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More Jail Time For Computer Crime Starting Next Month
An anonymous reader writes "Washingtonpost.com is running a detailed story about how new changes to the sentencing guidelines will increase jail time for most computer crime cases, starting November 1. When will the feds learn that raising penalties isn't going to deter this type of crime? The piece ends with a quote from uberhacker Kevin Mitnick saying just that."
the punishment gets worse and worse until they actually catch one of the little bastards
bite my glorious golden ass.
Everyone hack as if it's your last month
It's about appeasing the masses. "Look", say the politicians, "We're tough on computer crime!" This will keep most people off the law makers backs.
Currently, you can get more time for hacking your cablemodem than manslaughter. What's the point anymore?
To any lawmakers out there who might read this - We Get It Already. Lay Off.
Weaselmancer
Weaselmancer
rediculous.
Next thing you know, prosecutors and corrupt police officers will be planting PalmPilots instead of pistols on folk to get harsher jail sentances.
"Your honor, not only did this man murder his wife, he has an AOL account!"
"hang him then fry him"
Karma Whoring for Fun and Profit.
I think if the guidelines actually included the phrase
"Federal pound me in the ass prison" it might help.
Sneakemail is to spam filters what an ounce of prevention is to a pound of cure.
...regarding the word "hacker". As many of us here know, the term "hacker" does not mean "computer criminal", as the mainstream press continually connote or denote it. I've often heard the defense that "well, once 99% of people start using a given word in a particular sense, that becomes a/the 'correct' meaning." By this logic, the millions of people who point at their computer (the box with the power supply, optical drive(s), floppy drive(s), hard drive(s), PCI/AGP/ISA card(s), etc. in it) and call it a "CPU", or a "processor", or a "hard drive"-- or even a "modem"-- are correct. They're not, nor are the people who think that "hacker" means "cyber-criminal".
I'd say that perhaps 99% of lay-people would, if shown a computer sans monitor, keyboard and mouse, call it either "a CPU", "a processor" or "a hard drive", and a few will call it "a modem" or "some computer thingy". This does not make these terms correct.
"Hacker" will never mean "computer criminal", no matter how many ignorant journalists and non-techies take it as such.
I am most definitely a hacker. I am most definitely not someone who breaks into systems, creates or uses exploits, makes viruses, etc. etc. etc.
Honey, I shrunk the Cygwin
When will the feds learn that raising penalties isn't going to deter this type of crime? The piece ends with a quote from uberhacker Kevin Mitnick saying just that.
That's funny. It deterred Kevin Mitnick for quite awhile---particularly when he was behind bars, and when he was prohibited from using a computer.
It's about actually punishing the crime. This might filter out a few people who would've committed a crime, but that's only a secondary function of the law. Given the greater damage incurred by attacks (worms and viruses being a key component of that), it seems fit to more severely punish those who take a part in this increased damage.
You zap the moderators with a wand of humor! The moderators resist!
Spammers already do all kinds of computer crimes (hijacking computers, etc.), and get no punishment, even after being reported. Sorry, but %100 more of zero is still zero.
DO NOT WRITE IN THIS SPACE
okIsn't the point of all punishment to deter the criminal and/or others from committing criminal acts?
When will the feds learn that raising penalties isn't going to deter this type of crime?
It won't deter this type of crime? I can assure you, I've seen plenty of situations where I've been tempted to play the line a bit, but when I think about my lovely wife, and 5 children, and the risk of penalties, I change my mind quickly.
Perhaps we should realize that deterring a crime is not the same as eliminating it?
A $200 fine for speeding will deter speeding - but it won't eliminate it.
[ Dictionary.com ]
v. deterred, deterring, deters v. tr.
To prevent or discourage from acting, as by means of fear or doubt: "Does negotiated disarmament deter war?" (Edward Teller). See Synonyms at dissuade.
I have no problem with your religion until you decide it's reason to deprive others of the truth.
Well, as has been pointed out by Dilbert author Scott Adams (among others), if you're in jail then you're not out committing the crime. Putting criminals in jail certainly does deter crime during the duration of their sentence.
