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Florida Proposes Taxing Local LANs
Vellmont writes "From the state that brought you the 2000 presidential election debacle, now comes the proposal to tax your LAN. The Orlando Business Journal is reporting that the the state of Florida is thinking about putting a 9% tax on LANs within the state. Exactly what they will be taxing isn't clear, since the tax amounts to 9% of... something. Will taxing the electrical wires within your home be next?"
[FLORIDA]. What more can you say about a state that can't even figure out voting?
"Remember when the U.S. had a drug problem, and then we declared a War On Drugs, and now you can't buy drugs anymore?"
Because it wasn't taxed yet
ASCII stupid question, get a stupid ANSI
That's why the DMCA, TCPA, copyright/trademark law, wiretap laws, etc. work perfectly. At least in this case, there is no chance at all that this proposed tax will actually happen. Next they will try to tax people who _think_ about buying something on the net, or ponder putting gas in their cars. Frigging idiots.
(Idiotic laws/implementation is part of why SCO is trying to pull off crazy moves)
--
I hear there are two types of people in Florida... Really really old people, and their parents.
+1 for good karma, love for the DMCA, SCO, and low user id.
From the state that brought you the 2000 presidential election debacle
Would that be Texas?
Are they going to audit anyone with a computer and an email address?
8==8 Bones 8==8
Heck, take 100 percent. Anything I can do to help.
Why is it called COMMON sense when so few people have it?
> Exactly what they will be taxing isn't clear, since the tax amounts to 9% of... something.
Clearly, they'll charge you 94,371.84 bytes per megabyte.
Presumably you can pay by simply sending them a big e-message.
Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
It sounds like a crappy idea any way you slice it, but from reading the article it looks like they are talking about taxing the purchase of the LAN equipment, rather than taxing/metering of usage itself.
What I don't understand is why this would be treated differently than buying desktop organizers or office chairs.
Morons.
according to this article: "Computer networks would be taxed at that percent on either annual lease payments or depreciation."
Why do I h8 apple?
The Lanquisition!
NOBODY expects the LANquisition! Our chief weapon is surprise...surprise and fear...fear and surprise.... Our two weapons are fear and surprise...and ruthless efficiency.... Our *three* weapons are fear, surprise, and ruthless efficiency...and an almost fanatical devotion to the IRS.... Our *four*...no... *Amongst* our weapons.... Amongst our weaponry...are such elements as fear, surprise.... I'll come in again.
The original intent of most communications taxes was to subsidize the government's cost for the publically provided communications infrastructure... if the gov't is going to be supplying me with a free GigaBit ethernet LAN, then sure, they can tax it's use.
Get with the program people... sounds as wacky as Seattle's proposed tax on espresso!
MadCow.
I used to have a sig, but I set it free and it never came back.
This is all just an attempt to take back the coveted title of The Doofus State from California. We reacquired it thanks to our upcoming election. (If Schwarzenegger wins, it's Total Recall, I suppose.)
"Destroy science and religion. Science would re-emerge exactly the same; but not religion." - Penn Jillette, paraphrased
Should 95% appear to small, be thankful I don't take it all, 'cause I'm the taxman, yeah, I'm the taxman.
If you drive your car, I'll tax the street, if you take a walk, I'll tax your feet, if you get too cold, I'll tax the heat, if you take the bus, I'll tax your seat, TAXMAN!!!
They say the first thing to go is your penis. Well, it's either that or your brain. I forget which...
If it's by the byte, for heavily black/jewish democratic networks 1MB= 1024kB. On republican networks 1MB will = 1000kB.
Oh...and will they count hanging patch cords? What about ones that are plugged in, but haven't fully clicked into the port, and fall out during counting?
God help Florida users if the government learns of half versus full duplex...
Please help metamoderate.
Well, if the RIAA can discover "virtual" CD burners in raids, maybe they'll tax "virtual ISPs", or "server potential" which would be the result of some weird formula involving CPU types and speeds, RAM complements, etc...
