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How Do Managers Rate On-line Universities?
pstreck asks: "I've been going to a traditional university part-time for a couple of years now and am finding the pace slow, and classes to be at inconvenient times. So I have been considering transferring to one of the on-line universities like ACCIS or the University of Phoenix. How do you managers look upon a degree from one of these universities?"
Unless you are looking for a job that requires a Masters or Ph. D. most managers just appreciate the fact that you took the time to go to school. Having a degree demonstrates to them that you can be taught and are willing to learn. Most of the time, where it comes from isn't a critical factor.
~.Evanrude
The cool part was that when I went to interview for jobs, I had a lot of knowledge on varying subjects in the interview. The interviewers either didn't ask where that information came from or were impressed that I had gained that information from my own personal studies.
Sure, you can probably rush yourself through an online U faster than brick and mortar, but in my case I was better suited to take my time in school and use all of the slow time to expand the breadth of my knowledge.
Just because you didn't learn it by getting a sore rear end in a classroom doesn't mean you can't put it on a resume.
UOP claims that you dont have to spend much time on HomeWork, or in Class. It is for people with Busy Schedules.
I didnt know learning was so easy. If you want to learn something, you have to make sacrifice. I remember when I was in school for Computer Science, I spent close to 40+ hours/week for my final project and classes.
I understand that people who have fill-time jobs, and families dont have that kind of time, but as i said earlier, learning requires sacrifice. If you dont have time to take 2-3 classes, just take 1 class/semester at a regular uni.
Consensus is good, but informed dictatorship is better
Hello Bob. I hear that you graduated from Harvard/Berkley/MIT/UVA, that's great!
or
Hello Bob. I hear that you graduated from the University of Phoenix online school. Tell me about that. Zzzzzz
Let's face it: *learning takes time*. Is UoP a diploma mill? Probably not. I'd rate a CS degree from UoP somewhere under an MIS degree from a small state college.
Currently, I am a project manager and I do not care if you have a degree or not, only if you can actually do what is required for the job. If you are going to define success in education as a degree, then you should graduate from the most impressive University you can. However, in hiring for projects Cert's mean more than a degree. They are tangable and directly apply to the job. I have found that people who invest the time in their education are the same people who will invest the time necessary to learn and complete the tasks assigned to them. But, you can get more milage from attending classroom training on relevant topics than on a degree. It may not be the best thing in the long term, but to get a job today, you must have something that separates you from the rest of the resumes. Just my .02
-- Andy
If the manager is looking to sign off on a checklist (position foo needs a masters or higher degree in bar), then online "universities" are wonderful -- they'll give you a piece of paper which allows you to claim that qualification.
If the manager -- or anyone else -- is actually looking for the degree as a sign that you are qualified for a position, having a "degree" from such an institution is only going to hurt you, because it shows that you look for the cheapest and easiest way of getting a piece of paper rather than looking to obtain a real qualification.
You know what people say about MSCEs? This is the academic equivalent.
Tarsnap: Online backups for the truly paranoid
That depends on how much the university cost. I would be more willing to take seriously an online degree that took a couple years and several thousands of dollars to complete then a quickie diploma that cost a couple hundred bucks.
I've hit Karma 50 and gotten a Score:5, Troll... I win!
There is a list of accreditors recognized by the U.S. Department of Education--make sure your school's accreditor is on it, and verify with that accreditor that the it accredits the school--before you spend your first dime.
Also, even though the Distance Education and Training Council (through which AACIS now has accredidation) is a recognized accreditor, a degree earned from an insitution accredided by it will not be as well regarded as one from a school with regional accredidation.
One CPU cycle wasted on digital restrictions management is ONE TOO MANY.
If you dont have time to take 2-3 classes, just take 1 class/semester at a regular uni.
