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Mad Hatter Preview - Sun Java Desktop System Demo
bengine writes "According to this article, Sun Java Desktop System is a good product overall, built on the well-established SuSE system with integration from Sun. It delivers what appears to be a very useful desktop OS and it has the chance to make a dent in the Windows monopoly. But Sun will have to differentiate itself on its quality, hardware, services and reputation. That means a lot of hard work, so the key questions will be how well they execute their strategy, how much public acceptance they gain and what message they convey through public venues." This makes a good companion to the earlier story linking to Mad Hatter screenshots.
fp - baby
wow, already slashdotted? the whole site is a 403.
blah
Everything has a chance for a dent. into Windows monopoly. Like goatse guy has a chance to shrink his hole.
Jesus Christ! His ass split in half!
Why is there a need to preview so many GNOME Desktops under different name ? GNOME is GNOME no matter what company forks it. As soon as GNOME 2.6 comes out SUN, Ximian or Red Hat gonna fork it again for their Desktop. So if you want to know how each new GNOME looks like then please go and look inside the real GNOME and not some lame forks which changes anyways as soon as the core releases a new version.
I like the little anti-SCO rant towards the end of the article. A nice little flourish to finish.
"It delivers what appears to be a very useful desktop OS and it has the chance to make a dent in the Windows monopoly"
Does this mean that they plan to make the OS so it will run on the PC platform? Or will it require Sun workstations?
I finally received the Mad Hatter Preview in the mail this weekend. I couldn't wait to get this demo out and actually test the software, hoping that this would answer some questions that I had about the product. I was somewhat surprised to find a Live CD version of Mad Hatter instead of an actual beta, but that's okay, I could still see what it was, even if I cannot truly install it. The truly nice thing about Live CD's is that they don't require that much space to get the flavor of the system. In other words, you really do not make any significant changes to an existing machine.
The folks at Sun were even nice enough to name the files that are created on your machine in the C: drive (for Windows types) or your Linux / partition. The files can be deleted when you are finished navigating the demo CD, which makes this a handy demo for anyone wanting to show the system to someone without having to carry a computer around to demo the product.
The demo is only available in English, but that is not a real problem for a native speaker. I suppose the foreign markets will see other versions become available when the Java(TM) Desktop System reaches GA. The functionality of the system is somewhat limited because it is a demo, but there are some interesting things that have been added to the GNOME2 based desktop.
The obvious additions include the Star Office 7 Office Suite, Sun Microsystems latest version of Star Office - the product which led to Open Office (actually I think it Was Star Office 5.2 originally). The Open Office Team and the Sun Microsystems developers must be working in Tandem to make their suites more accessible to the public. The only problem I have with the Live CD is that I cannot install the Star Office 7 product to demo it (it takes more space than is allocated for the install in demo mode). Other than this minor annoyance for demo purposes, the system works well.
There are several things that Sun has added into their desktop that are not standard and are third-party add-ons. For one thing, they do install and integrate many of the commercial plugins that most Linux distributions do not install by default. Among them are the Macromedia plugins, several music and audio plugins as well as Real Player plugins. All of these plugins are integrated with Mozilla 1.4 and work out of the box (or in this case, on the Live CD).
These third=party add-ons or add-ins (however you wish to say it) are licensed and those licenses are described within the Third Party License README file. The various license for each piece of the puzzle are there, and given in full, for your reading pleasure. For those of you that thought there might be some license from the SCO Group for whatever they are claiming - they are not mentioned at all (enough said about that sore subject).
The Sun team has done a polished job of integrating their software into the GNOME2 environment, and has made some very nice changes here and there. Some of the third party Java(TM) add-ons are rather "nice to have" if not fully functional on the Live CD. Among these is JDisk Report from JGoodies as licensed from the Karsten Lentzsch and included within the Live CD environment (though not functional there).
The effect of that product was viral, I did go out and download JDisk Report 1.1.1 for myself (it is Freeware) for my own disk analysis on my machines. It is a rather nice thing to have.
The desktop is nothing unfamiliar to anyone who has ever used a Linux system before, and I don't see it as a giant hurdle for anyone who is used to a Windows environment. Heck, if my wife can pick up a Linux box running with GNOME2 and not have a problem, I suppose anyone can. My wife has never considered herself a computer whiz, but she did appreciate the fact that Linux doesn't crash and for the most part is just a "pick up and go" OS that remains available. The only downtime we experienced this year has been due to outside factors. We have lost our cable several times due to the virus outbreaks that really slammed
This is clever, and it's nice to see that it works, but Java? Most people's experience with Java is waiting forever for some applet to load on a web page only to discover it tells them what time it is. I can't see how they're going to convince Joe Average that this is somehow a competitive advantage, no matter how smoothly integrated the entire package is.
