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Can You Raed Tihs?

An aoynmnuos raeedr sumbtis: "An interesting tidbit from Bisso's blog site: Scrambled words are legible as long as first and last letters are in place. Word of mouth has spread to other blogs, and articles as well. From the languagehat site: 'Aoccdrnig to a rscheearch at an Elingsh uinervtisy, it deosn't mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny iprmoetnt tihng is taht frist and lsat ltteer is at the rghit pclae. The rset can be a toatl mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit porbelm. Tihs is bcuseae we do not raed ervey lteter by it slef but the wrod as a wlohe. ceehiro.' Jamie Zawinski has also written a perl script to convert normal text into text where letters excluding the first and last are scrambled."

71 of 997 comments (clear)

  1. Yes, a cat's got my tongue, OK? by inertia187 · · Score: 4, Funny

    Quick! Someone go register goaste.cx, micorsoft.com, ssdlhoat.org...etc.

    Actually, does this work well with letter pairs like, "th ch wh sh qu?" I forget what those are called.

    --
    A programmer is a machine for converting coffee into code.
    1. Re:Yes, a cat's got my tongue, OK? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

      Actually, does this work well with letter pairs like, "th ch wh sh qu?" I forget what those are called.

      Digraphs?

    2. Re:Yes, a cat's got my tongue, OK? by Bame+Flait · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Actually, does this work well with letter pairs like, "th ch wh sh qu?" I forget what those are called.

      The reason it DOES work well with those letter pairs is that they aren't familiar at all in reverse. You're more likely to udnerstand their juxtaposition as what it's supposed to be, because you're used to it being one way.

      Where it DOESN'T work as well is when you begin breaking up complex phonemes or diphthongs in short words. Konw what I'm sayin'?

    3. Re:Yes, a cat's got my tongue, OK? by shadowcabbit · · Score: 3, Funny

      I personally find it more creepy that people would be trying for goatse.cx .

      --
      "Why Subscribe?" Good question...
    4. Re:Yes, a cat's got my tongue, OK? by inertia187 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I noticed that compression is worse using scrambled text:

      [anthonym@uniblab scrbameld]$ ./scrmable.pl genesis.txet
      [anthonym@uniblab scrbameld]$ gzip g*
      [anthonym@uniblab scrbameld]$ ls -l
      total 304
      -rwxr-xr-x 1 anthonym staff 63830 Sep 15 16:33 genesis.text.gz
      -rw-r--r-- 1 anthonym staff 84945 Sep 15 16:36 genesis.txet.gz
      -rwxr-xr-x 1 anthonym staff 1396 Sep 15 15:56 scrmable.pl
      [anthonym@uniblab scrbameld]$ gunzip g*
      [anthonym@uniblab scrbameld]$ zip genesis.zip g*
      adding: genesis.text (deflated 70%)
      adding: genesis.txet (deflated 60%)
      [anthonym@uniblab scrbameld]$


      Interesting. Anyone have an explaination for tihs?

      --
      A programmer is a machine for converting coffee into code.
    5. Re:Yes, a cat's got my tongue, OK? by spongman · · Score: 4, Funny

      tripthong: falling flat on your face after getting out of bed the morning after a particularly successful date.

    6. Re:Yes, a cat's got my tongue, OK? by adamsan · · Score: 3, Informative

      "They're called dipthongs (sic)"

      No they ain't, diphthongs are pairs of vowels that merge together. Pairs of consonants are called err..consonant pairs.

    7. Re:Yes, a cat's got my tongue, OK? by edwdig · · Score: 4, Informative

      By randomly scrambling the letters, you're eliminating a lot of the redundancy.

      Huffman compression would be unaffected though, as it works on a per character basis.

    8. Re:Yes, a cat's got my tongue, OK? by Demodian · · Score: 3, Informative

      diphthongs and triphthongs are the vowel-only subsets of digraphs and trigraphs.

    9. Re:Yes, a cat's got my tongue, OK? by kcurtis · · Score: 5, Funny

      My neighbor weighed your argument. He used a beige scale, and decided it was probably the heinous act of a foreigner to make such a statement. And you're weird. So rein in yourself, and remove the veil of ignorance, ye feisty cad!