I can see the headlines now. "Joseph McMurphy has been artrested in Altamonte Springs, Florida, for allegedly possessing the equivalent of 6 Internet servers without paying network wiring taxes. This amount, roughly equivalent to 60 small Web sites or 600 personal sites......."
Honey, I shrunk the Cygwin
There are some amazingly difficult terminology problems for them to define:
home be next?
Well lets see, I pay tax on my telephone bills, on my power bill, on my gas bill. I pay it on any wires I buy to install in my house and I pay tax on my house itself. What isn't taxed within my house?
0xfeedface
What a great way to encourage businesses to setup shop in your state! I'm sure companies will flock to Florida now.
...right after I finish writing one for SCO.
Wha'?! It's what?
You know what?
Actually, as it turns out, because of some voting confusion, for every LAN installation, you'll be expected to pay approximately 9% of Pat Buchanan to the state of Florida. Pat Buchanan could not be reached for comment.
This sig has been temporarily disconnected or is no longer in service
I've pretty much grown use to shite like this from our legislature. When they're not too busy cutting money from education or giving HMO's a get-out-of-lawsuit-free card, they occasionally manage to do something I find surprising and refreshing, but no less assinine.
I think this law is fine, but I say reverse it: instead of levying a tax on private companies for their LANs, how about they levy a tax on themselves for every piece of copper and fiber in the state, county, and city government networks. Then they should take that money and invest it in supporting the bits of Florida's economy that aren't tourism or hospitality, and see how that works out.
Fucktards.
Yes, my only tool is a hammer. And you're starting to look like a nail.
Because it is easier than cutting spending.
No, they're not monitoring traffic. They're planning to tax lease payments (assuming you lease your network equipment) or depreciation costs (assuming you purchase it and deduct the depreciation costs from your taxes).
The reason that you don't understand it is because it's fucking insane. I'm all for taxing businesses, the wealthy, etc. for their fair share but this is ridiculous on so many levels.
If this tax is to be fair, then they have to tax any other business leases (e.g. equipment) and depreciation on any other business assets at the same rate (assuming this isn't already done, which I doubt). If they propose this "tax parity," the shit will hit the fan in FL and this tax will disappear.
What will probably happen however is that they'll put it up to a vote and a bunch of ancient Palm Beach County residents will fuck up the butterfly ballot and the tax will pass.
Now that I've said all of that, if the proceeds from this tax were used to set up low cost (~$20/mo or less) statewide broadband access (available to individuals and businesses), regardless of location then perhaps this would be a good thing. More thank likely though the money's just going to go to that other Bush's campaign war chest.
BFL
There's one thing computing teaches you, and that's that there's no point to remembering everything.
--Doug Copland
Funny, I could swear it was businesses moving to other states...
AC comments get piped to
Here's why you'll start seeing more crazy-sounding initiatives like this "lan tax":
1. Outsourcing jobs overseas = massive amounts of lost taxes for USA. Since IT jobs were hit the hardest and California was the hottest IT area, it doesn't take a genius to figure out one substantial reason why they're in a budget crisis (which is a taste of things to come for our federal budget).
2. Huge tax cuts without requirements on how it should be spent = lost tax revenues that might not be spent at all or spent in ways that improve the economy. This is kinda like giving a total stranger $100K and expecting him to spend it in ways that help you while not giving him any expectations on how to spend it (i.e. he can spend it all on building offshore infrastructure to move even more US jobs overseas!).
3. Our president's failure to build consensus in the UN to attack Iraq and then being exposed for making false justification statements means that other countries are less willing to send their young soldiers to die in Iraq. This means more of OUR taxes going to pay for this ongoing fiasco which will likely INCREASE the odds of future terrorist attacks & boycotts against US-made products.
4. and so on including our mounting budget deficit which is like running up a huge credit card bill with mounting interest that YOU and I must pay later with...you guessed it--more freaking taxes than EVER given the aging demographics of babyboomers and their impact on social security, medicare and reduced collection of income taxes from them as they retire.
