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Corel Goes Private

prostoalex writes "Ottawa-based Corel, known for its CorelDRAW, WordPerfect, Painter and Bryce products, has been acquired by Vector Capital Corp. for $124 mln. with the intent to get de-listed from Nasdaq and Toronto stock markets and go private. 80% of shareholders approved the deal, according to the story. At certain points of its corporate history Corel was a Linux vendor and even partially owned by Microsoft. Microsoft paid $135M for 25% of the shares, so Vector Capital paying $124M for 100% stake looks like a pretty good deal." It's been over a month since this was first announced, but it's actually come to pass now.

145 comments

  1. Corel Draw by tsa · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Does this mean we get to keep Corel Draw? Maybe there will be a new Linux version in the future? That'll be soo cool!

    --

    -- Cheers!

    1. Re:Corel Draw by wyzemoro · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      corel draw in linux? hmmmmm.... i rather stay wid gimp... wekeke.

      SCO? linux 0wn3d j00!

      --
      Moslemen M. Macarambon Jr. http://www.junmacarambon.com/
    2. Re:Corel Draw by tsa · · Score: 1

      AFAIK gimp is a bitmap drawing package not a vector drawing package.

      --

      -- Cheers!

    3. Re:Corel Draw by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      http://sodipodi.sourceforge.net

      sodipodi needs some programmer love!

    4. Re:Corel Draw by getkashyap · · Score: 1

      Heh heh! You wish! Next thing you know they'll start suing the world , saying they own Linux!!

      Hey what am i saying! SCO owns the kernel, right? ;)

      Kash

      --
      Yeah, whatever!!!
    5. Re:Corel Draw by Rolo+Tomasi · · Score: 1

      Real geeks don't draw, they program in PostScript.

      --
      Did you know you can fertilize your lawn with used motor oil?
    6. Re:Corel Draw by WindBourne · · Score: 4, Informative

      yes. The reason is that vector is the company that originally supported the linux stuff. Hopefully, they will do it right this time. If they are smart, they will move all the graphics to Linux and then catch the rest. Why graphics? one word. Hollywood.

      --
      I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
    7. Re:Corel Draw by Gilmoure · · Score: 1

      In the main library of University of Central Florida (go k-niggits!) there is a book on postscript. It doesn't look to much more complicated than html.

      --
      I drank what? -- Socrates
    8. Re:Corel Draw by justsomebody · · Score: 1

      And one even better reason why.

      Corel already got burned on Windows market. Their major losses started right after droping Linux and M$ deal

      --
      Signature Pro version 1.13.2-3 release 83.5 beta3try7 after-breakfast edition
    9. Re:Corel Draw by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sodipodi sucks compared to Corel Draw or Illustrator. Especially it's interface. It's about time some open source programmers bought some user interface design books before they produce more abominations such as Sodipodi, The GIMP, or Blender.

    10. Re:Corel Draw by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      Word around Ottawa is Corel's Linux department was completely dispursed a long time ago.

      Corel would have to assemble a new team of Linux developers if they were ever to release a new Linux product. Not very likely.

    11. Re:Corel Draw by Quarters · · Score: 1
      one word. Hollywood

      What graphics package does Corel have in it's portfolio that is suited for movie industry work? Vector graphics (e.g. CorelDRAW) aren't big in movie production. Corel PhotoPAINT is good, but can only do a maximum of 8 bits of color data per channel, which makes it ill suited for movie work. Plus, it works on single images, not multiple frames. Corel doesn't have an industrial grade editing package. I don't even thing they have a professional, prosumer, or consumer level editing package.

      How exactly would Corel make Hollywood interested in them?

    12. Re:Corel Draw by ThogScully · · Score: 1

      They've made 3D-rendering packages, animation packages, etc. It's not just CorelDRAW and Photo-Paint. And by the way, Photo-Paint does work with frame-based animation graphics/movies - not sure where you got the idea it doesn't.
      -N

      --
      I've nothing to say here...
    13. Re:Corel Draw by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I am one of their Linux developers. No they did not fire us or lay us off we just gotmoved around to do different things in the company. I cannot say tho if Linux development will pick back up just stay tuned and we will see what happens.

  2. Does anyone see IP issues inthe future? by WanderingGhost · · Score: 4, Interesting

    How much did Corel contribute to Open Source projects? With all the problems SCO has been causing, the news about Corel going private makes me sort of uncomfortable. Could they start doing the same?

    1. Re:Does anyone see IP issues inthe future? by tsa · · Score: 3, Informative

      The difference with SCO is that Corel has had a positive attitude towards linux. They contributed a lot to the wine project while developing Corel Draw and WP for Linux. I would be very surprised if they turn around 180 degrees all of a sudden.

      --

      -- Cheers!

    2. Re:Does anyone see IP issues inthe future? by kfg · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Corel's attitude is now irrelevant.

      What is that attitude of Vector Capital, for whom Corel is simply now an owned brand?

      I think you might find that it's very different than Corel's traditional point of view.

      KFG

    3. Re:Does anyone see IP issues inthe future? by WanderingGhost · · Score: 1

      The difference with SCO is that Corel has had a positive attitude towards linux. They contributed a lot to the wine project

      Well, yes, but since someone else (literally) owns them now, it would be possible that the new boss has a completely different idea about that... (I really hope this is not the case)

    4. Re:Does anyone see IP issues inthe future? by WanderingGhost · · Score: 1

      What is that attitude of Vector Capital, for whom Corel is simply now an owned brand?
      I think you might find that it's very different than Corel's traditional point of view.


      Does anyone have references to statements or whatever else by Vector Capital on their plans for Corel?

    5. Re:Does anyone see IP issues inthe future? by Daniel+Dvorkin · · Score: 4, Informative
      What is that attitude of Vector Capital, for whom Corel is simply now an owned brand?
      Good question. Here's a partial answer: a list of software companies owned by Vector. The majority of them seem to be the types of names you don't recognize unless you work in a specific field -- "enterprise software" tailored to a very specific business application. And like it or not, that usually means Windows these days. I'd love to see more Linux and OS X releases from Corel (I'd love an OS X - native WordPerfect) but I'm not terribly optimistic.

      OTOH, "simply an owned brand" might be a bit harsh -- I get the impression that VC (nice abbreviation, huh?) is basically a holding company and doesn't necessarily run the businesses they own. So who knows. Maybe given some money to play with and some space to breathe, the forward thinkers at Corel (there must be some left, right?) can come up with some good stuff.
      --
      The correlation between ignorance of statistics and using "correlation is not causation" as an argument is close to 1.
    6. Re:Does anyone see IP issues inthe future? by Magic+Thread · · Score: 1

      No, of course not. They're going private, which means they won't be evil anymore. When companies do evil things, it's almost always because they're trying to satisfy the stupid stockholders.

    7. Re:Does anyone see IP issues inthe future? by Drakin · · Score: 1

      Ah, but if they contributed in good faith, with code that's properly licensed (and more than likely they did) they're unlikely to attempt to pull a SCO.

      They'd have even less grounds to do so than SCO (who have none it's looking like) and thier time and money would be better spent on furthing their product line (Maybe make Word Perfect a competitor again).

    8. Re:Does anyone see IP issues inthe future? by xanadu-xtroot.com · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      simply now an owned brand

      Isn't that a bit like RAW vs. Smackdown...

      --
      I'm not a prophet or a stone-age man,
      I'm just a mortal with potential of a super man.
    9. Re:Does anyone see IP issues inthe future? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Vector is motivated a lot by the SCO situation. It's generally known that they plan to start leveraging lawsuits of a similar nature against OSS projects, backed by the amount of work and code they put into the WINE and KDE projects.

    10. Re:Does anyone see IP issues inthe future? by Planesdragon · · Score: 4, Interesting

      With all the problems SCO has been causing, the news about Corel going private makes me sort of uncomfortable.

      You misunderstand the stock market.

      A publicly-traded company, like SCO or Microsoft, has to issue quarterly earnings reports, and is simply unable to focus on anything but profit. OSS is very, VERY hard to sell to publicly-traded software shops because OSS means that they're spending capital and getting no resources in return. (Publicly-traded hardware shops, like IBM and Apple, or service-shops, like AOL, are much easier sells--they simply write off the OSS programming as "support and maintenance")

      Privately-held companies, like Corel will be, are a LOT easier to convince to use OSS. They can issue earnings reports at about any interval they want, they can market themselves in odd ways, and, being free of the whims of the stock market, they can pursue their business plan without worrying too much about hostile takeovers or the tides of politics.

      A good release of Wordperfect office and a very stable Linux desktop would make an almost perfect MS replacement. Even though Word is the market-leader in word-processing (which, I wager, is what most users-hours are), Wordperfect still has sufficient mindshare to challenge MS--espeically in the legal field.

