Kazaa CEO vs. Hilary Rosen

Carpoolio writes "TechTV is continuing its good coverage of the RIAA attack on file swappers, and now they've gone to Australia to interview Nikki Hemming, CEO of Sharman Networks (Kazaa). It's supposedly one of the only TV interviews she's ever done, and Hemming has some interesting things to say about Hilary Rosen and the RIAA, and the future of Kazaa, but without revealing too much. In TechTV's story (part of a three-part series), they've pitted the two against each other, using a recent interview they did with Rosen. Streaming video of the Rosen interview is included on the site."

Comments

So...

[groove10]

which one is Gozilla and which one is Mothra?

Re:So...

[krumms]

Which one's Barbara Streisand and which one is The Cure's Robert Smith? ;)

Nikki Hemming vs. Hilary Rosen

[Michael Hunt]

Sounds like an, uhm, interesting mud wrestling match. I would seriously pay for front row seats to that.

In the, erm, brown corner we have Hilary Rosen; devourer of civil liberties, champion of everyone's IP rights (for varying values of 'everyone',) and destroyer of the fell beast Napster.

In the, uhm, OTHER brown corner, we have Nikki Hemming; fearless leader of Sharman Networks, profiteers behind such wonderful, life enhancing software as 'KaZaA Media Desktop;' single-handedly responsible for installing the Brilliant Digital plugin onto millions of desktops.

Like I said. Front row seats. Winner gets a latex fist, ten pounds of diff grease and a brass replica of the Scales of Justice.

Re:Nikki Hemming vs. Hilary Rosen

[Goldberg's Pants]

The thing I find interesting is this comment from Rosen.

"If you're using KaAaA today, you're getting, in my view, a crappy quality song -- not what the artist did in the studio, not what they wanted you to hear, not their finest work," she said."

Her contention is if you grab a song off Kazaa, you're getting an inferior versions.

I find this interesting, given the RIAA has said all along that the reason they're going after P2P is because the digital piracy of Napster has ability to make unlimted identical copies with no loss of quality.

Hmmm... Rosen speak with forked tongue methinks...

This will haunt them.

[aerojad]

Once again, the RIAA is going to make life hard for theirselves down the line as they continue to sue their own customer base. Not a good business pratice, never will be.

Re:This will haunt them.

[Awptimus Prime]

Agreed. I do not buy CDs anymore due to the RIAA's actions in recent years. Not only it's bad business practice concerning filing suits against individuals, but it's push for hacked CDs and other devices to prevent me from making backups of my purchases.

In regards to their panic and need to sue everyone under the sun over mp3's, why do they get so upset when their public statements regarding the quality of pirated music as inferior to the CDs they sell? It would seem to me that inferior, unauthorized, copies would give downloaders an extra incentive to purchase after they download.

Aside from my dislike over their litigation happy ways, other things that contribue to my refusal to purchase CDs:

1) over-simplified, stereotypical bands and music categories. There's only ever a few songs from a few big names, with an occasional introductory band of any given category. At least that's all that ever hits the airwaves and major music stores.

2) too much urge for political control. For the RIAA to be such a small sector in the economy, it has an incredible amount of political backing. They have systematically bought votes from a great number of politicians through donations and capaign funds.

3) refusal to modernize business practice. The use of litigation and threats appear to be the means by which to keep a mid-1900's business model afloat in the new millenium. If all that money was spent on enabling technology and music, they wouldn't be sinking financially.

4) refusal to acknowledge why sales are plumetting. They scream 'piracy!' when it comes to falling numbers. But, take the percentage loss of sales in the past two years and compare it to the loss of sales for movie tickets, vacations, amusement parks, and other recreational spending.

I am certain the decline is global and due to a sinking world economy. Their sales will pick back up if they calm down, release more titles for people who aren't 16-20 years old, and wait for the economy to get rolling again.

Gotta love the FUD

[mericet]

"If you're using KaAaA today, you're getting, in my view, a crappy quality song -- not what the artist did in the studio, not what they wanted you to hear, not their finest work" - Rosen

Yeah, but that's what you get when you buy a CD too, a much too loud abomination of what the artist recorded.

Re:Gotta love the FUD

[infornogr]

Yeah, but that's what you get when you buy a CD too, a much too loud abomination of what the artist recorded.

