Slashdot Mirror
Game Violence Lawsuit Hits Take Two, Sony, Wal-Mart
oDDmON oUT writes "According to TBO/AP, $246 million is being sought from hardware manufacturer Sony, game publisher Take Two, and retailer Wal-Mart, by the families of victims killed by two teenagers supposedly inspired by Grand Theft Auto. The suit was initiated by Miami lawyer, Jack Thompson, and is not the first time that Thompson has attempted to sue game makers. His crusade to implicate video games in violent incidents has led to countless media appearances, but his 1997 efforts to implicate id and others in a $33 million dollar suit stemming from a school shooting ultimately failed, when the 6th Circuit Court of Appeals dismissed the case, writing that: 'We find that it is simply too far a leap from shooting characters on a video screen to shooting people in a classroom.'" This looks to be an extension of the lawsuit filed last month.
--
Evan
"$30 for the One True Ring. $10 each additional ring!" -- JRR "Bob" Tolkien
"from the famous-radiohead-song dept"
Which famous radiohead song are we talking about?
In any case, this is just dumb. This guy just keeps taking pot shots in the hopes that he will one day find the judge who agrees with him?
I hate when people try to legislate morality.
I hate it more when criminals (or their families) try to sue someone else for "causing them to be criminals" - the game companies should sue the kids and their families for slandering their game or something. Just to highlight the absurdity.
KNOXVILLE, Tenn. (AP) - A $246 million lawsuit was filed against the designer, marketer and a retailer of the video game series "Grand Theft Auto" by the families of two people shot by teenagers apparently inspired by the game.
.22-caliber bullets as they passed through the Great Smoky Mountains.
The suit claims marketer Sony Computer Entertainment America Inc., designers Take-Two Interactive Software and Rockstar Games, and Wal-Mart, are liable for $46 million in compensatory damages and $200 million in punitive damages.
Aaron Hamel, 45, a registered nurse, was killed and Kimberly Bede, 19, of Moneta, Va., was seriously wounded when their cars were hit June 25 by
Stepbrothers William Buckner, 16, and Joshua Buckner, 14, of Newport, were sentenced in August to an indefinite term in state custody after pleading guilty in juvenile court to reckless homicide, endangerment and assault.
The boys told investigators they got the rifles from a locked room in their home and decided to randomly shoot at tractor-trailer rigs, just like in the video game "Grand Theft Auto III."
In a suit filed Monday in Cocke County Circuit Court on behalf of the victims, Miami lawyer Jack Thompson and local lawyer Richard Talley alleged the game "inspires and trains players to shoot at vehicles and persons."
"These kids simply decided to take the thrill of that game out to Interstate 40 and started pointing at cars," Thompson said in a telephone interview Tuesday.
Thompson, who said he sent letters to Sony and Wal-Mart to drop the game before the shootings, said, "It's not like this is coming out of the blue, they chose to ignore this danger."
San Mateo, Calif.-based Sony and Bentonville, Ark.-based Wal-Mart did not return calls for comment Tuesday. The lawsuit alleges the retail giant sold the game to the Buckners about a year before the shootings.
Douglas Lowenstein, president of the industry Entertainment Software Association, called the shootings "an unspeakable tragedy" but said blaming a game played by millions for the boys' actions was "misguided and counterproductive."
"There is no credible evidence that violent games lead to violent behavior," he said. "While video games may provide a simple excuse for the teenagers involved in this incident, responsibility for violent acts belongs to those who commit them."
Thompson has made similar claims in the past and lost, notably a $33 million lawsuit against video game makers stemming from the 1997 school shooting near Paducah, Ky., by a 14-year-old boy.
The 6th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals ruled in the case last year that it was "simply to far a leap from shooting characters on a video screen to shooting people in a classroom."
CMDRTACO CHECK YOUR EMAIL!
The slashdot editors must be so conflicted. On the one hand, Walmart is being sued, which is a good thing. On the other hand, they are being sued for distributing video games, which is a bad thing. What's a guy to do?
"He who would learn astronomy, and other recondite arts, let him go elsewhere. " -- John Calvin, commenting on Genesis 1
I fear this will only accelerate the trend of removing violent and /or adult content from games and other entertainment carried by major retailers.
