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The New Yorker on Business Process Patents

caledon writes "The New Yorker has a clear, concise, nontechnical essay by its finance columnist James Surowiecki criticizing business process patents: Patent Bending. 'Although we have always had a vibrant patent system, we've managed to strike a balance between the need to encourage innovation and the need to foster competition. As Benjamin Day, Henry Ford, and Sam Walton might attest, American corporations have thrived on innovative ideas and new business methods, without owning them, for two centuries. In the past decade, the balance has been upset.' Makes the argument persuasively."

73 of 315 comments (clear)

  1. Re:an elegant solution by usotsuki · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I wouldn't abolish them altogether, but they should be restricted to physical devices that must be built from components. Not chemicals, not software, and most certainly not business methods!!

    -uso.

    --
    Dreams, dreams, don't doubt dreams, dreaming children's dreaming dreams. Sailor Moon SS
  2. Re:an elegant solution by mgs1000 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Let's not throw out the baby with the bathwater. The total lack of patents would put the indivual inventor out of business, because he/she would never be able to compete with large corporations.

  3. Nice to see in popular media by Chris_Jefferson · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Not really a lot I can say, but seeing as I seem to be first(ish) here, I'll say some stuff anyway :)

    It is nice to see this kind of coverage in the popular media. It no longer seems as ridiculas as it did to imagine a general shake-up of patents, which is good. The article also describes the problem well, with good examples (as opposed to some of the more usually used stupid examples).

    I don't think we should get rid of patents, I don't even think "software patents" are a bad thing (if anyone tries quoting the 'all software is produced by a turing machine, so is all obvious argument, I'll hit them!), but hopefully we can reach a sensible system!

    --
    Combination - fun iPhone puzzling
    1. Re:Nice to see in popular media by siskbc · · Score: 5, Insightful
      (if anyone tries quoting the 'all software is produced by a turing machine, so is all obvious argument, I'll hit them!),

      Best comeback to that inane crap is "Turing thought the brain was a Turing machine - therefore, all innovation of any kind is obvious and unpatentable." See how they like that.

      --

      -Looking for a job as a materials chemist or multivariat

  4. Business patents and time to railroad by PhysicsGenius · · Score: 2, Insightful
    When MP3's hit the scene, record companies started to moan about how their profits were being eroded and how Napster (etc) needed to be shut down. The entire userbase of Slashdot (including me) said that there was no legally guaranteed "right to profit" and that if they couldn't make it in the "New Economy", they should get a different business model. "That's how capitalism works" was the libertarian cry.

    Now technology has struck again--people are inventing new ways to make money. Instead of applauding their innovations and acknowledging their right of first use on ideas they made up, we are demanding that they share them with us. Instead of being free market, laisez-faire capitalists, we (by which I mean you, I don't subscribe to this) have turned into whiny littly communists. "It's too hard to make money when the other guy has a shiny new business model. Mommy, make him share!" Bah.

    1. Re:Business patents and time to railroad by s20451 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      there was no legally guaranteed "right to profit" and that if they couldn't make it in the "New Economy", they should get a different business model. "That's how capitalism works" was the libertarian cry.

      Heh ... I remember the new economy.

      There's no legally guaranteed right to share music or copy software, either -- quite the opposite. Don't forget that without strong intellectual property laws, the GPL would not exist, and it would be in nobody's interest to share code or ideas for fear that they would get stolen. Beware the law of unintended consequences.

      --
      Toronto-area transit rider? Rate your ride.
    2. Re:Business patents and time to railroad by nametaken · · Score: 2, Insightful


      For the most part, you raise a good point... but I think that the regular argument is more along the lines of poor administration of the patent system. I can't argue with people functioning within the framework of the system, I can only complain about the system itself. That's my right and responsibility.

    3. Re:Business patents and time to railroad by Creep73 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I can't disagree with you entirely however I can't agree all together. Some items need to be shared. If some things are not shared innovation will tend to stagnate. Many times the greatest innovation comes after some company shares some piece of information or some design. The problem is that now companies and individuals are trying to make money off anything and everything. If I add a sent to toilet paper I need to patent the idea. We are not talking about any new revolutionary products here. We are talking about ideas on how to run a business. Innovation comes from multiple people working to expand the work that has already taken place by others. If no one shares information, if everything puts a price on every idea that comes forth it drives the cost of that innovation and eventually the price of any product that is a result of that innovation. If every thought that came out of any head had a price we would be living in a world where no one could afford to live. As with most things balance is the key.

    4. Re:Business patents and time to railroad by DarkSkiesAhead · · Score: 4, Interesting
      Don't forget that without strong intellectual property laws, the GPL would not exist, and it would be in nobody's interest to share code or ideas for fear that they would get stolen. Beware the law of unintended consequences.
      I don't think people are calling the principle of strong IP laws into question. That's a different issue. The issue is the breadth these laws have been expanded to in recent years. It's one thing to say "my innovation should be protected for a reasonable time." It's another thing to say "my vague idea should be given absolute power in my field for the next 120 years."
    5. Re:Business patents and time to railroad by ralph_the_wonder_lla · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Instead of applauding their innovations and acknowledging their right of first use on ideas they made up, ...

      Had the US Patent Office granted Henry Ford a patent for the assembly line, the world would be a very different place indeed. But then again, under the way we are doing things now one of Henry's competitors would patent it and then sue him for using his own idea.

      The core of the problem is that we have a legal system that does not understand nor fully comprehend the impact of its decisions and has allowed anyone who can think up and idea (even after the fact), grab an attorney and go out and blackmail buisnesses into paying them off.

      The net effect of this is to chill the competitive business environment. When a business finds a new and successful method of doing business it forces their competition to a) copy them and try to do it better b) find a different way to beat the competition or c) fold up and go out of business.

      The way that patents are being awarded for business methods is more akin to the Microsoft Business Model. Dismiss the innovation, create a pile of FUD over the innovation and then buy up the innovator and close them down/assimilate them into the collective. Stifiling isn't it.

      --

      Kiss ass while you bitch so you can get rich but the boss gets richer off you. --Dead Kennedys
    6. Re:Business patents and time to railroad by LilMikey · · Score: 2

      Instead of applauding their innovations and acknowledging their right of first use on ideas they made up, we are demanding that they share them with us

      So in your world, 'one click shopping' and 'fixed price auctions' are inventions worthy of applause? The Slashdot crowd may be reactionary and leftist but they can usually identify a spade when they see it.

