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New Linux PVR Box

Posted by timothy on from the improving-the-boob-tube dept.

An anonymous reader points to this product from Interact-TV, known as Telly, writing "Cool little box. PVR, stores photos, burns VCDs or DVDs (if you get a DVD burner), serves up stored content on your home network, nice gui, works with some satellite and digital cable boxes, 2.4.18 kernel. Freevo or mythTV can do about the same thing but this one is ready out of the box."

59 of 319 comments (clear)

  1. always room for more competition. by sweeney37 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Now that I have a TiVo I could never give it up. But the fact this offers network connectivity, 5.1 digital out, and composite video is quite impressive. The price may seem a little steep, but a new TiVo with a lifetime subscription is about 650-700, but this box is subscription free.

    The real question is the interface going to be able to compete with TiVo? The ability to do season-passes are (IMO) what will make it or break it.

    Mike

    1. Re:always room for more competition. by jj00 · · Score: 2, Informative

      I have to agree with the TiVo comment. I have DirecTV TiVo, and I simply love the interface. I only wish that it could use that interface to play DVDs (10 second replay, progress indicator, remote).

      Another DVR would have to go a long way to pull me away.

    2. Re:always room for more competition. by the_2nd_coming · · Score: 2, Informative

      have you seen the tivo home media option? you plug it into your network, then you have access to your MP3 collection to be available to your stereo, you have access to your photos through your TV, if you have multiple tivo's you have access to the programming sotred on the other tivo's. there is one more thing it lets you do but I am at a loss as to what it is.

      --



      I am the Alpha and the Omega-3
    3. Re:always room for more competition. by __aaklbk2114 · · Score: 5, Informative

      Easy to remember...

      Composite: Color and lumanence Composited (i.e. smashed) together in the same signal. If it's smashed together, it's hard to take apart resulting in quality loss.

      Component: Color and lumanence kept as seperate Components. Not smashed means there's no quality loss (or at least less).

      Just for the record, Component != HDTV. HDTV may be delivered via component signal, however analog and standard def digital can also be delivered via component (ala S-Video, SDI).

      Interestingly enough, there is composite digital video as well (D2) which is loads better than composite analog (although probabaly not used much anymore). However you still get quality loss after many generations of copying.

  2. doesn't support dvd writing *yet* by Palos · · Score: 5, Informative
    From the FAQ:
    Can you record and store TV programs and later burn them on a CD?
    Yes, Telly's Video Library supports an archiving feature. Eventually Telly will support DVD burning; the current MC1000 supports a CD-RW drive. You will be able to expand your unit to include a DVD-RW drive in the near future.

    Also you can't pause the live feed which is imo one of the best features of Tivo

    Is it possible to pause/rewind/skip-commercials of live TV broadcasts?
    Currently not on live TV broadcasts, but once recorded, you can skip 30-second intervals, pause, and rewind.

    1. Re:doesn't support dvd writing *yet* by Laur · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Since it has network connectivity couldn't you just copy the video to your main PC and burn a DVD there (assuming you have a DVD burner on your main PC)?

      --
      When you lose something irreplaceable, you don't mourn for the thing you lost, you mourn for yourself. - Harpo Marx
  3. Backup your DVDs? by sid+crimson · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Not today, but Telly's features don't stop. We will always push the envelope, enhancing features and adding new Telly capabiltities... and being able to make personal use copies of DVDs is on the list!


    If they push the envelope like they claim they will, this will be one excellent box. At $899.00, it's pricey for all but the serious buyers... however it's tough to come in cheaper for a do-it-yourself solution.

    -sid
    1. Re:Backup your DVDs? by Dachannien · · Score: 3, Informative

      I am at about $500, plus a bit of blood/sweat/tears, for mine. Admittedly, the video card was one I had lying around (an old TNT2 with a broken GPU fan that is still holding up nicely).

      Still, the biggest thing holding back MythTV and Freevo is the periodic changes made to the TV listings (the most recent one involved me making manual database changes to get it to change the channel when recording). Until a free, low-bandwidth solution to TV listings is devised (good luck there), this will always be a problem.

  4. Price prohibitive by pheared · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Buy your Telly MC1000 Home Entertainment Server today for only $899.00

    Hell, pick up three or four.

    Until these things cost the same as a VCR I couldn't possibly justify paying the price.

    Of course, I am just about to justify the price of cable, so I guess I'm already a step behind most couch jockeys. It's just that the return of Ren and Stimpy is such an enticing reason to get cable.

    1. Re:Price prohibitive by evilviper · · Score: 3, Insightful
      we are talking about records what's on your TV right?