      Thou should forfeit karma, but that is neither here nor there.

    10. Re:Yes, a cat's got my tongue, OK? by boojum.cat · · Score: 3, Funny


      They're called dipthongs.

      Don't you mean "dgnthpois"? You're right, it doesn't seem to work very well...

      --
      Lost: one sig, witty, 120 chars, sentimental value. Reward offered.
  2. At Lsat! by Urantian · · Score: 5, Funny

    Bad splelnig no logner nedes to hlod aynnoe bcak!

    --
    Urantian -- and proud of it!
    1. Re:At Lsat! by Hamstaus · · Score: 5, Funny

      Bad splelnig no logner nedes to hlod aynnoe bcak!

      As if that's stopped anyone on Slashdot before.

      --
      I moderate "-1, Fool"
    2. Re:At Lsat! by scalis · · Score: 4, Funny

      So it IS true! Dyslexics definitely has more fnu!

      --

      True ravers don't need drugs
    3. Re:At Lsat! by insanecarbonbasedlif · · Score: 3, Funny

      As if that's stopped anyone on Slashdot before.

      Hehemmm. Taht solhud be: As if tath's stpoped aonnye on Sasldoht boeefr.

      --
      Just because I doubt myself does not mean I find your position compelling.
    4. Re:At Lsat! by Bob+Wehadababyitsabo · · Score: 5, Funny

      As if tath's stpoped aonnye on Sasldoht boeefr.

      You cna't eevn get the fekucd up snleiplg rghit!!!

      --
      fsck -u
    5. Re:At Lsat! by falzer · · Score: 3, Funny

      Dyslexics of the world untie!

  3. Here you go by JM+Apocalypse · · Score: 5, Informative

    No need to open the terminal ... Jeff comes to the rescue!

    http://jeff.zoplionah.com/scramble.php

    --

    - - - - - - -
    Orppf urp mf y.ppcxn. yflcbi otcnnov C am yflcbi yr n.apb Ekrpatv (Dvorak -> Qwerty)
    1. Re:Here you go by DoomHaven · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Yuor porgarm has a falw. It csnoiders pinctuouatn mkars as ltteers and tuhs any word wtih a pntctuuaion mark at the end wlil condeisr the fanil mark to be the lsat letter.

      --
      "Don't mind me cutting myself on Occam's Razor"
  4. In the Sivoet Uonin by tarquin_fim_bim · · Score: 4, Funny

    WRDOS SBRCALME YOU!

  5. holy.. by the+uNF+cola · · Score: 4, Funny

    Holy FCUK!

    --

    --
    "I'm not bright. Big words confuse me. But Wanda loves me and that should be enough for you." - Cosmo

  6. FINALLY by Rathian · · Score: 4, Funny

    Justification for the lack of spell checking on Slashdot...

  7. Hmmm by Verteiron · · Score: 5, Interesting

    So d__s t__s m__n t__t we d_n't n__d t_e m____e l____s at all?

    --
    End of lesson. You may press the button.
    1. Re:Hmmm by Verteiron · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Okay, I know it's bad form to reply to one's own post, but I noticed something. When writting "letters", l____rs seems more recognizable than l_____s. Apparently plurals are handled by the brain as the word followed by the plural suffix. Interesting...

      --
      End of lesson. You may press the button.
    2. Re:Hmmm by insanecarbonbasedlif · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I t___k y__r p__t is p___f t__t we d________y do n__d t_e m____e l_____s.





      Read: I think your post is proof that we definately do need the middle letters.

      --
      Just because I doubt myself does not mean I find your position compelling.
    3. Re:Hmmm by Verteiron · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Bt we nd te ss fr te wd cs.

      But we need the spaces, at least, for the word cues.

      So how many "bits" of information can we strip from a sentence, on average, before we can no longer intuitively decipher it? The spaces give us information, but not as much as the letters themselves. Yet clearly the ordering of the letters contains much less information than the contents of a word's endpoints. This is odd stuff.