I don't think it's just a matter of having the time to go to class. When I was in school full-time, it seemed like the majority of the work was really on my own time anyway, and that most of the actual courses were extremely slow-paced. Even when the teachers could manage lectures in a fairly quick time and let people go once all of the questions were answered, the time between classes and the frequency (ie 2 or 3 times a week) often meant that the pace was extremely slow. The only time the pace was ever beneficial was when the homework was significant and time-consuming.
In one particular case, I had a pascal course in which the majority of the projects were given to everyone ahead of time. Within 2 weeks with very little out-of-class work I had completed most of the work for the semester (it helped that I could apply my knowledge of C to Pascal fairly easily after the first day of lecture with only a few concepts needing to be looked up/checked in the book from time to time).
The only classes that ever seemed to make sense in this time frame were history courses, or other courses where the majority of the work involved extremely large reading assignments (of course, since I'm a slow reader, that could just be me).
A good school teaches you how to learn, especially in computer science. My dad has a certificate in CS and very little of what was required to get that certificate is even taught today, but because he knows how to do research and teach himself just about anything (in fact, he only got the certificate to prove a point) he can still do as well in the field as people with a more recent education at a higher level.
On the other hand, while a good school teaches you to learn, most of the online and other quick degree programs are tailored to stuff information into your head rather than teaching you to learn. Places that offer courses for most of the IT certifications are often like this, especially because they can get you to keep coming back for all of the other certifications if you never learn how to study for them on your own.
-PainKilleR-[CE]
I don't doubt that you can learn more quicker from an online course. The idea that everyone needs to be stuffed up in an auditorium with a lecturer droning on and on to learn anything is as dated as oil-lamps. Real learning isn't achieved by passively sitting back and barely making it through lectures awake. Real learning is done by actively pursuing information that you think is useful and interesting. I learned more about economics in the week it took me to read Human Action than in the 6 weeks it took me to complete a boring and useless introductory economics course at the University of Rochester. Real learning is done by actually thinking about things, not slavish memorization (though memorization is important).
So, basically, I think the idea that online courses aren't as good as live courses is bullshit. If anything, online courses weed out those who can't hack it better, because with an online course, you are completely responsible for taking the initiative. It's very easy to just not do the necessary work when you can schedule it for anytime you want. Quite frankly, I think employers should be impressed by those who set aside their "leisure time" away from work to actually learn something.
Of course, what impresses individual employers will vary. However, a piece of paper from Harvard is just that -- a piece of paper from Harvard. It doesn't prove that you can hack it anywhere. On the other hand, someone without any little certificate may be able to hack it anywhere he pleases; you may have to volunteer to work on a trial basis for free for a week or two, though. Sufficed to say, if you have the knowledge, talent, and work-ethic, employers will recognize that.
social sciences can never use experience to verify their statemen
And please don't flame me with how oUOP saved your life or something like that. The horror stories that I have heard about administrators, instructors and staff leave me amazed that someone hasn't sued them into bankrupcy yet. I wish I could share the stories themselves, but that might get someone I know fired (not a good thing). Lets just say that they can be considered the McDonalds of education, in my opinion.
I think it says something about how we as Americans perceive education when we have to look at it from the viewpoint of "Can I get a job with this?". Education is it's own reward, in that it gives you options in life, not just the workplace.
Least that's what I think. Personally, with s omuch of America's workforce working 50-60 hours a week (at least us IT types), it can be an impossibility to go get a post-graduate degree. I hope the idea of online coursework becomes more prevalent for this reason. It will give those of us with the will but not hte time the chance.
El riesgo vive siempre!
I have forked over a shitload of my hard earned American dollars to bullshit online courses. I speak with authorita.
The thing is, if you give two shits about your learning, save your money and go to a Real school with Real teachers. If you want to get knuckled fucked, don't give a flying fuck about learning anything, and have incredible self-dicipline, then maybe check this crap out.
Crap is being nice too.