      No, we are talking about digitizing any analog video source... Got a million VHS tapes? Hook your VCR up to this baby, and make them all into VCDs that will be small, cheap, easy to backup, and playable on any DVD player (or computer). Or, instead, maybe you just want to push the video file to your computer over the network. Maybe you want to convert your home movies into VCD/SVCDs. Or, maybe you just like Futurama, and want to keep it on a medium that isn't a huge hassle to deal with (everyone knows how horrible VHS tapes are, few know how easy digital is to work with)

      Even at 1/3 of the cost it's just an affordable waste of money.

      At $300, it would be slightly more expensive than the computer system I bought with the TV-tuner card I bought to perform the same tasks, but with this, it'll have a good interface, wouldn't have taken the long setup time, and would certainly be quieter, cooler, use up less power, etc.

      If you don't want/need the functionality, that's fine, but don't trash it just because you don't want it.
      --
      Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
  5. Telly� by Blue+Stone · · Score: 4, Interesting
    Telly?

    Bad choice for a trademarked name?
    Here in the UK, "telly" is the generic term for television.

    --
    Corporation, n. An ingenious device for obtaining individual profit without individual responsibility. - Ambrose Bierce
    1. Re:Telly� by kawika · · Score: 5, Funny

      Here in the States, middle-aged nerds like me think of England mostly in terms of Monty Python. When I heard the name and saw it's Linux based, I immediately thought of the "There's a penguin on the telly" sketch. In this case, there's a penguin IN the Telly!

  6. You'll pry my TiVo out of my cold dead hands... by rtphokie · · Score: 4, Informative

    Actually my DirecTiVo. Beautiful digital signal from the bird so high in the sky straight to disk. No recompresssion. Far higher quality than this or any other PVR (other than DishNetwork's PVR).

    1. Re:You'll pry my TiVo out of my cold dead hands... by laing · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I'm curious about the bugs I've seen in my DirecTiVo and I'm wondering if anyone else has seen them too. The unit is a new HNS HDVR2.
      1) When turning on the unit and going straight to the "now playing" list, when you play something, there is no audio. To get audio, you must go to "live tv" and then back to your show on the playlist.
      2) When using the fast-forward (or the skip 30) features, the audio will drop out for a few seconds sometime after you resume playing at normal speed. It seems to happen every time and only mutes the sound for about 2 or 3 seconds.
      3) Sometimes while scrolling through the "now playing list" the unit will hang. It will continue to queue up all the buttons you press but will not respond to any of them for 10 to 15 seconds.
      4) The "please wait" screen seems to stay on the screen for a very very long time. Sometimes it's there for 30 seconds or more.
      5) Not so much a bug as a but a lack of features. How do you find the remaining recording capacity? (You don't!)
      How do you sort the "now playing" list by something other than the date recorded? (You don't!)
      These problems make the unit very annoying to use.

    2. Re:You'll pry my TiVo out of my cold dead hands... by shepd · · Score: 2, Informative

      >2) When using the fast-forward (or the skip 30) features, the audio will drop out for a few seconds sometime after you resume playing at normal speed. It seems to happen every time and only mutes the sound for about 2 or 3 seconds.

      The TiVo is probably searching for the next GOP, audio frame, or perhaps I frame. I suppose it could move backwards and compute where to cut the video, but that'd be a pain, and why bother? This is a problem inherent in all MPEG video.

      With the skip 30 feature, it should just skip to the nearest GOP, but that wouldn't be exactly as advertised.

      >3) Sometimes while scrolling through the "now playing list" the unit will hang. It will continue to queue up all the buttons you press but will not respond to any of them for 10 to 15 seconds.

      This seems to be common to a lot of EPGs on North American receivers. If it's like any of the others I've seen, a fixed firmware (or in your case, software) will be sent down eventually. Seems they don't expect users to "abuse" the guide. ;-)

      It's probably having trouble downloading the latest info and paging through it at the same time.

      >How do you find the remaining recording capacity? (You don't!)

      If it's recording the feeds straight from DBS, it's pretty much impossible (they change the rate on the fly). Although, the rate is usually within the range of 1 mbps to 4.5 mbps. That doesn't really help all that much, though... ("Is it 2 hours or 9 hours I have left?")

      Although I don't own such a unit, these are just edumacated guesses.

      --
      If you could be told what you can see or read, then it follows that you could be told what to say or think - BoC
  7. Okay ... NO by SuperDuG · · Score: 4, Funny
    $899???

    Hell I can build an "almost" top of the line PC for that. The software doesn't look all that impressive and it is still a PC that doesn't look like an entertainment center applaince. Reading the specs of a VIA C3 sub 1 GHz processor with 256 megs of 2100 Ram. This thing is a $200 PC for almost a grand.

    But it runs linux, wait no, that's free.

    Seems like quite the not good deal ...

