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Quantum Cryptography Gets Nanotube Boost

c1ay writes "In an article at the ScienceDaily News it is reported that two researchers at the University of Rochester have discovered a new property of carbon nanotubes, ideal photon emission. "The emission bandwidth is as narrow as you can get at room temperature," says Lukas Novotny, professor of optics at Rochester and co-author of the study. Such a narrow and steady emission can make such fields as quantum cryptography and single-molecule sensors a practical reality. RSA and Elliptic Curve wouldn't stand a chance against this unbreakable encryption."

209 comments

  1. distributed.net by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    When will they have a quantum encryption cracking competition? Go Team Slashdot!

    1. Re:distributed.net by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Righto! wooo wooo woo! go SETI yah yah yah!

      danny~!

    2. Re:distributed.net by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > When will they have a quantum encryption cracking competition? Go Team Slashdot!

      A superposition of all Anonymous Cowards might be able to write Shakespeare given enough time.

  2. No cryptography is unbreakable... by SixDimensionalArray · · Score: 1

    Any cryptographer would know that.. it just might take 10^19 years to crack a key!

    1. Re:No cryptography is unbreakable... by airConditionedGypsy · · Score: 2, Insightful

      A one time pad is 'unbreakable'

      --
      I bootleg Fizzy Lifting Drinks.
    2. Re:No cryptography is unbreakable... by eu_neke · · Score: 0

      And how relevant is the encrypted content likeley to be after that long, eh?

    3. Re:No cryptography is unbreakable... by SixDimensionalArray · · Score: 2, Interesting

      That is true only if the numbers are completely random and never repeat. If a one-time pad's numbers ever repeat, even by chance, then hypothetically it can be broken. So if you have a true, perfect random-number generator, you may be correct.

    4. Re:No cryptography is unbreakable... by nacturation · · Score: 2, Troll

      A one time pad is 'unbreakable'

      You can still brute-force a one-time pad.

      --
      Want to improve your Karma? Instead of "Post Anonymously", try the "Post Humously" option.
    5. Re:No cryptography is unbreakable... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Troll?

      Of course you can't brute force a one-time pad, not usefully. Each key is equally likely, and you never know if your "decrypted" message is the correct one.

      This assumes, of course, that the key is truly random.

    6. Re:No cryptography is unbreakable... by airConditionedGypsy · · Score: 1

      That doesn't make sense in the context of a OTP. The OTP is as long as your plaintext input, and every bit of the input is XOR'd with the OTP. You can't tell the difference. How do you propose to brute force that?

      --
      I bootleg Fizzy Lifting Drinks.
    7. Re:No cryptography is unbreakable... by _LFTL_ · · Score: 4, Informative
      You can still brute-force a one-time pad.

      Maybe you were being sarcastic, but to those who don't know you can't brute force a one-time pad. When you look at all possible results for brute forcing a one-time pad; it's all possible plain text combinations for that length of message. So there could be 1000s of message that "make sense" but you'll never be able to tell which is the right one unless you already know a lot about the message being sent.

    8. Re:No cryptography is unbreakable... by t--f-c · · Score: 2, Informative

      brute force in the sense of trying just tons of combinations, but with a true one time pad any one result is just as likely as any other so there is no determinant way to truly break a true one time pad. You couldn't ever tell if a 5 character piece encrypted with a one time pad would say "Hello" or "bitch" because the possible combinations with an unknown one time pad are just as likely

    9. Re:No cryptography is unbreakable... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Not in this case. It's one of the deeply ingrained features of quantum cryptography, that the act of reading the message, even in the encrypted form, changes the content. It is in fact unbreakable, on a very elementary physical level.

    10. Re:No cryptography is unbreakable... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's obviously a joke. . .

    11. Re:No cryptography is unbreakable... by SixDimensionalArray · · Score: 2, Informative

      To skip right to the heart of it, from the article, here's how it can be broken:

      "Quantum cryptographic techniques provide no protection against the classic bucket brigade attack (also known as the ``man-in-the-middle attack''). In this scheme, an eavesdropper, E (``Eve'') is assumed to have the capacity to monitor the communications channel and insert and remove messages without inaccuracy or delay." http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~jford/crypto.html

      Not exactly "unbreakable". Thanks to whoever posted that link earlier.

    12. Re:No cryptography is unbreakable... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Funny

      No tardmuffin, you can't.

      Heh..."tardmuffin" is a funny word. :-)

    13. Re:No cryptography is unbreakable... by Ignis+Flatus · · Score: 4, Funny

      You can still brute-force a one-time pad.

      Maybe so, but he still won't talk. All our one-time pads are equiped with a special cyanide-filled tooth to bite down on, just in case they are captured.

    14. Re:No cryptography is unbreakable... by nacturation · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      Heh..."tardmuffin" is a funny word. :-)

      "pusmuffin" is funnier.

      --
      Want to improve your Karma? Instead of "Post Anonymously", try the "Post Humously" option.
    15. Re:No cryptography is unbreakable... by ph43thon · · Score: 1

      from what I can tell.. the Quantum Key Exchange can be compromised IF "eve" is able to "insert and remove messages without inaccuracy or delay." Now, simply by reading the photons at a certain polarization, Eve is screwing up the transmission.. So it's only compromised in this way if each bit of a key is transmitted using a burst of photons instead of just one. Then maybe eve could snatch only one.. and then maybe store it until she found out what the polarization scheme was. THEN she could record which direction the photon was oriented.

      It seems pretty secure.. Theoretically, if they only have to send one photon for each bit of the potential key... it should be unbreakable. The explanations given in some of the links were very poor. The Jamie guy from Dartmouth (http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~jford/crypto.html) doesn't seem to give a very good exploration of the "quantum privacy attacks" The whole point of Quantum Crypto is that an eavesdropper has to guess which polarization scheme to measure photon orientation.. and their guess will be identical the the intended receiver's only half the time (generally)..

      Mainly, quantum crypto is supposed to allow secure key exchange over insecure lines.

      p

    16. Re:No cryptography is unbreakable... by mikeg22 · · Score: 1

      Well if you brute force with all combinations, one will give the plaintext...so in a sense you have cracked the code.

      Nevermind, that was just stupid, I'm going back to bed now.

    17. Re:No cryptography is unbreakable... by menscher · · Score: 4, Informative
      It's rather unfortunate that that article is getting so much attention, considering it's wrong.

      The link you provide assumes that Eve can monitor the communications channel and insert/remove messages. Yes, those are the prerequisites for a MITM attack. But those are also precisely the things that quantum crypto protects you against.

      The link assumes that photons will be sent in bursts, rather than one at a time. This is not the case. They are actually sent fairly infrequently, in order to avoid the possibility that two could be sent simultaneously. Also, even if more than one were sent, it is unlikely to be helpful to an attacker, since multiple photons would not necessarily have the same characteristics.

      The link furthermore makes the assertion that Eve could somehow duplicate a photon. This makes it clear that the author is a CS grad student and not a physics grad student. The Heisenberg uncertainty principle prevents this duplication.

      In short, don't believe everything you read... especially if it's on the web.

    18. Re:No cryptography is unbreakable... by TheGatekeeper · · Score: 2, Informative

      The key distribution problem can be partially solved by quantum mechanics using the idea of quantum key distribution (QKD). The first and best-known protocol, usually called "BB84" because it was published in 1984 by Charles Bennett and Gilles Brassard,6 is described in the box below. In a prototypical QKD protocol, Alice sends some nonorthogonal quantum states to Bob, who makes some measurements. Then, by talking on the phone (which need not be secure), they decide if Eve has tampered with the quantum states. If not, they have a shared key that is guaranteed to be secret. Note that Alice and Bob must share some authentication information to begin with; otherwise, Bob has no way to know that the person on the phone is really Alice, and not a clever mimic. The key generated by QKD can subsequently be used for both encryption and authentication, thus achieving two major goals in cryptography.

      Taken from Physics Today

      --
      'The staff in the hand of a wizard may be more than a prop for age,' -Hamá, the doorward
    19. Re:No cryptography is unbreakable... by sessamoid · · Score: 3, Funny
      >You can still brute-force a one-time pad. Maybe you were being sarcastic, but to those who don't know you can't brute force a one-time pad.

      You can indirectly "brute force" break a one-time pad, however. It works like this:

      1) Intercept the message.
      2) Go to the person who sent the message.
      3) Beat him repeatedly in pain-sensitive areas until he agrees to give you the one-time pad.
      4) Profit?

      Voila! One-time pad.... broken!

      --
      "No, no, no. Don't tug on that. You never know what it might be attached to."
    20. Re:No cryptography is unbreakable... by peculiarmethod · · Score: 1, Insightful

      "if you brute force with all combinations, one will give the plaintext...so in a sense you have cracked the code."

      Yeah, it cracks me up that a larger portion of sd will reply with statistical assumptions based on textual logic, when finding useful information in collected in encrypted streams (disected by best guesses with 'fun in bruting') is more like looking for a rainbow in an Irish field, rather than looking for genetic sequences in a massive punnett square. It seems even smart people have a problem removing their obvservation from strict learned logic. oh well. Let's hope an increased reading rate (that which our children are now recieving, partly in thanks to new pda/cellies) will bring abstract notions into vogue once more.

      Our language is full of rules that are overly simplified, which makes it much much easier to recognize a pattern for an observing human once one falls into or nearly into place. Math, thankfully, is not a new subject.. the tricks are plentiful. Too bad most people aren't patient enough to sit and watch outputs for long periods of time, anymore.

      oh well, once again..

      pm

      --
      ** "It's not my job to stand between the people talking to me, and the ones listening to me." -- Pego the Jerk
    21. Re:No cryptography is unbreakable... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Holy crap, I read this 5 times and I still can't make out what you're trying to say. Do you really talk like that?

      PS: It makes no sense to brute force one time pads.

    22. Re:No cryptography is unbreakable... by peculiarmethod · · Score: 1

      "Holy Crap, I read this 5 times and I cannot do yet outside what you try to say. Do you really speak like that?"

      Only when you are logged in.

      FYI: Brute forcing is fun.

      --
      ** "It's not my job to stand between the people talking to me, and the ones listening to me." -- Pego the Jerk
    23. Re:No cryptography is unbreakable... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting
      Brute force this:

      begin 600 out
      ED^7"L.LN&T<.-89"`6?.=$2HI031$1'U(IE[,8T&)CMA *ZADO0``
      `
      end


      Have fun, you'll never get it.


      And no, uudecoding it isn't the "solution". Uudecode then try and brute force the result.

    24. Re:No cryptography is unbreakable... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      I am sorry, while you are completely right that this is in practice unfeasible, photon number splitting (PNS) attacks are well studied attacks. If you want some serious information about it, have a look at quant-ph/0302037. There are analysis for PNS attacks with actual (and good) parameters for photon emission, which show that e.g. BB84 over 50km would be insecure against these attacks.

      Basically you don't want to duplicate photons, you just steal a photon. If there are losses on the quantum channel (which is the case), then Bob cannot be able to distinguish if the photons have been stolen or lost. The assumption is that Eve has noiseless connections from Alice and to Bob.