    11. Re:Does anyone see IP issues inthe future? by Pflipp · · Score: 1

      The difference with SCO is that Corel has had a positive attitude towards linux. They contributed a lot to the wine project while developing Corel Draw and WP for Linux. I would be very surprised if they turn around 180 degrees all of a sudden.

      Wasn't Caldera the Linux company that bought the original UNIX code while we all cheered and expected it to finally become Free Software?

      I'm talking out of my own memory here, but this IS what I remember of it.

      --
      "We can confirm that Debian does *not* ship the version with the trojan horse. Our version predates it." [CA-2002-28]
    12. Re:Does anyone see IP issues inthe future? by schon · · Score: 1

      It's generally known that they plan to start leveraging lawsuits of a similar nature against OSS projects

      It's "generally known" by whom?

      Can you cite references please?

    13. Re:Does anyone see IP issues inthe future? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      OSS is very, VERY hard to sell to publicly-traded software shops

      Yes, that's why IBM doesn't use Linux, right?

    14. Re:Does anyone see IP issues inthe future? by Dun+Malg · · Score: 2, Informative
      Good question. Here's a partial answer: a list of software companies owned by Vector.

      Vector doesn't OWN those companies, they're in its PORTFOLIO. That means they own PART of those companies, i.e. they are investors. Now, they may or may not have a controlling interest, but OWN? No.

      --
      If a job's not worth doing, it's not worth doing right.
    15. Re:Does anyone see IP issues inthe future? by pclminion · · Score: 1
      When's the last time you did something "very, VERY hard?" I know I have.

      I heard going to the moon was pretty hard, too.

    16. Re:Does anyone see IP issues inthe future? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You only needed to read the parenthesised clause later in that same sentence, and you didn't even manage that. Held back in the second grade?

    17. Re:Does anyone see IP issues inthe future? by WindBourne · · Score: 1

      It's generally known that they plan to start leveraging lawsuits of a similar nature against OSS projects, backed by the amount of work and code they put into the WINE and KDE projects.

      Vector was very involved with making the choice to move to Linux years ago. More importantly, they own real. The company that is now offering all sorts of "IP" to the OSS world.
      <saying that mom should have said>If you can not say something intelligent, than please do not say anything</saying that mom should have said>

      --
      I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
    18. Re:Does anyone see IP issues inthe future? by kramer2718 · · Score: 1

      I agree. My father is a judge and my mother runs a law firm. My Dad still uses WordPerfect even though the whole courthouse switched to Word. I think my Mom's office might be half and half. In any case, I'll probably encourage her to switch from her MS Exchange Based Network to something Linux based in the next few years. The real roadblock there is good distributed organizing software for Linux. Perhaps, Corel can get into the small business planning sector? It's one area where OSS is severely lacking.

    19. Re:Does anyone see IP issues inthe future? by rikkards · · Score: 1

      Corel didn't have a positive attitude. Michael Copeland did (former CEO). His ego believed that Corel could take on MS and win in both the Office suite and OS. He was ahead of the game too soon. Almost while he was emptying his office, the Linux product was dropped and Corel crawled back to MS begging forgiveness.

    20. Re:Does anyone see IP issues inthe future? by Planesdragon · · Score: 1

      Hmm...

      It's not OSS, but if you're looking to switch to a non-MS groupware system, why not try Novell? As of next version the server is going to be kernal-swappable, so it can run on Linux (which is an infinite boon, speaking from experience) and they've got a Groupwise client for Linux & Mac out now, too.

      Sure, GW is a PITA--but it does what it does, and no one seems to taget it for viri attacks.

    21. Re:Does anyone see IP issues inthe future? by kramer2718 · · Score: 1

      Thanks. I'll look into it.

      I still think that an OSS groupware (thanks for the proper term) system would greatly speed adoption of Linux by small businesses which is an extremely important market (I guess I should use that term with respect to free software).

    22. Re:Does anyone see IP issues inthe future? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      They're going private, which means they won't be evil anymore. When companies do evil things, it's almost always because they're trying to satisfy the stupid stockholders.

      Corel is being taken over by MS stooges and you should really learn about the background. Hint: It's not the shareholders who are being evil here.

      http://corelrescue.com/pr-01.html

      http://corelrescue.com/MS-Connection.html

    23. Re:Does anyone see IP issues inthe future? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Privately-held companies, like Corel will be, are a LOT easier to convince to use OSS.

      But this takeover is being maneuvered behind shareholders' backs by MS stooges, perhaps partly because Corel's shareholders have pushed for the resumption of Linux support...

      http://corelrescue.com/pr-01.html

      http://corelrescue.com/MS-Connection.html

  3. One thing the article missed... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    ...who are they planning to sue?

  4. context by RobertTaylor · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "Microsoft paid $135M for 25% of the shares, so Vector Capital paying $124M for 100% stake looks like a pretty good deal."

    Microsoft paid that in 2000, the year when anyone with an understanding of Frontpage Express could get zillions in venture capital.

    $124 million in 2003 however is a fair whack!

    1. Re:context by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Here's some real context!!

      http://corelrescue.com/pr-01.html

      http://corelrescue.com/MS-Connection.html

      MS practically donated their shares to an affiliated party who could then lauch this privatization scheme.

  5. Re:I missed corel draw. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You sir are a pro!

  6. gmip, pah by DrSkwid · · Score: 4, Interesting

    you should try Corel Painter

    It's where Fractal Painter went

    it is one of the best "natural media" packages available

    Gimp will *never* catch up without massive input and to be honest, I'd rather Gimp was frozen and another application started.

    --
    There are places where the networks are not touching,and there are places where they are-Boeing's Lori Gunter
    1. Re:gmip, pah by setik · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Painter is hands down the best natural media out there for any platform. personally if I want to actually create something from raw pixels I will use painter, photoshop just cant even hold a candle to its brushes and papaer sets, photoshops for manipulation, not painting.
      My Wife creates over 80% of her work in it, which is some pretty amazing stuff, the most often asked question is "is that digital, no really you did that on a computer?"
      I for one would not be able to to such nice weathered textures in such a short time without Painter, long live the king!

  7. Well lets hope. by jellomizer · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Now that Corel is no longer under the whims of stockholders they can actually get to making a really good product and focus on other platforms and finally declaired that they loss the Windows Market. Including a Good modern version of WordPerfect for linux (Not that crappy windows emulated version) and I hope they will be more Mac friendly.

    --
    If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    1. Re:Well lets hope. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wordperft used WINE

      Repeat after me "Wine is not an emulator"

    2. Re:Well lets hope. by bellers · · Score: 3, Insightful
      >>>Now that Corel is no longer under the whims of stockholders they can actually get to making a really good product and focus on other platforms and finally declaired that they loss the Windows Market.


      Oh, yeah. Now they're just under the whim of venture capitalists. That's much, much better.


      Those poor bastards.


      Alas, poor Corel. I knew him, Horatio!

      --
      This space for rent.
    3. Re:Well lets hope. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It's sad to say, but as a company that is prone to jump on every band wagon and falling off - Corel simply lacks the direction needed to set the company strait. They take in good products, and they watch them spiral into oblivion.

      If I were Corel, I would be setting up a relationship with Novell like yesterday. Novell will move to a Linux solution - and with the purchase of Ximian they seem to have some end user software package in mind as well. So why not try to get Word Perfect in there? If the Novell thing takes off they'd be sitting pretty well off as an office suite distributed with a buisness package where Microsoft can't touch them.

      Word Perfect has better name recognition, but if they don't get their ass in gear, then open/star office will be the last nail in the coffin.

    4. Re:Well lets hope. by Bushcat · · Score: 2, Insightful
      they can actually get to making a really good product

      They seem to have shown an inability to develop bought-in products in a timely manner, if at all. Their acquisition of Ventura is a case in point: an outstanding DTP solution, well-liked because of the ease with which huge documents could be laid out, turned rapidly into a bug-ridden monster. WordPerfect fared a little better, but still failed to keep up with the competition. The problem was, around 1998, that no-one really believed a Corel product would be stable enough to be usable.

      Things may have changed more recently but, of course, it was too late since most of us had already jumped ship.

    5. Re:Well lets hope. by benwb · · Score: 1

      Just to nitpick a little, it doesn't appear that vector capital is a really a vc company, but rather more of a privaty equity fund. Venture capitalists are nice people compared to anyone I've ever met in the private equity market.

    6. Re:Well lets hope. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      You must be a troll.

      Novell OWNED wordperfect. Who do you think Corel bought it from? Tip: "they got rid of it for a reason".