NOTE: $100K is roughly how much VP. Cheney will save in taxes in one year due to the Bush tax cuts. Since that money has to come from somewhere, many of our brave soldiers sacrificing their lives in Iraq will receive PAY CUTS of around $200/month.
Don't be surprised if you find important services like public schools and homeland security facing massive budget cuts in the future--it doesn't HAVE to happen but I don't see a way out if we continue managing our government in the most idiotic way I've seen in decades.
I feel sorry for the poor soul who'll get elected as our president next because he's gonna have an almost impossible task on his hands (he'll need to take massive and very unpopular action to fix this mess being created by the current politicians).
Because we need to build multi-billion dollar missile defense systems that don't even work to protect us from terrorists who don't even own sophisticated missile systems. It's all very logical, really.
Because it wasn't taxed yet
Where do you live?
Around here, when we were first permitted to get to the Internet via a phone line, there was already a tax on every phone bill. Then the cable folks supplied Internet service, and part of every cable bill is a tax. I've bought a few wires (thin ethernet first, then the hub that the vendors have forced on us for the last few years, all to connect a few home computers, and part of every purchase is a tax.
We need electricity to run our computers, and part of every electric bill is - you guessed it - a tax.
So what they're talking about is a special, higher tax for those of us on the Net. Every little bit of the net has been taxed right from the start; they just want networks taxed even higher than any other sort of comm or power equipment.
Those who do study history are doomed to stand helplessly by while everyone else repeats it.
They meant to enact a new property tax, i.e., a tax on land, but somebody dropped the 'd'.
Of course, another sense of property taxation would be pretty hard on enterprise Java developers.
When all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a skull.
you can pass the crack pipe back to SCO now.
This reminds me of the bizarre logic that was used by advocates of the 'Intangibles' tax we collect here in KS. They said that if you invested your money in farm land
you'd pay property taxes on it, but if you just put it in the bank and 'clipped coupons' you don't pay them, so it's only fair to tax intangibles too.This reasoning completely ignores the fact that the capital that your investment goes to is already subject to property tax, and taxing intanbibles qua intangibles is double taxation, just as taxing computer networks is as well.
Before anyone clicks on the Reply to This link to pipe up that it's double taxation on the telcos too... yes, it is. It's an extra tax they pay in exchange for having a government-mandated monopoly. They pass that tax along to their captive customer base, which is oblivious to the fact that businesses don't pay taxes, they collect them.
[100% ISO 646 Compliant]
SVM, ERGO MONSTRO.
Because senior citizens rarely use LANs, so the AARP and won't bitch about it much. ;)
Don't you know ANYTHING about how Florida works?
Never look down your nose at others. Someday, someone is bound to see your boogers.
Huge tax cuts without requirements on how it should be spent = lost tax revenues that might not be spent at all or spent in ways that improve the economy. This is kinda like giving a total stranger $100K and expecting him to spend it in ways that help you while not giving him any expectations on how to spend it
Good point. The only solution is a 100 per cent flat tax rate. Clearly, the only organization that can spend money wisely is the government.
While we're at it, if we can't trust the people to spend money wisely, why can we trust them to pick the government? We should also close the "voting loophole".
Toronto-area transit rider? Rate your ride.
Come and listen to a story about a guv named Jeb
A rich southernor, barely got his bro Prez,
Then one day he was lookin' for more dough,
And got the idea he could tax the LANs too.
Data that is, ethernet, Texas bits.
Well the first thing you know ol' Jeb's still a millionaire,
Kinfolk said Jeb give some cash from there
Said Floridee is the place for dough and fun
So they loaded up the vaults and moved to Washington.
DC, that is.
Greedy pols, movie stars.
Don't be so quick to dismiss all regulations as unnecessary interference. Some are nothing but lobbyists freezing out the competition, but others addressed real problems.