      I'm sure there are pleny of shiny new business models worth of a patent but online DVD rentals is just the next iteration in an evolving economy. What if someone had patented online banking, online ticket purchases, etc. These kinds of patents hault the evolution of our economy for the sake of profit. They're stifiling innovation, not encouraging it.

      In fact Netflix should be a shining example against business patents. They've been around for many years and some have tried, mostly-unsuccessfully, to mimic them. They've made themselves quite rich and the company how grown to what, 7 distribution centers. It's nearly a household name. And they did it without enforcing the bunk patent they recently pushed through. That's how capitalism works!

      --
      LilMikey.com... I'll stop doing it when you sto
    7. Re:Business patents and time to railroad by molarmass192 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You're obviously confused over the meaning of the word communism. If we were "whiny little communists" we wouldn't have money and neither would the other guy. In fact, the state would have everything and would distribute goods to people as they needed them. Reality is that there has never been a communist government, rather they were all Marxist governments with no intention of ever progressing into communism. The unattainable goal of a "communistic society" was just a carrot used to make totalitarian rule more palatable to those they were oppressing. Marx and Engles were social idiots who probably drank way too much absinthe while in Paris to even realize that their crappy papers were based on anything but reality. Back to the subject ...

      Under capitalism, the goal of the state is to promote open competition. You can reconcile this with anti-trust law since it's goal is to restore open competition. However, patent law prevents open competition. It creates state controlled monopolies whose sole purpose is to prevent free market competition. State granted monopolies are a facet of fascism, not capitalism. I don't see how you can call yourself a free market capitalist but still believe in patents.

      --

      Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around the laws-Plato
    8. Re:Business patents and time to railroad by an+enormous+void · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Instead of being free market, laisez-faire capitalists, we (by which I mean you, I don't subscribe to this) have turned into whiny littly communists.

      Laissez faire capitalists by definition "oppose government regulation of or interference in commerce beyond the minimum necessary for a free-enterprise system to operate according to its own economic laws". Patents are "a grant made by a government to an inventor, assuring the sole right to make, use, and sell the invention for a certain period of time". Therefore, patents are interferece in the free market system by the government to assure profit to someone, and by definition, violate the tenants of laissez faire capitalism. The people you are calling whiny littly (?) communists are, in fact, espousing the philosophy you are claiming to support.

      Definitions quoted from Webster's II New Riverside University Dictionary.

    9. Re:Business patents and time to railroad by rossifer · · Score: 2, Insightful

      As the previous poster said, the GPL cannot exist without strong IP laws. The default situation without IP laws is pretty close to the BSD license and not at all close to the GPL.

      Remember, the GPL puts obligations on others that require a law to back them up. An IP law.

      Regards,
      Ross

  5. Greed != Good anymore. by Trigun · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Previously, there were checks and balances placed in society to prevent the atrocities of the Industrial Revolution from happening again. And life was good.

    As more and more people forgot about the conditions of labor which were impressed upon the workforce, these checks and balances were overlooked and neglected, and big business took over. Like a kid in a candy store, these entities destroyed the system which fostered competition, and made it a tool to oppress the people. Big Business became Government, and further cemented the position as our overlords.

    The current patent system is just a tool used for this purpose.

    1. Re:Greed != Good anymore. by Surak · · Score: 2, Funny

      I, for one, welcome our corporate overlords!

      Hail the mighty Gates! Glory to Oppenheim! DISNEY IS MY GOD!!!

      Oh wait...wrong movie...

    2. Re:Greed != Good anymore. by e40 · · Score: 4, Interesting
      You have correctly identified republican philosophy: corporations can do no wrong, government should be a small fraction of the size it is today and profit is the almighty.

      OK, you right-wing nuts out there, jump on me. Go ahead. You can't refute the facts... like, Bush, et al would like to get rid of the EPA (and the republicans almost succeeded in gutting their budget a few years ago). Why? Too much government interference in corporate profits. Damn those toxic waste dumping rules!! They could make so much money if they didn't have to cart that crap off to Mexico...

      Regarding dramatically smaller government, read this. It's written by a life-long republican, lest you nuts raise the spector of the "liberal media".

    3. Re:Greed != Good anymore. by Bull999999 · · Score: 2

      And you are a moron if you think that the alternatives are any better. Democrats are for pro greedy trial lawyers. why do you think that Trial Lawyers association endorses Democrats? If you want proof, do a research on the battle between the doctors group and trial laywers group regarding the malpractice insurance issue.

      --
      1f u c4n r34d th1s u r34lly n33d t0 g37 l41d
    4. Re:Greed != Good anymore. by e40 · · Score: 3

      There are an infinite number of alternatives, in theory. In practice, we have to choose among many evils. You are a moron if you think democrats are more evil than republicans.

      For example, Clinton provided moderates for the federal court nominee process. They were given a hell ride in the Senate. Bush, of the other hand, has nominated extreme right wingers. I call that far more evil a legacy that what Clinton did, because these judges are appointed for life. Thankfully, the dems have been able to stop the most extreme nominees from entering confirmation hearings.

    5. Re:Greed != Good anymore. by Dirk+Pitt · · Score: 3, Insightful
      'Kind of a circular argument, isn't it? The Republican is bad because he nominated Republicans to the courts. This is bad because Republicans are bad because they nominate Republicans to the courts. My head spins. I'm sure you can come up with a better example of the evils of the GOP.

      Your assumption (which I disagree with) is that Federal judges should all be moderates. Personally, I would say that Clinton's wishy-washy, moderate stance on so many important issues (like Federal court nominations) made him far more evil a choice than the alternatives. He was way too afraid to take any stance that went off-center.

      You ought to take it easy with the name calling and hyper-aggressive criticism. People will more readily listen to you if you keep from discussing matters of polity with the ferocity of a sports fanatic.

  6. Software? by phorm · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I think to a certain degree software should be patentable. If you go out and develop new, innovative, and suddenly popular software - you should have a time when you don't have to worry about being deluged with copycats. That being said, a more intelligent idea might be to have time limits with variance per the item being copyrighted.

    Software (methodology) patents could be what, a few years, and business methods perhaps one. It allows the creator to enjoy the fruits of his/her labour for awhile, while still allowing competition to foster and innovation to flourish in later years.

