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Linux on Laptops Manufacturer Report Card Updated
wehe writes "The Linux on Laptops Manufacturer Report Card
was updated. The changes are based on some of the criticisms the
first announcement at SlashDot has got.
A matrix of Original Equipment Manufacturers - OEM relations
was added together with tips and tricks how to identify the original laptop manufacturer. Also a list of
Linux laptop and PDA resellers was added.
Unfortunately even in our times of Linux success, support by laptop manufacturers
is seldom, or if provided not much helpful. Though the marketing departments of
some major manufacturers have announced Linux support for their laptops sometimes, it
was not developed or silently dropped. Because of the rapid development
(every manufacturer creates new models almost every three months) and the specific hardware of
mobile computer devices and accessories (see
Linux Mobile Guide for details),
it is important to have current and reliable information about their Linux compatibility.
A current example is Intel`s new Centrino(TM)
technology. Though there are many
Linux laptop installation reports
available already, Intel still does not provide full Linux support yet.
Note: the URL of the original "Linux on Laptops Manufacturer Report Card" has
changed from MobiliX to TuxMobil, because of severe trademark trouble
with Asterix and Obelix, as reported on
SlashDot."
Just FYI for those buying a laptop --
The "Radeons" that come with most new HP/Compaq laptops aren't really radeons. They are "Radeon IGP320/340" chips.
These -do not- work with the radeon 3d driver. To repeat: if you buy these laptops, you'll only get 3d support under windows. There is -no- 3d support under linux.
HP, Compaq, and ATI have all stonewalled on the issue. Getting support on this issue from any of them is useless. Heck, the only reason 2D works is because good folks in the community made it happen.
The bottom line is if you want accelerated 3D, look elsewhere.
I've found that PCMCIA is always a pain when it comes to laptop linux installs... anyone know of any really good resources on this?
R-
Hard loop..... huh?
Dynamic Designs
You pay a premium price, there is no driver for the integrated 802.11b device and seperate 54 Mbps 802.11g devices are plentily available nowadays...
I don't mean this to be flame bait but... If you need *nix on a laptop, go buy a power/ibook and fink the tools you need.
Using an older version of the driver (sorry, I don't remember which one) worked. It's not perfect, but they do the job.
Just an FYI for anyone else who may be experiencing similar problems with their Dell.
"Ask not what your country can do for you." --John F. Kennedy
Isthe only distro that dectects my laptop's hardware very well. SuSE and RedHat Severn work good as well, but I'm still waiting for Drivers for the ATI 3D RAGE mobility card on it. My laptop is a SONY VAIO PCGFX-401, it somehow "convenitently" had a spare 6 GB partition where I installed Linux on.
Nero-burning ROM for Linux!
I am using my laptop to type this. It has Linux installed.
The worse problem: video. But after downloading the driver everything worked fine (Via TwisterK)
Network - no problem
Sound Card - no problem
Now, not everybody gets lucky. I had a friend who took some weeks and several distros to get his LCD panel to work... Video Card - Mobility Radeon
The funniest thing is that he payed 50000 more than I did...
how long until
Hmmm...Trademark trouble because of the sound alike of "Mobilix" and "Obelix".
I know. And now, they are quite certain that the "Oldsmobil" trademark
detentor will just let they walk away with "Tuxmobil".
I am afraid that every new name, or domain one whishes to use in the near future will have to be 12 charcters long, with at least 2 digits, and randomly generated.
-><- no
When time for an upgrade came I thought: screw games, I'll go with whatever I get for mac if any. I want it mobile, no more desktops, basta. Should I spend > 1500 for a machine and still have to boot MS to get what I paid for? Should I struggle with poorly designed hardware strung together by a hideous bunch of hackish miniport drivers? Shall I risk frying my expensive HW because linux can't help but drop the towel because of some manufacturer's poorly standardized, buggy bios implementation of ACPI? No. ;-)
So I held my breath and bought an Apple. I miss linux though.
Mi domando chi à il mandante di tutte le cazzate che faccio - Altan
I just installed Mandrake 9.1 on a T20 without a hitch. Once you peel of the "designed for Windows" sticker on the case, you have a laptop completely free of Microsoft since there is no Windows key on the keyboard!
Sound waves should be free!
The "cheap" laptops tend to include bargain basement software modems, integrated lower-end video chipsets and the like.
Software modems are always going to be a problem, one alternative there is to simply get a PC card modem that linux supports.
Graphics chipsets for example are also going to be a problem simply because even though there may be good linux support for desktop chipsets/cards like the GeForce4MX 440 (which is what I have), getting the manufacturers to support the laptop and "integrated" chipsets is harder.