      And yes, I am a CS grad. But I know a couple of theoretical physicists who would agree with me ;-)

    25. Re:No cryptography is unbreakable... by tiled_rainbows · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Some repetition is a feature of randomness - as the string of random numbers gets larger, is beomes more and more likely that there will be a repetition somewhere. A very long string of numbers in which no sequence was repeated would be astronomically unlikely, and therefore not 'really' random.

    26. Re:No cryptography is unbreakable... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      FYI: Brute forcing is fun.

      No man, you're supposed to buy them drinks.

    27. Re:No cryptography is unbreakable... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This quantum cryptography relies on certain assumptions about the underlying physical reality. A new Newton or Einstein could invalidate all these assumptions about the current quantum theoretical models.

    28. Re:No cryptography is unbreakable... by Urkki · · Score: 1

      The beauty in cracking OTPs is that you get to decide what the unecrypted message is!

      That also makes it fastest encryption break

      1. You just XOR the desired result with encrypted text. This gives you the OTP.

      2. You XOR the encrypted text with the OTP to do the decryption (see 1. above)

      Tadah! You have the desired text decrypted! And the bast part is, you also have the OTP, so you can decrypt future messages with it too!

    29. Re:No cryptography is unbreakable... by Tom · · Score: 4, Informative

      You can run a brute-force attack against it. But you have no way of knowing that what you decrypt is the actual plain text. Any text of the correct length is a valid plain text.

      Here's a string encrypted with a one-time pad:

      FJERZFTHWRTUWZNE

      Depending on my OTP, it can decrypt to either "SlashdotForever!", or "OneTimePads=Good". Actually, it's neither. It's my credit-card number. If you can decrypt it, it's yours.

      --
      Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
    30. Re:No cryptography is unbreakable... by AgTiger · · Score: 1, Funny

      Until such time as we learn a new method of observing its state such that it is no longer changed by the observance. At that time, our previous assumptions will be proved "not entirely correct".

      The only thing I count on in terms of humanity's knowledge is that we don't know everything yet. Oh, maybe one more thing: We'll try to screw up the act of discovering new things by using the U.S. Patent Office. ;-)

    31. Re:No cryptography is unbreakable... by MrBlint · · Score: 0

      If someone sent another message with the a one time pad then it would not be a one time pad but a two time pad.

      --
      That's very perceptive of you Mr Stapleton and rather unexpected in a G Major
    32. Re:No cryptography is unbreakable... by hashwolf · · Score: 1

      Well.....
      If you can't break the encryption....
      You can always break(as with a hammer) the encryption equipment.

      --
      - "They misunderestimated me."
    33. Re:No cryptography is unbreakable... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      The numbers HAVE to repeat - you've only got two digits to play with! The point is that the SEQUENCE cannot repeat itself. Or otherwise be predicted from earlier parts of the sequence.

    34. Re:No cryptography is unbreakable... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      well, I don't know how OTPs work, but if each of those letters maps to a digit, and cards have certain patterns, like beginning with 5 or something, then it'd be pretty easy, methinks.

    35. Re:No cryptography is unbreakable... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, I know how OTP's work and I can give you a hint: the encrypted text he gave can be decrypted to absolutely any credit card number whatsoever, depending on the secret key. If you don't know the secret key (the pad), you cannot find out the number.

    36. Re:No cryptography is unbreakable... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny
      It's my credit-card number. If you can decrypt it, it's yours.

      LOLOLOOLOLOLOL U SAID 2 MUCH!! I HAEV A MIRCSCRIPT THAT WILL HAX0R U AND TAEK ALL UR MONEY!!!!111

    37. Re:No cryptography is unbreakable... by BaronAaron · · Score: 1

      Good point. If you have no idea what the data is it's very hard to decrypt it. It's like putting together a puzzle without the box cover...

      But ...

      When you know a few facts it can make things easier.

      1. You told us it's a credit card number meaning the data is purley numeric. Assuming you based your encryption off of the ASCII values this mean 48 to 57 is your range. This greatly narrows down any brute force method.

      2. If I happen to know what type of card you have (Visa, Mastercard, etc) then this makes thing easier because all Visa's start with 4 and all Mastercards start with a 50,56,57,58 or 6. Again this helps any brute force method.

      3. Finnally all credit card number have to pass the mod 10 test to be valid. Again helping any brute force method.

      If one was so inclined, I don't think it would be that hard to figure out your credit card number, just by knowing it's a credit card number...

    38. Re:No cryptography is unbreakable... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We need a +1 Troll moderation.

    39. Re:No cryptography is unbreakable... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      No. It's absolutely, completely impossible. Brute force cannot be implemented against it, because any key that decrypts the ciphertext to a valid credit card number is as likely as any other. As you change the key, you'll get perfectly valid decryptions to every possible credit card number.

    40. Re:No cryptography is unbreakable... by aziraphale · · Score: 3, Interesting

      You seem to be under the impression that decrypting a one time pad is just a case of trying different keys and watching the results for output that makes sense. That is laughably incorrect.

      Brute forcing is a method you use to decrypt a known ciphertext using a known algorithm. It involves trying every possible key in the algorithm, and examining what plaintext would result. Given, say, 1024 bits of ciphertext, and a simple symmetric algorithm with a little 56 bit key, you could run the decryption with each of the 2^56 possible keys, giving you 2^56 possible different plaintext renderings of that 1024 bit message. Out of all the possible messages that 1024 bits could communicate (2^1024 of them), we've narrowed down the field to just 2^56 - in other words, we've reduced the field by a factor of 2^968 (that's about a googol cubed). Assuming the message was originally written in in a natural human language, like English, there is a lot of redundancy built in to the message. On average, one character of English communicates 1.4 bits of information - encoded in ASCII, that means you've only got 1.4 bits of actual data encoded in every byte of the original message. So, of the 2^1024 possible messages the ciphertext could encode, only 2^(1024/8*1.4) of them - about 2^179 - contain the right proportions of characters to make any kind of sense in English. But remember, we eliminated 1-(1/googol^3) of the possible messages by examining which messages could possibly be generated by a valid key. So, the odds of more than one of those 2^179 messages making any kind of sense are somewhat less than one in a googol squared.

      But with a one-time-pad as your algorithm, the key is exactly the same length as the message. So, to bruteforce it, your 2^1024 bits of ciphertext has to be decrypted using 2^1024 different one time pads. Again, only 2^179 of the possible decrypts will actually make any kind of sense. But because we've tried 2^1024 different keys, we obtained 2^1024 different candidate plaintexts - which means that 2^179 of them look like they might make sense. In other words, we've got almost a googol different English language plaintexts - all of which could have been encrypted to make the same ciphertext, depending on the one time pad used. It's a little like saying 'A CD is just a stream of numbers. If we burned every possible CD, starting from 0000000..(50 odd million bits)...000001 up to 11111....11111, one of them will contain the next album Hendrix would have made if he'd lived'. It's true, but somewhat useless.

      So, one time pads are, indeed, completely non-brute-forceable.

      They can be cracked if they aren't used correctly or if they aren't generated correctly. Take two messages accidentally encrypted with the same one time pad, and the game's up - both messages will be revealed. If the pad isn't truly random, then the keyfield gets reduced. You only need to reduce the keyfield by a factor of, oo, about 2^179 (well, it'll vary depending on the length of the ciphertext), to start getting to the point where the number of plausible plaintexts generatable from any valid key is small enough to be interesting. If you generate your random numbers with a pseudorandom generator, the key size is effectively reduced to the size of the key used to seed the generator.

    41. Re:No cryptography is unbreakable... by Beryllium+Sphere(tm) · · Score: 1

      True, you can't duplicate a quantum state. If you could, then you could duplicate a particle's state and exactly measure the position of one copy and the momentum of the other. That's how the Heisenberg uncertainty principle applies to duplication.

      The (theoretical) problem is that real equipment today is built around attenuated lasers and really does tend to send bursts of multiple photons through the same polarizer. The theory depends on sending single photons at a time, which is why the promise of controlled single-photon emission from nanotubes is interesting.

      The real problem is the Shamir attack on quantum key exchange (http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=66830&cid=614 0255).

    42. Re:No cryptography is unbreakable... by flonker · · Score: 1

      Yeah, same to you buddy.

    43. Re:No cryptography is unbreakable... by flonker · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I strongly suspect your random number generator is flawed. There is way too much repetition. 12 letters come in pairs, out of a total of 16 letters. 8 out of 16 letters are on the top row of a qwerty keyboard. Also, 5 out of 10 unique letters are on the top row of the keyboard. There are a few other patterns, but I'll leave that as an exercise for the reader.

    44. Re:No cryptography is unbreakable... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      that's about a googol cubed

      Why would you cube a googol when you can say it in plain English?

      Man, you kinky.

    45. Re:No cryptography is unbreakable... by Richy_T · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Do what?

      Everything you have been able to deduce has been based on the statement that the string is an encypted credit card number. Applying these rules to the string would bring you no closer to determining what the number was other than it was a credit card number which is what was stated in the first place

      Heck, you can't even tell if he was lying about it being a credit card number.

      That's the thing about one-time pads.

      Rich

    46. Re:No cryptography is unbreakable... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If one was so inclined, I don't think it would be that hard to figure out your credit card number, just by knowing it's a credit card number...

      Yeah, but with that information you can brute force it just as well without the encrypted string. In fact, exactly as well, since the encrypted string has been mixed with an unknown random sequence, leaving you with no information.

      If we were talking about some form of encryption where there was a pattern to the key (say if it were much shorter than the message and repeated), then you could recover part of the key using the message and use that to decode more of the message. But a OTP has no pattern to it, and is always at least as long as the message. Unless somebody reuses their pad, this is useless.

    47. Re:No cryptography is unbreakable... by Richy_T · · Score: 1
      That's the thing about random number generators. They're unpredictable.

      Rich

    48. Re:No cryptography is unbreakable... by Khlatu_Barada_Nicto · · Score: 0
      It's a little like saying 'A CD is just a stream of numbers. If we burned every possible CD, starting from 0000000..(50 odd million bits)...000001 up to 11111....11111, one of them will contain the next album Hendrix would have made if he'd lived'. It's true, but somewhat useless.

      Now he tells me! I've been burning discs like a bitch, but all I've got to show for it is the shitty solo record the guy from Def Leppard would have made if he hadn't lost his arm. Not discouraged though, I'll probably get 30 Beatles albums done before I've wasted as many discs as AOL.......

    49. Re:No cryptography is unbreakable... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      First, I want to say that as a researcher in the field of quantum information, I am dubious of quantum key distribution's practicality in either the long or the short run.

      That said, most current implementations use laser pulses attenuated so far that A) most (90%) of the pulses are empty (therefore useless) and B) most (again, 90%) of the pulses with >= one photon have only one photon. Then they calculate the maximum information Eve could have gained by intercepting all of the two-photon pulses, and use (classical) privacy amplification (hashing) techniques to reduce that information to some small number (1E-4 bits or so).