I was really looking forward to experiencing the dark side of RPG with Temple of Elemental Evil. Unfortunately, it looks like the brothel story line from the original PnP modules was removed. Apparently, it was removed in order to have Wal-Mart carry the game.
I am an adult. I enjoy content that is not appropriate for everyone. If Wal-Mart will not carry what I want, I will buy it where I can. I just wonder if Wal-Mart's influence will mean that the content will no longer even be produced.
John
I may disagree with what you have to say, but I shall defend, to the death, your right to say it. jya.com/ap.htm
theyve stopped blaming heavy metal
back in the day we didnt have no old school
Im inspired by the US miltarys actions in iraq to go and drive through this person house.
And the good thing is that the goverment would be reponsible for inspiring such a behavior in me.
In America we are imprisoned by our fear of them.
It seems to me that we can really consider Rockstar/Take Two as among one of the most influential game designers in the world. Honestly, how many people get to say they went the same route as Id?
On a serious note, I can definitely see this as a cop out for major game distribution stores (Walmart, EB Games) to stop selling "questionable" games. I have been playing violent games since I was about 8 years old, and I'm not violent in the least.
People like this need to take a breather, and actually think for once. If someone will kill someone because of a video game - they were probably mentally unstable enough to kill them from watching a movie, listening to a song, or having a conversation about Barney; That doesn't make the responsibility fall on anyone other than him/herself.
You're just mad because the voices in your head talk to me.
First thing I'd ask is which version of the game they played.
Just since if they said GTA3 then, well, you couldn't shoot people in cars until Vice City and that would get the case dismissed easily.
Only thing I'm scared of is that because they claimed it was GTA that inspired them, and because in Vice City you can do exactly as they were, that it may end up differently this time.
Oh, dear god let's hope not!
We have been through this thing many times, When the colombine shooting happend what did they blame? Doom, quake etc. Did they ever stop to think that maybe these games had little or nothing to do wih them? OH NO! I play doom and Wolf3d regularly, does that mean I am in danger of shooting up a school? SURE! Lock me up before I can! They are just looking for somthing to blame it on other then the parents lack of concern for their children which in my opinion is the main reason things like this happen.
DUKEY!
"from the famous-radiohead-song dept"
Which famous radiohead song are we talking about?
Everything In Its Wrong Place?
i believe it was said in another post but really people will continue to sue game companies for stuff like this until someone wins and game companies back off or until a game company counter sues for bad press about their game. with the walmart banning thing i believe Billy Joel had it best when he had one of his albums banned and it ended up being his best selling album at the time. parental disobidence will drive people to games not at wal-mart. really the only reason to get a game on a wal-mart shelf is for kids to pick up while their parents are shopping and say "buy me this" what i believe is that soon all media, books, music, movies, and game will have a EULA that basically comes down to the following "by reading/listening/watching/playing this product you give up all your rights to sue the publisher for anything" kind of reminds me of the simpsons episode where marge reads the letter sent home out loud and it says "by reading this out loud you give up the right to sue the school" or something like that (not a HUGE simpsons fan, casual watcher) my end comment is this. companies will protect themselves however they need to but until a actual court case wins they will not know how to protect themselves so they will continue along as if they have no need to.
Think about it. Someone offs Jack Thompson in a Barney suit. Current logic dictates that Barney is evil. Everyone wins.* * Please note that this is comedic and should not be taken orally or literally.
Oddly Draconis
Too cynical to live, too stubborn to die.
This week's tops at the box office is Time Warner's remake of The Texas Chainsaw Massacre, which took in a whopping 28 million dollars for a 9 thousand dollar per screen average, yet only featured one dismemberment every 20 minutes. It dethroned Disney's ultraviolent Kill Bill, which continued to charge ahead at the box office. With an enviable 3 week total of 43.2 million dollars it's averaging 240 thousand dollars for every man woman and child disembowled, dismembered, or decapitated for your viewing pleasure.
In other news, a spat of school violence is sweeping across the nation. "I didn't even realize that trenchcoat wearing freak existed before he put on a hockey mask, pulled out a 2-foot machete, and started lumbering towards everyone" one spunky but virtuous survivor at a Des Moines High School told reporters. "We usually just laughed at him. Then he started killing us. Then the cops shot him dead. Who is laughing now Freak?"
