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The Introvert Advantage
Most people don't understand what introversion is. I certainly didn't, despite delusions to the contrary. The book begins by explaining what being an "innie" is all about, using a light conversational tone and experiences from the (introverted) author's life. A number of misconceptions are examined and dispelled. For example, introversion is not shyness or a lack of social skills. It's temperament, hard wired in your genetic code, and cannot be altered. To give some flavor to the remarks, examples of introverts from fiction and real life (e.g. Abraham Lincoln, Michael Jordan, Steve Martin) are listed.
The book includes what has to be one of the weakest personality tests ever devised. The goal is to determine if you're an introvert, but it appears that most responsible adults qualify. Some of my clearly extroverted friends got nearly the same scores as introverts. Skip it.
That test aside, the author does an excellent job of reducing the difference between introverts and extroverts to one of energy levels. Extroverts have more energy -- and recharge by being around large groups of other people, while introverts have less, and recharge by being alone or with a very small group of close friends. The very things that energize "outies" will drain "innies," leading to the "party pooper" perception.
One of the strongest parts of the book is a discussion of the physiology of introversion. Differences in the dominance of sympathetic and parasympathetic nervous systems (the "fight or flight" and "throttle down" feedback systems) explain why introverts tend to go through the day at a lower energy level than extroverts. Introverts tend to be less vocal and more "blank", especially when mixed into groups of active extroverts.
The discussion of brain chemistry is equally fascinating: introverts use different neurochemicals for memory, which is why it can take some time (and perhaps REM sleep) for information to fully settle and process. Hence the tendency for great ideas to occur during the morning shower. The chemical mix also explains why the sorts of events that stimulate extroverts can quickly over-stimulate and wear out introverts.
Dealing with Extroverts The second part of the book is about dealing with significant others, children, and co-workers. The first chapter has sections on different relationship pairings (introvert male with extrovert female, introvert female with extrovert male, introvert with introvert). These are insightful and, frankly, would have saved me some grief had I read them a number of years ago. The author gives specific tips for improving communication and understanding in each situation.The chapter on parenting gives tips on identifying introverted children and coping with them. This will be more useful for an extroverted parent, who perhaps doesn't understand why sitting quietly and reading has such a strong appeal. The chapter also has tips for introverted parents with extroverted kids, who need a little more outward show than the parents are perhaps used to giving.
A section on socializing and small talk is in this section, but such things have been covered more extensively in books on overcoming shyness.
Introverts and extroverts often rub up against one another in the workplace. In the last chapter in this section, the author raises a number of issues and suggests ways to cope with them. For example, introverts tend to immerse themselves in a particular project, and like to work without interruption for extended periods. Intrusions disrupt concentration, and regaining it takes time and energy. Extroverts enjoy the occasional interruption, because it gives them an energizing break and avoids monotony. Both sides expect the other to feel the same way, so extroverts interrupt others with quick questions (which annoys the introvert), and introverts try to avoid interrupting others (which makes extroverts see introverts as aloof). The chapter also discusses participation in meetings, giving presentations, and just dealing with people who "interface" differently.
There are other books on relationships, parenting, and on dealing effectively with others in the workplace. This is not the book that puts all others to shame, but if you're an introvert it covers the essentials.
Living in an Extroverted World The last part of the book discusses strategies for living in a world dominated by extroverts. How to manage your time, schedule your life in a way that won't cause overstimulation, how to re-energize through aromatherapy. There is some good advice here, but nothing really new or insightful.The author points out that 75% of people are extroverts, and suggests that might explain why the quick-thinking life of the party is idealized. Introverts often have self-esteem problems because they can't be what most of the world wants them to be. The point of this book is to teach introverts why they are the way they are, to show them which aspects of their personality are immutable and which can be changed, and most of all to show that that there is nothing about introversion that requires making excuses.
Much of the value of this book is in the first third, where the psychology and physiology of introversion are treated as an integral whole. Discovering that personality quirks and the desire to ask "how long are we planning to stay at the party" are normal and expected behaviors is liberating. (I'll be launching the Introvert Liberation Front shortly.) The later sections range from "just okay" to very good, but even if you've seen such before it's worthwhile to get a different perspective. Other books -- many of which are listed in the bibliography -- have covered these topics with greater depth or breadth, but the focus on looking at life from an introvert's perspective separates this from most of them.
I highly recommend this book to introverts or to extroverts with an introvert in their life. (If you work in high tech, you're probably one or the other.)
You can purchase The Introvert Advantage: How to Thrive in an Extrovert World from bn.com. There is also a web site for the book, with merchandise, downloadable pamphlets, and discussion forums. Slashdot welcomes readers' book reviews -- to see your own review here, read the book review guidelines, then visit the submission page.
But I am a pervert. Is there a good book about that for me?
Q: How can you tell an extroverted computer geek from an introverted computer geek?
A: The introverted computer geek will look at his shoes while he talks to you. The extroverted computer geek will look at your shoes while he talks to you.
Oh, you're not stuck, you're just unable to let go of the onion rings.
Extroverts think out loud while an introvert does it internally. Rather like the difference between an exoskeleton and an endoskeleton: same basic functionality, but the former is better off steamed with some garlic butter and a nice chilled wine.