      The Shamir attack you cite can be prevented in an exceedingly elegent fashion by using the Eckert protocol, which uses entangled photon pairs to exchange the key. This removes the need for a polarizer (or any other adjustable optics Eve could scatter light off of) and also effectively eliminates the 2-photon pulses that give people with laser systems such headaches. Unfortunately, current entanglement sources produce rather messy beams that are difficult to couple into fibers or transmit over long distances.

      Of course, there will always be the potential for this kind of physical attack that negates the premise the security argument is based on (ie, Alice and Bob are in complete control of their labs), which is one of the reasons I am dubious of the whole thing. Never the less, it is really interesting because quantum key distribution does something that is IMPOSSIBLE with the laws of classical physics alone.

    50. Re:No cryptography is unbreakable... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      The real problem is the Shamir attack on quantum key exchange

      For a more secure key exchange one can use a separate preparation apparatus for each quantum state in the encoding, and multiplex them all together. Then the "backscatter" reveals nothing.

    51. Re:No cryptography is unbreakable... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I've got it:

      5471 8470 0012 9470

      Now what's the expiration date?

    52. Re:No cryptography is unbreakable... by BitterOak · · Score: 1
      You can indirectly "brute force" break a one-time pad, however. It works like this: 1) Intercept the message. 2) Go to the person who sent the message. 3) Beat him repeatedly in pain-sensitive areas until he agrees to give you the one-time pad. 4) Profit? Voila! One-time pad.... broken!

      No. You can't actually crack a one-time pad that way! Why? Because it is possible to create a key which will cause the ciphertext to decrypt to any plaintext you wish! So if you are being tortured you simply hand over a fake key which causes the ciphertext to decrypt to some other plausible message. That is one of the great strengths of the true one-time pad. In jurisdictions such as the UK, where you might be required to turn over keys to law enforcement officers, they have NO WAY of knowing whether or not the key is correct

      --
      If I can be modded down for being a troll, can I be modded up for being an orc, or a balrog?
    53. Re:No cryptography is unbreakable... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you de-encrypt my post with the correct OTP, you'll end up with a message saying how completely wrong you are.

    54. Re:No cryptography is unbreakable... by flonker · · Score: 1

      [x] No Karma Bonus because I'm restating what I thought was obvious.

      That's my point. The numbers seem predictable. I strongly doubt he used a good random number generator. It is possible that he used a good rng, and this happened to be the luck of the draw, but it looks more like keyboard pounding to me.

    55. Re:No cryptography is unbreakable... by nacturation · · Score: 1

      Wow... 20% Troll, 20% Informative, 20% Funny. The mods don't know their arse from a hole in the ground.

      I guess next time I should add a smiley or something? :)

      --
      Want to improve your Karma? Instead of "Post Anonymously", try the "Post Humously" option.
    56. Re:No cryptography is unbreakable... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Use OTP with a poor PRNG and see how "unbreakable" it really is.

    57. Re:No cryptography is unbreakable... by collinl · · Score: 1

      Interesting.
      The first 4 digits can only have a few thousand permissible (i.e. issued) combinations.
      The next 4 digits relate to the type of card (gold, platimum, bog standard, special chacateristics of the bank's charging regime etc)
      8 digits of combinaiton will be limited to those card products issued by banks in your region of domicile
      The last digit is a checksum, so no need to brute force that.
      Only 7 digits to guess. A google search or two to guess your residential area and banks servicing that area, and cardmaster here we come!

    58. Re:No cryptography is unbreakable... by aziraphale · · Score: 1

      a one time pad requires a random pad, by definition. A one time pad with a pseudo-random pad is called a stream cipher, and is only as secure as the prng. As I pointed out in my previous post, in fact.

    59. Re:No cryptography is unbreakable... by Richy_T · · Score: 1
      No, that's my point. You would predict that a randum number generator would be unpredictable. Therefore, by being predictable, it is being unpredictable.


      Toss a coin a hundred times, once in a while it's going to come up all heads.


      Rich

  3. Rumor has it... by nacturation · · Score: 2, Funny

    they discovered this interesting phenomenon while playing with their bucky balls.

    --
    Want to improve your Karma? Instead of "Post Anonymously", try the "Post Humously" option.
    1. Re:Rumor has it... by Stuttgart · · Score: 0

      so that is explaining the little number of woman working in that sphere?

    2. Re:Rumor has it... by nacturation · · Score: 0

      For all the mods with no sense of humor (this used to be +5 Funny and has been modded down in what has become an outlandish waste of mod points), allow me to explain:

      The nanotech carbon structure known as buckminsterfullerene is commonly referred to as bucky balls. This is a story about carbon nanotubes. The joke is an unexpected twist of sexual innuendo which relates buckminsterfullerene molecules to playing with one's scrotum (the "balls" reference, for the dim-witted).

      Thank you. Please return to reading much more deserving drivel on this page.

      [Note to rational mods reading this post: this is either Funny or Interesting, depending on your perspective and humor quotient.]

      --
      Want to improve your Karma? Instead of "Post Anonymously", try the "Post Humously" option.
  4. Before no one can read it: by windex82 · · Score: 5, Informative

    Nanotubes Surprise Again: Ideal Photon Emission

    Sept 5, 2003 -- Carbon nanotubes, recently created cylinders of tightly bonded carbon atoms, have dazzled scientists and engineers with their seemingly endless list of special abilities--from incredible tensile strength to revolutionizing computer chips. In today's issue of Science, two University of Rochester researchers add another feat to the nanotubes' list: ideal photon emission.

    "The emission bandwidth is as narrow as you can get at room temperature," says Lukas Novotny, professor of optics at Rochester and co-author of the study. Such a narrow and steady emission can make such fields as quantum cryptography and single-molecule sensors a practical reality.

    The emission profile came as a surprise to Todd Krauss, assistant professor of chemistry at the University, and Novotny. They had set out to simply define the emission, or fluorescence, of a single carbon nanotube. By using a technique called confocal microscopy, the team illuminated a single nanotube with a strongly focused laser beam. The tube absorbed the light from the laser and then re-emitted light at new frequencies that carried information about the tube's physical characteristics and its surroundings.

    The light emitted from the nanotube was in precise, discrete wavelengths, unlike most objects like molecules that radiate into a broader (i.e. more "fuzzy") range of wavelengths at room temperature.

    But a greater surprise was in store for the team.

    "The emission wasn't just perfectly narrow, it was steady as far as we could measure," says Krauss. In a strange quirk of quantum physics, molecules usually emit their photons for a certain time and then cease, only to resume again later, like a telegraph signal. The tubes that Krauss and Novotny measured, however, remained steady beacons to the limits of their instruments' sensitivity. "This is very exciting because for any application in quantum optics, you want a steady and precise photon emitter," says Novotny.

    Narrow emissions and a complete absence of blinking have tempting implications for single photon emitters--devices needed to dependably release a single photon on command. The U.S. Department of Defense is very interested in developing quantum cryptography, a theoretically unbreakable method of coding information, which necessitates a reliable way to deliver single photons on demand.

    Other applications come in the form of sensors so sensitive they can detect a single molecule of a substance. For example, when a biological molecule such as a protein binds to a nanotube, the nanotube's perfect emission changes, revealing the presence and characteristics of the molecule. Detecting the change would be impossible if it weren't for the remarkably steady nature of the nanotube emission, because a researcher wouldn't know for certain if a sudden change in the emission was just a blink, or was meant to indicate the presence of the target molecule.

    Until just a few months ago, determining the emission characteristics of a nanotube was impossible. Carbon nanotubes cannot be made individually-rather they come as a jumble like a pile of spaghetti. Trying to measure the photon emission of a tube in the jumble is impossible because the tube will pass the photons it absorbs to other tubes instead of re-emitting them in its telltale fashion. What scientists end up with is a sort of average of what the collection of tubes will emit--not the emission characteristics of a single tube. Only within the past few months have researchers figured out how to remove a single nanotube from the pile of spaghetti in order to study its properties as an individual.

    Krauss and Novotny are now devising experiments to test the steadiness of the nanotube fluorescence beyond the range of the initial experiments, and are pursuing studies aimed at determining the ultimate minimum possible emission bandwidth at ultracold temperatures.

    This work was funded by the National Science Foundation, the U.S. Department of Energy, the Research Corporation, and the New York State Office of Science and Academic Research.

    Editor's Note: The original news release can be found here.

    This story has been adapted from a news release issued by University Of Rochester.

    1. Re:Before no one can read it: by windex82 · · Score: 1

      Could someone give a break down on how all this "nano-stuff" is going to actually help me one day? Ive heard talk of self replicating devices to repair things and the like, but that seems a LONG time away. When (and if currently how) are these "nano-anythings" going to help me out in my day to day life? In the hospital? At work?

      Dont get me wrong im not implying that if its not helping me they shouldnt be working on it, id just like to know what and when its going to be usefull.

    2. Re:Before no one can read it: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't you watch Star Trek? Sheesh. After Wesley leaves a few around, they'll get together and try to kill someone. This will be bad. Later, after Voyager gives 7 of 9 back her humanity, she'll show them how to use Borg nanoprobes for all sorts of wonderful, life saving things. This is good. So, wait until then.

    3. Re:Before no one can read it: by forkboy · · Score: 4, Informative

      Well, here's one example...in the article they mentioned that they can do something like detect one molecule of a substance. The implications this has on analytical chemistry are staggering.

      For instance, when your body has certain ailments, it will generate chemicals that are not normally present in the metabolism. These chemicals are often released in VERY small amounts when you exhale. There are prototypes of tests now that can detect the presence of these chemicals at a certain level, but really it is only useful when the ailment is near the chest cavity. (lung / breast cancer) Something that can detect molecules on a "parts per trillion" or even lower range could easily find even smaller trace amounts from illnesses in other parts of the body.

      How does this help you? Imagine knowing that you were ABOUT to get cancer rather than finding out 6 months after it had spread to every major organ in your body. Much easier to treat it that way, and your chances of survival are increased a hundred-fold because of a quick, easy, cheap breath test your doctor could administer.

      Environmental laboratories could detect pollutants on a smaller level, and measure small changes in concentrations, thereby preventing a problem before it occurs. Mercury, for instance, can't be detected by analytical equipment until it reaches concentrations in the "parts per billion" or 1 mercury atom per billion water atoms. (about the size of a mist particle or dew drop) Imagine being able to detect a single drop of mercury in the equivalent of a swimming pool. Doesn't sound like much, but now think of being able to tell that the concentration doubled each month for the last 12 months. It's still way below current detection standards, but you've found now found a trend and have some time to locate the source of contamination.

      Is that a good enough start for ya?

      --
      This message brought to you by the Council of People Who Are Sick of Seeing More People.
    4. Re:Before no one can read it: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative
      Well, here's one example...in the article they mentioned that they can do something like detect one molecule of a substance. The implications this has on analytical chemistry are staggering.

      The article says that one can detect a single molecule, not "identify" it. Detection is saying "Something changed the emission spectrum". Identifying is saying "The emission spectrum changed due to the specific signature of [insert desired molecule]". There's a big difference there, and analytical chemistry requires the "identify" part of it.