    Oh yes, and you should not be allowed to patent something that already exists in a previous medium (online XYZ based on real XYZ).

    1. Re:Software? by eddy · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You have time automatically, software doesn't just suddenly "appear" -- it takes time to write, lot's of time, even if you're trying to copy the workings of someone else -- especially so if how the software works is very novel. If someone could just clone it in a year or two then its implementation wasn't very special after all.

      You're talking about implementation, right? Patenting "concepts" is just to scary for me to think about.

      Whatever happened to simply being the best and levering being the first one to be on the top?

      --
      Belief is the currency of delusion.
    2. Re:Software? by Joey+Vegetables · · Score: 2, Interesting

      You can't stop people from copying. Trying to is like trying to outlaw gravity. And enforcing "laws" against copying would require constant surveillance of every human activity, contrary to even the flimsiest notions of basic privacy rights.

      I don't think true reform of the IP system (including patents, copyright, trade secret law, etc.) can really move forward until this is recognized.

      Software, like music, art, etc., can be reduced to a bunch of 1s and 0s . . or (equivalently) a very large integer.

      If you don't want your work to be copied, you really have only two choices. Either don't disclose it without strict NDAs, contracts, etc. (i.e., make it a trade secret). Or do work that does not consist of a very large and easily copyable integer.

      The days of profit owing solely to artificial scarcity are over, and no amount of wishing or legislating to the contrary is going to change that.

      If you want to make a living, then produce products or services (not just large integers) that people are willing to pay for.

    3. Re:Software? by tassii · · Score: 2, Informative

      I think to a certain degree software should be patentable. If you go out and develop new, innovative, and suddenly popular software - you should have a time when you don't have to worry about being deluged with copycats. That being said, a more intelligent idea might be to have time limits with variance per the item being copyrighted.

      Basic mistake here.. a patent is not a copyright.. they are two separate things.

      Software should be copyrightable.. not patentable.

      --
      "I drank what?" - Socrates
    4. Re:Software? by PhilHibbs · · Score: 2, Interesting

      He's not talking about direct ripoff copies, but of someone hiring a hundred Indian graduates to churn out a workalike in three months. In some ways, there's very little difference between software and a physical device.

    5. Re:Software? by cait56 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      With modern hardware there is no difference. A "hardware" implementation performs a sequence of logical operations that have been arranged in an innovative way to produce a valuable result. A software implementation does the same thing.

      In either case, the essential innovation of having researched a method of sequencing and controlling the individual steps can be easily stolen and given a totally new representation. Copyright is clearly not suitable protection.

      The emphasis has to be on ensuring that it is the innovative cominbation that is being patented, not the valuable result, and that it is indeed innovative.

      Removing the need to prove true innovation makes the patent game a race to file a claim.

      And as any /. reader should know, the "first post" seldom contributes to the process.

  7. First Post by Lew+Pitcher · · Score: 3, Funny

    Patent pending, 2003, All rights reserved

    --

    "values of beta will give rise to dom!"

  8. Re:an elegant solution by aborchers · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Abolish patents. It's a wonder few bring up this possibility.


    Abolition of patents is a simple-minded, reactionary solution, and if you think it hasn't been brought up plenty of times, you apparently haven't been reading this board for long.

    Patents serve a valuable purpose to spur development through economic incentives while ensuring ultimate constributions to the public domain. That they've been abused and overextended is not a reason to throw them away. I agree we need massive changes in how patents are granted, but I've yet to hear a single compelling argument for their abolition that wasn't tinged with drool...

    --
    Trouble making decisions? Just flip for it.
  9. I support business process patents by Nick+of+NSTime · · Score: 3, Interesting
    I think it makes sense to patent business processes, to a certain extent. If I have a company that manufactures low profit margin widgets, and I have a competitor who manufactures low profit margin widgets, and I devise a business process that streamlines my manufacturing to eke out more profits, I won't want my competitor to have that business process.

    At the same time, I think there are pitfalls. Take Netflix for example: the idea of renting DVDs over the Internet does not seem unique to me. As a matter of fact, I thought of the very same thing in 1997 but couldn't get capital.

    The more I reply to these topics, the more I realize that there is no clear answer, so I begin to wonder why I reply at all.

    1. Re:I support business process patents by rhfrommn · · Score: 2, Insightful

      One big problem I see with patenting business products is how do you ever prove you came up with it? In a competitive industry all the businesses will constantly be looking for ways to streamline their procedures to lower expenses. So what gives you the right to patent something everybody in your industry is working on at the same time? Who gets the patent - the guy who first thought of it, the manager who first approved it, or the company who first implemented it? And if my company has written the procedures and plans to implement them next Monday, can you get a patent because you did it first on Friday?

      It is too messy. With a physical invention you can make the object, construct diagrams of it, and prove you are the first to invent it. In business processes it is way too "mushy" to define when a process is invented and when it is just a idea in somebody's head.

      --
      My motto is: Never give up - unless it's harder than you want it to be.
    2. Re:I support business process patents by Creep73 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      So what you are saying is that Ford is the only company that should be allowed to use the production line? I am sorry but these are things that need to be shared in order for capitalism to thrive. This promotes competition by bringing companies on equal footing. If everything had a price one company with the money would end up owning everything.

    3. Re:I support business process patents by TrekkieGod · · Score: 2, Insightful
      If I have a company that manufactures low profit margin widgets, and I have a competitor who manufactures low profit margin widgets, and I devise a business process that streamlines my manufacturing to eke out more profits, I won't want my competitor to have that business process.

      Of course you don't. That's the point though. Everybody wants to get patents, it protects them. I remember the good old days when companies had to worry about industrial espionage to protect their production methods which were better than the competiton. Those days, you kept your better widget production method secret, and you stay ahead of the competition until they figure out how to better their system on their own. What you want is an unfair business practice that gives you the advantage...that's what everyone wants for themselves.

      Of course, patents are still necessary. If you create an invention, and then a big company with lots of capital copies your idea, and sells the same thing for much cheaper than you possibly could, that's not competition, that's hanging you and using your own idea as the rope. The line must be drawn between patenting a product and an idea though, just like it used to be. There must also be a *short* limit on the time you're allowed to sell your invention without any competition, basically enough time to let you be established in the business, so that by the time the other companies can join in, you can hold your own. I'll leave it to people more intelligent than I to figure out what's a reasonable time, but I'll go ahead and say that this time should definitely be different depending on what it is you're patenting...it should be decided in an individual basis.

