Slashdot Mirror
Google Removes Links in Response to DMCA Complaint
dioscaido writes "If you search Google for Kazaa Lite, you'll find the results a bit lacking. Ironically enough, Sharman Networks, using the DMCA, filed a legal complaint to block Kazaa Lite sites. " Google links the DMCA request at the end of the results which contain the URLs in question, but the URLs aren't really the point. It's scary that the DMCA makes URLs a copyright violation. How long before libraries can't index books? Or own them?
Glad i live in Europe, such nonsense seems to be going a little slower here.
Thats 'Sharman' networks :)
KazaaLite is a hack of Kazaa, and thus blatant piracy. But Kazaa itself is dubious stuff, filled with spyware. Sigh. Perhaps we will see a version of KazaaLite distributed through Kazaa?
Ceci n'est pas une signature
People are going to find the URLs whether or not they are on google. It just seems pointless to remove them in an effort to curb downloading.
About the worst this can do is drive more people back to spy/adware-laden Kazaa.
Cogito ergo sum in Slashdot.
A company whose entire business model is based on facilitating copyright infringement calls "Smithers, unleash the hounds" on Google over another company it believes is infringing its copyright.
CEE5210S The signal SIGHUP was received.
I thought Sharman Networks was incorporated in Australia. How can they use a foreign law like that?
If you click on the bottom of the google screen to view the dmca-notice you can check out exactly which sites were blocked out. So instead of clicking you're going to have to cut-n-paste.
How is 372 000 results a bit lacking
If you search Google for Kazaa Lite, you'll find the results a bit lacking.
Incidentally, if you search Kazaa Lite for pretty much anything other than Top 40's Radio or pr0n you get similar results.
I didn't try any of the links, but it looks like there's still a few download links. Of course, you could always go to www.kazaalitekpp.com to get it, anywa...oops, sorry DMCA.
How long before libraries can't index books? Or own them?
Uhm, hasnt this already happened many many times in the past?
I'm sure that this is going to stop P2P activity.... I don't think it is too hard nowadays to find Kazaa K++ just by-
Oh wait, check those searches again, I just did a search and it seems the spiders haven't gotten word yet, this just goes to show that no matter how much you wanna censor, you can't censor it all!
Business \Busi"ness\, n.;
A scam in which all people involved perceive as beneficial...
It's a good source for information on exactly this subject. No, I don't run it. ;-)
Knowledge is power. Knowledge shared is power multiplied.
This has happened before. I don't think the DMCA complaint was very effective that time, either.
Is providing a link to the DMCA complain that lists the infringing sites in violation? If not, then there is really no point to taking down any results in the first place...
I thought the RIAA had a part in this, noticing references to Kazaa and DMCA. I find it a little unusual that Sharman had a part in it. Oddly enough the links are still quite available, and search results now point to K++ (a better Kazaa derivative), and the original links are still available. Seems almost like a "Screw you" gesture by google to Sharman if you ask me. Just goes to show that once the cat is out of the bag on the net, its almost impossible to recover it.
What I'd like to know is why the UK google has removed the sites also. The Canadian google is the same.
Are these international based Google's served from the USA?
Create a nice recording of some chimes, name it chimes.wav. Now, write letters to ISPs around the saying that someone with chimes.wav (a standard windows installed WAV file) is violating your copyright.
If everyone on slashdot sends a dozen bogus requests, all around the same time, and completely flood the ISPs and halt their ability to respond to these requests then I think we'd see finally see an uproar of the problems this bill causes.
The RIAA can send out bogus claims, why can't we help them make the DMCA so obnoxious that it must be stopped?
The second "Sponsored link" is A bit of an oversight there I guess....
Boffoonery - downloadable Comedy Benefit for Bletchley Park
Yes, they have. Or at least the German Google has. However, the second result, among many others, links to a German page promoting Kazaa Lite. (Note that the first result contains a so-called "dialer" - every German Slashdotter likely has heard of them -, ie. is basically a fraud to steal your money.) The German Google also has the same link to the letter they received.
Switch back to Slashdot's D1 system.
My local one did, which is rather unsurprising really.
Aren't the servers in the US?
search "k++"
workd for me this morning
How long before libraries can't index books? Or own them?
That is quite interesting question. Let's start to think about it.. Why should libraries have the right to loan copyrighted material such as books and audio CDs to people? People are not paying royalties to anyone when they read a book or listen to CD that is loaned from library. Isn't this wrong?
While K++ does put a dent in their business model, why do this? It seems like a good idea, but has one fatal flaw:
It legitimizes the suit against them.
Think about it: in both Kazaa and Google, the method of infringement, if it exists, is the same: Allow search results that may or may not be pirated.
By basically validating the complaint against them, they allow RIAA to argue the same point very easily, except in this case it is a blood-thirsty industry group instead of a small computer company.
Oh, well... It doesn't matter, because the next filesharing tool will rise up fast.
Google is being pushed into all of this 'URLs are copyright violations' stuff based on the same ideas used to attack Napster and Kazaa. Essentially, Google is an 'enabler', a willing gateway to property crime. Napster and Kazaa let you search for the property itself. Google lets you search for the tools to search for the property you intend to steal.
Attacking Google is simply the next logical step, if one has already asserted the culpability of Napster.
However, I disagree with the idea that Sony is guilty of 'enabling' child pornography by making laptops and CD burners and camcorders. All are legitimate products turned to illegitimate uses. Just like Napster and Google.
