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Technical Glitches Plague BuyMusic.com
An anonymous reader submits: "Despite its much larger target market, BuyMusic.com does not seem to be the runaway success that Apple's iTunes Music Store was. USA Today is reporting that customers have experienced technical glitches that prevent them from playing their purchases. Another customer reports that the BuyMusic tech support does little more than say 'Sorry, but that's YOUR problem.' Finally, a musician whose music is for sale at BuyMusic questions the legality of BuyMusic's catalog." Scriptygoddess's account of her unhappy experience is mirrored here.
I am really torn over this. For one I'm happy that such a service that puts such annoying restrictions on how you can use the music is failing. Yet, the other half of me is sad that now the RIAA is gonna have something to run around screaming "OMG LOOK LOOK ONLINE SERVICE IS THE SUCK" with.
Maybe if more shit like this happens, then more companies will start realizing that DRM is an unworkable mess, and people would prefer to buy non-DRM things, and we might be able to delay 1984 by a few more years.
The day buymusic.com started, I tried to check it out. I was running Windows 2000 with IE5 and the latest Windows Media Player, and I could not get any of the music clips or videos to play. In a way, I'm glad the samples had problems because I would have been pissed if I had spent money there. I haven't been back since then, and I probably won't go back.
runaway success that Apple's iTunes Music Store was
;) ). They don't half a$$ what they do.
so do we have to drop the 'runaway' now?
Seriously though, Apple knows how to make a good UI ( 10.3 not withstanding
Ease of use and meeting consumer demands wins this match (for once!).
----
In Soviet Russia, the overlords welcome you!
Go here.
Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
Funny, but TRUE.
...MACROVISION.
:D
I just came back from a vacation, and I thought I was smart enough to bring a DVD player along (well, my XBOX, since I could watch movies and play games on that one machine), since I knew the hotel's TV would have at least a composite video jack in.
Plug it in, sit down, and...
Yet another instance where I am attempting to play a legit product, and am stopped by "copy protection." I decided to fark the movie (and possibly return it out of spite) and just play KOTOR instead.
The funny thing was, if I had ripped the DVD and burned it to a DVD-R, I could've enjoyed the movie I PAID FOR, as I obviously couldn't with the original.
Could KaZaA/Sharman Networks/whoever have a potential Libel/Slander suit on their hands for buymusic.com referring to their service as a 'pirate site'?
This has never been proven in court, and has the substantial potential to damage their reputation. The only way that bm.com would be able to get away with allegations such as these, as far as I know (albeit IANAL) would be for a judge to decree that the ONLY use for KaZaA is 'piracy'.
Although, given the fact that probably 60-70% of the activity which takes place on KaZaA is 'piracy' by nature, they'd probably have a hard time making any libel/slander allegations stick.
You're doing it wrong.
Me, I'd roll it out to a targeted set of beta customers to see how well the servers did and how well people liked the service. Then I'd roll it out to everyone else.
Isn't that just what they did? Though it's been the nicest "beta" I've ever been in.
The BuyMusic fiasco proves exactly why you want a limited beta first (and DRM that doesn't kill your customer experience, but that's another issue), so that when 95% of the market really does get access they have a smooth experience from the start. The first few days of iTunes were a little shaky from an availability standpoint, but now they've figured out how to manage the load and are ramping up for the rest of the world.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
iTunes, on the other hand, gives the user EVERYTHING in a neat little package. The connection to the music store is seamless, and you can play, sort, and burn from a single app, without any of this DRM related business, or privacy concerns. If a company expects users to use their service, they could at LEAST make it easy to use, and from this account, that is probably the last thing that it is.
I have visited their site and would like to say that it feels very hollow, and dosn't have a whole lot of content. iTunes offers clip samples that are full quality and 30 seconds long(guarenteed to work because everything is done in a nice, streamlined client). I couldn't even get BuyMusic to even play the sample because of the problems with all the external player stuff. Two more things that piss me off include the fact that BuyMusic has neglected to even catagorize my favroite genre: Electronica, and the fact that it only works with Windows, and seems that they have no plans for the rest of us, and I had to access it from a public terminal because all I have at home is a mac and some Linux boxes. At least Apple is trying to port iTunes to Windows, so I could probably get it to work with WINE.
