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Dotcom Era Fads

prostoalex writes "Nostalgic USA Today looks at the fads of the dotcom boom era. The Dancing Baby, HamsterDance, I Kiss you dot org and the phrase 'All your base are belong to us' made the list."

57 of 274 comments (clear)

  1. I Think They Forgot One Thing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Jobs.

    Some days they seem like a thing of the past that might never come back.

    1. Re:I Think They Forgot One Thing by dipipanone · · Score: 4, Funny

      Jobs.

      I think that's because Steve is still about and Apple are going from strength to strength.

    2. Re:I Think They Forgot One Thing by RobotWisdom · · Score: 5, Interesting
      I tried to put these in cosmic perspective in my logarithmic timeline:

      1991: gopher

      1992: Linux, Krol's "Whole Internet Guide"

      1993: Apple Newton, Mosaic, Andrea Chen, Doom

      1994: Bill Bixby haiku

      1995: Yahoo, Greencard spam, Netscape IPO, DejaNews, eBay, Altavista

      1996: JenniCam, Palm Pilot, WebTV

      1997: dancing baby, Slashdot, 1st weblog

      1998: Drudge Report, Google, HampsterDance, iMac, DMCA, PayPal

      1999: TiVo, Everquest, Napster, Epinions, Y2K

      2000: AOL-TW, bubble pops, ArsDigita University, All Your Base

      [Lots more]

    3. Re:I Think They Forgot One Thing by Nachtfalke · · Score: 4, Funny

      And for bonus points, make it into an extra verse of "We didn't start the fire" :-)

    4. Re:I Think They Forgot One Thing by FuzzyBad-Mofo · · Score: 3, Funny

      Don't forget the sweating, dancing, and screaming Ballmer videos! I've been trying to, but the images are burned into my brain..

    5. Re:I Think They Forgot One Thing by dipipanone · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Sigh.. It was supposed to be a joke, not a piece of evangelism, but there's always one, isn't there?

      No, Apple just has a hell of a lot of really smart people in marketing

      Can you say Powerbook? Can you say OSX? Can you say G5?

      They do have a lot of smart people in marketing, but their products currently kick Wintel's ass all over the place as well.

      And I use both on a daily basis, so I *am* in a position to know. Are you?

  2. What about Goatse? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

    Seriously... probly the most seen thing on the internet during the dot come boom...

  3. It's you! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    They set us up the boom...

  4. Ah but... by GregoryD · · Score: 3, Insightful
    It still surges because of people new to the internet. Everytime a new batch learns the forward button in there email program we get another round of things we seen before.

    How many more times am I going to have to forward this darn "5 cents donation for every forward for the liver transplant" email and end this flower to people you love!!! email. I think I am destined to see the Hampster Dance at least once a year for the rest of my life as every female in the world forwards it to me.

    1. Re:Ah but... by JanMark · · Score: 3, Funny

      I think I am destined to see the Hampster Dance at least once a year for the rest of my life as every female in the world forwards it to me.
      You lucky b***rd, all I get form those females is viagra ads and those enlarge your p***s in five simple steps. Which reminds me, is there anyone in the /. croud that knows if these two go together wel? (It's for a friend.)

      --
      -- (:> jms cs.vu.nl (_) --"---
  5. all you bases are belong to us by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

    in soviet russia, belong to all bases are you.

  6. Nerdy colors by G3ckoG33k · · Score: 2, Funny

    Grey and orange!

    "All" trendy companies of 1999 had sleek logos in grey and orange (oh, yes, I used to work for one of those...).

  7. You kicked my dog... by B747SP · · Score: 2, Funny
    Does the prank call from the Paki guy accusing some chick of kicking his dog fall into this category? It certainly did at the place where I worked at the time - we roamed the halls shouting "You kicked my dog" and "I am going to sue you". To this day, my friends and I shout "YOU TRY TO CONFUSE" at each other. "Just because I'm Paki does not mean I stink".