Parents across the nation have uncovered the source of the violence: games that you play on your television, AKA "Videoed-Games" were present in all of the troubled children's rooms. "My son was a model student," the mother of one such corrupted child told reporters Tuesday, "the babysitter said he always came home from school on time, he never missed a meal (food disappeared regularly from the refridgerator), and he was so quiet and respectful those times we took him to see House of the Dead, 28 Days, House of 1000 corpses, and Spy Kids 3D. The other kids roughed him up a bit, but you know... boys will be boys. And then... And then..." The mother broke down into tears, "And then we accidentally opened the door to his room, and discovered these shiny little disks everywhere. They all had names like 'Devil Dice,' 'Dark Savior,' and 'Speed Devils Online'. He had a House of the Dead game that was so realistic it integrated footage from the movie! I immediatly increased his beatings from one to four per day. But even that wasn't enough to save him from the influence of these Demon Games."
"His father will be furious when the warden tells him," she added. "I'm so upset by this gaming-inspired lack of morality, I need to go watch 'Special Victims Unit.'" The mother then left the interview, forgetting the small baby she had brought with her.
The ______ Agenda
The FBI will be by shortly, please handcuff yourself and wait in the closet.
All those hours playing Pac-Man and Burger-Time made me eat too much!
Syntax error: loose != lose, affect != effect, then!=than
Wait till a D&D Computer Game with Heavy Metal Music comes out.
It will be the end of the world!
Really, video games are not to blame. If it's anything, it would have to be the parents. If you don't want your kids to go out on a shooting spree, teach them that shooting people in the head is bad. instill in them a sense of right and wrong.
Even if, for some reason, this game sparked some sort of violent behavior in these kids, you can still blame it on the parents. The last time I checked, Grand Theft Auto was rated M anyway, parents should learn to give a damn about what their children play. These kids were, as the article says, clearly not of the recommended age to play these games.
I was planning on ranting a little bit, but it's time for work, maybe later...
-Magiluke
Earl Grey, Hot.
This guy is just another Ambulance Chasing(tm) Lawyer; blaming everybody but the actual criminal for the crime.
When the hell are we going to see tort reform that puts these guys out of business?
Dear Jack Thompson,
We will agree that video games can have a harmful effect on kids when you agree that parents who raise thoughtless murdering psychopaths are jackasses. Deal? Good. Oh, and instead of $260 million dollars - you get nothing. Good? Good.
Signed,
Some gamers.
-
Cathode Tan
Let's ban them.
-Clio
Karma: Bad (mostly from not giving a fuck)
Blog: http://clintjcl.wordpress.com
Let me get this straight (I'm sorry if this is a dup post)...
Someone does something in a 'fantasy' land such as a video game. Kills monsters, car-jacks, jumps on gumba's (or whatever they are called) heads, etc...
Because they did this in a game on a PS2 or PC or Nintendo, the person thinks it is ok to do it in real life? Because the person is too stupid to make a distinction between the real world and the 'pretend' world?
Or is it, that people are greedy are see that Sony and the rest have deep pockets that they can go after?
After all, if games can be blamed for people doing stupid shit like this, then why aren't books? It isn't that far of a step... Why wasn't Tom Clancy sued when 9/11 happened? After all, he wrote a book where terrorists did practically the same thing. It could be claimed that they were 'inspired' by the book.
This is what it comes down to. People are stupid and don't want place the blame where it is due. Everyone is responsible for their own actions regardless of if you're 15, 25 or 50. Everyone has a conscience and knows what is right and what is wrong. If you are 15 and do this stuff, it is probably because you're parents suck at parenting and never hold you acountable for anything or the kid has totally lost it... no where do video games, movies, books, or whatever come in there.
The next questions is how did they get those guns? Someone is definitely at fault for that one. I'm sick of people taking the easy way out... own up to it, punish them, and fix the problem already!
There. Now I feel better.
-Mark
Dovie'andi se tovya sagain.
Just watch "bowling for Columbine" Michael Moore explains this much easier than I could ever do.
Anyway, if this guys are so convinced "games did it" why do they always sue for money? wouldnt be more useful for their "cause" if they asked the game to be banned, or games to stop being sold in walmart? isnt painfully obvious that money simply wont solve anything?
