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Google Removes Links in Response to DMCA Complaint

Posted by CmdrTaco on from the now-thats-just-scary dept.

dioscaido writes "If you search Google for Kazaa Lite, you'll find the results a bit lacking. Ironically enough, Sharman Networks, using the DMCA, filed a legal complaint to block Kazaa Lite sites. " Google links the DMCA request at the end of the results which contain the URLs in question, but the URLs aren't really the point. It's scary that the DMCA makes URLs a copyright violation. How long before libraries can't index books? Or own them?

55 of 495 comments (clear)

  1. Ironic by heironymouscoward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    KazaaLite is a hack of Kazaa, and thus blatant piracy. But Kazaa itself is dubious stuff, filled with spyware. Sigh. Perhaps we will see a version of KazaaLite distributed through Kazaa?

    --
    Ceci n'est pas une signature
    1. Re:Ironic by SnowWolf2003 · · Score: 5, Informative

      When I installed the latest version of KazaaLite it automatically copied the installation file into my shared folder. Just search for klitekpp242e.exe on Kazaa.

    2. Re:Ironic by King_TJ · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I'm not even sure I'd classify Kaaza Lite as "clearly crooked" myself, much less "blatant piracy".

      Here's why I say that:

      Kaaza Lite was an attempt to "de-louse" all the spyware bundled up into Kaaza. If it was truly a piracy attempt (hijaacking someone else's code), they would have changed the name of the software and played things off like it was their own original work. None of this seems to be the case. In fact, every reference to Kaaza Lite I've seen makes it pretty clear that it, indeed, *is* the Kaaza software, except cleaned up so it won't fill your computer with unwanted "extras".

    3. Re:Ironic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I believe that Sharman Networks is attempting to sell a version of Kazaa called Kazaa plus, which is kazaa with new search and download features minus the banner ads and popups. Does this mean that it is spyware free? If so, then Kazaa lite is a threat to the sales of their "new and improved" software. Of course they are going to do what they can to cut off access to the hacked versions of their software.

    4. Re:Ironic by heironymouscoward · · Score: 4, Informative

      This may explain it.

      It may also explain why the latest release of KazaaLite is labelled "K++".

      As Jonathan Swift said:

      "So, naturalists observe, a flea
      Has smaller fleas that on him prey;
      And these have smaller still to bite 'em;
      And so proceed ad infinitum."

      --
      Ceci n'est pas une signature
    5. Re:Ironic by DickBreath · · Score: 4, Insightful

      KazaaLite is a hack of Kazaa, and thus blatant piracy.

      One obvious solution is to distribute a Kazaa Lite patcher that transforms a Kazaa into Kazaa Lite prior to installation. Now there is no copyright violation. Nobody is distributing even a patched version of Kazaa.

      Name this patcher program something completely different, without the word Kazaa in the name to eliminate trademark claims. Word of the patch would still spread just as it did for Kazaa Lite, and spread by the same mechanisms.

      --

      I'll see your senator, and I'll raise you two judges.
  2. Priceless. by acceleriter · · Score: 4, Interesting

    A company whose entire business model is based on facilitating copyright infringement calls "Smithers, unleash the hounds" on Google over another company it believes is infringing its copyright.

    --

    CEE5210S The signal SIGHUP was received.

    1. Re:Priceless. by aagren · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I don't get it. How would companies like Sherman Networks find sites to throw the DMCA at if it weren't for a site like google?

      If google decided not to cache any sites with the word 'kazaa' in it, I'm pretty sure that the users of it would find it anyhow, but the pointy haired suits at Sherman Networks would probably not find it as easely.

      Sounds to me like they are shooting themselves in the foot.

