Apple Releases Darwin 6.7, 6.8

Question by Znonymous+Coward · 2003-09-24 05:08 · Score: 2, Interesting

Is Darwin better than *BSD?

--

Karma: The shiznight, mostly because I am the Drizzle.

Re:Question by altp · 2003-09-24 05:12 · Score: 4, Insightful

Is Knoppix better than Redhat?

I think the question should be more about what you need rather than which is better.

Altp.
Re:Question by Elwood+P+Dowd · 2003-09-24 05:24 · Score: 4, Interesting

Is Darwin better than *BSD?

No. It's just a little different. It uses a different kernel. It has a different architecture for device drivers. It uses a NetInfo to store various configuration information.

It doesn't have FreeBSD Ports (a simple way for users and administrators to install applications). It's got it's own thing instead, which isn't as good (yet).

The reason I'd use BSD is for FreeBSD Ports, so I think the folks using Darwin are mostly just doing it since no one else is, and it's geeky.

It also makes sense if you're primarily interested in administering a MacOS X network, but I don't see why you wouldn't spend the cash on Mac OS X Server.

--

There are no trails. There are no trees out here.
Re:Question by geggibus · 2003-09-24 05:56 · Score: 5, Informative

It uses lookupd, which uses a set of software "agents" to get informations. There are agents for NetInfo, NIS, DNS, the files in /etc (Flatfiles), LDAP and internal cache agent.

NetInfo is usually the first place to look for things(after the cache..)

(if i understand this correctly)
Re:Question by hraefn · 2003-09-24 06:15 · Score: 4, Insightful

It also makes sense if you're primarily interested in administering a MacOS X network, but I don't see why you wouldn't spend the cash on Mac OS X Server.

It makes sense if you have an old PC lying around...
Re:Question by mtalbot · 2003-09-24 07:53 · Score: 5, Informative

BSD Ports for Mac OS X (and Darwin) can be found here: http://www.opendarwin.org/projects/darwinports/
Re:Question by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-26 05:18 · Score: 0

Is Darwin better than *BSD?

Yes, in every way imagineable.

10.2.8 by nocomment · 2003-09-24 05:24 · Score: 3, Funny

But, will your ethernet stop working if you use it?

--
/* oops I accidentally made a comment, sorry */
/* http://allyourbasearebelongto.us */

Re:10.2.8 by wonkamaster · 2003-09-24 05:49 · Score: 5, Funny

But, will your ethernet stop working if you use it?

That explains the lack of comments!
Re:10.2.8 by Paradise+Pete · 2003-09-24 10:49 · Score: 2, Funny

I thought the whole purpose of the darwin project was to get most of their OS developed at no cost. Then they can sell it back to the people who wrote it for them.
Well if they wrote it for them, then they'd already have it. And have the right to do whatever they wanted with it, including the parts Apple wrote. I don't quite see why this is bad. Perhaps you could elaborate.
Re:10.2.8 by MoneyT · 2003-09-25 01:11 · Score: 1

Ok, maybe I didn't make myself clear enough. If you develop code for a company for free, you have a copy of that code on your computer. If the company takes your freely developed code (which you already have on your computer) and puts it in a nice pretty package a you buy it, that would make you a moron for paying for what you already own.

OTOH, if you feel that the modifications that the company has made to your code, or the ad-on features are stuff you didn't want to cade but you wanted to have, and you feel the price the company is charging is worth paying for those features, then you paid for the features and not the code you already wrote.

--
T Money
World Domination with a plastic spoon since 1984
Re:10.2.8 by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-25 04:42 · Score: 0

You write an app, package, whatever for the Darwin project. Apple includes this app, package, whatever into their OS. You pay for this OS, either by buying a computer from them, or purchasing the OS or an upgrade. You have just bought what you wrote and already have.
Re:10.2.8 by commodoresloat · 2003-09-25 13:02 · Score: 1

I see you have not yet been modded troll. I find this odd, because I thought the whole purpose of your post was to get people to respond as if you were serious. Then you can waste the time of the people who actually care about the topic. Trolls are ridiculous after all.

