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Will Classic Games Disappear Forever?
Knightfall writes "Who doesn't remember pumping tons of quarters into games like Joust and Tron? I shudder at the thought of what could have become of that large quantity of money. Well, it seems remembering those games may soon be all that is left. As companies are dropping support, but not property rights to our old favorites, many are in danger of vanishing forever. There are a few trying to prevent this though. An article in Wired tells a little about it. I for one still find these games, on a pure gameplay level, better than most anything out there currently. What can we do to prevent them from no longer being available?"
>What can we do to prevent them from no longer being
>available?
Preserve them and actively play/"advertise them".
That's what I do.
And that what's a LOT of people are doing - www.vaps.org
PS. Emulator is *NOT* a substitute for a classic arcade game.
Problem: the roms are illegal to possess if you have no boards to run them from.
Solution: I dunno. You tell me.
And with some carpentry skills, some basic soldering skills, and an I-PAC, and some parts you can have a very authentic feeling cabinet to play them in. Fun!
Oh yeah, make sure to finish like a piece of furniture (use expensive lumber) so your wife lets you keep it in the house...
Solution: possess anyway and don't tell
Of course it runs NetBSD. BTC: 1NT7QvbetmANwaMzhpVL6
The CAPS project is starting with the Amiga, preserving everything it can. Not just the games, but archiving scans of the boxes and manuals as well. They are also storing the disks in a format which retains the copy protection of the original.
Many of the biggest games companies today started on the Amiga, so this history needs to be preserved. The CAPS project will be moving onto other formats later.
I used to work for one of those companies and I know that these days its heritage has largely been forgotten. It's obvious that the companies who created the games in the first place don't really care very much about anything other than the latest sale. Any attempt to preserve these games should be lauded.
Just look at the situation with the BBC who lost some early Dr.Who episodes and loads of Beatles footage because they didn't see the value in it at the time.
Of course ROMs for newer games after they went 3D are mostly uncommon since MAME doesn't really support all that yet. There's a gap there I guess that's in danger... somewhere after 2D and before what's currently in arcades right now.
I'd check your facts. MAME supports a LARGE number of 3d games in the TESTDRIVERs, not to mention older classic 3D games like I Robot, Hard Drivin, and more. Coupled with dedicated 3D system emulators like nebula, zinc, etc. the 3D systems are being steadily emulated despite the difficulties of dedicated DSPs and encryption systems.
In college in the mid-80's, the 'grill' in the dorm that was open in the evenings had a few machines. Joust was one of them. My roommate, who was a bit Obsessive-Compulsive got hooked on joust. He'd go in there as soon as they opened and play until they shut down. Relatively soon, he could play an entire night on a single quarter. After a few weeks, the machine disappeared and something really lame showed up in its place.
Never confirmed, but my floor was convinced that Cliff was responsible for them pulling the machine.
http://www.shockwave.com/sw/content/joust
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
You can use any of the Z-Machines available for Unix and Windows to play the Infocom gmaes. Infocom used a sort of interpreter, so you can play them on any computer that has a Z-Machine available for it.
Slashdot is a waste of time. I enjoy wasting time.
There are quite a few very successful classic game shows out there - like the Austin Game Expo that happened in late July. Link to Review.
As long as there are people like me, and the thousands of people that attend these shows, classic gaming will never die.
Video Game News, FAQs, etc
Blowing on your Nintendo cartridge really doesn't do anything, unless you have a pretty thick layer of dust on it.
:). Long term, dumping game ROMs *is* the only reliable way to save them, unless companies give out the original source, which has often been long lost. Presumedly you could use an FPGA or something to reproduce the exact original circuitry of the game system. Until TV standards change, that is :)
What actually happens is this: the original NES had a 'lock-out' function, wherein only licensed NES games would work on the console. The problem is, if the game wasn't seated PERFECTLY in the slot (a real bitch to get right with the front loading systems), there wasn't a good enough connection for the lock-out chip to be read, and thus, the infamous flashing NES display. Cartridge contacts oxidize/corrode mad fast, and after a couple of years most NES cartridges were a real pain to use. Blowing on the cartridge does sweet diddly for the most part, but what it does do is force you to remove and re-insert the cartridge many times into your deck. Eventually, you'll get it right and the game works.. at least in theory.