    7. Re:Well lets hope. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Now that Corel is no longer under the whims of stockholders they can actually get to making a really good product and focus on other platforms and finally declaired that they loss the Windows Market. Including a Good modern version of WordPerfect for linux (Not that crappy windows emulated version) and I hope they will be more Mac friendly.

      Except that this takeover is being maneuvered behind shareholders' backs by MS stooges, quite possibly because Corel's shareholders have been pushing for the resumption of Linux support...

      http://corelrescue.com/pr-01.html

      http://corelrescue.com/MS-Connection.html

      This takeover scheme is nothing short of scandalous and Corel Rescue is trying to get this thing investigated.

  8. A Pretty Good Deal by Waffle+Iron · · Score: 5, Funny
    Microsoft paid $135M for 25% of the shares, so Vector Capital paying $124M for 100% stake looks like a pretty good deal.

    If you've think that's a good deal, I've got some great deals on stock. I'll sell you shares of pets.com, PanAm airlines, 3dfx, and hundreds of others for a mere fraction of what they used to cost! You can't go wrong!

    1. Re:A Pretty Good Deal by earthforce_1 · · Score: 1

      I will trade you for my Enron and Bre-X shares!

      --
      My rights don't need management.
    2. Re:A Pretty Good Deal by axxackall · · Score: 1

      Hey, the original poster (prostoalex) perhaps has missed all market news since the time of Microsoft/Corel deal. He doesn't know (yet) that the market is down and so on. Leave the guy alone.

      --

      Less is more !
  9. Re:I missed corel draw. by tsa · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The only problem with CorelDraw for Linux was that it was rpm-based and therefore very difficult to install on my Slackware system. If they release a next version I hope it has a decent install program like OO and Mozilla.

    --

    -- Cheers!

  10. FECAL TROLL!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Don't click the links. They are all fecal matter.

    Damn I hate when I fall for these!

  11. "It's a steal" by smallpaul · · Score: 4, Informative

    This deal is so sweet for Vector that it is barely legal. $124M is nothing for a company with annual revenues of $127M and 70M in cash. This is also the most illogical time to sell the company. The market is in the toilet, Corel shares are at an all-time low, Corel has plenty of cash in the bank, Corel has new product lines that have not been given time to prove themselves, etc. The whole thing looks very poorly thought out.

    1. Re:"It's a steal" by ortholattice · · Score: 4, Informative
      I agree it's a terrible deal for the stockholders. For example, its price/sales ratio is only 0.76 (compared to say 4 for Amazon, 17.5 for Yahoo, 21.41 for Ebay). I bought 3700 shares on 8/29/02 at $1.04 expecting to hold them a long time and to appreciate considerably, since my research at that time indicated it was severely undervalued. Now I'm forced to sell, against my will, at $1.05 a share. So even though I'm making a $37.00 profit before commissions, I'm actually losing $39.98 - $37.00 = $2.98 after commissions are taken into account. At least I won't have to pay taxes.

      Ironically even though the stockholders got screwed, they screwed themselves by voting for this, or more likely by not voting at all (I voted against it). Apparently it was 37.8 million in favor versus 8.1 million against; the rest of the 91 million shares didn't vote. Now of the 37.8 million in favor, 23 million were controlled by Vector, who is now laughing all the way to the bank. Moral: always vote your shares. You may think it won't make much difference, but this is what happened when everyone thought that way.

    2. Re:"It's a steal" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It seems that whenever a good opportunity to make some money comes along for the "common" person, the people with real money come along and say "that's too good a deal for you, we'll take that, now run along..."

  12. Corel really missed an opportunity by Jack+Auf · · Score: 1

    I sent repeated emails to Corel and to Lotus/IBM begging them to port their respective office suites to Linux, but without success. At the time StarOffice sucked arse (v6? v7?), when it was still using that horrid all-in-one interface. Had they released ports of Word Perfect, Quattro Pro, and Presentations as an office suite they could have easily dominated the Linux office suite market space.

    Most of the people I knew and worked with in the Linux community at that time would have gladly paid a few hundred dollars for a decent native word processor, spreadsheet, and prentation app that could read and write MS formats well.

    --
    "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" - BF
    1. Re:Corel really missed an opportunity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I sent repeated emails to Corel and to Lotus/IBM begging them to port their respective office suites to Linux, but without success

      Maybe you should have used a nice font. Don't you know that in business, presentation comes first and then it's content? No? Well, you do now.

      Please keep your replies on-topic. Thanks in advance.

  13. And not to forget the truly spectacular Netwinder by Halvard · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Yes, Virginia, Corel sold hardware! The Netwinder lives on. For the unitiated, this originally was a StrongArm platform and there's a later Transmeta version.

    Originally, these were available in Office Server, web server and desktop machine versions, different loads on the same hardware. Eventually a dual chassis rackmount appeared. With a couple of NICs and IPChains, they'd NAT an office. (No, I don't want to debate running Samba, etc. on the firewall just leave it at it was an inexpensive powerful small business solution).

    It's got a strong developer base still. Went through a Rebel phase. When Rebel tanked, the CEOs new company used the customer list he brought but didn't own to spam people saying their Netwinders weren't secure and offered to sell them a blackbox firewall to plug in in front of it that wasn't secure. Ah, the scruples of a VC inspired world.

    Anyway, these are great boxes that can be had new for cheap (~US$400) and less on eBay for used. Small, functional, reliable. I've got one running behind me running me.

  14. Maybe they will sell us their code? by HanzoSan · · Score: 2, Interesting



    You know, like Blender.

    --
    If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
  15. Open Source Fund to buy out these companies? by AJ_Levy · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I'm just wondering if the Open Source community should set up a fund to, in future, buy out companies like Corel, and release their intellectual property as open source under GNU. Perhaps not as much Corel as Adobe, and its ilk. Think '80s style corporate raiding, except we raid intellectual property. Stuff like offices and the like get sold on the market, funding more purchases. Or am I just insane?

    --
    http://amishthrasher.blogspot.com/
    1. Re:Open Source Fund to buy out these companies? by Timesprout · · Score: 1

      Or am I just insane ?

      Not just insane but completely off the sanity radar

      --
      Do not try to read the dupe, thats impossible. Instead, only try to realize the truth
      What truth?
      There is no dupe
    2. Re:Open Source Fund to buy out these companies? by StarCat76 · · Score: 1

      It's a neat idea, but if you find a way to get the OSS community to donate 125 million dollars, you'd prolly be better off writing a new GPL'd version from scratch.

    3. Re:Open Source Fund to buy out these companies? by HanzoSan · · Score: 1



      Thats exactly what I said in my post, we should pull a blender, pool our money and instead of buying the company, we should buy their assets, their software, their code.

      --
      If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
  16. Once bitten, twice shy. by FreeLinux · · Score: 4, Insightful

    While I agree that your suggestion would be nice, I wouldn't hold my breath. The fact is that, even if Corel is not answering to shareholders anymore, they are still a for profit company and will do their best to generate profit.

    Corel tried the Linux route, producing their own distribution and a few Linux native versions of their apps. That endeavour failed miserably and they abandonded the effort completey, similar to their plan to port all their apps to Java.

    Having already failed in the Linux arena and "wasted" millions of dollars in the process, Corel is unlikely to revisit what was for them a boondoggle anytime in the near future. Frankly, I do not know where Corel is going to go. In all likelyhood they will develop for the most pervasive platform but, they are unlikely to make inroads against MS Word with Wordperfect and PhotoShop seems to have a firm grip on the would be Draw market. They need a new product and I'm not sure they know what that is.

    1. Re:Once bitten, twice shy. by TeXMaster · · Score: 4, Informative
      > Corel tried the Linux route, producing their own distribution and a few Linux native versions of their apps. That endeavour failed miserably and they abandonded the effort completey, similar to their plan to port all their apps to Java.

      Corel's attempt at Linux were not successful by themselves, but the 'heirs' of Corel in the Linux world (i.e. Xandros) managed to turn it into a pretty effective product; at least for what I hear from people that have been trying the various distributions, Xandros is one of the easiest to install, most user friendly and it's rather complete too.

      The most dangerous competitors for Corel now are precisely those in the open source world: for example, OpenOffice.org is in a good position to steal market from WordPerfect Office, even though Writer is not as good as WordPerfect and QuattroPro doesn't suffer from the size limitations that haunt Calc (or Excel).

      --
      "I'm never quite so stupid as when I'm being smart" (Linus van Pelt)
    2. Re:Once bitten, twice shy. by pixelite · · Score: 1
      :...PhotoShop seems to have a firm grip on the would be Draw market."

      I think you're confused. Photoshop does not compete with Draw at all. Photoshop is a raster graphics program, ie. a painting program, whereas, Draw is a vector graphics program, ie. illustration. Illustrator and Draw would be a better comparison since they are both vector programs. Corels equivilent to Photoshop is Paint.

