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IT Training in the Military?
firehzd1 asks: "Yesterday's article about the new Czar of Security for the Department of Homeland Security raises a very important question, especially lately. What type of opportunities are there for IT work in the military/government. It seems every article I read is bashing the govt/military for terrible IT decisions/systems but I never hear the other side of the story. How bout we hear from those in the field that can give us a idea of what it is like behind the other side of the heavily armed gate?"
Hell I don't know a thing about the actual state of IT in the DoD, but I did sleep at a Holiday Inn Express lastnight.
From what I've read about system purchasing for the combat arms and aviation the following seems to be important to the DoD when it comes to computing technology.
1. Robustness is important
2. There is growing motivation to buy common systems for all the branches (including Coast Guard) rather than have many specialized systems.
3. Anything you sell the DoD today you have to support for at least 15 years, that includes CPUs like the PowerPC and IA. The new JSF, F-22 and Super Hornet are using Cat-5 and PowerPC chips (in the 132-400 MHz range IIRC) to power the flight computers and to connect systems and buses.
I think the move towards Microsoft isn't so much of a whoring out to MS, as it's a decision based on the fact that MS will be there in 15 years.
If you want IT, go with the Air Force. If any of my nephews decide to join the service, I will strongly counsel them to go in the Air Force instead of the Amry (where I spent 7 years).
Why teach the grunts how to use boxen when you can pay a contractor treble for the same services?
That's Un-American, old boy!
http://www.gd-ns.com
If I were an MBA, I'd go home and want to forget about work. I'd dread going in the morning. I'd have gobs of money to spend on distracting myself from my horrible job with all sorts of expensive toys and drug addictions, but that's not exactly what I'd consider ideal.
Hopefully, I'll be fortunate enough to never have a job I want to retire from. Not because I can't, but because its far more fun that sitting around playing golf or motoring around in a yacht and eating dinner at 4:30 in the afternoon.
a few years ago. It was a custom one week course at a secure facility. There were 20 students who needed to learn sys admin, and were supposed to already know some basic unix skills. No one knew crap, and these poor bastards had to work a 10 hour shift, and then spend 8 hours of classroom time with me. I think a few of them got something useful out of it, the rest were too tired to care most of the time. I made sure everyone got a copy of the OS manuals for the systems, a copy of Evi's book on sys admin, and the course materials I developed, so maybe they could puzzle it out after I left. As usual, all the officers who made them take the class refused to sit in, even at no extra charge. They couldn't be bothered to work late, the losers.
I was an electronics tech for the Navy. Did maintenance on comm gear and other electronic equipment. Went through a variety of schools. I feel the education is very good and the hands on experience is great. I worked with a variety of test equipment, receivers, transmitters, communication gear, etc.
When I was in, the most technologically advanced jobs were CTM (Crypto Tech Maintenance), ET (Electronics Tech), DS (Data Systems), among others (more specialized).
One individual I met while in was a Senior Chief ET at Treasure Island. As far as I know, he was one of the people to first develop laser listening devices for civilian purchase, or at least one of the first that I've heard of. I didn't see a working model, but he explained what it was and how it worked to me.
At yet another installation, I met a group of Navy Petty Officers and Air Force Sgt's that were developing a means to render video to CD, at the time, it wasn't common place (I hadn't even heard of the technology at the time) to find video on CD's.
There's many "cutting edge" tech gadgets being used in the .mil, of course these are the ones you never hear about until they're released to civilian use.
It's like the old story about the guy that invented the first "radar gun" for highway patrolmen, he also invented the first "radar detector" for civilians. :-)
Jerry Fletcher,
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Join the Navy Reserves. Being in the Navy Reserves I can tell you that there are lots of training opportunities available; even more for active duty. The Navy has a rate (their word for primary job) called the Information Technology Specialist (those familar with Navy jobs: this rate is the afterproduct of joining the Radioman and Data Processesing rates). Training for this job includes all the coursework required for an A+, Windows 2000 Pro MCP, and a Cisco CCNA combined into a 13 week (8 hour a day) course located near Chicago, IL. It is classroom instruction and lab work. All the labs are new equipment (P4 or better computers and a new full lab of Cisco routers and switches). Best of all, after your training you are required to have a Top Secret clearance with a SSBI (special background investigation) which is good for 5 years. If you are really interested in getting a clearance and some great training, check out www.navyjobs.com or see your recruiter.