Georgy Russell is a fine illustration of everything that's wrong with the United States political system. Our Founding Fathers gave everybody the right to vote and participate under the assumption that most people who WOULD participate were of at least average intelligence and abilities. The fact that a numb cunt like Russell was permitted to enter the race at all should be clear evidence that somewhere, something went terribly wrong. To begin with, she has no apparent leadership ability, only that stale and very outdated idealistic dogma that business is bad and anything calling itself "progressive" is good. To read her angry comments about anybody who disagrees with her is to see the real Georgy Russell: a spiteful, immature, hateful, spoiled little bitch who has a lot of growing up to do. Secondly, her unwillingness to take a stand on even minor issues, such as "vi vs. emacs", leads one to wonder how she could possibly hope to be taken seriously on important issues like budget reform or the electricity mess in California. Finally, it should be obvious to most observers that the only reason she received any momentum at all is that she's an attractive girl who knows a thing or two about computers. If it weren't for thousands of hackers, who are known to be primarily overweight and antisocial loners, she would have disappeared immediately. One wonders if Russell realizes that she will be remembered far longer as a vision in the minds of thousands of masturbating geeks than as a political figure.
Moderators are targeting individual users and modding down every comment they post just because they don't agree with their opinions.
For people that claim to love free-speech, you practice censorship an awful lot.
no pictures in article
the sun has always been known to rise to the occasion?
now that their motives may have changed from simple greed/fear/ego, to a need to survive, maybe they'll see the light?
we're sticking to the receNTly released recommendation that warning labels be attached to certain devices/actions.
computers:
the fcc has warned that this device may contain softwar nazi kode stolen buy phonIE corepirate nazi felons. use may cause immeasurable embarrassmeNT, & likely bankruptcIE.
polling booth:
please be advised that most of the fauxking 'candidates' either have outstanding felonIE/grand larcenIE charges, or are associated with/sponsored buy, those who do.
stock markup:
contributions to this pyramid scheme have been proven to be used as a method to reduce your choices, &/or to hold your hardearned resources hostage, prior to stealing them.
the lights are coming up now. lookout bullow.
consult with/trust in yOUR creator... that's the spirit, moving you.
When I read the article for the first time I thought it was an OS that most of its apps are Java or something, but it turned out to be a Linux distro, with the most common Linux apps (GNOME, Mozilla, Evolution)
Anyway, it still looks like a good choice for desktops, I think I'll try to test it as soon as it's available.
The IT section color scheme sucks.
The author states The Open Office Team and the Sun Microsystems developers must be working in Tandem to make their suites more accessible to the public. but from the Open Office website:
StarDivision, the original author of the StarOffice suite of software, was founded in Germany in the mid-1980s. It was acquired by Sun Microsystems during the summer of 1999 and StarOffice 5.2 was released in June of 2000. Future versions of StarOffice software, beginning with 6.0, have been built using the OpenOffice.org source, APIs, file formats, and reference implementation.
Moderators are targeting individual users and modding down every comment they post just because they don't agree with their opinions.
For people that claim to love free-speech, you practice censorship an awful lot.
aslhdsalhda
Join the army.
that java was designed so "some people" [1] can write platform independent viruses and spyware. Therefore, if for example you oppose the government your toaster will start launching toasts at you, your computer erases your p0rn, the telephone is ringing and when you pick it up you hear the sound of a ringing telephone on the other end of the line, the TV opens and you see a room with people who watch a TV which shows you in your room watching the TV, etc. No thanks.
[1] NSA. CIA. RIAA.
Moderators are targeting individual users and modding down every comment they post just because they don't agree with their opinions.
For people that claim to love free-speech, you practice censorship an awful lot.
zxcv
You never call me.
*sigh*
Moderators are targeting individual users and modding down every comment they post just because they don't agree with their opinions.
For people that claim to love free-speech, you practice censorship an awful lot.
llokk
Moderators are targeting individual users and modding down every comment they post just because they don't agree with their opinions.
For people that claim to love free-speech, you practice censorship an awful lot.
zzra
I've heard a few comments in the media claiming that this is a threat to Windows, and as "slick as OS X". Ahem! Excuse me?!