      --
      >>Sig under construction
    3. Re:Once bitten, twice shy. by WindBourne · · Score: 1

      Different management.
      As soon as they got into the market, they ran out of money and MS paid them to pull out. Vector is interested in being in a market where the competition is minimal rather than being dominated by 1 company. Vector is headed straight for Linux.

      --
      I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
    4. Re:Once bitten, twice shy. by HiThere · · Score: 1

      Let's hope that this time they don't try to push their own distro. And also hope that they do native conversions rather than depending on winelib.

      --

      I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
    5. Re:Once bitten, twice shy. by kkirk007 · · Score: 1
      Corel's mistake was that they were actually ahead of the field. They predicted the oncome of free software and linux, but they did it way too soon. During the dotcom boom, everyone was looking at linux having some potential, but it wasn't until after the bust that IT depts started worrying about money and ways to save (e.g. linux).

      Corel's only sin was trying to move everyone over too soon, and for that...they got burned.

    6. Re:Once bitten, twice shy. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Having already failed in the Linux arena and "wasted" millions of dollars in the process, Corel is unlikely to revisit what was for them a boondoggle anytime in the near future.

      Corel's past spending on Linux is dwarfed compared to what they've blown on MS.NET. But more importantly this takeover is being maneuvered behind shareholders' backs by MS stooges, perhaps partly because Corel's shareholders have pushed for the resumption of Linux support and to prevent Corel's current MS.NET support from being scaled back...

      http://corelrescue.com/pr-01.html

      http://corelrescue.com/MS-Connection.html

      Check out some gory details on the Corel Rescue website. Most shareholders have not voted and may not even know yet that Microsoft's friends are stealing their shares! If a deal like this goes through no one will be safe.

    7. Re:Once bitten, twice shy. by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 1

      similar to their plan to port all their apps to Java

      I remember Wordperfect for Java - it was quite well done, I didn't find any bugs in the beta version, but performance was slow. I remember thinking I'd need a computer at least twice as fast to run it.

      This was on my PowerMac 7200/90, in '97 or thereabouts.

      --
      My God, it's Full of Source!
      OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
  17. Lets convince Corel to sell their code. by HanzoSan · · Score: 2, Insightful


    Maybe we can pull another blender or two, and buy Corel Draw, Word Perfect, etc.

    They were willing to sell Corel Linux so maybe they will sell some of the other stuff they were working on.

    I highly doubt Corel will do what SCO did, The blender company didnt do that.

    --
    If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
  18. Painter on Linux by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    Anyone know of a port? This is the only thing I still use on Windows.

  19. Re:Make WordPerfect Open Source! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I don't think it would work since I'm sure Vector has plans to sell WP in retail. While an OSS version of WP would be wonderful, I think the tangible benefits of such a venture would negate the cost:research ratio that fluctuates within their infrastructure.

    Which is nice.

  20. Statements made by Vector Capital in this article by Kircle · · Score: 4, Informative
    Does anyone have references to statements or whatever else by Vector Capital on their plans for Corel?

    Interesting quotes from this article:
    "At this point, nothing has been contemplated that would change [as a result of] this transaction," Alex Slusky, Vector Capital managing partner, said in an interview yesterday. "Current Corel management continues to run Corel."

    [Slusky] believes Corel is going to be "very successful" if it doesn't have to worry about all the costs and complexities of maintaining its public status.
    --

    -- Kircle

  21. Re:I missed corel draw. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The photo-realistic quality of a couple of those was incredible.

  22. poop. by twitter · · Score: 4, Insightful
    $124 million in 2003 however is a fair whack!

    Considering Microsoft pays about one billion dollars each time they lose an anti-trust lawsuit, $124 was nothing. They got to shut down a Linux distro and crippled Word Perfect, the then dominant comercial text editor and main competitor to Microsoft Office, Microsoft't big cash cow. It was a predatory practice and Corel decline in value of 75% reflects the result. 75% is much greater than the decline of other IT firms with as much going for them. Corell lost that value because Word Perfect lost it's market share, market share it could easily have maintained with it's Linux distribution. Lawfirms still use Word Perfect and they cry out for stable software underneath it. Had they been given that platform, they would have eaten it up and proved the value of a comercial Linux distribution five years ago as well as it is proven today. By purchasing 25% of Corel, Microsoft pushed back Linux competition five years, prevented an anti-trust lawsuit and gained all the fruits of predatory behavior. It saved them a minimum of a billion dollars and much more in lost sales revenue.

    --

    Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.

    1. Re:poop. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Unlike linux software, Microsoft software is so easy to install you don't need help.

    2. Re:poop. by spruce · · Score: 1

      They got to shut down a Linux distro and crippled Word Perfect, the then dominant comercial text editor and main competitor to Microsoft Office, Microsoft't big cash cow.

      How was MS able to do this? When you buy stock in a company, do you get to decide what products that company produces? If so - let's all buy MS stock and force them to stop making windows!

      Corell lost that value because Word Perfect lost it's market share, market share it could easily have maintained with it's Linux distribution.

      Okay - let's be generous and pretend Linux had a 5% market share at that time. How could they have easliy retained their marketshare with a desktop Word Processor selling on an OS that 95% of the world didn't use?

    3. Re:poop. by _|()|\| · · Score: 1
      Corell lost that value because Word Perfect lost it's market share, market share it could easily have maintained with it's Linux distribution.

      WordPerfect had so little market share to lose, and you can't blame the bastard Linux version on Microsoft. Corel Linux had some things going for it, but its loss can hardly be said to have set back Linux-based operating systems for five years.

      I'd love to see more Corel products ported to Linux. Hopefully, it will see how Linux, KDE, and GNOME have improved since their last effort.

  23. M$ fang marks are all over them. by twitter · · Score: 1
    Hmmm, Corel feels a pain in the ass, what is it? It's the head of a big snake from Redmond, what else? Duh.

    Apply your reasoning to their Microsoft stratagy. They continue to lose share, yet they continue to feed the beast that would destroy them. Do Linux, have a chance. Continue Windoze, die. What would you spend your efforts on? Oh yeah, you would continue with your oh so sucessful statagy of purchasing M$ licenses, development kits, and doing what M$ wants you to do, which is die. Good move. Next!

    --

    Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.

  24. and fast! by twitter · · Score: 4, Interesting
    Let's hope they revive that Linux package before Paladium swings into action. People want what they have and the people who want it are influential.

    There's a huge market of lawfirms just waiting for this one. They are sick to death of M$ nonsense and know about free software now. Between a Linux Word Perfect for their documents and printing and Star Office for M$ translation, Microsoft does not stand a chance there. I don't have to mention that government offices would be happy to have this too, do I?

    When free software makes it into those places, where everyone can see them, the myth of Microsoft dependence will be completely crushed. There's something about seeing free software running where you go for good advice that does way more than an IBM advert in the Wall Street Journal. Many good things will come from that.

    Go Go, Vector!

    --

    Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.

    1. Re:and fast! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Let's hope they revive that Linux package...

      But this takeover is being maneuvered behind shareholders' backs by MS stooges, perhaps partly because Corel's shareholders have pushed for the resumption of Linux support...

      http://corelrescue.com/pr-01.html

      http://corelrescue.com/MS-Connection.html

      Check out some gory details on the Corel Rescue website. Most shareholders have not voted and may not even know yet that Microsoft's friends are stealing their shares!

  25. great advantage to Vector in free software. by twitter · · Score: 4, Insightful
    a list of software companies owned by Vector. The majority of them seem to be the types of names you don't recognize unless you work in a specific field -- "enterprise software" tailored to a very specific business application. And like it or not, that usually means Windows these days.

    So, by purchasing a company with experience porting software to free they could establish a distro and port all their other stuff to free and save themselves that many coppies of M$ dependence and development costs? What could be better for specialty software than that?

    The direction Microsoft took Corel when they bought 25% of them and shut down their Linux work was obviously and disaserously wrong. Corel has continued to lose market share, even in government work where it once ruled. Hell, they used to rule the comercial text editor world. They did not lose out because Microsoft made something better, they lost out because Microsfot made Word Perfect into an expensive Windows only additional purchase most people would not make. They OS/2'd them, making Word Perfect more expensive than Word in all cases. That's easy to do when you own the platform and sell everyone else required libraries.

    There is still a market and it seems obvious that Linux is the way to go. Those who remember Word Perfect want it back on a stable platform. It will cost less for Vector to do things this way and customers will get more of what they want.

    --

    Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.

    1. Re:great advantage to Vector in free software. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Corel doesn't have any experience porting stuff to "free" (sic).

      Anyone who did know something about Linux no longer works there and didn't by the time Microsoft stepped in.