    2. Re:Priceless. by danila · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It's sad that Google decided not to do just that. Since they are under no obligation to index ANY sites, they could have just removed all pages that have high relevance on "kazaa" query. That would really send a message to the lawyers that you don't force search engines to filter results. Unfortunately, Google didn't do that and established an ugly precedent. It's good that they at least included the DMCA mention, but it's bad nevertheless. And it would be much better if the notice was at the top, on a bright red background, like a MEGA-SPONSORED link, so that noone could miss it. :) It would also be great if they listed in plain text the sites that they are prohibited from linking to. :) But alas, they were too frightened. :( I don't know why, because obviously, no sane judge would order Google to close, no matter what...

      --
      Future Wiki -- If you don't think about the future, you cannot have one.
    3. Re:Priceless. by s20451 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Maybe because, for Google to work properly, their behavior has to be perceived to be absolutely neutral. Sure, they could have attempted to score political points through some childish strike at all "kazaa" queries, but they would have lost a lot of respect and made their site less useful, especially to researchers.

      There are a lot of interesting links between Google and the news media. Both present a great deal of information to the public, and both have a moral obligation to present the facts without bias or favor, even when they may have personal issues with it. Once the perception of impartiality is lost, the user can no longer count on reliable searches. If Google had taken some drastic action to score political points, I would have been inclined to find an alternative search engine.

      --
      Toronto-area transit rider? Rate your ride.
    4. Re:Priceless. by cyberformer · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The precedent is that Google will take down links under threat of DMCA, not a legal one. However, that precedent was actually set a long time ago, by the "Church" of Scientology demanding that Google stop linking to Xenu.net. (There may have been evene earlier cases with Google and DCMA, but that's the big one.)

      In the CoS/Xenu case, Google didn't stop indexing Scientology altogether; they just replaced the Xenu link with one to the DMCA notice. Following their own precedent, they have to do the same with Kazaa.

    5. Re:Priceless. by danila · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It's impossible to perceive it as neutral if they remove links at the request of others. Currently Google presents biased information regarding Kazaa Lite. I don't think blocking all Kazaa links for certain period (or may be just providing an empty results page with information for users about DMCA and Sharman's threats and a link for those who still want to search for "kazaa", which would lead to all searches, except lite). I am not suggesting they score any points, political or otherwise. I am just saying that bowing to unreasonable requests (legal, but that's an abuse of a bad law) doesn't present a search engine in the best light. I don't usually give a shit about boycotts and I will use Google if I decide that I need it, but for now my default engine is Altavista (and I e-mailed Google about it).

      Altavista is now a pretty good search engine. Sponsored links may be annoying, but they are clearly marked and can be removed by a simple Proxomitron filter (remove all pairs that include "*Sponsored*"). I just may be as happy with it, as I was with Google.

      --
      Future Wiki -- If you don't think about the future, you cannot have one.
    6. Re:Priceless. by plugger · · Score: 3, Informative

      At the bottom of the Google results page is the statement saying that some results were filtered out and a link to the DMCA complaint. The complaint has all the links there in plain text. It is also hosted on chillingeffects.org, with links to explanations of the complaint's details.

      Google have done ok. They make sure that you know the search has been censored. The links that are missing are available via cut and paste. If you didn't know what the DMCA was before, Google link to a site which will tell you more than you wanted to know, and from a sceptical point of view.

  3. strange... by di0s · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I thought Sharman Networks was incorporated in Australia. How can they use a foreign law like that?

    1. Re:strange... by C10H14N2 · · Score: 5, Informative

      The Alien Tort Claims Act of 1789 allows it.

      The act gives Federal jusidiction over "any civil action by an alien for a tort only, committed in violation of the law of nations or a treaty of the United States." The ATCA can be used via proxy by non-US entities as long as they can establish some reasonable connection to a US entity, such as relatives (in the case of people) or parents/subsidiaries (in the case of companies). Since copyright is covered in numerous treaties, particularly the Berne Convention, it is open season.

  4. Sites still visible by inburito · · Score: 3, Redundant

    If you click on the bottom of the google screen to view the dmca-notice you can check out exactly which sites were blocked out. So instead of clicking you're going to have to cut-n-paste.

  5. A bit lacking by Melex · · Score: 5, Funny

    How is 372 000 results a bit lacking

  6. Of course... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    If you search Google for Kazaa Lite, you'll find the results a bit lacking.