This is true. That is why the Navy has created a new officer designation, IP Officer. These are the officers that will "own" the network and hopefully be able to give better direction to its useage, security, and management.
The R&D teams of the military tend to be 10 years ahead of the civilan sector. This is true. That the military itself is always at the forefront of tech is a common misconception. I work in the sort of classified facility you see movies made about. I work on some systems that are older than I am. It might've been the fore front of tech back in Vietnam, but it certainly isn't now. Beleive it or not this is fairly common in the military. The common big wig's view is: if morale is good and the system is running why mess with it? All those big bucks you hear about the military getting, well a lot of that winds right back in the civilian sector in the form of contracting. For instance: the air force doesn't design planes. Lockheed and Martin and Boeing design planes. They're the ones that wind up with the cash influx. I wind up using a computer that I have to check ever day or so to make sure it hasn't frozen up!
I enlisted in the Air Force for 4 years. I had a guaranteed job of Computer Operations Technician. People in this career field generally do basic PC repair, networking, help desk, and communications center staffing. Lucky me, I spent most of my time in the comm center "monitoring" computers all hours of the night. It was basically 2.5 years of 12 hour shifts.
I also spent 6 months in computer security. It was interesting, but basically all we did after the schooling was make sure base unclassified systems were "compliant." It was a bogus check and a real waste of time, since we weren't granted access to the systems in question. We basically had to take the owner's word on whether they installed all the patches, etc.
The nice thing is that I spent the down time learning perl, php, mysql, etc., and now I've got a good web development job. But most people there weren't so motivated (and thus, are still in and making $1500/month gross).
I also spent 4 months in England doing network support. It was the most fun I had during those 6 months.
So in short, the training was bad, the job was bad, and virtually nobody in my squadron knew wtf they were talking about. I guess that's why the squadron was decommissioned a few years ago!
I think they outsourced everything to civilian contractors (except the 24 hour comm center, of course!).
I did 4 years (95-99) in the USMC in an Information Systems Management Office (ISMO) before they started consolidating all the Communication Occupations with the Computer Operators.
Back then the ISMO was a new animal and they pulled officers from all the other fields to staff the place. They opened up the computer field and sorted out the recruits based on good math skills, and logic to fill those positions. The peons really knew what they were doing. We were technically proficient, even though the tech was obsolete. Back then there was no budget for this stuff and the brass though we should be fine with the desktops they bought 5 years ago.
What really drove military IT into the ground was that you were paying a low ranking private first class about $800 a month to do what equally skills civilians where doing in the real world for $50-75k.
Everyone I knew that had any competence would leave the service after their first 4 years, grabbing jobs with major Telcos, Fortune 500's. These corporations didn't even try to hide it. They would spam our office, send headhunters on base, and negotiate salaries with you in front of your staff officers.
The ones that couldn't get the civilian jobs, loved the corps like it was an Elvis fan club, or were too dumb to make it in the real world. They would re-enlist and eventually become your superiors. Still making dumb mistakes and still having a poor grasp of technology. And it killed all of us to know what had to be done, knew what was technically feasible and what wasn't, and you couldn't make any kind of statement or suggestion without someone saying it was insubordination!!!
I don't know how it is now, but my guess is that they are doing a little better. Sure the budgets are still getting cut, and you can't speak unless spoke to, but the brass is more tech savy now, and with the economy in the toilet, just have a job is a luxury. Having one that can't fire you or lay you off is where its at. Hell, I'm probably making as much as they are now with the paycuts I took.
Since you brought it up, I entered the Army Reserves with the MOS 74B (Information Systems Operator/Analyst). I wanted the job to help my resume while I get my B.S. in Computer Science. I'm the kind of person that I had never imagined myself in any form of the military. I went to basic training back in January 03, then went to AIT at Ft. Gordon in March up until July. Unfortunately, the 74B training in AIT was sadly lacking.
I'm sure anyone else here on slashdot would have agreed with me. In the exciting 74B school you will learn things such as installing Windows 2000 Professional and Server, adding users to the active directory, changing the background, etc., which lasts 2 weeks. You will repeat the same online quizzes over and over for two weeks while you cover A+ and N+. You will spend a week on the Unix command line, and a week on Solaris adding users and setting the time. You will learn about subnetting, configuring low-end Cisco switches and routers, and building a LAN. Oh, and then you'll learn Access 97.