I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate.
Dr. Laney's book will help millions of introverts understand why they are misunderstood...
I'm pretty sure my fascination with Slashdot contributes to this.
Where does this guy work? :)
If that ever happens around here, the extrovert usually goes "Eeeeeew", and I just shrug it off anyway and go back to reading Slashdot.
Sounds like a good alternative book for parents. Beats them buying a bunch of "What's Wrong with my Teenage Son" books or mistaking introversion for depression, when trying to deal with something they have trouble understanding. Alex.
First of all I think each introvert process a different degree of introversion. I consider myself 65-70% introverted--depending on the situation.
With this degree of being introverted, I found this book help me reach a deeper understanding of myself. For example, of why I tend to get deeply involved in a subject or get zoned out when I concentrate on something. From that understanding I learn how to manage myself better in relations to others.
Setting several useful tips aside, I believe the understanding alone that I gained from this book give me a deeper self actualization, which in the process helps me see my own strengths and weaknesses. Seeing one's own strengths and weaknesses can certainly enable one to become fuller and lead a richer life.
I very much enjoy reading this book. In a way I felt like reading about myself even though I don't agree 100% with all the characteristics of an introvert as described in the book.
All in all I still recommend it as a very good read, eps. for all of us introverts
There is no god
Since most people are stupid, and I don't like to waste my time, does that make me an introvert? Just because I don't want to chit-chat about Survivor or American Idol?
Vote Quimby!
I was ready to post some really witty esoteric apropos joke, but I think I'll just keep it to myself.
I find a few quarts of ale energize me, and make me the most charming geek in the world.
I just posted an anti-introvert post on Slashdot, where I spend hours on weekly.
In trying to understand my own psyche i've been doing alot of reasearch on the net.. I am quite certain that myers-briggs/jung typologies are pretty much dead on.. i've had so many 'aha' epiphany moments reading about my personality type (intj), it's made my work life, personal life, and everything in between so much better. Having an understanding of your strengths and weaknesses is definately a good thing, especially in this day and age. Learning to exploit yourself, is almost as good as exploiting others ;)
http://www.humanmetrics.com has a great (free) typology test, but you have to remember to be dead honest with yourself when answering the questions (take your time!) once you have your personality type, the net makes it easy to 'find who you are'.
----------------------------
Esobofh - Currently drinking fresh mango juice.
A: His shoes look at you while he is talking.
Wow, thanks for that link to bn.com -- I thought maybe I'd have needed to see daylight and maybe have to interact with someone at the cash register in order to buy the book.
"A number of misconceptions are examined and dispelled. For example, introversion is not shyness or a lack of social skills."
As a shy extrovert, I can attest to this.
This sig wasn't worth reading, was it.
Based on: "Dealing with Extroverts The second part of the book is about dealing with significant others, children, and co-workers. The first chapter has sections on different relationship pairings (introvert male with extrovert female, introvert female with extrovert male, introvert with introvert)."
If you are an opinionated introvert try to CHOOSE a significant other WHO IS also an introvert or at least have a backbone.
. . . until I got to the bit about aromatheraphy. Plueeezzzz
Seriously, I wonder if this book looks at the introvert/extrovert dichotomy as too absolute. I am generally an introverted person (I do, after all, read Slashdot!). However, in some social situations I behave more like an extravert (for example: the quick questions thing mentioned in the review). Pop psychology is perhaps more interesting if everyone fits neatly into one box or the other, but I suspect that reality is much more complex.
That said, this sounds like an interesting read.
"The dinosaurs died because they didn't have a space program." - Niven
Physiology Smysiology.
I can wrap up my introversion a lot simpler than blaming it on a physiological make up. I have to force myself to take an interest in the people around me.
It has taken me years to realize that other people are actually interesting and may actually be fun to talk to. I have finally learned to rememer their names and activities in their lives. I want to know how things turn out and what is going on. I stopped limiting my personal interest to characters in a novel even though I can interact with book based personalities on my own time.
If you remember something that happened in a person's life, call them and ask them how things went! You like when people take an interest in your life and they will also. Develop an interest in the world around you and not one specific subject. Learn how to engage in conversation and not small talk. Small talk is HARD!!! Conversation is natural and free flowing.
Have fun with people and your life will be more interesting.
--Keith
Introverts often have self-esteem problems because they can't be what most of the world wants them to be.
In my experience low self esteem often occurs because someone cant be what they think the rest of the world wants them to be. Personally I always find this strange because I'm pretty sure the rest of world does not give a shit about me so I dont really care what the world thinks anyway.
The point of this book is to teach introverts why they are the way they are, to show them which aspects of their personality are immutable and which can be changed, and most of all to show that that there is nothing about introversion that requires making excuses.
Is personality, or certain personality traits immutable? I would have thought that with the right stimulation it would be highly mutable. Thats ignoring the fact that we are intelligent enought to recognise our own patterns of behaviour and can suppress our natural instincts if we make that choice.
Do not try to read the dupe, thats impossible. Instead, only try to realize the truth
What truth?
There is no dupe
I'd buy a copy at the bookstore, but then I'd have to go outside.