      --
      End of lesson. You may press the button.
    4. Re:Hmmm by Jucius+Maximus · · Score: 3, Insightful
      " So d__s t__s m__n t__t we d_n't n__d t_e m____e l____s at all?"

      No, the middle letters are still necessary. I find myself misreading all the time because my brain took in the first and last letter and read it as a word with similar spelling and length.

      So I would hypothesize that the first/last letters along with the lengths of the words and a rough idea of what letters go in the middle are what our brains look for.

      But this only comes with practice. English is my first language and I have read millions and millions of words in English in my lifetime so I am very used to taking in written information this way. But if I switch to reading something in French (for which I took for 11 years in school but never became fluent, mainly because I hated learning french) I still have to read each word carefully because I am not used to reading it.

      So if some person who is just learning english looked at words with jumbled internals, I expect that they would have a terrible time trying to figure them out. Their brains have not read each word thousands of times so they still have to decode them letter by letter.

    5. Re:Hmmm by rusty0101 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      ActuallyIHaveFoundThatWeDoNotNeedSpaces.

      WeDoNeedPunctuation,AndSomeQueThatASpaceShouldBe Th ere.

      IWasAbleToWriteASetOfScriptsThatWouldCapitalizeT he First
      LetterOfEveryWord,ThenStripOutSpaces.IUseTh atScrip tToSend
      TextPagesToMyCellPhoneToSaveSpace.

      ToFollowUpOnYourIdea,WeCouldStripOutVowlesFromTh eM iddleOf
      WrdsAndStllFndMstOfTheTxtRdbl.IThnkWeNdTo LveAnyAtT heBgngOr
      EndOfTheWrdsThgh.

      At the moment it takes a bit of extra thinking to do that though.

      -Rusty

      --
      You never know...
  8. Microsoft calls that by Penguinshit · · Score: 5, Funny

    "encryption".

  9. So in other words... by Valar · · Score: 5, Funny

    It's a perl script to format normal text into text that looks like a perl script? I think my head is spinning.

    1. Re:So in other words... by gdchinacat · · Score: 3, Funny

      I any language were to program itself, perl would be it.

  10. Does this work for non native speakers? by PredatoryDuck · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I showed this to a student here who is native to Indonesia, so english is not her first language, and she had a very difficult time reading it. Any thoughts on why this might be so tied to your native tongue? I would have thought that anyone fluent in english (which she is) would be able to read the post without much difficulty.

    D

    1. Re:Does this work for non native speakers? by Hamstaus · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Spoken language and written language are two separate entities when it comes to usage and process. It is not uncommon to find people who are very well-spoken in a second language, but cannot write a word. I would venture to guess that your student takes much longer to read something in English than in her native language, despite her fluency. The patterns of English words would still require more concentration and interpretation by her brain than those of her native language, which have been ingrained into her since she was very young.

      You did not mention if she is a fluent reader/writer, speaker, or both? From what you describe I would say that when you said "fluent" you meant as a speaker.

      --
      I moderate "-1, Fool"
    2. Re:Does this work for non native speakers? by RobertB-DC · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I would have thought that anyone fluent in english (which she is) would be able to read the post without much difficulty.

      Actually, since I'm not British, the final word of the canonical scramble threw me off:

      Tihs is bcuseae we do not raed ervey lteter by it slef but the wrod as a wlohe. ceehiro.

      I read the rest of the text correctly, but I had a devil of a time figuring out the reference to the Miyazaki film Spirited Away, also known as Sen to Chihiro no Kamikakushi !

      --
      Stressed? Me? Of course not. Stress is what a rubber band feels before it breaks, silly.
    3. Re:Does this work for non native speakers? by gdchinacat · · Score: 3, Informative

      I think it is actually cheerio.

      WordNet (r) 1.7 [wn]

      cheerio
      n : a farewell remark; "they said their good-byes" [syn: adieu,
      adios, arrivederci, auf wiedersehen, au revoir,
      bye, bye-bye, good-by, goodby, good-bye, goodbye,
      good day, sayonara, so long]

  11. Take that 9th grade English teacher.... by SomeoneGotMyNick · · Score: 5, Funny

    Throw out the I before E rule once and for all.