Here's how it works: you pay lots of money and don't learn a fucking thing that you can't teach yourself. If Learning to you means reading out of a book and typing answers into a form on a web page, then by all means bend over and lube up -- because this is your ideal education.
Online education flies in the face of thousands of years dating back to the fucking greeks where education is done in a classroom, with interaction, with a learned instructor (usually). There's give and take.
It's a fucking joke and a phony and a fraud, all this online shit.
If two people, with equal credentials, came to me and wanted a job but one had a Real degree and the other some online bullshit degree, the decision is simple.
While I agree with most of what you've said, I have to state that in my experience, knowing how to learn doesn't amount to a hill of beans in an interview. Most of the interviews that I've been through can be summed up as, I don't care if you can learn, if you don't already have the skills to complete this required task within X amount of time so that I can then dispose of you, you are waisting my time. Some interviews have been less direct, some have been more direct.
'And all the monkeys aren't in the zoo Every day you meet quite a few...'
UOP claims that you dont have to spend much time on HomeWork or in Class.
Having attended the local UOP classes and now being a UOP Online attendee, I can tell you that there are stark differences between the two. I found that the UOP standard classes were, IMHO, about equivelent to the local community college (which I also attended for a semester). There was a reasonable amount of homework and if you failed to achieve the minimum requirements that a college would expect of a student, most of the professors would reflect that in your grade.
The online university was quite different. The first thing I realized was that it was the first time in a university setting that I actually learned something.
You have to realize that the people in most of your classes are presently employed doing the things that you are learning. Because of the participation requirements, you learn far more from the students themselves than you ever learn from a university class at an undergrad level.
An outline of the typical class goes as follows: Each week you are given 3-4 questions about the reading/lecture that you must answer (different requirements per class on what constitutes an answer but usually a 100/200 or so word essay style question is asked). In addition to answering the questions, you are expected to post well-thought-out replies to the answers of other class mates (typically minimum 3 reponses per day for 5 days out of the week). This is your participation grade. In addition to that grade, you receive a grade on written assignments (usually 2/3 per week depending on the class, content, and professor).
Then comes the group project that starts in week 2. You are given a major project that you must complete in a group setting with 3-4 other students. The projects range from introducing 2/3 more written assignments per week to just a single large (report style) project you have to complete at the end of the class.
I was very surprised at the extent of work each class required. Now, of course, there are professors who will let you get away with doing next-to-nothing, who relax the participation restrictions (including one who didn't get the notice that I dropped his class and gave me a full passing grade in week 3...even though I had done none of the work) But you get that kind of crap in the university setting. The things I didn't get in the university setting was a group of professors with Master's degrees who had been working in the field (after degree completion) for at least 2 years. It's amazing going to a computer class being taught by someone who is presently employed in the field talking about the *real world*, not some BS set of concepts that programming instructors teach that when you get to the "First Job" you realize are done completely differently.
And I'll tell you, if you're aiming for a 4.0 in the class, you spend an hour or two per day just doing your participation requirements. You also dread landing a class where there are too few or too many students (too few means you can't come up with posts to make your participation grade, too many means you spend two hours reading through replies).
"God is dead!" - Nietzsche
"Nietzsche is dead!" - God
As the use SPAM as part of their advertising (well U of P does anyhow).
:-(
Also one of the traditional UK Uni's (Liverpool) are using this route too. Not impressed
I knew a girl who was taking chemistry and had some hands-on experience with her professor. Needless to say, she was expelled and the professor fired (he wasn't tenured).
"The evil of the world is made possible by nothing but the sanction you give it." -- Ayn Rand
Though I realize the humorous intent of your comment, if two consenting adults want to sleep together, they should be able to. A rational university would mandate that the professor defer that student's grading to another teacher. Of course, as an anarcho-capitalist, I believe universities should be allowed to have whatever backwards rules they want.
social sciences can never use experience to verify their statemen
When my Dad is hiring for his company, he said that if he has two applicants, one from community college and one from an online University, he would hire the community college student if both applicants abilities were equal.