    --
    Ignore the "p2p is theft" trolls, they're just uninformed
    1. Re:Okay ... NO by kawika · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You have not priced out the components being used. It's a Coolermaster aluminum case for one thing, and includes a very nice wireless mouse and keyboard. So it is NOT a "$200 PC" by any means. The mobo/CPU and TV/video card probably cost that much, then you have to add an 80GB drive and DVD/CD-RW combo drive. And although it does run Linux they have their own (closed-source) software on top of that.

      However, I have to agree that it does seem very expensive if you value your time at $0/hr and would prefer to build all the hardware and write/install the software yourself from scratch. At the volumes they are producing they are not getting any better prices than you would if you bought the components yourself.

      What I wonder about is how this box would stack up compared to the Pioneer/TiVo boxes annnounced a few weeks ago that were supposed to sell for about $1,000. Those had DVD burning built in, the Telly is promising it as a future enhancement.

    2. Re:Okay ... NO by evilviper · · Score: 4, Insightful
      The software doesn't look all that impressive

      That's quite relative. It might not sound impressive, but that's probably because you've never attempted to get a Linux box working as a PVR... It might not be software that requires a lot of effort for a programmer to create, but since nothing like it exists in the Open Source world, it is somewhat impressive.

      MythTV looks like a good start, but the effort required to get it working is significant, and it doesn't do anything BUT timeshift and record. It can't playback your DVD, VCDs, SVCDs, or Divx CDs, it can't save your recorded shows to CD/DVD, it can't playback music or display images, etc... Once MythTV/Freevo gets all these features, then this current software won't be that impressive. For now, since there is nothing else out there like it, it certainly is impresive.

      Take a look at Tivo. People are paying truckloads of money for boxes without half the features this thing has. Admitedly, this is missing a couple features Tivo has, but I believe that could be easily fixed.
      --
      Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
    3. Re:Okay ... NO by Dark_Nova · · Score: 5, Informative

      MythTV looks like a good start, but the effort required to get it working is significant, and it doesn't do anything BUT timeshift and record. It can't playback your DVD, VCDs, SVCDs, or Divx CDs, it can't save your recorded shows to CD/DVD, it can't playback music or display images, etc... Once MythTV/Freevo gets all these features, then this current software won't be that impressive.


      MythTV has most of these features as add-on modules. MythTV's modular design means that there are an ever-growing number of modules that can be used to extend it's already rich feature-set.

    4. Re:Okay ... NO by atrus · · Score: 3, Informative

      MythTV actually has very mature modules that let you play your music library, your DivX file library, check the weather, browse images. Removeable media support (Playback & reading) is absent.

    5. Re:Okay ... NO by tfoss · · Score: 4, Informative
      MythTV looks like a good start, but the effort required to get it working is significant, and it doesn't do anything BUT timeshift and record. It can't playback your DVD, VCDs, SVCDs, or Divx CDs, it can't save your recorded shows to CD/DVD, it can't playback music or display images, etc... Once MythTV/Freevo gets all these features, then this current software won't be that impressive. For now, since there is nothing else out there like it, it certainly is impresive.

      Um, really?

      • Rip, categorize, play, and visualize MP3/Ogg/FLAC/CD Audio files. (FLAC and Vorbis encoding only). Create complex playlists (and playlists containing playlists) through a simple UI.
      • An image viewer/slideshow application.
      • A generic video player module, with automatic metadata lookups.

      -Ted

      --
      -=-=- Quantum physics - the dreams stuff are made of.
    6. Re:Okay ... NO by ziggy_zero · · Score: 4, Informative

      If you want to build your own, here's what you can use to get a close approximation to the Telly MC1000:

      Cooler Master ATC-620C-BX1 (Black) Desktop Case - 108
      Foxconn Allied MicroATX 200W Power Supply - 21
      VIA Motherboard and Integrated 1GHz Nehemiah CPU EPIA-M10000 - 178
      Western Digital "Special Edition" 80GB Hard drive - 92
      Crucial 256MB PC2100 DDR SDRAM - 42
      Lite-On 48x24x48x16 DVD-ROM/CD-RW Drive (Black) - 65
      I guess you'll have to find a TV Tuner card that's compatible with Linux, and can go in a PCI slot - 100?
      I can't find that wireless keyboard, I know I've seen it on NewEgg before though, I don't think it's more than 50
      Linux - free
      Freevo or MythTV - free
      Cables and adapters - 20

      Total cost: ~$680

      So, if you wanted to save yourself some money, I guess you could do that. Needless to say, you won't get a fancy User's Manual or remote control (unless you manage to get a TV Tuner card with one).

      Some notes:
      You could not use the VIA integrated mobo/proc thing, and use a MicroATX motherboard and an AMD processor, and use an AGP TV Tuner card.

      All of the prices (unless I was guessing) came from NewEgg.com.