The solution? Dip a Q-tip in rubbing alcohol (isopropyl) (probably other solvents work too), and scrub the living hell out of the cartridge contacts. The end of the Q-tip will be almost black, that's how much crap is preventing you from playing your game.
I've ran through a dozen decks and over 400 games in the past 2 years, and I have yet to encounter a combination that doesn't work perfectly (and I do mean, on the first try) if the cartridge is cleaned enough.
Also contrary to popular myth, every other cartridge-based system is also suceptible to this. I've seen it with SNES, Genesis, Colecovision, Atari VCS, and even N64 games. It's just not usually so bad because the cartridge fits better - but once the contacts are all gunked up, you have the same problem. Yes, the same solution works.
Having said this, ROMs do unfortunately suffer from bitrot (the eventual loss of bit data from the ROM chip itself). Some estimate we're about to start seeing it on a large scale with the VCS, as it's approaching 30 years for some of its games. Eventually, the original ROMs simply won't be readable. Could be in the next couple of decades, could be a couple of centuries (it's kind of hard to test that length of time reliably
Endless arguments over trivial contradictions in books written by ignorant savages to explain thunder in the dark.
You're drastically off when you define abandonware. Abandonware games are games that are no longer actively sold or supported by their publisher (this is usually around 5 years). Abandonware is not restricted to games in the public domain (abandoned != public domain by any means). Oldwarez games are those that are over a year old. The biggest problem with most abandonware games lies not with the original developers, but with the EPA (formerly the IDSA), who go after abandonware sites simply because they have the power to, not because abandonware is causing any sort of real financial damage. The other major problem is with games that aren't owned by anyone (that is, games whose copyright was held by a company that has since folded, an author that has since died, etc). U.S. copyright law is terrible in this respect as said software doesn't enter the public domain until 75 years after the death of the author or 50 years after it was published if it was published by a corporation (iirc, those numbers may be a bit off, though the point still stands).
... still exists, albeit in new forms. Go to their website and find the "Play Classic Games" links (sorry about not posting a direct link, but I'm tired and they're doing lots of JS popups) and the info on their "Midway's Greatest Arcade Hits" pack for the GameBoy Advance. Sure, it's not the same as playing on a real arcade machine, but the games are at least still around.
It's 19:11:42. Do You Know Where Your Meat Body Is?
The classics will stay alive, as long as there are people out there who care about them.
This is evidenced in the dozens of emulators out there. Here's a small sample:
Stella (Atari)
FCE Ultra (Nintendo)
Freeze SMS (Sega Master System)
Gens(Genesis)
and, of course:
MAME (Every arcade game we know and love)
On the PC side, we have some very interesting projects:
AGI/SCI Remember all those old Sierra games? Well a few people were able to reverse engineer the interpreter language. The result is that you can now make your own Sierra games, and even take apart existing ones, look at the code, screens, etc, and even modify them if you want. Truly and old schooler's paradise.
SCUMM VM So times have changed, and you can't play your LucasArts games on whatever OS you happen to be running now? ScummVM will fix that. Compatibility is not 100% but give them time.
The people behind these projects are very dedicated to saving the classics. With these kinds of people around, we should have no worries about the games we loved so much fading into obscurity.
-R
Part of Disney's business model is the carefully scheduled re-release of their "classic" films. Buy withholding the films for a period of time and re-releasing them, they get a whole new audience that isn't yet jaded by the films.
Similarly, many classic video games are being re-released as web games or cell phone games.
If you were sane, you'd have archived all those floppies on a cd-rom. It's disquieting how many boxes fit on a single cd :)
BTW, there exist many free PC emalutors:
Weird thing about Qix boards: they have a serial port. With dual 6809 processors, I always wanted to put OS-9 or something on one. Oh, and a (checks closet) 6802 for sound--which had stereo capability, but that wasn't used from what we could tell. (You haven't really played Qix until you've tried it hooked to an in-circuit emulator. Try it with 3 Qix on the board, heh.)
One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.
Visit the site that champions the Public Domain Enhancement Act (HR2601) and write your Congresspeople (House, Senate) to support this bill. If these games are no longer commercially exploitable, the proponents of this bill believe it is unlikely the copyright holders will file the form and pay the low tax to retain copyright on the work. Maybe these games will eventually enter the PD where we can all legally share and modify them so we can play them on MAME.
Here's a FAQ, previous /. discussion, and another /. discussion.
