Slashdot Mirror
Echolocation for Humans
anoopsinha writes "An article in New Scientist reports that bat echos can be used as virtual reality guide. People wearing headphones could easily hunt down a 'virtual insect', using only the echolocation sounds. The report says that it is a 'very intuitive process.' The researchers behind the project hope that a similar system in the cockpit of fighter planes could allow pilots to track some controls using their hearing, freeing up their eyes for other tasks."
When you drive, you can't look at the speedometer and the road at the same time,
That's what I tried to tell him...
The coolest voice ever.
We did some experiments with this in cognitive theory class, and it was really, really bizarre.
I heard about something on a TV show a few years ago. It talked about some guy who was training deaf people to "echolocate" using clicks. Supposedly, they were able to walk, tell the diff between walls and shrubs, and even skateboard. Does anyone know about this?
"73% of quotes on the Internet are made up" -Ben Franklin
Can someone explain to me what the article is trying to say? I know that we developed eyesight to see the world around us and bats developed ultrasonic sound and ears to percieve it. But, how is becoming "batman" going to help improve our situation?
New year Resolution: Don't change sig this year
and they still havent helped me pick up the perfect who-likes-short-shorts bat woman.
Maybe I missed something, but can't this be used to help the blind navigate around their homes or even outdoors? It's the first thing I would think of rather than fighter pilots.
I remember some 5 or 6 years ago I saw a story on some daytime talk show about people overcoming their disabilities; not that it's all that unusual, but one guest in particular who has been blind since birth, actually used echolocation to get around. He made regular clicking sounds with his tounge and he could navigate down a city street without any real assistance. It was actually quite amazing. Although, I don't know any blind fighter pilots but the principal is sound. Humans do have echolocation abilities, it would just take a long time time to develop any natural ability.
Holy smoke! The penguin thinks he can escape us into that smokescreen! Quick, Robin, give me the bat-sonar-headphones!
What you hear in Star Wars isn't sound in space, it's echolocation technology.
Though you'd have to neutralize for relatively high velocity, and map to a different signal entirely (probably radio), before converting into sound... Doppler would tell you relative speed, and you would need some sort of tracking system (headset/goggles + sensors?) to locate your ears...
GPL Deconstructed
So you mean all this time I've been getting banned from game servers for using mods to see everyone, it was a power all humans can develop?! Unfair!
SAILING MISHAP
David Dunn's Angels and Insects, although not a study of audio based VR (or even featuring bat sounds for that matter), is a great place to get started listening to microscopic sounds.
Here's an MP3 of some insects in Africa getting it on.
If you think this stuff sounds like fun you might want to do what I did a few years ago and pick up a high quality microphone with a big diaphragm, such as an AKG C414, and get out into the woods at night and make some recordings. You'll be surprised what's out there when you start filtering out the sounds humans make and crank the volume!!
I bet I could get a blind-deaf person to navigate using only taste! Strap two solar cells to their forehead and run the wires to opposite sides of their tongue! Hey, it's only 1-pixel stereo vision, but better than nothing.
...
WWAAAAY back in quake2 I could track exactly where my opponents were on a map, as long as I was wearing headphones. The headphones were necessary to get the stereoimaging right, as speakers can be a bit difficult to set up. So how is this at all suprising?
For as long as I can remember, I've been able to echolocate people moving around me while I'm near a CRT -- especially when I'm sitting at a computer. I can...shall we say, "feel" the movements of people behind me. (It's a spatial sense. Not sure how else to describe it.) It's not as if I can tell what they're doing with their hands or anything detailed like that (you know, dodging projectiles and such), but I'm aware of their general position.
So now, of course, my primary machine has an LCD. No more echolocation. (Luckily, it's a laptop, so I can keep my back to the wall.) I don't have the 15.7 KHz whine of an electron tube to bounce off things around me. Ye gods, that infernal CRT whine...most people can't hear it, but it drives me bats.
Oh dear. In all honesty, I wasn't trying to pun.
just make sure you don't get accused of wallhacking and then banned from life...
Damn, this is the coolest thing I've read in a long time! Imagine having a second set of low grade eye that worked in the dark. You could do all sorts of cool things with it, like effectively having a set of eyes on the back of your head.
The article mentions one potential application being that you could look at dials and switces without taking your eyes off what you were doing. However, would shifting your attention to echo location be as bad as looking away would? Think cell phones. It's kind of like chameleons - they can point their eyes in different directions, but can they concentrate on both of them at the same time? Could humans gain the ability to concentrate on more than one sensory input at a time? Probably not, but the input would still be there and would catch our attention anytime something notable happened. Like when we see something out of the corner of our eye, or hear our name in a crowd. Cognetics is so cool.
It also talked about how bats adjust the frequency of the waves sent out, as the distance to the object changes. I imagine for a bat this would be as automatic as focusing our eyes is to us. We would have to do this manualy, like focusing a camera. Oh, but what if we interfaced the brain or some nerves and trained the mind to do the focusing!
