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Carriers Might Profit From Cell Number Portability
Makarand writes "Carriers that are adding cell-number portability fees to your monthly
cell phone bills (while fighting against actually implementing the requirement) may actually rake in profits from these levies as the total amounts collected will be more than the projected costs of meeting the FCC's
number portability requirements. Although federal law requires that such fees be 'just and reasonable', it
does not require reporting of their actual expenses. Consumer advocates feel that
the number portability verification processes required are similar to those used by long-distance phone companies when a customer switches from one service provider to another and there is little reason to believe that expenses to meet portability requirements should vary widely among carriers and be so excessive as to bring profits for the carriers."
is this supposed to be surprising or something ?
We're talking about private corporations trying to make more profit after all.
"Although federal law requires that such fees be 'just and reasonable', it does not require reporting of their actual expenses."
That pretty much sounds like giving the cell phone corporations carte blanche.
The portable cell numbers came to use in Finland just a month ago. The result was a furious fight between the operators fighting for customers: free radio phones, DVD players etc. if you became their customer. But then one of the operators realized it's better off to give benefits for existing customers. They lowered prices for the weekend and started a campaign saying "Our customers are doing better". I think that's the right way to go. I don't want to be switching my cell phone operator all the time. So in the end, customers really did benefit from the change.
What makes me ill about the FCC allowing them to charge for this is that we're still going to be paying that $1 "number portability fee" 20 years down the road when all the carriers have long since paid off the expenses of "upgrading" their networks. Does anyone know if there's a date set for when they can't stop milking us on this anymore???
Darned tropical millipede! What's it doing in our apartment?
This just in....companies out to make a profit!! :)
;)) and is ready to impose regulations if they really get carried away.
Ok, seriously, this feels like just another article to get everyone all riled up over "the man". Yes, it seems outrageous what companies like Sprint and NextTel are charging. Does this mean that they aren't just trying to cover their costs and possible pot a bit of profit off of a new service offered to customers? Ok, maybe it seems like they want to make an excessive profit. Don't like it? Well, it looks like the gov't already has a watchful eye on them (if that's any comfort
Everything a company does can't be done just at cost. A company needs to make a profit to be able to fully survive. It looks like Verizon is able to recoup these costs thanks to existing reserves or they are willing to take the hit for increased customer satisfaction which is great to see. It's so great to see that if I was in the States, I would probably switch over to Verizon as soon as my contract with one of those other companies was up (or sooner!).
To be terribly surprised by anything like this. Just wait until the portability measures are implemented and forgotton too. Don't be surprised if the charges are still there, especially since they are effectively 'hidden' from view.
I live in Germany where we have that feature for some while. One problem now is that I call a number that "belongs" to the same provider that I'm using, so I think that I do a call inside the providers net (which usually is cheap), but in fact the one that I call has switched to another provider and my call costs much more than I expect. :-(
Verizon has been collecting "number portability fund" fees on my land-line for years. Can I migrate my number to another carrier? Hell no! Can I get my fees waived/refunded? Sorry, but those funds go into a common pool to provide number portability. But I can't move MY number! Sorry, but your number is in an area where number portability is not offered...
The only way to win this game is not to play - I canceled my second line earlier this year. Take that Verizon!
... here in the Netherlands you only pay about 20 Euro *once* for the number portation to your new GSM provider.
"Under the spreading chestnut tree, I sold you and you sold me."
1) cell phone number portability
2) profit!
In australia there was a big thing about the largest carrier preventing number porting. Our consumer watchdog (ACCC) got onto the case and made things start to happen which was good for us consumers!
Here is a report detailing what the ACCC requested from the ACA (australian communications authority) to look into number porting for australian carriers.