    5. Re:Before no one can read it: by windex82 · · Score: 1

      Thanks, Appreciate it =)

    6. Re:Before no one can read it: by BurritoJ · · Score: 1

      What you are saying sounds very good... but have you considered the fact that in order to detect 1 mercury atom in a swimming pool of water you will need to process the whole pool. The chance of finding that one atom in an eye dropper of water is basically nonexistant.

      Joe

    7. Re:Before no one can read it: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Actually, the parent talked about detecting a "drop" of mercury in a swimming pool, not an atom. The drop will spread throughout the pool, with perhaps heavier concentrations towards the bottom, depending upon pool currents.

      Such a detector, ideally, would be part of the pool filtration system.

    8. Re:Before no one can read it: by Insightfill · · Score: 3, Interesting
      Privacy implications are equally staggering.

      Imagine being able to administer a drug test to an employee by simply swabbing the mouse or keyboard after hours. Suddenly, being in the same room as someone who had smoked some pot recently. (A recent famous drug case found cocaine traces on the paper currency in the pockets of many people in the court room - even the judge.)

      Imagine being able to screen people for EVERYTHING as they pass through a "metal" detector at the airport. If you even touch a firearm within a few days of take-off, you'll have residue on your fingers.

      If this can be tuned for genetic testing, then films like GATTACA will be more science and less fiction.

      OK, now I've got to go scrub my hands for an hour.

    9. Re:Before no one can read it: by jafac · · Score: 1, Interesting

      Detecting cancer before it starts is not profitable.

      Allowing patients to get cancer, and subjecting them to millions of dollars worth of surgery, chemicals, and radiation therapy ARE profitable.

      Which solution do you think the big pharmaceutical companies are going to fund research for?

      --

      These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.
    10. Re:Before no one can read it: by efflux · · Score: 1
      A recent famous drug case found cocaine traces on the paper currency in the pockets of many people in the court room - even the judge

      This is really, really stange that they would test this, because it is commonly known that most currency contains traces of cocaine. It is thought that it is usually distributed through a few contaminated bill in contact will other bills in an ATM machine.

      --
      Do I contradict myself? Very well, then I contradict myself, I am large, I contain multitudes. -- Walt Whitman
    11. Re:Before no one can read it: by forkboy · · Score: 1

      Actually, the type of molecule passing through the field will affect the emmission spectrum based upon its molecular / atomic structure. This is the how spectophotometry works. It will take them time to classify each type of compound and its resultant emissions, but it'll work.

      --
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    12. Re:Before no one can read it: by Insightfill · · Score: 1
      This is really, really stange that they would test this, because it is commonly known that most currency contains traces of cocaine.
      Actually, the point is that "commonly known" doesn't come into play often enough in courts. It actually had to be hammered home in study after study before courts stopped using the "dog smelled cocaine in his wallet" test for arrest, RICO seizures, etc. Prior to the "commonly known" point, it was pretty common to use it as evidence in court.

      This Urban Legends article has a good summary on the problem. Specifically, it mentions that courts and police used to use the presence of cocaine on cash as evidence of its ill-gotten past, but have drifted from that view.

    13. Re:Before no one can read it: by dunedan · · Score: 1

      Well, lets say you are big pharmaceutical company A and you know that your big competitor company B is developing pre-cancer screening which will cost millions and make millions.

      If I were company A I would invest in a bit of research. Especially if I knew that detecting cancer early could lead to better preventative or curative drugs which could make BILLIONS

  5. Quantum Cryptography Tutorial by Stuttgart · · Score: 5, Informative

    http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~jford/crypto.html

  6. From Quantum Cheating to Quantum Security by Phoenixhunter · · Score: 5, Informative

    http://www.aip.org/pt/vol-53/iss-11/p22.html

    Mostly a theoretical breakdown of the advantages of quantum encryption, in fairly easy to understand language.

    1. Re:From Quantum Cheating to Quantum Security by A.+Heifets · · Score: 1
  7. Science (05 Sept 2003) Abstract by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    From NCBI.

  8. Re:Science (05 Sept 2003) Text by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    Single-walled carbon nanotubes (SWNTs) are synthesized as mixtures of metallic and semiconducting tubes (1). Their individual structures can be characterized by two integers [(n,m)] that define both their diameter and chirality (2); if (n - m) is not divisible by 3, the nanotubes are semiconducting. Recently, the photoluminescence of SWNT mixtures suspended in surfactant micelles in water was characterized as arising from band-gap fluorescence from semiconducting tubes with different structures (3, 4). Such a spectrum (Fig. 1A) (5) contains overlapping fluorescence features. However, ensemble averaging obscures the true spectral linewidths and the details of the band shape. These optical properties are likely needed for the development of SWNT photonic applications, such as nanometer-scale, integrated electroluminescent devices (6).

    We measured the electronic structure of individual SWNTs using single-molecule photoluminescence spectroscopy. Although the spectra from individual SWNTs with identical diameters were similar, they exhibited a distribution of peak positions and linewidths not observed in ensemble studies of isolated SWNTs (3, 4, 7). Unlike most single molecules (8) or semiconductor nanoparticles (9), the fluorescence for SWNTs does not show any spectral or intensity fluctuations.

    Spatially isolated individual SWNTs were achieved by spin-coating 75 l of the SWNT suspension onto a glass coverslip (5). Fluorescent samples are known to contain short (200 nm long) SWNTs isolated in micelles (3). Thus, we expected the spin-coating procedure to result in single SWNTs well dispersed on a thin surfactant layer. Indeed, atomic force microscopy measurements revealed predominantly short SWNTs (with lengths of 200 to 300 nm) on top of residual surfactant patches a few nanometers thick. Optical characterization of SWNT coverage was achieved through confocal Raman imaging (10, 11) and indicated a density of 10 to 20 Raman-active nanotubes per 100 m2. Laser excitation at 633 nm ensured a spectral isolation of all Raman signals, which occur between 633 and 770 nm, from the fluorescence signals above 850 nm.

    Figure 1B shows three fluorescence images of the same sample area, representing the collected number of photons at every pixel within the spectral windows marked in Fig. 1A. All images show distinct bright spots at different positions, indicating isolated emission sources with different emission energies. Figure 2A displays representative spectra detected at these bright spots for the three wavelength regions marked in Fig. 1. Each spectrum exhibits a single fluorescence band with a smooth line shape. The three spectra have emission maxima at wavelengths of 1016, 955, and 914 nm, respectively, which match three transitions observed in the ensemble spectrum (Fig. 1A).

    Low-energy Raman features that correspond to scattering from the radial breathing mode (RBM) were used to verify that the observed emissions were from individual SWNTs. Raman spectra (Fig. 2B) were detected at identical sample positions (noted in Fig. 2 as 1, 2, and 3) as those used to obtain the fluorescence spectra in Fig. 2A. The frequency of the RBM (, in cm-1) directly reflects the diameter of the SWNT (D, in nm), through = (223.5/D) + 12.5 (4, 12), and can be used to uniquely identify the structural parameters (n,m) (13). For all three sample positions, only one RBM peak (corresponding to the same individual SWNT) was observed within the instrument-limited linewidth of 10 cm-1.

    The observed emission energies and corresponding RBM frequencies are listed in Table 1, along with values obtained from fluorescence of ensemble samples (4). Nanotubes with emission beyond 1030 nm will not be observed with our detector (Si CCD); thus, we can compare single nanotube fluorescence and Raman RBM data sets to ensemble data sets for a subset of all possible nanotube structures (Table 1). The mean measured fluorescence energy for a given SWNT structure (supporting online text), for resonant and nonresonant excitation, matches very

  9. Re:KARMA WHORE!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    word

  10. Quantum is still not fast enough by Aliencow · · Score: 1

    When will they invent something faster than the speed of light ? It's 2:23am and I still can't get a first post because of the latency!

    1. Re:Quantum is still not fast enough by Timesprout · · Score: 1

      They already did. It happened so fast you probably missed it

      --
      Do not try to read the dupe, thats impossible. Instead, only try to realize the truth
      What truth?
      There is no dupe
    2. Re:Quantum is still not fast enough by cryms0n · · Score: 0

      Actually your tachyon equivalent posted it eons ago, but it got removed. :(

  11. Unbreakable, bah by dmiller · · Score: 3, Insightful

    So-called "quantum encryption" may be unbreakable, but it is ignorant to portray it as a competitor to something like RSA. Quantum encrypton is a link-layer technique - something one would use to prevent eavesdropping on a single fibre hop (which is hardly a problem anyway).

    Worse, it is hardly practical for real networks anyway - with routers, repeaters, EBFAs or Raman amps everywhere. If it ever makes it out of the lab, it may be useful for military systems (where money is no object), but it won't help you pirate music anonymously.

    1. Re:Unbreakable, bah by Izago909 · · Score: 2, Informative

      Observing the state of a photon would change it. This makes quantum encryption perfect for evesdropping situations. You will know if someone has seen your data. Also, you can't be sure of it's exact path. The thing about those pesky subatomics is that you can't know their exact position and path at the same time.

    2. Re:Unbreakable, bah by Bronster · · Score: 3, Informative

      Observing the state of a photon would change it. This makes quantum encryption perfect for evesdropping situations. You will know if someone has seen your data. Also, you can't be sure of it's exact path. The thing about those pesky subatomics is that you can't know their exact position and path at the same time.

      Pity anyone can install a sniffer on the router where's it's decoding the packets from one quantum cable and adding them to the next.. ..fine if you can afford end-to-end links with everyone you want to communicate with of course, but not so good if you're switching along the way (as the parent you so cleverly responded to made quite clear, really)

    3. Re:Unbreakable, bah by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's even worse than this: quantum cryptography is just used for key agreement! .. to be uses with the one time pad (which has nothing to do with quantum physics).

      The general understanding of crypto issues is sometimes shocking.

    4. Re:Unbreakable, bah by JKR · · Score: 1
      Just add another wheel to the Enigma machine Hermann. Those dim-witted English shopkeepers vill never figure it out...

      We didn't figure it out; we had to get the Poles to steal one and give it to us. And we relied on pinching code books from captured U boats to crack the naval version of Enigma. As usual, it was human failure (to destroy the code books, to not re-use wheel settings day to day, etc.) that compromised Enigma.

      Jon

    5. Re:Unbreakable, bah by hephro · · Score: 1

      In theory you can build quantum repeaters that cannot be compromised --- either Alice and Bob detect the eavesdropping or the repeater was not tampered with.

    6. Re:Unbreakable, bah by misterpies · · Score: 3, Informative

      That's not quite true; quantum cryptographic signals are not used to exchange messages, but only to guarantee a secure exchange of keys. These keys are then used to generate an unbreakable one-time pad encryption of the message, which can be broadcast publically without fear since only someone holding the key can decrypt it.

      The one-time pad is one of the simplest encryption algorithms there are: you generate a random key as the same length as your message, then add the two together. You end up with something statistically indistinguishable from a random string of bits, which can only be decoded by someone who has the same key. The big drawback of the one-time pad is that somehow you have to get the recipient a copy of the key, which via non-quanum methods (eg a courier) are always open to interception.