I agree on that point.
On the other hand, almost every project I've worked on has required a significant amount of ramp-up time to get familiar with the specifics peculiar to that project. Although most of my work so far has had significant overlap, there's always been a lot of new ground to cover before real work starts.
That being said, the position I was originally hired for is nothing like what I'm doing now (they were basically hiring anyone that could do some moderate lifting and follow directions to do POP site installations, now I'm writing software). They also have us update our resumes regularly because they put them on contract bids to meet those types of specific task points (ie worked on X equipment for X amount of time). Maybe the simple point that I work for a division that does mostly contract work makes learning and diversity in skills more important than specific skillsets, but in the end someone has to meet the skill points to get the contracts (and they'll often send people to school to meet those skill points if they have time, or hire accordingly).
-PainKilleR-[CE]
Many people have mentioned being managers and only caring if the job gets done. Which is what I think most managers really care about. Except when it comes down to it, you will never get the opportunity to show you can do the job unless something about your resume or background strikes them are particularly applicable.
My boss has an MBA from U of M. One of his profs said that it doesn't matter which school you go to in terms of what you learn. Instead you pay for the school with the most strict admissions. Potential employers know a rigorous school such as U of M B-school, Harvard, Yale, etc will have a much larger expenditure on their admissions dept. Phoenix U will take anyone with the money. Yale will only take you if you meet their stringent requirements and have the money.
Might as well pay for the best label. Not too mention, a number of respectable schools have online course structures.
Although you might not be a better person for going to a given school, if the guy thinking about hiring you is impressed, it will be worth the extra time/hassle/money.
Most "hands on" contact in classes consists of the professor droning on and on. You can get more from reading a book, and do so in a quicker period of time. As for actual discourse, that can also occur at a distance online, most likely more efficiently and better so than in person (have you noticed that people tend to write more coherently than they speak).
social sciences can never use experience to verify their statemen
A lot of "real" colleges and universities are making more and more stuff available via distance/online education programs these days, as well. So maybe you can get a degree from a school that'll make the PHB's happy, while not having to spend too much time on campus.
I know someone who used to be an academic couselor at U of P. He said the problem was the school was for profit, and that they are only interested in pushing through as many students as possible.
Another guy I know taught for them online before recently taking a brick and mortar lecturer position at a a local private university. He was appalled by the poor curriculum, lack of homework, and emphasis on simple group projects. Stay at a real school.
yeah.
if you want a piece of paper. Go to a real university. You can make new friends generate new ideas etc. Maybe you will like their other schools and transfer over to something entirely different. Don't forget the opposite sex either........
Well, I have a wife, and two kids. If I want to learn something, I'll do it on my own. School (which I am thinking of doing quite seriously) is to get a piece of paper to further my employability.
Yes, I'd look at it a bit differently if I was single, especially if I was young.
Plato seems wrong to me today
Very interesting comments. I just started at UoP -- my 2nd class started last night. I have been considering switching to the all-online version due to travel requirements for work, the slow pace of the classroom, etc.
.DOC format, etc.). For example, it appears to me that you *have* to use Outlook to participate in these online classes. Is that true -- some sort of custom Outlook plugin/extension? -- or will any mail/news reader work?
One thing I'm [f|c]urious about is the Microsoft requirements/bias throughout the UoP classes and websites (have to use Powerpoint to do your presentations and interact with the SmartBoards, stuff distributed in
2 hours a day reading posts....
Why does that sound so familiar?
Before I part with'em: two pennies weigh ~4.996+/-0.014g, have a zinc core, and the face of Lincoln. You can keep 'em.
You can work and go to school at the same time. I'd venture to guess over 50% of people in school work.