And since we are in the subject, why they dont sue the weapon company or the NRA or ask for the ammendment that allows anyone to have a gun to be abolished? I mean those are the ones responsable for the weapon existance and the fact that is available for a kid. The game merely "suggested" what to do with it (if you believe that crap of an argument of course).
People instinctively assess the danger of something by how familiar they are with it. That is to say that it is completely normal for a person to feel no danger while driving recklessly without a seatbelt, yet be afraid of flying if he is not used to it . If a law suit like this is going to succeed, it's goign to be with a jury that is completely unfamiliar with video games and/or movies. No matter what the evidence, if they are fairly normal non-gamer, a game like Grand Theft Auto will make them very uncomfortable, no matter how little merit the suit may have.
I personally don't think that the courts or the government should be involved in judging media for this reason.
That said, I'll take what is likely to be an unpopular position here and say I believe that games like GTA are probably a bad thing. For one thing, the game reinforces the perception of the city as a frightening place populated by predators and victims. For another thing I worry that it might blunt empathy for people who are victims of violence. Of course it's ridiculous to think a normal person would go on a rampage after playing a videogame - it's too far from normal behavior. But being able to dismiss the suffering of people who are remote or easy to objectify is very close to normal behavior. I just don't think it's an appropriate subject for lighthearted fun.
This may strike many as political correctness, so let me make it clear I consider it a personal choice that I do not play games like GTA and nor let my kids play or watch others play them. I realize that reasonable people may differ, that the gamers who play this game are normal people who are on the whole decent to their fellow human beings. So I have no desire to impose this choice on others.
I suppose, though, that an amoral game like GTA is probably worlds better than a game that wraps violence in moral approval.
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
Was the people behind the Three Stooges ever sued? What about Warner Brothers for their Wile E. Coyote cartoons? Superman? Tom and Jerry?
When you kill somebody in GTA, they die. Run over somebody, they die. Beat a granny to death, she dies. On top of all that, the cops chase you. When they chase you, it gets a LOT harder to finish the game. They don't stop until they get you.
So, GTA teaches you that shooting somebody kills them, and that it must be wrong because the police come after you. But Bugs Bunny teaches us that a duck can get hit in the face with a shotgun blast, and all that'll happen is his beak will be shifted to the opposite side of his head.
Getting back to the case at hand here. There's no possible way that those kids could have shot at cars without realizing that a.) They were doing something wrong and b.) that by firing the gun, they were aiming to kill. Both of these lessons are learned when playing any of the GTA games.
So, if they were inspired by GTA, then they intentionally set out to commit murder. Pity, GTA warned them what would happen.
I wonder how many kids were in the hospital due to frying-pan-in-the-face injuries during Tom and Jerry's prime.
"Derp de derp."
is obviously saying it for someother reason. They might have problems already, I mean it is not like it is going to not be sparked from somewhere else!! There was violence before video games! Or they are saying this because they want to take the attention off the murders they commited, which they seem to have done.
-Seriv
Wal*Mart might be liable for selling the video game, but isn't it a bit silly that they're suing the video game distribution system but not the firearm distribution system? Who knows, the parents probably bought the rifles at Wal*Mart as well. Seems to me that the people who should be sued are the parents who let their kids buy the game, play the game, and get access to the weaponry.
"We make our world significant by the courage of our questions and by the depth of our answers." Carl Sagan
I should put together a short film about videogame violence about a serial killer who goes out every Halloween in a yellow jumpsuit and with a can of blue spraypaint who cannibalizes children who go out dressed as ghosts, leaving behind only their eyes.
Oh, say does that Star-Spangled Banner entwine / The myrtle of Venus with Bacchus's vine?
Point 1-
The law doing filing the suit it a media whore from way back. He used to pursue the likes of The 2 Live Crew and such and his work has never amounted to jack sheeyat. As said before he's just trying to legislate his own opinions on what's right and what is wrong and hopefully make some cash in the process.
I don't see this or anything else he tries to run through the courts because the damages he seeks are a joke. He might have a chance if he lowered his damage claims to a reasonable amount and he's lucky enough to find a court full of religious right-wingers who don't know their ass from a hole in the ground.