      Quantum key exchange uses entanglement to ensure that the sender and recipient can exchange keys, and be sure with arbitrary accuracy that no-one has intercepted the key -- because any attempt to intercept the key leaves a tell-tale sign. So it doesn't exactly prevent someone from stealing the key -- it just prevents them from doing so without you knowing.

      It's true that at present this key exchange can only be done over a fibre-optic network, but there's no fundamental reason why it couldn't be done by other means. For example, when quantum computing becomes practical, it might be possible to use entangled qubits -- you and I could each have a "memory stick" of billions of entangled electron pairs, and when we wanted to exchange a message we'd just use up entangled pairs as needed.

      Moreover because it's a key exchange, it could be possible to set up "key distribution centers", linked by fibre-optic networks. Then when we want to exchange a message, we first head down to our local centre and generate a key. Of course that's slightly less physically secure since maybe you'll be mugged on the way home, but it's stills secure against electronic eavesdropping. Even without such centres, it's obvious that many commercial establishments -- eg banks and stock exchanges -- could set up private fibre networks to guarantee secure data exchange.

      However one shortcoming of current quantum crypto algorithms is that they're only useful for one-to-one communication -- you can't securely ditribute a key to many people. That's probably enough to make it useless for "common" online applications like filesharing -- but how important is truly unbreakable cryptography for that (as opposed to mere unbreakable-within-the-lifetime-of-the-universe) ?

      --
      The author of this post asserts his moral rights.
    7. Re:Unbreakable, bah by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "If it ever makes it out of the lab, it may be useful for military systems (where money is no object)"

      That's what was being said about the Internet 30 years ago.

    8. Re:Unbreakable, bah by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, the poles didn't steal it. They bought a commercial Enigma to find out the principles behind it, and used some heavy-duty analysis to reconstruct the wirings for at least some of the rotors. I don't think they ever nicked one...

    9. Re:Unbreakable, bah by ysachlandil · · Score: 1

      Sir, you are absolutely correct.

      Quantum encryption offers NO protection against man-in-the-middle at all! So people will still need to authenticate themselves using public key encryption. since you have to use public key encryption anyway (hope nobody finds a quick factoring trick ;), why not just use Diffie-Hellman to get a session key???

      I see no advantages in Quantum Encryption at all.

    10. Re:Unbreakable, bah by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Enigma wasn't proven to be unbreakable - it was assumed that because there were too many combinations of keys to check, it couldn't be done.

      On the other hand, it may be possible to prove (properly) that a minimum amount of cypertext is required to crack a key for a given algorithm. Change the key (securely) before the critical mass of data is reached, and you have a provably uncrackable system.

    11. Re:Unbreakable, bah by jkleid · · Score: 1
      For example, when quantum computing becomes practical, it might be possible to use entangled qubits -- you and I could each have a "memory stick" of billions of entangled electron pairs, and when we wanted to exchange a message we'd just use up entangled pairs as needed.
      No need for that. You could accomplish the exact same thing with billions of one-time pad bits, through purely classical means. Even in the quantum case you described, you'd need a corresponding classical message to make sense of the message. So it seems needless to employ quantum technology when you could do the exact same thing classically.
    12. Re:Unbreakable, bah by Rich0 · · Score: 1

      That amount of data must be less than or equal to the key length - you then have an inefficient one-time-pad. And you have to transmit the new keys securely. I believe the system used to exchange keys for symmetric ciphers is basically an asymmentric cipher and is vulnerable to quantum computing.

      If the key is shorter than the plaintext, you can brute force the key at the very least, and only some of the resulting keys will yield a sensible message.

    13. Re:Unbreakable, bah by Rich0 · · Score: 1

      Sounds like BS to me... Unless the key is longer than the message, you can brute force it. Now, the chance of being able to decrypt the data in 10 years might be 10^-5678 - but that isn't zero. The chance of breaking the code given infinite time and resources is always 1 - unless it is a one-time-pad - then it is 0.

      And how are these 1000 keys a second exchanged? Most key-exchange systems are vulnerable to quantum computing - so if you just save the ciphertext and key-exchange transmissions for a decade or two you can probably break the whole stream.

      This Navajo system might be the best system ever invented, but the chance of breaking it isn't zero.

    14. Re:Unbreakable, bah by misterpies · · Score: 1

      >>No need for that. You could accomplish the exact same thing with billions of one-time pad bits, through purely classical means.

      If you had a 100% secure means of getting your pads to each other and making sure no-one copied them in transit or while they were in your posession, that would be true. The point about quantum methods is that they are tamper proof. It's impossible to copy my one-time pad without me knowing. Of course someone could steal it, but having discovered the theft of course I'd tell my correspondent to stop using that pad. In a quantum cryptographic system there's _no way_ to steal the key without being discovered. That's a pure mathematical proof based on the laws of quantum mechanics -- unless we've got the laws wrong, it truly is infallible.

      >>Even in the quantum case you described, you'd need a corresponding classical message to make sense of the message.

      I'm not sure what you mean here. In QC systems, most of the communication is always carried out over classical channels -- during key exchange each participant announces the measurement basis for evaluating their qubits, when the key is ready the message itself is sent classically. That's what makes it relatively practical -- most of the communication is classical. It's a strength, not a weakness.

      --
      The author of this post asserts his moral rights.
    15. Re:Unbreakable, bah by Izago909 · · Score: 1

      True, but the price of equipment involved (for now) would keep this out of the hands of your average hacker.

    16. Re:Unbreakable, bah by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Quantum encryption offers NO protection against man-in-the-middle at all!

      True.

      So people will still need to authenticate themselves using public key encryption.

      Definitely not true: there are many other ways to prevent the man-in-the-middle attack, including some with mathematically provable security. (They are just little used today because public key works so well.)

    17. Re:Unbreakable, bah by Bronster · · Score: 1

      Which is also true of equipment to break RSA, bringing us full circle, and showing that the story description is a crock of shit, and that this isn't going to replace wire any time soon.

  12. New media copy protection is on its way... by uberkuba · · Score: 1

    Hmmm, I bet we will be soon buying Carbon Nano Tube Protected(C) music. It won't play in some CD players, but the discs will be clearly labeled so we, the customers, won't be wasting our money.

  13. Re:GARA - Geeks Against RIAA Amnesty by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Wouldn't that be GARIAAA?

  14. newer isn't better by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    RSA and elliptic curve are able to provide encryption safe from a man in the middle attack, as well as authentication of where a message came from (signing). This is far ahead of what quantum encryption offers.

    The only security quantum encyption has is that the message can only be read by one viewer - this prevents covert surveillance of the message, but not a man in the middle attack, nor a total interception.

    Pragmatically you bundle quantum encryption with other authentication techniques, but RSA on it's own is far more useful and secure than quantum encryption on its own.

    It's not time to throw RSA and Elliptic curve out just yet.

    1. Re:newer isn't better by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't know about elliptic curve cryptography, but RSA is indeed succeptible to man in the middle attack (if the public keys aren't already distributed).

    2. Re:newer isn't better by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, but if you want encryption that is secure from a man in the middle attack, RSA can facilitate it (swap keys in person). Quantum encryption can't.

    3. Re:newer isn't better by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Huh?
      Quantum encryption guarantees that if someone intercepts the message, you know about it. So you send a One-Time-Pad key, and only use it (via a standard, non-secure link) if it wasn't intercepted. It ensures key security, which, if you have enough key, ensures message security in turn.
      OTOH, there are plenty of practicality issues still to solve, and quantum encryption can only be used for a 1-1 link: public-key cryptography isn't possible. Which means that no, we don't throw out RSA et al yet.

  15. Doesn't address the real problem by Mrs.+Grundy · · Score: 4, Insightful
    RSA and Elliptic Curve wouldn't stand a chance against this unbreakable encryption."

    And crackers don't really stand a chance against the algorithms we have now. Although I'm happy to see them inventing cool stuff and cryptography os definitely neat, will this makes us more secure? Sure computers keep getting better and you need to stay ahead of the curve if you are someone like the NSA, but are people the loosing the security game because their 128 bit RSA keys keep getting cracked ? No. They are insecure because they have nanotube-size brains and use their birthday for their password or they leave a laptop with the vice president's agenda at a convenience store.

    1. Re:Doesn't address the real problem by dtfinch · · Score: 1

      128bit RSA isn't secure at all, since the attacks against it perform much better than brute force. 512 bit is more typical. Some use 1024 or 2048, but many see the latter as a bit excessive.

      128bit is secure for most symmetric ciphers, but not public key ciphers.

      Damn, I've gotta change my bank account password again. And some of my other passwords are still blank. It's a matter of work vs risk I guess.

    2. Re:Doesn't address the real problem by ortholattice · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Something like 2048 RSA is for all practical purposes unbreakable, so currently there is no real practical advantage to using quantum cryptography (or more precisely quantum key exchange) for material you want to protect for the next decade or so. The fear is that in the future, when quantum computation becomes feasible, huge numbers will become factorable very quickly, rendering any size RSA useless. In a sense quantum cryptography and quantum computation are "competing" on parallel paths, and it is good that the cryptography path is much further ahead, otherwise cryptographic communication in general would become endangered.

      This is probably the kind of thing the military is worried about for communicating ultrasensitive material that they never want exposed. An eavesdropper could record an RSA transmission that is currently unbreakable, but put it in storage hoping that in a couple of decades they will be able to break the RSA key exchange with a quantum computer. A couple of decades might sound like forever - why would the information still be valuable? - but look at how long top secret documents can take to become declassified. They would want to protect the information at least that long.

    3. Re:Doesn't address the real problem by Rich0 · · Score: 1

      Keep in mind that 1940's atomic bomb experimental results are still highly guarded secrets. Unless we anticipate anybody with a machine shop being able to fabricate nuclear weapons it will probably stay that way for quite a long time. If any of those 1940's documents were transmitted encrypted back then, they'd have been broken already. Hence, when transmitting really important secrets it is important to encrypt your data well, put it on a CD, and put it in a diplomatic bag carried by a guy with a gun under heavy survailence. No cryptography technique should be trusted to keep secrets for more than a few decades - though strong symmetric ciphers probably are safe as far as we know right now.

    4. Re:Doesn't address the real problem by Valar · · Score: 1

      Actually, if you have a good enough machine shop, good knowledge of physics, a lot of computer time and usable fuel if wouldn't be really difficult. Of course, this is the kind of comment that gets you locked away for a long, long time recently...

    5. Re:Doesn't address the real problem by Mikkeles · · Score: 1

      'The fear is that in the future, when quantum computation becomes feasible, huge numbers will become factorable very quickly, rendering any size RSA useless.'

      However, by then the file format will be unreadable, keeping the secrets of the past :^)

      --
      Great minds think alike; fools seldom differ.
    6. Re:Doesn't address the real problem by Enonu · · Score: 1

      As far as I've heard, quantum computing will reduce an applicable problem's complexity to its square root, e.g. something that takes O(n^2) now takes O(n). In other words, your 2048 bit keys will still have a relative 1024-bit strength, which for all intents and purposes is still computationally impossible.