It clearly is their fault for not providing practical means to accomplish reasonable ends.
DRM. Duh.
If I can't listen to the thing in my car, on my stereo and in my portable CD player, what good is the damn thing?
You don't buy DVDs and license them for one DVD player in your house, that you can't lend to a friend or watch in your bedroom, do you?
I love iTMS don't get me wrong here. My problems with it tho are that the images hardly ever load making navigation a royal pain. And often times their system just takes a massive dump and wont let anyone purchase anything. Don't even get me started on all the "partial album" downloads they have and they are still skimping on the selection.
.Mac Backup program doesn't work for 80% of our users because the update we did screws up on firewalls". Then a week later they pulled that message off their forums along with half the user complaints. Apple is as deceitful on these things as the government is. They can do it because they fully control it.
The main difference between Apples bugs and everyone elses bugs is that Apple WILL NOT acknowledge the problem EVER. It took them 8 months to finally come out and say "Yeah the
The only reason Apples system is a success is the lack of "in your face" DRM. It will do well simply because of that. Apples services and products are good until something goes wrong. Once something goes wrong it's lie, cheat and steal time and Jobs, et. al. are laughing all the way to the bank.
I love my mac, I love OSX but I REALLY FUCKING HATE Apple. The day someone comes out with a better mouse trap I will jump ship. My iPod is wonderful but by the time someone comes out with a better mouse trap it will probably be the low end of the spectrum.
My record is on there It is also on CD NOW but that was during the contract and all cool with us. I don't have the contract (another member of the band has it) and I don't remember what it says. I haven't spoken to the other guys yet, but I'm pretty sure that contract ran out awhile ago.
Every song you buy off of buymusic.com is not paying the artists, that's for sure. And I don't know how Orchard could even have copies to sell, we sent it to them to distribute; they aren't manufacturers.
We payed for that record out of pocket, and still have a zillion. :(
If you like the samples here, let me know and I'll get you a CD. We still have boxes of the album, since the band went down right after releasing it. Ah, the sad stories of Minneapolis...
-Tom
If only they would release a linux version of ANYTHING. I'm sick of the hypocrisy from them. They want everyone to code to their OS with it's skimpy little marketshare but they wont do the same in kind for other OS's with skimpy little marketshares. Instead they port stuff half assed over to windows. If Apple would just form an alliance with other OS makers and form a strategy they could gang up on MS and make some headway, but noooooooooooo. Steve wants to have his cake and eat it too.
I've stopped buying music because of how the RIAA treats the general public. I don't trade music either. I attend more live performances and buy original DRM-free CDs direct from the musicians. And I listen to free radio a lot more, too.
I have spent quite a bit of money on iTunes Music store. It is easy to use, downloads are extremely quick, and I do not feel terribly restricted at all. I can back up my music, burn as many copies of the song as I like, and continue to listen to the music I buy indefinitely by authorizing up to three computers to play it. Computers can be de-authorized and re-authorized as I upgrade equipment too.
The thing about iTunes Music Store that makes me use it is it is reliable, and SIMPLE. Songs need only be authorized once and entire albums are authorized simultaneously. In fact I have yet to have to authorize anything because when I download they are automatically authorized into the computer I am currently using.
Downloads are really fast too, they must have major bandwidth. It just seems like Apple negotiated FAR better terms for their users than the other music download services, which all seem to have onerous restrictions. If Apple opens their service up to Windows users, they will own the online music business. Apple gets it.
Well, don't just tell the slashdot crowd that. Let BuyMusic know that you can't use their service from your browser of choice. If they don't see any business lost from not supporting Moz, then they will see no reason to support Moz.
After looking at your listing on BMcom it reminds me of another idiotic error in their site: why the hell does EVERY song need a preview of the cover art? Have you ever seen an album with different cover art for every track? No? Thought so.
Good luck on getting your royalties....hope things go well for you and the old band.
iTunes Music Store:
Emphasis on ease of use, customer experience, technical quality.
Focal issue: adding value to Mac systems to attract switchers and sell iPods.
Result: Pretty decent music service, all things considered.