And just like guns, for that matter. Suing gun manufacturers whenever someone chooses to turn a tool into the apparatus of crime is the same thing. And it's equally as wrong.
A side note about public libraries and such: I've never been able to reconcile my views on individual sovereignty and property rights in relation to public libraries and schools. Thomas Jefferson and I had the same problem.
An individual should not be forced to pay taxes to fund a program for the benefit of others. Yet an uneducated populace is an easy target for propaganda and dictatorship.
Of course, I won't take the time to cover the property rights of authors and publishers in regards to the free lending (which amounts legally to 'public display') of copyrighted material.
"The Tree of Liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of Patriots and Tyrants." --Thomas Jefferson
IIRC Google took out the offending links, but inserted a link to the C&D order.
Practice Kind Randomness and Beautiful Acts of Nonsense.
Is this the beginning of the end? When google stops returning the results I am looking for, it is time to start looking for a new search engine that will.
This is hilarious:
Before I even had a chance to scroll down the page to look at the DMCA message, I noticed that the Adwords are full of links to Kazaa Lite!
I guess Google's financial team is a little tougher than their search team.
It is interesting to note that the version of Google for India also carries a DMCA notice for Kazaa Lite. Does the U.S. government make worldwide law now? The DMCA is just a local law affecting less than 5% of the people in the world.
The warning is hidden at the bottom of the page (how often do we scroll down that far for results when searching through Google?). I think the warning should be the first thing on the page, with highlighted text.
Does anyone else wonder whether Kevin Burmeister is the real force behind this company? And does anyone wonder whether all the shots are really being called in LA (and not in the pacific tax-haven they'd have us all believe)? Who knows?
There still remains a difference between DMCA and it's (future) european counterpart. In the US only the big companies with much money van influence politicians. In europe people actually *can* make their voice's heard!
K-lite.tk is the site for those who want it ;)
Yes, but the DMCA basically assumes (temporarily) the guilt of the accused - if a copyright owner asserts that you are in violation, you are expected, under the law, to remove the offending content, immediately - it's like an instant temporary restraining order.
So looking at it that way, the DMCA is to blame, in this case.
Searching for "Kazaa" gives a Kazaa Lite link in the 4th position, and "Kazaa Lite" gives lots of KL links. I don't know if this means they've changed their minds or if the original change just hasn't propagated everywhere yet.
If you do same search on www.google.co.uk you get same DMCA notice of missing results. Thanks a lot USA for exporting your laws here... in return do I get to vote for one of these "congresspeople" now?
"Don't belong. Never join. Think for yourself. Peace." V.Stone, Microsoft Corporation
I'm sure there are many people who think that it was nice of the law firm to identify the best sites to download Kazaa Lite.
Google really needs to grow a spine in matters like this. Let them know how you feel about censorship by contacting them. I've posted a rant on this topic here on my site. The rant contains contact information to do something about this, but I'm not a nazi, so here:
Google can be contacted at comments@google.com.
And here:
Google, Inc.
2400 Bayshore Parkway
Mountain View CA 94043
phone: (650) 623-4000
fax: (650) 618-1499
I'm sure they would love to hear what the Slashdot crowd thinks about injustice like this.
StickMan
www.rageagainst.net
..and it came up with an article on it and more than one site listing it for download - the second link, in fact, was one such site.
How are the results lacking, precisely?
I am a viral sig. Please copy me and help me spread. Thank you
No, it takes a pair to do the right thing, regardless of the unpopular reaction it may receive.
You know this looks like big brother authoritive business. I mean when I look at this I see the DCMA group attack sites that have little or no involment with p2p sites. I mean its like attacking puppies with a lawn mower. Our right as a citizen are being violated by big business, who are attemping to control our lives. Its like the Futurama episode where they put advertisements in your dreams. Any ways Congress real research, and better information then to listen to people like the MPAA and the RIAA.
As per the complaint: a. http://www.kazaagold.com b. http://mp3download.com c. http://www.kazaalite.tk d. http://www.kaaza.com e. http://doa2.host.sk f. http://www.k-lite.tk g. http://www.kazaa-file-sharing-downloads.com h. http://www.kazaalite.nl i. http://home/hccnet.nl/h.edskes/mirror.htm j. http://www.kazaa-download.de k. http://www.zeropaid.com l. http//www.kazaalite.nl/downloads.htm m. http://kazaa.infos-du-net.com n. http://www.kazaa-lite.tk o. http://www.kazaa-lite.info We're all removed from Google listings.
Anti SCO T-Shirts donates to the Open Source Now Fund.
but they didn't do the right thing.
This space available.
I have just tried Kazaa Lite on various other search engines and meta search engines, and without fail they return at least one of the forbidden 8 sites that Google removes:
Altavista
Webcrawler
Teoma
Dogpile
Obviously not a comprehensive effort (I have a 3yr old son to entertain right now and that's much more important!), but it leads to the conclusion that either the complainant thinks the world revolves around Google OR the other sites haven't checked their mail yet!
As others have pointed out, the genie is out of the bottle and so semi-hiding the links is going to be pointless. I loved the written up DMCA complaint--putting the list of banned sites on it is kind of like having an English test question that says: Write down the correct spelling of following word: 'incomprehensible'? .
AT&ROFLMAO
-
Material violating the copyright laws exists on the web.