...right about here:
. It's temperament, hard wired in your genetic code, and cannot be altered.
That's taking determinism a bit too far, I think. Genetic, perhaps -- but unalterable? Personality is not as incorrigible as that. There's no reason to assume that introversion is a defect or that it must be reversed, but claiming that it's inherently unalterable is just absurd.
Introverts need to learn a little extroversion just to get along in life. Human beings are social creatures, and generally speaking, two heads are always better than one when solving problems. One doesn't need to make a lifestyle out of it, but IMO the sooner an introvert learns some of the basic "tricks" of reaching out to others, the better.
The whole idea of splitting people into categories like this is really stupid. Hopefully, 100 years from now people will recognize that this is as ridiculous as phrenology (i.e. measuring bumps on your head to determine personality traits) is recognized to be today.
All is Number -Pythagoras.
"Introverts often have self-esteem problems because they can't be what most of the world wants them to be. "
I'm introverted and I don't have any self esteem problems and it has nothing to do with what the world wants. I'm introverted because I have found that if people find out that I know how to fix problems (caused by the incompetent extraverts that became extraverts because they had to frequently "reach out" to people that knew how to fix stuff), then they latch deeper into my skin than an alabama tick.
If I'm intoverted, it's because I want them to learn how to do their fucking job and not bother me with every petty problem that can be solved with about 2 minutes of searching. I withdraw as a defensive measure. The last time I said "Gee, that's an easy fix" was almost 3 years ago. Now I'm being rode like a $3 hooker and it's payday.
-B
None of this is possible while sitting in front of a computer, being introverted. If you tell yourself you hate other people anyway and would rather be alone, that's an enabling crock of shit. Humans are designed to be around other humans.
P.S. LAN parties do not count as socialization.
Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
I took a class on personality development and we studied all the 'great' minds who have put forward theories on how we get the way we are. Froyd, Skinner, Jung, etc.
I will now summarize for you what every one of them came up with.
"This is what happened to me when I grew up. I think this is what basically happens to everyone when they grow up."
I just saved you a semester of hard work.
.
It's hard to believe that's how Micronians are made. Why don't we see it right now by having you both kiss one another?
There used to be a much better Perl-based test out there based on the book, Please Understand Me by David Kiersey and Marilyn Bates, but I found this test out there. (You can go to Kiersey's self-promotional site too, but it looks like they use some form of communist registration/info-gathering technique before they let you take the test.)
Introversion/Extraversion is simply one of many factors - in this organizational scheme, Jungian personality types adapted by Isabel Briggs Myers.
Depends if you're at the local coffee bar or curled up under the covers.
I drank what? -- Socrates
If you want to learn more about basic psychology for nerds, study the Meyer-Briggs Type Indicator. (MBTI for short.) lots of links (dutch and english)
This book seems to be based on part of their work.
Caring for Your Introvert
I'm an introvert and I like what the author says about needing to recharge after a few hours of socializing. I find long stretches (ie 6 hours straight) of conversation totally exhausting... I wish I didn't, but that appears to be the way I'm built.
I disagree with all the 'more intelligent', etc. stuff, but maybe some of you will find the article interesting at least...
The whole idea of splitting people into categories like this is really stupid /. discussion and watch the two switch categories. As we are amply demonstrating herein. Then again, I would say that the BSD is dead guy is likely an extrovert, if not a robot.
Obviously you're entitled to your opinion, but people do fit into categories. Slobs vs neat freaks, People who go home and watch E! true hollywood story, and those who would rather learn something worthwhile.
Phrenology is based on physical characteristics determining your degree of mongrelism. The degree of a persons introversion is determined by observation of that persons actions/reactions. The scientific method is applied in the latter, whereas the former is rightly qualified as garbage.
I will agree though that it's not quite clean cut on this issue. Put an Extrovert and an introvert in a
"Inattention makes clowns of us all" -Bean
I consider myself more of an introvert than an extrovert (being alone recharges me, I usually only consider "deep" relationships to be my friends, though I'm changing that), and I can say that drugs have definitely opened doors in my mind. I'm not talking about psychedelics or hallucinatory drugs.
Simple marijuana has really opened up my mind in so many ways, helping me realize so many things about myself and about the world. When I'm stoned, I get excited and every little detail about the world is totally fascinating and amazing and I understand it on a totally new level. I agree with you, I don't think extroverts experience it the same way; they seem to have a totally different experience from weed.
But I don't really understand the details of this. Maybe you can tell me more about the differences between an extrovert and an introvert on drugs.
So what is a "function"? Everyone has four functions that we use: Two information generating functions, and two decision making functions.
The informations gathering functions are called "sensing" and "intuition" respectively, and the decision making functions are called "feeling" and "thinking"
Sensing is about the here and now, and what has happened before. Intuition is about seeing patterns and multiple developments developing from a situation: Dreaming and imagination. Feeling is about making decisions based upon peoples reactions and hunches about this (empathy). Thinking is about making decisions on well defined thoughts logically strung together and disregard the fluffy stuff.
However as each person grows into and adult, she chooses to rely on a pairing of one of the information gathering functions and one of the decision making functions, and more or less disregard the two others. She often has a problem understanding that other people have chosen other pairings and this can lead to a lot of misunderstanding.