I can't believe how easy iTMS is to access and set up, and allowing you to actually own the music you purchase is the selling point. I can play it on three computers including my workstation at the lab, my home workstation and the iTunes music server we have set up at the house. Apple has made a number of purchases of iPods and Macs simply from people coming over to parties at our house and seeing how cool the iTunes music server is. We have our entire music collection on that thing in a searchable, organizable database, and I never have to mess with another jewelcase again. The iTMS has made it possible for me never to have to drive down to the hateful mall music store again.
BuyMusic.com:
Emphasis on Being Cheaper than iTMS, locking out non-approved systems, Looking an awful lot like iTMS.
It looks like iTMS even down to the commercials, but like most things in the computer industry that copy Apple, they copy Apple badly. Also, look at the wording of the sales bit. Songs from.79 cents. I have priced a number of albums, and if they are available, which often times they are not despite being listed, the albums end up being more expensive than iTMS. Also, as mentioned in the linked blog, DRM is a total pain in the ass with BuyMusics version.
Focal issue: Establish self as competition for iTMS before Apple gets the Windows version out.
I tried using BuyMusic.com on a Windows system here and it is a total farce. Songs listed are not actually available, things are expensive, I cannot figure out how to deauthorize the computer I used to attempt to purchase songs, etc...etc...etc... Apple is gonna waste these jokers if they can get iTMS available for Windows in a timely manner.
Result: left as an exercise for the reader.
I know what my experience has been, and I will be happily using iTMS on OS X, thankyou.
Visit Jonesblog and say hello.
They advertise as low as 79 cents, but after after skimming through about a dozen prices, the lowest I fount was 99 cents, and many of the songs were $1.14.
Example
But there is the problem of finding the music, and weeding out the bad stuff without actually having to download and play it all.
This problem is solved with iRATE radio's collaborative filtering:
iRATE radio's server has 46,000 tracks registered in its database - so if you use iRATE, you don't need to go hunting for music anymore. All of these are legal downloads from websites like mine. (I compose for the piano.)The way iRATE works is that it downloads a few tracks at random at first. It downloads them directly from the artists' Web sites after finding them in its database. (The author of iRATE is careful to register only legal downloads.) After you listen to and rate the tracks, your ratings are sent back to the server where it uses statistical analysis to correllate your ratings with the ratings given by other users. If you like the same kind of music I do, then iRATE will send you all the same music I like. Conversely, if you hate my music, iRATE won't send you the music I like.
iRATE is a java program, known to work on Windows, Linux and Mac OS X. The client and server are both Free Software, licensed with the GPL.
Here's some screen shots.
While iRATE works on Mac OS X, it could stand some improvement. Apple provides a package which can give java programs a native Mac OS look and feel. The project is actively seeking Mac OS X java programmers
Request your free CD of my piano music.
My Email:
Their Response:Apple, on the other hand, has a form on their support page that specifically deals with cases where a computer goes down for the count, or where the user sells or formats the computer forgetting to deauthorize it.
http://www.info.apple.com/usen/musicstore/musicsto re.html?topic=computer_authorization
I'm really really surprised that BuyMusic put absolutely NO thought into what would happen if a user loses his computer, or decides its time to retire it. This is not some obscure issue that will never come up for most people. Upgrading one's computer is the one constant of using a PC, really! Its making very little sense to use this at all compared to going to a store and picking up the CD.
Then again, there's the Apple Music Store model:
1. Design something whch works well;
2. Make a fair deal (with usually unfair people) and honor your agreement;
4. Treat those who use your service as valued customers and not like necessary evils;
5. Profit ?
Frankly if I were making decisions for Apple, I would seriously cosider *not* making a Windoze version of the Music Store. How long could it possibly take for M$ and the RIAA to agree to somethng obvious.
Ok everyone I'm going to warn you ahead of time this is going to be a bit messy. I also want to pre-apologize for the sporadic bile spewing.
What we have going on here (which I don't see anyone discussing this in depth) are the 2 heavily conflicting spiels coming out of the 2-mouthed double talkers of the media companies.
OK when you go buy a DVD or a CD, or an electronic song, you are getting essentially 2 things, Media and a license.