-
A search engine provides a hypertext link to the
infringing material.
Is the search engine technically violating copyright law? No. Is the search engine facilitating people who wish to violate copyright law? Yes.Does "facilitation" constitute violation of the law? To look at that question. Let us look at another analogy.
-
Consider a hypothetical company, "Martian Software".
It deliberately and illegally copies software and
sells them to customers.
-
The Yellow Pages carries an advertisement for "Martian
Software". The advertisment includes a phone number, an address, and a map explaining how to go to the address of "Martian Software".
The Yellow Pages is not violating copyright law but is facilitating people who wish to violate copyright law. However, in this case, "facilitation" does constitute violation of the law.By analog, the search engine in the original example is not violating the law by merely providing a link to the infringing material. We, Slashdotters, should petition the ACLU to defend the search-engine company.
need i say more?
Silly Rabbit: tricks are for kids.
I do have the copyright of the name "Hrothgar", so I am demanding you change your nickname, or stop using it.
-
Roses are #FF0000, Violets are #0000FF, find / -name '*base*' |xargs chown -R us && mv zig greatjustice
Yes, but Indians might object to being held to U.S. laws.
Really? So you get a link to a Kazaa Lite download when you google from where you live? 'Cause I sure don't.
Sentimentality is merely the Bank Holiday of cynicism.
- Oscar Wilde
Could you please tell me what is wrong about that? Because I thought it was ironic that Sharman is trying to use the DMCA to their advantage, when the DMCA is precisely what is being used against them.
I used to bulls-eye womp-rats in my pants
It seems like they ought to be, at least if any lawyer had the guts to argue it. After all, the function of a search engine is to report the current contents of the Internet - clearly a function of the press and thus protected by the First Ammendments "free press" clause.
And on another thought: if they aren't allowed to provide links, then maybe they ought to provide only plain text urls for DMCA'd items, but still leave those item in the main search results listing.
I think they should have called themselves "Shareman Networks".
Sentimentality is merely the Bank Holiday of cynicism.
- Oscar Wilde
Links to kazaa lite are gone in Japan google too..
Gee, since when did the DMCA apply in Japan?
uhh... it doesn't... even now..
So google should show such links in other countries that are not currently in the internet dark ages like the US is, and keep that country's problems out of here..
Kazaa Lite is a hacked version of Kazaa, with the spyware and adware removed.
And then you should see the kazaagold sponsored link. At least I do.
Boffoonery - downloadable Comedy Benefit for Bletchley Park
"Where have you been for the past two years?"
Oh, you mean that little thing about killing Arabs? Oh, don't worry about that. I'm sure the families of the people killed know that Americans are superior beings who should be able to decide who lives and who dies. Some people think that killing is violence, but it isn't if the U.S. government does it.
Summary:Kazaa C&Ds Google, because it's easier than tracking down all the offending sites and C&Ding them individually. The justification for the C&D - Kazaa Lite is illegal, Google is providing easy access to Kazaa Lite.
What if Google turned around and said, "Kazaa is using Google to facillitate tracking down sites infringing on its intellectual property. Please pay Google the following outrageous fee for legal research assistance."
In my opinion, C&Ding a search engine is like trying to have a municipality remove street addresses from buildings containing businesses you don't like. It's just stupid.
You can find the Google cache for the Google search for Kazaa Lite here.
While I generally hate KaZaa and such this action is setting a dangerous precedent.
.... well what's the point then?
Google isn't hosting or otherwise promoting the pirated data. They're just objectively providing web searching capabilities. If they are cut short because every interest group [scientologist for instance] want to dip their hands in how the "web should look"
I hope the lawsuit fails and google can resume a more objective product.
Tom
Someday, I'll have a real sig.
I think the parent may be referring to a bbc.co.uk article linked on Slashdot a few months ago where the author said that everyone but the ancient Greeks misuse the word 'irony'. Ironic, ain't it?
Hell is not other people; it is yourself. - Ludwig Wittgenstein
Well, my point is that I think Google did what they thought was in their own best interest. Not regarding whether providing links to sites that distribute hacked software is justifiable.
The problem is that Google is a public service utility, partly for Indians. An excellent utility like Google tends to exclude others from offering the same service. So, Indians are effectively held to U.S. law.
Gee, thanks, Google, for bending right over and taking it. Heaven forbid anybody stand up for something.
"Sufferin' succotash."
What I find amusing is that due to them removing "Kazaa Lite" from the google search, that suddenly most links are to K++ downloads, which is not only Kazaa Lite, but a program that "hacks" the client so people can get maximum participation level, unlimited search mores and removes the limitation on maximum simulataneous downloads locations for one file.
kinda defeats the purpose when you list the sites in question on the dmca complaint page.
Runnin' On Empty
They list all the blocked links in the complaint, which google points to as a mention of why they blocked the sites:
a. http://www.kazaagold.com
b. http://mp3download.com
c. http://www.kazaalite.tk
d. http://www.kaaza.com
e. http://doa2.host.sk
f. http://www.k-lite.tk
g. http://www.kazaa-file-sharing-downloads.com
h. http://www.kazaalite.nl
i. http://home/hccnet.nl/h.edskes/mirror.htm
j. http://www.kazaa-download.de
k. http://www.zeropaid.com
l. http//www.kazaalite.nl/downloads.htm
m. http://kazaa.infos-du-net.com
n. http://www.kazaa-lite.tk
o. http://www.kazaa-lite.info
Score: Google 1
Kazaa 0
DMCA 0
You could consider kazaa.com using legal means to manipulate the apparent ranking of other kazaa-related websites as an artificial means to improve their own rank.