Anyone that's used OS X and understands its architecture is immediately going to know that Sun's pretty-faced SuSE implementation ain't OS X.
Sure, it's great to see a properly packaged Linux-centric OS, don't get me wrong, but let's all try and remember exactly what this is...it's not
-psy
Mad Hatter Preview - Sun (TM) Java(TM) Desktop System Demo
Contributed by agentorange on: Tuesday 07 October 2003 @ 12:32:27
I finally received the Mad Hatter Preview in the mail this weekend. I couldn't wait to get this demo out and actually test the software, hoping that this would answer some questions that I had about the product. I was somewhat surprised to find a Live CD version of Mad Hatter instead of an actual beta, but that's okay, I could still see what it was, even if I cannot truly install it. The truly nice thing about Live CD's is that they don't require that much space to get the flavor of the system. In other words, you really do not make any significant changes to an existing machine.
The folks at Sun were even nice enough to name the files that are created on your machine in the C: drive (for Windows types) or your Linux / partition. The files can be deleted when you are finished navigating the demo CD, which makes this a handy demo for anyone wanting to show the system to someone without having to carry a computer around to demo the product.
The demo is only available in English, but that is not a real problem for a native speaker. I suppose the foreign markets will see other versions become available when the Java(TM) Desktop System reaches GA. The functionality of the system is somewhat limited because it is a demo, but there are some interesting things that have been added to the GNOME2 based desktop.
The obvious additions include the Star Office 7 Office Suite, Sun Microsystems latest version of Star Office - the product which led to Open Office (actually I think it Was Star Office 5.2 originally). The Open Office Team and the Sun Microsystems developers must be working in Tandem to make their suites more accessible to the public. The only problem I have with the Live CD is that I cannot install the Star Office 7 product to demo it (it takes more space than is allocated for the install in demo mode). Other than this minor annoyance for demo purposes, the system works well.
There are several things that Sun has added into their desktop that are not standard and are third-party add-ons. For one thing, they do install and integrate many of the commercial plugins that most Linux distributions do not install by default. Among them are the Macromedia plugins, several music and audio plugins as well as Real Player plugins. All of these plugins are integrated with Mozilla 1.4 and work out of the box (or in this case, on the Live CD).
These third=party add-ons or add-ins (however you wish to say it) are licensed and those licenses are described within the Third Party License README file. The various license for each piece of the puzzle are there, and given in full, for your reading pleasure. For those of you that thought there might be some license from the SCO Group for whatever they are claiming - they are not mentioned at all (enough said about that sore subject).
The Sun team has done a polished job of integrating their software into the GNOME2 environment, and has made some very nice changes here and there. Some of the third party Java(TM) add-ons are rather "nice to have" if not fully functional on the Live CD. Among these is JDisk Report from JGoodies as licensed from the Karsten Lentzsch and included within the Live CD environment (though not functional there).
The effect of that product was viral, I did go out and download JDisk Report 1.1.1 for myself (it is Freeware) for my own disk analysis on my machines. It is a rather nice thing to have.
The desktop is nothing unfamiliar to anyone who has ever used a Linux system before, and I don't see it as a giant hurdle for anyone who is used to a Windows environment. Heck, if my wife can pick up a Linux box running with GNOME2 and not have a problem, I suppose anyone can. My wife has never considered herself a computer whiz, but she did appreciate the fact that Linux doesn't crash and for the most part is just a "pick up and go" OS that remains available. The only downtime we exp
Anyone got any paper towels?
/me sees a McBride Press Realese in the near future...
I'm not a prophet or a stone-age man,
I'm just a mortal with potential of a super man.
Moderators are targeting individual users and modding down every comment they post just because they don't agree with their opinions.
For people that claim to love free-speech, you practice censorship an awful lot.
123
I find the name "SUN Java Desktop" really ridiculous. Its as stupid as calling Toyota Land Cruiser "SONY SUV" for the Sony sterio system used in it.
http://www.nasirudheen.blogspot/
it's not that they don't agree. the 'problem', is that they MuSt attempt to 'filter' posts that are representative of real folks' honest opinions/experiences, in favour of their 'obligations' to their phonIE ?pr? ?firm? scriptdead corepirate nazi sponsors.
lookout bullow on that won. tell 'em robbIE?
results always reflect the motives. look at the whoreabully infactdead BugWear(tm). still touted as having the ability to create more&more billyonerrors, when, in fact, we already have had more than enough, of that form of felonious execrable.