"...but most maximum prison sentences handed down for computer crime range from one year to 10 years. Hackers whose exploits result in injury or death -- if they disable emergency response networks or destroy electronic medical records, for example -- face 20 years to life in prison.
Hackers will face up to a 25 percent increase in their sentences if they hijack e-mail accounts or steal personal data -- including financial and medical records and digital photographs. Convicted virus and worm authors face a 50 percent increase.
Sentences also will increase by 50 percent for hackers who share stolen personal data with anyone. The sentences will double if the information is posted on the Internet. More than half of the sentences handed out under federal computer crime laws would be lengthened by this change alone, according to a Sentencing Commission report released in April.
Jail time also will double for hackers who break into government and military computers or networks tied to the power grid or telecommunications network.
Hackers who electronically break into bank accounts can be sentenced based on how much money is in the account, even if they don't take any of it. Under the new guidelines, however, judges can tack on a 50 percent increase to the sentence if the hacker did steal money."
So Lets see if I create a worm to hack into millitary computers to hijack email accounts and steal personal data which then sends then info in an email to George W. Bush and also posts it on slashdot all the while destroying medical records and stealing money from secret millitary accounts how many years in prison do I get?
It can also be argued that it is there to keep law-abiding citizens satisfied in their law-abiding ways, and content that crime doesn't really pay. It's a two-fold effect.
http://pcblues.com - Digits and Wood
Hey boys...Just keep pumping out more of these "Hackers are Witches" kinda dumbass penalties and you're going to start to find that good computer help won't help your asses anymore.
Get it?
"A microprocessor... is a terrible thing to waste." --
GeneralEmergency
Whenever the offence inspires less horror than the punishment, the rigour of penal law is obliged to give way...
This is why I don't like a lot of Slashdot readers. What options are you giving politicians in order to deter computer crimes? You guys say higher penalties don't deter crime; while that may be true, Slashdot has to be one of the biggest proponents of anonymous computing around. So if you don't want criminals to be named and you don't want them to be sentenced, what do you want to have happen to them? Is computer crime not really a crime?
...or "rehabilitate" anybody. The intent is to control a kind of power that is greatly feared.
Here's an analogy, which I'm sure has flaws but here goes anyway.
This is like burning witches at the stake. Witches were thought to have control over nature and man via black magic, special knowledge of the occult, etc. We've all heard the saying that advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic to those who don't understand it.
When I hear things like the giant brou-hahas made over websites using "cookies" (gasp!), I realize how mysterious computers must seem to ordinary non-tech people. When bad things (virii, DDOS attacks) start happening to computers and web sites, it must be especially scary to these folks because they didn't really understand what was going on in the first place, and now it's all gone to crap for no easily explainable reason.
All of this fear and ignorance eventually bubbles over into rage, and an urge to lash out towards those perceived to be responsible.
Yes, I realize that a cracker is not a perfect analogy to a witch because the cracker is actually performing malicious actions. But there seem to be many examples of white-hats getting snagged in this over-zealous dragnet (the Adrian Lamo case for instance).
The extent to which The Gubment has started prosecuting these crimes smacks of fear and ignorance, just like the Red Scare, and the original witch hunts. The idea that Kevin Mitnick could actually call in a nuke strike from a payphone... idiots!
"Stop throwing the Constitution in my face, it's just a goddamned piece of paper!" - George W. Bush Nov. 2005
More Jail Time For Computer Crime Starting Next Month
Anyone else read that as someone getting jailed for a computer crime that will happen in the future?
The coolest voice ever.
Are you that slow or just taking a break from your homework?
How much hacking/cracking did Kevin M. do while he was in jail?
If there is no punishment, there is no reason not to do it. Put the jerks in jail!
Its politically beneficial for politicians to appear tough on crime. This move does get the political points but it leaves a long term mess for a prison system already over burdened by mandatory minimum sentences and it makes judges into clerks, rather than intelligent wielders of the law.
Look at California; direct democracy there lets the voters feel good for one election and saddles the politicians(managers, lets remember) with situations that just can't be made to work - you *must* provide more services, but not raise taxes.