    --
    I find your ideas intriguing and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.
    1. Re:You kicked my dog... by B747SP · · Score: 5, Interesting
      No idea if you know this or not, but FYI "Paki" is taken to be a very offensive word by ethnic minorities over here (England)

      Nah mate, I'm Australian. There's not much we'll take offense at over here :-) You can even look us in the eye and tell us our beer stinks, and we'll just laugh at you. Tell us our politicians are dickheads, and we'll probably even buy you one of those beers! :-)

      If, for some reason, you're offended by my looking you in the eye and calling you a 'Paki', then it is your solemn duty to look me in the eye and call me a 'stinking kangaroo f*cker'. In turn, it is my duty to look offended for a couple of seconds, then burst out laughing, and proceed to buy you one of those aforementioned beers.

      Closer to home, the term "Paki" here in Australia really doesn't carry any further than a description of one particular group of folks we play 'World Cup' cricket against. (The fact that I refer to 'world cup' and another country in the same sentence should alone prove to you that I'm not an American! Americans don't invite other countries when they hold 'International' sporting competitions!!!).

      In any case, in this context, I'm just quoting the sound bite - no offense intended.

      --
      I find your ideas intriguing and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.
    2. Re:You kicked my dog... by hype7 · · Score: 3, Informative
      Does the prank call from the Paki guy accusing some chick of kicking his dog fall into this category? It certainly did at the place where I worked at the time - we roamed the halls shouting "You kicked my dog" and "I am going to sue you". To this day, my friends and I shout "YOU TRY TO CONFUSE" at each other. "Just because I'm Paki does not mean I stink".


      I don't remember that one, so I looked it up

      http://www.funnyjunk.com/pages/mydog.htm

      It's a shockwave file, and it's not bad. Not bad at all :)

      -- james
    3. Re:You kicked my dog... by sevensharpnine · · Score: 4, Informative

      Since nobody here seems to know the original source, I'd better chime in. The prank is from a Jerky Boys CD. Despite their stupid movie, those guys produced two (maybe more) hilarious CD's full of these types of calls. Even though the "why you kick my dog!" routine is funny, it isn't their best material. If you like the skit, I suggest you look into the full CD's. (I have no financial interest here; I'm simply a fan.)

      --
      "God is a comedian playing to an audience too afraid to laugh." -Voltaire
  8. dot com era continued... by hangingonwords · · Score: 2, Funny

    you forgot slashdot you insensitive clod!

    --
    fact: microsoft > linux
  9. All Your Base is post-Dot Com by Plug · · Score: 5, Interesting

    All Your Base is most definitely post dot.com.

    It was early 2001 (sheesh, that long ago?) and it was picked up by the Google Zeitgeist at the time.

    Kibology is probably pre-Dot Com as well. Maybe they meant to talk about lavish parties and venture capital being burnt?

    At least we never really had a Dotcom era to speak of in New Zealand...

  10. Dont Forget by p-n-wise · · Score: 2, Offtopic

    Goatse, conese and Bathtubgirl. Persuading people to visit random websites has got to have been a dot com pastime. Just look ot the number of people this search brings up.

    --
    I am the NUL and the DEL, the beginning and the end.
  11. Re:I can't believe... by dipipanone · · Score: 2, Informative

    Also, kibo is about *usenet* -- and predated the dot.com thing by many years. The dot.com boom was all about the web.

    But when did you ever see this sort of article about the interweb get anything right?

  12. The thing about the dot-com boom... by heironymouscoward · · Score: 3, Interesting

    We forgot about nostalgia for a little while...

    Truly a once-in-a-lifetime experience, to live through a boom/bust cycle like that. Kindof a Millenium Burnout Party, I guess.

    And that's one fad they forgot: the Millenium.

    --
    Ceci n'est pas une signature
  13. All Your Base Are Belong to Us by atari2600 · · Score: 2, Funny

    The theme still lives on popping up on gaming message boards from time to time and providing a good laugh. Also the porn dot cum still lives on. Nostalgic? Yes. Slow Sunday? Yes. Sleepy? Yes. Loser? Yeeeeeeeee (damn 'S' key died on me)

  14. Another net fad that should die by pyrrhonist · · Score: 5, Funny

    All those graphics that say, "Powered by SomeFrigginTechnology(tm)". Sheesh, that is so 1997.

    --
    Show me on the doll where his noodly appendage touched you.
  15. Re:All your base? by Darth+Gambit · · Score: 2, Funny

    And all your base is older than the dot come fad :/

  16. This is all well and good... by GrodinTierce · · Score: 3, Funny

    ...but think of all the things that didn't disappear, and should have.

