New Doom III Preview Illuminates

Thanks to EuroGamer for their new preview of id's Doom III from an Activision press event in the UK, where id lead designer Tim Willits and CEO Todd Hollenshead were demonstrating the latest build of the long-awaited FPS sequel. Hollenshead confirmed of the game: "We have no plans to release it this year", a new "physics patch" was shown (the writer suggests "the physics implementation seems to be quite young, suggesting it was 'bolted on' after the capabilities of the Source engine became apparent"), and the writer argues that "...for all Valve's fancy physics and cunning AI, the eye candy in Doom III is still a cut above." Update: 08/14 15:39 GMT by S : In a related story, HomeLanFed have initial impressions of the multiplayer Doom III modes, currently being demonstrated at QuakeCon in Dallas.

Comments

not really the argument you should use

[sweeney37]

"...for all Valve's fancy physics and cunning AI, the eye candy in Doom III is still a cut above."

Yeah! Who needs real life physics and amazing AI when I can have amazing graphics!

I'm looking forward to both games, but as we all know great graphics doesn't make a great game. Good story and good AI are what makes a good game a great one.

What's the story behind Doom? Oh, demons on Mars, ....again?

Mike

Re:not really the argument you should use

[Zathrus]

I'm much more interested in HL2 than D3 right now, which is a complete reversal from before E3, but some of the things shown in D3 demos still intrigue me.

IIRC, every single FPS to date has had strictly oriented players and monsters -- yes, you can go above someone if the map allows you, but you are still oriented in the same direction -- head toward sky, feet on ground. Some of the D3 footage has shown monsters crawling along walls, pipes, etc -- but it's not clear if this is actual gameplay or merely cut scenes. If it's gameplay it would add a whole new dimension to the game -- not as much as Quake did with it's true 3D environment, but still quite substantial.

I do expect HL2 to have the better AI and plot regardless, and to probably be the better game. Which one is the better engine will remain to be seen.

Re:not really the argument you should use

[TheOnlyCoolTim]

Play Natural Selection for Half-Life - the basic alien has the ability to crawl on walls and ceilings.

Tim

Re:not really the argument you should use

[fredrikj]

I'm looking forward to both games, but as we all know great graphics doesn't make a great game.

One word: immersion. Graphics do help a big deal in the case of a game like this.

Re:not really the argument you should use

[Godeke]

Hate to "me too" on this, but I have to. I enjoy ID's games, but they couldn't write a story and stick to it if someone strapped John into his rocket this morning and threatened to launch it unless his next game come with a plot less contrived than an A-Team reunion.

Half Life 2 *could* drop the ball, but I haven't seen any signs so far that they have. I look forward to the work of the guys who made the marine AI of grenade flushing, constantly mobile, devious death.

Re:not really the argument you should use

[syle]

You might have a point if it's cheif competitor had bad graphics, or lack of immersion. However, anyone who's seen HL2's demo movies can tell you that's not the case. In fact, I'd argue that 10% better graphics is actually LESS immersive than realistic physics, and good AI.

I was one of those people who played HL1 on hard mode, and was scared shitless when I first realized how smart the marines were when they showed up. I didn't care for one second about the number of polygons they had, all I cared about was that there was a squad of marines 3 yards away, they were working as a team to kill me, and I had to think of something fast.

No scary monster who runs straight at you, no matter how well rendered, can make that kind of immersion.

Re:not really the argument you should use

[ziggles]

People put too much emphasis on story in games. There is no formula for what makes a great game. Some games are great because of the way they tell a story, some games are great because of the gameplay, some games are great because of the atmosphere, etc. Just because HL1 was a great game and told a decent story, doesn't mean every game that wants to be great should copy that.

What the hey...

[Lurch Kimded]

My view is this you need the Quakes, the Doom's and the Serious Sam's for that fun, "I'm bored and want five minutes of pick up and put down gaming" moments.

But also we need the Half Life's, DuesEx's and Thiefs for the long term evening of game play for the more in depth and absorbing game play.

Each (Doom3, Half life 2) each have their place, and each will be mine... HUZZAH!... ...after I get the 300 together for a new grpahic card ;-)

Re:What the hey...

[Have Blue]

The point of the article is that Doom III is *trying* to compete with Half-Life 2. It's not just a dumb shooter anymore, it's full of scripted events and sidekicks and so on. However, whether it can actually surpass HL2 in these areas is very much in doubt, and the changes tend to make it not as good a dumb shooter.

There they go again....

[saden1]

for all Valve's fancy physics and cunning AI, the eye candy in Doom III is still a cut above.

Valve has a ship date and they don't. I suggest they STFU and let the people decide. As always, the publisher is at it again, hyping a game that won't show up on the radar for many months.