Moderators are targeting individual users and modding down every comment they post just because they don't agree with their opinions.
For people that claim to love free-speech, you practice censorship an awful lot.
7789
Q.
Insert Signature Here
The Java Desktop System will be available in December 2003.
I can't wait this long!!! By that time RedHat could be on release 12!!
...your mare runs WITHOUT java!
MARES RULE!
Q.
Insert Signature Here
You're not going to gain sympathy by infuriating everyone with your annoying posts. Repeated posting suggest that your frustration has gotten the better of you, and that possibly, you deserve the moderation that came your way. If you want to make a real case for this, e-mail the Slashdot editors.
Until then, kindly stop bothering us with this nonsense.
Is availiable with right hand drive?
Kids today are tyrants. They contradict their parent, gobble their food, and tyrannize their teachers. - Socrates 400 BC
The folks at Sun were even nice enough to name the files that are created on your machine in the C: drive (for Windows types) or your Linux / partition. The files can be deleted when you are finished navigating the demo CD, which makes this a handy demo for anyone wanting to show the system to someone without having to carry a computer around to demo the product.
The demo is only available in English, but that is not a real problem for a native speaker. I suppose the foreign markets will see other versions become available when the Java(TM) Desktop System reaches GA. The functionality of the system is somewhat limited because it is a demo, but there are some interesting things that have been added to the GNOME2 based desktop.
The obvious additions include the Star Office 7 Office Suite, Sun Microsystems latest version of Star Office - the product which led to Open Office (actually I think it Was Star Office 5.2 originally). The Open Office Team and the Sun Microsystems developers must be working in Tandem to make their suites more accessible to the public. The only problem I have with the Live CD is that I cannot install the Star Office 7 product to demo it (it takes more space than is allocated for the install in demo mode). Other than this minor annoyance for demo purposes, the system works well.
There are several things that Sun has added into their desktop that are not standard and are third-party add-ons. For one thing, they do install and integrate many of the commercial plugins that most Linux distributions do not install by default. Among them are the Macromedia plugins, several music and audio plugins as well as Real Player plugins. All of these plugins are integrated with Mozilla 1.4 and work out of the box (or in this case, on the Live CD).
These third=party add-ons or add-ins (however you wish to say it) are licensed and those licenses are described within the Third Party License README file. The various license for each piece of the puzzle are there, and given in full, for your reading pleasure. For those of you that thought there might be some license from the SCO Group for whatever they are claiming - they are not mentioned at all (enough said about that sore subject).
The Sun team has done a polished job of integrating their software into the GNOME2 environment, and has made some very nice changes here and there. Some of the third party Java(TM) add-ons are rather "nice to have" if not fully functional on the Live CD. Among these is JDisk Report from JGoodies as licensed from the Karsten Lentzsch and included within the Live CD environment (though not functional there).
The effect of that product was viral, I did go out and download JDisk Report 1.1.1 for myself (it is Freeware) for my own disk analysis on my machines. It is a rather nice thing to have.
The desktop is nothing unfamiliar to anyone who has ever used a Linux system before, and I don't see it as a giant hurdle for anyone who is used to a Windows environment. Heck, if my wife can pick up a Linux box running with GNOME2 and not have a problem, I suppose anyone can. My wife has never considered herself a computer whiz, but she did appreciate the fact that Linux doesn't crash and for the most part is just a "pick up and go" OS that remains available. The only downtime we experienced this year has been due to outside factors. We have lost our cable several times due to the v
If the pricing per seat per year is still $100, I don't see a whole trove of enterprises converting their entire camp over to this product. Especially with all the recent poor press Sun has gotten about being half-dead etcetera, I don't see many IT ppl being able to convince their boss to go with a company that he probably read about in the morning's paper as being about to collapse.
slashdot, news for crazed liberal socialist zealots
Wasn't it Sun who recently suffered a major blow to their java language, when it was discovered that the java interpreter that ran on their own operating system (Solaris) was slower than the interpreter created for windows?
The pricing may seem high at first for this product, but remember that the uptime will be better, and the apps that are available are more or less free or packaged with the product -- especially with the enterprise version. I think that for really large customers, the savings could be significant enough to warrant both the switch and the re-training of employees. What's more, once a few large customers switch to this system, there will be a greater demand for JAVA programmers... and that's what Sun really needs!
stuff |
I've got to hand it to them. that is a pretty sharp looking setup.