    2. Re:great advantage to Vector in free software. by Daniel+Dvorkin · · Score: 1

      That's what we Macheads have been saying for years. ;)

      Seriously, I think you're right; I just hope Vector/Corel sees it that way. It's blindingly obvious to you, me, and everyone else who pays attention that developing business software for Windows is a mug's game, because if you get successful enough, sooner or later M$ will crush you. (If you're very lucky, they might buy you out, but more likely they'll just whip up a messy hacked copy of your software -- and no matter how good or elegant your product may be, PHB's will buy the M$ product just because it's M$.) OTOH, develop for Linux or Mac OS, especially in a segment where there currently isn't a clearly defined market leader, and you have a good chance of building a fiercely loyal customer base.

      Like I said: you know this, I know this, and lots of other people know this -- but does Vector know this? Stay tuned ...

      --
      The correlation between ignorance of statistics and using "correlation is not causation" as an argument is close to 1.
    3. Re:great advantage to Vector in free software. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm afraid that you're remembering a history that never was.

      Corel was already a bit player when Microsoft invested in them. Microsoft has had a 90% share of the application suite market for a very long time.

      Just looking at the history of who owned Wordperfect should tell you all you need to know. Do you think that a highly successful product with a sizable share in the PC world would pass from Wordperfect Corp. to Novel, to Corel to Vector?

      In fact, it was after Microsoft invested in them that two or three BIG PC manufacturers, like HP, started bundling the Wordperfect suite with their systems.

      Wordperfect was late to market with a Windows version, and it cost them dearly. Chasing the Linux market has cost them as well. Despite all of the sound and fury, much of the Linux world revolves around the "free beer" concept, and I don't think that Corel had very many paying customers for their application software. Its sad really, becasue I think now they've thrown the baby out with the bath water. Wordperfect used to have a nicely profitable Wordperfect for Unix business, but that appears to have been caught up with the unprofitable Linux business and was killed as well.

      So, by purchasing a company with experience porting software to free they could establish a distro and port all their other stuff to free and save themselves that many coppies of M$ dependence and development costs? What could be better for specialty software than that?

      How about having paying customers? Most paying customers are going to be running desktop applications on Windows. Abandoning Windows could consign them to even less market share than they do now. ... Say, now that I think about it, that could be a Microsoft troll... Abandon the Windows market to seek that "Highly profitable, free development cost" Linux market. (Or in other words, find oblivion chasing after the "free beer" mentality Linux market and leave the profitable Windows market to us.) Dude, where do you work?

      Probably the easiest way for Wordperfect to start adding customers would be to revive the X11 Unix Wordperfect versions and start selling them. Now that the Mac has X11 support they might be able to sell there as well. (X11 on Mac might not be a popular interfact though.)

    4. Re:great advantage to Vector in free software. by dlparker · · Score: 1

      And some of us who remember Word Perfect (ver. 4.2 on DOS) still use it - WordPerfect 8 for Linux...

  26. Corel Linux.....*sigh* by vertical_98 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I still have a copy of v1.2 of Corel Linux. I never understood why it never caught on as a desktop linux. If they had done a good port of WP Office, I truly believe it would have been a Windows Killer.

    I used it as an X-server when I was learning about X-terminals (using Slack on the clients). If it hadn't been for the fact that Debian changed dpkg, effectively breaking Corel's version, I'd still be using it today probably. Oh well, Debian works great, just not as nice for desktop work.

    I thought about trying Xandros, but have hesitated, since Debian fullfils (sp?) all my server needs.

    Best of Luck to Corel, I hope beening owned by VC doesn't ruin them completely. I have fond memories of Corel Draw.

    Vertical

    --
    72 CD D7 52 D0 7E D8 47 44 91 D5 84 D1 59 F1 A9-This is my 128bit integer. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
  27. Hurrah! WordPerfect's not Canadian-owned anymore! by unfortunateson · · Score: 2, Informative

    That sounds like a strange headline... but WP's Canadian ownership hsa been a thorn in the side of companies that have to deal with the Canadian government.

    In a ploy to keep jobs in Canada, they require documents sent to them to be in WP format, versus the international standards of PDF for virtually every other country, or at least the MS Word standard used by virtually every major corporation.

    As a specialist in electronic submissions for a pharmaceutical company, it will greatly reduce my workload if Canada stops requiring WordPerfect.

    I have to go find the statistics, but I think that each time WordPerfect was sold (from WP Corp to Novell, to Corel, and now to VC), it was worth much much less.

    --
    Design for Use, not Construction!
  28. Re:Hurrah! WordPerfect's not Canadian-owned anymor by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    While this may in fact be true, there is a very good reason - the Canadian Government has invested VERY heavily in Corel Corporation. It's tragic to see them being purchased by a company for such a low cost - which I can assure you is much less than the amount invested over time by the Canadian Government.

    What this constitutes is another massive loss of government dollars due to poor management. Alias was a Canadian company until they started turning very low profit margins, when they were very rapidly snatched up. Now they're back on their feet and making very good capital - for U.S. stockholders.

    It's just a real shame to see this sort of thing happen for us Canadians - we've now essentially lost all of our government money invested into software. As a smalltime developer, I feel the pressure on a day to day basis to do most of my business with the U.S., which I find unfair, but for me it's just a fact of life.

    Hopefully Vector Capital will at least turn Corel around - just check out the Corel website - it's a total joke.

  29. What Linux market space? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    they could have easily dominated the Linux office suite market space.



    "Linux...market space". Isn't this an oxymoron? I suspect that most people who use Linux are "Free as in free beer" kind of people who aren't willing to spend money. And the commercial businesses that are willing to pay for their distributions most likely are using Linux as a server, so they have no need for Corel applications.

    Furthermore check out the Google Zeitgeist and look at the chart "Operating Systems used to Access Google".

    Windows 98: 30%

    Windows XP : 35%

    Windows 2000: 21%

    Windows NT: 4%

    Windows 95: 2%

    Mac: 3%

    Linux: 1%

    Other: 4%

    With competition from the Gimp and OpenOffice(how can you beat the price of free), what's the point for Corel?

  30. When MS were the good guys by Latent+Heat · · Score: 2, Insightful
    There was a time when MS were considered "good guys." Yeah, yeah, if you read "Accidental Empires" you learn Bill was always Bill from the beginning and was one step ahead in terms of sharp business practices than anyone else. But MS started out as the outsider/upstart.

    In the 1980's you had VAXen, some ran VMS, some ran UNIX, and then you had workstations, SUN, Apollo, SGI (largely UNIX although Apollo was some kind of its own thing): expensive hardware, vendor lock in, only thin source-code compatibility between generations (SUN going from Motorola to Intel (briefly) to SPARC), expensive operations (your grant needed to hire or share one or more "bearded programmers" to operate them and write custom software for them).

    Then you had PC's and DOS -- the rootstock of Windows. PC's were like PDP-11's and DOS was like RT-11: low level, cheap, lab computers that an engineer or scientist could hack up their own software to control an experiment. PC's were looked down upon by the CS department-academic computing department establishment as "not real computers", and engineer and scientist types looked at academic computing department types as arrogant so-and-so's who wanted to siphon money out of one's grant. PC's were the second wave of what the Apple-II started -- computers for the masses and liberation from the computer elites.

    With PC's you rode the wave -- cheap clone computers, cycles of binary-compatible Intel processors, every imaginable type of hardware (A/D and D/A to control those lab experiments), shrink-wrap software, third-party development tools (MS compilers always blew chunks: Borland's Pascal and later C and C++ was in another league, and you had language choices while UNIX seemed to offer any language you wanted provided it was C or later C++).

    And then came Windows. You could ignore Windows 3 and 3.1, but by Windows 95 and NT 4, it was pretty much rammed down your throat. But around that time, the choices were pretty much switching over to the Mac, and the closed-hardware Mac lacked all of the hardware add-ons from Data Translation, and expensive workstations were getting replaced with cheap PC's, so programming for X/Motif wasn't even on the table). If you could live with the performance limitations of Visual Basic, you had an easy way to develop apps; if you wanted performance you had to wade through volumes of the Windows API, but having done that there was kind of a reluctance to learn that much over again to do GUI's on other systems.

    So this Linux thing comes along and on '86 hardware as well. And then Bill is Bill: what he had been doing to clone computer makers all along he starts to do to the "little guy." Ghosting over a copy of Windows to a clone you put together from parts for your lab was no big deal until all this fanfare of a crackdown in the form of activation. The University buys a mass MS site license so we all switch from Word Perfect to Word, and this summer the University drops the site license because MS tightens the screws on the terms, and we worry that the BSA is going to bust down the door to our lab.