Couldn't agree more.
Information on the 'too loud' problem for the less-informed: http://www.prorec.com/prorec/articles.nsf/articles /8A133F52D0FD71AB86256C2E005DAF1C

Re:Gotta love the FUD

[dytin]

The way I see it (I'm no expert either, but this is how I understood it from the link) is that basically a CD has a maximum volume that it can have. We'll call this level 10 volume. The volume of course flucuates a lot in a regular song, but each song has an 'average' volume. Back in the old days of mastering, they would try to get this average volume at around 5. That way, you could have loud sounds occasionally, and soft sounds too. However, what soon happened was that whenever an amateur recorded a CD, their average volume would be at around 3 or so, and you'd have to turn your stereo's volume way up to hear them. So eventually people began to associate a low average volume with unproffesional bands. So then, the professionals started to make their average volume to be at around 6. This would cause their CDs to sound even more professional, because it was even louder than the other professional CDs. This was alright, because there was still a lot of lee-way for the volume to increase when it needed to. However, recently the professional CDs have increased their average volume even higher, to maybe 8 or 9. This is bad though, because there is not much lee-way for the volume to increase. If the average volume were at 10, then all the sounds in the CD would be at the exact same volume, and there would be no variety, thus causing the song to sound like crap.

So who do we support?

[Prince_Ali]

Do we support Hilary 'CD Crippler' Rosen or Nikki 'Spyware Installer' Hemming?

Damn!

[magsymp]

I was hoping they would mention if pirated versions of NHL 2004 were going to be available soon. I bet Nikki gets all the stuff first. -- I guess i'll give up file-sharing and go back to stabbing hookers.

i *WANT* to buy CDs...

[LordYUK]

But then I realize that part of the 15 bucks I would have given to best buy or whatever is going to fund a lawsuit against the parents of some 13 year old girl who downloaded the latest n*stink song, listened to it twice, and forgot about it (nevermind the fact that the song COULD have been copied from the GOD DAMN RADIO)...

So I am left with hunting on KaZaA for a song that may or may not be the real (or whole) song, and might very well crap out halfway through the download...

RIAA, sod off... some of us want your music, and WOULD pay 13-15 bucks for a CD, but not if you're going to rape us...

Re:Kazaa should be shut down

[mjmalone]

Why is it you think this should be illegal to distribute? It would probably be safest to keep this material out of the hands of minors, but what gives you the right to tell someone else what they can and cannot see? In my opinion the government should spend less time monitoring and governing lifestyle issues (drugs, alcohol, porn, hookers, gambleing, etc.) and spend more time on issues like health care, education, and campaign finance reform.

Hang on... At least they agree on something??

[madaxe42]

No they don't...

"P2P is unstoppable," Hemming said. It's a statement Rosen would likely agree with.

Sorry, but where I come from, that's mere hypothesis... Rosen probably would agree, but she actually hasn't...

Also, KaZaA (or whatever silliness they do with their capital letters) is known to be one of the most prolific distributors of spyware on the internet, so do we support them, or the technophobic legalistic RIAA?

Oh well, each to their own. Use freenet! (They kennae catch you that way ;) )

Hmm

[Anonymous Coward]

Rosen claims KaZaA is ruining, not expanding, the recording industry by allowing inferior copies of music to be downloaded with its software. "If you're using KaAaA today, you're getting, in my view, a crappy quality song -- not what the artist did in the studio, not what they wanted you to hear, not their finest work," she said.

I thought the problem the RIAA had with digital copying was that copies were near-perfect and did not degrade over generations? There Hilary is telling us that digital copies are not good copies.

The RIAA, two faced? Never! If digital copies suck so much, I want my LP's back, too!

Re:Kazaa should be shut down

[MImeKillEr]

I agree with you 100%. If anything, the government needs to step in and police people who think that its someone else's job to raise their kids, teach their kids values, teach their kids manners, and keep their kids from growing up to be thugs.

Personally, I think people with the mentality that we need more government to 'protect' us need to be sterilized - to ensure that they can't pollute the genepool with their complacant beliefs and attitudes.

I applaud your moral conviction.