      --

      Warning: Opinions known to be heavily biased.

  10. Case Law by petronivs · · Score: 4, Interesting

    But in July, 1998, the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Federal Circuit did away with that principle.

    I wonder if this case (or a similar one) ever made its way to the Supreme Court. It might help matters, and it would be much more likely than waiting for Congress to do something about the situation. Any action in Congress limiting these kinds of patents would certainly be opposed by entrenched corporations (which might not control Congress yet, but do have substantial influence in it).

    --
    This is the real signature
    (Beats those shadows on the cave wall, don't it?)
  11. Now everyone wants a turn... by TWX · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "As Benjamin Day, Henry Ford, and Sam Walton might attest, American corporations have thrived on innovative ideas and new business methods, without owning them, for two centuries."

    Yes, and now every idiot who went through business school wants to get in a piece of the action, despite frequent majoring in "Business" is more like highschool++ rather than serious post-secondary education for many. I'd have a lot more respect for "businessmen" if several of the small businesses that I've worked for didn't ignore their employees when it came time to make technical decisions, and would consider long term effects. These people even have a financial stake in what they're doing, compared to those that control other peoples' money, and they still are screwups. I don't see why we should let any company or business person patent a business plan, when they think that one good idea without heavy technical implementation should be something that they can solely profit on.

    Besides, most of the actually successful business people that I have met don't feel a need to patent business ideas or processes. Of course, these generally are people who liked working in a field and started their own companies because of that, and knew the tech and work, not simply how a spreadsheet worked.

    --
    Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
  12. It's all in the perspective by Jack+Wagner · · Score: 3, Insightful
    As an independent consultant if I don't have the ability to patent my work then I lose my ability to compete in the workplace. There is no way for me to go up against all these major corporations unless I can patent my innovations and leverage that patent in a court of law.

    I've devised many algorithms that could save companies many man hours by speeding up their applications by Olog(n) however I refuse to use them unless I can be certain that they won't simply take the algorithm and use it elsewhere. I'm not talking about reverse engineering code mind you, I'm talking about the actual ideas that go into the code. For instance lets say, hypothetically, that I devise a sort routine that works anywhere from 35 - 40% faster than the quick sort in with all datasets. I would have to be a fool to just give this away after spending months of research on it when my time and my intelligence are the only things I have that I can charge for.

    I think the patent system is pure capitalism at it's best and may the best and brightest and first to market be the guy who wins. Patents are as American as Apple Pie and Baseball as far as I'm concerned.

    --


    Wagner LLC Consulting Co. - Getting it right the first time
    1. Re:It's all in the perspective by ip_vjl · · Score: 4, Insightful

      That's what contracts between you and that company are for. You specify in the contract what rights they have with the work you provide, anything outside of that and they can be sued for damages.

      In your example, if another person independently came up with the same method went to use it on his jobs (without even knowing about you) he'd be infringing on your patent and could be sued. That example has NOTHING to do with you protecting your work from companies with which you do business.

      Sounds like you're looking for the goverment to protect you from your own poorly-written contracts.

  13. Re:an elegant solution by Farley+Mullet · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I have to take issue with your suggestion that chemicals should be non-patentable. Given the commercial exploitability, R&D costs, and relative ease of copying once the R&D heavy lifting has been done, chemical compounds are exactly the sort of thing that patents should protect. Why would companies sink millions into R&D for potentially useful compounds (say, enzymes to metabolize oil spills, or self-repairing fabrics) if anyone could exploit that R&D latterly?

    In general, patents and IP are a more complicated issue than can be dealt with in the sort of single-sentence answers (like "Ban patents!" or "Ban patents on chemicals, software, and business methods!") that are popular here on /.

  14. I'm torn by tbase · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This is such a tough issue for me. On the one hand, this post makes a very valid point - businesses with new methods have thrived without the help of patents. But these days, there are so many more businesses where the business model essentially is the product, so why not have some sort of protection? Look at NetFlix. Nobody (including them) could make a go of online rentals, until they came up with a new method. Now if they have no protection, they can be wiped out in a matter of months by a corporate behemoth that has the resources to basically take their business out from under them once they're sure it will work.

    Before you slam me for defending business model patents, understand that I'm just voicing the other side of the coin - and I don't mean that big companies should be protected - this can protect the little guy that can only become big with at least some temporary protection. I agree that there are massive abuses in all areas of patent law, but I don't think wiping out certain types or all of them is the answer. While big corporations may have perverted the patent system into being its bitch, if it's obliterated completely, then only the largest companies with the most resources will profit from innovation, and when that happens, there will be far fewer innovators.

    --

    666-607: 6th floor apartment of the beast
  15. Persuasively? by dpille · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Makes the argument persuasively.

    I'm not so sure there's anything persuasive in the article. All it really asks you to do is agree that patentability of fast food is ludicrous.

    You can make a short persuasive analysis and reach the same conclusion, just by hitting those same sort of historic ideals: a patent system was created to 'promote the useful arts' with (among others) limited monopoly justified by getting ideas clearly into the public domain sooner and allowing for further innovation. The first steam engines were patented, from there you get internal combustion.

    A patent for selling auction items at a fixed price, or many of the business method patents we see, however, are dead ends. (Oooh, I know, I'll sell fixed price items at a fixed price!!) By failing to promote further steps on a technological ladder, business method patents don't give back to the public what the patent system was created to do.

  16. Maybe this is way [they weren't patented before] by Nom+du+Keyboard · · Score: 4, Insightful
    The mail-order catalogue, the moving assembly line, the decentralized corporation, the frequent-flier mile, the category-killer store--none of these radical ideas were patented.

    Perhaps in the beginning such radical ideas weren't even considered for patenting because they were so radical who ever thought they'd work out so well.

    And afterwards it was too late.

    Most people trying to make a radical idea work are usually too busy to think about patents.

    --
    "It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
  17. So where do you draw the line? by beavis88 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Using your example, if you've implemented your new process properly, you should have a BIG leg up on the competition -- even if they do copy your innovation. While you're selling your cheaper-to-produce widget (either undercutting your competition, or reaping higher margins), they are scrambling to work the new business process into their existing assembly lines, figuring out how to pay for it, etc.