      --
      I belong to the ______ generation.
    7. Re:Okay ... NO by mr.+methane · · Score: 5, Funny

      A while ago I might have said the same thing.. but to a lot of people, time is more valuable. I've had a PVR since they were pretty new (3 years+?) and even though I paid something like $699 for it, I consider it a terrific buy.

      I figure I watch 10 hours of TV a week. Probably 7 hours are stations with commercials. 20 minutes per hour X 7 hours, that's 2 hours and 20 minutes a week I *don't* spend watching tampax ads.

      In other words, in last three years, I've avoided wasting 400 hours on commercials. I figure my time is worth about $50 an hour, so that's $20k in "free time" I've had available to do other things.

      Valuable things.

      Like posting rants on slashdot.

  8. Umm did you catch the price? by geek · · Score: 2, Insightful

    This thing is a small fortune at 900$ plus tax. How do they expect to compete with that kind of barrier to entry? How do they justify that price when everything else I've seen is half that or less in the case of Tivo?

    I'll pass thanks.

  9. Cool.. but my Xbox does that as well... by mianbao · · Score: 4, Funny

    Cool.. but my Xbox does that as well...

  10. Is it quiet? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I can't find anything on the marketing overview page about it being quiet or not. You'd think they would trumpet, so to speak, the fact if it were a quiet box.

  11. Looks to me like its an all-around analog DVR by ultrapenguin · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The specs include a TV tuner and analog S-Video/Composite inputs. $899 is an OK price to pay for an integrated box, but most people (i dunno, I do) probably have enough parts laying around to make something exactly like this out of common parts.

    And, analog mpeg-2 capture isn't exactly something to be proud of. Hardware mpeg2 encoder cards can be picked up for $100 these days, and this "DVR" doesn't offer any of the advanced features such as skipping during live shows, etc, so why pay more for almost standard PC hardware?

    Now if this supported hdtv recording via firewire, or direct mpeg2 recording off dish network or whatever is today's digital satellite system, that would make it worth the money.

    Analog mpeg2 DVRs dont impress me anymore, too much quality loss, not enough features to make me switch from using a normal PC for similar capture tasks.

  12. The Be All End All by felonious · · Score: 5, Funny

    Why hasn't a company come out with an adult version of the PVR?

    Name it the "Porn-O-Tron" or "Porn-O-Matic"

    Include a subscription business model with various channels of varying fetishes, etc. and market it as just that. Tie it all together and the customers will flood the place...ok bad pun but you get the idea.

    You could even tie in various adult products that plug into the box and someone on the other end could operate them for $19 a minute. Virtual Spanktravision might even be a better name or sub-brand as long as it doesn't canabalize the main brand.

    Porn is BIG business and why hasn't a visionary other than myself come up with this?

    --
    You aren't free to do anything, until you've lost everything.
    1. Re:The Be All End All by glwtta · · Score: 3, Funny
      Include a subscription business model with various channels of varying fetishes, etc. and market it as just that.

      Um... It's called the Internet?

      --
      sic transit gloria mundi
  13. They used a coolermaster chassi by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    This one's really cool, I have planned to build my own system based on MythTV, and that's exactly the chassi I had in mind, it looks so HiFi.

    http://coolermaster.com/case/p620.htm

    1. Re:They used a coolermaster chassi by kawika · · Score: 3, Interesting

      It is a very nice looking box, but it is BIG and most likely too noisy to put next to your TV if used with anything but the ITX boards. It's the size of the old desktop PC cases. There are two 5-inch and two 3-inch bays in the thing. If you fill it with peripherals it will generate way too much heat.

      The Hush looks like it would be much more compatible with an A/V stack, but notice the price and you'll see that the Telly isn't that far off price-wise. And the hush is "just" a PC with no PVR functionality set up on it!

  14. Real reason why it's $899 ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny
    • $75 for the hard drive
    • $25 for the chassis
    • $799 for the rights to use the name "Telly"!!

      Who loves ya Baby?

  15. Bets? by Jay+Maynard · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Anyone want to start a pool on how long this will last before the MPAA gets them shut down?

    I'll take a month...

    --
    Disinfect the GNU General Public Virus!
  16. PVR pricing needs work by gad_zuki! · · Score: 4, Interesting

    You can get network connectivity with a non-authorized ethernet card for Tivos. Do a google search, I think they run about 60 bucks. As far as composite out goes, maybe a video geek can help out here, but considering the source (cable/satellite) it may just be that the law of diminishing returns kicks in real hard after a point and its may not be worth it.

    I kinda dig the standard directivo. Dual tuners, S-Video out, etc. I'd much rather see a cheaper tivo that doesn't hurt the pocketbook too much than just more feature creep.

    From the website:

    >Buy your Telly MC1000 Home Entertainment Server today for only $899.00

    Err no thanks. Where's that $100 Tivo?