Anyway to get back top the discussion on introversion: When you have your two functions you rely on (as an example thinking and intuition), if the one that dominates is directed inwards, you're an introvert. Roughly half of all Americans are introverts.
Hackers and programmers come in all types, though e.g. INTJ is often associated with programmers. INTJ is a person who uses intuition as her dominant function directed inwards, and thinking (directed outwards) for decision making.
This is a large and complex (well basically a bit unstructured) subject and I fully expect a number of posters to point out errors in the above text :-)
who tests as ENFP (Extrovert intuitive feeler)
Yesterday I read in The Atlantic. (I find the timing of finding that and then this book review interesting...)
It was like seeing myself fully explained for the first time. If you're not interested in buying the book, the article will probably do just as well.
I find it interesting how similar some of the symptoms match up between what the reviewer is quoting and some popular "identifiers" of Attention Deficit Disorder. I was recently (almost) diagnosed with ADD, and found the whole experience to be rather ... lacking substance. There were a lot of maybe's, and could mean's throughout the process, but this review brings to light a good point: how often are depression, anxiety, and ADD mis-diagnosed due to an incorrect interpretation of a person's personality type?
Most notably, the points about immersion into a project, or the need to break up what you're working on to feel comfortable; both are representative (supposedly) of ADD and ADHD symptoms, respectively. My tendency to withdraw, have a smaller group of friends, zone out (or into) a project were all signs that my physician used to attempt to give me a diagnosis of ADD.
Furthermore, I personally have a lot of problems with ADD and ADHD, in that I feel it is diagnosed too often, or for the wrong reasons. Perhaps this book and the study it represents would shed some light on cases where the stock "problem teen" issues do not fall under the depression/ADD cookie cutter mold.
backslapping, guffawing, shallow frat boy yahoos
LOL, although I'm sure 75% of the population fits that description that's not generally what defines The Extrovert. Those frats are just people who are trying to make their lives better at the expense of other people!
The Extrovert - in his natural habitat - is just someone who really gets off on what we geeks call Face Time. Then there is the thin line towards the behaviour of pathological extroverts, who are just masked introverts that crave for other people's attention, probably because they don't have an internal judgement system so they need constant affirmation and judgement from external sources.
(And for that to happen they, like a baby, need to cry out every little pseudo-thought to the world so they can constantly receive feedback information whether or not they're still operating within the socially acceptable range. Though the irconical thing in our society is, the louder you are, the more likely are other people to accept your rambling as valid.
In the end that means that The Patho-Extrovert's quest to get reliable affirmation by being intrusively communicative is nothing but an illusion that provides positive feedback loops for aggressive behaviour.)
I read a book on generally the same topic a while back called: Why Should Extroverts Make All the Money?: Networking Made Easy for the Introvert by Frederica, Ph.D. Balzano.
The main lesson I got out of reading this book was how to deal with extroverted management. I code all day long and after reading this book I realised that much of the friction between my supervisors and I was that they simply didn't know what I did all day long! The book suggested frequently bumping into your supervisor and letting them know how you are doing and how your work is going.
Introverts usually take a task or a problem and mull over it in their mind for long periods of time. They don't feel the need to let their manager know how it's going. Instead, they'd rather just let their manager know when they are done. This inclination doesn't cut it with extroverted managers.
Anyway, my relationships with supervisors have dramtically changed for the better since I started frequently letting them know how things are going...
I highly recommend reading the book I mentioned. Get it from your local library though.... I don't think I liked it so much that I'd recommend buying it, however. It's just good for a couple of pointers.
because I'd be interested to see the support for your hypothesis
There are places where the networks are not touching,and there are places where they are-Boeing's Lori Gunter
and take some anti-anxiety pills
Introversion != Social Anxiety
The former is, as described in the article, a temperment issue. Introverts tend to enjoy being alone or with a few close friends. Extroverts tend to find this boring. Extroverts tend to enjoy interacting with large groups of strangers. Introverts tend to find this tiresome.
Social anxiety is a paralyzing fear of social interaction caused by brain chemistry. People with SA are usually unhappy because they want social interaction but can't handle it, while introverts can handle social interaction but don't want to.
A legparnasom tele van angolnaval.
I agree with the latter, but not the former. Not sure if you're trying to be funny. Some may choose to "act" one way or the other, but for some people it's quite painful to "act" extroverted. I can't stand smalltalk and trying to mingle with strangers, it's so freakin' boring. Sometimes I actually get pleasure out of sitting quietly and thinking about solving problems, or philosophy, or something like that. That ain't by choice.
it's not a choice.
I'm an introvert. people bore me. I'd much rather sit here and work on my code instead of talk to other people about what I'm doing. I get energy from thinking about what I'm doing and from within myself. I don't NEED other people to energize me. I feel that this is a superior way to live, in fact, because I've been very alone before and I survived it. An extrovert would go stir-crazy and do things that might not be the best for them just to avoid being alone. Not needing others, but only having them in your life when you want them in it, helps prevent being taken advantage of by people who prey on others.
Oh, and if you're wondering, I'm getting married in November to another introvert, so it's not impossible for dregs like us to have what the holy extroverts have.