Now from all the claptrap that is going a reasonable person would think that the license if the big deal. Pay for the license and all is well. If this were the case then the media would be inconsequential. The format or type of the media would be irrelevant. Fair use could be exercised and all would be well. If this were true then you should able to reasonably get replacement media with reasonable verification of license and a modest replacement fee. (This is what Nintendo basically told me when i asked about if my gamecube games are damaged, I still have the email). Alas this is *FALSE*. There may be a few anecdotes on people who have managed to strong arm someone into doing it, usually right after the sale, but to the best my knowledge there is no such thing.
What problem is this a different metaphor for? DVD regioning. Again if the license was the real issue, and you paid said license, then if you were to move to a new region you should reasonably be able to turn in your old media a reasonable service charge (80-100% is not reasonable, if it were then the license would be only 0-20% of the cost) and get media that will play in your new region.
Now lets walk over to the other side of the fence. Let us say that instead of licensing you *bought* and actually *owned* that copy of the music. Well then you could do all the things you normally do with any other object you own. Use it until if falls apart, sell it, rent it, loan it, try it out in the store maybe? Once you own something its your responsibility to take care of it. If its a manufacturing defect its covered under warranty.
The current state of affairs is neither. You pay for a license with all sorts of restrictions of use, you have media that won't be replaced. With DVDs its illegal to make legit backup copies to prevent damage. The media guys want to have it all their way. This kind of behavior of treating your 'customers' like the scum of the earth is unsustainable.
Thank you for your indulgence.
I just came back from a vacation, and I thought I was smart enough to bring a DVD player along (well, my XBOX, since I could watch movies and play games on that one machine), since I knew the hotel's TV would have at least a composite video jack in. Plug it in, sit down, and... ...MACROVISION.
Yet another instance where I am attempting to play a legit product, and am stopped by "copy protection." I decided to fark the movie (and possibly return it out of spite) and just play KOTOR instead. :D
Even better: xbox+modchip = no macrovision, no region protection, and you can even rip games and dvds to the hard drive for faster load times and instant access (no hunting down that disc that's under the pile of clothes in your game room)
And when you upgrade the xbox hd to 120 gigs, you have the perfect media jukebox on the go. (for your situation, at least)
The theory of relativity doesn't work right in Arkansas.
Same for me. I bought a CD. It was copy protected. Can't play on my linux boxes, plays very poorly on my mac, can't put it on my ipod, AND it does not play on my 1 year old hifi. I returned it and copied it from some p2p network. I don't like to do it, but I had no choice if I wanted to listen to it.
copy protection -> p2p
I'll do it for cheesy poofs.
I agree. And don't think there's no way for us both to pay musicians motivated enough to ask for a tip (see www.radsfans.net for example).
Imagine if the RIAA had spent half the money they've spent on lawyers by now pushing tipjar-advocacy instead. e-gold has been around since 1996 and musicians like Courtney Love sure TALK a good game about going around the RIAA quintopoly, but so far I've seen little action from her (she's in her binge-phase again?). Still, it's possible to get paid directly, with e-gold and a bunch of others by now, whether or not the RIAA or artists like Courtney actually choose to think about the issue or try a better form of money...
JMR
Try e-gold - (contact me). I'm NOT e-
Copy protection or "DRM" is nothing new. The software industry tried it in the 80s with different floppy based tricks. The whole idea died when:
* The pundits started trashing the concepte because it really, really sucked when you couldn't re-install Lotus 1-2-3 which cost $295 (that's about 595 in today's $). Now were talkin a $20 CD.
* Central Point Software made a killing on a product called Coppy II PC which would basically autohack copy protected stuff ranging from dBase to Lotus 1-2-3 to Apache and Broderbund's games.
* Companies like Borland would steal market share from the big players by highlighting their stuff wasn't copy protected and had a "paperback" license where you could install on as many machines as you want, but only user one installation.
* Software publishers did a cost-benefit analysis and realized that they would loose 3-5% in sales and pick up 5-10% in profit margin by not licensing copy protection.
Consumers want stuff they can use.
-- $G
"BuyMusic is new to this market, is a good company, and will continue to succeed"
iTunes sold a million songs to 5% of the computer population in 1 week. Rave reviews, no problems with glitches, or anything like that.