  16. Quantum encryption isn't encryption by Cardbox · · Score: 5, Insightful

    What we normally mean by "encryption" is "the transformation of readable stuff into stuff that can be seen by evil people without them able to understand anything". Encrypted data are a stream of bits just like anything else. Thus you can store your encrypted message on a disk, or write it down, or transmit it over a wire, or broadcast it.

    In this sense "quantum encryption" isn't encryption at all. Quantum encryption is something that can only happen as part of the act of transmission. There is no such thing as "quantum-encrypted data" that can be recorded or written down or transmitted over conventional media. The act of doing any of those things collapses the wave packet and destroys communication just as effectively as interception would.

    I'm not going to argue that we should start calling quantum encryption something else, the name is too snappy and too useful for getting research grants, but let's not get confused into comparing it with public-key or even private-key encryption: they're completely different animals.

    1. Re:Quantum encryption isn't encryption by ph43thon · · Score: 2, Informative

      yah, the more accurate phrase IMO is Quantum Key Exchange. You simply exchange a key and then use whatever encryption algorithm you want.

    2. Re:Quantum encryption isn't encryption by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Amen

      Learned this my self and would prefer that name.

      Also it is a line of sight/ no repeater encryption key exchange.

    3. Re:Quantum encryption isn't encryption by 31415926535897 · · Score: 1

      > comparing it with public-key or even private-key encryption

      When you talk about public-key encryption you usually mean public/private key. I think what you were trying to say was comparing it to public-key and symmetric-key encryption.

  17. A cryptanalysis method by shird · · Score: 1

    RSA and Elliptic Curve wouldn't stand a chance against this unbreakable encryption.

    Huh? Are RSA and Elliptic Curve some method for breaking encryption? Yeah I know what he meant, just worded funny.

    --
    I.O.U One Sig.
  18. I thought... by chendo · · Score: 1

    I thought Elliptic Curve only existed in Uplink until I read this article :p

    --
    Founder of Mirror Moon - Tsukihime Game Trans
  19. Re:GARA - Geeks Against RIAA Amnesty by Tongo · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    GARIAA

    <BR>
    That sounds like some new form of VD or something.

  20. Re:it slices, it dices by demonbug · · Score: 3, Funny
    is ther anything these little wonders can't do?!!


    They kinda suck as straws. Well, they don't really suck, but thats the problem.

  21. Unbreakable, bah by harriet+nyborg · · Score: 1

    According the the Sep. 6th issue of The Economist there is a company in Massachusetts called MagiQin the final stages of testing a system which it plans to release commercially in the next few months.

    "The scheme devised by MagiQ, called Navajo, does not use quantum effects to transmit the secret data. Instead, it is the keys used to encrypt the data that rely on quantum theory. If these keys are changed frequently (up to 1000 times a second in Navajo's case), the risk that an eavesdropper without the key would be able to decrypt the data can be proved mathematically to be zero.

    mathematically unbreakable.

    but we've heard that before.

    "Just add another wheel to the Enigma machine Hermann. Those dim-witted English shopkeepers vill never figure it out... "

  22. RSA and eliptic would crush it! by gessel · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Quantum cryptography is very interesting--an absolutely bizarre manifestation of one of the most spooky and anti-intuitive features of quantum mechanics. The very premise gave Einstein fits.

    But where RSA is used (and, barring an as of yet undiscovered in the open world weakness, elliptic curve cryptography) quantum cryptography has no application.

    Quantum cryptography is built on the quantum entanglement of photon pairs, who's wave function must remain un-collapsed by measurement or perturbation until decode. This feature is both quantum cryptography's strength and weakness:

    It's a strength because any Eve eavesdropping is irrefutably revealed.

    It's a weakness because it limits the applications to such Alices and Bobs where between actual original photons may be reliably transmitted.

    RSA and various other "Newtonian" cryptographic schemes make use of mathematical transforms rather than physical properties of individual particles and survive re-transmission with their essential properties intact; for example, over a packet switched network.

    What RSA may not ultimately stand a chance against are quantum computers, which according to a variation of Moore's law I might have been the first to state (at DEFCON 9), will within a decade surpass then available classical computers and will (in theory) be exceptionally good at cracking encrypted documents.

    Assuming the NSA doesn't already have a good working quantum computer...

    And assuming it's possible to continue adding entangled qubits...

    Anyway, Moores law says the power of classical computers increases as 2^(Y/1.5), where Y is years. So far, roughly, quantum computers are increasing in power as 2^2^(Y/2), which should make em about 10^225 times as powerful as today's classical computers in 2 decades, and if that turns out to be so, then RSA really won't stand a chance. It might be a bummer for some: 4096 bit PGP keys are assumed to be safe against, for example, the combined efforts of all computers to be built according to Moores law between now and any normal lifetime, or at least well past the statute of limitations. But if quantum computer development continues apace, that assumption may be problematically flawed.

    But it's not quantum encryption that's the threat, it's quantum computers. Quantum encryption isn't any more unbreakable than whatever data method underlays it, though it's a fine way to transmit a stream of random numbers. The "key" is that it is, apparently, physics-ally impossible to intercept the stream of photons without causing a measurable effect. So Alice and Bob can be absolutely sure their one time pad is known only to them...

    as long as no one is looking over their shoulders...

    1. Re:RSA and eliptic would crush it! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So that is the ultimate Quantum DoS: Merely attempt to decrypt a quantum encoded datastream, and you perturb it so that it cannot be decrypted at the other end.

      Somehow, this does not sound very secure to me.

    2. Re:RSA and eliptic would crush it! by Nivag353 · · Score: 1

      [...]
      Assuming the NSA doesn't already have a good working quantum computer...

      And assuming it's possible to continue adding entangled qubits...

      Anyway, Moores law says the power of classical computers increases as 2^(Y/1.5), where Y is years. So far, roughly, quantum computers are increasing in power as 2^2^(Y/2), which should make em about 10^225 times as powerful as today's classical computers in 2 decades.
      [...]

      Given that one decade is 10 years, then for 2 decades:
      Y=20
      2^(2^(Y/2)) = 1.8*10^308
      (2^2)^(Y/2) = 10^6

      Not sure how the value of 10^225 was derived for Y=20.

      Hmm... Possible these nano tubes could be used as part of an optical quantum computer to crack encrypted files. Even, if it is not possible to actually intercept quantum transmissions (beyound the first packet).

    3. Re:RSA and eliptic would crush it! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What RSA may not ultimately stand a chance against are quantum computers, which according to a variation of Moore's law I might have been the first to state (at DEFCON 9 [dis.org]), will within a decade surpass then available classical computers and will (in theory) be exceptionally good at cracking encrypted documents.

      It's not a question of speed of a QC. The problem is there is a nice, well known, algorithm for factoring in polynomial time on a QC, while there's no known polynomial algorithm for factoring on classical computers (and maybe there's not any)

    4. Re:RSA and eliptic would crush it! by Rich0 · · Score: 1

      You'd need physical access to the transmission medium. If you just want to DoS it may I suggest wire-cutters as being a somewhat less expensive solution than splicing in a fiber-optic repeater?

      DoSing an encrypted transmission is useful on the battlefield and in situations where short-term denial of communication is useful - otherwise it does little good. The communicating parties will just send a line tech out to inspect the lines.

      Think of ivy bells - where the US tapped the russian underwater telephone cables. Once the Russians found out the US was doing this, they either stopped using the cables, encrypted the transmissions, or started inspecting the cables (or they could have planted mines to be really mean). Note that encrypting the cables would have left them vulnerable to DoS - but the US wasn't about to start cutting russian cables - that would have certainly invited mining.

    5. Re:RSA and eliptic would crush it! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He pulled those numbers and formulas out of his ass. No one sane is suggesting a Moore's law equivalent for quantum computers for the simple reason that we don't have quantum computers. We don't even have "quantum circuits". What we have is a couple of clunky experimental prototypes of "quantum transistors".

    6. Re:RSA and eliptic would crush it! by Nightlight3 · · Score: 1
      quantum computers, which according to a variation of Moore's law I might have been the first to state (at DEFCON 9 [dis.org]), will within a decade surpass then available classical computers and will (in theory) be exceptionally good at cracking encrypted documents.

      There isn't yet (after three decades of futile attempts) a loophole free two photon Bell experiment to prove that the entangled pair distant state collapse exists at all. With the "loophole" (euphemism used by believers, meaning in plain language "it has never really happened") the QC is nothing but a fancy name for analog computing, say, like "computing" sin(t) by performing ultra-precise physical measurement of an amplitude of a harmonic oscillator as it varies with time t.

    7. Re:RSA and eliptic would crush it! by gessel · · Score: 1
      Rounding.

      OK - lame - I just read it off my own graph. Going to 20 years, excel barfs. At 19 years it's 10^224, 225 seems rounder, two decades is less specific than 19 years. I used increments of decades rather than years as an admission of wide tolerance.

      span . . .. 2^(D/.15). 2^(2^(D/.2))
      1 decades . 1.0x10^2 . 4.3x10^9
      2 decades . 1.0x10^4 . 1.8x10^308
      3 decades . 1.0x10^6 . 1.4x10^9864
      And yes, it's a massive IF. Of course. But I think a rather interesting if, as such things go. Thus far QC is on track.
    8. Re:RSA and eliptic would crush it! by Nivag353 · · Score: 1

      It was one of the rare times I found an excuse to use my HP48 calculator. As most times I want to do any vaguely complicated calculations, I'd whip up a quick Java program.

      I suppose all this probably makes me a mathematical pedant (or does it make me a "Precision Nazi"?)! :-)

      I guess I should salute your bravery for admitting to use a Microsoft product...

  23. Great... by mikeg22 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Now we are one step closer to giving people the false impression that they can be idiots with their data because this particular magic bullet (QC) will be completely secure.

  24. How about a new monitor design? by Ignis+Flatus · · Score: 4, Interesting

    All this talk about cryptography sure is sexy, but how about something practical, like a computer monitor with resolution so high you can't even see the pixels? I want a screen that is indistinguishable from a sheet of paper.

    1. Re:How about a new monitor design? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I like chocolate.

    2. Re:How about a new monitor design? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      prefs->new user mod = -6

    3. Re:How about a new monitor design? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They already have those. Problem is, nobody wants to buy them because they are so expensive and they are so expensive because nobody wants to buy them.

      Search Google for high resolution displays, you'll likely find a whole bunch of articles saying that humans read much faster with high resolution displays and that the technology is here, has been here, but nobody is making the investment.

      http://silicon-valley.siggraph.org/text/MeetingN ot es/dpiX.html

    4. Re:How about a new monitor design? by Ztream · · Score: 1

      I want a screen that is indistinguishable from a sheet of paper.
      How about just using a sheet of paper?

  25. Re:it slices, it dices by Linker3000 · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    But can they stop the viagra and enlargement ads?

    Could they be programmed to tunnel through the Internet, seek out and bind to the sender in a way that makes them instantly the most attractive object to, say, any and all lightning discharges within a 1000 mile radius - it would look kinda like Neo when he took the red pill and then looked in the mirror.

    Bwahahahaha

    --
    AT&ROFLMAO
  26. Be afraid, be very afraid by flopsy+mopsalon · · Score: 3, Funny

    Back when high-bit encryption was becoming popular, there was a great effort on the part of the government to control its use, especially the "export" of encryption technology.