Introvert/extrovert is a current state of mind, not some sort of destiny.
It is entirely possible to act like an "introvert" one day (or whichever timeslice you choose) and an "extrovert" the next.
It's all about finding the appropriate tactic to fit the current situation.
Here's the deal, all you hard-core introvert-types - social skill are like any other skills - they are LEARNED. Some people have an easier time with the learning process than others, and if you are one of those who have a hard time with it, well son, the only way to get to Carnegie Hall is to practice, practice, practice.
But to just hang an "introvert" label on yourself and consider it done - that's just avoidance.
DG
Want to learn about race cars? Read my Book
I made the transition from a solid INFP to a solid ENFP in high school... I went through a lot of personal pain and suffering to get there, but the change happened (not on purpose). I'd have to say its sort of wired in, but it is also like a habit - like a hologram of behavior... you have to really transform yourself to change. I imagine an extrovert could be tortured into an introvert, and visa versa.
meh
Well.. I am no expert, but from what I have read on the net, and through various texts, extroverts tend to have linear thought processes, they go from one thought to an evolution of that same thought - introverts can complelely change their thinking course, and be onto something completely different before their extrovert counterparts. Extroverts rely on other people to change their thoughts, introverts change on their own.
Powered by the influence of drugs, this process is amazingly intensive - when you get the 'energy' that introverts are 'said to lack internally' it's amazing what your brain does with it. I do not in anyway want to say that drugs are good.. drugs are bad(tm) and can lead to seriously bad things. But, there is a reason why shamans, and medicine man explored there use.. to an introvert it's a supply of mental energy that only pushes further the capabilities of your brain (when used correctly, i.e. not abused). I recently tried 'e' - in a group of people I was the only introvert, everyone was happy and dancing and engaging in socialties.. I was very happy/warm/social, and enjoyed talking to people, but I noticed the sunrise coming up, and couldn't take myself away from it.. seing the light enter the atmosphere from behind mountains, and the ensuing release of heat, moisture and energy fueling cloud formations in the upper atmosphere was such a powerful experience.. I haven't tried e since.. but some seriously synaptic doors have changed in my brain.. it definately altered the way I percieve things through the creation of new pathways (this is my interpretation i have no idea if this is what genuinely occured) - but since that day.. seeing the sunrise has become an experience I can only describe as spiritual (I am not religious in any way) an event that alot of humans cannot enjoy deeply (I think everyone can appreciate the asthetic beauty), because they don't understand the underlying processes and how complicated and deeply embedded every earthly process is. This brings me to a true addiction I have.. it has been proven recently that learning releases endorphens in a similar way as drugs, albeit in smaller amounts, I have to admit I am hopelessly addicted to learning and try to assimilate any piece of knowledge/text/info that comes my way.. from what I have read, this is built into my personality type - now armed with this information, I am trying to steer my knowledge reception so that I don't waste my time learning (seemingly) useless things.
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Esobofh - Currently drinking fresh mango juice.
Also I think this book might be a bit of a placebo for those who are suffering from depression or social anxiety. Not so healthy.
_nfotxn
If you'll forgive me, that sounds like something an extrovert would say. I'm a very strongly expressed introvert according to several typing schemes. However, I'm not shy in the least. I speak publicly on a regular basis, attend events and discuss my work with groups of people and have even been called charming from time to time.
But there is no doubt that I find any time that I do not spend alone to be exhausting to some extent or another. I can't sustain intense "people activity" for more than a few days before I start to lose the amiable charm and exchange it for very terse grumpiness or formal pedantry.
I don't care to be around other people all that much. Not that I dislike them or want to avoid them... but in general, people (apart from my significant other and perhaps one or two friends) don't contribute much to my moods.
But one of the things most introverts are familiar with are the endless stream of well-meaning people trying to get you "out and about" and "with people" and "living life" in some sort of party atmosphere because they're sure you're unhappy developing film for hours on end or hiking alone through wooded areas. I can't tell you how many times I've been told "I'd go crazy if I spent as much time alone as you!"
And then of course you try to explain that you are an introvert and you get (more or less like you just said): "Bah! It's all nonsense. You just don't know how fun life can be! Come to this dinner party tonight and you'll have a great time, I promise!"
So you go, you smile, you talk, and you gain nothing from it and feel quite exhausted by the end of the night, longing to get back to your darkroom... And of course as you leave, your well-meaning friend says "See, now, wasn't that fun!? You made quite a splash. And I hear you've been invited to..."
It's a fundamental disconnect that people don't understand unless they've felt it. When most people are having fun, my mind and indeed my heart are elsewhere. Conversely, when I'm having fun, people aren't generally around. If they are, I can rarely share my joy because they tend to think (no matter how I try to explain it) that I must be depressed if I can find such quiet, plodding, un-chatty things to be any fun.
STOP . AMERICA . NOW
Exactly, and thats why I choose to be an introvert. I dont see how its chemistry of the brain if I literally made a choice one day to become an introvert because I was tired of being an extrovert.