    Incidentally, if you search Kazaa Lite for pretty much anything other than Top 40's Radio or pr0n you get similar results.

  7. Not totally lacking... by st0rmshadow · · Score: 4, Funny

    I didn't try any of the links, but it looks like there's still a few download links. Of course, you could always go to www.kazaalitekpp.com to get it, anywa...oops, sorry DMCA.

  8. Uhm? by Richard_at_work · · Score: 4, Insightful

    How long before libraries can't index books? Or own them?

    Uhm, hasnt this already happened many many times in the past?

  9. Watch this site for further info on this takedown by MsGeek · · Score: 4, Informative
    http://www.chillingeffects.org/

    It's a good source for information on exactly this subject. No, I don't run it. ;-)

    --
    Knowledge is power. Knowledge shared is power multiplied.
  10. Same old same old by achurch · · Score: 4, Informative

    This has happened before. I don't think the DMCA complaint was very effective that time, either.

  11. Ironic by silverhalide · · Score: 4, Informative

    I thought the RIAA had a part in this, noticing references to Kazaa and DMCA. I find it a little unusual that Sharman had a part in it. Oddly enough the links are still quite available, and search results now point to K++ (a better Kazaa derivative), and the original links are still available. Seems almost like a "Screw you" gesture by google to Sharman if you ask me. Just goes to show that once the cat is out of the bag on the net, its almost impossible to recover it.

  12. It's time to put the DMCA to FAIR USE by Natchswing · · Score: 4, Interesting
    I think it's time that the online community to the responsible thing and take care of the DMCA. It's time for everyone to start drafting letters.

    Create a nice recording of some chimes, name it chimes.wav. Now, write letters to ISPs around the saying that someone with chimes.wav (a standard windows installed WAV file) is violating your copyright.

    If everyone on slashdot sends a dozen bogus requests, all around the same time, and completely flood the ISPs and halt their ability to respond to these requests then I think we'd see finally see an uproar of the problems this bill causes.

    The RIAA can send out bogus claims, why can't we help them make the DMCA so obnoxious that it must be stopped?

    1. Re:It's time to put the DMCA to FAIR USE by LostCluster · · Score: 3, Informative

      Because you expose yourself to a lawsuit by whomever you complained about every time you make a bogus claim. A small handful of users won't have enough resources to sue the RIAA, but the major ISPs would certainly help their users file a class action lawsuit against you...

  13. What would possess them to do this? by ndnet · · Score: 4, Insightful

    While K++ does put a dent in their business model, why do this? It seems like a good idea, but has one fatal flaw:

    It legitimizes the suit against them.

    Think about it: in both Kazaa and Google, the method of infringement, if it exists, is the same: Allow search results that may or may not be pirated.

    By basically validating the complaint against them, they allow RIAA to argue the same point very easily, except in this case it is a blood-thirsty industry group instead of a small computer company.

    Oh, well... It doesn't matter, because the next filesharing tool will rise up fast.

  14. Google is an 'enabler' by militantbob · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Google is being pushed into all of this 'URLs are copyright violations' stuff based on the same ideas used to attack Napster and Kazaa. Essentially, Google is an 'enabler', a willing gateway to property crime. Napster and Kazaa let you search for the property itself. Google lets you search for the tools to search for the property you intend to steal.

    Attacking Google is simply the next logical step, if one has already asserted the culpability of Napster.

    However, I disagree with the idea that Sony is guilty of 'enabling' child pornography by making laptops and CD burners and camcorders. All are legitimate products turned to illegitimate uses. Just like Napster and Google.

    And just like guns, for that matter. Suing gun manufacturers whenever someone chooses to turn a tool into the apparatus of crime is the same thing. And it's equally as wrong.

    A side note about public libraries and such: I've never been able to reconcile my views on individual sovereignty and property rights in relation to public libraries and schools. Thomas Jefferson and I had the same problem.