BuyMusic sells less than 1/2 that number of songs to 20 times the number of users, has bad reviews, infringing artists copyrights, removing fair use restrictions for consumers, and YOU CALL THAT A SUCCESS?
I call it an astounding failure that will be a big black eye to Buy.com, Microsoft (for their horrible DRM), and mostly to the RIAA which is too busy suing their customers to make sure they have a product worth selling.
I hope people like you curl up into a ball, go into a basement and stop bothering honest decent people.
I won't ever, pay to download anything in WMA format just like I won't install Real player no matter how many porn sites need it.
The sad thing, is the actual compression technology in Windows Media 8 and 9 is quite impressive, both audio and video.
I just don't understand why Microsoft has gotten off the path that actually made them a respected company at one time.
They were really strong about providing clients for their technologies for other platforms in the early 90s, and then it stopped.
Whoever the donkey at Microsoft that decided it was bad business to provide a media player client for *nix and other OSes should be knocked up side the head.
If WMA is ever going to really show its abilities, Microsoft MUST provide clients and encoders for other OSes than Windows.
I can almost understand them stopping the IE client development for other OSes. But not having clients for WMA/WMV on every platform is just shooting themselves in the head.
On my laptop where space is a premium, I like the fact I can use WMA for my audio, and have the files almost half the size at the same quality as a MP3.
I just want to see Microsoft start doing the right thing again, and get client players for these technologies on all OSes if they truly believe in them.
If not, give up the goat. Go back to the standards body and release the codecs into the public domain and give up the idea of being their 'own' standard. Which is a concept that has killed so many companies and products over the years.
Speaking as a Nerd, I don't want Apple Music Store to survive either. Even though it's attempts at DRM are half-hearted, I would rather see a world without it.
Does anyone know if Fourier (or the person who invented DCT) is alive today? I wonder if these mathemetitians ever thought that their algorithms would someday lead to college students getting sued en masse by large corporations for listening to music. If any of them are still alive, I'd love to hear their opinions.
-=-=-=-=-=
I'd rather be flamed than ignored.
This sounds awesome. They even use lame --alt-preset standard. This is great for listeners, but I wonder if they've paid Frauenhofer their pounnd of flesh. MP3s aren't Free, even if the encoder is. As much as I'd like to cry "If it's not Ogg I won't buy it!", I'm sure one of their biggest selling points is that their files are interoperable everywhere. If this takes off the way CDBaby has, maybe they'll have the leverage to push Ogg eventually.
Before I sign up, does anyone have any comments about the service? Are the downloads really unlimited? Can I saturate my cable modem 24/7? I'm gonna check this out as soon as I free up some space.
Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
If you sneak into a movie theater and watch a movie without paying, have you committed theft? Piracy? No? (mebbe the theater can call the cops on you for trespassing?)
Clearly you have done something wrong. You have gotten something without paying the asked price. Do they charge too much? Are they ripping off the Actors by controlling distribution of their work? Maybe.
Does that give you the moral/legal right to not pay?
I don't think so. Downloading music instead of buying the CD seems about the same. You aren't stealing. You aren't even a pirate. You are consuming a commercial good/service without paying the asked price. (disclaimer: I have downloaded music without paying)
Occurs to me that this is more like peeking through the fence at the circus. You aren't going in and enjoying the show without paying, you aren't taking anything away from the circus owner since you probably wouldn't have paid anyway. You aren't even trespassing because you are on public property. But you are doing something wrong. You are getting something for free that the circus owner has spent money to put together to make a living from. He has a right to chase you away from the holes in the fence.
There is much cruelty in the universe, John.
Yeah, we seem to have the tour map.
I'm quite famaliar with the Mac platform, I use it every day on my roomates computer. And I'm not talking about Kazaa vs. iTunes.
Here is what I mean.
1. RIAA wants DRM on all music files
2. Apple makes it very easy to remove DRM, therefore making it very easy to share files with friends, without paying.
3. What Apple did is not a hard thing to do for any big company. Why do other companies make their DRM so much of a pain in the ass?
I mean, since apple can run a high quality low DRM music web site, why aren't there others? It certainly isn't a technical problem.
I saturated my cable modem pretty heavily during my 3-month emusic.com binge. I pulled about 35GB through, and ended up keeping about 10. Go for bulk. Filter later. :)