Perhaps all Kazaa.com related results should be demoted by the same number of sites that they've had banned?
In reality though this would probably just detract further from the quality of Google's results though it might deter future DMCA complaints to Google.
Boffoonery - downloadable Comedy Benefit for Bletchley Park
It seems that once again it's time to place Blue ribbons on our websites and webpages...
Future Wiki -- If you don't think about the future, you cannot have one.
Ok, this discussion is bringing up a good question that I am sure a lot of us are having, what do we do about the DMCA other than writing our congressman? Is there a strongly organized group against it that we can join? Does anyone know one? I personally think this law is doing more damage than good, and the damage heavily outways the good it was intended to do. I just would like to know if anyone has started a major organized movement against the DMCA. If so does anyone have any sites they recommend to these organizations? Any help would be appriciated and I think everyone else in the discussion would benifit as well! :)
...google won't be able to link to any patented, trade marked, or service marked material, either...without explicit written consent by the owners, or a fee to said owners. Gee, I guess all search engines should just take themselves off the web now, and save us all the headache.
If enough Indians decide they want an alternative to the censored U.S. service, then they'll create one. If they think the quality of service outweighs the disadvantages, then they won't. Simple as that. Either way, it is still the choice of citizens of India: no U.S. law will prevent them from that choice.
Google accepted that to spare a few pennies with laywers. They thought "'kaza lite'? only 0.00001% of the queries... screw them"
:)
but if you all that felt that this is wrong change your bookmarks to, brazillian google that let's you find kaza lite, then they will see that they must spend those pennies to keep the community "buying" their products.
that's the essence of capitalism. If you don't like one's product, or if you have anything agains that business, just don't buy from them. That will make they change their policies or make better products (or die, leaving room for another one with better policies and/or better products to fill the gap)
ok that "buying" from google brazil isn't the best way to make them care.. maybe force yourself to use altavista instead for one or two week
There isn't much that you can do about this, but I suggest at least sending an e-mail to Google. Let them know what people think. I just sent an e-mail and informed them that I will not use Google to search for anything other than "kazaa lite", unless the links are restored.
P.S. This once again demonstrates the danger of the "whole Internet" depending on a single monopoly, no matter how well-intended and how much liked by the users. This is a risk that we should not agree to bear.
Future Wiki -- If you don't think about the future, you cannot have one.
Apparently there are pieces of information that Americans are not allowed to write down. We are definitely edging towards thought crime here. Between this and the illegality of writing virii (i know its spelled wrong but it looks better), we are on our way! I just wonder when someone will get punished for writing these things with pen & paper instead of electronically...
No. On those grounds one can copyright email addresses, phone numbers, snail mail addresses, directory trees....
This sig no verb.
It reminded me to update my K++ installation to the newest version. Thanks.
Setting his threshold to 5, Sparky eliminated most of the trolls on /.
Google is NOT a public service utility, it's a commercial venture supported by advertising. Its function is to make money for its owners, not to provide a utility such as natural gas, electricity, or water to residents of a locale. While it may appear that they're providing some public services, the ads you get at the top and right side of each search (links to buy items) are how Google makes money. Anyway, you're using a US-based search engine. Anytime you use a service based in another country, you're subject to that country's laws. If you don't like it, don't use it. Don't expect a company to break laws in its jurisdiction just because you expect a free service with no limitations.
Generally the DMCA has been very successful at limiting the utility of the ebooks to libraries, who might, for example, be prohibited against loaning them out!!
This is one reason why the DMCA has to go.
LedgerSMB: Open source Accounting/ERP
(Stopping after one verse and hoping that's within the limts of 'fair use' as defined this week.)
[100% ISO 646 Compliant]
SVM, ERGO MONSTRO.
by simply redirecting every search for "kazaa" to competing networks like morpheus, gnutella, opennap etc.
I wonder how fast they would drop their DMCA complaint
I would agree if this were a judgement against them. This is only a complaint. That's cowardly in my book.
"I'd rather be a lightning rod than a seismometer." -Ken Kesey
Funny thing is, several of the censored links points to sucker-sites, where all you can get is a dialer. This disconnect your line to your provider, than re-establish a pricy connect to download something (maybe really kazaa-lite, have not tested).
:)
So, this time Sherman and DMCA protect you
This whole issue is just sad but what I wonder is if the same notice was sent to other search engines? I believe Yahoo uses a lot of Google technology so that comparison isn't good but take AltaVista for example. Search for Kazaa Lite there and you see the first, second, third, fourth, fifth, sixth and probably more (got tired of counting) links are links listed in the DMCA suit.
Why is this interesting? Google is a company whose business is to deliver the best results for any given search. If through the process of lawsuits, they no longer deliver the best results, users go elsewhere. So if all these companies target Google and only Google, in theory, eventually they could bring it down to a second rate service. I know you cannot selectively enforce patents (for this same reason), but not a clue about this lovely DMCA law.
Sharman Networks Asks Slashdot To Remove Readers' Posts
"taking somethingoff the internet is like trying to take the pee out of a swimming pool"
-have no idea who said this.
All Troll + "offtopic" mods are meta moderated as "Unfair", because you abused the system.
http://boycott.dmusic.com/music/stream/hifi/34031 very similar we did last Dec.