    An individual should not be forced to pay taxes to fund a program for the benefit of others. Yet an uneducated populace is an easy target for propaganda and dictatorship.

    Of course, I won't take the time to cover the property rights of authors and publishers in regards to the free lending (which amounts legally to 'public display') of copyrighted material.

    --
    "The Tree of Liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of Patriots and Tyrants." --Thomas Jefferson
    1. Re:Google is an 'enabler' by Mac+Degger · · Score: 3, Insightful

      "An individual should not be forced to pay taxes to fund a program for the benefit of others"

      Yup, he should...that's part of the social contract you sign up to when you decide to live in a society. You can always move off and become a hermit if you don't agree. It's harsh, but it is one or the other.

      Not only that, but by paying for things like education, infrastructure and environmental programs you ensure that there is less crime, a road to travel to your work on and that you live in a place where the air is breathable...all things which directly affect you. And that is why the government is allowed to force you to pay...because otherwise you're enjoying the benfits which others are paying for.

      --
      -- Waht? Tehr's a preveiw buottn?
  15. Google's downfall by SnowWolf2003 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Is this the beginning of the end? When google stops returning the results I am looking for, it is time to start looking for a new search engine that will.

    1. Re:Google's downfall by recursiv · · Score: 4, Interesting

      No, this isn't the end of anything. They link to the DMCA complaint, which gives all the URLs! Google, defiant as always. I fucking love google.

      --
      I used to bulls-eye womp-rats in my pants
  16. But it's still appearing in the Adwords!!! by donnacha · · Score: 5, Interesting


    This is hilarious:

    Before I even had a chance to scroll down the page to look at the DMCA message, I noticed that the Adwords are full of links to Kazaa Lite!

    I guess Google's financial team is a little tougher than their search team.

  17. Google for India also carries a DMCA notice. by Futurepower(R) · · Score: 4, Interesting


    It is interesting to note that the version of Google for India also carries a DMCA notice for Kazaa Lite. Does the U.S. government make worldwide law now? The DMCA is just a local law affecting less than 5% of the people in the world.

    1. Re:Google for India also carries a DMCA notice. by donnacha · · Score: 4, Funny


      Does the U.S. government make worldwide law now?

      Where have you been for the past two years?

    2. Re:Google for India also carries a DMCA notice. by Mr.+X · · Score: 3, Informative

      DMCA was signed by President Clinton.

  18. Works for me! by LauraW · · Score: 3, Informative

    Searching for "Kazaa" gives a Kazaa Lite link in the 4th position, and "Kazaa Lite" gives lots of KL links. I don't know if this means they've changed their minds or if the original change just hasn't propagated everywhere yet.

  19. Re:And I'm just sure... by LostCluster · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Google's simply complying with the request and blocking the URLs that were validly mentioned in the takedown notice. However, Google's not going to do anything more than the law requires, so any new URLs that pop up will certainly get GoogleBot's attention and the cat and mouse game goes on...

  20. DCMA Gone too Far by Unixinvid · · Score: 3, Informative

    You know this looks like big brother authoritive business. I mean when I look at this I see the DCMA group attack sites that have little or no involment with p2p sites. I mean its like attacking puppies with a lawn mower. Our right as a citizen are being violated by big business, who are attemping to control our lives. Its like the Futurama episode where they put advertisements in your dreams. Any ways Congress real research, and better information then to listen to people like the MPAA and the RIAA.

  21. Re:DMCA ... by RonnyJ · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Unfortunately, the same message is displayed on the google.co.uk version, where the DCMA should have no effect - why can't they just have the restriction on the .com site?

  22. Meanwhile, outside Googleland... by Linker3000 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I have just tried Kazaa Lite on various other search engines and meta search engines, and without fail they return at least one of the forbidden 8 sites that Google removes:

    Altavista

    Webcrawler

    Teoma

    Dogpile

    Obviously not a comprehensive effort (I have a 3yr old son to entertain right now and that's much more important!), but it leads to the conclusion that either the complainant thinks the world revolves around Google OR the other sites haven't checked their mail yet!