Although there is an answer to the whole display drivers issue. Move to a 3-part driver. Part 1 would be like the miniport driver on windows and would contain all the actual low-level driver support. This bit would reside in the kernel and would ideally be Open Source or at the very least have "open glue code" like the current NVIDIA drviers do. This part would also include enough to get text mode going properly.
Part 2 would be like the DDI driver on windows and would convert the data from x-windows, svgalib or whatever else into the cards native format. This could sit in userland space and wouldnt be loaded until a graphical app was loaded. It would talk to the kernel portion via a special call that would enable 2-way communication between both halves in a way that is driver-specific but at the same time independant from changes to the kernel.
Part 3 would then be the 3d portion of the driver and would be written to work specificly with OpenGL.
I bought my first iBook in the fall of '01, and am now on my second. OS X + iBook = bliss. Occasionally I'll look at Sony's newest bit of eye candy and start to drool, then I tell myself that my os choises are Linux or XP and I get over it. Seriously Linux is good, but OS X is just better. I haven't had to hand edit a system file since 10.2, I'm hardly ever in Terminal anymore. Now if they could just put vi command mode in Hydra I'd be a happy camper.
What if it is just turtles all the way down?
Why randomly? Just use one of your corporate IPv6 address and you are fine for at least one more centure.
Less is more !
Linksys 802.11g cards (and the new version of their 802.11b PCI card) don't work in linux. The chipset manufaturer, Broadcom, is holding back specifications on the card. If you want 802.11g in linux, the best solution is the D-Link card, or the Netgear one. Both use the Intersil Prism GT chipset. Intersil is very open about their design, and supports the development of open source drivers for Linux and other operating systems. Even if Broadcom were to open up, Intersil is more likely the company you would be wanting to give money to.
Still, drivers for the Broadcom chipset would be nice, so take a minute to sign the petition.
I got a formal response back from Intel to my inquiry about the availability of Centrino and they said they will not be releasing drivers - EVER.
The article seems to imply that this will happen by saying Intel hasnt released them "yet", so I wanted to clear this up.
In response to the post just above mine, who wondered what the appeal of integrated wlan was: this thing is a cool drink of water compared to the good old days of dongles, and even compared to the current days of wireless cards sticking an inch out of the side of the notebook begging to be broken off.
I had just assumed that drivers would just be a matter of time, as I bought my Dell "Centrino" just about 2 weeks after the debut. works great in windows =/
A year spent in artificial intelligence is enough to make one believe in God.
I notice that a number of the laptop manufacturers have product listings on their websites, but do any of them make their products available more or less directly, rather than having to go through Dell or Sony? I seem to remember someone at a LAN party a few years back showing up with something that looked a lot like a Dell Inspiron, but it had no major name badging anywhere, and he said that it was an OEM laptop.
You can never go home again... but I guess you can shop there.
Linux on laptops is VERY relevant when you are on the road and in need of a portable PC. Personally I do not want to drag a desktop with me to set up in every motel room, and at the same time I also want to work on the same platform that I do all of my other work on.
-Cnik
I want a laptop to run Linux on, what is the best sub-400 (about $640) laptop to run Linux on?
I bought an averatec laptop and got everything working great on it including 3d acceleration. I bought the laptop at best buy for $549. I was worried about it at first because of it being so cheap.
Oh god do I hear you. I've been up since yesterday 3:00 pm (that was a nap, not a full sleep), and I got a full day of work... eep!
;)
must... get.... coffee....
and no, it IS 11:00 am now...
This Guy has an interesting writeup of how he got his Dell 600m to work in linux.
I have the same laptop, but im running Win XP Pro for now.
If we really want Linux on laptops, now is the time to make our wishes ( and buying power ) known. It is well known that IBM is promoting Linux, but on its own terms, where the can get the most bang-profit-market share for the investment. The Linux community should let IBM know that it can ONLY expect our support if IBM supports Linux on ALL its products ( hardware and software ). After all HP is starting to cosy up to Linux ( and maybe even Dell ). If I can get a legacy ( M$ ) free, fully supported, laptop with my favorite distro pre installed from HP, I'm more likely to recommend their servers and desktops for our company. I'll scratch your back if you scratch mine.
Linux is surely available for Macintosh hardware. Yellow Dog Linux, from Terrasoft, is a port of Red Hat specifically designed for the Apple line of hardware.
In fact, you can purchase Apple gear directly from TerraSoft with a dual boot of OS X and YDL at no extra charge, and maintain the original Apple warranty.
I haven't used YDL myself, since I'm happy with the terminal in OS X--but my understanding is that, since, like Apple, they only have to support a specific line of computer hardware, that everything that comes with an Apple machine works out of the box, ie the modem, FireWire, etc.
