Slashdot Mirror
Real Announce Helix Grant Program, Player
Rob Lanphier writes "RealNetworks made two announcements at LinuxWorld this week: we will be giving out up to $75,000 by the end of the year for development of open source projects based on the Helix multimedia platform. Also, we just formally launched the Helix Player project, which is a project to build a GTK+ based user interface for Linux, Solaris, and other UNIXy operating systems. Press releases for the grant program here and player project here"
The Helix program is nothing but a set of "standardized" shells. The media player is simply the player sans any codecs and the server is simply and encoder/server again sans the codecs. Apparently, you're supposed to buy the codecs from Real. Even more annoying is the fact that you can't even download the blasted beta software without becoming an active developer and signing and faxing 5 different NDAs! What the hell kind of "open source" is this anyway?!
Javascript + Nintendo DSi = DSiCade
But anyway, better read all this carefully.
So, they'll be paying the equivalent of the salary of a single developer for a year. And this is impressive, why?
options.c
bool DRM_Enabled = True;
bool player_works = True
etc.. etc..
sounds like this could be a good thing. the older versions of real player for linux worked with moderate success. but they were shoved far out of reach on the real site like that guy in office space who likes his stapler so much. the versions weren't quite current and the players were sub-standard compared to the windows version. it'd be nice if they released a decent media player for linux and even better if it were open sourced.
Can I port the bit of Realplayer that takes over your browser and can only be removed with holy water and a complete reinstall?
Vino, gyno, and techno -Bruce Sterling
When open source meets traditional business the results aren't always what the GNU and FSF might get excited about, but an honest effort is better then nothing.
Just imagine if someone like Adobe showed this much community support with open source.
There is nothing inherently wrong with the real video format the compression and error correction is actually quite good for low bitrate streaming... it is the bloated adware infested interface that is awful!
- PS. This is what part of the alphabet would look like if Q and R where eliminated.
Programmers could be the bounty hunters of the future, coding and chasing down bugs for profit and adventure.
True genius is grasping a situation like a peice of fruit, and peircing it just right so that it drains dry.
TRPlayer
thor
Linux, Solaris, and other UNIXy operating systems.
Why not just sum that up with "Derivatives of SCO IP" ?!?
People these days...
The unofficial
mpeg4ip for encoding, Darwin Streaming Server for serving, VLC/MPlayer/Helix/mpeg4ip for playing.
It is surprising to see the flak this news is receiving given that Real will be the first company to work towards a player(Helix player) on the linux platform. Now only if apple would follow suite, we wouldnt have to rely on cross over plugins to play these formats.
Siggy Say, Siggy Do
Real >>>buffering 34%>>> Player is some >>>buffering 46%>>> of the >>>buffering 54%>>> finest >>>buffering 60%>>> software I've ever >>>buffering 70%>>> come across.
Support the First Amendment. Read at -1
While any commercial software that gets developed for Linux is a plus for everyone involved, I think their $75k would be better spend on a programmer for a year. This seems like an inexpensive way for them to generate "buzz" around their product in the OSS community - even though their product is not OSS.
Don't get me wrong - I think the REAL codecs are great, but this "offer" isn't.
I'd rather be a conservative nutjob than a liberal with no nuts and no job.
While I love MPEG-4 for what it's good at, what it's good at doesn't include real-time streaming over the public internet. Darwin + MPEG-4 doesn't offer any good form of scalability. Thus, if you encode a file at 400 Kbps, and a user's connection is 350 Kbps for a few minutes, they'll get a horrible quality experience.
RealMedia supports SureStream, which lets you put up to eight pairs of video and audio into a single file, and the server and player communicate in real time to determine the optimum data rate for the transmission. It'll even raise and lower data rate as connection speed changes - very useful for cable modem and shared bandwidth from work.
This will come in MPEG-4 eventually, via Fine Grain Scalability (FGS), or some future scalable version of the AVC codec. But that's a couple years away from being in real consumer products I'd guess.
Oh, and I totally don't believe that you really regularly use MPEG4IP for volume compression. I mean, the TOOLS are there, but you have to go through like five different command line steps to make a file. It can produce fine results (it uses Xvid), but MPEG4IP is really like LAME - it's not meant as an end-use tool in and of itself. Well, the player is fine stand alone.
My video compression blog
Should Slashdot editors post an article by someone who works for RealNetworks? He only gave links to sites run by Real. Shouldn't it at least contain a few links from actual news sources like C-Net, who might put things in a less partial perspective?
One could argue that it's better to get an article straight from the source, then read the comments for impartial opinion and review. However, I disagree. Slashdot should be a collection of articles that the community found interesting and submitted on their own. It shouldn't become a press release distribution ground for promoting corporate agendas to Linux geeks.
my blog
I've always felt linux has been lacking massive quanities of advertisements.
I'll believe it when I see it. With the way things have worked to date, you'll probably need 3 click throughs for the player, then as a separate binary download, you'll need to either sign NDAs or download a package riddled with Spyware. To date, Real has shown *very* little openness in the process despite the supposed "open source" bent. If it's open source, WHY do I need to sign NDAs? It just doesn't add up!
Javascript + Nintendo DSi = DSiCade
And if you want interoperability, Real is still the way to go. There is no other format for streaming media where all the following applies:
- Streaming server running on Linux
- Encoder running on Linux
- Players for Linux (including Alpha, PowerPC and IA32 architectures) and a few other Unix-type systems: Solaris, AIX, IRIX, Mac OS X.
- Server and players capable of understanding SMIL
Plus, most of the server, encoder and player code is open-source (except the GUI). I have already compiled it, and it works great.And people who really understand about streaming media know that MPEG4 is no alternative, yet.