Disaster ensues when you decouple responsbility and authority to discharge the duties. Judges are being hamstrung, reform has become impossible for nonviolent offenders in many areas, and it is only going to get worse.
I'll tell a personal story about what a joke mandatory minimum sentences are.
I have a friend who has a Bronze Star and a Purple Heart mounted in a little wooden box. He operates on one lung, shrapnel from the booby trap he set off while on patrol in the Mekong delta still comes to the surface in his back, but he kept his M60 lit up covering the LZ while the rest of the platoon retreated to the choppers.
He was involved in agricultural research and he ran a computer shop. One of his computer shop customers laid hands on his ag business information, ordered methamphetamine precursors, and then implicated my war hero friend to cover himself when he got busted.
Because of the manner in which the prosecutor handled the case the judge had to sentence this guy for something. He said he wanted to have him do forty hours of public service to remind him to keep his business records locked. He served six years in a federal camp.
I am very easy to get along with, but I don't have time to waste being nice to people who are being stupid. -Theo
I went out to the US Dept of Justice Statistics and Weaselmancer has a pretty good point.
From: USOJP
Mean sentence for murder = 248 months (20.6 years)
Hackers whose exploits result in injury or death -- if they disable emergency response networks or destroy electronic medical records, for example -- face 20 years to life in prison.
Now, I note it does say death, and if a person commits a computer crime that results in death, fine 20 years+ is ok with me; however, injury doesn't warrant the minimum 20 years IMHO.
What worse is that the average for rape is only about 11 years.
That's an interesting distinction. Is the whole point of the threat of punishment to act as a deterrent? Many of the Death Penalty proponents would argue yes. They claim that the threat of the death penalty stops people from commiting mass murder. The only problem with that philosophy is that people never think they are going to get caught.
"I can not bring myself to believe that if knowledge presents danger, the solution is ignorance" - Isaac Asimov
Higher sentences for hackers while Ken Lay et al are still sitting in their multimillion dollar mansions? Does anybody out there sense severe, disgusting irony?
"No beer until you finish your tequila!" -Leela's Dad
Bah. The way the economy is right now, I'm almost for this, just for the free room and board.
ad logicam Claiming a proposition is false because it was presented as the conclusion of a fallacious argument.
The UK already has fairly severe (IMO) penalties for computer crime. The Computer Misuse Act of 1990 makes unauthorized access of a computer system a crime with a maximum sentence of 6 months or a fine of 2000. If there is an intent to commit a crime, then maximum sentence increases to 5 years. The unauthorized alteration of computer data also carries a maximum sentence of 5 years.
The Act covers any crime with a significant link in the UK. Additionally, it also includes conspiracy and incitement. Personally, I believe that the Act was a knee jerk reaction to the thought of criminals running round a wired nation. However, it is rare for somebody to be prosecuted under the Act.
Drew: Damn that Nigel! I swear - he's stealing money from the company children's softball fund we started last week. I just wish there was a way we could get a look at his computer, and maybe stick it to him!
Lewis: You know - I found this program last night while looking for... stuff... online, and I think it could let you know what's on his system!
Drew: Really? Let's get to it then! [random typing-motions on the keyboard]
Drew: It's true - he DID steal those funds! Wait until everyone sees this!
[The Next Day, drew shows up to work with the local softball team.]
Drew: Nigel - we're onto you! I want you to fess up and appologize to these children.
Nigel: Ah, Mr. Carey. Hi kids. Yes - I'd like to appologise for what you're about to see. Allright boys - take him away!
[Police swarm in, grabbing Drew Carry violently. ]
Drew: What? What's all this - he's the one that's stealing from these kids!
Police officer: Yeah - just the kind of slander I'd expect to hear from a dirty HACKER!
Announcer: Next episode on the Drew Carry show - Day one of Drew's 25 year prison sentence. Remember kids - don't use computers!
Ryan Fenton
Glad to see the Justice system taking on important matters. I mean, since we started throwing the death penalty around as a deterrent, look how little murder occurs!
Oh wait...