--
$tar -xvf
The much-hyped Alienware laptops are actually made by a compny (can't remember the name) that are also sold as Sager's for much less, and the Sager's can be bought without an OS. However, they don't come in fruity colors like the Alienware.
Sager laptop
Alienware
Cnet user reviews (an funny mix of people pointing out that you can get the Sager for cheaper, and Alienware fans who can't seem to understand that)
I have blog like everyone else
I wish that they would come out with recomendations for what to buy and not to buy. linuxprinting did that and it made it easy to decide what not to buy ( no canon, or lexmark home for me ). I also noticed that support got better on other printers.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
How about a dedicated laptop linux distribution? So you don't have to choose all the individual drivers for the various hardware of you notebook. Instead you would just choose the manufacturer and model e.g. "Acer Travelmate 340T" and everything would be set.
What do you think?
You just like paying 5x as much for a 650MHz UltraSPARC.
Ever wonder why you have to email them for a quote? Because they are extremely over priced.
PowerPC 970 Apple Powerbook. That's what I'm waiting for. Until then I'll stick with what I've got (12" 900MHz iBook, 1.13GHz PIII Inspiron) and be happy.
Sir I suggest you check yourself into the nearest mental illness clinic as soon as possible.
The parent's 100% correct about 3d support.
:).
Then again, it's a laptop. I didn't exactly purchase it to play Doom 3.
My HP (ze4229ca) was a dream to install Linux on, really. Easier than many desktops. The only things I haven't got working on it (besides the 3d) are the modem (don't use it), and my wireless card (stupid Dlink ac100x card). Beyond that, putting RedHat on it was dead simple. Just use the generic VESA driver for video and boom - a nice, zippy Linux laptop.
Considering I can't even get Windows 2000 to INSTALL on it, let alone driver support, I'd say it gets a passing grade from me. It's been saving my butt this year during school; I can do my programming assignments anywhere (yes, our homework is to code in C in Linux
Endless arguments over trivial contradictions in books written by ignorant savages to explain thunder in the dark.
Seeing that site made me cream my pants. THANK YOU!
I think they mainly want to kill OS9 so they don't have to develope 2 drivers for all their new equipment and to get mac developers making stuff for their new OS.
I pretty certain every piece of hardware on Apple's laptops are supported(802.11, modem, firewire, USB), with the exception of NVIDIA 3D cards, but ATI cards are fine and Apple generally uses ATI cards in their laptops.
GO ATI for releasing specs! I'm not buying another NVIDIA card until they either release specs for their chips or release a true open source driver(the current NVIDIA driver is a basically a binary that has source for the hooks to the kernel)
Get yourself a great deal on a new, but overstock, IBM Thinkpad at the IBM Authorized Ebay store.
Your dealing directly with Big Blue (you pay by credit card thru IBM's secure site), the laptops are brand new with full warranties, and the models are just a couple of steps behind their top of the line models. I have a Thinkpad X22, and everything works with Debian, even 3d acceleration.
The laptops they auction are heavily discounted, and many have a Buy It Now price for haggle free buying.
Also,check out IBM's Global Financing site for refurbished computers and laptops. Great way to get and older Thinkpad that is sure to work with Linux.
A laptop with linux preinstalled ruins the linux experience.
Erasing the drive immediately after a laptop purchase, repartitioning, installing manually, recompiling the kernel solving all the problems which may arise is one of the pleasures of linux experience. Please dont take this from us!.
This is not a joke. I am just an average, normal user. I am not a developer, programmer or IT professional,but a theoretical physicist. I've been using linux on laptops since 1994 on intel as well as Macs, and I would never buy a linux laptop.
Probably been said already but Knoppix is the ultimate way to test a notebook for Linux compatibility. It doesn't cost anything to go to a store and try it out on one of their demo machines. If you can't test or they don't have the machine try to go the Apple route as another poster said. I personally love the iBuddie 901 DeskNote I have. NewEgg.com used to sell them but no longer does.
Everytime you look at porn a devil gets their horns.
What really needs to be worked on is not just a laptop that runs Linux but laptops that feature the completely open firmware of LinuxBIOS.
One of the final hurdles in open firmware for laptops is having support for the "system/keyboard scan controllers". Closed source offerings include:
Insyde Software
Phoenix
The keyboard scan, power managment (power buttons, cover open/closed, battery charger supervision) on a laptop is typically done separate from the cpu and chipset with a 16 or 32 bit micro (typically by SMSC, Renasas or Fujitsu) with its own firmware with lots of GPIO and keyscan I/O. These controllers are generally tied in with the SMbus for SPD, system management (temp & Voltage monitors) and FLASH ROM BIOS write enables.
Has anyone come across any open source projects that have started work on this?