Digital Citizen
Last year I was trying to reason with one of the higher level Managers at Nintendo USA regarding emulation and emulators. I was trying to persuade him to sanction the sale and development of an emulator that would allow the old Nintendo and N64 games to be played on a different platform.
He told me video games revenues are going to surpass Box-Office sales in the future and ONLINE gaming will probably become its own religion. This video game entertainment industry is worth billions and no one wants to see the old games around anymore since you might stop buying new games for a few weeks and revisit some of the classics. Can you imagine that? Someone might actually want to play an sweet classic game instead of a newer lame game? Think of all the new games you've tried/rented and how bad most of them suck. Most of the new games end up costing $20 or less within a month after release because they are so lame.
Here is Nintendo's Position on emulators they say it's ILLEGAL even if you OWN THE ROMS. Nintendo is really a sentimental bunch when it comes to retaining pieces of our childhood. I'd like to see someone test this in court, but they would probably lose.
Here is an excerpt from their LEGAL FAQ
Can I Download a Nintendo ROM from the Internet if I Already Own the Authentic Game?
There is a good deal of misinformation on the Internet regarding the backup/archival copy exception. It is not a "second copy" rule and is often mistakenly cited for the proposition that if you have one lawful copy of a copyrighted work, you are entitled to have a second copy of the copyrighted work even if that second copy is an infringing copy. The backup/archival copy exception is a very narrow limitation relating to a copy being made by the rightful owner of an authentic game to ensure he or she has one in the event of damage or destruction of the authentic. Therefore, whether you have an authentic game or not, or whether you have possession of a Nintendo ROM for a limited amount of time, i.e. 24 hours, it is illegal to download and play a Nintendo ROM from the Internet.
How Does Nintendo Feel About the Emergence of Video Game Emulators?
The introduction of emulators created to play illegally copied Nintendo software represents the greatest threat to date to the intellectual property rights of video game developers. As is the case with any business or industry, when its products become available for free, the revenue stream supporting that industry is threatened. Such emulators have the potential to significantly damage a worldwide entertainment software industry which generates over $15 billion annually, and tens of thousands of jobs.
What Does Nintendo Think of the Argument that Emulators are Actually Good for Nintendo Because it Promotes the Nintendo Brand to PC Users and Leads to More Sales?
Distribution of an emulator developed to play illegally copied Nintendo software hurts Nintendo's goodwill, the millions of dollars invested in research & development and marketing by Nintendo and its licensees. Substantial damages are caused to Nintendo and its licensees. It is irrelevant whether or not someone profits from the distribution of an emulator. The emulator promotes the play of illegal ROMs , NOT authentic games. Thus, not only does it not lead to more sales, it has the opposite effect and purpose.
How Come Nintendo Does Not Take Steps Towards Legitimizing Nintendo Emulators?
Emulators developed to play illegally copied Nintendo software promote piracy. That's like asking why doesn't Nintendo legitimize piracy. It doesn't make any business sense. It's that simple and not open to debate.
People Making Nintendo Emulators and Nintendo ROMs are Helping Publishers by Making Old Games Available that are No Longer Being Sold by the Copyright Owner. This Does Not Hurt Anyone and Allows Gamers to Play Old Favorites. What's the Problem?
The problem is that it's illegal. Copyrights
My understanding from studying articles on several game copyright and trademark lawsuits is that you can copy the idea of a game as long as you call it something different and produce everything yourself. Copying bitmaps and such from the original is definitely not allowed.
In that sense we'll always have the classics, legally.
Although some game companies, such as Hasbro, have been known to bully clone makers, by taking them to court, losing, and appealing over and over until the defendant is bankrupt.
In one bullying campaign, shareware and freeware sites were spidered for names containing "tris" and threatening emails were sent to webmasters telling them to remove the software or be sued, despite having lost every court case against every author they sued.
I've forgotten what I was replying to. I hope this isn't off topic.
But that link made me laugh so hard! I swear, I came *that* close to spewing all over my powerbook!
Hey, if you want to revisit the classics, get to Vegas quick for CGE '03!
http://www.cgexpo.com/
How to build a MAME cabinet in 24 hrs
If you wanna get rich, you know that payback is a bitch
it doesn't have any "classic arcade games", but the underdogs is a nice "classic" computer games repository (the majority of the games being for PC). and they claim all the games that are available for download are legal (the copywrite holder's are no longer ISDA members or something like that -- IANAL)