    As others have pointed out, the genie is out of the bottle and so semi-hiding the links is going to be pointless. I loved the written up DMCA complaint--putting the list of banned sites on it is kind of like having an English test question that says: Write down the correct spelling of following word: 'incomprehensible'? .

    --
    AT&ROFLMAO
  23. Re:Google 0wn3d by DMCA by acceleriter · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I think Google is taking a practical approach to this. They're informing the user that the results have been censored, and then link to the letter containing the censored results. Methinks they're hoisting Sherman with their own petard--the Kazaa Lite folks couldn't have bought publicity this effective.

    --

    CEE5210S The signal SIGHUP was received.

  24. A different perspective... by Baron_Yam · · Score: 5, Funny

    Summary:Kazaa C&Ds Google, because it's easier than tracking down all the offending sites and C&Ding them individually. The justification for the C&D - Kazaa Lite is illegal, Google is providing easy access to Kazaa Lite.

    What if Google turned around and said, "Kazaa is using Google to facillitate tracking down sites infringing on its intellectual property. Please pay Google the following outrageous fee for legal research assistance."

    In my opinion, C&Ding a search engine is like trying to have a municipality remove street addresses from buildings containing businesses you don't like. It's just stupid.

  25. Re:DMCA ... by zmooc · · Score: 4, Informative

    Because the domain is owned by Google Inc, not by an English entity that could be held responsible. The same for the netblock. So it's effectively just an USAian site which happens to have a pointer to it that ends in co.uk.

    --
    0x or or snor perron?!
  26. What's funny... Read the complaint by ogre2112 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    They list all the blocked links in the complaint, which google points to as a mention of why they blocked the sites:

    a. http://www.kazaagold.com
    b. http://mp3download.com
    c. http://www.kazaalite.tk
    d. http://www.kaaza.com
    e. http://doa2.host.sk
    f. http://www.k-lite.tk
    g. http://www.kazaa-file-sharing-downloads.com
    h. http://www.kazaalite.nl
    i. http://home/hccnet.nl/h.edskes/mirror.htm
    j. http://www.kazaa-download.de
    k. http://www.zeropaid.com
    l. http//www.kazaalite.nl/downloads.htm
    m. http://kazaa.infos-du-net.com
    n. http://www.kazaa-lite.tk
    o. http://www.kazaa-lite.info

    1. Re:What's funny... Read the complaint by Mwongozi · · Score: 4, Informative
      Only some of these URLs are actually useful for finding the Kazaa Lite software. The useful ones are:
    2. Re:What's funny... Read the complaint by WWWWolf · · Score: 5, Insightful

      What is interesting is that Google lists the sites that have been removed due to DMCA, yes. I first saw this in the case when the Church of Scientology tried to use DMCA to de-list pages critical to them.

      The effect is precisely not what the people who invoked DMCA wanted to happen, though.

      Google is basically saying "Okay, we would have shown you these sites, but we were told not to". And people are far more curious about seemingly forbidden knowledge =)

      Let us rejoice that Google still can tell that the sites were censored and is not required to act ignorant ("DMCA-delisted site? Where? We have no DMCA-delisted sites here, no sir, and if we did, they would be, after all, delisted!").

    3. Re:What's funny... Read the complaint by The+Cydonian · · Score: 3, Informative
      One more reason why effective competition for Google is a good thing.

      Alltheweb doesn't quite have a Google Groups or a News Google equivalent (only news search; no headline parser), but the regular search is pretty cool.

      --
      More than mere navel gazing.
  27. In the I'll play by the rules department by 4/3PI*R^3 · · Score: 3, Informative
    Google removed the links to Kazaa related sites from their search engine but then list the DMCA request which of course has all the URLS listed.

    Score: Google 1
    Kazaa 0
    DMCA 0

  28. Blue Ribbon by danila · · Score: 4, Informative

    It seems that once again it's time to place Blue ribbons on our websites and webpages...