Google provides a link to the "NOTICE OF COPYRIGHT INFRINGEMENT" that Google was served. Here you'll find a list of the DMCA offending links. I suppose it's only a matter of time before the Notice itself is copyrighted, making such a posting illegal under DMCA. That would require yet another "NOTICE OF COPYRIGHT INFRINGEMENT"!!
How about a punitive action of taking away all official Kazaa sites from the search string Kazaa?
Odd, when they make it public information on their website (whose URL isn't blocked out in the PDF file) and they don't have any other branches:
Stubbs Alderton & Markiles, L.L.P.
15821 Ventura Boulevard
Suite 525
Encino, CA 91436
(818) 444-4500
(818) 444-4520 fax
info@biztechlaw.com e-mail
On a side note -- honestly curious, not meant to be trolling -- how is 378,000 results "a bit lacking"? And they only removed 14?
As for the blocked links, "the Internet interprets censorship as damage and routes around it." -- L. Peter Deutsch (or John Gilmore)
Alltheweb
Before I settled on Google, I remember these guys were running neck and neck with Google producing very high quality search results. Give it a try.
It's a shame Google chose to remove the links instead of fighting the case.
It's important to get an expansion of fair use from congress. I don't think that'll happen, though, and we'll all be the worse for it.
Does anyone know of any other situations where Google has had to filter their results? I wonder what else we could be missing by assuming Google's results are so accurate and undoctored. At least there is a disclaimer at the bottom of the kazaa lite search results (for now).
You beat me to it.
First thing I did, even before posting, was to check the complaint.
Big Brother Bush is doubleplus ungood.
The reason that this was blocked was because kazaalite contains an ip blocker, with an automatic updater to get new ranges of RIAA scanners, MPAA, etc. Its hard to get a subpeona when the connection is dropped. So why not block access to a kazaalite site by dropping its largest referrer, google.
Also to clear things up, there are different kazaa types.
Kazaa -- Normal Kazaa
Kazaagold -- Pay-for-Kazaa
Kazaadiet -- Simple spyware removal
Kazaalite -- Spyware removal, more features, and third party tools
Kazaalite k++ -- Different from kazaalite, includes more features, and a constant pl of 1000
The only problem I had was that google didn't turn the text in the complaint into links. (You know, "Oops. Our software does that automatically,")
Big Brother Bush is doubleplus ungood.
-have no idea who said this.
According to this site it's from News Radio.
Yeah, I found it by using Google.
If that's what you want, why not trundle of and use the Google News tech section? It's not like anyones forcing you to stay.
Geeze. I didn't even notice Google'd linked to Chilling Effects. Bwahahaha! That means that the first thing Google did was contact either the Berkman Center or EFF and get them to put up the complaint immediately so they could link to it in a location which is going to be very hard to shut down. They're just begging for someone to try to use the DMCA on it.
I wonder if we're going to see more on this. It looks a bit like a setup to make the DMCA look like the stupid law it is.
Big Brother Bush is doubleplus ungood.
> ...filed a legal complaint to block Kazaa Lite...
I see no evidence that any legal complaint has been filed. A "Cease and Desist" letter is not a legal complaint.
> It's scary that the DMCA makes URLs a copyright
> violation.
It doesn't.
Warning: this article may contain humor, sarcasm, parody, and perhaps even irony. Read at your own risk.
There are two kinds of people: 1) those who start arrays with one and 1) those who start them with zero.
They are distributing modified Kazaa material without permission.
It would be like me distributing Linux with the GPL notices removed.
When you want somethin', and you don't want to pay for it...
KazaaLite is a hack of Kazaa, and thus blatant piracy.
Not necessarily so. The people of Kazaa Lite could have reversed engineered Kazaa as to the protocols, and made a program that logs onto their network. Nothing illegal about that at all.
If people say incorrect stuff like this, forgetting that reverse engineering is LEGAL, it simply makes it easier for that right to be eroded or taken away.
There's really no point in asking the ACLU to step in because Google hasn't expressed an interest in defending themselves from this in the first place.
Simply, they aren't asking for help; they're just caving in. Why bother helping them?
Let them watch their users start leaving because of this, and perhaps at that point they will want to defend themselves and enlist the help of the ACLU or the EFF.
Where can I find a list of all Lite URLS? But where else, in the complaint itself! Seems I'll be bmarking Chilling Effects as an underground search engine now.
Now, instead of one click, it takes one click, one copy-n-paste, and one keystroke to view the sites. Just click on the complaint link.
Litigious bastards
The fact that Google is doing something that everyone needs, and doing it very well, tends to make it impossible for others to compete. An Indian company would find it difficult or impossible to compete with Google. So, there is an issue for Indians that they are being held to U.S. law.
Petroleum, for example, is supplied by profit-making companies, but there is consideration in the U.S. government to define petroleum as a public service, so that Petroleum companies will be required to give more information about how they are operating. (That's because we have $2.00 now, with no explanation about why the price increased, even though the additional Iraqi oil has entered the market.)
This Google thing is a trivial example, because the facts are that Google, in cooperation with the Kazaa law firm, are advertising Kazaa Lite, not suppressing it. Because of them we are now getting something more, not less. We are getting Kazaa's understanding of the best places to get Kazaa Lite.