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Sign this petition, let your voice be heard!
Slashdot is using censorship! It is trying to eridicate free and open discussion like we know slashdot to be, it has the following RESTRICTIONS in place to Censor you
They claim they don't, but they do, wonder why their are so many trolls, crapflooders and lamers on slashdot, because they are fighting for their rights! Slashdot is trying to silence the trolls. Remove the filters, the trolls get bored, and slashdot will be troll free!
The "troll" moderation reason is fragmented and broken, why? Because they are trying to use an obsolete usenet term on a realtime discussion, "trolls" can cover a huge blanket of ideas.
Subnet banning, this bans a user unless they email jamie macarthy with their mp5ed ipids. This is unfair, and banning a subnet BLOCKS A WHOLE ISP SOMETIMES, and not that individual user! This can cause chaos! But real trolls use annoymous proxys to get around this so THIS JUST BANS LEGITMATE USERS! Also, they are trying to censor some anoymous proxies, mainly from countrys like africa, so this yet more DISCRIMINATION!
Pink page of Death, This censors people who use legitmate proxys or firewalls.
The Bitchslap! An unethical punishment which is applied to moderators who fight censorship against this site! In addition the Editors use their un-limited mod points to create a communist style censored discussion on slashdot!
But, the issue that concerens us the most, is the COMMENT QUOTA. A discrimatory system that stiffles discussion, cripples the community and will ultimateley destroy slashdot unless it is removed! Annoymous cowards are allowed only 10 posts a day! This is unethical! Users with negative karma only get two! That is DISCRIMINATION! How would you like to only be able to speak once a day, just because of the color of your skin. That would be racism, and slashdot is discrimitating on people just because of a negative number in a database! BOYCOTT SLASHDOT! LET THEM D
While it is good to see Sun embracing linux, isnt it still trying to run things using, what seems like a closed source model?
I mean whats with the crippled liveCD? is even the Live CD going to be available for free public download?
This makes me wonder about how much of the CD is actually GPL? All of the additional bits that sun has added probably arent opensource. How long before we see unofficial ISOs of the GPL'd portion?
I'm with you 99%.
Isn't this the same as MS calling Windows2003 Windows .NET Server?
.NET on everything.
SUN sticks Java on everything and MS sticks
Seems like SUN would have learned from MS on this one....
Color everyone confused!
M.B.
I believe Sun is using the Java naming because so many components are Java already, or will hopefully become Java-based in the future. For example, OpenOffice has a lot of components written in Java with tremendously tight Java integration. The SDK lets you do some really cool things. I used OpenOffice in server mode to automatically convert word, ppt, and excel docs submitted to a MySQL database into PDF. That way, they can be accessed from anywhere, and they are full-text searchable in the MySQL database, in addition to offering a really nice "preview" function. Also, Mozilla has many many parts of it written in Java.
Its a Sun configured OS for the Desktop, with lots of little Java utilities thrown in and the Java Developer Kit and J2SE.
It makes perfect sense. They put it in black and white that the OS is linux. Whats the big problem?
Think nothing is impossible? Try slamming a revolving door.
The distro has nothing to do with Java aside it can run JVM. Well, it can run (even often more successfully) other interpreters and compilers too: Python, Perl, Ruby, Lisp, Erlang, Haskell, Schema, ML, Prolog, C, C++, PHP, Ada, and many more.
But Sun doesn't care about other languages. Sun keeps being blind and see ONLY Java everywhere it goes, in everything it touches. Sun thinks that if it will repeat only Java as a magic word then at some point all world around will ignore everything if it is not Java.
So sad to see so good in the past company ending up in such a mental illness decease.
Less is more !
When you have a brand name that actually means something to the public, and you try to perform a "line extension" by applying that brand name to more or less unrelated products that do not share the characteristics with which the brand is associated, you don't enhance the value of the brand, you diminish it.
.net and apply it to some inchaote mass of technology.
Diet Coke, Cherry Coke, Vanilla Coke, by all means, but there's a good reason why Coca-Cola Corporation calls their orange juice "Minute Maid" and not "Orange Coke."
Sun's calling everything "Java" is almost as bad as Microsoft trying to appropriate the top-level-domain
Calling everything Sun does "Java" may please the ego of whatever manager is empowered to stick the name "Java" on stuff, but it won't do Sun, or Sun's customers, or the Java "brand" any good.