  12. grammar still not optional by kellan1 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    This meme has been kicking around blogland for a couple of days, and it definitely seems to be true. The only part of the above paragraph that was difficult to read was the sentence, "the olny iprmoetnt tihng is taht frist and lsat ltteer is at the rghit pclae".

    Normally I would never post a comment about grammar, but it is kind of startling that in a block of text that jumbled the absence of 'the', and the swapping of 'is' for 'are' still jump out at you.

  13. Eggs by vevva · · Score: 4, Funny

    Agrlhit cleevr clogs - see if you can sbarclme eggs

  14. Yes I could read it but... by mark_space2001 · · Score: 4, Funny
    Aoccdrnig to a rscheearch at an Elingsh uinervtisy, it deosn't mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny iprmoetnt tihng is taht frist and lsat ltteer is at the rghit pclae. The rset can be a toatl mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit porbelm. Tihs is bcuseae we do not raed ervey lteter by it slef but the wrod as a wlohe. ceehiro.

    ...but it's like reading a post by a 12 year old on a forum someplace ... or like playing an online game with a bunch of l33t doodz. I hate it.

    Don't ever do this again, Slashdot.

  15. Only part of the answer.... by Mattcelt · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Understanding a language is only 50% comprehension. The other 50% is being able to predict what will come next based on previous experience. This is especially important in spoken language, because the brain simply does not have the power to parse each word separately in real time.

    So while it is possible to understand words that are not spelled correctly, it can still take a while to understand if the nxet few wdors are not qieut waht you epcext. It is aslo mcuh lses pbatldicree wehn you use lgenor wdros.

    I hpoe tihs was an imuilntinag eplamxe!

    Mclettat

    1. Re:Only part of the answer.... by MMaestro · · Score: 3, Interesting

      True. I've tried this before when I was younger with my parents, who did not learn English as their first language (their first language was Chinese) and they were unable to read the scrambled words. I doubt anyone who learned English as a second language would be able to read the scrambled words as easily as most Slashdotters.

  16. The bset prat by kuwan · · Score: 5, Funny

    The best part of the pearl script is the copyright notice:

    # Coyprgiht (C) 2003 Jamie Zawinski
    #
    # Premssioin to use, cpoy, mdoify, drusbiitte, and slel this stafowre and its
    # docneimuatton for any prsopue is hrbeey ganrted wuihott fee, prveodid taht
    # the avobe cprgyioht noicte appaer in all coipes and that both taht
    # cohgrypit noitce and tihs premssioin noitce aeppar in suppriotng
    # dcoumetioantn. No rpeersneatiotns are made about the siuatbliity of tihs
    # srofawte for any puorpse. It is provedid "as is" wiuotht exerpss or
    # ilmpied waanrrty.

    1. Re:The bset prat by cybermace5 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Uh oh, Jamie Zawinski has shown an interest in something. We have very little time before it is integrated into the standard xscreensaver loadout.

      --
      ...
  17. Just english? and for all words? by gmuslera · · Score: 4, Insightful
    Can this assumptions be false for other kind of languages or a priori is universal? At least in spanish after a few tries looked to me less clear than in english.

    Also... what happen when the scrambled word is another valid word? Or a misspelled valid words?

  18. Not entirely accurate by StewedSquirrel · · Score: 5, Interesting

    The "consonant pairs" seem to always be still paired in these words.

    If I type

    sllpenig it's clear I'm typing "spelling"

    but, if I type

    slpenlig it's not so clear anymore.

    What about: according

    Aoccdrnig (as in the article) is ok but...
    aocdrncig is not nearly as clear

    There's a limit to how far your brain can stretch it. Some consonant pairs your brain DOES intepret much like a single letter, because it's an irregularity in english.

    Words that use such consonant pairs and triplets like "tch" are much harder to distinguish when those pairs and triplets (which really sound like a single letter) are split.