Another issue of this same nature, that is not trivial, is that Microsoft has made an operating system that has become the only operating system used by most people. An Indian company, or a company from any country, would find it very, very difficult to compete with Microsoft. So Indians are being bound to Microsoft's low quality. Indians who use Microsoft Windows are vulnerable to all the many, many security holes, and departments of the U.S. government are known to exploit those holes. This is particularly severe for the Indian government, that may not want to be under hidden control by the U.S. government. That's why Linux is so extremely important.
We are living in a connected world, and we cannot pretend that we are not responsible for all the effects of our actions.
To: Sharman Networks
To whom it may concern,
We are pleased to see others taking a stand against the providing of links to illegal versions of copyrighted works. We agree wholeheartedly with your stand that providing search results to copyrighted material is a criminal act. As someone who obviously upholds our philosophy we KNOW that you will be all too happy to remove from any search results that your software provides any links to dowloads of copyrighted works such as music, movies, other software and the like.
Thank you so much for proving our point!
IDIOTS!
The Matrix is real... but I'm only visiting!
respond to these dmca requests by also removing and and all links to the company making the requests. Sharman networks makes this request, they, their products and their site then cease to exist in the google database as well.
Why not go to this page and complain to google that you are fed up with this nonsense and will change search engines as a response... http://www.google.com/contact/search.html
The power to lay and collect taxes is limited in that it only applies to the funding of government powers to execute responsibilities specifically enumerated in the Constitution.
Article I, section 8:
All DMCA powers spring from Congress's power under the commerce clause and the copyright clause.
Will I retire or break 10K?
When I can trade karma for a blowjob, then I'll give a shit
I'm sure there are thousands of basement-dwelling geekboys who would be only too happy to oblige...
They can say whatever they want in those things. It dosn't that it would hold up in court. 99% of the stuff in those things is BS.
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
Talk about ironic.
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
I'm the type of person that villifies the NRA.
there are loads of things that gun makers could do to make them unusable by children or even people who don't own them. some have tried but were scared off because the retards at the NRA boycotted them, which gun makers can't afford.
and the US government couldn't give a sh!t about how many kids are killed so won't make the safety features legally required.
for some reason, the NRA freaks think "A well regulated milita..." means that regulations are unconstitutional...
Do a google on "goatse" and you'll find it cathegorized as "Society, Religion and Spirituality, ... , Scientology"
I clicked on the sample search for "Kazaa Lite" and the second link said "download Kazaa Lite K++" and the third link said "Official Kazaa Lite K++ Website"
Google: 1-0
Sharman: 0-1
The people of Kazaa Lite could have reversed engineered Kazaa as to the protocols...
Except they didn't, they took the Kazaa package, removed and renamed some files, modified others, and redistributed the result under a name that was intentionally very similar. What else can you call this but "crooked". Redistributing modified versions of someone's non-OSS package...
Try it, you will see for yourself.
Ceci n'est pas une signature
Great Google-ey Moogle-ey!!
How ya like dat?
The second mistake is to assume that public schools help people resist propaganda. That's just silly. Without public schools, people would probably be better than they are now at recognizing propaganda because they wouldn't have been subjected to so much irrational dogmatic nonsense disguised as education. Having a single legal monopoly provider of education services in a huge geographic region makes it much easier for those who want to bias the curriculum in various ways to do so by dumbing down the textbooks and in other ways influencing the statewide curriculum.
In a more competitive system, teaching methods and information sources would be more varied with different schools trying different approaches. There'd be no single point of failure, no solitary commitee one could influence in order to change the information that 90% of the students in a state are exposed to. So the propagandist's task would be harder than it is today.
I play Nerd-Folk!
I noticed this yesterday. Got me a new lappy, and wanted to download a couple things. Searched google for kazaalite, and couldn't find the link I was looking for (even though I distinctly remember finding it on Google last week) so what did i do? I used another search engine.. (http://www.dogpile.com actually)
So If I file a complaint against KMD, will their links get removed too?
Maybe it's due to ignorance on my part, but what exactly has google done wrong in this case that they deserve the wrath of the DMCA? I really can't figure it out. WIll someone be kind enough to explain it to me?
Next thing you know, Sharman Networks will cite the DMCA to Slashdot in order to get the links that slashdotters have posted, removed.
How long before libraries can't index books? Or own them?
Right after this stops being illogical.
Comparing it to Windows will be a moot point, since El Dorado is going to have a 40% larger code base than XP.
If you already know about Kazaa Lite, why would you be searching for it on Google? Why not just type the url and be done with it?
Aside from that, I'd guess that most people found Kazaa via download.com or by word of mouth, not through Google. We all love Google, but removing those urls isn't gonna slow Kazaa down at all.
Whether they wimped out or not, you have to give it to them. They managed to abide by the copyright holders wishes, avoid a potential lawsuit, and still let people get hold of the links they may want (through reading the complaint). Wheather they wimped out or not, they were very clever about it.
No, we're not going to protest Google, silly... We need the tech-savy Google staff to perform an organized protest just like the UK software patent protest.
For a single day, Google should delist all search terms where the DMCA has been used to try to force Google to break only selected links.
If Google indiscriminately cutoff all of these links, then Sharman (Kazaa), Church of Scientology, and many other sites would be hurt by their own actions. If the wording were right on the "delisted" search result page, perhaps this would even bring the outrage of the DMCA to public attention.
What a fitting application of the golden rule!
Anyone who can help me get this idea to the top at Google?