The course was entirely geared for people with little or no computer experience. Some of the other trainees with me had CCNA's and MCSE's, yet no one was allowed to test out of any of the courses. Of course, the Army has needs for more than just installing windows and typing a few Unix commands, so we were always told that the "real learning" would occur during active duty, after AIT. I can't say what opportunities there are after AIT since I'm in the Reserves and choose to work in the civilian sector.
If you choose to go into this field, be aware that during the 4 months of AIT as a 74B (which I believe they are going to lengthen to 5 or 6 months) you will have little rights. If you're 17 or 35, you will lose a lot of things that you take for granted during your normal life. Despite being in the IT field, don't expect to have much access to Internet, or a computer for that matter. TV doesn't really exist, cars don't exist, cell phones exist 2 days a week (guess which ones).
Good luck to you if any of you choose this field in the Army. I was begging to go back to college by the time I got done with this course.
The mindset you describe is endemic to the other services. Marines hate doing shit just for the sake of doing shit. We're very much into "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." The reason stems both from the culture of the Corps and the fact that we don't have an assload of money to toss around like the other services *cough*Air Force*cough*.
As Fr0mZer0 pointed out, our biggest problem is high turnover in critical MOS's - and computer-related fields are some of the worst.
Another problem we face is worthless systems or infrastructures pushed down on us from the Department of the Navy because the Navy wants some new whiz-bang, e.g. NMCI (don't get me started on that piece of monkey-shit).
I don't think asking people to do something outside of their degrees is a problem for two reasons. First, spreading your wings is what being an officer is all about. Second, you're there to lead - not be the technical expert. If you need technical expertise, that's what your senior enlisted are for and anything beyond them can be contracted out.
I don't know what the ratio of combat support vs combart arms forces are, but rest assured that they are much lower in the Corps, just as the officer vs enlisted ratio is. Besides, in the Marines, we're all riflemen anyways.
Here's the straight scoop from the USMC:
/26 net. Officers get an even more watered down course because they are also trying to soak in LF/HF/VHF/SAT radio principles and other management related skills. No background is considered whatsoever other than the math score on the ASVAB. You will often find officers with history degrees in charge of IT budgets.
Enlisted and Officers alike receive bare minimum training. The junior enlisted are divided into two pipelines, but mostly came from the old consolidated MOS of 4066 - Small Systems Computer Specialist (Name varies depending on who you talk to). Their course is about 2 months of learning how to install windows and other basic software, run basic network management tools, and generic introductions to major end uses of computers i.e. web, database, exchange, etc. They also receive a very quick course on the basics of networking with switches and routers, although most PFCs give you a blank stare if you ask for the Broadcast, Gateway, and IP range of a
The junior Marines get out into the Operating Forces and are promptly bombarded with distractions. Mess duty still exists in places, Camp services to keep the base clean, Camp guard, rifle range for two weeks a year, and a whole slew of minor classes, seminars, and stand downs that have no bearing on IT at all. Add in deployment time where they are stuck working a help desk, or worse, an admin related billet. Then add in weekends, holidays, and vacation time. We did the math out here in Japan where most single folks only stay for 1 year and out of 365 days, we only get 142 days of work out of someone. Unless they are spending their free time keeping up with the industry, they are rapidly growing into an NCO who knows just enough to bullshit his way past any problem, but not actually solve it.
Senior enlisted are even worse. The junior enlisted who are legitimate geeks almost always spend their 4 years focussing on their own education, often during work hours playing with production servers. After they have pissed everyone off by bringing the exchange server down once every other month, they have learned enough to get certified and get out for a "real job". This produces holes in the ranks which are often filled by senior enlisted from other job fields who have to find an open MOS, or get out. My last two comm chiefs were both infantry up to the rank of Sergeant. Of course a few good geeks who love being Marines stay around and generally become the Miracle workers of their commands, but for the most part, the quality of service garnered is grossly lacking. Hopefully, my description of the system is evidence that it is not the people's fault.
NMCI brings a small ray of hope in just getting a level of corporate knowledge. I don't know how many times I've called the server farm to hear, "Cpl Smith is the database guy, but He's on deployment until next month."
