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Cell Phones on Commercial Flights by 2006?
NetCurl writes "I heard the news on MPR's Marketplace today. Apparently the non-profit Radio Technical Commission for Aeronautics is studying the effects of wireless and other portable communications devices on commercial airliners. I've already noticed that a couple airlines have loosened requirements on when you can use your cell phone on the ground. Is the next step wireless access in the cabin, and loud cell phone chatter in the skies over the mid-west?"
Please god no.
Can you imagine a whole bussiness-class row all talking so damn loud and so full of buzzwords that makes you want to yank off their arms, so they can't call again?
No, neither do I, and I'd like it to stay that way.
Moderation: +4. Modded 70% Funny and 30% Overrated. 100% Saturated.
They will find some way to charge you for the privilege of using your own cel phone.
I don't want to be surrounded by people on the plane yakking into their cellphones. If cellphones are allowed the cabin noise will be insane.
They only emit "harmlessness
tcd004
How is this any different from someone talking to the passenger sitting next to them? Airplanes aren't movie theaters where people are expected to sit stoically and quietly. Many people are social on airplanes and I don't see how this is any different at all.
Hmmm... screw cell phones, how about WiFi? I'd much rather have WiFi on a plane than a cell phone and other people using it wouldn't really bother me.
Feel free to mod me "-1 - Angry Jerk".
Although the airlines, and the FAA might end up not carring about cell phones in use while in flight, the cellular carriers certainly will.
The whole concept that allows cell phones to work (that the signal strength at distant cells will be much weaker) only works when all of the phones are close to the surface of the earth. When the users are above the surface significantly, the relative distance between the user and multiple cells isn't very much.
A single user in a airplane making a cell call could easily consume the resources that a few hundred users would on the ground.
Filling the sky with people talking on cell phones could easily render most cell networks nearly useless.
Cell phone technology is based in part by determining which tower can hit you with the strongest signal, as each tower represents a 3-8 mile block of space.
When you're 50,000 feet in the air, you're 8 miles off the ground, and usually moving at a pretty nice rate of speed as well. Will cellular towers be able to properly figure out which tower should be handling the call, and properly do the tower-to-tower handoffs we take for granted when moving down the highway?
I always thought that the no-cell-phones-in-the-sky rules were not just to protect the plane from the unlikely but deadly random autopilot interference, but also to protect the cell networks on the ground from what would be sure to be frequent confusing situations.
If those annoying cellphone "conversations" that I can't help but overhear in the grocery store are any indiciation of what we can expect in the skies, we're in for some trouble.
"Hey Buffy, guess where I am? No, I'm not at the grocery store. I'm in an airplane over Ohio! Does, like, your parents live there and stuff? No? Oh, they're in Michigan? But isn't Michigan a city in Ohio? Oh wow. Anyhow, the guys sitting next to me on this flight just want to do read their computer books so I'm bored. Yeah, I know, and this book has a drawing of some wierd animal on it, too. Anyhow, Let's talk about the butts of all the hot guys on American Idol! That should last the rest of this five-hour flight! You are, like, such a good friend to do this for me. Nah, don't worry about the phone charges. My parents pay for my cellphone anyhow cause I told them I needed it in case of emergency. What? Oh, you want me to speak louder? Sure thing!"
GMD
watch this
However on an aircraft it'd not be feasible to separate the seating in such a way so many people will just get annoyed listening to people on the phone as well as the annoying ringtones going off all the time.
Given that there's already a way to communicate when needed, there is no reason to allow cellphones in airplaines. When the price of the calls becomes cheap, the amount of people calling their friends saying, "oh I'm over Michigan right now...I might be flying over your house, look up!" is going to become a real disruptive thing that will only serve to make my trips even more unconfortable.
Warning: Opinions known to be heavily biased.
An idea might be to use micro-cell sites, similar to those they use inside buildings and basements. The airline owner then operates the micro-site and can charge customers for in-flight use accordingly.
Because when you're talking to someone on a phone, especially in a moving jet, you're going to have to talk over the noise and reduced signal strength.
Whisper into your phone the next time you're driving and see if the person on the other side can hear you. Or plug in some amplified speakers on the plane so everyone can hear the movie. See how well that all goes over.
Now I've got no problem with casual use, but we all know how that's going to end up.
That should be the motto of aviation. But just to get a minor avantage for getting customers the airlines seems to ignore this important principle. But this could have terrible consequences. The problem with cellphones isn't just EMV. There are a number of simple solution for that ranging from faraday cages to fixed cable connections on the planes. The real problem with enabling cell phones is that you cannot determine the use of a high tech device just by looking at it's X-ray scans. And a modern airplanes like the news ones of Airbus are 100 percent computer controlled. With a sufficiently concealed device a possible abuser could take over some, if not all controls of the airplane. I think I don't need to point out the further consequences.