I know nothing
I think it's one of those honeypots.
If I lost a few years of my young adult life for writing a linux DVD player, I don't think the people that put me there would be around long after I got out.
It's nothing but crumpled porno and Ayn Rand.
Those figures change dramatically when you consider per capita GNP. In reality the US per capita aid level is one of the cheapest donor levels of any industrialized nation.
Foreign AID as percentage of GDP
Per capita GDP
Lets put it this way, the average dane spends almost 8 times the amount of money in real dollars average american does.
No one hates the US because they are sucessful. I don't hate most european countries that have similar per capita GDPs. People hate the US because they are arrogant and have a horrible record for supporting and aiding vicious reigmes. (Pol Pot, Sadam Hussein, bin Laden, Taliban,El Salvador, etc)
Let me know about a 3rd world country the US rebuilt that they didnt blow to shit first.
Whoever convinced americans that they lived on the best country on earth really pulled the wool over their eyes as to what a good country can be.
If you ever get a chance or are actually interested in what the US stands for pull their voting record from the UN and look how many abstentions and votes against UN resolutions against colonization and terrorism the US has cast.
Why do we need harsher penalties for 'hackers'? It's because there doesn't seem to be an end to computer crime. Unfortunately, this is not the answer. I wouldn't hesitate to say that most computer criminals aren't even aware of the penalties until they get caught. They are concerned with only one thing: the chances of getting caught. The answer should be to take some of the money spent incarcerating people and make security a priority. Offer some tools and education. All this is going to do is put more troubled kids in jail for longer. I don't know about the rest of you, but if I was tried under current law for everything I did when I was a teen, I'd still be in jail right now. Give them a chance to become productive citizens.
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I live in Texas, you insensitive clod!
The roots of education are bitter, but the fruit is sweet.
--Aristotle
Most of the non-technical people I know refer to their monitors as their "computer". (The box itself is of course just the CPU)
I wonder, if common usage forces "hacker "to mean "computer criminal", will it force "computer" to mean "monitor".
So, we stiffen copyright law, computer crime law, and all sorts of crime law, only allowing those with millions of dollars to throw around to get away with them, yet many of the more basic crimes (rape, murder, etc) are NOT constantly pushed upwards for sentencing to "deter" these crimes...
Could this trend be because there is no corporate interest in the other crimes? Naaaaah, that couldn't be it.
Or are people just afraid of what they don't understand, as they understand the other two crimes very well?
This is the government's answer to every crime, drugs, guns, and now computer crimes. When will the government learn that criminals don't care about jail time, by very definition a criminal can not have respect for the law he or she is breaking or the consequences that go along with breaking the law.
lose != loose
EXACTLY. Locking up non-violent offenders in federal prisons is NOT the answer. For every one who "reforms" (which usually means he was caught in a stupid stunt he wouldn't've repeated anyway), two more get turned into hardened criminals, or so hating of their government as to be certain to do something worse upon release. The "Send a Message!" types never seem to think about the larger societal impact, only the idea of prison time equalling vengance. "What do you get when you lock a whole bunch of criminals together? Concentrated criminality!"
Bush: He's Liberal in all the wrong ways.
Murderers continue to get 5 to 10 in some states.
-You may license this sig for only $6.99.
Could it have been the time in prison?
The latest Slashdot meme.
Let's take a look at the War on Drugs (yeah, there are quite some successful wars around nowadays ;-). The penalties on dealing, smuggling, doing whatever with drugs are almost insane. 20 Years in prison is nothing for an average crack dealing thug (over the 100 years imprisonment is even handed out). Does it deter? I don't think so. After many years of war (on drugs), the number of prisoners of war is still rising. So the deterring factor doesn't seem to work.
Did anyone inform Capitol Hill that "cracking" has nothing to do with "crack cocaine" ?
When will the feds learn that raising penalties isn't going to deter this type of crime?
When/if somebody demonstrates that to be true?
Or are you making the classic "less than 100% deterrence == 0% deterrence" mistake?
The piece ends with a quote from uberhacker Kevin Mitnick saying just that.
It's deterring him pretty well.