New Doom III Preview Illuminates??

[Dr. Bent]

Illuminates nothing! I can't see anything but dark in those screenshots. Turn up the gamma, guys!

So dark....

[AtariAmarok]

Getting a little tired of games like this in which just about everything is either gray, black, or brown with brightness ranging from dark to very dark. (and for that matter, shows like "Enterprise" that look similar).

We've come along way from "Yar's Revenge", but at least those games had a decent contrast and visibility that seems to have been lost along the way.

Did someone forget to pay the electric bill?

This whole saga has been interesting ...

[Anonymous Coward]

First, I'm glad to hear someone recognize that Doom III and HL will both have their place. However, I'd like to note that there are benefits of Doom III beyond being a quickie of sorts. Although graphics do not make a great game, improvements in graphics are always welcome, and I'm glad to see Id pushing the envelope, once again, with graphics. Someone needs to do it. There is always a need for better graphics.

And who knows? Maybe Doom III have more of a storyline than we think.

This whole saga of Doom III versus HL is fascinating to me. First everyone was drooling over Doom III, then over HL, and sometime since then there has been this reversal of opinion among some that HL is the game to look forward to, not Doom III.

The author of the article suggests that the delay in Doom III is due to the HL release--e.g., that the physics patch was added on in response to HL. I've never heard of this before. Does anyone who follows Doom III discussions know if this is the case? It seems reasonable, but also a bit silly in some ways. For example, the author admits that, even given the physics and AI in HL, the graphics are better in Doom III--so why would Id feel threatened? To be honest, that's the way I've always sort of seen it developing--Id develops awesome graphics, Valve does awesome AI. For this reason, there's a part of me that finds the idea of Id being threatened by HL a bit strange, if realistic nonetheless.

Finally--although this is more or less offtopic--I have to say that the game I'm looking forward to the most isn't Doom III or HL--it's the next Deus Ex. The gameplay in Deus Ex is far beyond either in my opinion, even if it doesn't have the graphics or AI.

Re:This whole saga has been interesting ...

[PainKilleR-CE]

The author of the article suggests that the delay in Doom III is due to the HL release--e.g., that the physics patch was added on in response to HL. I've never heard of this before. Does anyone who follows Doom III discussions know if this is the case? It seems reasonable, but also a bit silly in some ways.

For all of the things we have heard out of id about Doom 3, we never (afaik) heard anything about a new physics engine in the game, or any plans to move forward in physics from where id's previous games were.

For example, the author admits that, even given the physics and AI in HL, the graphics are better in Doom III--so why would Id feel threatened? To be honest, that's the way I've always sort of seen it developing--Id develops awesome graphics, Valve does awesome AI. For this reason, there's a part of me that finds the idea of Id being threatened by HL a bit strange, if realistic nonetheless.

There are a couple of things at play here. One is that Valve actually wrote this engine themselves. Before, companies (including Valve) took id's engine and improved the AI, graphics, maybe even physics, and that's all fine, because they still payed id (the exception being those that used Unreal or LithTech engines). Now you see people like Ion Storm ripping out the physics engines in their licensed graphics engines and inserting the physics engine that Valve is using (which is licensed from another company), and I'm sure Valve has a deal that allows them to sublicense the physics with the rest of their engine (so, for instance, the new Vampire game would be able to use the physics engine without buying that second license because they would get the license from Valve).

In other words, if companies are ripping the physics out of engines already to license this technology, they would be doing the same with id's engine, unless id had a comparable (or better) physics engine. If Valve's license is cheaper than id's and includes the physics they want, then it's quite possible a number of developers would take the graphics hit or enhance the graphics engine themselves (look at how many id licenses change the graphics engine, not a large percentage of them, but still a good number of the licensed games). I think id sees this as a requirement, both in terms of the game, and in terms of the licensing prospects of the engine.

Halflife jealousy?

[evilhayama]

This article makes it seem like Id is trying to make Doom 3 into a "Better Halflife". Doom 3 was very similar to HL1 in premise to start with, and now this Physics Patch seems to be a direct response to the amazing physics stuff in HL2.