[Prince_Ali]

Wow, I applaud your moral conviction. To pirate a CD instead of buying it must have been a terrible ordeal. You will be held as a martyr for your unthinkable sacrifice. You are the Ghandi of your day! If only more people could have the strength of character to take things without paying for them the world would be a better place.

Yes, that was sarcasm!

Re:I applaud your moral conviction.

[LordYUK]

Its a helluva lot easier to get a CD at target for 13 bucks as opposed to hunting on Kazaa for the entire thing in good quality that isnt the chorus repeated over and over and over...

but if even 1 penny of that purchase goes to fund a lawsuit, they fuck 'em. I'd rather infringe their copyright.

Oh, and if they dont want us listening to their music for free, then perhaps they shouldnt play it on the radio... I'd guess that over 95% of the stuff I download is the flavor of the week on the radio.

Re:I applaud your moral conviction.

[panda]

How 'bout just shoplifting the CD?

You get the music for free and you get to hurt the store owner who is pimping for the RIAA! :-) - for the sarcasm impaired.

Bias Shown in First Paragraph

[goldspider]

"Her company's technology may be dragging the entertainment industry, kicking and screaming, into a future of file swapping, but the entertainment industry would rather drag Nikki Hemming and her company into court."

I love how TechTV is portraying Kazaa as the noble progressive, leading us all into the GLORIOUS FUTURE OF FILE-SHARING, while Rosen and Co. are stodgy, grumpy old dinosaurs seeking to deprive humanity of life-saving technology.

I know all of the "blah blah outdated business model blah blah" arguments, and even agree with some of them, but TechTV didn't lend itself much credibility (IMHO) with their one-sided opening remarks.

I am now grabbing my ankles, waiting for moderators to get ahold of this.

Re:Kazaa should be shut down

[warpmoon]

First of all, why are you even watching stuff like that?

Second, Kazaa is a distribution network, not the material itself. It's not Kazaa's fault that certain people share files like that. Shutting down Kazaa won't fix that problem, just as removing roads isn't the fix for getting rid of smugglers.

Random Thoughts

[bafraid2b1]

How is the RIAA finding out who's sharing what on Kazaa? Are they using Kazaa to do it? And if they are, by simply using the Kazaa software are they killing their own case?

The thing that we all need to realize, like Napster and Morpheus, Kazaa is essentially dead now. Let it go. Nobody wants to share on it now for fear of being caught. So the real question is where's the next filesharing service? The one that we can all use for another year or two until legal action is taken against it and we move on to the next one?

Re:Random Thoughts

[ahfoo]

Well I'm using K++Lite right now and it says 3.3 million. So, that's not quite dead. And an issue that is just casually glazed over in this debate that the RIAA has ignited is that much of the material traded isn't under the copyright of any RIAA memeber.
Moreover, the laws vary from country to country. Sadly, as an American, I am under the impression that the most repressive and backwards copyright laws are from the US although they're spreading fast in Europe. I live in Asia though, and laws tend to vary dramatically here from region to region. And since we have abundant bandwidth, it makes me wonder about the future of P2P.
This may be a long shot, but perhaps we'll begin to see a rising Asian cultural imperialism as an unintended consequence of this western reaction to the progress of information tehcnology. I already notice vast amounts of Japanese porn on P2P although you don't tend to see it unless you use Chinese or Japanese characters for your searches. If you do, however, there's a surprisingly large quantity.
This could be interesting as it might foreshadow P.K. Dick's vision of the future Los Angeles with Japanese and Chinese overtaking Spanish as the predominant popular culture languages of the region. I actually moved to Taipei in the early 90s because it reminded me so much of the image of LA in the movie Bladerunner.

Thanks for the reminder...

[NineNine]

I had forgotten to fire up my copy of Kazaa this morning!

Re:Kazaa should be shut down

[TamMan2000]

Kazaa shut be shut down. There is some really nasty videos there that affect the mental health of young people.

Use search keywords 'faces of death' and you see what I mean. There are some videos where someone shoots a woman in head and that kind of shit that should be banned and illegal to distribute.

I suspect you are trolling, but I will bite...