10.2.8 by GoRK · 2003-09-24 05:25 · Score: 3, Funny

Perhaps they are trying to get the public to fix the 10.2.8 problems that led them to pulling the upgrade :)

Not exactly news by babbage · 2003-09-24 05:34 · Score: 4, Insightful

The recent botched 10.2.8 updated included a kernel upgrade, from Darwin 6.6 to Darwin 6.8. So while the news here is that the kernel update is, apparently, available as an independent download, the question remains whether or not this kernel release had anything to do with the problems people are having with 10.2.8.

Obviously there have been questions about the updated ethernet drivers, but because so many things changed with the 10.2.8 release, and because the bug reports have been so varied, it's hard to know if the new kernel is buggy, and it's easy to suspect that the ethernet driver may not have been the only component at fault.

It's nice to see that Slashdot has picked up a story that MacSlash ran a day or two ago, but I for one am more interested in hearing about a fix for the damage that 10.2.8 brought with it for many people. When are we going to get a patch for that?

--
DO NOT LEAVE IT IS NOT REAL

Re:Not exactly news by ZackSchil · 2003-09-24 06:36 · Score: 0

Don't make a topic joking about the flaws in 10.2.8 carrying over to Darwin though, then you might have you post modded as a troll!
re: not exactly news by dwightk · 2003-09-25 01:06 · Score: 3, Informative

I don't think there is anything wrong with the kernel... I did the update, and everything works fine... it sounds like some kernel extensions were messed up...

--
Like anyone can even know that

Re:Today I spent the good part of five hours.... by Arielholic · 2003-09-24 05:35 · Score: 0, Offtopic

Not only that, he already posted the exact same story twice in other comments belonging to other stories.

(bweurgh, damned slashdot search function won't let me find them)

Re:Today I spent the good part of five hours.... by Arielholic · 2003-09-24 05:37 · Score: 0, Offtopic

(reply to self:)

At least here's one of them: http://apple.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=79362&ci d=7021925

Already Upgraded by billatq · 2003-09-24 06:03 · Score: 4, Informative

I've already checked out the source and updated to the new kernel and it seems to run fine (I wanted to apply the nosleep patch on the KisMac web page so that I can run it with the lid closed for short periods of time). Of course, I have an iBook, so I'm probably not affected by the ethernet problem screwing up some of the other models. I'm happy that nothing like Cisco VPN magically became broken in this release also.

In other news... by ZackSchil · 2003-09-24 06:08 · Score: 5, Funny

Darwin 6.8 sequesters all available computing power and peripherals, sets fire to your house, kills you and you family, and on certain machines disables the ethernet port. Users in Soviet Russia, however, appear to be afflicted with amusing juxtapositions of the aforementioned flaws.

Re:In other news... by ZackSchil · 2003-09-24 06:58 · Score: 0, Offtopic

Depending on how all those MMORPG cases turn out, I think I might sue the mods here for THEFT OF KARMA. Had I given it out in a troll, that would have been one thing. I didn't, it was a joke. Chill back.
Re:In other news... by Paradise+Pete · 2003-09-24 11:25 · Score: 1, Offtopic

I think you got a raw deal there, ZackSchil. Amusing and articulate, but apparently too complex for the moderator to properly parse during his three second attention span.
Re:In other news... by momerath2003 · 2003-09-24 16:09 · Score: 1

Agreed. To make things more obvious to the moderators, try adding line breaks towards the end, and adding a smiley/winky emoticon always helps. Well, mostly. ;-)

BTW, it's too bad that my last mod point just expired. Otherwise I would have helped the poor lad out.

--
I had but a simple dream, to destroy all humans.
Re:In other news... by inertia187 · 2003-09-25 14:08 · Score: 1

I just say, "Umkay?" Works every time. Umkay?

--
A programmer is a machine for converting coffee into code.

Does not compute. by belbo · 2003-09-24 06:15 · Score: 1

In an ongoing effort to keep the FreeBSD core of OS X open source, Apple has updated Darwin to 6.7 and 6.8, which corresponds to the OS X 10.2.7 and 10.2.8 updates, respectively.

So, when they don't update it, it would become closed somehow? I don't get it.

--

--
"Just believe everything I tell you, and it will all be very, very simple."

Re:Does not compute. by FredFnord · 2003-09-24 06:39 · Score: 3, Interesting

> So, when they don't update it, it would become closed somehow? I don't get it.

When they don't update darwin to match the updates in MacOS X, the FreeBSD core of (the current release of) MacOS X isn't open source.