    I have been looking over my shoulder, and I have looked at Java, and I have looked at Linux/Gnome/KDE. Our grant funding is way pared back in these tough times, and we are down to 20 percent share of one UNIX programmer who could care less about setting up a Linux box for the lab, and our engineer guy who is a digital-logic design genius has been thrashing around for over a year trying to get a Linux box up and running but doesn't have the time to swap network cards and fool around with getting drivers.

    And just as Java was supposed to make big inroads on the desktop by now, the same was true for Linux. The Engineering library had put in a raft of Linux boxes, but I guess none of the engineering students knew what to do with them that they have all been reverted to Windows.

    My engineer logic-design pal and I have talked about how a Linux box would be a good as a Windows box if to the user the thing were just a GUI

    1. Re:When MS were the good guys by MegaFur · · Score: 1

      For myself, personally, I began to seriously dislike MS when I found out that my Win 3.11 was woefully behind the times when compared with the Mac and OS/2. Of course, first I had to find out that those other two OSes existed and overcome the standard "I-don't-want-to-learn-how-to-use-Macintosh-it-loo ks-strange-and-different" syndrome. But about a month after all that, I began to get seriously dissasisfied with Win 3.11. It felt like I'd been conned. Nobody had even told me that there was this alternative (OS/2). It was as if MS was some big monopolistic entity. Oh wait...

      The clincher was when I got this "magazine" from MS about a month after I registered my Win 3.11. It was really all just an MS commercial in the guize of a magazine. It had the opposite effect of the one intended.

      --
      Furry cows moo and decompress.
  31. Re:And not to forget the truly spectacular Netwind by A_Non_Moose · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    (snipped to take out of context)

    I've got one running behind me running me.

    /me holds up a large cannon plug

    So where does thing go?

    Wait.

    Never mind....

    /me convers ears

    TMI, TMI.

    --
    Have you read the moderator guidelines? Well, have you, PUNK? (and I want a Karma: Gnarly option)
  32. Re:Hurrah! WordPerfect's not Canadian-owned anymor by AlienRelics · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Word DOC format is not a standard. It is a proprietary format that requires you to own Windows to open them properly. Same with Wordperfect WPF files.

    PDF, at least, has a free reader available. And isn't RTF an open standard? Somehow MS mucks that up, too, an RTF of the exact same text and formatting saved from Word is twice the file size as one saved from Final Writer from my Amiga. Hey, got in my obligatory "I miss my Amiga!" post! ;') I am hoping when (crossing my fingers) the new PPC Amiga OS 4 comes out, the new Corel owners give some thought to coming out with Wordperfect for the Amiga again, and porting CorelDraw suite and Bryce over to it.

    BEGIN RANT
    I get so sick of everyone sending me Word DOC files, assuming I have MS Word. The size is bloated, and loading across versions is buggy so even if I had Word installed I might not see it as intended if I don't have the same version as the sender. Oh, and let's not forget Viruses. Everything MS touches seems to be a Typhoid Mary.
    END RANT

  33. Re:Hurrah! WordPerfect's not Canadian-owned anymor by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Hurrah? You're serious?

    Corel joins a long, growing list of formerly Canadian companies that are now owned by Americans.

    Do we have anything left in this country that ISN'T American-owned anymore? Even Laura Secord (you know, the chocolate company named after the Canadian patriot that snitched out the American invaders) is owned by bloody Americans now. As is Tim Hortons. The list goes on and on and is truly appalling.

    Canadian? What's that? It's just a brand-name now (or an "inconvenience" as you put it).

  34. SOHO in a box. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Actually I'm surprised that someone hasn't extended the "office solutions in a box" idea? Look what already comes with a netwinder. How about "Exchange server in a box", or "Document solutions in a box", "Accounting solutions in a box", etc. The SOHO market will love you(1). Throw in the OpenMosix clustering solution, and everything scales.

    (1) Donald Norman in "The Invisible Computer" already sees things headed that way.

  35. Will we see WP Office back on Linux? by Leomania · · Score: 1

    As one of the people who purchased the expensive version of WP Office 2000 for Linux directly from Corel (about $175 IIRC) almost purely to show support for their Linux endeavors, I hope they can revisit this product. With the 2-3 years passage since they made it available, Wine has improved so markedly that I would hope many of the issues of the program needing an update of some RPMs to work on newer distros would go away (or at least be greatly reduced). And frankly, they need a better multi-platform GUI toolkit. The one they were using was, well, kinda cheesy IMHO. Not that OpenOffice.org is all THAT much better, but it is a bit better.

    I kept WPO on my laptop up through Mandrake 9.0, but that's the end of the line. Better or not, I've thrown my support behind OpenOffice.org. Being able to use the same program on Windows, Linux, Solaris and OSX (well, in that horrible X11 flavor currently) makes it deserving of support. I have filed at least one bug report and while it took some time, it was eventually fixed and I got an email about it. I don't know of any company other than some EDA firms with that kind of service.

    But I digress... I do want to see Corel do well; their office suite could still help make Linux a reasonable choice for a Desktop OS for more corporate environments. This, as has been stated more times than any of us could count, would be a good thing.

    - Leo

    --
    You don't use science to show that you're right, you use science to become right.
  36. Bryce by The_Pey · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I truly hope that nothing disasterous happens with Bryce or any of the other graphic software packages that Corel produced. For those who don't know, Corel acquired Bryce after Metacreations fell apart. Bryce is a relatively inexpensive "natural landscape renderer" similar to World Construction Set or other packages. Some very beautiful renderings were made with Bryce.

    --
    Hmmm...
  37. Re:programming PostScript by jonom · · Score: 1

    It's a lot more complicated than html. It's not a markup language, it's a stack-based programming language.

  38. What makes you think WP for Linux is coming? by DesScorp · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Come on, Linux users. Let's fess up at something...how many of us have actually BOUGHT commercial Linux software? A show of hands, please?

    Ahh, just as I thought. All 3 of you.

    While some people have actually PAID for thier distros, most have not.

    "Pay? Are you INSANE? I can just download it".

    I've never paid for Linux software. I confess. Every distro I've ever used, every piece of Linux software I've ever installed has been cost free. Either I downloaded it, got it in the mail, or got in a book of some kind. The closest I've ever come is shipping and handling in the addition to the 5 bucks or so the CheapBytes CD cost me. How much of that money do you think went to the distro, hmmm?

    My point in all of this is that commercial software outfits want to make money, and the dot com boom is over, ladies and gentlemen. No more crap about how free market exposure will somehow lead to profit in the future. Let's take Corel's expierience with their Linux offerings.

    Corel Exec: "So how much money have we made from our Linux software? Distro and apps combined?"

    Marketroid: "It's phenomenal! We've got millions of downloads! A LOT of people are using our software! We're getting huge mindshare here!

    Corel Exec: "Ok...so, how many people have paid for the software? What's our profit margin projected to be?"

    Marketroid: "Profit? Oh, no money's coming in right now. But this is giving us great mindshare, so we'll have tremendous profit opportunities in the future!"

    Corel Exec: "That software costs a lot to develop, even with help from volunteer open source coders. What are we supposed to pay OUR coders with? Mindshare?"

    Some people are going to roast me for this, but we've gotten used to free, and we even have a nasty tendancy to TRY to discourage use of commercial Linux software if theres an alternative. Whenever someone recommends StarOffice for small business usage, there's the inevitable flood of posts going "Why? Just use OpenOffice. You don't have to pay for that".

    These people that have bought Corel know this as well, and the difference this time is it's THEIR money on the line, not the cash of faceless stockholders. Until we actively embrace, and PAY for commercial Linux software on a large scale basis, there's not going to be much of it available at all.

    --
    Life is hard, and the world is cruel
    1. Re:What makes you think WP for Linux is coming? by _|()|\| · · Score: 1
      how many of us have actually BOUGHT commercial Linux software?

      Speak for yourself. I've bought WordPerfect, Opera, Win4Lin, a three-month subscription to WineX, and about a dozen games. I usually download Red Hat ISOs, but I recently bought SuSE Linux 8.2.

      It's true that many Linux users are price sensitive, and it's true that the barrier to entry is rising, as you have to compete with Mozilla, Evolution, OpenOffice, and others. However, the market is growing, so you'll only see more paying users.

    2. Re:What makes you think WP for Linux is coming? by VivianC · · Score: 1

      Come on, Linux users. Let's fess up at something...how many of us have actually BOUGHT commercial Linux software? A show of hands, please?

      Aside from buying distros (Corel, Red Hat, Mandrake, Slackware), I have also purchased applications such as Word Perfect for Linux.

      Of course, I also bought Corel stock, so I might not be the sharpest knife in the drawer...