    Stewey

    --
    There are 10 kinds of people in the world. Those who understand binary and those who don't.
  19. What?!? No "Frist Psot"? by momerath2003 · · Score: 5, Funny
    I can't believe it! I was assuming that someone, someone out there (especially the first poster) would do it!

    Come on, you slacker trolls!

    (ethighy-ftifh psot!)

    --
    I had but a simple dream, to destroy all humans.
    1. Re:What?!? No "Frist Psot"? by RobertB-DC · · Score: 4, Funny

      "Frist Psot" was rejected by the Lameness Filter, which was specially audjestd for this story. Note that the Slashdot spell-uncheck program was also adjusted to aollw the correct spellings of the non-scrambled wdors in the story to be let thourgh.

      (tihs siht is too mcuh fun! sotp me!)

      --
      Stressed? Me? Of course not. Stress is what a rubber band feels before it breaks, silly.
    2. Re:What?!? No "Frist Psot"? by Dirtside · · Score: 4, Funny
      What?!? No "Frist Psot"?
      Given the nature of the story, I'd expect the trolls to end up posting a properly spelled "First Post" message. :)
      --
      "Destroy science and religion. Science would re-emerge exactly the same; but not religion." - Penn Jillette, paraphrased
    3. Re:What?!? No "Frist Psot"? by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 4, Funny

      Let's see if I can get this over with in one fell swoop:

      all your bsae are boleng to us
      In Seviot Rsuisa Words Srcmable You
      Imangie a sbcramled bwelouf ctsuler
      Tihs mhigt be big eunogh to hold all my mp3's if I smalrcebd tehm (remmeber that one?)
      cehck out this lnik.

      Did I miss any?

      --
      My God, it's Full of Source!
      OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
    4. Re:What?!? No "Frist Psot"? by optikSmoke · · Score: 4, Funny

      You only missed one obvious one (to me): i gesus it deonst mtaetr taht sashlodt eidorts cnat selpl !

    5. Re:What?!? No "Frist Psot"? by Lord_Dweomer · · Score: 4, Funny
      I, for one, wcelmoe our new dyselxic oervlrdos!

      --
      Buy Steampunk Clothing Online!
  20. ynlo gcramblins eht tirsf dna tasl setterl by vevva · · Score: 5, Funny

    Eht sbviouo txperimene ot monfirc eht yheort si ot ees thaw sappenh nhew uoy ecrambls ynlo eht tirsf dna tasl setterl dna eeavl eht eiddlm setterl eht eams. Eompletc Kobbledegoog.

  21. This is Slashdot... by Osrin · · Score: 3, Funny

    people here don't read just the first and the last letters of a word... we generally don't read anything at all, we just hit reply and dive right in.

  22. This doesn't work at all by blunte · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Two reasons your message doesn't work without great effort:

    1 - You've left out the letters, and thus our brain can't do the quick magic to "know" the words. The summary of the story worked really well, surprisingly well. But yours is hosed.

    2 - There's no real context for your sentence, so it's even that much more difficult to guess quickly.

    --
    .sigs are for post^Hers.
  23. Ha! by vDave420 · · Score: 4, Interesting
    Not surprising. Your brains does lots of strange things.

    Please go and feed the the cat.


    Bet ya didn't see that, did ya?

    Re-read it slowly.

    -dave-

    --
    The pig browse. With Google. Sigh is to the chicken. Chicken is fool. Giggle. The DailyWTF giggle.
  24. SPAM?!?!?!? by mcrbids · · Score: 5, Funny

    Ok, so now they discover that randomizing the text within words doesn't detract (too much) from readability - does that mean we'll soon be seeing:

    ELNRAGE YUOR PNEIS!!!

    on the subject lines of emails received? How would any of the pattern matching anti-spam methods out there deal with this one?

    And, we just gave them the tool do use!