We played dungeons and dragons for 3 hours.....then i was slain by an elf
Here in the Netherlands cell phone providers have been forced to let customers keep their existing phone numbers from competitors for a few years now. They don't charge extra for it (I don't think they're allowed, the mobile phone business is very strictly regulated over here), but they do have a tendency to take much longer to port your number than they should. I think it works moderately well, prices aren't exactly low but I think they'd be signigicantly higher without mandatory number portability.
Has Verizon wavered in their stance in the past two months, or are they just trying to leave themselves some wriggle room?
Whenever the offence inspires less horror than the punishment, the rigour of penal law is obliged to give way...
I was thinking of changing carriers because my (Telus) plan was a real ripoff. Then I went saltwater flyfishing and forgot that my cell phone was in my coat pocket. It solved the problem. I have found that if my voice mail, e-mail and pager will not suffice for the caller then the person calling was not worth talking to anyway. I always return calls from real people and finally realised that the ones that are desperate to get something for nothing in a hurry use the cell to call you. If it is that important people will get through. Cell phones for some people are a huge waste of money. They were for me. The next time I think about getting a cell I will just go fishing instead!
OH THE SHAME I fell off the wagon and use sigs again!
Ok, number portability... this is cool... I have to say keeping your old number when switching carriers, this is just spiffy. Paying a fee for it... well might as well, you are nickled and dimed on this issue anyway... not a big thing.
I live in the States, while I mobile use isn't quite up there with the rest of the world, we already have had create quite a few extra area codes. That pesky issue of running out of seven digit phone numbers.
What I want is a system where by you actually keep your freaking landline number, and dial a diffrent prefix to hit the users mobile or fax/data device.
Now that would be what I call real number portability!
There is no sanctuary. There is no sanctuary. SHUT UP! There is no shut up. There is no shut up.
Sounds like they're up to their dirty old tricks again. But then again, what are we to expect?
Why not just have your land line call forward to your cell phone, and tell people to call your land line number? You can switch the # you're forwarding to whenever you get a different cell.
In the Netherlands we already have had that system in place for years.
Our normal land lines have prefixes for the major cities, such as:
Rotterdam - 010
Amsterdam - 020
Utrecht - 030
GSM, buzzers/pagers, and such were using 06 prefixes. Sexlines and info numbers with costs per minute/conversation are 0900 (used to be 06 as well), and free informational phonenumbers (toll-free) are 0800.
Number portability for mobile phone numbers has been regulated in the Netherlands for a while now due to OPTA. If a provider has its services down for a certain percentage in a month the OPTA will fine the appropriate provider.
Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai
With number portability in a free market, the greedy actors are exposed really fast.
There is also no fee for porting here, the only fee is an optional (for the company) connection fee. The very notion of having a fee is absurd in a GSM system, remember; it is made for quick portability. Porting your subscription is done in one step: Tell your new operator that you are switching to them and be sure to mention the phone # while you're at it. Done. The new SIM card arrives after a while and the porting date comes via email. Or snailmail if you want it to.
I'm all for capitalism. However, it works best when there is a somewhat equal distribution of wealth. If corporations are permitted to squeeze every last dime from consumers and workers pockets, we will soon find our economy in shambles.
The regulatory pendulum has swung to far in one direction. It's time to put the regulatory squeeze back on corporations. We must ensure that, instead of leeching off our economic engine, corporations contribute to it in a healthy, productive way.
<a href="http://www.joblessjimmy.com">Work is dumb and so is Jobless Jimmy.</a>
I'm shocked, shocked to find that the carriers are using this as an excuse to gouge their customers!
Whatever next? Companies that exploit their workers? Accountants that fudge the numbers? Politicians that lie?
"Accept that some days you are the pigeon, and some days you are the statue." - David Brent, Wernham Hogg
I pay $2.20 on my bill for "number portability."
I called to let them know that I am dropping them for another carrier at the end of this month, and that I planned on taking my number with me...
They said, and this was a real gas, "We don't offer that service. You'll have to give up your phone numbers if you leave Sprint."
"But you're charging me for number portability!"