    Tierce

    --


    Tierce
    Who sponsors your feelings?
  17. What about material things? by idiotnot · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Aeron Chairs. 'Nuff said.

  18. no need to read : by snillfisk · · Score: 2, Funny

    for the first time, i actually think that the slashdot submission said everything that was worth saying; there is no need to read the article if you read the submission text :>

    so; RTFST!"

    --
    mats
    One man's ceiling is another man's floor.
  19. History of 'All Your Base by viol8r_dk · · Score: 5, Informative

    Toaplan creates the Zero Wing video game.

    Toaplan releases a port for the Sega Genesis console with the addition of an intro scene, which is then translated into english (very poorly) and released in the United States.

    Toaplan goes out of business.

    Someone from a Zany Video Game Quotes website notices the poor translation, and highlights the game.

    Overclocked.org does a humorous voiceover of the Zero Wing intro in a fake Wayne Newton voice.

    Dozens of game-related messageboards begin to post quotes from the parody, and images altered to show the phrase.

    Most of the threads lose interest and die off quickly as the trend is pronounced dead countless times.

    The Flash movie/video is released with images from the threads and music taken from the origional game someone had added the phrase "all your base" to.

    AYB explosively expands to the general (non game messageboard-reading) public.

    The origional site for the video is shut down within hours due to excessive traffic, and moves to PlanetStarsiege.

    Lycos ponders how "All your Base" was transformed from obscurity to a top 50 search practically overnight.

    Mainstream media begin to notice the trend, and stories appear in Time Magazine, USA Today, Fox News, The Los Angeles Times, Tech TV, Wired, and many others.

    As the 'remix' used in the video goes from 58 hits a day to several thousand per day, mp3.com notices the track has been ripped directly from the video game and pulls the music off their site due to copyright violations. It is later returned unchanged.

    The trend continues to grow as it expands into nearly every corner of the web.

    Large websites like Angelfire and Hewlett Packard sneak "all your base" references into their designs.

    "All Your Base" is pronounced dead several times every day, yet it's 15 minutes of fame continue for some reason...

    1. Re:History of 'All Your Base by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "All Your Base" is pronounced dead several times every day, yet it's 15 minutes of fame continue for some reason.

      Now, things can be famous for being famous. Once things were famous for being great. Then they could be famous for being popular. Now, having been famous is enough.

  20. AYB didnt fade by Jailbrekr · · Score: 2, Informative

    All Your Base Are Belong to Us. This is an example of a saying or idea that rockets across the Net and becomes as familiar as an actual person. (The term spam, when used in reference to junk e-mail, is the most famous and successful of these.) The phrase, derived from a bad Japanese-to-English translation in the game Zero Wing, started showing up in the far corners of the Net in 2000 and shot to Web superstardom the following spring. People picked up the phrase and created a panoply of Web sites using it; they built Internet billboards, they morphed photos, they even put together music videos. But like other flashes in the pan, it retreated as quickly as it had appeared. You only wish it retreated as quickly as it had appeared. We were stuck with the links being emailed to us, or posted on our messagesboards, for months, if not years. Hell, people are STILL sending it to me.

    --
    Feed the need: Digitaladdiction.net
  21. Dot com? by rde · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I suppose that the reason they called it a 'dot com' phenomenon is that it was around then that the internet reached critical mass among users; there were enough to make business viable, and - like spam - inane memes had no problem finding an audience.

    Of course, the internet is perfect for memes like 'all your base' to flourish; it takes no effort to forward an url to everyone you know; I'm sure I'm not the only one who knows at least one individual who regularly sent messages where the To: field was longer than the rest of the message combined. A swift (and usually repeated) larting usually took care of these eventually, but in a lot of cases that just meant that their list was transferred to Bcc: instead.

    Two things that I noticed around that time that didn't make the list: The warning about GoodTimes, and the now-legendary one-line email that you had to scroll through eight metres of crap and and a myriad '>>>>>' of variable length in order to read 'Check it out!!!!!!!!!' followed by an asinine url that leaves you wondering why the fuck anyone'd want to send it in the first place, let alone forward it to the universe.