Even for an annoying nitpicker like me, that was a perfectly reasonable sentence.

-fred

--
Sign #11 of Slashdot overdose: You see the phrase 'moderate Republican' and you wonder if that would be a +1 or a -1.

"17 Meg file" may become a piece of Slash lore by KH2002 · 2003-09-24 06:47 · Score: 1

I've seen this so many times already. What a troll...

Re:"17 Meg file" may become a piece of Slash lore by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-25 11:07 · Score: 0

I love this troll. I wish there were a filter for just troll comments. That's always my favorite thing to read.

Re:Friends?? by piecewise · 2003-09-24 07:10 · Score: 4, Insightful

Just so you're aware -- which you're apparently not -- Apple is a section of Slash. apple.slashdot.org. Therefore, here, you'll read a lot about Apple - something you don't seem too interested in.

It's very newsworthy among the Unix/apple community that Darwin's been changed.

If you're interested in Domino and ORacle AS, there are appropriate places to go for that.

Thanks.

--
The next comment I write will be ready soon, but subscribers can beat the rush and see it early!

Following Darwin by jollygreengiantlikes · 2003-09-24 08:13 · Score: 2, Interesting

Has anyone been following the source's development closely-eg: what updates beyond the security fixes were included in the kernel?
There had purportedly been a memory leak in 10.2.6 (corresponding to Darwin 6.6)-any confirmation of that or a possible fix in these lastest versions of Darwin?

JGG

Re: Humor is appreciated. by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-24 10:04 · Score: 0

Hey, I thought it was funny. Chico, don't be discouraged. . .

Lookupd slowness by macdaddy · 2003-09-24 13:58 · Score: 1

This is veering off-topic but since you brought up Lookupd and the previous poster brought up NetInfo I thought I'd ask anyways. Has anyone else noticed lengthy delays when doing things like sshing or ftping to another host. The delays I'm seeing on all the OS X boxes I've used are anywhere from 4-8 seconds of unexplicable delay between issuing the command network access (checked with a sniffer on the receiving end). The same delay is also done in return when, for example, you ssh or ftp to an OS X box. The only explanation I can think of is that some unusual lookups are slowing things down. Can anyone else confirm this?

Re:Lookupd slowness by geggibus · 2003-09-24 20:01 · Score: 2, Informative

This might help you..

lookupd -configuration (shows current config)
lookupd -d (interactive mode)
man lookupd (No comments.. ;)

The lookupd config files/netinfo data does not exist(?) afaik. So you will have to create them yourself in order to change the lookup order.
Re:Lookupd slowness by sld126 · 2003-09-25 00:20 · Score: 2, Informative

Make sure forward & reverse DNS are working correctly. If not, this will cause OS X to pause, I guess while it considers its options.

--
You're just jealous because the voices only talk to me.
Re:Lookupd slowness by NightSpots · 2003-09-28 02:50 · Score: 1

The pause is the two second DNS query timeout.

It makes two-three queries -> four to six seconds.

It's very common. Fix it by either fixing DNS, or creating a complete hosts file.

At one point, I was asked by an employer to create a 500 line hosts file nightly via DNS, and then push it out to all the boxes. If we ever lost DNS (it happened once), those 500 boxes wouldn't be hosed until DNS came back up. The one time DNS died, it worked remarkably well. It's actually not a horrible idea.

--

--
Use Vobbo for Video Blogs

Re:What ticks me off. by StarmanDeluxe · 2003-09-24 15:09 · Score: 4, Funny

That might be because you have to compile it first, using a compiler that will work with PowerPC code (easiest way, of course, is to compile on a mac). *coughdoltcough*

no problem here . . . mostly by bodrell · 2003-09-25 04:07 · Score: 1

On occasion I've experienced a delay when I ssh to a server in Ann Arbor (I'm in Oregon), but that usually happens only when the internet has just been connected (after I've rebooted my flaky DSL router) or after a fresh boot, and sometimes after my Powerbook wakes up from a long nap. But at all other times, no problem. But I'm not running any unusual daemons in the background, and my box is not setup to ssh into.

I'd like to segue from that into asking if anyone knows whether it's possible to set up the ssh daemon so I can remotely login to my box (that seems not an apt term for a notebook--perhaps "tray"?) keeping in mind I'm behind the DSL router. Is having a static IP important? I rarely reboot, so I imagine the IP would stay put until I do. This is an area with which I'm not familiar. Anyone have a FAQ which addresses the router problem?