I don't think that you chose to change from extrovert to introvert so much as you chose to stop acting like an extrovert. A true extrovert wouldn't be capable of not focusing on people because they need to do so in order to recharge their mental energy. A true introvert knows that they need to be alone, and a smart introvert knows the hallmarks of extroversion, so that you can fake it when need be, and they also know the difference between themselves and others much more than an extrovert does - extros think everyone's like them in some way.
You were faking it - that's natural, I did it too, but I grew to accept myself, so I gave up on faking my personality type.
I disagree - Many introverts see conversation as a medium for exchanging information. When a "geek" explains what he/she knows about a current topic, they are doing several things:
Most introverts could care less about the attention, (we'll skip the obligatory Maslow's Hierarchy comment) and will often keep silent regarding a topic to avoid drawing attention to themselves. Indeed, many introverts find that "being clever" is the best way to attract the ire of those around them. Many introverts find conversation to be of less interest unless the energy expended to talk to a person garners something in return... like new information or trivia. (Introverted conversations often start "Did you know that....".)
Let's remember that there are reasons to have a conversation that don't involve "social connections" of the extroverted ilk. Introverts communicate differently and for different reasons.
it tires me to be around them, so I need to schedule "alone-time" to recharge. On the other hand, my wife is solidly extroverted, so she needs to have "socialization-time" scheduled.
Yeah, nowadays it's so important that you lead a clean, counseled, thoroughly scheduled life!
So what to do with the stereotype if you find out that you actually need to schedule both social- and alone-time in order to recharge?
I bet the counselor wouldn't find that a very acceptable result, and likely wouldn't rest before having successfully talked her customer into matching a stereotype group that neatly fits into her book.
Don't get me wrong - I don't want to rant against counseling (but I do anyway). It just seems that nowadays everyone's life must be planned and optimized by "experts", that sometimes really ticks me off. As if people are generally unable to find out about their own feelings without being constantly helped and directed.
Interesting. I wonder how common it is for introverts to dislike "people in general". Personally, I tend to dislike people when they are in groups. Group-think and group-speak are not my cup of tea. I find that extroverts are somewhat more likely to respond as a group might even when they are alone. Pretty weird stuff.
Quite an experience to live in fear, isn't it? That's what it is to be a slave.
It's dangerous to 'lump' people and claim introversion is a genetic trait. It's like claiming sexual preference never is, or always is.
Some people have LEARED to become introverts when they're naturally extroverted. They get comfortable with where they are, but that doesn't mean they're happy with it.
I'm an excellent example of that. Getting through college was tough, I had a long drive and some pretty demanding teachers. When I finished I was living infront of the computer. I didn't remember another way of being. Comfortable, but unhappy. Now I'm forcing myself to go out again, and though not as comfortable as I used to be (I was previously Mr. 'I want to be the center of attention') I'm a lot happier.
Apparent introversion could also be from a lack of acceptable choices. Ex, you're an extroverted Jew, but you live in a town full of extroverted Nazis. They may invite you to the party, but you probably don't want to go...
I don't remember anything emotionally painful, being bullied, etc. but I do remember some relatives saying 'Gee, why do you ask so many questions?' Or 'You don't have to give me the whole encyclopedia entry' - when you answered a question. These can be painful I suppose, though I don't remember feeling bad - I remember thinking that the people who said these things were stupid.
I've been swashdotted -- Elmer Fudd
How utterly true.
...don't watch much television, because it's stupid, boring, and annoying, and the commercials drive me crazy. I like anime, so the pay channels sometimes attract me, and I like movies, so the movie channels aren't bad, but usually I prefer something a little more active, like a good game. ...don't pay any attention to professional sports because, really, what's so interesting about gigantic musclebound thugs slamming into one another? Or scratching their nuts and throwing a ball around? It's BORING. Maybe if a kickboxing match was on, I dunno. I always kinda respected those guys, they were tough as nails. But, they don't put that stuff on much anymore. ...don't pay any attention to right-wing nutcases like uber-republican Rush Limbaugh. Once you get past the initial humorous part ("did he just say that? He's kidding, right?") you realize he's serious and it just seems sad. ...don't care whether I get laid or not, or whether I'm surrounded by people, because I can amuse myself most of the time with a book or a video game. Or, my BSD laptop and some coding.
;)
I was tortured and abused throughout my childhood by most of the other kids, and in my twenties when I went back to college (after a stint in the Marine Corps to toughen up and not get picked on anymore) I was older than the other kids and an outsider for a whole new set of reasons. Most of my life, all I wanted was to be left alone with my books, and I had to put up with all kinds of garbage from almost everyone. It wasn't until I was thirty years old and moved upstate, taking a government job (where most of the people are older and more settled) that I finally found a group of people (fellow programmers, of course) who just accepted me as-is, with a minimum of hassle. Of course, they're all pretty introverted too, so it all works out. I've got a nice, quiet working environment with really cool, quiet, hands-off coworkers, and I'm finally happy after all these years.
Outside of work, of course, I'm a hermit.
Because, after all, what would I do around most people? Look at it from my perspective:
I:
So, what the heck would I talk about with people? All their favorite conversational topics are non-starters with me (sex, right-wing politics, sports, television). I talk about my work and their eyes glaze over. I mention anime and they give me this "yeah, ok, great" look. As if their sitcoms were adult fare... We have nothing in common.