    Of course, /. is no place to talk about the motes in the eyes of others; just consider the linux clusters of natalieportman.cx .

    What the hell is a 'grit' anyway?

    1. Re:Dot com? by vadim_t · · Score: 2, Informative

      Luser Attitude Re-adjustment Tool

      (LART) Something large, heavy and painful, used to
      respond appropriately to particularly annoying lusers.

      The alt.sysadmin.recovery FAQ recommends the following
      LARTs. A 2x4 works fine, but a real professional needs
      something a little more effective. Unfortunately, this is a
      very personal thing, and no consensus has yet been reached on
      the group. Everything from a simple, 7.65mm Walther (for the
      Bond fans only, it's not a very good gun) to a 155mm with
      depleted Uranium rounds has been suggested, some even going
      for exotic things like Thermite, nukes or flamethrowers. For
      further info, look at the rec.guns home page.

      alt.sysadmin.recovery FAQ
      (http://www.ctrl-c.liu.se/~ingvar/asr/overview.htm l

    2. Re:Dot com? by Galvatron · · Score: 2, Informative
      What the hell is a 'grit' anyway?

      It's a kind of coarse cornmeal, and is prepared similarly to oatmeal ("instant grits" exist, as well as the old fashioned kind). The cooked grits can then be used in a variety of different recipes. Grits are generally eaten in the southern regions of the USA, though of course the Native Americans originated the concept (since corn, after all, came from the Americas, not Europe).

      Grits were also featured in My Cousin Vinny. What they have to do with Natalie Portman, I couldn't say.

      --
      "The question of whether a computer can think is no more interesting than that of whether a submarine can swim" -EWD
  22. Mirsky's Worst of the Web... by tgd · · Score: 2, Informative

    I would've put this on the list -- not because it faded as a result of the dot com bust, but its fading was indicitive of the craziness of the dot-com boom in general.

    Sadly, most people have never heard of it now...

  23. What about l3375p34| and ....? by SoVi3t · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Hell, l3375p34| was a fad (well, I *wish* it was a fad...won't go the fuck away). Not sure if it would qualify as a dotcom fad. How about things like The Terrible Secret of Space? And yes, we will always get people who are new to the net (or for the most part, female), that will send us links of pictures, articles, or flash movies, that we've seen countless times. I swear, I'll have kids in 20 years, and they'll come up to me and tell me to come see the funny AYB cartoon on the computer...........

    --
    Defender of Microsoft and Communism!!!
  24. All your base are not a flash in the pan! by Limburgher · · Score: 4, Funny
    Still with us it has no time!

    Use in every post, for great justice!

    What I say!?!?

    Someone set us up the long-running gag!

    All our taste are belong to bad.

    --

    You are not the customer.

  25. Slashdotisms by Trurl's+Machine · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I wonder if anyone traced back the sources of the most popular slashdotisms, like the "Dear Apple" or "I am sitting here with my freelance gig" trollings or the "In Soviet Russia" jokes? Anyone knows when the first "First post!" post was posted?

    --
    In Soviet Russia... jokes trace back you.

    1. Re:Slashdotisms by danila · · Score: 2, Informative

      In Soviet Russia - explanation on Everything2.

      --
      Future Wiki -- If you don't think about the future, you cannot have one.
    2. Re:Slashdotisms by May+Kasahara · · Score: 5, Informative

      Wikipeda has a great collection of "Slashdotisms", which they categorize under "Slashdot Trolling Phenomena". They're all here (or if not all, then most): Natalie Portman, In Soviet Russia, Beowulf Clusters, etc. The Slashdot Effect has its own entry, too.

  26. Re:All your base? by The+Revolutionary · · Score: 2, Insightful

    But I'm certainly not above laughing at clever derivatives. Are you?

    I laughed at a highly-moderated comment posted just several weeks ago, recounting "All your base" with IBM and SCO taking parts.

    Sometimes there is nothing funnier than at a particularly unexpected moment someone making a silly reference -- perhaps as a derivative -- to something like "All your base".

    "It's a trap!", something I've seen seen in some fairly weird places, which also seems to be really quite silly, is also humorous at some unexpected moment.

    Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition, right?

    Lighten up a little, eh?