So for such security issues the FAA should step in and make such schemes illegal. Otherwise the possibilities of abuse might be demonstrated in a very visible way to all of us.
Owner of a Mensa membership card.
I'm a RF Engineer for a major US PCS carrier.
There's no way that our network (nor anyone else's) would be able to handle calls reliably from an airplane.
Our cells typically only cover 3-5 miles in an urban area, and 20 in a rural one. As fast as a plane travels, you'll be changing sites very quickly.
Add to that the fact that our network is designed and optimized for ground level users, and you're looking at a crappy call, assuming you can even orginate one.
IMO, a possible better solution would be a micro-cell installed on the plane that would multiplex the calls back to the PSTN.
The last plane I was one it was pretty useless to chat with others mostly because me and my buddies were back in coach. I don't know what it's like up in the clouds (first class) but talking on a cell phone is a pretty much non-issue with the engines cranked up right outside your window.
Thus, an iPod is a much better traveling companion!
A few of my co-workers and I were on a private plane and became curious about what the cellular coverage would be like while on a plane. Since the pilot didn't mind, we turned on our mobiles and watched the coverage gauges.
I'd find it hard to believe anyone could have a real conversation via mobile phone on a commercial flight. Given that our plane was relatively slow and low compared to a commercial flight, we zipped from one cell to the next. The way the coverage went from 5 bars to zero and back again every 10-15 seconds, I'd imagine the gauge would be going bonkers when that high up and going that fast.
"RING!"
"Hello?"
"Hi honey, I'll be home in--bzz--<dial tone>"
"RING!"
"Hello?"
"Sorry, lost coverage there for a--bzz--<dial tone>"
"RING!"
"Hello?"
"Cell phone dropped off again. Anyway--bzz--<dial tone>"
But why is the rum gone?
Three hours as a captive audience, trapped between an aisle seat with some guy talking to his Aunt Mildred about his inflamed hemmoroids acting up and some 14 year old by the window who decided that now is a good time to try out all the 153 ringtones she downloaded while sitting in the airport.
No. Thank. You!
My Webcomic: Asylum on 5th Street
Icepick_: A guy on a cellphone starts talking on a plane. Next thing you know the guy's taking up space on 40 cells, moving faster than the system can comprehend, and the whole thing just crashes and burns.
Woman on plane: Are there a lot of these kinds of accidents?
Icepick_: You wouldn't believe.
Woman on plane: Which PCS company do you work for?
Icepick_: A major one.
Yes, I realize calls were made on 9/11. I realized that it's practically possible. How long did those calls last? How was the voice quality? How well (if at all) did those calls hand off to the next cell site?
And to answer your second question, yes, our antennas and towers work mainly on a line of sight basis. Buy why on earth would we aim our antennas up? You really think that we use an omni-directional antenna? Heck no, all of our antennas are high gain, direction antennas, pointed horizontally, or downtilted to further aim them earthward.
Being 50k feet above a cell site, and you're going to have shit signal, and it's not going to last very long at all.
Since when did a Laptop, Gameboy or a Walkman become a triggering device on a weapon of mass destruction? I mean if the planes are so delicate should we really be flying in them? If all OSAMA needs is his sprintPCS, laptop, and a walkman turned on at takeoff to bring down a plane why didn't they try it long ago? What would freak out americans more then watching a plane crash every day? And if it was really a safty issue wouldn't they ban them from the cabin.. ala GUNS, KNIVES? The Generic reason given to turn all this stuff off at take off and landing is that it *MAY* interfer with ILS. Now I have a few tips on how to handle this. FIRST upgrade ILS.. if gameboy and walkmans are fuxing it then it needs to be upgraded.. there are several ways to get around this.. I mean if my CELL PHONE can connect me.. with a BILLON other CELL PHONES without jumping on to the wrong call then you think ILS could be upgraded to freqecny hop as well. Second what about some sheilding around the cabin? Wrap some tin foil around the cabin.. that seems to keep the aliens out of my head. Finally don't realy on ILS in the first place.. I know its tough being a pilot these days.. but put the damn drink down.. grab the big dealy between your legs and look out the shiny thing infront of you. If you can't handle it and need to get drunk on a flight buy a ticket and sit in the back with the rest of the damn drunks.
Except not as funny
Why are everybody so strung up about this?