Here is an example of how the general level of inexperience hurts. The Blaster Virus attacks via DCOM RPC calls on port 135. The Base networking solution was to simply scan all computers for activity on that port and shut down any subnets that had activity. HELLO!!, port 135 is one of the key ports that NETBIOS communicates over which is a legitimate service. We've spent the past 3 days responding to reports that computer X has the virus only to find the machine clean. I haven't even begun to add up the lost man-hours as a result of NETWORK managers not understanding BASIC NETWORK protocols.
Don't even get me started on the complete lack of UNIX knowledge and support.
I could also rant on the officer side, but it boils down to the same thing....too many distractions to keep up with modern IT and not enough education/background to rapidly grasp the information. To a certain extent, the Marine Corps has hired civillians to manage the Enterprise and we do have one of the most stable and secure Nets in the DOD, but the system could be so much better if IT staffing was completely re-engineered.
The flip side of course, is that Network manager is capable of taking the network into a forward environment and competently defend it as a riflemen. The last time I saw members of the AF and Navy with guns, it scared me.
I've dirtied my hands writing poetry, for the sake of seduction; that is, for the sake of a useful cause. --Dostoevsky
On the contrary, I'll have to disagree with the fact that the military's IT is getting better. I was down at Davis Monthan this past March, and while I was touring their communications offices and whatnot, they were dealing with a script kiddie who had hacked his way into classified material. He was caught, yes, but it just shows how very little security has really prevailed within the military. For those who don't know, Davis Monthan is the Air Force base responsible for training all their A-10 pilots, and supposedly a "secure" base as far as IT goes. Also, down in the Twin Cities where I lived was the home of the 934th Airlift Wing and the 133rd, I believe. Again, their IT infrastructure was a bloodbath. A sergent was being detained for hacking into more classified information, using nothing but telnet. No tools, no exploits, no nothing. He just telneted his way through the network until he got to something good. All in all, I love the military, however its IT status is a trainwreck and a massacre waiting to happen.
I have to agree with the previous posters, I too, am a 3C0X1, and I do agree that opporunities for formal Technical training can be scarce. But the chance for getting experience is wide open for an ambitious individual. Our career field is well different, our training is well behind the power curve, but the technology we often deal with day to day is usually on par with what is available in the rest of the IT field.
I work at a deployed location, and here we have only one contractor, and I work as the Network Admin. A deminding position in a deployed lcoation, and I have to say that from my experience, the younger troops like myself have the technical knowledge to get the job done, while our older counterparts are either cross-trainees or just not all that experienced with IT.
This creates a unique situation where the young, more technically inclined airmen have to take the lead and get up to speed on equipment and software that at first may be unfamiliar. But I find that younger airmen with some background in computers and IT, tend to adapt quickly, and before you know it are running things and making the network work, for the most part smoothly.
Now does the Military suck with training, it does. but experience is the ky, and that security clearance, and the chance to get exposed is also key. Will I stay in, no, I already decided that, I can make more on the outside, and do more with what I know. But the Military IT is a great place for a young prospective IT expert to get their feet wet. Get education, and then move on. At least I know that is my plan.
Ditto parent. I'm an IT in the Reserves, and love it. I'm assigned to a Coastal Warfare unit, so when I do my monthly drills we're usually out in the field, working on satellite comms, secure high frequency datalinks spanning hundreds of square kilometers, and eating nothing but MREs. Either that, or we're on the rifle range or working out in the gym. None of which I get to do in my civilian job.
And forget seeing your recruiter. If you're in the LA area, see me first (org.waddingham@cory). I'll make sure you get what you want, not what the recruiter has on his quota list. Remember the one thing the US military and Al Queda have in common: our recruiters lied to us, too.
God invented whiskey so the Irish would not rule the world.
As the title generally says, I have had an extremely good experience with the Army and IT. Before you write this off as a "party" line, I honestly couldn't care who reads it, everyone that knows me knows this is how I feel. I started out (and still am) an 11C.. for the non-mil folk out there, I'm an Infantry grunt that knows how to fire a mortar system. But I got a degree in Electrical Engineering before working for the gov. Someone had to pay for it, right? I got into a really cool program in the Guard that lets me do infantry stuff on the weekends and two weeks during the summer (which, btw, is BS.... I get to go to The Sandbox for a year) but get paid as a DoD civilian, GS Scale with incentive pay, 9-5 monday-friday. It's a good chunk of change, only about 10-15K under going rate for a well trained security guru, but the bennies are great. Good insurance, retirement, alternate work schedules, get to pick new projects, involved in funding streams, etc.