  27. In The Beginning...... by TTL0 · · Score: 2, Informative

    There was the Exploding Whale

    --
    Sanity is the trademark of a weak mind. -- Mark Harrold
  28. Internet fads by hackrobat · · Score: 2, Interesting
    That list is way too incomplete.

    I've been a hardcore netizen since 1998, when I used to dial up from my uncle's home to a text-only shell account with a 1,500 bps modem :-) I remember waiting minutes to download a single JPEG file, then transferring it to my local machine using Kermit, and opening it up in Internet Explorer 3.0 on Windows 95, only to realise that it's the wrong one! Those were the days when I learnt to use Pine and Lynx, my favourite mail/www combo.

    Those were the days of Internet success stories: ICQ, Napster, Winamp. Remember ShellSock?

    In a perfect geek encounter, I met bluesmoon on comp.lang.java. Google didn't even exist back then.

    Now, when I look around, I see "techies" with 5-10 years of experience in the software industry and no clue what All Your Base... means :-) Clearly, these guys have been here for the money. I, however, am here because I love it. The Internet is changing lives, and I want to be responsible for some of it. Somebody give me that perfect job! :-D

    1. Re:Internet fads by pyrrhonist · · Score: 2, Insightful
      I've been a hardcore netizen since 1998... Google didn't even exist back then.

      Um, dood, I hate to tell you this, but there's a majority of people here that were netizens when Yahoo didn't even exist, so your bragging is quite a bit less than impressive. Now give me back my Geritol...

      --
      Show me on the doll where his noodly appendage touched you.
  29. Another they forgot... by Nimrod · · Score: 2, Interesting

    What about the Big Red Button that doesn't do anything?

    Truly a timeless classic.

  30. meme by lone_marauder · · Score: 2, Informative

    various cybercultural oddities (a.k.a. memes) over the years have made a fleeting impact on Net culture

    I didn't think a meme was a cybercultural oddity. I thought it was a (usually false) idea whose character was to spread through human consciousness in a viral manner (e.g. - all small bandages are Band Aids (tm), the SR-71's fuel is the consistency of peanut butter, etc.).

    This brings up a question. Has the idea of a meme become a meme?

    --
    who are those slashdot people? they swept over like Mongol-Tartars.
    1. Re:meme by Aidos · · Score: 2, Insightful

      memes are not false ideas. they are the units of cultural inheritence. AYB is as valid a meme as Christianity. The difference is that the AYB meme doesn't organive and influence large groups of people as well. So yes of course the idea of meme is a meme. that is the point

  31. All your base going strong by grasshoppah · · Score: 2, Insightful

    "But like other flashes in the pan, it retreated as quickly as it had appeared."

    ohhhh don't i wish! When i don't here this phrase 10 times a day I'll finally be able to take the plugs out of my ears

  32. I beg your pardon by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    They set us up the boom

    In Zero Wing, the preposition comes before the direct object.

    They set up us the boom is more correct.

    Sheesh, me to need publish grammar?

  33. Many by AnonymousCowheart · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Many of these great things can be found at:
    ebaumsworld and maybe many new fads?:)

  34. Changes to the Workplace from the Dot Com days by COredneck · · Score: 5, Interesting

    The Dot Com days made many changes to the work place which are both positive and negative.

    Many of the positives which have been fading, taken away or restricted

    Very relaxed dress code (shorts, jeans, sandals, hiking boots/sneakers)

    Telecommuting

    Flex Time ( work longer on Mon/Tue, take Fri off)

    In-house gourmet lunches

    Game room and outdoor games

    Few of the negatives which are now flourishing

    Oursourcing to India

    H1-B Visas

    Corporate executives throwing their weight around by reducing pay, taking away benefits such as flex time, telecommuting, vacations

    One company that epitomizes the positives is Google's Culture. They are one of the few Dot Com type companies still around.

    On the dress code, many companies have brought back dress codes especially the legal and finance industry. Where I work at, we are subcontrctors to Boeing on a government contract. Their top manager has a strict dress policy of having to wear a tie, slacks and dress shoes. This means no jeans along with hiking boots/sneakers/tennis shoes. This dress code even applies on trips on weekends and if you come in on a Saturday. Their work hours are strict 8 to 5. Those rules don't apply to us, YET ! There are rumblings in the Boeing group to force us to comply with those rules since they hold the purse strings. I take Thursday and Friday afternoons off just about every week but Monday and Tuesday are long days though. I also wear jeans everyday as well. We are in one of the top outdoor recreational states of Colorado.