    1. Re:PVR pricing needs work by giberti · · Score: 2, Funny

      Tivo2 supports Ethernet. And with the new "Home Media Option" you can even listen to your MP3 collection and surf your digital photo library. Of course at an extra $99 (one time charge) also gives you the ability to add to your play lists remotely... but at $300 (lifetime subscription) + $350 (hardware) + $99 (home media) + $50 (usb 802.11b wireless) + $50 and up (cable bill monthly) why the hell do I drive a piece of crap car again?

      --

      AF-Design, web development.
    2. Re:PVR pricing needs work by gad_zuki! · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Yep. I think the $99 price point is the magic number to keep the Tivo company going and help popularize the technology before the media companies drive Tivo out of the market with their own branded DVRs which will most likely have some sleeping DRM feature that will one day make that handy commercial skip useless or push ads or who knows what else.

      In fact my directivo was $129 at the time. The directv tuner was $60. So for double that I got a Tivo and have been very impressed with the technology since.

      A few people I know have echoed similiar statements "Yeah its awesome but I'm not dropping $250 on a kick-ass VCR." Neither would I.

    3. Re:PVR pricing needs work by evilviper · · Score: 3, Insightful
      A few people I know have echoed similiar statements "Yeah its awesome but I'm not dropping $250 on a kick-ass VCR." Neither would I.

      My whole point was, if it had more significant features, people would be willing to get one. It can't really replace VCRs because there is no removable media, nothing you can remove from the unit, keep in storage, or pass on to a friend.

      In fact my directivo was $129 at the time. The directv tuner was $60.

      But that's not comparable to a standalone unit that has to do the encoding itself. First off, it's going to be a long time before prices drop that low (computers only recently reached the $200 price point, and Tivos are souped-up computers). Besides, even if they get the hardware down to $100, people are still paying a good deal of money to tivo every month, or spending something like $200 more up front on top of the $100 pricetag. Personally, paying $20/month for Tivo would nearly double my monthly TV expenses, and all for a unit that still can't hope to replace a single VCR...
      --
      Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
    4. Re:PVR pricing needs work by gvonk · · Score: 2, Interesting


      Come on, I paid $99 for a Tivo 18 months ago...

      There's no "Besides, even if they get the hardware down to $100" about it.

      --


      El Karma: excelente(principalmente la suma de moderación hecha a los comentarios de los usuarios)
    5. Re:PVR pricing needs work by supercargo · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I just had the "Tivo is just a souped-up VCR" discussion with a non-believer yesterday, except that it wasn't really worth discussing. Tivo is not just a better VCR, the program management bits make it a wholly different beast. Yes, you _can_ do everything Tivo does, manually with a VCR, but you never would, because it's a PITA.

      What was surprising, however, was that four other Tivo owners chimed in, giving glowing reports of how great their PVR is. I have never met a Tivo owner that was not a zealot for the technology--I defy you to find one.

      "...because there is no removable media..." This really isn't at all important.

      --
      -- "He is a being, so brilliant yet so corrupt, which, like a rotten mackerel by moonlight, stinks as it shines." -
    6. Re:PVR pricing needs work by Cpt_Kirks · · Score: 2, Informative

      Where's that $100 Tivo?

      Here it is.

      But it's $115.

  17. Whoa, itvXUL? by ultrapenguin · · Score: 4, Interesting

    From the description of their "media OS" based on Linux, http://interact-tv.com/EOS.php, I noticed something...

    ItvXUL: XML based description language for describing itvgui based applications.

    Does that mean their UI is based on http://www.mozilla.org/projects/xul/?

  18. "I can do it better" ? by Quixote · · Score: 2, Interesting
    I have been considering doing one too. But I can't seem to find a decent capture card for Linux that will do realtime MPEG2 (or even MPEG1) compression in hardware, so that you can pause live TV, record one show while watching another, etc.

    Any ideas?

    1. Re:"I can do it better" ? by exhilaration · · Score: 2, Informative
      a decent capture card for Linux that will do realtime MPEG2

      The Myth TV mailing list suggests that the Hauppage PVR-250 is the best choice. Someone on the list said it can be found for $90 OEM.

      record one show while watching another

      According to the MythTV site, you'll need two TV tuner cards to do that.

  19. Interlaced TV output? by WD · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Sounds like a neat unit, but I have one question...

    TV-Out cards (or video cards with TV-out) generally deinterlace the signal in the process of converting the signal to something that the TV can understand.

    The advantage of this is that the picture can easily be scaled to handle overscan. But the disadvantage is that the image quality, especially in panning scenes, is compromised. An interlaced NTSC signal will display 59.94 fields per second. This will allow for smooth motion, especially in the example of a scrolling ticker at the bottom of the screen. When the signal is deinterlaced, that rate is cut in half to 29.97 and there can be blurring in areas of fast motion.