I took 5 years to graduate with degrees in MIS and Finance. I also have a minor in French (you need ~130 hours to graduate, I had 183 at graduation). The entire time I worked 35-40 hours a week waiting tables and made more than enough to live on (btw Oklahomans tip like shit). It can be done, you just have to do it. This is how I got my first job. My GPA sucked (2.97 Overall) but when you list outside activities that you've done in college that closely match the field you are going into, you show you supported yourself through working, and you have a diverse knowledgebase. You get a job. Granted I graduated in 98 and had all my job offers in 97 (timing is important as well).
In an instant gratification society, UoP is right up the typical Americans alley. Excuses instead of action.
Thank god for the typical people, otherwise I'd have to work significantly harder to succeed.
I just finished a degree completion program at American Intercontinental University and I would recommend it to anyone considering UOP. They were roughly the same price, but I got my BS in Info Technology in just 13 months, and UOP wanted over 2 years. The coursework was relatively fresh, including Windows2000, Redhat 7.3, Java, Oracle 8i, etc.
Two thumbs up, and nobody seems to care what school name is on the degree. I really think that matters more for advanced degrees.
You may also want to take a look at University of Waterloo. It has an excellent distance program too, and it is also a prestigious institution.
Finally, if UoL and UoW are not on your short list, check out this awesome list of accredited distance education schools.
I was in a situation similar to yours and I didn't want to waste time and money on a bullshit degree. I ultimately went with University of London because of reasonable cost and I'm a good self-studier.
... for the I.T. division of a 1200-employee state govt agency, I have the exact same opinion. I do not have much faith in any "online degree", not even from UoP. I give more weight to a 2-yr associate degree from the local junior college than I would to a 4-yr bachelors degree from any online school. I just don't consider them to be real degrees. Part of what going thru a real 4-yr school proves (...arguably a *great deal* of what it proves...) is not so much that you learned the course material and have a well-rounded education, but also that you can put up with and tolerate a lot of bullcrap thrown at you just for the sake of having to deal with a bunch of useless bullcrap, and that you've got the mental stamina to see it thru and not become a washout by the process. Back when I was in college, I thought I was wasting the best years of my youth having to do all the make-busy work and rote-memorization crap of classwork handed out by all my professors when I could have been learning greater things with hands-on research and labwork. And if you want to come to work for a govt organization like mine, trust me, you'll need to show that you're made of the right stuff to be able to handle lots of bullcrap coming down from above, without letting it "get to you". And furthermore, I made it thru a real university and got my degree, so I expect the same from my applicants... and since I'm the hiring manager, you've got to get past me to get the job :-)
4:30pm on a Friday afternoon... you're tax dollars at work, reading Slashdot, LoL!.
I will appreciate the fact that a working adult spent the time and effort to get a degree. But, having attended the University of Phoenix for two years, I can confidently assert that the education received there is useless and that a resume that comes across my desk had better impress me with a lot else besides educational background.
This topic is still young and already I see a bunch of posts along the lines of "it doesn't matter where you went, 'cause it impresses the manager that you went anywhere." C'mon, people; instead of sounding clueless, why not ask someone who actually hires people? We do care about trivialities like which institution issues the degree in question. Don't do anyone else the disservice of mouthing platitudes.
I will respect heaps more someone who slogged through getting a real education at a real university more than someone who attended classes online. Or, more accurately, I will better respect the education of the former. The latter is probably someone (like me) who was taken in by the ads and didn't realize until years of commitment later how useless UoP really is.
I've made comments about Phoenix previously on /. Anyone curious can look them up. You learn more, theoretical and practical, at a five month technical institution than at UoP.
I had an argument...with the person here at the university that teaches OS design. I wonder when I'll learn --Linus
Except, run them off, of course.
[
The MS Requirements are buried all throughout their program. Almost as if MS gave them a grant to require them to use their technology. For a while they were using online books which were available in PDF for MS-Reader format (I'm personally surprised it wasn't all MS reader).
