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New BTX Form Factor Announced At IDF
xyote writes "A new motherboard form factor was announced at IDF today. See Google News for various press stories on it (how's that for up to date links?). Also, go here for the actual BTX specs."
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The specs pdf for those whose browser doesn't handle backslashes.
Well lets see, ATX is getting replaced by BTX, so if I remeber correctly from Kindergarten the next new technology will be CTX, DTX and ETX. I just love it when a plan comes together! (A-Team circa 1984).
Gotta love the acoustics of my motherboard. In fact, I do all of my home recording inside while sitting inside my PC box.
Maybe I'm just pessimistic, but does anyone want to take a stab at how long it takes for this to turn into a problem?
I remember seeing a WTX case from Addtronics. I thought that was the next standard.
The announcement of a 3.2GHz P4 with 2MB of cache targeted at gamers as reported by The Enquirer is more of an eye opener to me. The price tag will probable live up to the "Extreme" label tho, seems like they are affraid that the Athlon 64 will take away some of their "bleeding edge gotta have it" revenue.
So will other mobo makers follow intel footsteps and make up to this formfactor, or will they fork off to make their own FormFactors ? Does anyone see any of this happening and by whom ?
Didn't we have instant "off" capabilities back in the day of the 8086? Does anyone else miss the ability to push the power button and have their computer turn off now? With most modern BIOS's ignoring user settings for instant off, it really has to make me wonder about some of these new fangled "innovations".
The thing that makes me wonder though is this part
Just how are they going to avoid rebooting a computer if the power goes off? MRAM is set to debut, and this could in theory hold the users' data state, but you still have to boot the computer up through the normal BIOS process, or am I missing something?
That pdf is so slow Here is a mirror.
Much like a TV. That's what Intel/MS wants to do, make the PC into a "proper" consumer device.
Could read the article because it is slashdotted, but a replacement for atx is really needed.
At the time of introduction, atx was designed for CPUs with a power dissipation of 10-20W. The cpu socket was placed right under the power suply to cool the heatsink with the airflow of the PS fan.
Nowaday, 80W CPUs dont benefit from this closeness to another heatsource in the PC. ATX doesnt include anything that allows thermal coupling between board and case (think of audio amp heathsink) or air-tunnels to cool the cpu with air from outside the case.
Also, eATX boards are quite huge, to big for anything but server cases, but normal atx isnt quite big enough for dual cpu boards with dual channel RAM (or opteron with 4 channel ram).
HI O WISE PRINCE. WHT TOOK U SO DAM LONG?
Can't read the specs, they seem to be slashdotted, how did that happen... Of course, the main thing that happens when a new form factor comes out is that everybody who wants to upgrade their motherboard needs to upgrade their case as well which means a nice fat pay-cheque for the the beige box builders... That, more than any technical reason, will probably drive the uptake of BTX.
Well, in the 80's in Germany and Austria (maybe in other countries, too?) a system called BTX (Bildschirmtext, On-Screen Text) was introduced. You could call it an Interner-precursor, comparable to the French stuff (Minitel?).
;)
Anyway, here are the pics: BTX
Maybe we'll get the cool cases back
Yes.
(oh, and can they put the heavy power supply at the bottom of the case with the new design ... and the processor UNDER the expansion cards, and ... and ... mebbe something like the form factor that Apple are using for their G5)
There is a very good reason for putting the power supply at the top of the case. Hot air rises, and that's where the fan can be most effective as a vent fan. Also, the power supply puts out quite a bit of its own heat, which is better to have near the top of the case.
http://xkcd.com/386/
You know, it sounds remarkably like you want to stack your PC upside down, rather than go through the rigmarole of buying a whole new one. That might be just me, though...
"I Know You Are But What Am I?"
http://reptilian.net/BTX_Spec_1_0.pdf
http://web.newsguy.com/nstrom/BTX_Spec_1_0.pdf
is not another desktop form factor.