      --
      Viv

      Gmail invites for ip
    3. Re:What makes you think WP for Linux is coming? by Reziac · · Score: 1

      There are certain commercial applications I *need*, or linux is of no everyday use to me. WordPerfect and PhotoPaint are the two foremost. And if I have to pay for 'em, well, it's better than doing without. After all, I paid for 'em to use on Windows, so what's the difference?

      --
      ~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
  39. Had to pay for it, but I got some.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You can't keep us pimply faced nerds down. And she was a 10.

  40. 80% Voted in Favour? by BlackBolt · · Score: 1

    I think (correct me if I'm wrong), if you don't vote, the default is a 'Yea', which throws into doubt the 80% 'for' number... it's probably more like "20% voted, and they ALL voted NO, but 80% don't care, which are counted as YES votes...". PASSED WITH A GLORIOUS 80%!

    It would be awesome if this happened in Politics, and the default vote was something really moronic to try to encourage voting....

    "20% voted for Bush, 20% voted for Gore, but since 60% didn't vote, our new President AGAIN is a TI pocket calculator. ALL HAIL THE GREAT COSINE!!"

    1. Re:80% Voted in Favour? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "20% voted for Bush, 20% voted for Gore, but since 60% didn't vote, our new President AGAIN is a TI pocket calculator. ALL HAIL THE GREAT COSINE!!"

      With those choices, I'd pick the calculator anyway.

    2. Re:80% Voted in Favour? by BlackBolt · · Score: 1

      LOL!!

  41. Gates has never been honest. by twitter · · Score: 1

    Before he dumbpster dived BASIC, before he wrote his infamous open letter, he was a theif.

    --

    Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.

  42. eh!?!? by DABANSHEE · · Score: 1

    Surelly individual Corel shareholders don't have to sell their shares to Vector if they don't want to?

  43. Re:And not to forget the truly spectacular Netwind by gmhowell · · Score: 1

    Wow, only $400? Incredible, I can't even buy a computer for that price. Oh, wait, I can. Not the greatest machine, but a damned site faster than the netwinder.

    I really wanted NC's to take off. A little more than a dumb terminal, a lot less (in terms of management headaches) than a PC. But the price point was always way the hell off. Now, at $400, I can buy an actual PC. With a minimum of effort, I can set up any of a dozen linux distros to be a terminal server. But, as it's a full fledged PC, I can offload some processor and/or bandwidth intensive programs directly to the terminal.

    I see plenty of places where one of these can be useful. Sadly, at $400, they're still way too much.

    --
    Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. -John Lennon
  44. WordPerfect Office 2000 for Linux by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    I was a beta tester for this product and to me, it held a lot of potential. It just came a bit too early, ie. before
    (1) KDE got a reasonnable end-user manageable print infrastructure, in version 2.2 and
    (2) XF86 got fontconfig.

    KDE has progressed since, CUPS is almost everywhere in the Free *nix world and XF86 now has a modern font management infrastructure. Heck, even WINE has apparently improved a fair bit since the time they were involved with it -- for those who don't remember, they used libwine to port their s/w to Linux. The improved underlying (sp?) layers could only help Corel in developping a "must have" upgrade to the Linux/*BSD port of their office suite.

    I really hope that we could see WPO v11 out for Linux/*BSD, as there is no current FOSS OA software that can hold a candle to it. What is really holding the Free Unices from the desktop is more on the *application* side of things, *not the OS* side. With the current wave/rash of serious M$-centric virii & worms, the next wave of Linux distros (or even of the various BSDs) mated with a decent port of WPO v11 could be something many wary CIOs could no longer ignore. With the amount of time & money being wasted on fighting MSBlaster and co, how could anyone ignore a platform that would be immune to such malware?

    When CNN is starting covering MS-Centric malware extensively (from what I've seen in the last 2/3 days), this could be a sales pitch hard to dismiss easily.

  45. How about .NET? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Corel was previously contracted to port .NET to FreeBSD if I remember correctly. Will that still happen?

  46. Corel's first Linux attempt was 3 years to early.. by WoTG · · Score: 1

    I wouldn't be surprised if new versions of Corel Draw and their other graphics applications are eventually released for Linux. I have always felt that Corel was a little too early getting into Linux to actually profit from their efforts - mind you, they did get a great temporary run in stock price during the "Linux" stock mania.

    But now, three years later, porting is easier - they've done the work on their sources already, and WINE has improved considerably. The market is bigger - Linux is gaining quickly in many computing niches, including multimedia work. And porting to Linux get's them halfway to porting to Apple gear (albeit not in a native mode).

    As for their office suite, I wouldn't hold my breath. I'm going to bet that OpenOffice will dominate the Linux arena for office suite software (unless Microsoft comes along, which is quite a ways in the future). If you're going to switch people from Windows to save some dough, one might as well switch to an adequate OSS office suite like OpenOffice.

  47. Wine has nothing to do with porting apps to linux by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If I ever pay for a Corel application advertised as working with linux, and find that wine crap in there, I will get my money back.

  48. You mean USians. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Canada is actually on a continent named "North America." This gives you the priviledge of being able to say you are "Americans." The politically correct term you seek is "USians." I am surprised to have to explain this to you because I have heard that Canadian Americans are so politically correct that even someone who abuses and cripples children (by raising them to speak only French) is not given the death penalty.

  49. Where's the government bailout? by CHaN_316 · · Score: 1

    Actually, I'm suprised that the Canadian government hasn't bailed out Corel in order to keep it a Canadian owned company. This is actually very un-canadian.

    For those who are remotely familiar with Canadian politics, you'll know that each election, Ontario and Quebec basically dictates which party will be in power because they have the majority of seats for representatives.

    Typically the Liberal party (who is in power now) strongly protects any company that is in Ontario or Quebec. *COUGH* Bombardier* *COUGH* AIR CANADA *COUGH*. They have a political interest to keep their voters in these key provinces happy. Heaven forbid a single job or company be lost in Quebec or Ontario!

    I'm suprised that the Canadian government hasn't bailed out Corel. Government intervention always solves problems because if we throw more money at a problem it will be fixed.............. right? :|

    Shrug, maybe Corel wasn't bilingual enough, and it pissed off the voters in Quebec j/k.

    From the left coast of Canada

    -CHaN

    --
    "There is no spoon." - The Matrix
  50. Word Perfect 5.1 for linux by RGRistroph · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I would consider between $20 and $50 a fair price to pay for a one-person license to a linux version of Word Perfect 5.1. It should work just like the DOS version, including a graphical print-preview option, that could use SVGAlib.

    I would give a lot more than that to a fund that would buy the source (well documented assembly, from what I understand) and put it under the GPL.

    It can't be that much work; there was a version of this for the SCO unix, and there are even directions on how to get that binary to run on linux.

    1. Re:Word Perfect 5.1 for linux by Reziac · · Score: 1

      I still use WP5.1 DOS every day. A complete package still sells for $30 to $80 at swap meets, so it's not like there isn't demand. And while I didn't get specific in my other post, it's one of the apps I can't live without. And yeah, the probability of the source code being lost forever in one of these corporate reworkings terrifies me.

      As to WP5.1 being GPL'd, if Corel played it right, they could work that as a hook to get more people interested in their products, thus: "old version free, privately-coded updates of old version free, and look what we can do for you with the current version!"

      I sorta collect WP versions -- I think I have 18 copies at present, and one is WP4.2 for SCO/UNIX. Someone tried to get my copy to run on linux and failed -- but you say there are instructions for getting it to work??

      --
      ~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
    2. Re:Word Perfect 5.1 for linux by RGRistroph · · Score: 1
      You have to have a copy of SCO/Unix to get the .so files you need out of there and copy them to the linux.

      I searched for the instructions I remembered seeing, and I found this, which has instructions to do the same thing but isn't the page I was thinking off.

      As you observe, the old copies still sell for a good price. The real solution is to get corel to re-assemble and re-link the binary for unix and sell it for a reasonable price.

      The alternitive is to start writing a replacement from scratch.

    3. Re:Word Perfect 5.1 for linux by Reziac · · Score: 1

      My WP4.2 for SCO/UNIX is on low-denisity floppies, which I was able to archive (I vaguely recall jumping thru some hoops involving a raw copy with some old Norton util for DOS) and could be read by a linux user, so at least that part is accessable. I didn't care much for WP4.2 DOS, and the SCO version looks identical per the docs, so I didn't get too excited one way or the other. More of an exercise in Ancient Software For Collectors. :)

      Anyway, thanks for the link to the HowTo. On looking for one of the downloads (dead link) mentioned therein, I found http://www.linuxmafia.com/wpfaq/, which I'll have to peruse more closely as well.