    --
    Future Wiki -- If you don't think about the future, you cannot have one.
  29. Re:And I'm just sure... by MunchMunch · · Score: 4, Interesting
    "Google's simply complying with the request and blocking the URLs that were validly mentioned in the takedown notice."

    The funny thing is, I noticed they demanded one additional site to be taken down, in addition to all the Kazaa Lite hosts: www.zeropaid.com.

    I'm not sure what your definition of "valid" is, but I did a quick check over at the site, which is a file sharing news site, and there was no actual Kazaa Lite software onsite. Instead, the software download link pointed to one of the sites mentioned in the DMCA takedown demand. In other words, looks like they weren't just going after the biggest sites that had the software, but a site that even only linked to the software site. In otherwords Google had to remove a link to a link. I'd say that's going a bit far beyond what even the DMCA thinks is valid.

  30. thought police by dbc001 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Apparently there are pieces of information that Americans are not allowed to write down. We are definitely edging towards thought crime here. Between this and the illegality of writing virii (i know its spelled wrong but it looks better), we are on our way! I just wonder when someone will get punished for writing these things with pen & paper instead of electronically...

  31. Re:So what do we do about it? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    "...this law is doing more damage than good."

    Well, that's more a matter of opinion than a statement of fact. As far as we're concerned, yes, it is doing a great deal of harm. It is crippling free speech, killing innovation, and financially ruining good people.

    However, to Corporate America (y'know, the guys who wanted it passed in the first place) it's everything they ever dreamed of and more. Their vision for America is different from ours. While we envision freedom, equality, and innovation, *they* envision a world where we are completely and totally controlled by them. From our entertainment to our toothbrushes, they want to control every aspect (and dollar) of our lives without haven to worry about "competition" and "consumer choice." The corporate wet dream is a supermonopoly ("Unicorp") that controls everything, can charge any price they want, and is completely free from government regulation.

    Given that it is corporations, and not citizens, who have the most pull in government, it seems unlikely that the Congressmen are going to listen to a bunch of slashdotters when their *real* constitutients are happy as larks.

    Then again, mass e-mail, snail mail, and phone campaigns worked pretty well for the homeschoolers...

  32. Re:Really? by wo1verin3 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I'm in Canada and I just got my very own DMCA notice regarding my website. I run a small video game fan site and posted some video game screenshots from GameSpot. Appearantly they didn't take too kindly... *cough*assholes*cough* :)

  33. In other news... by jmors · · Score: 3, Insightful
    From: RIAA

    To: Sharman Networks

    To whom it may concern,

    We are pleased to see others taking a stand against the providing of links to illegal versions of copyrighted works. We agree wholeheartedly with your stand that providing search results to copyrighted material is a criminal act. As someone who obviously upholds our philosophy we KNOW that you will be all too happy to remove from any search results that your software provides any links to dowloads of copyrighted works such as music, movies, other software and the like.

    Thank you so much for proving our point!

    IDIOTS!

    --
    The Matrix is real... but I'm only visiting!
  34. Re:DMCA ... by eean · · Score: 3, Interesting

    We should just start using the Spanish word "estadounidense" as an adjective for the USA. In a context-less situation like the Internet, using the word American is not very specific and somewhat offensive. And USAians looks kind of silly.

    I guess its like how people suggest we should start using "libre" for Free Software to better differentiate it from free as in gratis software. I'm all for taking liberally from other languages when English isn't specific enough and another one is.

  35. Re:Really? by Guspaz · · Score: 4, Interesting

    You're forgetting that this is Canada... The DMCA has no effect here. Assuming your hosting is in Canada, you can simply send a reply telling gamespot that you are not under the jurisdiction of the DMCA, and that you will not be complying with their request.

    If your hosting is in the US... Well, then you're in a bit more of a bind. IANAL, but I'd suspect that while YOU are not liable, the American hosting company would be, and would be forced to remove the content from their servers.

    Of course, surely you chose Canadian web hosting to keep your dollars in the country, no? :p