"I'm sorry, sir, but you won't be able to keep your numbers"
"Then why are you charging me for number portability"
"Sir, Federal regulations require that we charge the number portability fee"
"..."
I couldn't believe my ears..
Anyone else with Sprint heard the same story? I think that charging a fee for a service one can't utilize comes down to, oh I dunno, fraud...
It works both ways. While they do not want existing customers to port to another provider, I am sure that they would like other providers customers to port to them.
We've had portable numbers for years... and most of the US mobile companies are Europe based and work in the UK, T-Mobile, Vodaphone etc. So the quick summary is...
1) We've done it in the UK (and the rest of Europe)
2) European companies dominate the carrier networks
3) We're just doing it to piss you off.
An Eye for an Eye will make the whole world blind - Gandhi
I love my cell number, very easy to remember pattern ( xyx y[x-1][y-1]0 ) and I'd love to move it over to Nextel. Since my employer is the main source of phone traffic to my cell, I can get added to the company plan if I have a NexTel phone.
I'd also like to get a slightly larger phone. My current one is too small for my hands.
The moral of the story, never let your S.O. pick out something as personal as your cell phone.
Off on a tangent as usual
--- As to make my comment seem, by comparison, more intelegent... doodie doodie doodie poop poop poop!
The ellipses of cellular usage are bizarre things, from: 'The fact that American companies and ONLY American companies charge both the person who placed the call AND the person receiving it doesn't make us BOTH suckers,' to 'technological fashion demands that I pay a lot of money so my boss can reach me while I'm making love.'
Yes, the inner game of cellular use is a strange one and you've got to play it as smartly as possible on your end because you are an amateur while the people working for the multibillion-dollar corporations whose whole reason for existing is to replace the payphone are trained professionals who think of ways of rogering their customers on overtime.
So where does this leave you when it comes to number portability?
Stay flexible. As the poster from Finland pointed out, where he is, number portability lead to companies making big efforts to keep customers from switching to other companies. Something like that *might* happen here--you can certainly imagine that entering the mix when the legislation is enacted--but it is just as likely that the same class of businessmen who brought you the eternal copyright will certainly use the fees the law grants to hide another fifty-cents on your bill every month while kicking and screaming to avoid giving you a choice. Why would anyone expect them to do otherwise? There's no downside for them.
Your part of the game as a customer is to maintain all the flexibility, and the best bargaining position you can in dealing with them. Look at it this way. As things are now, switching out of a new contract with a provider already means, handing a company that has proven its lack of worth a stack of bills so you can own a dead cell phone.
Cellular providers hold all the psychological cards against switching so it's your job to find the company that combines the strongest mix of features with the strongest motivation for keeping you. If that means paying ten dollars a month so you can plan-hop when they offer something better than what you have, or jump ship if someone else outbids them, so be it.
Making the right decision can surprise you: I use a phone from one of the smaller fish in the big game and during the recent blackout, my web service functioned for a while even after my voice service didn't, and I ended lending my phone to several people whose service only came back hours later.
I think the best way of thinking about ones relationship with cellular providers is to think of it as friendly warfare.
To mail me, remove the 'mailno' from my email addy.
"Yeah. It smells, too..."
This way the telcos can't rise and obscure the prices by claiming it's because of the number portability.
--
Binaries may die but source code lives forever
againt this shows the difference between Europe and the USA. I live in the UK, and number portablity is painless, free, and well organised to the point that people dont even think tiwice about it. Although oftel says 2 weeks at max to transfer, it usually happens within days. cellphoen operators cannot refuse to do it.
:) especially with me being a good revenue costomer for them! :)
more importantly, thanks to the strict regultations, number portability gives an EXTREME amount of power to the users.
For example, if I ever feel that TMobile (my provider) is not performing as well as i expect, i simply threaten to ask for my PAC number (a number provided to port your number) and its suprising how far they will bend back to help you
Have a nice day!