No doubt Google desires to be apolitical, but the DMCA (and software patents) will kill even their business model if this progression is not reversed soon.
Some books are already under restricted access ( or removed totally ) at your public library, courtesy of the patriot act.. or various 'anti-hate' laws, here in the USA.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
Perhaps a simple name change to K-Lite would be enough to get these guys off our backs..
But i agree, its rather hypocritical of Sharman to bitch about what hardly amounts to infringement when they promote REAL infringement..
This suit happy mentality has got to stop.. its going to destroy our very way of life.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
in my signature... :)
Hmm. Maybe this could be something.
First, you take the Kazaa distribution file. Then you take the Kazaa-lite distribution file, XOR it with the legit Kazaa distribution file.
Combine the resulting data into an utility program that takes the legit Kazaa distribution file, XORs it with the data, thus producing the Kazaa-lite file.
Let's call it LightenKZ.exe
[ Kazaa ] XOR [ Kazaa-lite ] = [ LightenKZ.exe ]
then
[ Kazaa ] XOR [ LightenKZ.exe ] = [ Kazaa-lite ]
Now, there is *NO* copyright infringement, as [ LightenKZ.exe ] is NEITHER Kazaa nor Kazaa-lite .
What gets me is that Google isn't listing the URLs for other languages or countries.
I know that there is nothing to stop people in the US from using foreign google searches but must the rest of the world be subjected to bad US laws?...
That's weak. No matter what substansive examples of "non-infringing use" you can come up with, it's pretty obvious to anyone who'se been around awhile that the original TCP/IP protocol stack and utilities like ftp were designed for legitimate purposes. It's also pretty obvious what Napster and Kazaa were designed for. If you want to pretend that these were designed for sharing mom's blueberry recipies with five billion of your closest friends, that's fine with me, but don't expect anyone to believe it.
CEE5210S The signal SIGHUP was received.
Traditionally, foreign entities and nationals bringing legal action in the US have been almost singularlly unsuccessful.
:D
*reads it a bit further* my Australian great-aunt married a US serviceman after WW2 and lives in upstate NY. Does this mean I am allowed to bring civil actions in the US?
Hmm, it seems like Microsoft has some sort of immunization against DMCA: MSN still shows all those links without any worning :)
Less is more !
Besides making your complaint heard among a crowd of complainers, which will not be heard by the people responsible, why not complain to those that are responsible for this? Emails to kazaa.com might be ignored, but those to the law firms must be read by someone. It is hard for them to simply do a mass delete of emails since doing so will severely limit their ability to represent the client. especially when they delete something that may have bearing on the case.
.jpg format, I assume to stop spam bots from harvesting, but for those interested:
The posted complaint had the user specific data removed, but the domain information remained (biztechlaw.com).
Whois info for, biztechlaw.com (note: they canot even properlly spell their own company name):
Registrant:
Business & Technolgy Law Group
19687 Los Alimos Street
Chatsworth, CA 91311
US
Domain name: BIZTECHLAW.COM
Administrative Contact:
Alderton, Scott salderton@eglgroup.com
19687 Los Alimos Street
Chatsworth, CA 91311
US
818-486-1970 Fax: 818-363-7249
Technical Contact:
Administrator, Domain domreg@infostreet.com
18345 Ventura Blvd
Ste 416
Tarzana, CA 91356
US
818 776 8080 Fax: 818 776 2999
Registration Service Provider:
InfoStreet, Inc., domreg@infostreet.com
818 776 8080
This company may be contacted for domain login/passwords,
DNS/Nameserver changes, and general domain support questions.
Registrar of Record: TUCOWS, INC.
Record last updated on 18-Aug-2003.
Record expires on 22-Mar-2012.
Record Created on 22-Mar-2002.
Domain servers in listed order:
NS1.BDE3D.COM 66.186.13.144
NS.BDE3D.COM 64.60.8.163
A google search of biztechlaw.com also shows and email address of salderton@biztechlaw.com.
A search on this guy turns up a bit of irony as one of the first hits: "Scott Alderton will moderate a panel discussion on "Venturing in New Media: A Content Meltdown?" " Content meltdown eh?
The contact page on their website is in
Stubbs Alderton & Markiles, LLP
15821 Ventura Boulevard, Suite 525
Encino, CA 91436
office 818-444-4500
fax 818-444-4520
email info@biztechlaw.com
The partners seem to be Scott Alderton (direct 818-444-4501; fax 818-474-8601; salderton@biztechlaw.com), Joe Stubbs (direct 818-444-4507; fax 818-474-8607; jstubbs@biztechlaw.com), and Murray Markiles (direct,818.444.4505; fax 818-474-8605; mmarkiles@biztechlaw.com).
Those that participate in usenet, copy the data and post it so interested parties may contact Kazaa'a representation so as to convey their personal opinions. I sent them an email already of what I felt concerning their actions and those of their client.
Cave, wreck, and deep diver.
Most contries are signatories to the WTO treaty. This gives all business located in any WTO country the same standing in court. A US corporation has all the rights of citizenship except for the vote (they are actually allowed to give more money to politicians than people are allowed to), so if you just file the papers to establish a corporation in your country you can sue anyone in the USA.
the music and movie industry is using?
I do not feel sorry for Sharman Networks any longer. At this point I almost hope that the music and movie industry put them out of business. It seems stupid, to me, to ask someone to remove access to sites that may be infringing upon your material all the while fighting against the exact same request from the music and movie industry but hey, what do I know.