    -Ben

    --
    I have no problem with your religion until you decide it's reason to deprive others of the truth.
    1. Re:SPAM?!?!?!? by Dirtside · · Score: 5, Funny
      ELNRAGE YUOR PNEIS!!!
      Wow, when I first read that, my brain parsed it as "ENRAGE YOUR PENIS!!!" Which sounds like a really bad idea.
      --
      "Destroy science and religion. Science would re-emerge exactly the same; but not religion." - Penn Jillette, paraphrased
    2. Re:SPAM?!?!?!? by TLouden · · Score: 3, Insightful

      FUNNY?!

      This is a serious problem. Now we just killed one of our methods for eliminating spam.

      --
      -Tim Louden
  25. yeah... by commodoresloat · · Score: 4, Funny

    and I, for one, wlcemoe our new dslyxeic ovlrerdos!

  26. This is old news, here's the original by thejackol · · Score: 5, Interesting

    This is so darn old... I thought Slashdot was bleeding edge! Here is the original forward FYI:

    Titled: Do Spellings Matter?

    "... randomising letters in the middle of words [has] little or no effect on the ability of skilled readers to understand the text. This is easy to denmtrasote. In a pubiltacion of New Scnieitst you could ramdinose all the letetrs, keipeng the first two and last two the same, and
    reibadailty would hadrly be aftcfeed. My ansaylis did not come to much beucase the thoery at the time was for shape and senqeuce retigcionon.

    Saberi's work sugsegts we may have some pofrweul palrlael prsooscers at work. The resaon for this is suerly that idnetiyfing coentnt by paarllel
    prseocsing speeds up regnicoiton. We only need the first and last two letetrs to spot chganes in meniang"

    And if you liked *that* one so much, you might like this one too:

    Read the sentence below carefully:

    "I do not know where family doctors acquired illegibly perplexing handwriting nevertheless, extraordinary pharmaceutical intellectuality counterbalancing indecipherability, transcendentalizes intercommunications' incomprehensibleness".

    This is a sentence where the Nth word is N letters long.

    e.g. 3rd word is 3 letters long, 8th word is 8 letters long and so on.

    And if you like that one too, here is another one you can try to kill your boredom...

    While sitting, draw clockwise circles on the ground with your right foot. While doing that, try drawing the number "6" in air with your right hand.

    Your foot will change direction.

  27. impruvd inglis by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    I like the proposed UN English language modifications to make English easier for everyone to learn!

    The European Union commissioners have announced that agreement has been reached to adopt English as the preferred language for European communications, rather than German, which was the other possibility.

    As part of the negotiations, the British government conceded that English spelling had some room for improvement and has accepted a five-year phased plan for what will be known as EuroEnglish (Euro for short).

    In the first year, "s" will be used instead of the soft "c". Sertainly, sivil servants will resieve this news with joy. Also, the hard "c" will be replaced with "k". Not only will this klear up konfusion, but typewriters kan have one less letter.

    There will be growing publik enthusiasm in the sekond year, when the troublesome "ph" will be replaced by "f". This will make words like "fotograf" 20 per sent shorter.

    In the third year, publik akseptanse of the new spelling kan be expekted to reach the stage where more komplikated changes are possible. Governments will enkorage the removal of double letters, which have always ben a deterent to akurate speling. Also, al wil agre that the horible mes of silent "e"s in the languag is disgrasful, and they would go.

    By the fourth year, peopl wil be reseptiv to steps such as replasing "th" by "z" and "w" by " v".

    During ze fifz year, ze unesesary "o" kan be dropd from vords kontaining "ou", and similar changes vud of kors be aplid to ozer kombinations of leters.

    After zis fifz yer, ve vil hav a reli sensibl riten styl. Zer vil be no mor trubls or difikultis and evrivun vil find it ezi tu understand ech ozer. Ze drem vil finali kum tru.

  28. Implications for Phonics vs. Whole-word Debate? by Xthlc · · Score: 4, Interesting

    My parents are both teachers, and one of the most tiresome quarrels in education is Phonics vs. Whole-Word debate. Do you teach someone to read by teaching them how to sound out syllables (phonemes)? Or do you teach them to recognize whole-word patterns by rote?