My education was a much more professional one... my degree got the whole 74B garbage waived, and I go to some really cool black-hat type hacker schools, SANS training, Cisco schools, etc. I needed to brush up on Perl, so I dug into my budget, asked the boss, he was cool with it and I went. That easy. We have CCIE's, MSCEs, CCNEs, EMC Certified Engys, and even a guy with an Oracle Master's. I make sure I send as many people to training every year as I can, especially to places like D.C., Vegas, San Luis Obispo and make sure they have all the amenities. Makes everyone happy.
As far as the IT environment goes, it's hostile. Period. I'm responsible for the security on over 2400 nodes, and our IT shop is small with assets spread out over an entire state. It's a constant battle, and there are figurative bullets flying at us from every direction. If it's not the latest MS security hole, it's foreign interests trying to hack. But I like this. My job is never boring, and very fluid... in 4 years I haven't done the same thing in two days straight. I've got a decent manager, and everytime we get a new position funded, it gets filled in a matter of days, almost always with a really qualified person in it for the bennies.
IT decisions, on the other hand, are often boneheaded, pushed from the top down by people who don't know what they're doing and lock us into contracts that are inflexible and software or hardware is obsolete by the time we get it.
But, that's changing. New purchasing procedures let us choose best value for the buck, not lowest price. So now we buy Dell servers instead of having JoeBob Inc.'s servers shoved down our throats. Requiring EAL Compliance on everything we buy means that we're not going to get stuck with some fly-by-night company's product in a contract, when the company folds before the contract is fulfilled (Gain Systems, anyone?). If the product got EAL conformance, at least the company has enough cashflow to get it evaluated. We have a framework, caled the JTA-A (Joint Tactical Architecture - Army) which we must operate in, but that's a wide boundary and lets me pick some very cool projects at a whim, and start some pilot projects with new technology which get funded if they pan out. Because of our ability to bring in other military personnel as needed, as well as a very defined chain of command, we can and have reacted very quickly to threats in the security arena. For instance, we patched up almost 1500 windows systems for Blaster only three days after the warning came out. September 11 was the biggest trial by fire, we had over $1 mil of working telecom and data equipment with operators at WTC less than three hours after the first strike.
The only real issue I have is the budgeting process. We get X dollars every year allotted to us, which is nowhere near enough to run the shop efficiently, but suddenly in September we get an influx of cashflow in the million dollar range. So you put together quotes for everything that broke during the year, everything that will break, and all new stuff and
"If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat." -Sun Tzu
but I do work for a military research lab.
We have legit high tech. On a simplistic level, my group (which does communication technologies) uses about 1/3 1/3 1/3 linux/Mac/MS in our offices. Oh -- on gigabit. Advanced hardware, software, and scientific equipment abounds.
There's plenty of advanced technology in the lab, but it doesn't make it out to the field. Why? Maybe there are issues in supply chain, environment, training, power availability, cost, etc. I have no idea.
Do consider that more advanced systems are often more expensive, more complex to roll out, and more fragile. That doesn't mean that our boys overseas should be using Atari 2600s to manage the theatre, but an organization as large, multifaceted, and cautious as the military is bound to be slow to upgrade.
Support a few technologists in Washington.
I don't know if you'll see this reply, given that it's a couple days after your initial post. Mostly, I'm curious: if you could do anything you wanted to change the curriculum or the training methods, what would you do? With what would you replace CDCs, and what sort of material would you teach in the tech school classrooms?
I know several of the training instructors who teach the computer programming course at Keesler. Their purpose is not to teach programming languages, but rather, programming concepts. While the syntax behind IF statements and LOOP structures differs from one language to another--and it doesn't vary much at all between Ada and VB--the logic that determines when you should use an IF or a LOOP, or whether you should use a FOR LOOP or a WHILE LOOP, is the same regardless of language.
I don't think the training system is perfect--but I've been through the process (Tech. School, 5-level CDCs, 7-level CDCs, Tech. School again). Like the promotion system, it's far from perfect--but it is at least fair in that everyone suffers through it equally. Still, if you (or anyone else!) has a suggestion that may improve the system, share it. I'm willing to walk it forward; and if others are willing to do so as well, you might see a change while you're still in the service.
!#@%*)anks for hanging up the phone, dear.