I've always thought that if I were to loose a limb in an accident I would be pounding down doors at universities acrossed the country to find one willing to attempt to use the nerves once controlling my limb to instead control a keyboard/mouse type interface (which would comunicate to the PC via bluetooth eventually). But this is even cooler, and I imagine provided a little information from Dean waters on this, you could build something like this on your own. Hot damn, I have a new project!
Or imagine a radar system encoding direction, distance and speed of a target into some surround sound system...
To me, especially the threat warning system looks interesting, because you can hear something even if it's behind you, while your eyes only see stuff in front of you. Imagine, the advantage if you can hear at once that that radar site that just started chirping seems to be in the direction of the depression in the ridge you just passed so you can do something about it, or the fighter radar that just started chirping is at your 6 o'clock - that guy is in a bad position... wait, now he's switched from search to attack mode - now you're in trouble... ;-]
Or if you could hear the drone of your wingman - you'd definitely hear if he gets out of position...
Cheers, Ulli
Simple things should be simple, complex things should be possible.
As anyone with bad hearing in one ear (like me) will attest, stereo location using sound is a very weak sense. Having worked with stereoscopic 3D images for many years, I have found that about 10-20% of all people have vision problems in one eye that are just bad enough that they can't see the stereographic effect. I expect that similarly, there are enough people with weak hearing in one ear, enough to prevent a similarly large group from using audio stereolocation.
I've been doing this for ages - there is a hallway at work where the light switch is at the far end of the hall.. in winter, the hall is completely dark after 4PM or so.
:o) so I don't need to make 'extra' sounds..
making clicks with your tongue or other brief sounds
Actually, I just use my footfalls - I've got extremely sensitive hearing (I always know where our cat is because I can hear his footfalls on the carpet - which freaked out my wife for the first few years
this probably only works if there is only one "clicker" in the area. Otherwise you'd get your echoes confused with the others, with embarassing results. Also, there must be some relatively low velocity limit, since your interpretation of the echo likely depends on (your knowledge of) the origination point of the audio source. I bet parking meters and telephone poles are quite stealthy against this technology. Rather than trying to navigate yourself down a straight hallway alone, try blindfolding a bunch of people and get them to echolocate around a circle - better than twister!
Sure, no problem.
The researchers behind the project hope that a similar system in the cockpit of fighter planes could allow pilots to track some controls using their hearing, freeing up their eyes for other tasks.
Modern Science, innovating new ways of killing our fellow man more effectively!
I also saw something on using echolocation with blind people a while back, according to the story, it doesn't take long for users to adapt. Saying that, Blind people have very sensitive hearing anyway.
kill elrond
take elrond
put elrond in cupboard
but.. tihs is aonhter ltitle kwon slkil
Aoccdrnig to a rscheearch at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it deosn't mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny iprmoetnt tihng is taht the frist and lsat ltteer be at the rghit pclae. The rset can be a total mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit porbelm. Tihs is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe.
bite my glorious golden ass.
This was actually used in the show Babylon 5. If I am remembering the posts online by the exec. producer and main writer, JMS, he said that they wanted to use sound effects for space battles but also wanted to be accurate to the reality of space where there shouldn't be any sound.
So the technique they used was to describe the sound effects as assistive to the pilots like full surround sound in video games to give a viceral sense the position of the other things around. They maybe explained that a total of once of twice on the series itself, but the idea stuck with me as a very good idea even in the relatively normal environment of todays fighter jets or even for situational awareness in cars on the highway.
Is this the end yet?...How 'bout now...how 'bout now...how 'bout now?
Surprisingly this, too, has been done , albeit in a slightly more complex form.
Ewige Blumenkraft.
Not really. You're thinking in terms of radar, where azimuth and range are determined by matching a single ping with a single pong. In such systems, multiple sources or multiple path replies are a source of confusion since they add too much information to the process. If you're trying to paint a sonic landscape, however, you don't want to try and associate a single ping and pong since that would only identify the range to a single reflector in one small portion of your area of interest. Instead, you want to receive as much information about the environment as possible from each ping. Having someone/something else making the ping isn't a problem as long as they don't overwhelm the replies.
As an experiment, try sitting in a place with a fair amount of white noise (such as CPU fans). Now slowly bring your right hand toward your ear with your palm open. The first thing you'll notice is a loss of some higher frequency ambient sounds from the right side. As the hand gets closer, you may notice an increase in reflected noises that originated on your left. Eventually you will be able to judge the distance between your ear and your palm simply by the tone of the noise.
a similar system in the cockpit of fighter planes could allow pilots to track some controls using their hearing, freeing up their eyes for other tasks
The Airforce already has been developing this already, not with echolocation though. It was shown on discovery channel or something. Uses a more efficient system.Aircraft uses sensors to measure position of other aircraft in the vicinity then onboard computer replicates positions in 3D audio space fed to Pilot's Helmet.