    Experimentally, a pure-phonics approach has proven to have the highest success rate. However, these results would suggest that whole-word approach *does* map onto some important cognitive structure . Perhaps this means that, once past the basic level, whole-word techniques would prove to be valuable in turning beginning readers into advanced readers.

    1. Re:Implications for Phonics vs. Whole-word Debate? by Vaughn+Anderson · · Score: 3, Interesting
      Don't the number of exceptions to the phonics generalizations hamper it greatly as a tool?

      I am no reading expert but a good friend of mine is. From what I gathered from him is that the actual act of "decoding" a written word into a spoken word is the very first step in reading.

      If you don't know what the sound the letter "P" makes you can never ever read the letter. So the basics of reading _is_ phonics. Phonics is not some kind of "method" of teaching how to read, it is a process that every single person reading this text right now has to go through in order to decode the imagery into a sound.

      Then once the person get's good enough at it they no longer have to focus concious attention to the decoding process as it becomes automatic.

      But even I as a very skilled reader when I run into a very new, large or complex word I _have_ to sound it out, or attempt to, because that is the only way a human being can read.

      Decoding visual symbols to auditory symbols = phonics.

      Then after the steps of decoding comes comprehension, which is totally seperate from decoding. (I am sure I have the order of events wrong here...) A child can sound out the sentence-

      "Frank went to the market to buy a german shepard"

      -but they still need to understand what they decoded. Whole language is a guessing game based on assumptions and values that are not concretely 100% based on a system of the intetional ordering of the letters in relation to their auditory equivilants.

      As adults we can use whole language easily in the sense that we can guess words based on previous knowledge of the word (written and spoken) but not so for a small child that has never decoded any words.

      As an example my daughter likes to guess words because that is how they started in Kindegarten, with sight words ( a huge mistake ). So she started with the habit of merely memorizing shapes of words without even considering the auditory values of the letters of those words.

      After teaching my daughter some very basic decoding skills based on help from my friend, my daughter learned to read words she's never seen before. She read the word "giraffe" all by herself using her new found decoding skills. I gurantee you that no skills of the "whole language" idealogy would come close to providing this kind of reading ability in a 6 year old kid.

      Can you explain in detail, step by step how you know how to read the word "giraffe"? In whole language you don't have steps to parse the sounds out and recombine them.

      Here's the logic.
      1. "g" sounds like G as in "Great"
      2. "ir" sounds like "er" as in "Her"
      3. "a" sounds like "a" in "hat"
      4. "ff" sounds like "f" in "fast"
      5. "e" sounds like "e" in "see"

      Then the child comes initially with the word "geraffy" when it should be "jeraf"

      The child at age 6 knows many thousands of words, and does not recognize "geraffy" so...

      1. Child recognizes the silent "e"
      2. Over compensates and makes the "a" sound like "a" in "bay"
      3. "g" can sound like "j"
      4. Now has word "jerayf"
      5. Reverts the "ay" to "a", considers it a mistake, and gets-
      6. "jeraf" which is the correct sound, at which time the child jumps up and down with glee.

      But even easier is reading the word in a sentence. "I saw a giraffe at the zoo today"

      As competent readers we automatically do all the calculations that this child does when we find a new word. After a number of times reading a word, the decoding is either automatic and extermely fast or as I like to view it in my own mind, there is a pre-rendered cached version of the word "giraffe" sitting in my mind, so when I see the word in it's whole, I know it's meaning without having to completely parse the word a single block at a time (by letter) but by the whole word itself.

      Some of this is my opinion and the rest is raw fatual data.

  29. The Definitive Misspelling Post by The+Monster · · Score: 3, Funny
    I think your post is proof that we definately do need the middle letters.
    But it's apparently not so definite which letters we need.

    <sigh>

    --

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    SVM, ERGO MONSTRO.

  30. Compression worse... by douglips · · Score: 4, Informative

    That's easy. Let's say you have a text file that consists of 14,000 instances of the word "begat". This compresses to a file that simply indicates "repeat 14,000 'begat '".

    Now, after you scrmable it, it's got equal quantities of begat, beagt, baget, baegt, bgeat, and bgaet. It's not so easy to compress any more.