I find it amusing that this "neck" is suing Walmart since he's probably buying most of his clothes and electronics there. Walmart is a store that sells shit and caters to country "sheep" who are lead and could never form an educated opinion. I know I sound like I'm stereotyping but it's based on reality.
I say this because I don't base where I shop on what magazines and games the store might or might not stock. Fuck Walmart and their Cheryl Tiege Collection! I know it's a "neck paradise" but I'm no neck and I prefer to buy things that aren't produced from a child working 7-10's of hard labor in a 3rd world country.
Let me say this one more time.
Jack is a media whore looking for a payday and Walmart sucks unless you're into hypocrisy and bad fashion!
Point 2-
On the games are evil point I would say that we live in an age of blame. It's never our fault no matter what.
If I eat 10 big macs a day and becaome a fat fucking cow it's mcdonald's fault and they should compensate me for the pain they have caused me. What a joke yet we allow it to persist because of our "I don't care attitude".
Parents are the ones to blame and that's it. I have played every violent game since I was a kid. I have seen more violent images on the net and real life that 99% of the people out there will ever see. In saying all of this I would also state that after playing Doom I never felt obligated or had an incentive to go blow someone's head off. I haven't and don't plan on ever doing it either.
I was raised with morality and common sense so I know right from wrong. If parents don't raise their kids and they act out and kill people it's their fault. It's not a movie, video game, or the system's fault.
Period...end of rant
You aren't free to do anything, until you've lost everything.
What's Thompson going to go after when this case is over and done with?
Cute blue hedgehogs and two-tailed foxes that eliminate robots by jumping on their heads?
Chubby, Princess-rescuing Italian plumbers who stomp on walking mushrooms?
Peace-loving robots who fight for everlasting peace, maybe?
--Fortissimo
I need to get this off my chest.
This is so ridiculously stupid in point form
1. If GTA3 made them kill then what is to say that a violent movie / or song couldn't do the same. They were obviosly mentally unstable to start with.
2. What about gun control? Why does a 14 and 16 yr old need access to a gun? I don't see a reason. ( and no, self defence from someone else with a gun doesn't cut it as they probably would have a gun either if there was gun control) Don't blame video game maker just because the is a gaping big hole in the constitution.
3. Where are the family and friends in all this? Did they have so little to do with there sons/friends that they had no idea they were capable of these sorts of actions. They obviously didn't know these two kids from the next.
4. Millions of other people play GTA3. I myself play and have no want or need to start randomly shooting people. I have been playing games of this nature since I was about 13. Perhaps these are just defective humans / bad genes. These kids were destined to kill themselves in some easily avoid accident and go in the runnings for the darwin awards, making the human race better by ridding themselves from it!
5. Crap point but none the less. You get put in Jail in GTA3 if you shoot people, highlighting that it is bad and against the law to kill people / shoot at cars. They played the game long enough for it to influence them right? How come they didn't see this?
Why are criminals no longer resonsible for there actions? Perhaps familys and schools are not teaching "responsibilty for your own actions" well enough. Why are they being sued?
This lawyer is obviously right on the money, because there is plenty of statistical data to back him up. Just do a quick Google search for the sales figures for Grand Theft Auto 3. So far two people have acted violently and blamed GTA and, lo and behold, how many people have bought the game? Two. Obviously, the game automatically makes anyone that plays it extremely violent, because EVERYONE that has played it has become violent.
I just hope that this media publicity doesn't propel Grand Theft Auto series from the bottom of the charts up to, say... the number one game in America each month for over a year. If Mr. Thompson's theory stayed true, then the entire country would collapse into chaos!
The boys told investigators they got the rifles from a locked room in their home and decided to randomly shoot at tractor-trailer rigs, just like in the video game "Grand Theft Auto III."
Liars. There are NO tractor-trailer rigs in GTA3.
Rather than sue the companies, they should encourage the companies to educate people on proper parenting, and help sponsor day cares around the world.
It would cost the same, and actualy work towards fixing the problem, it's a win-win situation.
....whatever happened to just "crazy"? Those kids are crazy. Forget TV, music, games etc.
I saw a documentary on the history channel. To cut a long story short, I invaded Poland.