It's the biggest drawback of their program, really. I tried to us Mozilla's Mail/News reader but I had trouble configuring it to use the Secure Password Authentication system they were using. I didn't spend much time on getting it to function simply because I have windows workstations here that work well enough for the task. And it's OE not Outlook (even better, right?).
Beyond that, most of the classes I have taken don't advertise for MS. In fact, the operating system class that I took we were required to do an evaluation of Linux vs. Unix vs. MS environments. We spent a great deal of time discussing each of the pro's/cons. The class itself is one of the reasons that I chose to look deeper into Linux (I'm a *gasp* windows admin).
The professors, like I mentioned before, are real-world. Right now, Linux is a big part of the "real world" if for no other reason than the fact that most companies are trying to reduce costs of licensing (Hey, at least it got their foot in the door).
"God is dead!" - Nietzsche
"Nietzsche is dead!" - God
I have to state that in my experience, knowing how to learn doesn't amount to a hill of beans in an interview. Most of the interviews that I've been through can be summed up as, I don't care if you can learn, if you don't already have the skills to complete this required task within X amount of time so that I can then dispose of you, you are waisting my time.
:-)
:-)
That may be true in some (maybe even most) cases, but as they say, the exception makes the rule... In my own case, when I was hired for my present job, I had no professional programming experience, and was still 3 classes shy of finishing my A.S. in Computer Programming from the local community college. I got the job anyway, and later on the manager that hired me made a point of say something like:
"The reason I hired you was because it was obvious that you were a self-starter and a motivated learner."
What gave him that idea? Probably the fact that I answer half his questions (Do you know COM? What about Rexx? What about ADO? What about Linux? OS/2?, etc....) with "I'm not an expert, but I have a couple of books on the subject, and I've been learning it in my spare time" or something to that effect. And no, I wasn't lying either...
Anyway, the point is, some manager ARE more interested in hiring somebody they feel can learn on the job, and will be impressed by qualities like "self-starter" and "motivated learner."
Of course, in my case I was being hired for an entry-level position, and it would probably be different if they were specifically trying to hire somebody who *did* already have all the requisite skills... And I was hired in 2000, back in the days when any yo-yo who could turn a computer on could get a programming job...
// TODO: Insert Cool Sig
I am currently enrolled in the ACCIS BSCS program. I've been programming for years, but felt it would benefit me to take the next step and actually get the experience and, more importantly, the degree.
;)
I did two years of undergrad at Virginia Tech back before the dot-com boom beckoned me into the Hells of the corporate world, so when it came time to decide whether or not ACCIS would be worth my while, I called the Virginia Tech Comp Sci department. One of the professors there was nice enough to speak with me. I asked him to look over the ACCIS BSCS curriculum for me and let me know if completion of that curriculum would be considered a good step towards entering the graduate studies at VT for a Comp Sci Masters Degree.
As soon as he emailed me back and "yes, it looks like a good curriculum and will more than satisfy the requirements for CS graduate studies at VT", I enrolled. I know you don't have to have a degree in any certain discipline to take graduate level courses, but he has a doctorate or two (including Comp Sci) and gave his stamp of approval. That's good enough for me.
Now if only I can actually get some time to do the work. It's hard with all of these website review requests coming in
-- Stu
/. ID under 2,000. I feel old now.
You're lucky. I'm taking a class in a brick and morter school, and so far the "history of operating systems" has been dos and the different flavors of windows. Followed with a brief 5 second mention of unix and a quick note that Linux is not worth mentioning because they're all theiving hippies whom SCO will tar and feather. The teacher is self admitted as being somewhat Microsoft biased, and it's really been a eye opener to why zelotry on any side is a really bad thing. As you say, like it or not Linux is becoming a part of the real world as microsoft is as well, and unix still is. I imagine when this current crop of students graduate the situation is going to be even more diverse. Putting on little gogles and pretending that ones favorite system is the only one out there is going to be doing a huge diservice to any of these people who don't go looking for information on their own throughout this.