The bottom line is if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck and is being baked with an orange glaze and served to hungry diners, it's a duck. Paypal is a bank and the sooner it is treated as one the better off everyone will be -- too many people have been burned by arbitrary and opaque dispute resolution policies. VoIP that replaces conventional phone service *is* phone service and the users need to have the same protections (e.g., against unauthorized wiretaps, arbitrary charge dispute resolutions, etc.) as regular phone service users, etc.
For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong. -- H L Mencken
1. This has been happening for YEARS in every other segment of the economy? Why should IT jobs be the one to not go next? Once saw a sign at a buffet 'do not let your eyes be bigger than your stomach' California did JUST that.
2. Thank you for saying the goverment can spend *MY* money better than me. Its *MY* money that goes for those taxes. It never was the goverments in the first place. *I* am the one that earned it NOT them. I know dozens of people that used that money for exactly what it was put forth for, their children. They bought them new computers, cloths, and other things. All because they got 600 bucks they spent 1500 bucks. Oh yes that SLOWED the economy way down didnt it. Belive it or not the stock market is not the only indicator of what its like. 98-99 were a economic anomoly. The market is snapping back to where it should be. It is almost there if not already. Before the '.com bubble' unenployment was at 5-6%, and that was under your beloved clinton. He set in motion some of the largest company catastrophies EVER. By letting the SEC just ignor out and out fraud.
3. We set into motion that fiasco. We should end it. Show some responsiblity. All because we wanted some missle bases in Iran. When Iran went, Iraq helped us out. When we should have told them to get bent.
4. Do you know ANYTHING about economics? Did you know that money is actually keeping our economy afloat? Its called macro economics buddy. It helps smooth out the rough spots in the economy. When times are good we pay down. When times are bad we borrow money. If they had not borrowed that money what do you think this recession would have been really like? It would have been huge. There is only one way to get a balanced budget. That is to write your senator and tell him so. Everyone do it right now, it is a good thing to have.
Note: 500-1000 dollars for a 4 person family is HUGE. It means the dfference between buying new cloths or just using the wornout ones from last year.
Massive cuts are the ONLY way to balance the budget. The goverment grows at 4% instead of 8% and they call it a budget cut. That is double talk. Do not let them fool you into thinking they are the only ones that can help you. When was the last time you REALLY got help from the goverment? Those 'social' programs are a sham. They are so full of bored people that could care less, and full of such accounting fraud it would make enron look like econ 101. I see a VERY different goverment than you. They need less money. But he with the printers can make more...
See the real problem? You want to give them more money. If they do not get it they will make it up. They will do it the whole time saying its 'for the children'. Meanwhile they are PISSING money away.
'Oh, so they have the internet on computers now do they?'
I think that quote about sums up this plan.
Time for some tasty Shiner Bock!
Here's why you'll start seeing more crazy-sounding initiatives like this "lan tax":
Didn't Vice President Gore support a telecommunications tax? And didn't several states want to tax internet commerce during the dot-com boom of the late 1990s?
This is kinda like giving a total stranger $100K and expecting him to spend it in ways that help you while not giving him any expectations on how to spend it
So taking less money from taxpayers is the same as giving it to strangers? Funny -- I thought paying taxes was more like giving money to strangers.
many of our brave soldiers sacrificing their lives in Iraq will receive PAY CUTS of around $200/month.
After the Wall Street Journal cited a story about the $200 pay cut, printed this clarification:
Many readers also pointed out that in addition to the $6,000 death benefit for families of servicemen killed in action, the Department of Veterans Affairs also offers low-cost Servicemembers' Group Life Insurance, which pays even if a soldier or veteran dies while not on duty.
Note the "tax free status," which is like giving money to a rich stranger.