I figure, if I don't find a similarly antisocial girl who has the same interests by the time I'm 40, I'm just not going to reproduce. Maybe one day I'll clone myself, just for the techie bragging rights, but probably not.
Farewell! It's been a fine buncha years!
Wow! The life I'm living isn't "just-right" because I'm not outgoing like everyone else?
I've been considered "shy" all my life. My father is an introvert, and the rest of my family is highly extroverted. Maybe it is genetic. Maybe it's the way I was raised (only child for many years, no kids in my neighborhood). I've survived, and done pretty well for myself. I'm getting married soon, I have a good job, and I have friends - what's missing?
I watch my outgoing friends make fools of themselves and piss people off, without ever giving a single thought to their words or actions. I know that these outgoing people are just as insecure as the rest of us, and use the stupid jokes and fast talking to hide their fears.
Because introverts are "different", there must be something wrong with us. We don't conform to this ideal that pop psychologists have devised, just so they can write books to change us or to "help us cope" with our differences. Just walk through the self-help section of any bookstore, and there's a book to solve any problem. Then, look at all the people in that section. It seems that no one stands up to that ideal. We all have insecurities, fears, addictions, and problems for which we need to have an explanation or excuse.
"Show me on the doll where the bad man touched you."
The everything2 node for introvert has some interesting information and mentions Carl Jung, who invented this type of classification.
...but the perverts have the most fun with them.
Sorry introverts.
I am very small, utmostly microscopic.
I like your analogy. I have two cats. They are quiet, choosey, indifferent, and independent. They are playful and boisterous when they want to be. They sometimes want companionship and there are times they just want to be left alone. They do not seek my approval; if anything, they could care less what I think unless I think its time to feed them.
I won't start a flame war by expounding on the dogs and extroverts part of your analogy but it sure fits.
They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither safety nor liberty.
Ben
So, what the heck would I talk about with people? All their favorite conversational topics are non-starters with me (sex, right-wing politics, sports, television). I talk about my work and their eyes glaze over. I mention anime and they give me this "yeah, ok, great" look. As if their sitcoms were adult fare... We have nothing in common.
I hear this a lot from nerds, and the answer often surprises them. Ask questions. If someone really wants to hear about your job or you hobbies, they'll ask. If they don't ask, don't tell them. Instead, ask them what they do, and what their hobbies are. You can have hours and hours of conversation simply by asking a series of questions. For example... "Have you taken any vacations recently?" will usually yield a positive response... then you can ask them where they went, what was it like. It may not be interesting, but it chances are it will be entertaining and you'll learn something. And people love talking about themselves. Give it a shot.
I found this article by Jonatham Rauch in The Atlantic to be a big "aha" for me.
My name is Khendron, and... I am an introvert <applause>
Life is like a web application. Sometime you need cookies just to get by.
Introversion vs. extroversion is not a matter of verbal abilities. In my opinion, it's more a matter of one lives in a world of ideas, while the other lives in a world of people. Online use of verbal skills to play with complex ideas is thus exactly the kind of thing an introvert would do, whereas the extrovert would become bored with the "cold dry flat text" of a board like Slashdot and either go to something more interactive like IRC where he can feel like he's interacting with other people, or go do something with his friends.
Send mail here if you want to reach me.
The majority of conversations that I encounter throughout the day are absolutely irredeemable, frivolous, and reek of an utter failure to see the seriousness of life.
Why should I want to reinforce this behavior?
I have a passion for three things:
1) Intelligent and passionate conversation about: epistemology, metaphysics, ethics, human rights, institutionalized oppression, abuse of government power, consumerism, corporatism, and unseating the social, political, and economic elite.
2) Creating a passion in others to see and speak out about the great injustice in this life.
3) Helping those who are oppressed and downtrodden, whether in their middle class lives, or from through the cracks of society, and empowering them -- making them to realize that they matter -- that they are loved as brothers and sisters, and that they can make a difference; believe that we will overcome.
- I do not care whether James' new girlfriend is hot. I will not reinforce this behavior.
- I do not care what happened on Friends last night. I will not reinforce this behavior.
- I do not care who the Bachelor picked. I will not reinforce this behavior.
- I do not want to get hopped up on alcohol and make it out what a 'stud' I am at the club tonight in order to get a member of the opposite sex into bed for a night. I will not reinforce this behavior.
- I do not think that your racist, sexist, immature jokes are humorous. I will not reinforce this behavior.
.sig Realistic fines for copyright in
And people love talking about themselves.
This I was just trying to write a reply to about how much I as an introvert hate talking about myself. Then I realised what a paradox such a statement would have been. Oh well...
It has nothing to do with brain chemistry.
Its a choice, people make a choice to be introverted or extroverted.
You probably believe that homosexuality is ALSO a choice.
Believe me, introverts are the minority and they often suffer pretty heavily from it. Throughout youth and young adult-hood, the mode of social gatherings is a complete mystery to them.
It's difficult to understand why everyone is having so much fun at a party EXCEPT you. You try hard to act like your having fun, but you can't fake it to yourself. If it was a choice don't you think we would choose NOT to suffer.