"How to Do Nothing," kids activities, back in print!
I posted about this before here : obviously, someone at Sun got a free copy of Xandros when Xandros gave out 1024 copies at LinuxWorld Expo here, and decided "Hey - this is the way to do it!", and now they call it JavaDesktop...
a) Major non-trivial application: Check. (Educational software for text exploration composed of two pieces, an almost full-fledged editor and an "investigator", interface fully graphical, localized for five different languages)
b) Write once, run anywhere: Check (Covers the three major platforms - Windows, Linux and OSX. Ok, write once, compile and run anywhere - the sole major problem was with text format in OSX)
The inconsistencies you point are development process, not tool, problems. Testing does not go away because you use Java. Our software does have minor inconsistencies across platforms, and some (20 or so) lines of code that will execute only in a given operating systems - I would call this cross-platform. The performance is also a non-problem after some targeted tunning.
So, from personal experience, I can say Java is now a viable desktop developement platform.
Except that's not the name of the product...
.NET from the name many months ago.
Windows Server 2003 -- they dropped the
Is there any reason people keep mimicing the same old desktop? The same old office applications? Is anyone out there trying to break the mold (I give Apple credit for doing this to a greater degree than others)? I mean, I still see Win98 and above emulation here (not emulation like that...emulation as in, "the child emulates his parents actions"), why not work on something a bit more revolutionary?
Of course here I am nit-picking, and don't really have anything helpful to add...
Carry On.
- Sighuh?
It's called 'JAVA' desktop, it's built 'SUSE', and it's name is MAD 'HATTER'. Could they make this anymore confusing?!
WURD!!
Sun is talking about charging roughly $100/seat for ALL of their N1 software. Basically, the "guts" of their "enterprise environment" is Sun ONE Directory, the messaging components, and various other "middleware." Sun Java Desktop is simply the desktop component of this "suite." It's a smart idea. Yeah, an organization could build their own "enterprise suite" out of GPL'ed or otherwise open software. Sun is just offering to do it for you.
There exists no way of exchanging information without making judgments. --Bene Gesserit Axiom
Didn't Sun say that they would sell you Linux, if you want but, but you must get Solaris if you want a real, stable and secure OS (or something along those lines, It was on Slashdot)?
How does this fit into this MadHatter?
Were they talking about the Server only? Is it okay for the Desktop then?
On a related note, wouldn't selling Solaris generate more revenue than selling */Linux? So, is this a move to contrast their 'superior' Solaris product with the 'hype-only' */Linux, an attempt to show why people should choose Solaris instead of */Linux?
Thanks
GrimReality
2003-10-08 09:54 EDT
It's Wednesday, isn't sun Bad on Wed? Or maybe that was Amazon.... or Verisign? I'm so confused.
Go away, or I will replace you with a very small shell script.
As well as having a full Linux distribution for Intel based kit. Buhbye CDE.
Architected correctly, the TCO for this Solaris or Linux will be low. Architected incorrectly you might as well not bother.
Government of the people, by corporate executives, for corporate profits.
down.
Hi,
is your code available? At some point in the past I wanted to do almost the same (convert ppt to html) but didn't have the time nor the knowledge to do so.
TIA,
....when are ya gonna learn that if anyone is going to dethrone Microsofts OVERWHELMING desktop suite dominance it sure as hell isn't going to be any half-assed product from Sun?
Mac OS X and Windows XP working side by side to fight back the night.
Not to start a flame war, as both desktops have merits, but I still think that in a business KDE Is more interface consistent and 'business looking'. Plus its got a useable integrated office suite.. not a 3rd party add-on..
---- Booth was a patriot ----
See sun package linux.
See sun sell package + support.
See thousands of IT managers now say "oh yeah, _NOW_ I'll make the switch!"
Riiiight.
Linux still has the same issues...one of the biggest is...it's not windows! (oh, and the mouse movement is still not quite right..) All those MS Office licences that were negotiated, all those Seiko label printers the secretaries love and probably won't work (and if they do it'll be a pain), all the pirated copies of X-Treme Beach Volleyball that won't run, all the techs who will have to be retra[[[[tired and new ones with linux experience found...
Let's face it. The linux faithful on slashdot are all nodding their heads saying "it could work..!" The suits who run the numbers, the IT managers who make the decisions...heck, even the techs on the floor are shaking their heads.
Could it happen? Yes. Will it happen. No. Not for technical reasons (I think we'd all agree that it's very technically feasible) but for people reasons.