      Corel ported WP6.1 DOS to Watcom C (it now uses the DOS4GW extender), which I'd think would be more readily portable to linux than WP's own proprietary flavour of ASM, yes? and sad to say, the source is more likely to be intact. Novell managed to LOSE source for all the (15) patches for NW/DRDOS7 during their custody, and one suspects they were no more careful with the WP source, since their interest was reputed only in Groupwise. (Corel told me that Novell handed them such a mess just with user registrations, that they had to hire an outside firm to straighten it out; even so, some were lost for good, including all of mine.)

      I do agree, it would make sense for Corel to recompile WPDOS for linux, and offer it for sale at a bargain price -- 5.1 would surely sell pretty well, and 6.1 has its uses too. The OEM price for current versions of the WPWin suite is less than $15 (in lots as small as five units!), so it's not like Corel has ever been greedy about pricing for sales they don't have to support. Once ported over, every sale would be free money that Corel desperately needs.

      Coding a replacement from scratch.. well, you'd have to convince interested parties that we old WP5.1 users DON'T want it "improved", we want it identical :) And WP5.1 users are accustomed to the program being 100% bug-free (or at least closer to that than any other app I've ever seen) -- not real likely in a volunteer project. Even so, it would have my support if only to help keep WP alive.

      --
      ~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
    4. Re:Word Perfect 5.1 for linux by RGRistroph · · Score: 1

      I think WP 6 would be ok, but the people I know who use WP the most all prefer 5.1, and they say it is faster. I don't care so much, except that I think you should be able to operate it from a linux console. 5.1 is, according to rumour, the last version written in assembler.

      Some people use WP 5.1 because they like the fact that they can fit and several printer drivers on a single bootable dos diskette and take their entire system with them to school, for last minute editing and then printing. This may also be true of 6, I don't know.

      If we decide to re-write, we would keep WP's interface, and probably the wp file format. Writing in C would be fine but you have to realize these people have very high expectations with regard to speed and the size of the executable. I think bugs and such would be tolerated as long as there was clear progress being made. If there were a one to five programmer company out there, working on this, I would be willing to through quite a bit of money on buying successive editions in hopes of funding the end result.

    5. Re:Word Perfect 5.1 for linux by Reziac · · Score: 1

      That's the bush I was beating around [g] -- WP6.x DOS has its fans, but the unmovable userbase is WP5.1. And the expectation isn't solely for speed (because with today's machines, any DOS app flies) -- tho it can still be installed and run perfectly well on a 2-floppy XT!! but more because its behaviour is 100% controllable, predictable, and consistent, and it never, EVER crashes or eats your document. Consequently, I don't think the entrenched userbase would be at all tolerant of bugs, unless they are clearly "work in progress" issues and are definitely going to be fixed; the end product would have to be *clean*. The ivory-tower attitude some volunteer coders bring with 'em would go over very poorly with WP5.1 users, especially those with the savvy to do proper beta testing. (Did I mention I'm widely feared as "the beta tester who can break anything" ?? :)

      The WP5.1 file format should definitely be kept not only because of the vast reams of documents WP users already have in that format, but also for interoperability, because after plaintext, it's probably the most widely portable format among other word processors. Also, it has its own virtues -- it's reasonably human-readable, and I think evolved as it did because it's part of why WP works as it does: stuff like headers, footers, text boxes, images, etc. are treated as separate *documents* within the same *file*. This is why WP behaves much more consistently and more controllably than Word when it comes to applying formatting to a single element, such as a textbox.

      Corel's reincarnation of WP6.1 in Watcom C is definitely buggier than the last WPCorp/Novell edition (not sure what that was written in; the EXEs are so similar that there's no real clue), and both require a 386 or better. But I've been given to understand that WPCorp had its own compiler.

      Of course, ideally Corel can be convinced to throw WP5.1 source to the wide world... Is there any organised group in contact with 'em? At one point I was talking to Bruce Perens about this, but about that time his relationship with Corel went to hell, and nothing more was said about it.

      Speaking of opensourcing, a Novell seminar dude told me that they're considering it for Netware 3.x. How'd that be for making oldtimer reprobates who love source all happy -- WP5.1 in the environment it was designed for, Netware 3.x !!

      --
      ~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
  51. Corel Ventura DTP Software by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Corel Ventura DTP Software was excellent except for a few (and only a few) REALLY annoying small bugs which if fixed, it would have been superb! I hope they release it anew and add the polish needed. I am referring to an old version (8 I think) so maybe it is better now anyway?

  52. Interesting by CooCooCaChoo · · Score: 1

    However, I would be interested to see where they're going head in the next couple of years. For me, I would love to see Corel have a come back, however, they need to do the following:

    1) Listen to customers. There is a reason why people don't use Corel Graphics Suite for in their production environment, find out the problems and fix them. Talk to people, find out the issues. Indesign 2 is making BIG inroads into Quarks territory because they neglected the Mac market. Corel is in a strong position by the fact that they produce a Mac and Windows version of Graphics Suite 11.

    2) Wordperfect Suite is still plagued by bugs. Again, talk to CIO's and IS staff, find out the issues they have with it and fix them. Simply screaming that Microsoft is the devil and they use voodoo magic to stop users from using different software is rubbish.

    3) Start concerntrating on getting their Mac software in line with their competition. They've done a good job with Painter 8, however, they need to build on their success and not simply sit back and rest of their lorals.

    4) Team up with Codeweavers to that existing customers can run Wordperfect Suite on Codeweavers Crossover Office. Label it as an "unsupported feature", however, it will win cudos from the Linux community with out the need to invest thousands in having a seperate product line.

    --

    "The difference between pornography and erotica is the lighting" - Woody Allen

  53. I wouldn't mind to see WP come back to Linux by ducomputergeek · · Score: 1
    We had a copy of Corel Linux back in the day at the office I worked in and loved having WP running on Linux. There are still many people out there that still like WP instead of Word, I am one of them. WP does everything I need with out the annoying "We are detecting you are doing x, let us screw up all the margins and stuff!".

    Star/Openoffice has come a LONG way, but its still not quite there yet. I wouldn't even mind to pay the retail for Corel office for Linux if it cost the what about $100 in the store.

    Believe it or not, if Linux had more brand name programs ported to the OS, the more people I know would switch and abandon Windows in a heart beat. Up until this last month I worked in an architecture/graphics design firm and started to deploy MAYA on Linux and the two graphic artists loved it and the hardware was cheaper than Macs. (I have nothing against MAC, in fact my primary computer is a Powerbook).

    I know the OpenSource Zeleots would like to see us all run 100% free software, but I much rather see good quality apps even if I do have to pay a reasonable amount of money for them. Until programs like Photoshop and Final Cut Pro make it to Linux, Mac's will proably continue to be my *iux box of choice, despite its high hardware cost. Sorry, while GIMP is great for the casual user, there are things that I can do in 3 steps that it takes 8 in GIMP (like beveled text) and time is money.

    If we could get a major name brand office suite for Linux, like Corel Office and quickbooks, then at the company I work for today, we would use Linux on all further white boxes. Hell, we can get a 1.2Ghz white box with 128MB ram for like $200 that will last like 3 - 4 years if not more, which is more than enough for someone doing wordprocessing or basic spreadsheet jobs.

    --
    "The problem with socialism is eventually you run out of other people's money" - Thatcher.
  54. Ownership and Greenmail by fm6 · · Score: 1
    The direction Microsoft took Corel when they bought 25% of them and shut down their Linux work was obviously and disaserously wrong. Corel has continued to lose market share, even in government work where it once ruled.
    Your understanding of Microsoft's investment in Corel is simplistic. They didn't buy "25% of Corel". The bought a bunch of non-voting shares for a price that amounted to 25% of Corel's market capitalization. Given that Corel has been bleeding money since forever (that's what killed the Borland merger), this amounts to a simple gift, and not a very big one. Of course, giving someone money gives you some influence, but hardly total. You certainly can't blame Microsoft for the fate of any version of WordPerfect -- the Windows version was already commercially dead when Corel acquired it, the Linux version was a feature-deficient joke, and the Java version (yes there was a Java version) was dead almost before it was released.

    Why did Microsoft throw all that money at Corel? OK, the official reason, to subsidize Corel's .NET efforts, isn't very plausible. But neither is the idea that they thought WordPerfect was any threat to them. Especially not Linux WordPerfect. My own guess is that this was a quid pro quo for Corel settling its patent lawsuits against Microsoft. By paying Corel off with an "investment", Microsoft avoids some taxes on the money. They did precisely the same thing with Borland -- before Borland started work on its Linux IDE!

    1. Re:Ownership and Greenmail by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      http://corelrescue.com/MS-Connection.html

  55. Ventura Publisher by tfulton2 · · Score: 1

    ...used to be a Xerox product, then Corel ran it in the ground. I hope the new owners will appreciate the tendency to go with the simple things that work, and place more emphasis on the quality of long document, SGML-compliant publishing package that Ventura was in 1991.