The bigger question is how you ever got to talk to a person?
"I don't think it's selfish, to eat defenseless shellfish." -NOFX
That being said, I have faith in human ingenuity. The folks that persuaded thousands of idiots to order penis enlargement pills should have little trouble working out an effective cell slam scam.
Life is like surrealism: if you have to have it explained to you, you can't afford it.
> a T-Mobile (GSM) rep slammed an AT&T customer
> (CDMA?), seems to me they'd have to give the slamee a
> new phone.
Technologically, it's doable, but not as easily.
AT&T Wireless uses mostly D-AMPS IS-136, but they're trying to roll-out GSM into their markets because a) D-AMPS sux, and b) the data capabilities of D-AMPS sucks. Cingular is in the same boat as AT&T Wireless.
[Note that, as any anal-retentive RF Engineer will tell you, GSM and IS-136 D-AMPS are both TDMA (i.e., Time Division Multiplexed Access).]
Verizon Wireless, SprintPCS, and ALLTEL use IS-95 CDMA. So it is technologically conceivable that a consumer could get forcibly moved from AT&T Wireless/Cingular/Nextel once the GSM migration is complete. Ditto for Verizon Wireless/SprintPCS/ALLTEL.
The issue is generally the phones are the same, but internal settings in the phone must be changed to change carriers. This would have to be accomplished more than just moving the subscriber information from one service to another (like with long distance), but also reprogramming the settings on the phone.
Don't feel easy yet; cellular service providers have had what they call "Over the Air Programming" (OAP) for years now, so they could send the programming information over the radio control channel to change the phone's settings.
I wouldn't be surprised if as cellular technology continues to mature, users start to get spam short messaging service messages saying something like, "Reply to this message to improve your cellular phone service". If the user replies, they get moved to a new $2.99/minute rate plan with SleazyCell company.
Insert simplistic political, ideological, or personal proselytization here.
Another thing, AWS is switching to GSM because they can cram more calls into any given channel compared to D-AMPS. It wasn't about quality. There is arguably no difference in sound quality to the end user. It was capacity issue. (Remember the class action suit brought against them a few years back because they oversold service) And as for data, a few telecom equipment companies were working on a data solution for D-AMPS(comparable to GPRS) but stopped development when AWS annouced that they were switching to GSM back in 2000.
I recently decided to switch from Verizon to Cavalier Telephone, a local CLEC. It took me almost two months to complete the transition, including some two weeks where I had no inbound phone service, unless the caller was coming from Cavalier's network (i.e. 0.0001% of the universe). Sparing everyone the gory details, I had problems including:
- Cavalier required me to be at home to tell a technician to cut over from my Verizon line, despite my having told them it was OK at least a dozen times over the phone
- Neither company could explain exactly what was happening with the split-bank on my line, required (at least by Verizon) for DSL. Understanding a that problem and getting it fixed added two weeks to the switchover.
- When Verizon finally claimed it had ported my old number, they didn't bother to change their routing information, leaving me with my lack of inbound service. Neither company had a way of expediting a fix ("That'll be 3 business days, sir"), or even a person or department who specifically dealt with number portability or the like.
I was paying both companies throughout the switch, mainly due to the fact that if I cancelled my Verizon account, the number I was trying to port would have disappeared for good.I was told many times over that neither company had ever experienced such a painful switch; even so, the fact that such a disaster could happen at all tells me that companies aren't paying nearly the attention they should to number portability issues, considering the millions they're raking in from it.
How To Get Humans To Mars
I'm amused by our friends across the pond feeling bad for Americans because they don't have number portability? But do our friends with the silly accents realise the sorry state the US is in when it comes to mobile telecom in general?