    If this unit is using standard PC hardware, then it is likely deinterlacing the output. If so, it would make a pretty poor replacment for a DVD player. So much for an all-in-one solution...

    Does this Telly unit have true interlaced TV output? If so, how is it achieved?

    1. Re:Interlaced TV output? by Op7imus_Prim3 · · Score: 2, Informative

      All TV is interlaced unless your talking about 100HZ or progressive scan TV's.

      The problem with these sets displaying fast motion is that they merge the field together to give one full frame. This is great for a drama, but if you want to watch the footy, then the ball is moving so quick it is in a different position in each field. If you merge these fields together you get an elongated ball. Some of the newer sets have a funky setting to fix this and I have no idea how it works, but it uses some algorithm to determine where the ball should be, and needs a whole seperate chip.

      But to answer your question, it does do interlaced outpt, otherwise your TV couldn't display it. So while you PC monitor is de-interlaced, anything getting sent out the TV out part of the card must be interlaced. And if you use an S video cable you should be getting quality that equals your average DVD player. So interlacing is not the be all and end all of TV quality. Go out and buy a digital TV. You know you want to...

      --
      EGG, the Electronic Gamers Guild
  20. It cries to be a Beos App! by teamhasnoi · · Score: 2, Interesting
    I still think this is a place where some enterprising young/old upstart programmer could make a name for him/her self. Write a Beos PVR or port Myth TV (which seems to be updated quite frequently).

    Beos is already in use professionally as a audio scheduler (Tunetracker), I see no reason that video can't be added.

    Of special note, using Beos would allow you to 'roll your own' on *much* cheaper hardware than Win or Linux - an old Pentium 233/64 ram most likely could handle the job, since it is ass-fast on old boxen. Add a big ol' harddrive and you're in bidness.

    1. Re:It cries to be a Beos App! by teamhasnoi · · Score: 2, Informative
      Uh. Your info is sadly out-of-date.

      I type this from a dual booter, BeOS and WinXP a P4 with an nVidia card and C-Media sound in it. If you had any interest other than trolling, you could go to bebits.com and see that there are drivers and patches for all that you mention, plus plenty you don't. I dual boot for my pro audio Aardvark Q10 (which *isn't* supported by linux, and a far cry from 'most onboard audio chipsets')

      Myth TV may 'be the desktop' but BeOS *is* the desktop - the GUI is BeOS and viceversa. Linux may excel at some stuff, but it still isn't as responsive as BeOS. (God forbid some newbie wants to install or configure something)

      OBeOS hardly has five developers, and somehow they have managed more than 5 years of work on their OS. So please get over yourself, and stop believing everything you read on /. and do some (any) research before you troll.

  21. Re:VCR's used to be more than that.. by pheared · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Yeah, duh.

    I was clearly talking about the current price of VCRs. You're just pointing out exactly what my problem with the technology is: that it is still too costly to adopt.

  22. Paving the road for better products by seismic · · Score: 3, Interesting

    This Telly device does seem expensive. What's exciting is the prospect of better, cheaper, and more mainstream products to come.

    When this concept becomes mainstream things will really get cool.

    It took mp3 players to legitimize the mp3 format and show consumers that audio cd's are limiting. It will take PVR/media playing hardware to do the same for movies and tv.

  23. People missing the point by msanchez426 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    You guys are really missing the point of this device. It's true it's similar to TIVO/ReplayTV but go and read everything in the web site:
    -This is a PVR and DVD player. The only TIVO that has this is the fancy panasonic for 1000$ that hasn't come out yet.
    -It's also a cdwriter and can be upgraded to a DVD writer in due time.
    -It's network transparent even for Windows/Mac people, no extra usb ethernet needed.
    -It's expandable without having to hack it, you can add two hard drives bought of the shelf. I'd put it in the infinite expandable category just for that. BTW the extra space will look like one volume.
    -It's standard linux, it has a web server, samba, etc. So it replaces whatever old box that you have lying around as a server, storage or whatever else.
    -You can access the interface which seems nicely done both directly and remotely via a web server.
    -As a plus it has all kinds of media playing capabilties: video, audio, photos.
    -The one linked is the analog one, there is also a digital version for 100$ bucks more.

    Finally, and very importantly they give you the SDK for producing your own software, they seem keen on open source and people developing their own little apps. So if you think a feature is missing, heck you can go and program it yourself. Isn't that the most important feature?

    That's on the positive side. The one thing that it seems to lack is replay as it records. But that should be fixable if we overflow their mailboxes with requests ;-)

    Disclaimer: I don't work for them or knew anything about them until I read this post but I've been waiting for just this since forever. It has everything I wanted in a tivo.