Posted in a cowardly manner because I'm scared the guy might see this and flunk me for saying the word "linux".
I agree, though slide-shows with handouts are useful, because they allow students to focus on thinking, instead of slavishly writing. It'd probably be best, however, to only give students the handouts after-class, so they can take their own notes during lectures.
social sciences can never use experience to verify their statemen
University of Virgin Anuses.
HTH
Mr Goatse (class of '98)
It's people like you that make us look bad. Not all people in the IT world lock themselves in the Server Closet and hope we don't see another human soul for the next 8 hours. Communication is also key, no one wants to higher a mightier then though prick how thinks he is above everyone cause he can use a fucking computer.
/. would be getting laid and wouldn't be getting married to the first fat rejected beast that pays them any attention.
One needs to be well rounded, variety is the spice of life. It looks much better to your boss and to your bosses clients when you are able to have a conversation with someone about anything. Maybe if less people thought like you more people on
DeVry is for douches, you'd be better off getting a welding certfication from your local trade school. DeVry is a pryamid scheme, how many other schools and real universities advertise as much as Devry, NONE.
"You are the Messiah! I should know. I've followed enough of them" -- Cleese. Life of Brian.
I've got:
1. Couple years at a "4 year+some MAs" state school.
2. BA from a Baron's "good value" private school.
3. Retro souvenier AA while working at a Big 10
4. Regents College, State of NY, BA (complicated)
5. Nine graduate courses total from among a backwater state U, the Big 10 U and a different small private U
AND, for my own edification:
5. HBA via largely the traditional postal studying + "sitting" for proctored annual exams distance education from UNISA (University of South Africa) [British system: An HBA is post-BA, never wrote the masters paper because a masters IS the masters paper.]
(And while working at a "U.S. News and World Report" top 25 liberal arts college, I ghost tutored another employee -- reading the texts, helping with papers and such)
You get the idea -- some people go to ball games. I went to class for my thrills in my 20-30s.
Which was the most rigorous educational experience? With _considerable_ variability among classes, and spotting it some points for being undergraduate, if I had been the one taking the classes for credit the USN&WR national top 25 school probably would have been the best. Probably not a surprise since a person can guess it would beat out the "good value" school and the Big 10 with its typical interest in post-grad education.
But second best? With a couple hands full of graduate courses from three U.S. U's to compare with, definitely the University of South Africa distance education. So I am a firm believer that distance education can deliver well thought out course plans and demand thoughtful and thorough papers and exams in return. And I took three years to complete what would have been one year resident full time.
With that background, the emergence of working class colleges that claim they won't cut into your time much really annoy me. There is one that advertises heavily on our local TV claiming a four year degree in four years with one day of class/week. Possible? I suppose if a person is working a 40 hour/week wage job and their life consists of studying while not sleeping. But I have to think these schools will pretty quickly get short listed for the attention of HR directors. Most of us who didn't go to an Ivy League school will fall into that vast middle ground of "Got a degree? Fine." While everybody knows the names of the Ivys, I suspect pretty soon HR will know the names of the most notorious "part-time, no sweat" schools too.
Depending upon the course, you have to consider the benefits of social interaction. For example, debating with other students or the teachers, or interacting in tutorials, or practicals (for science/engineering), or networking (e.g. if you are a mid-career professional taking a more management style course, then part of the experience is to meet others with similar backgrounds/experiences - not only is this rewarding just to share the experiences and learn from others, but it can be good networking for career purposes, and good way to get visibility for yourself). I am aware of people that have built relationships between the university and their organisation as part of such study.
I've obtained three qualifications part-time. I've found that employers have considered me to have a more mature approach, and value that I've been willing to balance work and life. They see this as a sign of a person with greater responsibility and time management skills -- irrespective of whether the course was online or not. Make sure you emphasise this point.