    You say that "the idea of renting DVDs over the Internet does not seem unique to me" -- to which I say, a streamlines manufacturing process to produce widgets does not seem unique to me. You're still producing the exact same widget as your competitor, albeit at a lower cost.

    I could see patenting a method of creating a widget with the same functionality, but using different components. But I'd have to drink an awful lot to be convinced of the merits of patents on business processes.

    Black and white solutions rarely work as well as was intended, but this is one place where I think a gray area may be a killer.

  18. Fast Food ... by Tranvisor · · Score: 4, Interesting

    For all you people who think that McD's came up with everything, remember that the first fast food place to come up with the drive-thru window was Wendy's. May seem obvious now, but back then it was huge that you could get your food in less then 10 minutes.

    Who knows how long we wouldn't have the drive-thru had McD's stifled all the Wendy's and Burger Kings out there from making their own innovations.

    1. Re:Fast Food ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny
      May seem obvious now, but back then it was huge that you could get your food in less then 10 minutes.

      Thankfully I can now get my 1400 calorie cheeseburgers without even taking the effort to haul my fat ass out of the car these days. Woohoo! Way to go Wendys. I'll take a biggie size triple cheeseburger and fries please!

  19. Patenting ideas as business methods by Alomex · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The biggest problem is that business patents essentially open up patenting ideas, which you are not supposed to be able to. Over a hundred years ago, you actually needed to build one of your gadgets and bring it to the patent office to be able to patent it. This became unpractical and the USPTO allowed diagrams instead. But now I can walk up to the patent office and patent the idea of using computers for selling sex services over the internet and it would get a green light as a 'business method' patent.

    In reality the hard part of selling sex over the net is coming up with the actual mechanical interface (ick!). That is what is worthy of patent protection.

    Ditto for one-click purchase. This is trivial. What is not trivial is coming and should be patentable is a specific method for tracking state using a cookie with enough security features to make it fool proof.

  20. the individual inventor is purely apocryphal by abe+ferlman · · Score: 4, Insightful

    There are no individual inventors tinkering in their garages without corporate sponsorship anymore, except maybe Dean Kamen.

    The vast majority of patents are held by coroporations. The inventions of individual inventors are owned by corporations because of an employment agreement or are sold to a corporation for a pittance for fear that the corporation will win any legal battle owing to their superior financial resources, regardless of the merit of their claims.

    Individual inventors already are out of business. Make patents non-transferrable and make ip agreements that assign ownership invention to corporations illegal and they'll be back in business.

    --
    microsoftword.mp3 - it doesn't care that they're not words...
    1. Re:the individual inventor is purely apocryphal by miles_thatsme · · Score: 2, Interesting

      "Make patents non-transferable and make IP agreements that assign ownership invention to corporations illegal"... nice idea, but I hate to point out the "P" in your "IP" stands for "property". Intellectual property is nothing other than a legal fiction that grants the ability to dispose of an intangible in the same manner as rights associated with things.

      Bit like saying we need aircraft regulations that prevent planes from leaving the ground.

      Common law copyright regimes have a strange beast called "moral rights" in a work, but even those do not go nearly as far as you're proposing...

  21. then... VOTE by *weasel · · Score: 2, Insightful

    call your representatives, amass a constituency who is educated on the issue and bring it up. VOTE out people who aren't responsive and VOTE in people who are.

    heck, run for office and get the thing on the agenda.

    you can't complain about litigation if you don't get involved in the process.

    odds are a staggering percentage of people who read /. don't even vote. i mean, what's great vote turnout anymore? 40%?

    (those who participate are exempted from my rant).

    --
    // "Can't clowns and pirates just -try- to get along?"
    1. Re:then... VOTE by CrackHappy · · Score: 3, Interesting

      You have a good point. If you don't like the system, find a way to change it. That takes active participation. Bitching about the political system in an online forum does NOTHING to change it. Getting off your lazy ass and getting down to the voting booth, or working for a political party takes guts, but it gets YOUR agenda taken into account.

      Regardless of what I think of the people running for office, I STILL VOTE, even if it's for NONE OF THE ABOVE.

      --
      1f u c4n r34d th1s u r34lly n33d t0 g37 l41d Capitalization really works: i helped my uncle jack off a horse
    2. Re:then... VOTE by Fjord · · Score: 2, Insightful

      i'm exempt from voting because I'm not a citizen, but I do have to ask the question: who do you vote for? What party or even candiate is against business process patents. This stuff just isn't talked about in primaries and debates.

      And even if there were a candiate that does opposed business proces patents, what do you do if their other issues conflict with your ideas.

      I personally thing low voter turnout is because the two main candiates are so close that it doesn't matter, and no candiate bats 100% on agreeable opinions.

      --
      -no broken link
    3. Re:then... VOTE by SeattleGameboy · · Score: 2, Interesting

      There is a very simple way to do this TODAY! Create a Website where anyone (registered voters) who is interested in this issue can pledge their votes to any candidate who public declares support for it. Once we create a simple, direct position statement (i.e. Business Method Patents should be abolished), we can start collecting signatures. If we can gain enough signatures (~100k), we can go to presidential candidates and ask for their positions on this issue. Any candidate whose position is closest to the position statement would get the votes of the group. Collecting ~100k signature would not be that hard if someone like /. would get behind it!!!

  22. Bent -- not wrong. by cait56 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The article clearly points out that the problem is in patenting business procedures, rather than true inventions.

    If you review the history, there were two changes in the recent interpretation of patent law.

    • A presumption was created that an invention was innovative, and that it was almost up to the examiner to prove that it was not. Before the 80s patents were rejected on the sole grounds that while the applicant may have been the first to develop the technique, anybody researching such a product would have done the same thing. We need to get back to that interpretation.
    • Software patents were allowed. More precisely the artificial preference for solutions realized in hardware was removed.

    The problems are related to granting patents for things that are a) not specific solutions, merely statement of problems, and b) obvious.

    So I believe we need to restore the orignal presumption that a proposed patent is not sufficiently innovative. The other thing that has changed since when the patent system was mostly considered to be working is that the world has sped up. A 17 year period may have made sense in the 19th century, it is way too long for the 21st.