    Platy

  24. Re:GPL violation? by Jimithing+DMB · · Score: 4, Informative

    Sure. Buy the unit and make a formal request in writing for the source code to the GPLed software that you have just purchased in binary form. If requested to do so, provide media (such as a CD-R in modern times, though the GPL mentions tapes) and return postage for that media.

    Once you have said source code, you are free to redistribute it (unmodified or modified) under the terms of the GPL.

    Until you have the binary, you have NO rights to request the source code under the GPL.

    What bothers me most about your comment is the way you think you are somehow entitled to receive the source just because you exist. There is a good balance in the GPL (source needs only be provided to those who have received the binary) and this kind of demand for source code you have no right to receive really puts a black eye on the free software movement.

    Have you even bothered to read and understand the GPL? By the sound of your comment, obviously not. Forget about current practice, pretend you are a lawyer for a bit, and read it. Then wait a few days and read it again. Then wait a few weeks and read it again. It's not a particularly difficult document to read, but like anything it helps to read it multiple times to get a better understanding of it. Any programmer with a modest amount of legal experience should be able to grok it. The GPL is something that anybody serious about writing free software should be quite familiar with. Why trust some schmuck's "Reader's Digest" version of it when you can read the real thing?

  25. Compare the prices... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    A comparable TIVO would cost you the following:

    TIVO Series2 - $349.00
    Non-transferable lifetime subscription - $299.00
    Network Interface - $100.00
    DVD/CD burner - Unavailable
    TOTAL ------> $748.00

    Telly 80GB DVR - $899.00

    So $150.00 buys you:
    1. Privacy (nobody downloading your viewing habits)
    2. A cd burner
    3. Easy upgrades
    4. Unmatched hackability

    I for one was excited about this box becuae it does give me more freedom. I ABOSLUTELY FSCKN HATE the idea of subscriptions (on top of my already high cable bill) for a TV guide. The idea that one day there will be more ads with TIVO and that it takes an act of god to hack your TIVO are all reasons to consider this.

    Could you do a similar thing for less? Sure, but this is designed to be a consumer device. In terms of cost of ownership, I think it is VERY comparable to the latest TIVO's.

    If the SVCD's are of a good quality (think good quality VHS that doesn't degrade over time) then this box has a place for home video archiving. Also as pointed out there are a lot of future ideas and extensions coming down the line.

    My guess is that this box even supports SSH connections and looks like a Linux box all the way. Sounds like a great deal to me.

  26. This device doesn't impress me. by VPN3000 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    For starters, I bought a Ultimate TV unit for DirecTV for about $35 after all the rebates. I know you anti-capitalists want 'freedom' to use digital recorders to record staticy broadcast or analog cable.. Yeah, you do that. I'll live in the 2000's, thank you very much. Any digital satellite service is superior to any cable or broadcast network on the planet in regards to quality, quality, and price. Want to argue about that? Ok. Fine. You have reality issues.

    Secondly, You could build a AMD K7 box, get a lian li mini ATX case (the new pancake fits in with AV components really well), 100 gig drive, ATI all in wonder pro, DVD, and a good sound card for less than this box -- but have greater performance. Plus you'll have access to all the great PC applications and HDTV outputs ($35 dongle required).

    You could also get a used Xbox and a mod chip for 1/5th the price of this thing and get most of the functionality with Xbox Media Player. It also supports HDTV..

    I'd suggest not getting excited and feeding the hype for these over-priced hacks. There's just no excuse to spend 900 bucks on something that doesn't do anything ground-breaking.

    1. Re:This device doesn't impress me. by anubi · · Score: 5, Interesting
      Dear VPN:

      I think you have a lot of us "anti-capitalists" and our open-source fanaticism all wrong. For many of us, the sticking point is *not* price, whether it be music or video recorders. The value is in our own ability to maintain/upgrade/customize whatever we have, and have the confidence that if anything at all goes wrong, we aren't held hostage at bugpoint at someone else's mercy. That's a good way to get raped.

      Its just a philosophy. Some of us are very uncomfortable with the idea that somebody else controls something we have. Its bad enough the government traces us and taxes us on our homes, cars, and jobs. But if there is anything the electrical power brokers in California have taught me, its don't let myself get cornered. Don't let businessmen ever get you in a spot where you have to do whatever they say in order to "protect" your investment. Our California governor Gray Davis made like a nice guy and gave in to all the guys who knew how to play him like a fiddle. Where did that get us? Was that Pro-Capitalism? Or was that greed and control gone horribly wrong?

      I don't like the idea of being a sharecropper.

      Nor do I want to try to build a long-term investment with ephemeral building blocks.