Don't be surprised if you find import
Now it's IT Company story time! Everyone gather 'round! Ready? Once upon a time, a huge IT company by the name of IBM opened an office in Boca Raton, Florida. The ever-money hungry Floridian politicians, sensing a windfall, quickly went to work to enact legislation allowing the state of Florida to tax IBM's entire profits because they had a presense in Florida. IBM said "Screw you guys, we're going North!" The legislation was quickly dropped after that, but IBM held a grudge after that and eventually closed the IBM Boca plant (Which was by far the most beautiful one I've worked at to date) in the mid 90's, costing thousands of jobs in the Boca Raton area. The moral of this story is that you can try to fix something after you've broken it, but it probably won't do much good in the long run.
Oh yeah and a while back they also played the most self-rightious and annoying commercial about how if you went out of state and bought something, you owed Florida sales tax on it. So I'd like to send mad propz out to the penis of the country.
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
Annual lease payments? Huh? On a LAN? Not on a computer, where I can see an annual lease payment, but on a LAN?
They appear to not know what they're talking about... "OK everyone, the tax assessor's coming. Unplug your computers, and we'll power down and disconnect the routers." You may think that's silly, but if you do that, there is no LAN. If you want to tax something, tax the hardware or the software...O, wait, they already do.
But what is this "LAN" that you're leasing?
I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
I'm kind of surprised that the Texas constitution doesn't proscribe foreigners like Bush from being governor.
what's the annual depreciation on two cans with a string tied between? Wouldn't we have a lot better laws if there was some "enforcibility" criteria they had to meet before they were passed?
"Freedom means freedom for everybody" -- Dick Cheney
Hey, maybe it's just me, but it doesn't seem like a country concerned about abridging freedom of speech should be imposing taxes on communication mechanisms. I mean, if the government were providing a service for the tax like delivering a letter for postage or improving the state's public network infrastructure, then maybe I could see it. But, I find it unAmerican (in the old sense, not the new one) to force an individual to pay a fee to an essentially irrelevant (as in unrelated to the communication at hand) governing body in order to send a message. I mean it's called freedom of speech right?
To put it in perspective, we might note that there is a long history of this sort of tax on personal things that don't affect others. The general term is "luxury tax".
...
Some of these taxes have been rather extreme. In several histories, I've read the claim that the biggest documented improvement in human health was in the UK early in the 1800's, when Parliament repealed the luxury tax on soap. Just think about that one for a moment
"Those people are all so smelly; I don't know how they stand it."
A special tax just for the privelege of having your two computers talk to each other is small stuff in comparison.
Those who do study history are doomed to stand helplessly by while everyone else repeats it.
To the extent that every single physical and energetic part of a network is taxed from the start, from the wire to the hubs and routers and even to the energy that powers it up and modulates across the wires and chips, you have to realize that what they are proposing now is a tax on the flow of information.
...damned firewall. What is wrong with this VPN? Tunnel interfaces are all screwed up. I'm too tired to figure this out. 14 fscking hours and no VPN and no time to think. I don't know what to do. Someone, tell me what to do.
What else are they talking about? Clearly they are not talking about taxing the flow of electric current, otherwise they would tax your extension cord by length for every year you have it hanging in the garage. But you take that same copper wire in a different form factor and with a certain number of twists per foot, those same electrons modulated in a particular way, and now you have something new you can tax. That is a very interesting transition.
There is a peculiar kind of mind at work here. It's almost exactly the same mind working in the shadowy deeps at SCO, and in Redmond, and in government agencies across the country. It is a business mind only superficially. More specifically, it is the mind bent on control.
I am not a revolutionary. I probably should be and when I was younger I might have been but these days I don't have time for it. But I can sense when someone is making a move on me and the things I hold to be important, and this is one of those times. The hair on the back of my neck starts to rise and I stop configuring the firewall and I sit back and I think.
We are in for a rough ride, I'm afraid. The authorities have arrived. Between the RIAA and the FBI and the bean counters and Microsoft it is getting uncomfortable to be where we are, doing what we are doing, in the way we are doing it and have done it for decades. We are not domesticated enough, not cowed. They cannot control this, any of it, and it worries them endlessly. There is no business model for cattle that won't stay in their pen. But there are plenty of professionals who can round up your cattle for you, for a fee. And then to the factory.