    Essentially, you're increasing the entropy of the file by a fair amount. Truly random data is not so easy to compress as english, because english has lots of order. Added disorder or entropy means compression is just not as easy.

    1. Re:Compression worse... by CarlDenny · · Score: 3, Informative

      The first half dozen occurances of the definition you quoted also included:
      2: (communication theory) a numerical measure of the uncertainty of an outcome; "the signal contained thousands of bits of information"

      If it's a pet peeve of yours, perhaps you should make a study of statistical mechanics and information theory, where the concept and term are more clearly and quantitatively defined. With a slightly deeper understanding of statistical mechanics, you will find that ther term is more fundamental than you thought, and that they are mathematically identical, applied to two separate fields. With this understanding, your objection is similar to saying that length is defined by the distance between two ends of an object, and that talking about the length of a file, or a length of time, is completely wrong.

      While the term originated in thermodynamics, it was given a formal definition (even within the realm of physics) by Boltzmann with the development of statistical mechanics. Statistical mechanics allow Boltzmann to formulate and discuss entropy well in advance of energy or temperature. When they do enter the picture, thermodynamic (dQ/dt) entropy is identical to the statistical definition, with temperature defined by 1/t = d(Energy)/d(entropy) where those ds are partial derivatives. It's actually a fascinating topic, and a beautiful mathematical insight.

      The description and definition used by Boltzmann for statistical mechanics are exactly the same as those used in information theory:
      Entropy = Sum (-p(state)*ln(p(state)))
      (over all possible states)
      Or, with all states equally likely (the equipartition principle):
      Entropy = ln( # of possible states)

      Which is, of course, why Shannon used the term and the definition.

      Sorry to contradict you, but misunderstandings and misuse of the term entropy are also pet peeves of mine, and this is not one of them. ;)

  31. Rmiends me of... by TamMan2000 · · Score: 4, Funny

    Pron

    Cna't beileve I was the frist to say it...

    --
    "I'll have a Guinness, no wait, make that a Coors Light" -Grad student I work with, who shall remain anonymous...
  32. Re:bah! real men only need 1 line by Jamie+Zawinski · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Uh huh, and you probably post to Slashdot by tapping on the ethernet jack with battery and a paper clip, right?

    People who actually know how to program realize that while line noise one-liners are sometimes a cute party trick, it's a worthless way to program.

    The more your Perl looks like static, the less well you have written it.

  33. Bit of a simplistic article... by quinkin · · Score: 5, Interesting
    The best example I can think of for comprehension failure with jumbled text is with ordered interdependant phonemes. For instance - "eau", or "ough".

    Turhgoh = Through

    A topic that does not seem to have had much coverage in this article is the actual iconic visual recognition that our brains appear to use in word recognition.

    Obviously each word approximates a patterned rectangle (serif fonts emphasize this further) with occasional outliers (ie. t, y, l, and any other letters that protrude above or below the base rectangle).

    People with poor eyesight rely on this fuzzy but fast recognition frequently. In fact there is a classic psych experiment based around displaying a word that iconically is very similar to another word, while simultaneously presenting a context that implies the second word, and asking the subject to record the word. The subject mis-records the word roughly 90% of the time.

    Q.

    --
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  34. Real world application by ThesQuid · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Actually, I can think of one extremely interesting application for this idea - cryptography. It is actually highly intelligible, but definitely bound to give any code-breaking algorithims headaches when trying to correlate know words to patterns. I may have to try doing this to send messages to my friend in a chinese prison. I'm sure it would give the censors fits trying to translate it.

  35. A sample sentence by Azureflare · · Score: 3, Funny
    Context is used to determine the actual meaning of the word. A word can be spelled randomly as another valid word. I think given a sample sentence, the true meaning can be derived.

    "Tikang garet crae, I septped bihend the gril, and fdnoled her basters"

    Um, that is a little hard to read isn't it. Well, ok, I think you're right. Notice "gril" and "basters" in the same sentence, make you think of cooking.

    And yes, this statement could be offensive. Well, I'm male. I can't really help it.