--
Si la vida me da palo, yo la voy a soportar Si la vida me da palo, yo la voy a espabilar

Re:no problem here . . . mostly by Myxorg · 2003-09-25 09:24 · Score: 1

you need to set your router to forward the ssh port (23 I think) to your machine. to configure the router just put the router address into your browser(you can find the router address in the network control panel).

To be able to find your computer try dyndns.org. they offer your own domain name like mysite.dyndns.org, and they have a client that will update your domain with your ip address periodically , this works great if your ip changes a lot.

This is just off the top of my head, so google around if you want. Also try macosxhints.com, they have a lot of really good advice about advanced stuff that is mac specific.
Re:no problem here . . . mostly by macdaddy · 2003-09-25 10:41 · Score: 1

22
Re:no problem here . . . mostly by macdaddy · 2003-09-25 10:43 · Score: 1

In my first 2 cases the machines were statically assigned nodes on (at the time) my campus LAN. I'm also seeing it on a dynamically assigned dialup box (faster CPU too). It's very odd.

DarwinPorts is different (Re:Question) by ThreeFarthingStone · 2003-09-25 09:23 · Score: 1

DarwinPorts is TCL-based, just as Gentoo Portage is Python-based, so neither of these are really BSD Ports. For a real BSD Ports, the system must be based on Makefiles, not Portfiles or ebuilds.

The NetBSD Packages Collection "pkgsrc" claims it can run on Darwin because it is cross-platform. It is based on Makefiles. However, I don't know how well it works on Darwin.

--
==========
There are two types of people: those who are in the world, and those who aren't.

Nice work, Slashdot. by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-25 09:32 · Score: 0

You're a day late and a dollar short yet again.

This story ran on MacSlash a day earlier. It also looks like the person who submitted this story plagiarized the submitter's blurb from MacSlash.

For shame, Pudge.

as the dust settles... by ansleybean · 2003-09-25 16:48 · Score: 1

it seems that all that was royally messed up was that ethernet driver. most of the other problems seem to be the ones that always seem to crop up that don't make any sense ("i installed the update, and the left half of my monitor caught fire. i repaired permissions, rebooted, deleted safari's cache files, and the fire went out.")

10.1.5 and latest darwin kernel by mmphosis · 2003-09-25 18:13 · Score: 1

Okay, I admit i am just way too cheap to upgrade. US$129 to upgrade to 10.2.x no thanks.

Is it possible to compile the latest darwin kernel and use it with 10.1.5?

I see bomb boxes

Re:10.1.5 and latest darwin kernel by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-25 21:49 · Score: 0

Get it from a reseller, they usually have it cheaper.

Nowadays I've seen it going for $79US in some places.

As for me, I've been running it since August 2002. That's when I and everyone I know warezed it
Re:10.1.5 and latest darwin kernel by Englabenny · 2003-09-28 10:32 · Score: 1

NO

Re:I HATE MACS by OsamaBinLogin · 2003-09-27 07:25 · Score: 2, Informative

RTFM.

I recently opened up my TiBook to check out the AirPort card. The instructions (which you obviously didn't read) were still kicking around from last year when I installed it. Nice drawings, good tech artists.

Turn upside down. You remove the battery and 8 screws. Do not remove the keyboard or any drives. One small philips screwdriver should do it. Slide case, and off. Then it's right there, next to the battery well - a dedicated PCMCIA slot next to the real PCMCIA slot. You plug it in, connect the antenna connector, and that's it.

Then you boot up and it's working off the shelf, no config, no messing around, integrated into the OS, better than IE is integrated into Windows. :-) And you can stick your laptop into your backpack without snapping off the antenna, cuz it's wrapped around the display. (Truth be known, reception is weak that way. Need an antenna plug, that's what it needs.)

I could see that, if you removed the optical and hard disks, and snipped and filed away at stuff, you'd be pissed. For myself, I swore off doing installs while wasted, specifically for that reason.

--
Marketing-driven companies end up over-marketing their products. Engineering-driven companies end up over-engineering

Slashdot Mirror

Apple Releases Darwin 6.7, 6.8

72 comments