Are you all flying more than 100 times each year? Are all your flights transatlantic, or even longer? Are you so indespensible to your company that it would be a disaster if you were out of reach for some hours?
I fly a lot, and the last thing I need is sitting next to a jabbering idiot for hours without end. It's already a pain in cinema theaters and public places like restaurants.
If you happen to be a compulsive jabber, please consider your surroundings and get a phone that doesn't require you to SHOUT INTO IT.
How small a thought it takes to fill a whole life
If we get cell phones legalized on aircraft, that will be start of getting other devices to be allowed for use. Like Portable TVs, Walkmans, GPS Receivers, Wifi cards, satelite phones, radio scanners, etc. Anyone else believe in the whole US/UK information blackout during commerical flights theory? I do. Isn't also true that a certain ham radio license lets use a certain two-way radio on aircraft?
The restriction against using cell phones aboard aircraft is not an FAA rule, it's an FCC rule. When a cell phone was used at ground level or in a building there was no problem, but using a phone at 6 miles up was causing problems with the tremendous range of transmission.
From that altitude the phones were bypassing the protocols that keep the phone talking to only one tower at a time and was causing connection problems for both the user of the phone on the plane, and others on remote cell phones on the ground.
Perhaps the cell phone industry has solved these issues with the conversion to digital, I don't know for sure. But unless these problems have been solved the FCC is unlikely to allow cell phone use from aircraft, baloons or any other "high altitude" craft.
Article X: The powers not delegated... by the Constitution...are reserved...to the people
And that differs from my experience with cell phones at ground level in what way?
Boeing and Intel have been working with several airlines on installation of paid-access WiFi on commercial airliners. As for cell access ... even if it is determined that there is no safety threat (and there probably is not), cellphones aren't designed to work at 550 miles per hour and 40,000 feet in the air. They're flaky enough on the ground. They may work on approach or takeoff, but airliners don't waste any time getting to altitude, where engines operate more efficiently in the extremely cold air.
This recent slashdot article also covered cell phones on airplanes. If we already know that they are dengerous, then the question is will electronics manufactures redesign their equipment so as not to be harmful? Or will air plane manufactures build their planes so as not to be suceptible to this type of interference? With all the terrorist stuff going on these days, I would think the latter. But since we are still using the same planes for 30 years ago, it isn't going to happen anytime soon. --jdan
As a commercial pilot and electronics geek, I'm concerned with the proliferation of electronics on board airplanes. No, I can't say what the effect of a cell phone is on the incredibly complex system of both analog and digital systems on the typical airliner. The problem is, no one else really can, either. Sure, the frequencies transmitted by cellphones are quite a bit different than avionics. But so is an FM radio. Next time you're talking on your cell phone, hold it next to your FM radio and see just how much interference you get. I'm not aware of any detailed studies on the effects of modern consumer electronics on navigation equipment, but with the speed with which new devices are always coming out, you can bet that even if one was done, it would be obsolete within a year. Sure, the technology exists for protecting and shielding electronic equipment. Given that it would cost the manufacturer more $$$ in the long run, who really thinks that any of that technology would be voluntarily implemented without being mandated by the government? Maybe going a mile off course at 35,000 feet is no huge deal, but think about that the next time you're sitting in the current generation of airplane shooting a CAT-III ILS approach down to near-zero/zero visibility. You're descending through 100 feet, you can barely see the wingtip through the fog, and you hear the cellphone that the guy next to you put in the overhead baggage and forgot to turn off, ringing......
Cell phones are electricaly noisey. A GSM phone sends out all kinds of nasty chips that get into everything. The problem is when a plane is in the clouds, there isn't much keeping it on course. There are a few gyros and the VOR (most planes still don't have GPS). At altitude, drifing off course isn't much of an issue but during an ILS approach, it could be a major disaster. An ILS approach is the pilot is looking at the instruments. There is a glide slope indicator (which a phone can mess up, I've seen it), an altermter which is based on ice not getting on the static port outside of the plane and the inner marker which is a low powered AM tranmitter. If your on the glide slope and you don't see the runway before the plane gets 200 ft above the runway (which should be when you pass the inner marker), you can't land. A modern airport will use lasers to measure the lowest level of the clouds and if they are 210 ft above the runway, they will let planes land.
So I can see the point where people get used to using their phones in the air and then some joker decides that since its ok most of the time, its ok to make a short call just before landing and flips on the phone as the plane hits the 200 foot from the ground mark and interfeers with something giving a pilot a false sense of position.
I see allowing more cell phone in a plane as setting a bad precedent.