    But none of those are arguments against the inherent ideas of patents. Citing the current abuses of the patent system as an arguments against patents in general is like citing Windows 95 as an argument against having an OS.

  23. Re:an elegant solution by PickaBooga · · Score: 5, Interesting

    The idea that patents help the individual inventor is a myth.

    The best resource I know is Don Lancaster's "The Case Against Patents":
    For most individuals and small scale startups, patents are virtually certain to result in a net loss of time, energy, money, and sanity.

    One reason for this is the outrageously wrong urban lore involving patents and patenting.
    A second involves the outright scams which inevitably surround "inventions" and "inventing".
    A third is that the economic breakeven needed to recover patent costs is something between $12,000,000.00 and $40,000,000 in gross sales. It is ludicrously absurd to try and patent a million dollar idea.
    Don Lancaster is a old-school hardware/AppleII hacker. On his website he lists a lot of alternatives to patenting that are actually helpful to the individual inventor.

  24. No Easy Answers by rward · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Congress is where the change has to come from because our court system normally avoids deciding cases based on broad public policy concerns where narrower issues can decide matters. Also, the Court of Appeals defers to their precendents and is rarely inclined to overturn them.

    Unfortunately, the patent system is based more on who gets there first with an application for an idea rather than who invents first - although that still is an important factor. As a result, while a method idea may be applicable in many different areas, i.e. algorithms can be used to model financial transactions as well as used in code, he who files first wins. And applications are filed with claims designed to provide as broad protection as possible.

    Patent applications are published after 18 months from the filing date or on the date they are granted, whichever comes first. With a publication before the grant, a party can file an interference with the PTO but they have to KNOW about the filing. Most small concerns do not have time or the money to do this.

    Furthermore, with the way that Congress has extended the terms for copyrights in the last 10 or 15 years something tells me that enacting such legislation would be an uphill fight.

    Alas, if you have what you believe is a novel method or process, write it down, date it, have it notarized, and protect it as soon as you can.

  25. The End of File Sharing by Nom+du+Keyboard · · Score: 4, Insightful
    And if someone had managed to patent connecting two computers together over the internet to exchange data, would that have been considered a good idea?

    Or how about the idea of digitally compressing music using a computer program to result in much smaller file sizes with minimal loss of quality, and then refused to license the patent for use. (Note: Macrovision has done something similiar when they patented all the ways they could think of to beat their system, and refuse to permit their use.)

    I believe no one should be allowed to patent something in order to prevent its use. Compulsary licensing under fair terms should be enforced, or we all will be worse -- not better -- off from this system intended to foster inovation.

    --
    "It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
  26. Alright then: Frist Psot ! by mechant_evil · · Score: 2, Funny

    Frist Psot, Patent pending, 2003, All rights reserved

    I'm sure i'm gonna be able to fool a bunch of customers with something similar to First Post.

  27. Case Law and Congress's answer by Dan+Berlin · · Score: 4, Informative

    Cert. was denied in State Street Bank in 1999.
    That's why it's still good law.
    The Supreme Court has smacked down CAFC on quite a few occasions when they produce completely strange opinions.
    This happens because CAFC seems to have a bunch of judges who think patents are god's gift, and that everything should be patentable under the sun, and a bunch of judges who think that patents should be strictly limited and enforced.
    I find myself agreeing with about half the decisions, and vehemently hating the other half.

    In this case, however, you are correct, and the Supreme Court thought Congress should do something about it.

    Which they did.
    They passed the "Intellectual Property and Communications Omnibus Reform Act of 1999".

    It contains the so-called "First Inventor Defense." This defense provides a first inventor (or "prior user") with a complete defense in patent infringement lawsuits, whenever an inventor of a business method (or prior user) uses the invention but does not patent it.

  28. The argument against software patents by heironymouscoward · · Score: 4, Informative

    (Sumamrized from a lecture by Richard M. Stallman).

    The argument against software patents is made on three grounds:

    1. the products of the software industry are so large and complex (because of the lack of physical constraints) that the scale of 'invention' is hundreds times greater than in the physical world.

    2. patents are expensive (10k Euro in Europe) and rarely can small businesses or individuals afford to aquire them.

    3. even when people overcome point 2, they find that the large patent portfolios of large companies render their patents useless.

    Conclusion: large companies purchase patents in order to protect not their inventions, but their competitive advantage. Since innovation comes from smaller teams, patents thus work against innovation.

    Software patents exaggerate what is a manageable problem with physical patents, and turn it into a serious problem for smaller designers. Basically patents allow large businesses to collaborate with burocracy to create barriers against the entrance of smaller groups.

    This is bad, corrupt, and economically stupid.

    End of argument.

    --
    Ceci n'est pas une signature
  29. These patents will go before the Supreme Court... by alispguru · · Score: 2, Insightful

    ... right after someone patents a legal procedure as a business method. As it is right now, lawyers have a vested interest in more stuff being patentable - more patents means more searches, more filing fees, and more lawsuits, hence more money for lawyers.

    When lawyers have to have their documents scanned for patent violations before filing them, they'll begin to get a taste of what the rest of us have to put up with, and maybe they'll work to prune it back a bit.

    --

    To a Lisp hacker, XML is S-expressions in drag.
  30. FYI History of Patents by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The first written evidence of a patent was probably around Aristotle's time (Aristotle's Politics). Here, Hippodamus calls for a system that rewards people who discover useful things for the STATE (whic Aristotle condemns, saying that law should not change so quickly). Honor the creator of a useful thing and we will recieve more usefull things.

    The first "real" patent system probably came about in Venice in the 1400's for corn mill designs, and to Brunelleschi for a marble transportation barge.

    The Venetian law reduces to writing the basics of the modern patent law:

    1. Devices
    2. Registered with and agency
    3. new and useful
    4. not previously made
    5. reduced to perfection
    6. 10 year term

    However, it did give Venetian rebublic the rights to use any invention without paying the inventor.

  31. Flint Knapping by jafac · · Score: 2, Interesting

    If someone had patented the process of Flint Knapping, we, as a species, would never have made it INTO the Stone Age. Let alone, to the Information Age. It's all about the Information - and if it remains free, we progress. If it's contained, we, as a species are contained.