Always wonderd wher ethat came from.
All Troll + "offtopic" mods are meta moderated as "Unfair", because you abused the system.
how long before those two get intimidated to ?
i cle-xmule.php.html).
i guess they'll censor xMule first knowing what's happening to main developper
(http://home.regit.org/datas/html/art
they really work hard to scare the masses!
"Forced recreation, live in London!"
Big karma to whoever identifies the quote, in context.
for instance there is a "company" called "Sun Biometrics".
If you enter that into google you get their website top of the list
Sun Biometrics
But if you read this, you'll find the whole deal is fake, but google insists on giving it legitimacy by listing it. And I actually had an email conversation with them suggesting that was a bad idea but they said they couldn't edit their lists. Bullshit.
-- it must be true, it's on the internet.
If Gamespot took the images themselves, they are doing the equivalent of taking a photograph. As a photograph can have significant creative value, it can be copyrightable.
So yes, under US law, Gamespot can have a copyright on the images they take of other company's games. This doesn't preclude, necessarily, the original gaming company from also having some degree of copyright jurisdiction over the image as it is a derivitave work. But that basically grants them the right to veto a usage of the work, not to override the other partner's veto of a usage of the work.
Basically, if you were in America and that law applied to you, they would have a strong case. IANAL, but if I were you I would steal some ROMS and take your own screenshots. It's better to stay on the safe side of the law.
The ______ Agenda
Actually, KazaaLite isn't a hack, it is a selective installer. Instead of modifying the code for the program, it takes the original packages and selectively installs only the parts that the end-user would want.
If they distributed this separately, it would be a total non-issue. The fact that they are distributed together is what leads to copyright violation. But a hack? No. Blatant Piracy? Words have meaning, and in this case "Blatant Piracy" isn't what you mean.
The ______ Agenda
There's nothing wrong with a pro-Mozilla bias. It IS the shiznits. I've got it running amicibily on all our disparate platforms.
And google is definitely not nerd news, just news that happens to appear prominently on the Internet. There's a weak correlation there, but it's not systemic or intentional.
Fuck Beta. Fuck Dice
...is about a million people saying "Oh, the irony!"
// file: mice.h
#include "frickin_lasers.h"
Here's an idea... Keep guns out of reach of children. Just like knives... and matches, and medicine, and anything else that can be dangerous. Don't let them play in the streets... Heck, be parents! It's impossible to make *everything* safe for children. That is one of the jobs of a parent. Personally, I think the NRA is waay too obsessed with guns. But that is what happens when you have gun control advocates that are nuts as well, Things tend to balance out. Waaay off topic, but it's the same deal with DMCA advocates/opposition... Both sides of people on issues tend to put distance between each other, and thus move further, and further from the middle. Those of us that despise the DMCA have some of the best minds in the world backing us up. With an organized "resistance" we'd win rather easily. I'm just waiting for the day when it gets organized enough for this to happen.
http://www.infoworld.com/article/03/08/28/HNkaz_1. html?source=rss&url=http://www.infoworld.com/artic le/03/08/28/HNkaz_1.html
I imagine this is why Sharman Networks took the action they did. For morals' sake, I think we should try to find another P2P network!
It's an interesting story, and troubling that google is once again positioning itself as a censor..but I still found plenty of links for downloading kazaa lite, if I had wanted to. Just a little more creativity involved is all.
Any and all of the sites on the list can get themselves relisted simply by asking Google to do so. It's not as though Kazaa is actually going to bring suit against them, is it?
If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
So what happens if I search Kazaa for "kazaa lite"? Oh, good. Bye, google.
You see? You see? Your stupid minds! Stupid! Stupid!
I also got one from my ISP (Comcast). Apparently my roomie downloaded a "cracked" version (it showed up in a websearch) of a program that she wanted to try and installed it. It didn't work, but it pointed her to the RIGHT site and she downloaded the demo -- which did work. But a week later, we got a letter (snailmail) telling me that we are violating the DMCA and need to explain what we are doing about it -- it even contained the name of the program and the words "cracked version." Apparently the program "phones home" when it thinks it is a cracked version.
So much for them ever selling either of us... or anyone we know... that software!
Open Content friendly recording companies
Open Content recordings must be made of Open Content musical works. (Musical works are created by songwriters and reproduced in sheet music; recordings are created by performers and audio engineers and reproduced in audio CDs.) If a songwriter decides to write Open Content musical works, how can he or she verify that the songs are in fact original musical works?
Will I retire or break 10K?
have been posted before on Slashdot
There haven't been too many, (check SecurityFocus) which is good, plus it gives you a reason to have a little healthy zeal. And it makes it all the more important to not ignore potential problems.
And it's not like we shun Konqueror or Opera here or anything, you know?
Fuck Beta. Fuck Dice
Kazaa of all companies whom makes its living violating this law is complaining that other companies are pirating their software and name! Ha! How ironic. How hilarious! If I was Google I would have laughed in their face!
Anybody who would bother entering "kazaa lite" into google will be referred to almost 390,000 links; the second one is a download site for the evil product. The link to the nastygram does appear at the bottom of the first page, but outside of generating a lot of noise on /. it has no effect. (If you will allow that noice on /. is an effect.....)
No, but it is probably a derivative work of both.
"Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity." -- Hanlon's Razor