The press release listed these codecs for this player:
SMIL 2.0
RealVideo (RV9, RV8, RV7, RVG2)
RealAudio (RA8, G2 audio)
MP3
Ogg Vorbis
MPEG4 (patent license for MPEG4 must be obtained separately)
H.263
My video compression blog
Dear Real Networks,
Please go away and rethink your business model and come back when you are ready to release something of value.
If you wish to win the hearts and minds of open source developers you need to do more than your current offer which smacks of "Here is 75K, code & licenses of questionable value, please go do our coding for us".
Instead you might want to check out a _profitable_ business model like that used by TrollTech, SleepyCat Software, ZeroC and others. The scheme is this: Release your codecs as a GPL library that allows open source (GPL) code to link against it. Proprietary software is required to purchase a seperate license to use the library. Sell a high quality proprietary multimedia production app that uses these codecs.
Remember, business is about taking measured risks, and it's time for Real "realize" this.
Otherwise Real risks fading into obscurity. The sentiment here [in my office] is that this has already happened. The time for bold action has arrived.
Helix has got a much more advanced streaming technology. It can get/send streams by TCP, UDP and HTTP. It supports multi-bitrate streams (a single stream can be encoded in more than one bit rate). The player has better buffering. And it supports something than neither Xine or MPlayer have ever dreamed of: markup and scripting with SMIL, RealText and RealPix.
Introduction
The current situation is that one has to use RealOne player to play RealMedia files. One has to register the player before you can play a file, but the player will simply go around in loops asking you to register, no matter how many times you do it. Even when it does start to play it crashes and leaks --for it has become a kitchen-sink(TM) application.
Of course, there are stuff like Xine and MPlayer, but their legal status is dubious and since being done the sneaky way is not working at the best.
If RealMedia is reluctant to come out with a simpley player for playing RealMedia audio and video files ONLY (i.e. no 'jukebox' or ripping or audio-cd making and other junk), let others write them by making the codecs freely distributable (for playing back ONLY) and making the interface documentation freely available.
Helix: Episode IV: A New Hope
This Helix thing seems to be more than just the audio-video stuff, and seems to encompass a broader take on mult-media on the Internet.
Does this bring up a hope that such simple players (non-sneaky) could be a reality in the near future?
GrimReality
2003-08-07 02:51:07 UTC (2003-08-06 22:51:07 EDT)
The kind it was designed to be--that movement doesn't consider the freedom to share and modify the program to be as important as the practical development advantages to a business. Sometimes this means approving licenses that are also considered free software licenses, sometimes it will not. The FSF has an informative article on the philosophical differences between the two movements.
Digital Citizen
The codec is only a piece of the picture. The container format is very important, and usually what people standardize on. Helix is giving us that and more.
The project was not, I suspect, suppose to be an 'end-user' type project. Note that they did not release any binaries. Helix is a platform.
Helix provides a uniform, client, server, and encoder source base. All open source. All we need to do now is build binaries around that. Industry will much easier pick up a product built on Real's helix, than something managements never heard of.
I'd wager that the legality of MPlayer and xine is questionable. From the dll's they import to the codecs they emulate. Real is giving us something that they own for sure.
Based on upvotes, Ageism is the only "-ism" Slashdotters care about and think isn't SJW
Helix's licenses have been cleared by the people that help protect the open-source definition http://opensource.org/
By the way they're not giving a client. They're giving us the framework to build the client, and the server, and the encoders. There's no "nagware" unless open source developers choose to put it there.
The problem I suspect is that the helix project is geared to to people that can do something with the source, not end users. Hence most of slashdotters have no idea how this project can help them.
Based on upvotes, Ageism is the only "-ism" Slashdotters care about and think isn't SJW
Getting the code is admittedly more complicated than it needs to be (and we're working on that), but hyperbole like the parent post should not be modded up as "Informative". The steps are:
1. Sign up for the site, filling in a form with proposed user name, real name, company name, and email.
2. Receive confirmation URL, and visit included URL
3. Agree to site terms of use
4. Agree to RPSL (an OSI certified license)
5. Get source code via CVS/SSH
Why are we being hardasses about making sure that people agree to licenses? It's a combination of the way the legal system works, and our general conservativeness that stems from being a publicly traded company.
There are good reasons to ensure that "manifestation of assent" occurs, even for open source. I'll defer to Larry Rosen's excellent paper on the topic. Larry, as you may know, is the General Counsel for the Open Source Initiative, and while his opinion is only an opinion, it's a very well informed one.
As for the functionality, it's more than just "shells". There's complete software there, and it's the foundation of our commercial products. Additionally, the combination of Ogg Vorbis, SMIL 2.0, JPEG, GIF, and PNG is very powerful, and *all open source*. No RealAudio/RealVideo necessary, and the app is pretty unique. For an example which plays in the Helix Player (and versions of RealPlayer/RealOne Player with the Ogg Vorbis codec installed), check out the following link:
http://rtsp.org/2003/demos/oggsmil/oggdemo.smil
Once one starts looking at SMIL (especially SMIL 2.0), you begin to realize that a system that can support it does a lot.
Rob Lanphier
Helix Community Coordinator
This is a great set of observations. We've learned a lot in the past year, and we realized that with this initiative, we can't be as hyperfocused on developers as we have been in the past. Hence why we're working on the building a great piece of *open source* end user software for Linux/Solaris/etc.
So in short, you're correct, the initiative is focused on developers, and I'm glad you're recognizing the value of the system.
Rob Lanphier
Helix Community Coordinator