    --

    These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.
  32. Re:an elegant solution by waterbear · · Score: 3, Informative

    I wouldn't abolish them altogether, but they should be restricted to physical devices that must be built from components. Not chemicals, not software, and most certainly not business methods!!

    The view expressed in the parent post (partly) tallies with older understandings of what the patent (and copyright) clause in the US Constitution meant, where it talks about promoting the progress of useful arts. 'Useful arts' were understood to mean anything about how to make useful things. Processes, as a patentable category, were then understood to mean processes for making useful things or doing something to them for practical purposes. The parent poster goes further than many, in wanting to exclude chemicals too, after all they are manufactured products of a different kind, and making them is clearly one of the useful arts, but business methods have hardly been considered inventions till now.

    The Federal appeal courts come very close to taking over lawmaking roles that belong to legislators, when they interpret words in the patent act (such as 'process') in isolation from their context and history. They (in this example) inflate the word to cover some unheard-of category, never previously considered to amount to an invention.

    Interestingly, one of the early extensions of patent law going specifically beyond 'useful arts' or 'manufactures' occurred in the former Soviet Union, where the law allowed patents for [business] 'rationalization proposals'. I wonder (perhaps too flippantly, considering the seriously repressive results of this sort of legal development) if the US judges realize that they are following a communist example? :)

    About a hundred years ago, an official committee of enquiry into patent law wrote that "the grant of invalid patents is a serious evil insomuch as it tends to the restraint of trade". They meant that honest business people were being harassed and intimidated by the owners of patents that never should have been issued because they were not substantially new. In earlier times, it used to be decided that it was not substantially new just to do something that had already been done, but now to do it in any mechanical way -- the broad idea of mechanising was common currency. IMO it would also be better to consider the broad idea of adapting some existing thing for software, or for the internet, as common currency. Current law surely is not going far enough to protect the business community in the right to do things that should remain open for public use.

  33. Business methods <> new technology by Atario · · Score: 3, Insightful
    Now technology has struck again--people are inventing new ways to make money.
    How is a business method a new technology? Come to that, how is any algorithm a new technology?
    In fact, lawmakers have proposed bills that would make things even worse, such as allowing sports "techniques" to be patented. Imagine pitchers paying a royalty every time they threw a forkball.
    If an algorithm is patentable, then the forkball, logically, must be patentable, as must every conceivable dance, as must every way of playing a musical instrument, as must hanging toilet paper overhanded, as must touch-typing, as must anything you or anyone else ever does.
    whiny littly communists. "It's too hard to make money when the other guy has a shiny new business model. Mommy, make him share!" Bah.
    Ah, a troll. Never mind. For a second, I thought you actually believed what you were saying.
    --
    "A great democracy must be progressive or it will soon cease to be a great democracy." --Theodore Roosevelt
  34. Basic Problem by Jerf · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I think the basic problem is the patent system is not designed to handle software or business method patents. It was set up from day one to handle physical objects and processes, and it does that tolerably well. It's possible to look at two processes or objects and make a reasonable determination whether they are the same. The equivalent is not really possible for software or business method patents.

    Remember one of the purposes of patents was not to lock up entire ideas, but lock up one implementation, encouraging others to create other implementations to stimulate market competition. Since the patent system is fundamentally unsound in this domain, and has no reasonable way to determine if two things are the same, the patent system has "defaulted" to the broadest possible interpretation of "same" (as opposed to the narrowest possible, in which case it would be virtually impossible to violate a patent, patents would be nearly worthless, and by extension, the Patent Office would be nearly worthless and powerless, which is the Number One Anathema to a beauracracy). As a result it's not possible to create alternate implementations without automatically infringing.

    Patents do not belong in this domain, they are downright oxymoronic.

  35. "First Strike" patents by PhantomHarlock · · Score: 3, Interesting

    n addition to what's in the article, I have my own observation: the default action now for companies is to run out and get a business method patent - not because they believe it will make them money, but to prevent others from getting the same frivolous patent and suing them. It's become necessary as a means of survival under the current interpretation of the laws. My guess is that's why netflix.com got their patent on DVD rentals. They saw what was happening to Ebay, etc, and didn't want to get buried under that kind of litigation. Pretty sad. I think the law is broken and that ruling needs to be overturned or superceded.

  36. It's about ideas, not software by anagama · · Score: 3, Insightful

    There are lots of comments about software patents, but that is really a seperate issue. The issue here is with patenting "ideas". Imagine you want to create a service that uses Apache and MySQL to serve some sort of content based on user form input. I'll bet you a quarter you'll find patents describing this process, granted to people who had nothing to do with either software program. Could it be more insane to grant a patent to someone who describes a way to use software? We're not talking about the developer, we're talking about using the software - in essence, these patent whores inhibit the adoption of existing works that they did not create. That's BS.

    And say all you want about prior art invalidating the patent. That's only valid if the small-business person can afford the fight.

    --
    What changed under Obama? Nothing Good
  37. Re:an elegant solution by Farley+Mullet · · Score: 2, Interesting
    For the same reason the makers of Tylenol didn't stop making Tylenol once Kroger Brand Acetominephine came on the market: they still make uber-tons (like a ton, only uber) of money off of it.

    That's not the question. They might still be making money off of it, but one key benefit of the patent period is that the original inventor gets to recover their investment during the period where they have exclusive rights. You have to wonder if Tylenol would have been so willing to sink money into R&D for acetaminophen if they knew that Kroeger could exploit their work within a matter of months instead of years. And would they still have a dominant market position if they didn't have their period of exclusivity to establish themselves?

    Why aren't we told if it's an editor moderating our posts?

    Who cares?

  38. Time to learn from history by jbn-o · · Score: 2, Interesting
    Don't forget that without strong intellectual property laws, the GPL would not exist, and it would be in nobody's interest to share code or ideas for fear that they would get stolen.

    The GNU General Public License depends on copyright law, not "intellectual property" laws (whatever those are). Intellectual property consists of not one cohesive set of laws but a diverse and sometimes conflicting set of disparate laws that cannot be properly understood if you refer to them as a whole.

    As for being in nobody's interest to share--before the GNU Project existed virtually everyone shared code and ideas freely. Richard Stallman talked about this community (which he was a part of) because it highlights the jarring change that drove him to start the GNU Project. You should listen to his talks on the subject.