And it works. It helps track entities that are outside of the line of sight of the pilot.
Been done years ago by Aureal A3D anyway. Too bad Creative Killed 'em off, ate em up and didn't utilize their technology (Audigy uses a different system -- check out 3dsoundsurge.com).
I've got An SBLive and an A3D 3.0 soundcard. The A3D sounds sweeter and is better in hunting down opponents "echolocationally".
I'm sorry officer I was trying to drive by echolocation but I forgot to take the headphones off...
This is my sig.
I was about to launch into cries of "idiot", "troll", and "crazy man", but two lines into your post I totally realized what was going on. That's pretty amazing stuff! And a bit spooky too when you're reading away at normal speed and know exactly what it says.
It does, however, highlight the importance of context and knowledge, since Cmabrigde could be read as anything if we didn't all know about Cambridge.
Web Hosting Reviews
How can bats flying blindly detect 1/100 inch wires from several feet away, dodge stalactites in pitch-dark caves, catch insects on the wing or fish in motion just below the surface of the water, and find their way back to their home roost? In this remarkable book, a pioneering scientist in the areas of neurobiology and behavior explains in layperson's language just how bats can "see" with their ears.
Quoted from Amazon
Pprhaes I was a llttie too qciuk wtih my psaire and esuianthtam. I jsut took a bcnuh of sectennes and ran samilir scnramblig prescesos oevr tehm, and smoe wree qutie unrdalbeae. I tnihk taht, prhapes, the oraginil scnetnee was clferauly curtsnocted to be screlambd, yet esay to raed, in oerdr to spaerd the meme. Pahreps?
bite my glorious golden ass.
This is nothing new. Most of the techniques, talked about, have been used with RADAR for decades. The thing that bats do, is interpret the sonic wavefront. This is accomplished by the structure of the head and ears. They produce subtle phase shifting depending on the direction the waves are coming from. Humans do this also, but not nearly to the degree that bats do it. Its the bats need to manipulate wavefronts that has caused the evolution of the many spectacular head shapes. If a model of one of the simpler bats ( i.e. not a Mexican Freetail) is made that duplicates the affect that a bat has on its call, and place microphones were the eardrums are, a human would still need a lot of training to learn how to interpret the signals. Bats probably have a hardware solution to do some of this interpratation ( just like humans have a partialy hardware solution to the problem of parsing speach phonems). The only cool "bat" thing, the artical talks about, is the dynamic nature of the sound generation. Bats are in effect using sound like hands, to feel. But this is not unique to bats. The gymnatoid eels do something simular with electric signals. They also use the chirp modulation thing. I noticed that the artical does have a link to Waters website. I guess that counters some of the lameness.
I wrtoe a llitte sprcit in PHP taht dtaemrntesos tihs bivaoher. Cehck it out. I tnhik it's ptetry cool.
(Of crouse, scroue cdoe is mdae aivllabae uednr the GPL.)
...well, for sports at any rate.
Now, first things first, I'm not totally blind but I am legally blind. I have Achromatopsia, so I don't see a whole heck of a lot outside yet I can still play soccer, baseball, basketball (especially), Disc Golf and Ultimate Frisbee because I can hear what's going on around me at all times. I don't have to see where my disc lands I listen for the "thunk", with soccer and baseball there have been "beeper" balls for a long time and in basketball there are always sounds to let you know where the ball is (dribbling, passing, team mates, etc).
Now, this technology couldn't be used en masse as another post pointed out because there would be too much interferance from others and using headphones would block out other important sounds like traffic and other pedestrians.
Anywho, my $0.02
crazy dynamite monkey
SF writer Arthur Clarke wrote an essay about the senses humans have and don't have. He reported seeing a blind man referee a table tennis game, successfully. Clarke also mention playing table tennis under a tin roof once. When it started raining, his game collapsed.
Apparently we're better than we know at pinpointing sharp sounds in the environment.
There were a series of article written back in the early 80's in Sport Aviation, the house organ of the Experimental Aviation Association, about a radar system for light planes that worked in a similar way. The guy had built extremely cheap, short range (two miles, say) radars out of coffee cans. He mounted two of them in an airplane, pointed 45 degrees to the left and right of the centerline, and rigged stereo headphones to them. The idea would be that you could hear other traffic in the air, and then locate them with your eyes to see and avoid them.
It's surprisingly hard to pick up light planes visually, they are tiny specks right up until the time that they fill the windshield. The response of the FAA has been the TCAS systems -- which are extremely complex and eyewateringly expensive (about $1M per system) This makes sense for jetliners, but is out of the question for light planes.
As near as I can tell, nobody did anything with the BINCAS system after the articles came out. It was a cool idea, though.
thad
I love Mondays. On a Monday, anything is possible.
It seems even Google understands it, because the search results started with: "Do you mean: According research".
Web Hosting Reviews