Mozilla doesn't have any parts of it written in Java, I think you're thinking of XUL. Apart from that, I like the idea of OpenOffice integrating Java even more tightly. Once thing I'd like to see OO support is Java based macros rather than that basic-like crap that's in there right now.
Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around the laws-Plato
Giving up servitude to Microsoft for servitude to Sun makes no sense at all.
If someone says he and his monkey have nothing to hide, they almost certainly do.
i really don't like it when people keep saying that. unless you're working with the command line i find it hard for anywone to think that linux really is 'soooo much' better than windows. i set up hotkeys for all of my programs using litestep. and litestep in itself is already so customizable there is no end to what you can do with it. and even if you don't use litestep, windows has built hotkeys that you can use. so what do i do when i want to start winamp? i just press ctrl+alt+w. word? win+w. email? win+m. none of this, start, programs, microsoft office, word. no, takes me 1/2 second to press my hotkey and it loads. is my volume too loud? to quiet? or do i just wanna shut it up. hotkeys for those too. all my common tasks i can do in a blink of an eye. even though i haven't tried much in linux (KDE3) i couldn't quickly find any options to change hotkeys to run programs. but i'd imagine most linux 'power users' to open up the run dialog with a hotkey and type in the command. and to add on to my productivity, i use mouse gestures for EVERYTHING, not just browsing, but everything. last time i checked with linux, they discontinued support for KDE2, and not making it for KDE3. i was pretty disappointed at this because i've grown very used to using gestures. when i close a window, i don't move to the top corner to press the X, i just hold down right-click and make a C. it's even faster than positioning my left hand to press alt+f4. new tabs and close tabs in mozilla? make a N, or make an L. for those interested...www.tcbmi.com/strokeit/ completely free. and very useful. i just want to tell all those windows productivity bashers that even though you make like to take every opportunity to say how much linux is better than windows this and that, if you actually took the effort to make windows extremely productive you can. and if you use the CLI argument...then you're not really using your computer now are you? you're just administering it right?
I wish instead of focusing on video or a glossy desktop Sun would come out with a distro that supported all their authentication modes. That means a stable distro that is tested with both SunOne directory(ldap) and NIS+. Documentation for both should be just as good as it is on the solaris side.
It's not the size of your stack that matters, it's how you push and pop
I've been awaiting my cd since SUN first posted the whole "Mad Hatter" blurb. By "live CD" am I to understand this is the same deal as Knoppix?
I installed Knoppix as a lightweight debian system
by running "knx-hdinstall" at the console. Any such
install possibilities with this puppy?
I'm starting to get sick with every 'altervative' desktop still having a taskbar and a 'start' button. What ever happened to some fresh new ideas of what a GUI for an OS/Window Manager is supposed to look like. Maybe use those special buttons on some keyboards as special actions instead of having to click Start >> Hover over Programs >> Hover over Accessories or Click on MS Word.
My ideal interface would be a very small LCD touch screen with the ability to interface with the OS while the main screen will be the main working screen.
We need some imagination!!
It's just a beginning. Now they have a Java desktops, because they used a tiny Java class in the process of installation of GNOME. Next itme they will use a tiny java class just to configure /etc/hosts and we'll all see "Java Linux".
Less is more !
I think Sun will find little success with this product specifically because it offers so little over the base freeware.
I can't imagine why Sun is commiting the classic error of brand extension by calling this a "Java" desktop. It dilutes the value of the best thing Sun has going for them and doesn't clearly describe their new product. How numbingly short-sighted. Surely Sun can afford some proper marketing direction.
Unless there's some legal reason to the contrary, this product should have been released as "SunLinux." No need to use buzzphrases like "desktop" in the packaging, either. It's a meaningless term to Windows users, who view the desktop and underlying OS as the same thing. Just present the value-added software (the desktop, StarOffice, etc.) as a very cool SunLinux bonus and move on.
Another case of corporate ego over common sense. Pity: sounds like a decent product.
This is my post. There are many others like it. If you don't like what you read here, go try one of the others.
This myth is repeated so many times that people start to believe it. There is a huge support network in large firms for totally free software, some of which is downright obscure. This notion that corporate departments only use corporate software is bunk, I don't know why people continue to trot it out.
The company I work at has a $22 billion market cap and survives on freebsd, perl and php. CONVINCED YET???