    With the advent of unbreakable quantum encryption, we are clearly in for more of the same. If you think the line at the arirport is long now, just wait until security starts searching people for nanotubes. Me, I'm seriously considering driving everywhere.

  27. Oh yeah..... by ssimpson · · Score: 3, Interesting

    RSA and Elliptic Curve wouldn't stand a chance against this unbreakable encryption

    Oh yeah, that cheap and easy cryptography technology that can be performed on a CPU in a wristwatch or smartcard and be can used for encryption, signing, PKI infrastructure, n of m schemes etc will be instantly replaced by a system that's only good to transmit bits with a guarantee that the recipient will be able to detect if someone else is reading the traffic. Yawn.

    --
    "Mary had a crypto key, she kept it in escrow, and everything that Mary said, the Feds were sure to know."
    1. Re:Oh yeah..... by Morosoph · · Score: 1
      Oh yeah, that cheap and easy cryptography technology that can be performed on a CPU in a wristwatch or smartcard and be can used for encryption, signing, PKI infrastructure, n of m schemes etc will be instantly replaced by a system that's only good to transmit bits with a guarantee that the recipient will be able to detect if someone else is reading the traffic. Yawn.
      Not quite true: if you don't know the polorizations of the photons coming through, you can't read it!
    2. Re:Oh yeah..... by euxneks · · Score: 1

      a system that's only good to transmit bits with a guarantee that the recipient will be able to detect if someone else is reading the traffic.

      It's more than that. If the person snooping on the flow of photons "views" the stream, they will completely destroy any information that may be passing through the system. Not only that, but there is no chance of the malicious user guessing the correct viewing angles for the photons, and therefore is completely secure. When quantum computing comes, and it eventually will, it will take seconds for a quantum computer to break traditional encryption techniques, making RSA completely useless. Quantum cryptography, however, cannot be broken by any computation and will be destroyed once the user views the photon "stream". It's really an exciting thing!

      --
      in girum imus nocte et consumimur igni
  28. Re:it slices, it dices by popeyethesailor · · Score: 1

    Straws dont suck. people do.

  29. what's a quantum computer? by Sivaram_Velauthapill · · Score: 1

    what's a quantum computer?

    Thanks!

    Sivaram Velauthapillai

    --
    Sivaram Velauthapillai
    Seeking the meaning of life... @slashdot of all places ;)
    1. Re:what's a quantum computer? by Chatterton · · Score: 1

      A quantum computer is a computer who use the quantum physic has his logic. This logic has the 'advantage' to have multiple states in the same time like have a bit at the 1 and 0 state in the same time :) A completly new kind of programming paradigm :)

    2. Re:what's a quantum computer? by Misanthropic+Lycanth · · Score: 1

      Some other cool things about quantum computers:

      If everything is kept nice and unary, every computation is fully reversable (this is not so with classical gates such as OR). One of the implications is that a quantum processor (theoretically) could operate without doing work (generating heat).

      --

      Physics: Making the universe open source.
    3. Re:what's a quantum computer? by Sivaram_Velauthapill · · Score: 1

      Thanks for the responses (both of you: Chatteron and the person who responded below that) :)

      I guess I need to do some research on my own. What you have said doesn't really help much.... because there must be more to it than just having new states. People have proposed computers with more than two states in the past. In fact, a three state machine using modern technology (ie. transistors) never took off because the advantages weren't that great.

      So... what are you guys hiding from me? ;) There must be more to the quantum computer than having more than 2 states.

      Sivaram Velauthapillai

      --
      Sivaram Velauthapillai
      Seeking the meaning of life... @slashdot of all places ;)
    4. Re:what's a quantum computer? by zCyl · · Score: 1

      What you have said doesn't really help much.... because there must be more to it than just having new states. People have proposed computers with more than two states in the past.

      A quantum computer is completely different than a classical computer with more than 2 states. When people say a quantum computer can have multiple states, they are also implying freaky properties called "superposition" and "entanglement".

      The example I usually use, which is not a particularly useful calculation on a quantum computer, is the following. Say you take two quantum bytes, each of which has a superposition of all possible values from 0-255, multiply them together, and store the result in a third byte. Now the third byte simultaneously contains the results of all possible multiplications of numbers from 0-255 with numbers from 0-255. As soon as you look at the third byte to see what the answer is, it collapses into a single answer, randomly chosen from the possible answers. Let's say this time it collapses into the answer 12.

      Where it gets interesting, is that because the answer collapsed into 12, the first two bytes also collapsed, just because we looked at the third one. The first two bytes now only contain pairs of numbers which can multiply to produce 12:

      1, 12
      2, 6
      3, 4
      4, 3
      6, 2
      12, 1

      Take unusual behavior like this where operations can be performed on entangled states, add some clever mathematicians, and the end result is that we get some algorithms that compute things in polynomial time that are believed to only be computable in exponential time on a classical computer.

      The only problem, is that it's rather difficult to actually build a quantum computer, and there's a lot of work to be done before a useful sized one is built anywhere.

  30. Individual Photons by Slur · · Score: 1
    It's a weakness because it limits the applications to such Alices and Bobs where between actual original photons may be reliably transmitted.

    There is some reason to suspect that quantum states are transmissible from one photon to the next ad infinitum. (Don't forget that all forms of data transmission involve direct physical linkage, even in the form of waves.) I would not rule out the ability of future quantum computers to be able to suss out such subtle states by the use of markers in data. Given the metaphysical interconnectedness of all matter / energy it would be fairly impossible to prevent "leakage" from occurring. But generally speaking, outside of a given quantum communication system information will be quickly obscured by the background noise of the physical universe. Still, as quantum snooping computers evolve more sophisticated forms of quantum encryption will become necessary.

    Of course this sense comes from a very crude understanding of quantum mechanics, so feel free to deride my Star Trek-ish scientific sensibilities.
    --
    -- thinkyhead software and media
  31. Re:it slices, it dices by chiddiscokid · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    they make lousy spel chekers

  32. Quantum Crypto vs. Quantum Computing by billstewart · · Score: 4, Informative
    Sigh. People keep mixing up the two areas, just because they're both related to deep magic stuff :-)

    Quantum cryptography is a method for using quantum physics to make sure nobody reads your bits. Technically cool, but seldom practical. If you happen to have direct fibers connecting you with the people you want to talk to, it might be useful, though it's probably more useful and certainly cheaper to just run Gigabit Ethernet and use conventional encryption, such as AES.

    Quantum computing is a totally different animal. It uses Quantum Black Magic to create a computer which can collapse a waveform and have it land at the solution of some classes of NP or similarly problems with at least some significant probability of success, thereby cheating on the fact that it normally takes an exponential or at least superpolynomial number of guesses to find a correct answer. One problem that can theoretically be solved if you have a quantum computer of sufficient resolution is factoring - which means that if such a device were developed, it would break RSA and several other public-key algorithms, whose strength depends on them being exponentially hard if you don't have the key and low-order polynomially hard if you have it. For some other classes of algorithms, it doesn't totally break them, but reduces their strength to half the number of bits, i.e. square-root as hard as before, so you'd need to use twice as many key bits. For algorithms like Elliptic Curve, it's not clear whether they'd be broken, but they'd be a lot more dodgy.

    The implications of breaking them are that right now, public key lets you build a lot of very useful communication models. It's hard to replicate signatures without PK, but the privacy applications could be replaced by going back to the old Key Distribution Center models, e.g. Kerberos, which are much less socially powerful.

    Building a useful quantum computer requires building something that can detect states with sufficient precision. We currently have the technology to make simple quantum computers (one famous one was able to factor the number 15 into 3x5) but nobody knows how to get high precision yet. One question I don't know is whether a QC would be limited by the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle (i.e. you've got one variable with a resolution that's never better than Planck's Constant, about 10**-47, which is slightly annoying cryptographically but not fatal because you can use longer keys), or whether it can be built by coupling together a number of units, each of which only needs enough precision to get N bits of the output and you get longer numbers of bits by using more units (that would be much more annoying.) We're nowhere near this yet, but it's the one technology that doesn't run into the typical exponential cryptography "brain the size size of the planet of a planet waiting for the Restaurant at the End of the Universe and still don't have an answer, I'm so depressed" kind of limits that we can easily create otherwise.

    --

    Bill Stewart
    New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
  33. Unbreakable, bah by harriet+nyborg · · Score: 1
    As usual, it was human failure (to destroy the code books, to not re-use wheel settings day to day, etc.) that compromised Enigma.

    Exactly. The mathematical analysis performed by Enigma's designers did not include variables for the number of times the secret codebook would be stolen by the enemy, the number of daily communications reporting more or less the same thing (weather conditions) which make the task of finding embedded patterns possible - and sometimes easy. They did not they consider the constuction of the Bombes...

    Most of all, the designers (and users) of Enigma underestimated the capabilities of their enemies because they did not know what they were capable of.

    My point was that the clever way in which quantum crypto WILL be cracked have not been conceived yet so it seems to me impossible - based on today's understanding of the problem - to perform a valid mathematical analysis.

    Not all of the variables are known. Or as Donald Rumsfeld so eloquently said it:

    The Unknown
    As we know,
    There are known knowns.
    There are things we know we know.
    We also know
    There are known unknowns.
    That is to say
    We know there are some things
    We do not know.
    But there are also unknown unknowns,
    The ones we don't know
    We don't know.

    --Donald Rumsfeld, Feb. 12, 2002, Department of Defense news briefing

  34. Regulation by Casshan-Robot+Hunter · · Score: 0

    My $.02
    All this cryptography sounds cool and all, but will we even get to play with it? I mean, at first good ole Uncle Sammy had fits about the common man having high encryption, and it is still illegal to export it. With encryption as good as this quantum, would Uncle Sam even let us use it? I mean, if it really were unbreakable, then the UnPatriot act would be kinda limp...

    --
    Why oh why didn't I take the purple pill?
    1. Re:Regulation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Easy solution: Move to Europe, Canada, Japan, India or any other part of the world that does not have a paranoid control-freak government.

  35. Just Wondering by Joel+Carr · · Score: 1

    While we're on the topic of cryptography and RSA and stuff, does anybody know what happened to 'Operation Project X'?
    http://www.operationprojectx.com/

    They were attempting to factorize the xbox public key to break the RSA encryption used. I can only guess they were closed down...

    ---

    --
    Any man who can drive safely while kissing a pretty girl is simply not giving the kiss the attention it deserves. -- AE
    1. Re:Just Wondering by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      they had a sudden flash of reason, stopped their project, and then started up on building a time machine

  36. pile of spaghetti by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Only within the past few months have researchers figured out how to remove a single nanotube from the pile of spaghetti...

    Maybe they should start eating their lunch outside of the lab.

    Man, talk about a needle in a haystack!

  37. single photons? by hephro · · Score: 2, Interesting
    I thought you needed single photon sources for the well-known quantum-cryptography protocols... AFAIK, the "photon splitting attacks" are among the weakest points in current implementations and good single photon sources are a hot research area...

    Can anybody comment on whether this new result applies to generating single photons?