      If its a nice box, well designed, open source, etc, its worth the price. I don't expect to be subsidized by someone else who had a plan to force me into other business with them. I consider myself honest, but I have every expectation they be honest with me. Open source to me means they are willing to be completely honest with me and are holding no surprises. Its all on the table, subject to any verification I feel I need to do. In most cases, I probably won't verify anything at all, but should something not work as I expect, I may have to verify something.

      I wrote another post in another forum regarding my disappointment with a termite contractor. Nowhere did I say I was unhappy about price.. no, I was mostly lamenting on my inability to verify the quality and quantity of termiticide used. I have no problem with paying the man for work done, but when I have a fast one pulled on me, it really pisses me off. Do you think it would minimize the number of "fast ones" a termite contractor could pull on the public if he knew that the product he used could be verified? How would it look in a jury trial should one of his customers, who discovered his house had been "treated" with water asked the company to assume the costs of replacing the termite-damaged lumber in his house? Or, am I just being "anti-capitalist" here by suggesting that someone's work be open for verification?

      I am delighted to see this in Linux, as I fundamentally do not trust Microsoft. Nor do I trust that mechanic who claims he's going to work on my car, but goes to great lengths to make damn sure I can not observe nor verify his work. And I don't trust that termite guy either. ( But if he had given me a sample in my jug, then upon my suspicion something's wrong, I sent it off to my friend, and he found pyrethrins in the proper strength, my opinion of that contractor today would be completely different. )

      --
      "Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." [KJV: I Thessalonians 5:21]

  27. Re:GPL violation? by Eric+Smith · · Score: 4, Informative
    Sure. Buy the unit and make a formal request in writing for the source code to the GPLed software that you have just purchased in binary form. [...] Until you have the binary, you have NO rights to request the source code under the GPL. [...] Have you even bothered to read and understand the GPL?
    Have YOU even bothered to read and understand the GPL?

    If they don't provide the source code with the product, then section 3b of the GPL requires them to provide the source code of the GPL'd software to ANY THIRD PARTY, not just those to whom they have distributed the object code. The written offer of source code only has to be provided to the party to whom they distributed the object code, but that offer must be valid for any third party.

    In fact, technically if someone has made a commercial distribution of object code of GPL'd programs, and not accompanied it with either the source code (section 3a) or the offer to provide the source code (section 3b), they are already in violation of the GPL. For noncommercial distribution, there is a third option (section 3c), but that wouldn't apply here.

  28. Great idea, needs to cost $299 or less. by Animats · · Score: 2, Interesting
    It's a good idea, but about 3x too expensive and physically too big.

    When somebody makes this the size of a small DVD player and sells it for $249 at Wal-Mart, then it will take off.

  29. You cannot watch while you record! by DukeyToo · · Score: 2, Insightful

    From the manual, page 17: "While Telly is recording, Telly's TV window goes blank and you can't watch TV. You can use other Telly features like the music library, photo library or TellyPortal."

    Arg. Sounds like a step back from my VCR.

    Otherwise, the idea is great, the interface looks wonderful. Just a little work needed on the TV watching features and the price.

    --
    Most writers regard truth as their most valuable possession, and therefore are most economical in its use - Mark Twain
  30. Doesn't Pause Live TV by dnadig · · Score: 2, Interesting

    That's the nail in the coffin on this one. I couldn't believe it when I read it. TO skip commercials, you have to record an entire program, then watch it.

    Pricewise it's right about on the money (read some of the other posts making comparisons). It's not as cheap as some used POS Tivo or Replay, but compared to buying the comparable Tivo w/ subscription and a DVD player, it's pretty close.

    The problem is that its not a true home theatre PC - It's clearly not designed to push hi-def displays, doesn't mention anything about pre-tweaked resolutions etc... The folks who are going to buy something like this want the perfect box, and this isn't it, so they end up just building it themselves, and (here come the flames) the near universal consensus is that XP is currently the best way to drive a HTPC - vastly more options for Codecs, tweakers, etc... Continuous stable driver support for all the mpeg2 encoders and high end audio cards, etc...

    You CAN do this with Linux, sure. You CAN do anything with Linux, but sometimes Linux is not actually the best tool for the job.

  31. Re:Price explained $899 by Mr.Sharpy · · Score: 2, Informative

    Some people may find that $899 is quite expensive. But if you look at the chassis, you'll notice it is a coolermaster atc-610 (or 620, don't remember). It's is one of the most expensive desktop case around. If you had to buy it new, you'll have to pay $200+ (at least where I live).

    You can buy the Coolermaster ATC-610 on newegg.com for $148 or if you can live without an aluminum finish (black would probably look better in your AV rack anyway) you can buy the ATC-620 version for just $108. Plus power supply of course. I imagine that if they buy signifigant quantities of these cases, they would get a nice volume discount.

    The $899 pricetag is a really rather high for this kind of hardware (a C3 processor??, please), but I guess you pay for the integration.