This is just a neato way to make your old case and PSU obsolete come next upgrade. Hooray!
At least BabyAT to ATX made some sense, in that it generally relocated the hotter CPUs next to PSU fans, etc...
What we need is a common laptop form factor. I want to be able to buy an empty laptop chassis/lcd, my own mobo, drive, etc, etc an put one together... While possible, its a major hoof in the noots right now. I want to build a laptop with a trackball and full sized keyboard and not one of those useless touchpads or thumbsticks. I dont care if it's 8 inches wider than Dells junk.
Etc etc
I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
Steadily decreasing box size, I smell a problem.
Wumpus
You mean like MicroATX, FlexATX, or even MiniITX?
The difference is the above ffs are all somewhat interchangable - you can stick a flexATX board in a full ATX tower with a 700 watt ATX PSU if you wanted to.
This is more like the switch from AT to ATX - new case, new PSU, etc..
I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
Yeah, but windows standby sucks, at least on 9x - probably more than half the time I've had to reboot 9x boxes on standby. And you have to do Start -> Shut Down -> Standby, instead of just tapping a button as you get up to leave. X does it right; fast, stable, and easy. BTW, Classic has supported Sleep since the first PPCs came out. Works OK, at least better than Win..
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored. - Aldous Huxley
PC's should get bigger, not smaller. We have plenty of space on our desktops, so I don't see why I should have to sacrifice speed for space.
What Intel should do is crank up CPU speeds to unreal heights - like 10 Ghz and put a monster cooling system on it. I don't mind if I have to plug the heat sink system into a separate outlet.
What Seagate should do is increase HD size to 100 terabytes and put a huge heat sink on that too. If I have to plug the hard drive and heat sink into separate outlets, that should be fine. I have plenty of free outlets on my power strip.
What NVidia should do is make a triple-slot GeForce FX2. Make it 10 times faster, with a huge huge heat sink fan that I can plug into another outlet.
With all this, I think the new PC form factor should be a cube, about 3 feet on all sides.
And yes, as mentioned else where, part of the reason for the new form factor is cooling concerns. Between the CPU and GPU on top end systems we're looking at 175+ watts. So we'll avoid things like my Lian-li P50 which is a great case but has the PSU way too close to the motherboard.
Call me silly, but I rather liked the VME and/or multi-bus for computers. [http://www.vita.com/vmefaq/index.html]
For those not familar, basicly you had a series of cards that you shoved directly into the case it self, without need of popping the top. Two thumbscrews for each card and it just slids on out. [http://www.vita.com/vmefaq/resources/Image2.gif]
There was no *motherboard* per say but rather a "cpu board" but basicly it was the same thing. While VME boards were "huge", I can imagine much in the way of scalability for a trimmed up variation of the theme. Small desktop systems can enjoy the benifits of having a smaller backplane with only 3 or 4 slots, more robust users could enjoy larger cases with just more slots but essentaly the same motherboard.
Silly idea, probally. It would produce less in the way of waste in every motherboard wouldn't need yet another slew of slots on it. Cards would be mounted at two points rather then one point without fear of one end poping up when you put the screw in like was an issue with AGP video cards.
There is no sanctuary. There is no sanctuary. SHUT UP! There is no shut up. There is no shut up.
Seeing as the BTX spec calls for a specific channel to the front of the case to allow air for cooling the CPU, I can already see the air conditioner + dryer vent hose into front of case mods. Also, the part of the spec which calls for a method to mount a device through the motherboard to the chassis, sort of like the original P4 heatsinks, is wonderful. It should be so much easier to design high performance, low noise coolers now.
ok, i understand the rational for moving the CPU, in fact i applaud it, get my 60W space heater out from behind large large chunk of hot metal we call the PSU. I know many cases now turn the PSU 90 degrees from the ATX spec and mount it above the CPU, but requring good air flow around the CPU is nice addition. but some things here make very little sense to me. Like the +12V connector, they've already moved to a 24 pin BTX connector, so it's not like like they need legacy support for ATX boards, so why not make the +12V CPU power source part of the BTX connector? do they enjoy adding pigtails to clutter the inside of my case? -12VDC? i'm all for ensureing legacy support, but seriously what was the last desktop device to need a -12VDC rail? I want innovation for the sake of doing things better, not for making me buy new stuff. Looks to me like BTX is far more 'time to buy a new case' than 'hey we cleaned up alot of the hacks in ATX and tossed out the stuff we don't need anymore.'