    Software patents (as they have come to be known) were unnecessary for most of the time people have been writing computer software. Thus we can show by existence that people do not need these patents in the field of software to innovate. I don't know about other fields of endeavor, but in computer software they are generally unwanted and they actually serve to retard innovation.

  39. Stop software patents, copyright is just fine. by jbn-o · · Score: 3, Insightful
    Fast moving/imaginative developers get to protect their code for a while at least.

    First, I would need to see why this is necessary at all. I understand businesses and some individuals desire it and are now getting used to having software patents, but history shows most of the history of computer software development went along without these patents (or without them being exploited, depending on the timeframe). To me that says we don't really need them. Also, there are instances of organizations not being able to provide computer users with a lively competitive arena for computer software (including through cross-licensing which kills the competition-exclusion nature of patents). To me this says they are not victimless.

    I want to encourage a lot of individuals, organizations, and small businesses to make and distribute software. And I want them to be able to compete with larger firms like IBM, HP, and Microsoft (each holds a lot of patents and licenses to deal in other patents). So I favor completely ceasing issuing or renewing any more software patents and letting all current ones expire (I'm not aware of any being renewed, but I wouldn't want to let any organization think they can continue to keep old software patents in force). Thus businesses will be minimally disrupted for the software patents they've acquired, and the field of software development can return to the time where there was fierce competition on features.

    Furthermore, I think it's fine to depend on copyright law (with a reasonable term of copyright, but that's a different discussion).

  40. Don't like 'em by the+eric+conspiracy · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Basically I don't like the idea of business process patents. The patent system was devised in order to promote the advancement of technologies; this seems to be a poor fit to the fundamental idea and is bound to damage the patent system by dragging it into inappropriate applications.

    On the other hand I could see a big advantage to the concept of a business process patent - the end of the management fad. If companies patent their processes we won't have pointy-haired bosses coming back from hunting trips with their peers full of jackass ideas based on copying what the other company is doing (neglecting that the other company is totally different). I think that maybe the world would be a much better place if this turns out to be the result of the business process patent. And this isn't as far-fetched as you might think - several years ago I heard a senior manager actually state that business processes spread so rapidly precisely because of the fact that they cannot be patented (which was true at the time).

    Rapid desemination of GOOD ideas is a good thing. The question is how many of these business processes are actually good ideas and can stand the test of time in the marketplace before they are proven and deserve wide adoption?

  41. Netflix, Re:I'm torn by phliar · · Score: 2, Insightful
    Look at NetFlix. Nobody (including them) could make a go of online rentals, until they came up with a new method.
    You have very little faith in the market, apparently. Just because the entrants so far have been nincompoops doesn't mean we should help some schmoe with a feeble idea make megabucks. Ok, that's just hyperbole. What I'm getting at is: the Netflix idea is not one that's good enough to allow the "inventor" to compete with an established behemoth like Blockbuster. So? The "inventor" should go to Blockbuster and get hired, saying "look at this cool idea I had -- hire me and I'll think of more." Remember that being first to market is a huge incentive for any business. Any competitors will need months or years to tool up and start production; that's when you make a killing. Then later when all the competitors are up and running, you'll have to go back to competing with them. There's a built-in benefit; we don't need government intervention in something the market already handles.

    This model does not apply to software, of course. You might say that it's because the "time to re-tool" advantage of being first to market is gone. No, in fact it's because software is just math made concrete, and math, like other "laws of nature," cannot be patented. (You can copyright your expression of the law or theorem, but not the law or theorem itself. No RSA patent, no LZW patent; no MP3 patent. No one can copy your code without your permission, but they can derive their own expressions of the law or theorem, i.e. write an MP3 encoder and a GIF reader.) Megabucks are only made by building a better widget, and/or by providing a service that other people want.

    --
    Unlimited growth == Cancer.
  42. Software Patents by Javagator · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The purpose of a patent is not to enrich individuals or corporations, but to allow them to recoup research and development costs. The classic example is a drug company that spends millions of dollars developing a pill that only costs pennies to produce. The drug company is given a legal monopoly for a period of time so that they can sell the pill with large profit margins to regain their investment. For a patent to serve its purpose, the following criteria need to be met:

    1. The formula for the pill was not obvious to anyone.

    2. The R&D effort was considerable.

    3. Without the prospect of a patent, the drug company would not have developed the pill.

    Software is altogether different. Software developers recoup their investment by selling their software. Being first to market is a huge competitive advantage. Copycat developers are still going to have to spend a comparable amount of time and money to produce a competing product. The software industry is going to thrive without patents. They are not necessary and only reduce competition.

  43. Why? by MickLinux · · Score: 2, Interesting

    You say that you should have time not to worry about being deluged with copycats. Can you say exactly why you think this? In the contrary position, let me point out:

    (1) Copycats will still be copycats; people who aren't already tied to one of the copycaterers will tend to prefer your solution
    (2) You will already have time not to worry about copycats: the development time that it takes the copycaterers to figure out your software.
    (3) You already enjoy the fruits of your labor. If Microsoft, Oracle, and SCO are copycatering your work and your new sales are hurting, your obvious solution at that point is to sell out to one of them [that is, they get all your customers, but also have to work the merging of the two formats for the next version]. That way, you get your profit without further responsibility.
    (4) If you think that there is some specific amount of time you should not have to worry about copycats, what exactly is that specific amount of time, and why exactly that amount? Why not a year more? Why not a year less?
    (5) Patents are still not free market, and do damage the economy. They also most often make it difficult to enter the business, which keeps new jobs to a minimum.

    --
    Correct Horse Battery Staple: 72 bits of entropy. Enter "Correct H" into google. When it generates the phrase, that's
  44. So which is worse? by sbest · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The author says I can patent a business method, to "outlaw my competition". Well, sorta. The
    "legal monoply" of a patent can be argued in court (expensive for individuals, trivial for
    Fortune-500) or it can be waited out for 20 years (boring)...but, okay, it makes a fine
    assertive closing.

    Makes me wonder, though: are business method patents more unhealthy for an industry than the
    opposite situation? That is, in the author's analogy, if the novel business methods of Benjamin
    Day of New York Sun fame were *immediately* copied by his competition...would there be any New York
    Sun fame?

    Put another way...I'm willing to bet that more entreprenaurs have been screwed by competitors
    copying their novel ideas and methods, than competitors have been screwed by entreprenaurs
    obtaining business method patents.