Do the cows in the feedlot know where they are headed? They have had an easy life, haven't they. Grown fat and complacent. Did the jump-over-the-fence thing once, got hit with a prod, gave it up after that. The grass wasn't really all that much better on the other side anyway. Do the cattle ever stop to wonder about that day? And about the fence? About why it was so important to stay behind the fence?
Here we are grazing the tall green grass, belly deep and well pleased, and the herders have noticed we're out. Feel the first shock of the prod...hear the order to move out...what are you going to do...
=^..^= all your rodent are belong to us
tax on "thingy":
... thingy.
Politician: Gentlemen, our MP saw the PM this AM and the PM wants more LSD from the PIB by tomorrow AM or PM at the latest. I told the PM's PPS that AM was NBG so tomorrow PM it is for the PM it is zero. Give us a fag or I'll go spare. Now- the fiscal deficit with regard to the monetary balance, the current financial year excluding invisible exports, but adjusted of course for seasonal variations and the incremental statistics of the fiscal and revenue arrangements for the forthcoming annual budgetary period terminating in April.
First Official: I think he's talking about taxation.
Politician: Bravo, Madge. Well done. Taxation is indeed the very hub of my gist. Gentlemen, we have to find something new to tax.
Second Official: I understood that.
Third Official: If I might put my head on the chopping block so you can kick it around a bit, sir...
Politician: Yes?
Third Official: Well most things we do for pleasure nowadays are taxed, except one.
Politician: What do you mean?
Third Official: Well, er, smoking's been taxed, drinking's been taxed but not
Politician: Good Lord, you're not suggesting we should tax... thingy?
First Official: Poo poo's?
Third Official: No.
First Official: Thank God for that. Excuse me for a moment. (leaves)
Third Official: No, no, no - thingy.
Second Official: Number ones?
Third Official: No, thingy.
Politician: Thingy!
Second Official: Ah, thingy. Well it'll certainly make chartered accountancy a much more interesting job.
There is much cruelty in the universe, John.
Yeah, we seem to have the tour map.
Personally, I think taxation should be directly related to the public cost for the item or activity. For instance, having a home means that you make police, fire, schools, prisons, water service, etc. necessary. So tax a home based upon the costs incurred to support these things. Tax a vehicle based on the costs needed to maintain the roads -- i.e., wear and tear on the roads. Tax pollution and garbage.
The things that seem the most unjust are the taxes which are completely disconnected from the use of the tax money. A tax on LANs is ridiculous because there is no reason to think that it costs the state any money for you to have one -- the public incurs no costs to support your LAN. In addition, LANs are things that are needed by people and businesses. So, like windows and hearths, it seems even worse that the state is collecting taxes on them because they know people cannot live without them. It makes you feel very powerless at the hands of the state.
This is a tax on the depriceated value of the network. If you are not a buisness no tax because you can't clame deprieciated losses. This is to fix a company that writes off $1,000,000 in network equitment depriciation every year and therefore doesn't pay taxes.
This BTW is the is one of the reasons M$ didn't pay ANY fedral taxes last year
Strive to make your client happy, not necessarly give them what they ask for
Not really. It's more the alcoholic beverages industry as well as pharma and medical that want marijuana outlawed because it could potentially really cut into their profits. I myself have no desire to drink when I've smoked pot. In addition to that long time consumption of pot does not have by a long shot the same kind of serious health risks that alcohol consumption has. And what's even better... smoking pot gives me ideas... something the government and the moralists absolutely hate. The only thing I can think of in reply to your post is maybe they don't want healthy blacks with fresh new ideas.
I'm not constitutional scholar, but with my vast experience (5 minutes with Google's help) it looks like you just have to be 30 and have lived there for 5 years
But Herr Heisenberg, how does the electron know when I'm looking?