For your employer, the point is not whether you obtained your qualification part time or online. the point is:
(a) did you gain relevant and useful skills (e.g. if you were taking a management MBA online, you may be looked down upon because you obtained quantitative skills, but no networking);
(b) was the course half-way decent, irrespective of whether online or not;
If it takes a day to get a cert now then difference in standards between industry certifications and degrees is getting really obvious. I picked up seven degrees last week just by replying to my e-mails! Two of them were PhDs with gold certificates and it only cost me an extra three quid. :-)
(Seriously, I completely agree with everything you wrote. Anyone who can get a good degree and make an effort can readily adapt their skills to the standards required for most industry certifications. The converse does not hold: someone with a certificate may or may not know what they're doing, and a certificate in one field usually just demonstrates that they can tow the sponsoring organisation's party line, not that they have generally useful skills or that they know how to use the tools in question.)
If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
-Before I part with'em: two pennies weigh ~4.996+/-0.014g,
Just for the record, dimes and quarters are $20 to the pound. Pretty much exactly, enough that you can accurately count money on an electronic grocery store scale.
Yea I know, totally OT but Im wicked undercaffeinated this morning.
Glonoinha the MebiByte Slayer
That just meant you drank yourself silly for four years cuz you couldn't get into Harvard.
= 9J =
Don't mind those people... they're totally unrealistic. Comparing an online university to Harvard or Ivy league ones is ridiculous, 'cos most people can't get into these anyway.
I don't know about UoPhoenix or DeVry, but what i know is that the MBA from The Open University in England has a very good reputation, and it's a correspondence school. I am not sure about their other courses but i know they have a long long history of corresponce degrees and are generally respected.
That said, however, I'd suggest you stay in your school unless it's a totally crappy one 'cos you don't wanna risk perceptions, and perceptions matter in the real world even if they're false. I think the general perception is that if all things are equal, an attended education is better than a correspondence/online one. Where an online degree comes in as good is when it's an extra one. Such as someone i heard about from an academic who did a PhD in engineering while he did an MBA by correspondence from the open university. Or for example if you're working, then doing a correspondence degree that is a plus.
I suggest you stay at your school.
Welcome to the almost real world. In the real world, things are a bit more harsh, but this sounds like a good introduction.
/. universe, people actually do use MS, in fact, most do. When you get a real job in the real world doing real work, you will use the OS, the IDE, the programming language, the utilities, the hardware, the everydamned lil'ol'thing that your employer tells you to use, or you will be fired. That is, if your employer doesn't outsource your job to an Indian making 1/10th your pay who is more than happy to use MS or any other thing his employer tells him.
Outside of
That witty title ("grammar is it is own reward too.") is the funniest thing I've ever read. Somebody mod him up, if you have a heart.
Wha hua huaaA!!!!!! HAAAAH!!!!!!!!!!
With a BSCS, and I really liked the program. I went to a community college for a year, and enjoyed that a lot too. If I had enough time and money, I would have liked to continue in a regular college degree program, and graduate from a physical school. I think there are a lot of important experiences there that are not necessarily related to CS that will serve well in the real world. But I got a job, and tried going back, and it just wasn't working. It was exhausting going back and forth, and the pace of the school was just too slow. I really liked ACCIS because I could go at my own pace. Some classes were a breeze (concepts of java)... and others I had to really sit down and study (Theory of computation, algorithm design/analysis...) I went into the program thinking "this is gonna be a breeze..." but it wasn't all easy, and I spent a lot of late nights banging my head against a wall. I learned a lot that I never would have otherwise. Anyway, the company I work for (~350 people, based in sunnyvale) paid for a few of my CS classes, and after I graduated, they changed my title to "Software Engineer, Intermediate" and gave me a nice pay raise. Im still dealing with the same code I was before...but they appreciate me more. Anyway, I think that a lot of places just require you having a degree, and it's just a matter of having it that gets them to even review your resume, and experience counts for the rest.
Where can one get an online PHD in computing?