The presence of those videos, like the copyrighted material, is the responsibility of the users of Kazaa not the makers of Kazaa. Also, if you are worried about the mental health of young people, maybe you should not let young people you care about use Kazaa, if you are conserned about other peoples children, tell them not to let their children use Kazaa. The fact is that the internet (and TV if you ask the right people) are full of material that someone will find objectionable, If you don't like the material, don't seek it out, nobody is forcing you to. Perhaps we should ban angry music and the movie Bambi because they can be damaging to the mental health of young people as well...ell...

Technology

[mopslik]

"I don't think you do stop technology," Rosen said. "I don't think we'd want to stop technology."

Indeed, the RIAA would rather load up CDs with copy-protection technologies instead. I've had to turn down three recent CDs that I was interested in, since I know they won't play on most of my computers or linux-based portables. A shame, since I would have shelled out the $18CAN for them too.

hmm.

[BilldaCat]

I didn't know you could videotape the devil. I thought it would be like with vampires and mirrors, not being able to see themselves, or something. :\

Re:Do you want your children see someone get shot?

[MImeKillEr]

Please tell me this - do you want YOUR children see a video where someone gets shot in the head?

No, I wouldn't want my kids to see this. But you know what? Technology isn't the enemy. Nor is it anyone's responsibility to police my kids, nor is it anyone else's responsibility to raise my kids. Its my responsibility to shield my sons from seeing objectionable programming, teach them values, respect and morals.

My two year old is more polite than the other children in our neighborhood. He says thank you, please, may I have (insert item here), etc. You know why? Because my wife and I take the time to teach him. He's not shacked up in some daycare with minimum wage trolls who don't interact with him - he's at home, with my wife and she's teaching him how to be a respectful child... At least until he enters the public education system with children raised by lazy parents like you.

If you feel that society as a whole should be responsible for raising your children, then I feel sorry not only for your kids but society as a whole.

Parents are a lot less involved with their kids now than they were when I was growing up. As a result, children are a lot less respectful of adults and others in general. Its your kind of parenting and beliefs that governemnt needs to do your childrearing for you that leads to the degradation of society.

Re:Kazaa should be shut down

[wfberg]

I'm not trolling, I'm dead serious. I can assure you that when you have some kids of your own you'll understand me.

Your options are
1) don't have children
2) don't let your kids use the computer
3) don't let them use kazaa
4) use kazaa's filter option
5) educate your kids about approriate and inappropriate material (e.g. faces of death in the videostore, jack ass on mtv, top-shelf magazines, and on the internet) and behavior (e.g. copyright infringement). Foster an open atmosphere so your kids tell you when they run across anything that bothers them, rather than sneak around behind your back, or lie awake at night worrying about what they saw and what your reaction to hearing about it might be.

Summary of your options;
1) don't parent
2) don't parent
3) don't parent
4) don't parent
5) parent like a responsible adult.

Would you suggest banning the catholic faith because some of their clergy abused children? Or is it perhaps better to make sure that if your child is uncomfortable with any interaction with the world out there which it can't deal with, they will ask your guidance and help?

No shit, parenting is hard. Practice on pets. They don't use kazaa. If you're not ready for the fact that kids grow up and get to see the world, whether you like it or not, then wear a rubber.

Just in case....

[telstar]

In case the site gets slashdotted, I put a copy of the video up on Kazaa.

Pillory Hilary!

[Phoenix666]

OK, we all hate and loathe the RIAA and MPAA and we will bring them down. I think it's time to start planning for a post-RIAA world order.

First, and most fun, should come the war-crimes tribunal. Hilary Rosen, Jack Valenti, Congressmen Berman, Tauzin, Hatch, and Hollings, and all the top execs at the content companies should be put in stockades in public squares around the country so that music fans and citizens can throw CDs, cassettes, and excrement at them (sorry, triply redundant, that.). Then we put them in strait jackets, put them in rubber rooms, and force them to listen to N'Sync, Backstreet Boys, Britney Spears, Michael Jackson, and all of their terrible music until their ears bleed and they're reduced to piles of gibbering insanity. Then we'll give them a life sentence in a nice asylum where they can finger paint and watch Barney with expressions of childlike wonder.

Then we designate a national holiday to mark our liberation, to be celebrated by amateur musicians, thespians, and artists performing free in public plazas and parks across the land. We'll show movies outdoors against the sides of buildings, like in the old days, and have carnival booths where you can pay a nickel to take a whack at Lars and the Metallica boys. Ahhh, can you see it?