    Part of the rumblings in Boeing to force us to comply with their rules caused a few problems for me. Back in June/July, I took 4 weeks vacation to do some traveling, go see family and one of the Managers in Boeing told me to cancel my vacation since my focus should be on working instead of taking time off that I have earned and I told him I did not answer to him and he got irate. He told me I will pay for my attitude. The same person got pissed when I happen to be around on Friday all day that they cannot get any work done because of our flex time policy. One of their computers at 4pm went down and the person who can call in left at 11 am. He was demanded that the computer get fixed this instant. He made the comment that we are lazy since we take Friday afternoon off. He fired off some complaints to their top executives.

    At Oracle which is in Colorado Springs, they started to restrict people from telecommuting who live within 50 miles of the company building. Last I heard, there is talk to take it away. Those who live in different Mountain towns may have to move if they want to keep their job.

    1. Re:Changes to the Workplace from the Dot Com days by aschlemm · · Score: 3, Informative

      I guess I've been around too long in software development circles and don't see what the problem is. I've worked for a number of companies and we were always expected to work 5 days a week. Generally most of the companies I worked for had what we called "core hours" which were between the hours of 10AM and 4PM. These were the hours we're expected to be around for meetings etc. This also gives people the flexibility to come in from anywhere from 7:00AM to 10:00AM so long as we're around during core hours. I've never worked anyplace where people would take afternoons off during the work week.

      I have worked for a few companies there had a schedule where people could work nine 9 hour days in a row which then allowed a person to every other Friday off. I've always put in alot of hours in my programming jobs over the year since it goes with this sort of job. We don't do death marches but the programmers I work with know if they're behind or not and if they need to work an extra day or two on the weekend sometimes to catch up they do it. I never saw any of this "slacker" behavior where just because someone put in some extra hours on some days earlier in the work week that they're now entitled to take a few afternoons off during the week.

      I'm trying to sound like a hard ass but I was around as a programmer long before the dot.con boom and I'm still around after the bust. I've never ever had a programming job that was 9 to 5 and that just sort of goes with the job IMHO. At least now with VPN solutions available if I have to do some work on the weekend I can do it from home and not waste the time driving into the office. And with the IT downturn I'm doing alot more than just programming now. I'm also our office's part-time Oracle DBA and I'm also resposible for system admin duties for several Linux servers and a Win2K server.

      I do agree that you should be able to take the vacation time off that you've earned but I'm not real sympathetic about whether you can or can't take Thursday and Friday afternoon off. A reasonable manager may not care how many hours you work each week so long as you get all of your work done on time and done correctly. But your manager may also have a PHB putting pressure on him/her and so that pressure gets passed down to you.

  35. Somebody was paid to write this? by malus · · Score: 2, Funny

    Wow. 4 whole "Dot.com" fads. Wheeeee. Now that's what I call 'thorough'

    Here's a dot-com fad that hasn't gone away just yet: The Dumbing down of the internet.

  36. Re:Pre dot-com days. by Evan · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I remember my wife telling me about this new web browser thingy. I looked at it, and there were about 200 sites in all, so I shrugged and went back to reading netnews. She never lets me forget that :-)

  37. Mr.T by Sandman1971 · · Score: 4, Informative

    They forgot one other fad: Mr.T Ate My Balls (and original site). I have to admit, I never got that one.

    --
    It's better to burn out than to fade away
  38. Nostalgic by CGP314 · · Score: 2, Funny

    I'm not sure Nostalgic is the right word to use for something that happened less than half a decade ago.

  39. Notice today's fortune by Animats · · Score: 2, Funny
    The fortune at the bottom of this page:
    • Can anyone remember when the times were not hard, and money not scarce?
    Yes!
  40. Re:All your humor by jazman_777 · · Score: 2, Insightful
    Nobody's going to take offense.

    Not in America. We specialize in taking offense at anything here.

    --
    Slashdot: Failed Car Analogies. Amateur Lawyering. Anecdote Battles.