It seems pretty lame that they're adding this sort of thing now, at the end of the development cycle where it probably can't be integrated into the game properly. Id should let their game stand on it's own as a separate entity.

oh no

[AzraelKans]

Damn! it looks like ID really freaked out after seing half life 2 completely stealing the E3 show this year. Doom 3 already has a nice physics engine (check the last e3 quicktime movie) it has ragdoll physics rigid bodies and even some fluid physics (for blood) but it doesnt "show off" as much as the one in half life 2, maybe thats what they have decided to change that. Actually I wouldnt mind at all if they released the game as it is now, and then release some expansions or mods that make heavier use of the physics or AI. Oh well, I guess is for the better, it doesnt look like half life 2 isnt shipping anytime soon neither. So Im going to miss those two by xmas, is just not going to be the same without them. Oh and dont consider this as flamebait or something but come on people, I mean yes, Doom 3 is about shooting monsters around in dark alleys, yes it has been done a 1000 times everybody and their sister has played that. It doesnt matter, Doom3 features the most realistic graphics and psychological horror effects ever seen. It may sound silly but in this particular case graphics DO make the difference (combined with good tempo and real time movies and sounds) they create a realistic ambience of fear and dread. I saw the E3 demo and it puts the entire silent hill series to shame. Actually this is the only game which has caused me to feel physically disgusted by the disturbing scenes (no I didnt got fps sickness). It is that realistic, truly horrifying, wait and see. So if you are not interested just because it plays exactly like good old doom guess what? it is doom! so no one cares ( at least no doom fan that is)

Who's Following Who?

[Gefd]

From where I sit (and play), ever since Quake 1, or perhaps back as far as doom 1,
everybody else has been playing catch-up with Id. Most of the time falling short by
a long shot. With a few notable exceptions.

After reading the article, it seems now that Id is playing a little catch up themselves.

Quote;

Tellingly, the physics implementation seems to be quite young, suggesting
it was 'bolted on' after the capabilities of the Source engine became apparent.

Admittedly this is the opinion of the author of the article, but interesting none the less.

Though from what I've seen, everyone else is still playing catchup on the graphic's front.
But when you sit back and have a look at whats in store for the (hopefully) not too
distant future, you can't help looking forward to finally sitting down and playing these
games.

Physics just getting added?

[delus10n0]

Huh? I'm confused. The alpha that was leaked months ago had physics in it, such as shooting the boxes near the start (they would fall to the floor and tumble) or shooting the lamp swinging in the hallway (it would flip around, throwing light and shadows everywhere)

Unless they're revamping the engine or something to compete with Havok's physics engine? (The one used in HL2)

I'm lost.

I still think Doom3 _and_ Half-Life 2 will be awesome games. Cinematic games are the future.

To me it's all about immersiveness.

[2TecTom]

/I've heard all the trash talk about Id so many times. Seems to me that everybody just wants to defend the games they choose to play. Personally, I think it's simply great that there are so many games out there. Anyone who doesn't recognize that different games add to and enrich each other and our experiences, is, perhaps, not looking deeply enough into the matter. I would suggest that if people need to defend anything, it's because they don't believe it to be strong enough on it's own, or, perhaps, they aren't as self assured as they'd like to be./

Now, my point is that John Carmack and Id have created many hours of believable experiences for vast numbers of people. Furthermore, even if you've never played an Id game, ???!, the other games you've played owe something to the development of immersive, believable enviroments. The main influence on OpenGL was from Carmack, and the main influence on DirectX was OpenGL, at least as far as I can see.

Anyways, I'm looking forward to Doom 3 as I do to any Id game. Honestly, this isn't vapourware and I don't mind waiting for Id, as far as I'm concerned, they've earned the respect.

Scarier than Silent Hill? I think not.

[danro]

I saw the E3 demo and it puts the entire silent hill series to shame.

Except that in Doom 3 you'll be a serious, gun-slinging badass.

In Silent Hill 2 on the other hand you start out unarmed, unskilled, and when you get your first weapon it's not a gun, not even a knife.
...it's a friggin' piece of wood.
When you _finally_ get a gun you find out you shoot like a little girl.
Oh yeah, and there's almost no bullets.

That game is some of the scariest shit I ever played, and I rue the day I bought it.
I still haven't gotten very far, mostly due to the fact that I can't play alone at night (seriously).
It's scary almost to the point of unplayable.

The worst part is I can't even sell it and get my money back because ...it's too good.
So the box just sits there on it's shelf and sort of stares at me.
Actually even that is kind of creepy.

One key fact

[Rethcir]

There's one key thing to consider here people, when it comes to the doom vs half life BS I see every time Doom3 is mentioned anywhere:

IT'S NOT A FRICKING CONTEST.

Sure both of these engine are going to be licensed or whatever, but there is NO REASON why you can't just get and enjoy them both. I don't see either of these companies' fortunes depending on out-selling the other one's product. Both of these games look like they will be a spectacular diversion from the total dreck we have seen on PC for the past year or two. If it wasn't for these two games (and FFXI and LO:MAC) on the horizon, I would not have built a game-oriented computer, and just further built up my console collection. So I say wait and see, the better game will be judged by gaming history, and we will all be happy whether we play one or both of these excellent looking titles.