First, let me say military recruiters aren't bad people. But they are, essentially, salesmen. And they have quotas to meet. Some ratings are more critical than others, so they always steer people in those directions, because that's what their bosses drill them on. But if you're just looking to do four years to get some real world IT experience, and see the world while you're at it, you might not care so much about long term career prospects for what you want to do.
/. is gonna score *really* high on the ASVAB, the Armed Services Vocational Aptitude Battery test. This is the test that will determine what you can do in the military. I aced mine (got every question right), so of course they tried to push me into nuclear power. But I had zero interest in having a kid with one eye (this was before Futurama, of course), so I opted for electronics, instead. The same thing will likely happen to you.
With all this in mind, anyone who's a regular on
Also, if you tell an active duty recruiter you're interested in the Reserves, he'll try to push you into the SAM program (Sea-Air Mariner). It's a three year active duty commitment, followed by 5 years in the Reserves. It's not a bad deal, but most SAMs don't get the school of their choice. The recruiter will tell you "you can always strike for your rating later." This is bullshit. If you go in undesignated, with no school, it *will* hurt your future career. There are ways you can fix it, and I've known Master Chiefs and Warrant Officers who started out as undesignated strikers, but why put yourself on a harder road if you don't have to?
Lastly, get your friend to go with you to the recruiter's office. Make sure he doesn't identify himself as a reservist. There are two Navies, and they don't always play nicely with each other. Ideally, he should go with you in his working uniform and identify himself as Petty Officer So-and-so. The recruiters will treat you like a shipmate, and make sure you get the best schools possible. I've known guys who have gone in with a friend or family member in tow, and have gotten guaranteed A *and* C schools (basic, advanced, respectively). Just make sure it's all in your contract before you sign.
Oh, and don't believe the recruiter if he tells you you'll work 8-4 everyday. This might be true at some shore installations, but underway you'll be working 25 hours a day. You'll be bone tired, sea sick, home sick, will hate the food and the smell of the berthing. But it'll be the most rewarding thing you've ever done, and years later when your civilian coworkers find out you're a vet, you'll really appreciate the glow of admiration in their eyes.
God invented whiskey so the Irish would not rule the world.
One of the major problems is that IT/Computing decisions made by the DoD and government in general, are made by people with zero IT/Software/Computing experience. It's a marketing game and nothing more.
I joined the Army in 1988. At that time, I had already worked 2 years in IT for a consultant building PCs and servers and installing LANs. I had also taught myself Turbo Pascal and worked with 6 other people to write a BBS for the PC. So I joined the Army thinking I would get some great communications training working with satelites and computers.
Well, here is what happened. I left on Feb 1st. Basic Training was, well, physically hard but I made it through. Next, I go to AIT (Advanced Individual Training) at Fort Gordon, Ga. By week 3 of training, they had me take a test and quickly bumped me up to the last 4 weeks of training because I was correcting some of the instructors (and turned out to be right).
Having gotten done with AIT in 7 weeks instead of 6 months, I got to go to Airborne School and earn my jumpwings. So, there it was, Labor Day and I was showing up at Fort Bragg, NC assigned to the 82nd Airborne. They found out what I could do with computers and immediately sent me to headquarters. I ended up a database programmer for a year. I sat at a desk writing code for $15k a year while I had to work with (and often provide instruction to) government employees earning three or even five times as much.
Finally, in 1990, I got sent down to the 313th MI Bn and got to actually do stuff in the field that involved computers, radios, etc. with the intelligence guys and gals. Desert Storm was a hoot and I felt like I made a difference.
But when it came time to re-enlist, I realized that I had learned NOTHING in the Army that I had not: (1) brought in with me and (2) improved on my own by self-learning.
I left the military, got a civilian job and was soon making 4 times as much money and I never had to salute anyone. =)
If you know absolutely nothing about IT, you will learn something in the Army. You will also leave the military with some experience on your resume and possibly a security clearance (very valuable right now).
But since you are already reading Slashdot, there is probably nothing in terms of IT skills or money to be gained in the military (though I enjoy knowing that I can kill out to 200+ meters with almost any decent rifle with a good caliber).
That having been said, I still am proud that I helped pay for the price of Freedom in America (even if John Ashcroft is taking it away) and that I served something bigger than myself in my formative years. So while I learned very little in terms of IT, the experience I gained in life has been priceless.