What happen with Mad Hatter strategy now that Novell acquired Ximian (GNOME + Evolution)? ;-)
Why Sun call it "Java Desktop System"? The rigth name is: GTK+ Desktop System
If it doesn't support Lotus notes then I ain't using it.
... lotus notes.
No IMAP/POP
Sun Java Desktop System is a good product overall, built on the well-established SuSE system with integration from Sun. It delivers what appears to be a very useful desktop OS and it has the chance to make a dent in the Windows monopoly.
Whoever thinks that Sun has it in them to make a high-quality desktop must never have used a Sun GUI. Try OpenWindows to get an idea of what Sun thinks is a good GUI. To the degree that MadHatter is a great desktop, it's a great desktop because of Gnome, not because of what Sun added to it (which is very little).
In fact, MadHatter is a big admission of defeat for Sun: Sun should have delivered a Java desktop environment. That is, they should have delivered an environment in which applications and tools are written in Java. Instead, they are shipping an open source desktop environment written mostly in C/C++, ship a JVM along with it, and call it a "Java desktop". Apparently, it's beyond the capabilities of a multi-billion dollar company to develop a usable desktop in what they claim to be the premier programming platform for the 21st century.
SuSE, RedHat, and Gnome can make a dent in Microsoft's monopoly--they have the software, ease of installation, and driver support for PCs. Sun has nothing to contribute that I can see.
If you look at the sources for the Eclipse SDK (it's Open Source, go look!), only the layer connecting to the windowing system (GTK+2, Motif, Carbon, Win32) is native. The rest of it is Java byte-codes.
It is my understanding that sun releases many of their products unsupported. If they really want to make a dent in a business market they could actually start selling support contracts for software. It would be good for their income and good for a customer to be guaranteed support when they need it. Other shops have been doing this for years; I am surprised Sun hasn't caught on.
This is what i meant, i realize SO is owned by Sun now..
It was in reference to that its 3rd party relative to the Gnome desktop...Where Koffice is integrated.
I belive the QT license issues are moot now, but I agree they may not have been when this was decided...
---- Booth was a patriot ----
I don't want to specifically attack Sun with this comment, but...
Watching competition between different desktops is about as exciting as watching competition between the Democans and the Republicrats.
Most desktops copy each other and have no serious differences. They're all competing for the middle ground, either because their developers don't want to innovate any more (due to time constraints or other reasons) or because they're hoping that people might switch as the new isn't really revolutionary from the old.
To name a few, KDE, Windows (any version), Gnome, MacOS, WindowMaker, and so on, all have the same basic features.
In other words, they're all designed to be the same and to only have niche differences. Consequently, they're all falling into the same general traps that come with these similar ways of doing things.
To name an example, I'd love to see a less modal window manager that tried to do away with overlapping windows. Currently one of my biggest gripes with using nearly any computer desktop is the ability to lose windows behind other windows and lose track of what state things are in.
If a window manager allows switching windows and seeing what's running by looking at and clicking on the visible windows, then people will do that. (And I frequently do.) The problem is that the whole action of doing so then becomes very ambiguous, because the ability to switch applications is somewhat randomly dependent on how much of the window is visible.
How long until we actually see some real innovation with desktops where they aren't just copying each other and making the same mistakes?
I seem to remember that Disney (ABC, whoever) owned a copyright on the words "Mad Hatter".
When I was in high school, I was a member of a choral group who called themselves the "Mad Hatters" and we got into a brief spat w/ Disney's lawyers over that.
Does anyone else know more about this?
I prefer my desktop to be written in C.
.NET is, and the more Microsoft put .NET in different sentences, the more people will warm to the idea and buy something with .NET in it.
I know that Java is good for basically everything according to Sun, but a desktop???
Yeah I know. It's just a name.
A stoooopid name. Microsoft can get away with calling everything '.NET' because their market is the mindless masses. Most people have no idea what
But Sun is supposedly marketing to those who know better. So they have a serious problem, because this audience sees right through them.
Java Desktop my arse.
Like I said, I prefer my C Desktop. Idiots.
How tightly is Java integrated into the OS? Sounds like it's basically just another Linux distro with the latest jdk and maybe some Java-based window managers and X programs. Whatever happened to the idea of a Java-based OS?
Almost as stupid as calling something Mandrake Linux just because about 1MiB out of about 800MiB installed is the Linux kernel?
Languages aren't inherently fast -- implementations are efficient
I pretty much used the example DocumentConvert.java in the OpenOffice SDK. You can get it here:
OpenOffice SDK