"We're going after you gnerds who think you can upgrade by just plugging a new CPU or memory stick into your existing MB instead of buying a whole new computer. Muahahahahahahaha!"
curious. after looking at the pdf from one of the mirrors, i wondered why the oddball metric measurements- and the answer is they're conversions from english. it's an even 10.5" deep, +/- .01". .25 millimeter.
all the other dimensions are based around english measurements, too, and have variances of 1/100 of an inch or
i presume this is for case compatibility, and existing case have slots that work out that way, too, so to avoid having to make a new case that replaces ATX, this is the compromise.
i wonder though- does this hurt manufacturing in the long run? is it harder for foreign factories to make something that fits *precisely* because of this? having spent much time over the years fighting to make things fit, especially cards, is it time to go to a more exact metric squaring?
or when manufacturing, does it really matter? is 266.7 mm just as easy to attain as 270?
some of you mechanical engineers, feel free to add.
stored on computers from birth to the grave
Man they must be joking the standard tower form, has space for 2 Optical Drives (I assume they mean 5 1/4), one Floppy and one hard disk! There isn't even a required gap, in front of the hard disk for a fan!
It may be great for the processor but it justs sucks for all the other hardware.
James
ATA100 is most certainly 100 megabytes/sec. Its a 50 MHz clock with a 2 byte wide lane (66 MHz for ATA133). And I believe most drives today can do a sustained write at 30-50 MBytes/sec (reads are even faster).
"The defense of freedom requires the advance of freedom" - George W Bush
I just looked at the nice picture in the pdf and I struck me that it seems that the board is mounted the other way around. Let me explain.
...
The expandable tower (which I'm sure will be 'expandable, making it where you can lt it grow upwards to make more room for optical/hard drives.) seems to be either upside down (someone mention the PSU beeing 'on the bottom' meaning that that image is upside down, and cd rom drives would be on the bottom. I doubt that, so I think we are supposed to be looking 'through' the case, e.g. we are looking through the motherboard. So systems would be 'the other way' around.
One big advantage I can see in that is that PCI and probably PCI-Express cards aren't mounted upside down anymore, e.g. with the chips up again, like back in the ISA days. I can see how that will affect thermal problems, as the old spec makes videocards hard(er) to cool.
Also what I miss is hard drive etc connectors on the layout. The old ATX spec did have recommandations for placement of such connecters, aswell as power connectors. I can imagine the power going between rear pannel and onder those 'bridging' chips, or maybe even squeese it between mem/real panel and the 12V connect going somewhere near the CPU (AMD doesn't use this approach does it? or is it even up to mobo designers to use the 12V rail instead of the allready loaded 5V rail. Then again, only thing nowadays really needing 12V are motors in PC's right?) but what about sata connectors? do they really suggest to have those run all accross the mobo? and floppy? not much squeesing left for that one, so is that gonna be under the cpu so it'll run over the CPU?
Agreed though that if you put a fan in fron (where it says chassis) you do have a nice airflow pathway, not cooling the I/O card slots aswell, but who needs those right? (also they don't get as ot except for video) So all in all it's kinda neat to see a maybe better designed standard. I think AMD boards will go with that standard aswell sooner or later, as it's kinda up to the motherboard designers. Anyway this was my rant : )
P.S. It's kinda strange that they still include the floppy disk, that one should have died a long time ago