  38. I wonder why... by imsabbel · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Noone has ever created a One time Pad plugin for outlook.

    Think about it. Create a random one time Pad of a few hundred MB. Burn it on 2 cd-r. Put one in your safe and hand the other to BOB in person.

    Now just use the pad piece by piece for your secure transmissions. It should last for years if you dont sent porn or warez....

    As long as you use every part of the pad only once, even if the attacker gets the plaintext of one message the others wont be compromised.

    --
    HI O WISE PRINCE. WHT TOOK U SO DAM LONG?
    1. Re:I wonder why... by vadim_t · · Score: 1

      Well, I have created a OTP chat, actually, in VB. I'm thinking of putting a sourceforge page for it, and if there's interest, make a Linux version too.

      I've also used it the way it's meant to be (burned 32MB of /dev/random on CD and sent it to a person in another country). We used it to talk a little, too.

      If anybody is interested in such a thing please reply to this message, and I will release it in a few days.

    2. Re:I wonder why... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Technically, /dev/random isn't likely to be a valid OTP. It's generated using some algorithm, which means that in theory the sequence could be predicted.

      I didn't say it was easy...

    3. Re:I wonder why... by vadim_t · · Score: 1

      That's /dev/urandom. /dev/random is seeded by random events like key presses, mouse movements, disk and network events. My motherboard has also a random number generator supported by Linux, which I suppose is used for /dev/random.

    4. Re:I wonder why... by vadim_t · · Score: 1

      Okay, good to know that there's interest :-)

      Look for a project called "OTP Chat" or something similar, released by vadim_t in a few days. I want to clean it up before releasing it, so it might take a day or two.

      Currently, the interface looks a lot like Unix talk. It sends text as you type it, too.

    5. Re:I wonder why... by moz13 · · Score: 0

      If you really want security, you would also need the computers encrypting to have been Tempest secured. You would be amazed what people can find out by listening to radiation given off by those little transistors in your computer.

    6. Re:I wonder why... by imsabbel · · Score: 1

      I know, i know. I spend my year in the army at a long range listening post.

      I think of this as a protection against ECHELON.
      If THEY want YOU, they can always break in your home, install keyloggers or wiretaps, ect. But if they are just scanning the email traffic in the backbone for keywords, it would be of real help.
      Im VERY certain every PGP or similar encrypted email will be archvied because it is potentially interesting. And perhaps in 5 year with their new Quantum Cracker, the NSA will decide to scan their archives...

      --
      HI O WISE PRINCE. WHT TOOK U SO DAM LONG?
  39. A break from photon particles one moment... by MaxHex · · Score: 1

    This technology looks to be to expensive today and in the future days for any of your wallets. Here is my solution to getting true randonm numbers. Get pre-schoolers to work their majic with assorted high grit crayons on gloss paper in predefined boxed sections. Then use a scanning microscope to probe the abnormal surfaces with precise nano depth rendering feedback to a commodore 64.

    --
    AceiI
  40. Re:it slices, it dices by hplasm · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    Wait till they start putting them in shampoo and ati-wrinkle cream.

    --
    ...and he grinned, like a fox eating shit out of a wire brush.
  41. Re:it slices, it dices by hashwolf · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    I still haven't managed to get a date by using nanotubes.
    Way to go, nanotubes.

    --
    - "They misunderestimated me."
  42. Wouldn't quantum computers break it ? by master_p · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I am wondering what will happen with security everywhere when quantum computers step into every day life. Classic methods like RSA will be solved in a minute. What about quantum cryptography ? does it stand a chance against quantum computers ? and what will be the effect on society, if nothing can be encrypted any more ?

    1. Re:Wouldn't quantum computers break it ? by TheRealFoxFire · · Score: 1

      Quantum cryptography is not an encryption algorithm per-se. In fact, its a means of transmitting bits using quatum entanglement that guarantees on a physical level that an evesdropper cannot tap into those bits without changing them.

      The result is a perfectly secure method of exchanging secrets... keys for example.

    2. Re:Wouldn't quantum computers break it ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Quantum Cryptography provides a way to achieve key agreement providing unconditional security. Because this security is information theoretical, it also means that it holds even for an adversary with unlimited power. Even for a quantum computer.

    3. Re:Wouldn't quantum computers break it ? by pclminion · · Score: 2, Informative
      No. The term "quantum cryptography" is grossly misleading. QC doesn't encrypt anything -- it encodes the message in such a way that any eavesdropper will be detected, period. It is impossible to sniff a quantum channel without being detected.

      That doesn't mean you don't need a traditional cryptosystem on top of it. An attacker could compromise the receiving end of the line and read the message without detection. You still need crypto to protect against this.

      Can a quantum computer defeat quantum "cryptography?" No. QC is based on the "no cloning" theorem in quantum mechanics: it is physically impossible to precisely clone a quantum state, without destroying that quantum state. No trickery will ever get around that fact.

  43. huh? by cygnus · · Score: 2, Funny
    RSA and Elliptic Curve wouldn't stand a chance against this unbreakable encryption.
    huh? do the different encryption algorithms get together and fight periodically?

    i don't know if you know this, but that's not how encryption works... :)

    --
    Just raise the taxes on crack.
  44. Quantum nonsense by gr8_phk · · Score: 1
    "And assuming it's possible to continue adding entangled qubits...

    That's a really big ASSumption.

    Don't forget the other ASSumption, that you can maintain the quantum states long enough to do useful computations with them. OK, perhaps some day, but not in 10 years.

  45. Light speed's too slow! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    We'll have to go right to...

    ludicrous speed!

  46. "Buzzword Bingo!!" by Insightfill · · Score: 1
    Excellent! I get "Quantum," "Cryptography," and "Nanotube".

    All I need now is "String Theory" and I win!

  47. Rubber-hose cryptanalysis by another_henry · · Score: 1
    Incorrect: even a one time pad is vulnerable to rubber-hose cryptanalysis. From the Jargon File:

    The technique of breaking a code or cipher by finding someone who has the key and applying a rubber hose vigorously and repeatedly to the soles of that luckless person's feet until the key is discovered. Shorthand for any method of coercion: the originator of the term drily noted that it ?can take a surprisingly short time and is quite computationally inexpensive? relative to other cryptanalysis methods.
    A related technique is the purchase-key attack.
    --
    "Studies have shown that people who eat peanuts live longer than those who do not eat."
    1. Re:Rubber-hose cryptanalysis by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      For protection, a seperate, bogus OTP could be handed over to the aggressor. When they unencrypt the data with the bogus OTP, they get (for example) completely valid plain-text data that looks correct but is nothing like the original text.

  48. The irrational number defense by dmatos · · Score: 1

    How about a non-terminating, non repeating decimal expansion of a number? Pi? sqrt(2)? The square root of 2, in particular, has been shown to be an irrational number. This means that it cannot be written as the form m/n, where m and n are integers.

    This means that it can't be repeating (0.454545... = 45/99) and it can't terminate (0.3453 = 3453/10000). This was proved back in pythagorean times (second yellow box as you scroll down the page).

    Note that most square roots, cube roots, 4th roots, etc are going to be irrational. Is that a big enough choice of random OTPs for you? Say only a tiny fraction of numbers are irrational. A tiny fraction of an Aleph-one infinite numbers is still infinite. (See degrees of infinity, about halfway down the page).

    --

    It may look like I'm doing nothing, but I'm actively waiting for my problems to go away.
    --Scott Adams
    1. Re:The irrational number defense by tiled_rainbows · · Score: 1

      Yeah, that's all true. Maybe I misunderstood what the original poster meant by "repetition".

      What I meant was that repetition of any particular string of digits, eg 228634254 or whatever, is inevitable in any truly random sequence if you keep churning out the numbers long enough. In fact, if your evesdropper knew that you were filtering out such repetitions, then he could use this redundancy in the keystream to have a go at brute-forcing the pad.

      I read somewhere that this is one of the reasons it's hard to produce random numbers. If you just get someone to write down a "random" string of digits, then, no matter how hard they try, they are going to subconsciously avoid repetitions, chance patterns, etc, and thus it will not be random.

      Having said all the above, the exact nature of randomness is still something I don't quite understand. I mean, I know the pop-science definition, maximum entropy, minimum information, yadda yadda yadda, but how, in real life, does one test for this, given that any string of numbers possible could, theoretically, have been produced by a random process?

  49. Re:GARA - Geeks Against RIAA Amnesty by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Kind of.. rolls off the tongue, doesn't it? Just imagine System of a Down saying it: "Ga-rye-ahahah!"

  50. go UR! by natedubbya · · Score: 1

    That's my school! You go boiii!

  51. Key size? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0


    Moore's law says that computers get faster exponentially (2^(Y/1.5)). That's bad news in the long run for any theoretically breakable scheme. The only answer for today's technologies is to be continually increasing the key size to keep up with Moore's law.

    And another thing: If we're at all worried about the NSA being able to break our commonly-used encryption methods, then shouldn't we be using significantly higher key sizes right now?

    What key size would convince the experts that the NSA would not be able to break encryption at today's computer speeds? 512 bits? 2K bits? What is preventing us from embracing those larger key sizes for applications that are not as performance critical (such as email)?

  52. Not entirely monkies flying by gessel · · Score: 1

    The poster is, in the main, correct in his ASSertation, but there are underlying justifications to the extraction:

    First, classical computers may, to a crude degree, be considered "powerful" as a function of their clock speed and complexity. Roughly this power has been increasing at an exponential rate according to "Moore's Law."

    Quantum computers are entirely different in a way that matters for certain classes of problems, particularly sorting and testing. These classes of problems are well suited, for example, to "brute force" breaking encryption. A quantum computer's "power" in solving this class of problem increases to the power of the number of "entangled cubits", a number which has roughly doubled every two years as compared to Moore's 18 month period - and to classical computing's roughly linear increase in power with complexity.

    Moore's "law" isn't a law at all, but has been useful in predicting computational power. This reformulation I propose is valid in hindsight over a trivially short observation period. It does seem like a useful exercise to think about the potentials of quantum computers and to make a "what if" sort of assessment of the future of computing.

    The statement that only a few quantum transistors have thus far been assembled, is not entirely true. First, the computational structures of quantum computers and classical computers are not precisely analogous, second quantum computers have been used to perform calculations according to prediction in organized structures more complex than an equivalent "transistor."

    http://arxiv.org/abs/quant-ph/9801037

  53. Not so fast by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Unbreakable? Don't be so sure of yourself, Mr. Titanic. I guarantee that this encryption method, like any other, will be "broken" in time. It may not be cracked in the way you're thinking of, but mark the words of the great AC, it will be broken.

  54. And people will still by BigGar' · · Score: 2, Funny

    tape their passwords to their monitors.

    --


    Shop smart, Shop S-Mart.
  55. Famous last words by double-oh+three · · Score: 0

    -this unbreakable encryption. It'll be unbreakable until microsoft gets it's hands on it and creates a bug that lets you break it in five minutes. Or until we get quantum decryption.

    --
    "For years, I struggled with reality... but I'm happy to say I finally won out over it." -- Elwood P. Dowd