Quidquid latine dictum sit altum viditur
I bought three Clevo Notebooks last year without any OS preinstalled, then installed Debian Linux myself. The machines work fine. I also have several Sony C1 and a Sony U1, all with Debian Linux (my currently preferred distribution). However, every time, it's at least a few days of work and searching the web.
Just a few days ago, I noticed this offer from Lycoris/Toshiba:
http://www.lycoris.com/press/portege.php
Sounds interesting. It's a nice Toshiba Portege 3500 with Linux preinstalled. I hope Lycoris has all/most drivers etc. as GPL, especially the modem, graphics card, wifi, touchpad.
Any comments about this offer? Lycoris Desktop L/X?
I've been quite successful installing Redhat 7.2, 8.0 and 9.0 on an IBM Thinkpad T22. My only complaints are that my serial Palm cradle doesn't seem to connect. Otherwise - display, video adapter (ATI Rage) and all other ports are working fine. Ok, well, the built-in winmodem doesn't work, but I expected that. I've even gotten a wireless NIC from Micro$oft installed and working.
One meaningless complaint is the lack of connectors from Ximian for Exchange 5.5 (POP isn't sufficient for me)...
But how do you convince Dell they need to release a BIOS update? I've spent hours on the phone with Dell tech support (located in India) trying to convince them my problem could be fixed by a BIOS update. One guy tried to convince my it was by design, another tried to get me to reinstall Windows, then wanted me to send my laptop in for repair (I had already told him 2 identical laptops have the same problem, running Win2k or Linux, and the last tech support person I talked to had reproduced it on his laptop).
I've tried asking for supervisors, asking for 2nd level support, asking for them to escalate this call, but each person refused. Most of the people I've talked to can barely speak English (every time I read my service tag number, they ask "B as in browel?" - I have no idea what word they're actually trying to say: brawl, bowel, brown, bravo???). One person took my email address, said she'd look into the problem, and mail me as soon as she got any information - that was 3 months ago.
I had to call Dell's "customer care line" before tech support would even talk to me, because I had to update the registered name/address on my laptop (it was a gift). I had to wait until the next work day, and I spent 45 minutes on hold before talking to anyone, but I was amazed to talk to someone who speaks perfect English. Unfortunately, that line is unable provide tech support, he could only give me the 1-800 number which connects you to India.
On top of all of this, Dell's tech support forum won't send web pages to me because I use an "unsupported browser" (I've tried recent versions of Mozilla, Mozilla Firebird, and Galeon) - I can't even read the forums, let alone post to them. And if I have Javascript off, I can't even get that far.
The laptop itself works great, except for the video card's 3D acceleration, and the winmodem (both would require binary drivers, which I won't install). But because of my tech support experience, I will never even consider buying anything from Dell. Maybe when I'm board, I'll phone each of Dell's 1-800 numbers, try to complain about tech support and/or contact someone who can get a BIOS update, and waste some more of Dell's money.
Another thing to note is that they switch chipsets without changing the model number (many manufacturers do this). Sometimes they even use the same FCC ID (is that legal?).
The new WG511 (v3) will be an Atheros card, which requires a binary driver in Linux, so be careful if you're looking for a PrismGT card.
Is there a list of laptops that work, or must one click on ahundred manufacturer links looking for a hit?
I doubt the veracity of that document. The URL is a google cache of a server running at the ip 216.239.41.104. A reverse DNS lookup shows the hostname to be h206-221-245-118.gtconnect.net. A whois on gtconnect.net reveals that they are a Toronto based telecom company. Most likely, that document was originally hosted on a server running on a residential DSL or 56K line. It's likely that it's forged.
Sigh, I guess Gateway is no longer a major enough player to warrant inclusion in the survey ...
RH 8 and 9 installed perfectly on my 400 series, except for the winmodem. Earlier variants of the winmodem chip seem to have linux drivers, so maybe it will work someday.
Not a bad looking machine. My main reasons for buying the machine I did was lack of windows, weight, and cost. Too bad they bundle windows with the 1945.
Everytime you look at porn a devil gets their horns.
Agreed, but I'm damned if I can figure-out how they do so when it's available without hard-drive, though...
Actually, it's the screen that'd do it for me: 1400x1050 is really nice...
( and the ability to choose the drive: Seagate for quiet, Samsung for cheap, Hitachi Deskstar for performance or Western Digital for huge... yeah... )
Messages to/for me ( in me journal )
Good point. It would be tough to have win installed with no HD. The nice thing about the a901 is that it came with ThizLinux. Worst distro I've ever used, but it let me know that the hardware worked with Linux. The only thing I haven't been able to get going with other distros is the modem and that isn't a big deal. The screen sounds sweet though!
Everytime you look at porn a devil gets their horns.