Let's begin. The carriers here have no concept of a SIM card. Most phones are CDMA and are firmware locked to the provider. There are only two GSM networks I know of, T-Mobile and AT&T. Tri-band phones from these places cost as much as a Yugo. In addition, AT&T "provider locks" their expensive tri-band phones to only work on AT&T, and will not unlock them, not even for a fee (AT&T, if you're reading this, there are places online that unlock your phones for $20 or less, so screw you). T-Mobile unlocks your phone within 72 hours of being on contract, which is decent, however. Oh but should you wish to get a newer mobile from them, you have to resign a 1-2 year contract...
Oh yes, the contracts! Wait til you hear about these! Everyone's on contract here, because it's too expensive not to be. So here's how it works. You have this allotted quantity of minutes you pay a fixed monthly fee for, then you pay exorbitant rates (40c+ a minute) if you use them up. These quantities are decent, for example, T-Mobile offers 600 minutes, free nights, free weekends, and 500 SMS for $43 (27 quid) without tax. Nice eh? Umm, no, little do you realize how backwards the billing schemes are here. For one thing, minutes from that "600" get deducted for every incoming call. Even SMS get deducted for every incoming SMS sometimes. And 1 second rounding? Try 1 minute rounding. And if you don't use all your minutes in a month? *poof*, gone. Cingular's trying rollover, but since they're not GSM, they don't count. Oh, and should you wish to add or remove the number of allotted minutes to your plan, you have to resign a 1-2 year contract, with a termination fee in the $100 or $200s.
So in short, who gives a crap about number portability? How about we get reasonable plans and GSM phones which take SIM cards, before we worry about switching providers and keeping our numbers? What would you rather do, keep your phone when you switch carrier, or keep your number when you switch carrier? Especially since a decent triband costs hundreds of dollars?
*blinking cursor*
US Democracy:The best person for the job (among These pre-selected choices...)
The bigger question is how you ever got to talk to a person?
When Claire...the happy automted Sprint PCS minion asks "how can I help you today" you reply "cancel service."
Do some research.
Cingular and AT&T are TDMA/GSM hybrid networks. Cingular has decent GSM coverage in the Carolinas -- T-Mobile roams on Cingular (free of charge) while in the Carolinas. However, I hear that much of Cingular's coverage is limited, and AT&T has more of its TDMA areas covered by GSM. AT&T and Cingular sell GAIT phones, which support GSM, TDMA, and AMPS.
T-Mobile is all GSM. In areas where T-Mobile doesn't have coverage, T-Mobile can roam on parts of Cingular's and AT&T's networks, along with many smaller regional operator's networks (e.g. West Virginia Wireless).
T-Mobile will let you change your plan while in contract, as long as it's a normal plan (not a promotional plan, which is only available to sign up for during the length of the promotion). Also, they will let you buy new phones WITHOUT extending the contract - however, you probably won't pay the prices listed on www.t-mobile.com for some phones. For example, T-Mobile lists a price of $99.99 for the Sony Ericsson T300, with a $100 mail in rebate.. As a T-Mobile customer of 5 months with good credit, I could buy it for $130 (that's with a $50 discount). Remember, cellular operators subsidize the cost of the phones they sell..
T-Mobile doesn't even offer 2 year contracts. All of their contracts are 1 year. And if you want to bring your own phone (or with some stores, pay the full unsubsided price for the phone), you can pay monthly without a contract.
I went on eBay and purchased this same phone new (battery, accessories used) for $107.50 including shipping. When I got it, I put my SIM card and immediately I could use it.
The current CDMA 1xRTT technologies deployed by Verizon and Sprint PCS are more advanced than the GSM/GRPS deployed by Cingular, ATTWS (AT&T Wireless), and T-Mobile. GRPS can't compete with the speed of 1xRTT for wireless data services.
CDMA phones can have SIM-card like functionality, called URIM. However, this is not used at all in the USA. AFAIK, Sprint cells one phone with this functionality but disables it.
Personally, I like the USA cellular billing scheme. Otherwise, you'd have to pay a lot for outgoing calls.. which I make the most with my phone.