouraged' to only mention the good stuff.
This attitude worked somewhat for the Soviets, I'm not sure if it will work for China.
Democrats or Republicans. They are both taking us to the same place and they are not afraid of us anymore.
Here I was thinking we were cool with our particle accelerators. Now China comes along with their Mars accelerator program. Damnit.
"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lampposts...for support rather than illumination." - Andrew Lang
I can draw up elaborate plans to go to Saturn or Uranus, do I have the money?
Well, I don't know about Saturn...
Forget thrust, drag, lift and weight. Airplanes fly because of money.
The russians had a good excuse, the first car was made by a guy called Benz, a German, the first jet powered military planes were made my the Luftwaffa in WWII, and the first effective submarines were the U boats used by Germans Navy in WWI, and we all know that Russians and Germans didn't get along, so it was an act of patriotism to screw up in everything German.
But seriously, the MIG 29s had the USAF pissing in their pants until they developed the F22, the Typhoon class submarines, although having one unfortunate accedent were generally good ships that could match any Ammerican offering, and anyway, at least they don't come up under civilian boats to show off. The Lada may suck, but they can be made very cheap, and the potato screwup was not as bad as the one the Irish had a while back.
Seriously, the Russians were very good at what they did, they just had a few mistakes experimenting to try and make the world better, something the American government has never had the balls to do.
When Argumentum ad Hominem falls short, try Argumentum ad Matrem
Ah...but keep this in mind. In WWII Germany was flying around in jets and the US was behind them there. Yet for the most part, the US has held the premier position in modern jet technology (of course the EuroFighter just rocks).
The USSR was the first with their satelite in space. Again, you could have said "The US is so far behind", yet the US was the first to put someone on the moon. We could list a myriad of examples, from computing, steel-work, gun-powder use, and so forth...
"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lampposts...for support rather than illumination." - Andrew Lang
The phrase "too big for its boots" comes to mind.
The current administration seems to be of the opinion that the USA is supremely powerful. Now, only a fool would deny that the USA is in a powerful position at the moment, but it is not supremely powerful.
It is a dangerous state of affairs when the administration thinks that it no longer needs allies. They need to wake up to the fact that the USA is in the position it is in at the moment partly because its allies allowed it to get there, even helped it.
If the USA really does try to pull stunts like denying other countries access to space, then it might just find out what a difference friends can make. Believe me - Europe, China, India, Russia, Japan - they will react if the USA starts to act stupidly like this. We are already seeming some of the effect of this with collaboration between India and China, for instance.
I think the administration thinks that the rest of the world can't survive without it. They need to travel a bit more. They will that that, for instance, Europe isn't as different as the USA in terms of size and economy as they seem to think. They will also find that India and China aren't as backwards as they might imagine (for christsakes, many Slashdotters have lots jobs to people from these countries, and not just manual jobs but sophisticated white collar jobs).
The more the USA talks like this, the more its former allies are going to group together and start collaborating. The USA seems to like to impose sanctions and economic "punishments" on countries that don't collaborate with it at the moment. I wonder how the USA economy would take it if the national governments of places like Europe, Russia, Japan and China start selling their dollar reserves, or imposing import tarrifs on American goods. The USA may find that actually, it does need friends.
Well, the version of the Long March launch rocket that lifted the unmanned Shenzhou prototypes into low Earth orbit have more lifting capability than the Delta II rockets we've used to launch probes to Mars, so if China is talking about sending robotic probes to Mars they already have the rocket to do so.
Whether the Chinese have the technological skills to build a spacecraft that can last several years on a Mars mission is still an iffy proposition, though.
"This puts the China-India space race and the China-USA space race in a very different light..."
There is no China-USA space race. Middle America has made it very clear that they do not care about fluff like expensive space programs when the government can instead provide them miniscule tax breaks and 24/7 war coverage. The horrendous mismanagement of NASA funding has become an embarassment to long-time memebers of the Congress, who would rather just sweep the whole idea under the rug and avoid drawing attention to an aging shuttle fleet that they were promising to replace in the 1980s.
America is no longer in a space race with anything other than the financial mismanagement that threatens to eventually kill manned flight entirely.
Our GDP is $10e12, theirs is $6e12, i.e. they make 60%. But wait a minute, scientists and engineers dont make six figures in China, do they? Figuring rougly $100K for scientists and engineers of the required calibre in the US, China can afford the same number at $60K, or twice as many at $30K. Considering US graduate schools are full of Chinese students, their talent is or will soon be at least as good as ours.
The only major reason for the space program of the 60's that Amercians are rightly proud of was...in one word...Sputnik! One of the great causes of the malaise our manned space program is suffering from is a syndrome I think of as "political culpibility".
In other words, no Congressman/Congresswoman is going to push an untried ambitious technological experiment. Such an experiment could well cost the taxpayers a shit-ton of money. If the experiment fails, that money is seen as lost into the NASA sinkhole with absolutely no benefit derived (at least from the point of view of politics, not that of the scientific community). Add to that the potential for loss of human life on manned missions, and what you end up with is a politcal hot-potato that no elected official will want to touch. That's why promising technologies like the Solar Sail are only now becoming realities with the aid of the European Space Agency.
Of course every NASA technology, dicey as it is by nature, was untried at some point. It's my opinion that the political wherewithal (vis a vis space) only surfaces when there is an external (read:military) threat. That it's a powerful, and ideologically opposed nation like China should, ideally, be just the ticket to fuel the ambitions of our elected officials. It's really the classic Zero Sum Game as originally described by John Von Neuman and later applied to social theory by Robert Wright.
Quod scripsi, scripsi.
If you want more information about the research sql*kitten mentions, check out the Focus Fusion Society. Their goal is raise funding for additional R&D in this subject, but they also have a good description of how focus fusion is achieved.