Sometime when your not thouroughly satisified that you know everything, you may actually want to do some reading on psychology. You'll find that people do scientific research and have good proof for why some behaviors and characteristics seem based on "nature" and others are based more on "nurture".
Sometimes choice enters the equation, but most often we are almost complete products of our environment or ourselves. The "choices" we make are often made for us long before we ever ponder the question. Typically, when things aren't working out right, you know you actually overcame your biology and "chose" something against your nature.
For example, right now I'm assuming that you didn't "choose" to be an ignorant, arrogant ass-hole. Something in your nature or upbringing led you to this point. You can overcome the ignorance through LISTENING and READING beyond your knowledge. However, you may indeed ALWAYS be an ass-hole!!!!
-------- -------- Support Wesley Clark for president!!!
If you want to mod this flame then please flame it REAL good :) This entire thread needs to get buried.
I don't mean the following to sound harsh, but this behavior is typical of introverts.
I don't mean the following to sound harsh, cause extroverts are good and righteous people, but this behavior is so typical of these... introverts.
The reason it annoys people is because you're not being extroverted, you're just seeking attention. An extrovert enjoys making *social* connections to people. You're not connecting with people; you're just hoping they will notice you as a substitute for a true connection.
The reason it annoys people is because you're not being extroverts, you can never be elite, you're just seeking attention, something extroverts don't need to do, it's beneath an extrovert. An extrovert enjoys making *social* connections to people, something the introvert can't understand, cause an introvert neither enjoys talking nor appreciates what social connections are. Hell if they know what being *social* is all about. You're not really connecting with people, that's an illusion; you're just hoping they will notice you, only extroverts are gifted with true connection.
A similar thing that introverts due (and geeks are notorious for) is replacing true conversation with being a walking encyclopia. Someone talks about the weather, and the geek goes on to explain strato cumulous clouds. It's not a conversation, it's a plea for attention. "Aren't I clever that I understand clouds".
And quite ironically, a plea for attention and a plea for conversation are not unsimilar. Quite often, drawing attention is one way of drawing conversation. What do you think talking about the weather is? LMAO. It's no better an excuse than talking about strato clouds. Talking about the weather really "connect" you to someone? Or does it open the door for more words?
"Aren't I clever that I understand clouds? I hope you don't mind that I feel insecure. We live with so many billions of people on the world and sometimes it seems like some of us have forgotten how to understand each other. Some people are really good at talking. I have to use an excuse to start a conversation. Just trying to let you know what mood I'm in, how I talk, maybe get an idea of how I see things. I'd really like to talk to you and get to know who you are though. How do you see those clouds? Do they look like elephants to you or something else?"
"Last one in is a rotten goblin!" - Kepp
I wonder how much of this is influenced by the environment. For example, in Europe, towns are convenient for pedestrians. Buildings are close together, roads are narrow, parks and trains are common, and people can meet eachother on the street. Socializing is convenient there, so Europeans know there will be plenty of good social events. In USA, buildings are far apart, lawns are big, roads are wide and parks and trains are seldom. Thus pedestrians are trapped; you need a car to get around. Socializing is inconvenient here, so Americans look forward to when they can get home and do their own thing. If either group spends all their time on their own continent, they may come to think that their lifestyle is the only one.
I could fit into either description. For example, I can plow through a thick book in a few days and get annoyed when anyone interrupts me, but when I went to an anime convention last weekend I avoided anything I could do at home (watch anime, play games) and spent as much time as possible at social events, such as the opening ceremonies, cosplay runway, production panel, and Q&A. At that con, I felt energized by meeting people, and anxious outside of group events. I spend most of my free time alone on the web, but I often read about socially-reinforcing things like New-Urbanist neighbourhoods, and look forward to visiting one. I suspect most people have a mix of introvert and extrovert preferences, and I'd like to read about the environmental factors that cause each.
my housemate is a psychologist. She says: No one is a hundred percent introvert or extrovert. You can only look at your predominant moods. If you are exactly 50% then you are another kind of anomoly.
Pop psychology tries to make false dichotomies because it is easier for lay people to understand opposites. Unfortunately no single individual is 100% introvert or 100% extrovert. Most people are around +-25% of 50%.
I don't really understand the fascination with these topics. I mean, most people don't worry about the reproductive life of indigenous arctic wildlife, but they care about what a pshychologist might diagnose them as? I think Orwell warned against this kind of self-discovery through esoteric scientifc language. Why? Because you don't really can't understand yourself in those terms, you simply limit yourself to those limited concepts.
here
I figure, if I don't find a similarly antisocial girl who has the same interests by the time I'm 40, I'm just not going to reproduce. Maybe one day I'll clone myself, just for the techie bragging rights, but probably not. ;)
The great achievement of equality of the sexes was for women to make a living and control their fertility, thus allow them to have more control over their own lives. While men can live independant financial lives, we are still slaves when it comes to reproduciton. Until we can reproduce as single men we will be tied to women if we want to reproduce.
I'm not saying women are bad or that relationships are bad (I've been with my partner for 14 years) but we need to have the choice. This doesn't have to come from technological advances, social advances such better surrogacy laws would work just as well.